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Ubers Blaziken [QC 3/3][GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Preliminary Pokedex' started by AceSat, Feb 17, 2014.

  1. AceSat

    AceSat

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages:
    181
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    BKC: Blazin' Kickin' Chicken

    Overview
    ########
    Blaziken takes the title of being the first, and currently sole, starter to be banished to Ubers thanks to its Speed Boost ability. With Speed Boost, Blaziken can outspeed and KO many threats as well as pass boosts to teammates thanks to Baton Pass. Blaziken makes its second debut in Ubers with a new boon: a Mega Evolution. It thus continues to be a formidable threat in the Ubers metagame; with base 100 Speed when Mega-Evolved, it can come in and outspeed the common base 90 Speed Pokemon in the Ubers metagame. Blaziken can use a physical attacking set to sweep opposing teams, or, if you want a different Mega Evolution for your team, a Life Orb can be used; however, Blaziken isn't held to only utilizing an offensive set as it can also run an effective Baton Pass set. The nerf to weather this generation is a mixed bag for Blaziken. On one hand, it doesn't have ever-present sun support anymore to boost its power; on the other hand, the rain that used to cripple Blaziken doesn't last forever either, so Drought is no longer needed to counter Kyogre's rain.

    However, everything is not as perfect as it may seem for the speedy chicken. It has rather poor bulk even with the improvements of the Mega Evolution, leaving it open to being revenge killed by priority, making it rather tough to switch it in and difficult to set up. It also depends on Flare Blitz as its STAB move, which has recoil that further burdens its poor bulk. Its Mega Evolution set, which is arguably its best set, has an opportunity cost compared to other available Megas such as Mewtwo and Gengar, albeit a very small one. Nevertheless, with proper switching in and setting up, Blaziken is a formidable threat to look out for.


    Offensive
    ########
    name: Blaze is Back
    move 1: Low Kick
    move 2: Flare Blitz
    move 3: Swords Dance / Protect
    move 4: Protect / Knock Off
    ability: Speed Boost
    item: Blazikenite / Life Orb
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    nature: Adamant / Jolly


    Moves
    ========
    Low Kick is Blaziken's Fighting-type STAB dealing maximum damage against the many heavy Pokemon in the Ubers metagame; it is also not as risky as High Jump Kick. Flare Blitz is Blaziken's Fire-type STAB; when used in conjunction with Low Kick, Blaziken hits most Pokemon in Ubers for super effective or neutral damage. Swords Dance allows you to get a quick +2 Attack boost to massively increase damage output. Protect not only provides guaranteed Speed boosts, but also lets Blaziken scout your opponent's move. Knock Off is another great utility move as it allows Blaziken to deal massive damage to Pokemon that resist its STAB moves. such as the Giratina formes; it also allows you to catch your opponent on a switch. potentially taking off an otherwise useful item from their switch-in. Baton Pass can be used on this set to provide Speed boosts to other team members if Blaziken's HP is low; always make sure to use Protect with Baton Pass since it will guarantee Speed boosts. High Jump Kick can be an alternative to Low Kick, offering 10 more Base Power at the cost Blaziken dealing massive damage to itself if it misses; however, Low Kick is preferred, as High Jump Kick only deals more damage to the rare Quagsire. Stone Edge can be used instead of Knock Off if your team needs to damage Ho-Oh; it also has the added benefit of denting Lugia and physically defensive Yveltal.


    Set Details
    ========
    Maximum investment in both Attack and Speed allows Mega Blaziken to come in and immediately get to work, capitalizing on Blaziken's offensive stats and allowing it to become the fearsome wallbreaker it is. The slashes represent three possible sets that you can run: Protect and three attacks, Swords Dance and three attacks, or Swords Dance and Protect with two attacks. An Adamant nature is used to OHKO Pokemon such as Kyogre that are not normally OHKOed if using Jolly. Jolly can be used over Adamant in order to allow Blaziken to outspeed Choice Scarf Pokemon such as Zekrom after one or two boosts, depending on whether it is in Mega forme or using the Life Orb set. However, by using Jolly, Blaziken loses offensive prowess it would otherwise enjoy. Life Orb Blaziken allows you to use a different Mega Evolution on your team.


