Blaziken [4F]'+

[Erazor]

Alright, will do.

@HeYsUp - the names of the lure-exploders are very much there, I didn't remove them!

I also want calcs of 236 Atk vs 72 Atk.
@CIM, I guess that Fire Punch is the most reliable option for reversal. I'll leave Blaze kick slashed in though.

@SDS- will remove Omastar

@generally - will add agility mix and more details about 236 Atk(it IS mentioned in EVs, btw), and slightly rewrite the comments about weather.

What speed should I put on the agility set, i.e, what do we want to outspeed at +2?

Once I get this stuff, I will edit it all into the analysis.


Thanks a lot everyone.

 

[Shizzle]

I dont want to make any mistakes, but wouldn't it be useful to have damage calculations for Fire Blast onto Registeel, and maybe for some cases of other pokemon, a Blaze boosted Fire Blast?

EDIT (here are some of the faster things which you may want to outspeed, based on a neautral speed nature)
Speed EVs required to outspeed pokemon, after +2:
136 EVs Outspeed Scarf Timid 252 SpeRoserade
120 EVs Outspeed Scarfed Jolly 252 SpeHitmonlee
4 EVs Outspeed +Spe 252 Spe Crobat (Base 130s)

 

[Erazor]

vGX - a normal LO Fire Blast from max sp.atk Mild Blaziken does 77 - 91% to the standard 252 HP/ 156 SpDef Careful Registeel. With Blaze, however, it's a clean OHKO on every single Registeel variant.

Outspeeding Roserade seems to be a nice benchmark, but that requires a hefty amount of Speed, and we need as much attack as possible(236 Atk Ideally, we just want to see what 20 Spe EVs don't achieve).

 

[Legacy Raider]

Do we really need Reversal? I don't think anyone's actually tried it (otherwise Swords Dance would NOT be the last move and Blaze Kick would not be your Fire move lol). The set comments are not well written and the set is clearly not fully thought out.

Yeah uh why are you using Blaze Kick? It misses. Make a case for me using a move that misses.

Yeah, I used the Reversal set, it's pretty cool and I'd like to advocate keeping it in. Blaziken is the only Pokemon in UU that has Swords Dance and STAB on Reversal (Lucario and Heracross are the other two), and when you factor in Blaze as well, I don't see why you wouldn't add it.

About Blaze Kick:

+2 Blaze Fire Punch vs 252/252+ Spiritomb: 77.9 - 92.1%
+2 Blaze Blaze Kick vs 252/252+ Spiritomb: 88.1 - 103.9%

Spiritomb is a very common Pokemon on UU stall teams, and will take Blaziken out with Shadow Ball unless Blaziken OHKOes it back first. I learned this from experience when using Fire Punch, which is why I began running Blaze Kick. 90% accuracy isn't terrible. Here are some other instances in which Blaze Kick is helpful:

+2 Blaze Fire Punch vs 252/176+ Weezing: 70.1 - 82.6%
+2 Blaze Blaze Kick vs 252/176+ Weezing: 79.1 - 93.4%

+2 Blaze Fire Punch vs 252/220+ Mesprit: 67.9 - 80.2%
+2 Blaze Blaze Kick vs 252/220+ Mesprit: 76.9 - 90.9%

+2 Blaze Fire Punch vs 252/216+ Nidoqueen: 73.4 - 86.7%
+2 Blaze Blaze Kick vs 252/216+ Nidoqueen: 83.6 - 98.4%

When you're all set up with Blaziken, you will be using your 200 power Reversal in almost all circumstances, and will only ever revert to your Fire move when up against these kinds of Fighting resists. Fire Punch falls unfortunately short for many of them, which is why I'd run Blaze Kick again if I still ran it. Have Blaze Kick as a primary option, but Fire Punch should be slashed in for reliability purposes imo. I agree that the set needs rewriting though.


My suggestion for the Agility set is:

name: Mixed Agility Sweeper
move 1: Agility
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Superpower / Sky Uppercut
move 4: Hidden Power Electric / Hidden Power Grass
item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
nature: Rash
evs: 196 Atk / 252 SpA / 60 Spe


60 Speed EVs put your Speed at 211, meaning after an Agility, you hit 422 and outspeed:

+1 252 Rotom, at 421.
+1 252 Roserade and Moltres, at 419.
252+ Electrode, at 418.
+1 252+ Smeargle and +1 252 Hitmonlee, at 409.
+1 252 Pinsir, at 403.
+1 252 Magmortar, at 397.
252+ Crobat at 394.


