Personally, I feel like Blastoise is better utilized for punching holes in the opposing teams rather than sweeping. While taking advantage of Blastoise's bulk is a cool idea, I don't think one should be aiming to sweep with him. His Speed is much too low to attempt such a feat, and even in his Mega Evolution, he's better off serving as something that will come in and check Pokes like Slash and Gengar.
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Pokémon Blastoise
- Thread starter Bribery
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I don't see the point of timid + Aqua Jet. Even with Weakness Policy, and Ice Beam is definitely the best out of those slashed moves if no Mega Launcher, and ... why give 252 Spe to Blastiose? Especially with Weakness policy, you'd want it 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def with like Bold and not timid.
Best sets I've used on Mega Blastiose:
Blastiose @ Blastiosinite or whatever
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Bold Nature
~Rapid Spin
~Scald
~Dark Pulse
~Aura Sphere / Ice Beam
Blastiose @ Blastiosinite or whatever
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / SpD
Modest Nature
~Water Pulse / Hydro Pump
~Dark Pulse
~Aura Sphere
~Dragon Pulse / Ice Beam / Rapid Spin
Best sets I've used on Mega Blastiose:
Blastiose @ Blastiosinite or whatever
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Bold Nature
~Rapid Spin
~Scald
~Dark Pulse
~Aura Sphere / Ice Beam
Blastiose @ Blastiosinite or whatever
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / SpD
Modest Nature
~Water Pulse / Hydro Pump
~Dark Pulse
~Aura Sphere
~Dragon Pulse / Ice Beam / Rapid Spin
My reason for doing so was because to outrun Pokemon with slower spd and fire off a + 2 SAtk STAB Hydro Pump / +2 SAtk Ice Beam / +2 SAtk Darkpulse with ease. Pokemon that are faster then Blastiose even after those EV investment, i can still punch a hole using a +2 Atk Aqua Jet and deal some damage.
I would agree with you.... that is why i came up with this build and i believe it still does his job < = to a Mega Blastiose correct me if i'm wrong
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I've used Roserade with Blastoise and it works alright as a spike/spin pair. It also forms 2/3 of a FWG core if you're into that sort of thing.
I'm really getting tired of this argument. First of all, nobody says you HAVE to use Mega Evolutions. Second of all, you could say this about ANY Pokémon taking up any of the 6 team slots; it's just that you can only have one MEvo. Less than half of the Megas in existence are even competitively viable in the first place (that aren't blatantly broken like Blaziken and McGar), so there isn't that much competition for the spot in the first place.
Also, you can't just slap a MEvo onto your team and call it a day. Each one needs team support to some extent if it's sweeping (Lucario, Pinsir, Mawile, Charizard, Garchomp), or it's there to support the team in some way (Blastoise, McGar, Banette, Venusaur). Each Mega has different roles it can play, and you're usually building your team around it if you're going to use it, not the other way around. You're not going to put a Lucario on a Stall team, now are you?
So can someone explain something to me? I'm still kind of a noob when it comes to competitive battling, also this is my first post on this site. Here's my question, if I want a bulky Blastoise, why is it better to invest EVs in HP instead of either D or Sp. D? I don't understand the benefits of the HP stat for Blastoise. It seems to me like you would encounter the Blissey issue where Blissey has a massive base HP stat, but can't take any physical hits, and could take special hits the same regardless of the hp stat. Also, Blastoise doesn't have a very good base stat in hp. So can someone explain to me why I should invest EVs in hp instead of either of Blastoises defenses?
HP means you invest in both sides, in theory anyway. The idea is that since you take a certain amount of damage, more HP is more bulk on both sides overall.
Aura Sphere does the same damage to Ferrothron due to Mega Launcher (120 x 2 = 60 x 4 = 240), and Scizor can't really do anything to you other than U-Turn anyway.
With Aura Sphere, Dark Pulse, Dragon Pulse all seemingly so good. Together with Rapid Spin and also a Water STAB...
I'm having difficulty choosing my move set. Rapid Spin/Dark Pulse seems mandatory and each of the other 3 checks so many pokemons..
Especially with Talonflame roaming around at first I thought abandoning the water STAB would be a good idea.. Aura Sphere checks Ferrethorn/TTar and Dragon pulse checks dragon types hard..
Which is actually the more popular set everyone is using? Haven't really encountered many Mega Blastoise yet
I'm having difficulty choosing my move set. Rapid Spin/Dark Pulse seems mandatory and each of the other 3 checks so many pokemons..