    Usage Tips
    ========
    Be wary about directly switching Blaziken in as its relatively low bulk leaves its vulnerable to taking heavy damage. In addition, watch out for priority moves that can revenge kill it, such as Extreme Speed from Arceus or Rayquaza. Protect allows Blaziken to gain +1 from Speed Boost, helping you easily build momentum; it also offers added utility in seeing what move your opponent was going for, giving you an advantage. Don't just spam Flare Blitz blindly, as recoil racks up quickly, leaving Blaziken vulnerable to revenge killers. If you opt for Knock Off, it allows Blaziken to catch Pokemon on the switch and cripple them; it even allows more damage against Giratina, a common check to Blaziken.


    Team Options
    ========
    Stealth Rock support helps Blaziken deal with Lugia, Ho-Oh, and Yveltal, so Pokemon like Groudon or Landorus-T make great teammates. Groudon also helps Mega Blaziken by setting up sun and dispelling rain; it also checks Extreme Killer Arceus with its great physical bulk and can retaliate with an attack or cripple with Thunder Wave. Groudon can also run Lava Plume in order to catch opposing Landorus-T off guard and score a burn, leaving Landorus-T crippled for the rest of the match. Landorus-T as a teammate itself provides Intimidate support and checks Ho-Oh, a counter to Blaziken. Landorus-T also carries U-turn which gets Blaziken in safely. Yveltal breaks many of the Pokemon that can wall Blaziken, such as the Giratina formes. Xerneas can be used as another offensive sweeper that is also able to deal with both Giratina formes. Wobbuffet is an interesting team member as it is able to trap and take out any checks or counters to Blaziken; it can be used with Xerneas carrying Hidden Power Fire to create a powerful core that benefits Blaziken greatly. Palkia is a great team member as it can sponge water moves thrown at Blaziken and also deal with Rayquaza, which can otherwise revenge kill Blaziken. U-turn/Volt Switch users such as Genesect and Zekrom can get Blaziken in safely. Extreme Killer Arceus can be a good team member as well; Blaziken can weaken the opponent's team by KOing or debilitating Arceus's checks, allowing Arceus to come in and sweep.


    Baton Pass
    ########
    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Substitute / Roar
    move 4: Flare Blitz
    ability: Speed Boost
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    nature: Jolly


    Moves
    ========
    Baton Pass is used to pass on Speed boosts to another team member. Protect allows Blaziken to gain guaranteed Speed boosts and is absolutely necessary for this set. Substitute used in conjunction with Protect allows you the best option in getting Speed boosts as alternating between them lets Blaziken get boosts without taking much damage. On the other hand, Roar is an interesting option that allows you to prevent Blaziken from being phazed out and losing its Speed boosts; it also prevents opponents from setting up on it. Flare Blitz provides a reliable and powerful physical Fire-type STAB to deal with opposing Pokemon with Taunt.


    Set Details
    ========
    Maximum Attack and Speed let Blaziken switch in, use a Protect, and begin to outspeed the opponent while having respectable Attack in case Flare Blitz needs to be used. By investing in Attack, Blaziken is not a sitting duck in front of setup sweepers and can actually deal significant damage while gaining boosts. A Jolly nature is used here to ensure a Substitute after your first Protect. After one boost, Blaziken can outspeed many of the non-Choice Scarf Ubers Pokemon. This prevents Blaziken from taking severe damage or being completely knocked out. Its survival is necessary to pass on Speed boosts to the rest of the team. Leftovers is used to increase Blaziken's longevity; it works great in conjunction with Protect as Blaziken geta a Speed boost and +6.25% recovery.