I'll hopefully have the Milotic revamp up by this weekend, and after its standard sets etc have been discussed, some of Blaziken's wallbreaking sets might be affected slightly, I don't know.


EDIT: Disregard the Sky Uppercut slashin, thanks, I took its base power to be higher than it actually is.

 

[Heysup]

NO MY SPREAD IS THE ONLY GOOD ONE KAY?! (jokes)

I actually like that EV spread, it maintains many of the KOes that the 236 Atk had, and gives us a nice speed base.

However as I have explained, Superpower > Sky Uppercut in basically every way.

Firstly, as I said before. Superpower is needed to beat Milotic which we will now Outspeed almost ALL of the time thanks to your new spread (although I think the spread should "just" outspeed Milotic, but I wont win that argument with so much opposition no matter how many calcs I post :P).

So here is the comparison: SP vs SU
After 1 use: 120 vs 85. obviously superpower is better
After 2 uses: 210 vs 170. again superpower is better
After 3 uses: 270 vs 255. superpower is still better after THREE uses, which is almost to rare to matter.
After 4 uses: 300 vs 340. So if all of your opponents remaining Pokemon are all weak to fighting, and cannot survive a LO Sky Uppercut (which many things can survive easily) then maybe Sky Uppercut is better.

Is it worth the very steep power drop for a less reliable, less accurate move just because its better after 3 uses?

I for one don't even think it should be mentioned at all. Sky Uppercut should stay in OO.

Can I ask why you think we should keep it on the set LR because you didnt explain it there >.>

@ Erazor:


I think its a good idea to look at both sides of an argument before agreeing to add stuff in, for example like the Omastar thing and the Fire Punch thing. As LR Explained Blaze Kick > Fire Punch, and as I have explained, Omastar should remain in. With calculations and reasoning behind both of those reasons, its pretty evident that the sets should probably remain the same (though Fire Punch can be added as a slash). However, ill elaborate on Omastar, as SDS has made the argument that "OHKOing doesnt matter". I mean, it obviously does, but here is the point in a nutshell.

The thing with Omastar, is that running 236 Attack allows you to OHKO with Superpower, allowing you to avoid being revenge killed by it, OR to force it out with Superpower which is the superior move to be spamming on a stall team (as I explained before). This also means that you can "Effectively" run HP Electric on that set, because if you use 72 Atk and HP Electric you are walled by Gastrodon, Quagsire, Omastar and the like. The advantages of running HP electric are also a big deal, because you can deal with Moltres AND you don't give Crobat a free switch-in like it gets with HP Grass.

So what im saying, is that the bit about omastar should say stuff like

"Omastar is now OHKOed by Superpower with Stealth Rock in play, allowing you to effectively run HP Electric, which is important to allow you to hit Moltres and not give Crobat a chance for a free switch-in. Not OHKOing Omastar means that it can come in and stop you in your tracks."

Because if you KO something, and the whole idea of the new spread being "not being revenge killed" is important, so it also works in this spreads favor by not being revenge killed by certain Pokemon (such as Omastar).

And what calcs do you want exactly? There are a shit-ton in the other thread, but if you want more I will gladly do them. Just name the Pokemon (or catagory of Pokemon).


All in all:

Keep Omastar in as I stated, but mention it like I showed you as well.

I like LRs EV spread, but we should seriously wait for Milotic to come up because that could seriously change a shit ton of things (such as the viability of running lower Speed, not that I still plan on insisting it should be the main spread) and the viability of running higher Attack (if it has SpD EVs, we may NEED to sacrifice some Speed or even Special Attack for some attack power). For now 196 Atk / 252 SpA / 60 Spe works.

Superpower needs to remain the only option for a fighting STAB, Sky Uppercut's lack of power and accuracy makes me wonder why it should even be mentioned >.>.

So waiting for milotic before finalizing stuff is a good plan.

@ Eo Ut Mortus:

Good point. I usually go for 201 Speed when im in that tier, to outspeed Pokemon aiming for 200. Either way.

Running 64 EVs isn't a bad call, but I think the more we invest, the more its going to turn into a situation like: "well if we are already here, we might as well add more EVs to outspeed this" and soon enough we are going to make a really bad set. As long as we stop at 64 I don't have a problem. I still like 20 EVs persoanlly, but 64 is definitely a good number that I understand too.