Especially with Talonflame roaming around at first I thought abandoning the water STAB would be a good idea.. Aura Sphere checks Ferrethorn/TTar and Dragon pulse checks dragon types hard..
Which is actually the more popular set everyone is using? Haven't really encountered many Mega Blastoise yet
This set has incredible defensive potential against some top OU threats and can score some solid 2hkos with zero investment.
Blastoise @ Assault Vest
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Nature: Sassy
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Dragon Tail
- Ice Beam
It can take almost anything and phase it out with dragon tail. Off the top of my head Gyarados would wall this set very easily though.
Edited for formatting.
Blastoise @ Assault Vest
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Nature: Sassy
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Dragon Tail
- Ice Beam
It can take almost anything and phase it out with dragon tail. Off the top of my head Gyarados would wall this set very easily though.
- 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 118-139 (32.5 - 38.3%) -- 97.7% chance to 3HKO
- 0 SpA Blastoise Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 260-308 (72.8 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 224+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 156-184 (43 - 50.8%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
- 32 SpA Mega Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Blastoise: 109-129 (30.1 - 35.6%) -- 27.9% chance to 3HKO
- 0 SpA Blastoise Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Garchomp: 236-280 (66.1 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Blastoise: 84-100 (23.2 - 27.6%) -- 72.5% chance to 4HKO
- 0 SpA Blastoise Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 96-114 (36.7 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO0 Atk Blastoise Dragon Tail vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 56-67 (21.4 - 25.6%) -- 0.8% chance to 4HKO
- If Gengar wants to get cheeky with sub disable, scald then dragon tail.
- 252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Blastoise: 97-115 (26.7 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
- 0 SpA Blastoise Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 79-94 (31.4 - 37.4%) -- 87% chance to 3HKO
- +1 252 Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 144-171 (39.7 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
- 0 SpA Blastoise Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 112-134 (34.6 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
- If multiscale is broken, 0 SpA Blastoise Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 224-268 (69.3 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- +1 252 Atk Salamence Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 145-172 (40 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
- 0 SpA Blastoise Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 272-324 (82.1 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Haxorus Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 169-201 (46.6 - 55.5%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO
- 0 SpA Blastoise Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Haxorus: 152-180 (51.8 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 0 Atk Blastoise Dragon Tail vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Haxorus: 82-98 (27.9 - 33.4%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
- 252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 150-177 (41.4 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
- 252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Blastoise: 204-241 (56.3 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- (Bulky volcarona)
- +2 0 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Blastoise: 160-190 (44.1 - 52.4%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO
- 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 211-249 (58.2 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 141-166 (38.9 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
- +2 252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 280-331 (77.3 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 0 SpA Blastoise Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 168-198 (52 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Blastoise: 102-121 (28.1 - 33.4%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
- +2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 115-136 (31.7 - 37.5%) -- 90% chance to 3HKO
- +2 252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 226-267 (62.4 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 169-201 (46.6 - 55.5%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO
Edited for formatting.
Water STAB, Rapid Spin, and Dark Pulse are musts. You need your Water STAB as Water moves have excellent neutral coverage, to check Fire-types, and Scald (the best Water move to use on Blastoise) has a handy 30% burn chance, while Dark Pulse is a must to get past spinblockers. Then, on the last slot you can use either Aura Sphere or Ice Beam. Assuming you use max SpA, Aura Sphere OHKOes Greninja, Lucario, Kyurem-B (after SR), and Mega Kangaskhan (75% of the time after SR), 2HKOes Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, and Mega Gyarados (71.2 - 83.9%). On the other hand, Ice Beam OHKOes Dragon-types such as Dragonite (after SR), Salamence, Garchomp, Zygarde, Noivern, while also 2HKOing Roserade, most Goodra, and Togekiss. In general, Aura Shpere is the best option as the Pokemon it covers are more important and threatening.
Alright thanks for the input :) guess I'll have to get one more Pokemon to check dragons then. but are these stats from the 252 SpA or the 64 SpA ones?
252 SpA and Modest.
You don't need a Water STAB per se, but as i mentioned already, Hydro Pump is the strongest move in Blastoise's arsenal (165 BP after STAB, compared to 120 BP of Dark Pulse and Aura Sphere), Water Pulse is the second strongest (135 BP) while also having a handy 20% confusion chance, and Scald has that awesome 30% burn chance. And more importantly, Water moves offer great neutral coverage alongside Dark Pulse, which is needed to get past spinblockers. So, practically, a Water STAB is a must most of the times, unless your team desperately needs both Aura Sphere and Ice Beam.