    Usage Tips
    ========
    Watch out for potential Taunt users like Deoxys-S as they can cripple this entire set. Protect is a cornerstone of this set, allowing Blaziken to stay in and get Speed boosts. It also provides utility as you can scout what move your opponent is going for, allowing you to plan accordingly. A good strategy is to come and and use Protect to get a Speed boost. Then, alternate with Substitute and continue to do so to maximize your Speed boosts for another Pokemon. Also, a predicted switch allows you to use Substitute and then Protect on the next turn, allowing Blaziken to gain a Speed boost and pass on a Substitute to another Pokemon on your team. Roar is used mainly to prevent Blaziken from being phazed out. It is faster than most phazers after one Speed boost, so its Roar will go first and prevent it from being switched out. Watch out for priority moves such as Extreme Speed or Shadow Sneak that can mortally damage Blaziken. By passing your Speed boosts to another Pokemon that is powerful but slow, you are able to turn the tide against your opponent and potentially sweep their team with your Speed-boosted switch-in.


    Team Options
    ========
    Groudon can be used to help boost Blaziken's Flare Blitz by setting up the sun and dispelling any rain; sun support also lowers any damage from Water-type moves. You can Baton Pass Speed boosts to terrifying offensive Pokemon plagued by their sub-par Speed, allowing them to pull off sweeps that would otherwise be difficult. These include Life Orb or Choice Band Zekrom, Mega Kangaskhan, Life Orb or tank Ho-Oh, Lustrous Orb or Life Orb Palkia, Choice Specs Kyogre, or Choice Band Groudon. By passing to these Pokemon, you are able to use Baton Pass Blaziken to its fullest.


    Other Options
    ########
    Brave Bird can be utilized as it provides neutral damage against most Pokemon, but the only common threats it hits for super effective damage are Mega Mewtwo-X and Fighting Arceus, which take massive damage from Flare Blitz as is. Otherwise, Brave Bird is another recoil move that shouldn't really be used over any other moves on any set. Rock Slide can be used, but its main target is Ho-Oh. Stone Edge is a better option in order to deal more damage to Yveltal and Lugia. Shadow Claw can be used instead of Knock Off to deal more damage to Mega Gengar and Giratina-O since their items can't be knocked off. However, it doesn't have as much utility against opposing tanks and switch-ins by knocking off Leftovers or Choice items. Boosting moves such as Swords Dance and Bulk Up can be used on the Baton Passing set, but they have a marginal or non-existent bonus for special attackers and require more turns to set up, limiting Blaziken's longevity. Overheat can be used on the Baton Pass set to cut down on recoil damage, but it isn't consistent damage-wise. By lowering Special Attack, it limits your Baton Passing to physical attackers since special attackers won't appreciate lowerd Special Attack. Choice Band can be used to grant Blaziken an immediate power boost, but is constrictive and counterproductive with Speed Boost. Blaziken won't be able to switch attacks, making it easily blocked by opposing tanks such as Water Arceus and Fairy Arceus, forcing it to switch out and lose its Speed boosts.


    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Giratina**: Both Giratina formes can take anything Blaziken throws at them except for a boosted Knock Off and are able to eventually KO it or phaze it out.

    **Gyarados**: Gyarados resists both of Blaziken's STABs, letting it easily come in and get an Attack drop from Intimidate. It can also threaten to KO Blaziken with Waterfall.

    **Landorus-Therian**: Landorus-T can switch in and take a hit with Defense investment and Intimidate, although it doesn't appreciate a boosted Flare Blitz. It is able to KO Blaziken with Earthquake as well.

    **Fairy Arceus and Water Arceus**: Physically defensive variants can tank a few hits. They each resist one of Blaziken's STAB, but don't appreciate the other STAB that it can go for.

    **Ghost Arceus**: Ghost Arceus is immune to Blaziken's Fighting-type STAB and can retaliate back with a Judgment. However, it must be wary of Flare Blitz.