 

[Eo Ut Mortus]

On Legacy Raider's spread, is there any reason not to run 64 EVs and outspeed max Spe Adamant Torterra (pre-Agility)? Also if the 20 Speed Blaziken remains on the analysis, I would like to point out that only 16 EVs are needed to outspeed 4 Speed Milotic.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Your calcs are wrong. A -1 drop is .66 power, not .75 like you state. It scales like this:

-0: 120
-1: 80
-2: 60
-3: 48

That said, Superpower isn't a sweeping move, just a coverage move, so the drop in attack is actually quite negligible.

 

[Heysup]

Oh. I guess I just thought because +2 = x2, and +1 = x1.5 (iirc) that it worked the opposite way.

Either way, its still stronger after two uses. A coverage move shouldnt really be used more than that. Especially since Superpower also helps Blaziken break walls.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

NO MY SPREAD IS THE ONLY GOOD ONE KAY?! (jokes)

(although I think the spread should "just" outspeed Milotic, but I wont win that argument with so much opposition no matter how many calcs I post :P).

Ok, stupid comments like this are the exact reason why you are no longer in charge of this analysis. Cut the remarks out, for your own sake. I've been far more generous with you than I would be with someone else because you actually have things to contribute, but you are really pushing the envelope. You shouldn't reply to this paragraph, this is just a warning.

However as I have explained, Superpower > Sky Uppercut in basically every way.

Ignoring the part where your Superpower reduction calc is wrong, I agree...but that doesn't mean Sky Uppercut is a terrible option. Lowering your Defense just makes you more prone to being revenged by Ambipom/Arcanine/Honchkrow etc. I agree that Superpower should be the main option after having used the set, but Sky Uppercut is worthwhile.

Damn Ive been using Blaziken way too much lately.

Running 64 EVs isn't a bad call, but I think the more we invest, the more its going to turn into a situation like: "well if we are already here, we might as well add more EVs to outspeed this" and soon enough we are going to make a really bad set. As long as we stop at 64 I don't have a problem. I still like 20 EVs persoanlly, but 64 is definitely a good number that I understand too.

Running any Speed EVs is better than running nothing. 64 sounds perfect, IMO. Thanks EUM. 20 EVs is completely random for the Agility set, 64 actually has a purpose and you aren't losing anything because of it. I personally just used an 8 EV set and I was golden after an Agility (choice scarf isnt common in uu), but Torterra seems like a great option to outspeed...since you can play Agility/Fire Blast prediction games from that point

I like how this is turning out. I'll post grammatical edits later to help the process along even further.

 

[franky]

Yeah, I used the Reversal set, it's pretty cool and I'd like to advocate keeping it in. Blaziken is the only Pokemon in UU that has Swords Dance and STAB on Reversal (Lucario and Heracross are the other two), and when you factor in Blaze as well, I don't see why you wouldn't add it.

About Blaze Kick:

+2 Blaze Fire Punch vs 252/252+ Spiritomb: 77.9 - 92.1%
+2 Blaze Blaze Kick vs 252/252+ Spiritomb: 88.1 - 103.9%

Spiritomb is a very common Pokemon on UU stall teams, and will take Blaziken out with Shadow Ball unless Blaziken OHKOes it back first. I learned this from experience when using Fire Punch, which is why I began running Blaze Kick. 90% accuracy isn't terrible. Here are some other instances in which Blaze Kick is helpful:

+2 Blaze Fire Punch vs 252/176+ Weezing: 70.1 - 82.6%
+2 Blaze Blaze Kick vs 252/176+ Weezing: 79.1 - 93.4%

+2 Blaze Fire Punch vs 252/220+ Mesprit: 67.9 - 80.2%
+2 Blaze Blaze Kick vs 252/220+ Mesprit: 76.9 - 90.9%

+2 Blaze Fire Punch vs 252/216+ Nidoqueen: 73.4 - 86.7%
+2 Blaze Blaze Kick vs 252/216+ Nidoqueen: 83.6 - 98.4%

When you're all set up with Blaziken, you will be using your 200 power Reversal in almost all circumstances, and will only ever revert to your Fire move when up against these kinds of Fighting resists. Fire Punch falls unfortunately short for many of them, which is why I'd run Blaze Kick again if I still ran it. Have Blaze Kick as a primary option, but Fire Punch should be slashed in for reliability purposes imo. I agree that the set needs rewriting though.