Why would ever not want to use Water STAB though? Water has such excellent neutral coverage, and Scald is a ridiculously broken move with it's good power and significant burn chance, and it only becomes even more threatening considering Mega Blastoise's excellent Special Attack. Between Scald, Dark Pulse, and Aura Sphere, the only Pokemon who can switch in on you with impunity is Azumarill (who may I remind you hates getting burnt, goddamn you Scald).
Plus, being "unexpected" is a terrible reason to justify using or not using a move. It's "expected" that Terrakion is going to have Close Combat, but that doesn't mean alternative moves are more viable. It just means it's really good.
edit: greninjask'd
Perhaps I should have been more clear. It's unexpected in that Blastoise gets one more piece of coverage which allows it to get past fairies- wait, my bad, Blastoise does not get Poison moves like Clawziter does.
Alright, there's less utility than I thought, but still- not without merit. It allows you to bypass moveset reads.
Example:
If you see Aura Sphere, you assume the general offensive set. If you also see rapid spin, you "know" it's dark pulse, aura sphere, and Water pulse/water move.... which leaves you open to get screwed later by Ice beam.
I suppose this is only needed/applicable if you have a dragon/breloom problem. It's a little bit better with Clawziter because it allows you to actually kill the Azumarill/Togekiss read.
Of course, you can do this with any pokemon, but it's significantly more viable to not use the STAB when the pokemon has mega launcher, raising dark pulse to just 15BP below water pulse. Of course, it doesn't compare to Hydro Pump, but not wanting to run that is understandable.
Alright, there's less utility than I thought, but still- not without merit. It allows you to bypass moveset reads.
Example:
If you see Aura Sphere, you assume the general offensive set. If you also see rapid spin, you "know" it's dark pulse, aura sphere, and Water pulse/water move.... which leaves you open to get screwed later by Ice beam.
I suppose this is only needed/applicable if you have a dragon/breloom problem. It's a little bit better with Clawziter because it allows you to actually kill the Azumarill/Togekiss read.
Of course, you can do this with any pokemon, but it's significantly more viable to not use the STAB when the pokemon has mega launcher, raising dark pulse to just 15BP below water pulse. Of course, it doesn't compare to Hydro Pump, but not wanting to run that is understandable.
Its so great the M-toise can nuke every spinblocker with a massively powerful dark pulse. Its just downright awesome. Trevenant, which i most commonly see in XY OU as a spinblocker and switch in to blastoise gets decimated. It can punch holes in pretty much any team and is easily the most powerful rapid spinner, in terms of raw damage output and coverage.
Damn, I was hoping that my Assault Vest Set would remain a secret, or at least underused, lol. The only difference is that I chose to run Dark Pulse over Ice Beam to help deal with Spin Blockers.
The latter. More hit points in addition to a higher defense will always result in more hit taking capabilities on that side.
So if I were to run a Blastoise with 252 HP evs, then split the remaining ev's between Def. and Sp.Def and use him as a mega, would that be a viable option in OU? Or would the lack of special attack be too much for him to overcome?
In ou, you'd want to run max hp and satk, I believe, for the best effectiveness, unless you custom tailor ev's to ko stuff or avoid/deal specific ko's.
Does anyone else run aqua jet on this dude? It's saved me countless times picking off things I barely miss the KO on, Water Pulse / Aura Sphere / Dark Pulse gets solid coverage together, and then aqua jet nabs that last 15% I need.
Roughly speaking, and this is very rough: Since Blastoise has a lower HP stat than Def and SDef, each point invested in HP increases bulk by a greater percentage. Taking a super extreme example, going from 1 HP to 2 HP doubles your bulk, but going from 100 Def to 101 Def is only a 1% increase in Defense. This actually goes along with your Blissey logic, where investing in Blissey's HP does not increase its bulk by that much on a percentage basis
Also HP increases bulk on both sides, as mentioned previously. Let's say the alternative to investing HP is to invest both Def and SDef. This means that the investment in Def has to be twice as good as the investment in HP. In otherwords, 4Def/4SDef investment has to outperform 8HP.
Is Dragon Pulse even necessary on M-Blastoise? I'm using Pokegen to generate mine at level 100, and don't really want to transfer it and then have to breed just for Dragon Pulse... I'm thinking about just running Ice Beam since not only does it deal with dragons, it also deals with grass types as well.
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