    **Quagsire**: Unaware ignores Blaziken's stat boosts and Quagsire can attack back with its Water- and Ground-type STABs; it doesn't fare well against High Jump Kick though.

    **Kyogre**: Kyogre can come in and set up rain, which severely limits Blaziken's coverage and helps out Pokemon that resist or are immune to Blaziken's Fighting-type STAB such as Fairy Arceus and Ghost Arceus. Kyogre also threatens to KO Blaziken with its Water-type STAB attacks.

    **Phazers**: Phazers are able to Whirlwind/Roar/Dragon Tail the Baton Pass set. They can also force the offensive set out, canceling its Speed boosts.

    **Prankster Users**: Thundurus and Klefki can use priority Thunder Wave to cripple the offensive set, and Thundurus can also Taunt to shut down the Baton Pass set.

    **Poison**: Poison limits Blaziken's longevity as it increases in damage each turn and is especially harmful for the Baton Pass set, lowering the time Blaziken can stay in and thus the amount of boosts it can pass on.

    **Revenge Killers**: Pokemon such as Normal Arceus or Rayquaza with Extreme Speed are able to revenge kill Blaziken due to its paltry bulk and recoil damage.

    Skeleton (open)


    Overview
    ########

    Blaziken takes the title of being the first,and currently only, starter to be banished from the lower tiers to ubers thanks to its dream world ability Speed Boost. Speed boost is the sole reason it became Ubers material. With it, Blaziken is able to outspeed and KO many threats and pass on boosts to the rest of the team. Blaziken now makes its second debut but now with a new boon: a mega evolution. Blaziken continues to be a formidable threat to watch out for. With its new 100 base speed, it is able to out speed much of the base 90 ubers metagame. However, Blaziken isn't held to only utilizing it's mega evolution. Life orb and leftovers variants have utility in its wall breaking and baton pass sets respectively. Life orb Blaziken actually does a bit more damage than it's mega counterpart. Leftovers provide healing and can be used in conjunction with protect to get health and a speed boost. With the weather nerf, Blaziken gets an added bonus. Although it doesn't have everpresent sun support, rain doesn't last forever neither. Groudon is no longer necessary to counter Kyogre's rain.

    However, everything is not as perfect as it may seem for the speedy chicken. It has rather poor bulk even with its mega evolution which leaves it open to being revenge killed by priority, makes it rather tough to switch into, and difficult to set up a Swords Dance with. It also has dependancy on a recoil move, Flare Blitz which doesn't help with its rather poor bulk. Its mega evolution set, which is arguably its best set, represents a cost compared to using other megas such as Mewtwo and Gengar on your team. These factors shouldn't discount Blaziken's usefulness. Nevertheless, with proper switch in and set up, Blaziken is still a formidable threat to look out for.


    Offensive
    ########
    name: Blaze is Back
    move 1: Low Kick
    move 2: Flare Blitz
    move 3: Swords Dance / Protect
    move 4: Knock Off / Protect
    ability: Speed Boost
    item: Blazikinite / Life Orb
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    nature: Adamant / Jolly

    Moves
    ========
    • Flare Blitz provides a reliable and powerful physical fire-type STAB.
    • Low Kick hits most of the Ubers metagame for base 120 and in conjunction with Flare Blitz you can hit most of the tier for neutral damage. It is used over High Jump Kick on Swords Dance sets.
    • High Jump Kick can be an alternative to Low Kick. It offers 130 base power but if it misses, Blaziken deal massive damage to itself. It is a situational option as it only does damage to Quagsire which rarely sees use in Ubers.
    • Swords Dance allows you to get a quick +2 to attack to massively increase damage output.
    • Protect allows not only guranteed speed boosts, but also allows you to scout what move your opponent is going for.
    • Knock off is another great utility move as it allows Blaziken to deal massive damage to direct resists to Flare Blitz and Low Kick in both Girantina forms. It also allows you to catch your opponent on a switch and lets you take off an otherwise useful item from the Pokemon they switch into.
    • Baton pass can be used in this set to provide speed boosts for other team members when Blaziken is low. Make sure to use Protect with it as it gurantees speed boosts.
    • Stone edge can be used instead of Knock off if your team is lacking against Ho-oh. It also dents Lugia and physically defensive Yveltal.