My suggestion for the Agility set is:

name: Mixed Agility Sweeper
move 1: Agility
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Superpower / Sky Uppercut
move 4: Hidden Power Electric / Hidden Power Grass
item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
nature: Rash
evs: 196 Atk / 252 SpA / 60 Spe


60 Speed EVs put your Speed at 211, meaning after an Agility, you hit 422 and outspeed:

+1 252 Rotom, at 421.
+1 252 Roserade and Moltres, at 419.
252+ Electrode, at 418.
+1 252+ Smeargle and +1 252 Hitmonlee, at 409.
+1 252 Pinsir, at 403.
+1 252 Magmortar, at 397.
252+ Crobat at 394.


I'll hopefully have the Milotic revamp up by this weekend, and after its standard sets etc have been discussed, some of Blaziken's wallbreaking sets might be affected slightly, I don't know.


EDIT: Disregard the Sky Uppercut slashin, thanks, I took its base power to be higher than it actually is.

Calculations are very promising. The Blaze Kick is probably recommended with Stealth Rock for the mandatory OHKO on some of those pokemon your hitting.

 

[Erazor]

This is all going to take a little time to edit in, so please bear with me. It'll be done in a few hours, but right now, I'm occupied.

That said, I really like 64 Speed on the Agility sweeper.

@Heysup(get a name change, please! Those caps are annoying), I haven't yet added Fire Punch, don't worry, and I was going to leave Blaze Kick slashed anyway. It's still the best option, as LR has pointed out.

Omastar .. I'll keep it in.

Thanks a lot everyone!

 

[Heysup]

Ok, stupid comments like this are the exact reason why you are no longer in charge of this analysis. Cut the remarks out, for your own sake. I've been far more generous with you than I would be with someone else because you actually have things to contribute, but you are really pushing the envelope. You shouldn't reply to this paragraph, this is just a warning.

Ignoring the part where your Superpower reduction calc is wrong, I agree...but that doesn't mean Sky Uppercut is a terrible option. Lowering your Defense just makes you more prone to being revenged by Ambipom/Arcanine/Honchkrow etc. I agree that Superpower should be the main option after having used the set, but Sky Uppercut is worthwhile.

Damn Ive been using Blaziken way too much lately.

Running any Speed EVs is better than running nothing. 64 sounds perfect, IMO. Thanks EUM. 20 EVs is completely random for the Agility set, 64 actually has a purpose and you aren't losing anything because of it. I personally just used an 8 EV set and I was golden after an Agility (choice scarf isnt common in uu), but Torterra seems like a great option to outspeed...since you can play Agility/Fire Blast prediction games from that point

I like how this is turning out. I'll post grammatical edits later to help the process along even further.

@ Bolded: No such thing!

Sorry about those comments everyone, they were meant to be funny (I thought they were at least, lol). It was too soon I guess, my bad.

Anyway, yea I forgot that -1 is different than +1. I don't think that Sky Uppercut should be an option, and as the only one who still thinks that its an option, can you explain why (unless the sole reason is that you lower your defenses)? I don't think its been explained by anyone in this thread yet >.>

Though, I do just want to address something, but I dont want this to start anything, but I would appreciate if you stop saying the 20 Speed EVs outspeeds "nothing" and is "random", because it outspeeds Milotic pre-Agility, and many choice scarfers (Honchkrow, Blaziken, Magmortar, Typhlosion, etc.). I know the 192 Atk / 252 SpA / 64 Spe is the one we are (and should be) using, but dismissing my opinion as "random" and "nothing" isnt exactly...fair I guess.

I have a quick question: Are we just improving my (now Erazor's) old write up of the Agility set, or using my new one? Cause if we are using the old one I still think we should make a "slight" mention of the KOes alotted to this spread, because they likely won't be explained in the MPA's paragraph (236>192, there may be a few missing KOes (like, it has a less chance to OHKO Registeel but there may be some others)).

This is assuming the 236 EV spread is going to be mentioned in the MPA's Set Comments, which is what our plan was right? Or was it just supposed to go in the EVs section? Either way, I think it deserves a nice paragraph or two in the Set Comments explaining the KOes achieved. In the EV section I think it should just explain the two EV Spreads very basically (one is more effective in common battle conditions, and one is more effective for stall, and 20 Spe EVs outspeeds milotic while 184 outspeeds Honchkrow).

This is all going to take a little time to edit in, so please bear with me. It'll be done in a few hours, but right now, I'm occupied.

That said, I really like 64 Speed on the Agility sweeper.

@Heysup(get a name change, please! Those caps are annoying), I haven't yet added Fire Punch, don't worry, and I was going to leave Blaze Kick slashed anyway. It's still the best option, as LR has pointed out.

Omastar .. I'll keep it in.

Thanks a lot everyone!

Lol. You dont need to actually write "HeYsUp" every time. You can just write "Hey", or "Sup", or HYU and i'll know who you are talking about.

And yea, I just meant for your sake that people suggest things often, and they are often proven wrong or something along those lines, so adding it just to remove it is pretty annoying :P.

And thanks for listening to the Omastar bit :). Don't rush to change everything if you're busy either, because I have a feeling that something will change once Milotic is posted, however major or minor it may be.


EDIT: I just noticed the EV section, I think it needs to be reworked a bit, and it also needs to mention the 72 Atk Spread, and what 184 EVs outspeeds.

 

[Eo Ut Mortus]

The reason people, or at least I, think 20 EVs is random is because you don't need it to outspeed Milotic. 12 EVs nets Blaziken 199 Speed, outspeeding 0 Speed Milotic. Thusly, 16 EVs outspeeds 4 Speed Milotic, which is applicable if it is running a 252 / 252 / 4 spread. I'm unaware of Milotic commonly running 8 speed, though, so I don't see any particular reason for the extra point in speed.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Outspeeding Milotic pre-agility is not really all that important, considering you're not going to be setting up on it, in which case you have no business hanging out.

Anyway, why is it so important that the 236 Attack spread get mentioned in Set Comments? The 72 Atk spread is more practical, and there's room in the EVs section to stick the alternate spread.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Anyway, yea I forgot that -1 is different than +1. I don't think that Sky Uppercut should be an option, and as the only one who still thinks that its an option, can you explain why (unless the sole reason is that you lower your defenses)? I don't think its been explained by anyone in this thread yet >.>

Yeah, basically. I suggested Sky Uppercut because I really hated the Defense drop cause by Superpower when I used the set. The accuracy is a huge pain in the ass, but not being revenged as easy by Sucker Punch and stupid crap like Fake Out is a huge plus. I just want it to be mentioned, at least.

I have a quick question: Are we just improving my (now Erazor's) old write up of the Agility set, or using my new one? Cause if we are using the old one I still think we should make a "slight" mention of the KOes alotted to this spread, because they likely won't be explained in the MPA's paragraph (236>192, there may be a few missing KOes (like, it has a less chance to OHKO Registeel but there may be some others)).

I don't care, whatever the OP wants to do. We got the EV spreads and movesets sorted, the prose is up to him at this point.

This is assuming the 236 EV spread is going to be mentioned in the MPA's Set Comments, which is what our plan was right? Or was it just supposed to go in the EVs section? Either way, I think it deserves a nice paragraph or two in the Set Comments explaining the KOes achieved. In the EV section I think it should just explain the two EV Spreads very basically (one is more effective in common battle conditions, and one is more effective for stall, and 20 Spe EVs outspeeds milotic while 184 outspeeds Honchkrow).

Yeah, a more physical-oriented but slower MPA EV spread will be mentioned in the EVs section. It can just go at the end of the part explaining the EVs in the current section, like "if you are not as concerned with speed, or if you want to ensure clean OHKOs on walls like Registeel <etc>, use <236 atk oriented spread>. " or something

Outspeeding Milotic pre-agility is not really all that important, considering you're not going to be setting up on it, in which case you have no business hanging out.

This doesnt matter because I thought we already picked 64 EVs for the Agility set?

The point is that Blaziken can be its own lure. Come in on something you threaten, kill Milotic, then next time you come in, Agility and sweep. And even with 236 Atk EVs, there is still a chance of Milotic living through Superpower, SR and HP Grass if it is 252hp/252def+ with Leftovers...so we might as well just invest that tiny bit in the very worthwhile Speed stat.

335 Atk vs 282 Def & 394 HP (120 Base Power): 199 - 235 (50.51% - 59.64%) (SP vs Milotic with 236 Atk EV spread)
350 Atk vs 286 Def & 394 HP (70 Base Power): 158 - 188 (40.10% - 47.72%) (HP Grass vs Milotic with 252 SpAtk)

50.51 + 12.5 - 6.25 + 40.10 = 96.86%, which means you have to roll high damage with HP Grass in order to actually beat it with the slower Blaziken.

Anyway, why is it so important that the 236 Attack spread get mentioned in Set Comments? The 72 Atk spread is more practical, and there's room in the EVs section to stick the alternate spread.

This has been sorted out already, the 236 Atk EV spread is going in the EVs section. The 72 Atk spread is going in the set. The Agility set has 64 Speed EVs, max SpAtk and rest in Atk

 

[Heysup]

Outspeeding Milotic pre-agility is not really all that important, considering you're not going to be setting up on it, in which case you have no business hanging out.