    Set Details
    ========
    • 252 attack and 252 speed allow Mega Blaziken to come in and immediately get to work, attacking anything your opponent throws at you.
    • The slashes represent three possible sets that you can run: Protect + 3 attacks, Swords Dance and three attacks and Swords Dance and Protect with 2 attacks.
    • Jolly is used in order to boost Blaziken's speed and allow it to out speed scarfers such as Zekrom after one boost in its mega evolution or after two in its life orb set.
    • Adamant can be used over Jolly so that your moves can deal more damage which allows you to OHKO Pokemon such as Kyogre not normally OHKO'd by Jolly.
    • Life Orb Blaziken actually deals a bit more damage than it's mega evolution. It also allows you to use another Pokemon that has a mega that benefits your team.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    • Be wary about flat out switching Blaziken in as it has relatively low 80/80/80(mega) or 80/70/70(regular) bulk which means that it takes heavy damage from everything and can possibly get OHKO'd if your not careful.
    • Protect allows you to gain +1 from speed boost to build momentum. It offers added utility in allowing you to see what move your opponent was going for and allows you to utilize that information to your advantage.
    • Don't just spam Flare Blitz blindly as the recoil racks up quickly and can leave Blaziken fairly vulnerable to revenge killers. Your opponent can take advantage of this by switching into a resist which gradually increases the recoil with not much damage to them while adding to your recoil.
    • Watch out for priority moves that can revenge kill you such as extreme speed on arceus and Rayquaza.

    Team Options
    ========
    • Pokemon that can set up Stealth Rocks as Blaziken enjoys the damage from it done to Lugia, Ho-h, and Yveltal.
    • Groudon can be used to help Mega Blaziken by setting up the sun and dispelling the rain. It allows Flare Blitz to do more damage. Also checks Ekiller Arceus as it can take hits and retaliate with an attack or thunder wave.
    • Landorus-T provides intimidate support and checks Ho-oh which counters Blaziken.
    • Yveltal can wall break many of the Pokemon that can wall Blaziken such as Giratina forms.
    • Xerneas can be used as another offensive sweeper and able to deal with both Giratina forms.
    • Palkia is a great team member as it can sponge water moves thrown at Blaziken and deal with Rayquaza that can revenge kill Blaziken.
    • U-turn/Volt Switch users such as Landorus that can get Blaziken a free switch.
    • E-killer Arceus can be a good team member as well. Blaziken is able to weaken the opponent's team by KOing or debilitating Arceus's checks. This allows Arceus to come in and sweep.


    Baton Pass
    ########
    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Substitute / Roar
    move 4: Flare Blitz
    ability: Speed Boost
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    nature: Jolly

    Moves
    ========
    • Baton Pass used to pass on the boosts you gain to another team member for use.
    • Protect allows you to gain guranteed speed increases from Blaziken's ability.
    • Substitute used in conjunction with Protect allows you the best option in getting speed boosts as you can alternate between them which allows Blaziken to get the boosts without fearing much damage.
    • Roar is an interesting option that allows you prevent Blaziken from being phazed out and losing its speed boosts. It also prevents opponent Pokemon from setting up on you.
    • Flare Blitz provides a reliable and powerful physical fire-type STAB that allows you to deal with opposing Pokemon with taunt.