Anyway, why is it so important that the 236 Attack spread get mentioned in Set Comments? The 72 Atk spread is more practical, and there's room in the EVs section to stick the alternate spread.

How do you plan on sweeping if you cant get Milotic out of the way first? GL trying to sweep with Milotic coming in. 16 Spe works though.

Anyway, it depends what you mean by important. I FEEL that since the spread is the most commonly used one, and has its perks, it should be listed in the Set Comments (as 240 Atk / 252 SpA / 16 Spe). I was told that the paragraph would be very "Detailed", because it wasn't bad by any means. I think that a paragraph in the EV section like that is a bit out of place because its set specific. EV Sections usually have stuff like "184 Speed outspeeds Honchkrow and other various threats, however if you wish to pump up your attack to beat more common walls, the lowest Blaziken's speed should be is 16." Well at least something like that. It looks better if the detailed paragraph goes in set comments.

And yea EUM is right about the spread, it should be 240 Atk / 252 SpA / 16 Spe, it doesn't make much a difference too be honest, but as I said before thats what should be put into the analysis.

Erazor make sure you see this: the "236 Atk spread" should be like this: 240 Atk / 252 SpA / 16 Spe.

Edit: didnt see Gay Dolphin's post.

I guess the EV section is ok, just take what I said to SDS into acount. Mainly consistancy, appearance, and relevance (like explaining in that much detail the differences between two spreads for one set) are the main concerns.

And I just thought I should point out that the Hidden Power section should mention the preffered HP for each set and why if the 240 atk spread is staying in EVs. This way it will help people pick the HP depending on if they need to OHKO stuff like omastar or not, because the 240 Atk gives Superpower enough power to OHKO omastar, while if the 72 Atk Blaziken uses HP Electric its basically stopped by Omastar. I think that should just be added in quickly, because the differences in the sets aren't "just" the EVs, there is that little bit too.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

How do you plan on sweeping if you cant get Milotic out of the way first? GL trying to sweep with Milotic coming in. 16 Spe works though.

As I just posted up there^ even 236 Atk EVs has a decent chance of not beating the most defensive of Milotics, so it's not worthwhile specifically for Milotic...more like Regirock/Registeel and Milotic "most of the time". It doesn't have enough specific, clean OHKOs to warrant being mentioned in the set, but the EVs section sounds like the perfect home for it. Omastar is another thing, which I will respond to after:

And I just thought I should point out that the Hidden Power section should mention the preffered HP for each set and why if the 240 atk spread is staying in EVs. This way it will help people pick the HP depending on if they need to OHKO stuff like omastar or not, because the 240 Atk gives Superpower enough power to OHKO omastar, while if the 72 Atk Blaziken uses HP Electric its basically stopped by Omastar. I think that should just be added in quickly, because the differences in the sets aren't "just" the EVs, there is that little bit too.

Oh, I forgot about the HP section. Blaziken is one of the rare pokemon that actually has one, it slipped my mind. Yeah if you use HP Electric, then more Atk would certainly be appealing. So a higher Atk EV spread will be mentioned in the EVs section and the HP section.

 

[Erazor]

Guys, I've ALREADY mentioned 236(now 240) Atk in the EVs.

I'll just wait for the Milotic analysis to finish, then I'll edit in everything. Also, I will rewrite the agility comments, if that's OK.

 

[Heysup]

As I just posted up there^ even 236 Atk EVs has a decent chance of not beating the most defensive of Milotics, so it's not worthwhile specifically for Milotic...more like Regirock/Registeel and Milotic "most of the time". It doesn't have enough specific, clean OHKOs to warrant being mentioned in the set, but the EVs section sounds like the perfect home for it. Omastar is another thing, which I will respond to after:

Well yea, all of the stuff is basically "most of the time" (its usually well over half, though). Milotic is very hard to "Standardize" as we have come to find out (which is why im all for waiting untill LR Posts his analysis to make anymore arguments pertaining to EV spreads (in general)). The only thing I saw really, is that 71% of Milotics run 0 Speed. And its hard to pinpoint where the other EVs fall. They are obviously split between defensive stats, but apparently, even though max HP is the most common HP investment, and max / High Def is the most common Def investment, its too hard to actually pinpoint the standard set as we have been trying to do. I'd just safely say that the 240 Atk Blaziken can beat "even the most defensive milotic most of the time", while in reality it always beats any Milotic in the variety that doesnt use Max HP and Max Defense at the same time. So I think Milotic should still specifically be mentioned, because it still has a very impressive chance of KOing the most defensive Milotic (which isnt the "most common" spread, as you yourself have said), so almost always 2HKOing 71% of them (that use min speeD) is definitely a plus.

Guys, I've ALREADY mentioned 236(now 240) Atk in the EVs.

I'll just wait for the Milotic analysis to finish, then I'll edit in everything. Also, I will rewrite the agility comments, if that's OK.

Yea, I was just questioning whether it should be in the actual Set Comments instead of the EVs, because too be honest the paragraph looks a little wierd there. However you still need to mention the differences between the sets in the HP section as well. Basically here is how it should be (IMO of course):

In the EV section:
-Mixed set can use 240 atk / 252 spa / 16 spe alternatively, the 16 Spe is to outspeed Milotic
-this spread beats common walls such as regirock, milotic and Registeel more easily
-gives superpower a big power boost allowing it to KO many more Pokemon with superpower (such as Azumarill and Arcanine), making it a more reliable attack.
-The 72 atk spread is often more effective for common battles due to outspeeding many threats, so unless you want something dedicated to breaking walls, the Speed is usually a more worthwhile investment

That spread should also be explained on its own, in a seperate paragraph probably.

In the HP section:
-HP for the mixed set depends on the spread as well
-With Higher attack, Blaziken can OHKO or beat Pokemon such as Omastar without relying on HP grass
-HP electric has various advantages when the 4x grass weaks are out of the pciture, such as beating Moltres, and not giving Crobat a chance to switch in.
-The 72 Atk spread needs the HP Grass to KO omastar, otherwise it is beat.
(-the extra speed helps with other Pokemon though**)


I realize it seems like a bit if a bias in the HP section, but there is no actual "benefit" of using HP grass unless its needed for the 4x weak Pokemon. The HP section also does not really reflect the speed stat well. I'm sure you can figure out how to word it well though, so we'll see. The only issue is the benefits of using the 72 Atk set (speed) are not evident in this particular area of the analysis.

**Maybe add the last bit so it doesnt sound so "pro 240 atk set", because that is honestly not what im trying to do right now >.>

These are just suggestions obviously.

 

[Erazor]

I have edited in some of the changes - the agility sweeper's set comments have been revamped completely, except the team options part. Also, I made sure i saw that the "old" spread was changed to 240 Atk/ 16 Speed.

Let's wait for Milotic to be done.

 

[Heysup]

Nice Job with the rewrite, however there are a few inconsistancies and incorrect imformation:

<p>Naturally, Blaziken lures out its counters, but what is remarkable about Blaziken is that it can actually beat its counters before setting up its sweep. The EVs reflect this, giving you enough Attack to 2HKO Pokemon such as Milotic most of the time with Hidden Power (Fire Blast + Superpower doesn't cut it, so I put Hidden Power > Fire Blast) followed by Superpower, assuming Stealth Rock in play. Maximum Special Attack investment allows Fire Blast to outright annihilate most things that do not resist it, and 64 Speed EVs outspeeds Adamant Torterra and Choice Scarf users such as Roserade, Moltres, and Hitmonlee.</p>

Just a little bit of nitpicks and formatting, while switching Fire Blast with Hidden Power, because Fire Blast + superpower never 2HKOes. I added in some Choice Scarfers that the new spread outspeeds too.

However, I think my old TO paragraph should be changed for my new one that reflects the new spread. Because most of this stuff is inconsistant or inaccurate. Let me explain:

<p>This set works a lot like the previous set, but without priority, instead it increases its speed. Since this variant of Blaziken is a stand-alone sweeper (as in it breaks walls for itself), all it really needs to be effective are Pokemon to take the hits from its counters, such as Milotic and Hariyama. Slowbro can work well here, taking Hariyama's hits easily and being able to set up Calm Minds, or outright attack him. Shaymin and Roserade can switch into Milotic all day, and can threaten to KO with STAB Grass attacks....

The bolded stuff is outdated, as Milotic is an outdated counter. The old spread lost to it most of the time, but this new spread KOes it most of the time.

The new TO Paragraph that I wrote reflects the "new" counters (you can either just rewrite the current one, or add this, whichever you like):

</p>(your first sentance is fine). This set basically only has trouble with Pokemon like Altaria, Slowking, and Hariyama, who wall this set with their resistances and bulkiness. The best way to deal with Altaria, is to use a Pokemon such as Shaymin who can lure it in on a Seed Flare, and OHKO it with Hidden Power Ice. Frankly, any Pokemon who can lure in Altaria and hit it with an Ice-type attack is a good partner for Blaziken. Stealth Rock also helps due to Altaria taking 25% every time it switches in. Honchrow makes a perfect partner with Blaziken as well, beating Hariyama with its STAB Drill Peck, as well as trapping Slowking with its STAB Pursuit. With Agility, Blaziken is a stand-alone sweeper (as in it breaks walls for itself), so all it really needs to be effective are the Pokemon to remove its counters that were already mentioned. However, even though the Agility set functions fine without any other boosts, it can benefit greatly from Calm Mind boosts from Espeon, who can Baton Pass to Blaziken on any Bug or Dark-type attack aimed at Espeon.</p>

So, just do whatever you think is best, but make sure you fix it at least :P.

And you are going to wait for Milotic to be up before you (re-)do the EV section and the HP section?

I think thats at least a good idea for the EV section. GJ so far.

(Note: There are some spacing issues in the write ups too, stuff like "word.Word", and "X atk/Y spA/" when it should be "word. Word" and "X Atk / Y SpA" respectively, but thats not as important right now I guess, but its something to do until Milotic is up :P)

 

[Erazor]

Nice Job with the rewrite, however there are a few inconsistancies and incorrect imformation:




Just a little bit of nitpicks and formatting, while switching Fire Blast with Hidden Power, because Fire Blast + superpower never 2HKOes. I added in some Choice Scarfers that the new spread outspeeds too.

However, I think my old TO paragraph should be changed for my new one that reflects the new spread. Because most of this stuff is inconsistant or inaccurate. Let me explain:



The bolded stuff is outdated, as Milotic is an outdated counter. The old spread lost to it most of the time, but this new spread KOes it most of the time.

The new TO Paragraph that I wrote reflects the "new" counters (you can either just rewrite the current one, or add this, whichever you like):



So, just do whatever you think is best, but make sure you fix it at least :P.

And you are going to wait for Milotic to be up before you (re-)do the EV section and the HP section?

I think thats at least a good idea for the EV section. GJ so far.

(Note: There are some spacing issues in the write ups too, stuff like "word.Word", and "X atk/Y spA/" when it should be "word. Word" and "X Atk / Y SpA" respectively, but thats not as important right now I guess, but its something to do until Milotic is up :P)

Lol, how did I not notice that? I fixed it, and added your team options para.

Yes, I am waiting for Milotic to come up before I redo EVs and Hidden Power. Now I hope that LR doesn't make 252 Speed Timid the standard =)

About the typos, I'll hunt them down later.

 

[Heysup]

Lol, how did I not notice that? I fixed it, and added your team options para.

Yes, I am waiting for Milotic to come up before I redo EVs and Hidden Power. Now I hope that LR doesn't make 252 Speed Timid the standard =)

About the typos, I'll hunt them down later.

Well I guess when you were mixing and matching stuff.....lol.

And yea, waiting for Milotic is definitely the best course of action. I think LR mentioned to me that it was going to have Special Defense invested, which could change the viability of the spreads too.

Not to mention Honchkrow could be made a suspect, there is a lot that needs to be changed if so >.>

Also, ive tested the Agility set. It works quite well, I miss the Attack sometimes, but basically only vs Milotic and Registeel, who it has a less chance to KO.

 

[Erazor]

Still waiting for Milotic to come up, so sorry this hasn't been worked upon lately.

However, after a lot of playtesting, I have a suggestion that may be a bit controversial - I'm going to mention the alternate spread(240 Atk/ 16 Spe) in the set comments, as well as EVs. This is because the spread is more useful than it seems to be given credit for, and sometimes I miss the attack EVs. The cases I'm talking about is random stuff like Lanturn at 80% or something - Superpower doesn't cut it in these cases.

However, I would like the opinion of the community before I go ahead.

 

[Heysup]

Still waiting for Milotic to come up, so sorry this hasn't been worked upon lately.

However, after a lot of playtesting, I have a suggestion that may be a bit controversial - I'm going to mention the alternate spread(240 Atk/ 16 Spe) in the set comments, as well as EVs. This is because the spread is more useful than it seems to be given credit for, and sometimes I miss the attack EVs. The cases I'm talking about is random stuff like Lanturn at 80% or something - Superpower doesn't cut it in these cases.

However, I would like the opinion of the community before I go ahead.

Well, I'm waiting for the Milotic analysis to come up before any further arguments to take place, because I still think it's the better spread. However I'm just going to try to post once only and its obviously in my best intrest to not persist.