    Set Details
    ========
    • 252 Hp and 252 Speed allow Blaziken to switch in, use a protect and begin to outspeed the opponent while having respectable bulk to take a few hits while setting up.
    • A Jolly nature is used here to make sure that you are able to use substitute after your first Protect. This prevents Blaziken from taking severe damage or even being completely Knocked out.
    • The attack investment makes sure that Blaziken is not a sitting duck to set up sweepers.
    • Leftovers is used for healing and to increase longevity. It works great in conjunction with protect as you get a speed boost and +6.25% recovery.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    • Watch out for potential taunt users such as Deoxys-S as they can cripple this entire set as you wont be able to pass on your speed boosts.
    • Protect is the cornerstone of this set allowing you to stay in and get speed boosts.
    • A good strategy is to come and and use protect to get a speed boost. Then alternate to Substitute and continue to do so to pass your speed to another Pokemon.
    • A predicted switch allows you to use Substitute and then Protect on the next turn. This allows you to gain a speed boost after and the ability to pass on a Substitute to an another Pokemon on your team.
    • Roar is used mainly to prevent Blaziken from being phazed out. It is faster than phazers after one speed boost, so its Roar will go first and prevent it from being switched out.
    • Watch out for priority moves that can deal with you such as Extremespeed and Shadow Sneak.

    Team Options
    ========
    • Groudon can be used to help boost Blaziken's Flare Blitz by setting up the sun and dispelling the rain. It allows Flare Blitz to do more damage. Sun support also lowers damage from water moves.
    • You can Baton Pass your speed boosts to terrifying offensive Pokemon with low speed. includes:
      • Life Orb and Choice Band Zekrom
      • Mega Kangaskhan
      • Life orb and Tank Ho-Oh.
      • Lustrous Orb and Life Orb Palkia
      • Choice Specs Kyogre
      • Choice Band Groudon

    Other Options
    ########
    • Brave Bird can be utilized. However, the only common threats it hits for super effective damage are Mega Mewtwo-X and Arceus fighting. Both take massive damage from Flare Blitz as is. Otherwise, Brave Bird is another recoil move that shouldn't really be used over any other moves in the set.
    • Rock slide can be used, but its main target is Ho-oh. Stone edge should be used for more damage to Yveltal and Lugia.
    • Shadow claw can be used instead of Knock off since it deals less damage to Mega Gengar and Giratina-O. However, you don't have it's secondary effects against other opponent Pokemon.
    • Boosting moves such as Swords Dance and Bulk up can be used in the Baton Passing set but have a marginal or nonexistent bonus for special attackers and take more turns to set up.
    • Overheat can be used in the Baton Pass set to cut down on Recoil damage. But repeated usage causes it to deal less damage and it also has a chance to miss.
    • Choice Band can be used to grant Blaziken an immediate power boost, but it constricts it and doesn't help out speed boost at all.


    Checks & Counters
    ########
    • Both Giratina forms can take anything Blaziken throws at them except for boosted Knock Off and are able to eventually KO it or phaze it out.
    • Gyarados can come in and get an intimidate on Blaziken while also resisting both of it's stab attacks.
    • Landorus-Therian can switch in and take a hit with Defensive investment and Intimidate, although it doesn't appreciate boosted Flare Blitz.
    • Physically Defensive Arceus-Fairy and Arceus water-Water can take a few hits. They also resist one of Blaziken's STABs each, but can't stay in on repeated use of the other STAB that they don't resist.
    • Arceus-Ghost is immune to Blaziken's fighting type STAB and retaliate back with a Judgement. Consequently, it must be wary of Flare Blitz.
    • Quagsire with Unaware can ignore Blaziken's stat boosts and attack back with it's water and earth STABs. It doesn't fare well against High Jump Kick though.
    • Kyogre is able to come in and set up the rain which severely limits its coverage. This can help out Pokemon that resist/immune to Blaziken's fighting STAB such as Arceus-Fairy and Arceus-Ghost.
    • Phazers that are able to Whirlwind/Roar/Dragon tail the Baton Pass set.
    • Pokemon that have Prankster such as Thundurus and Klefki. They can use Thunder wave which cripples the offensive set. Taunt from Thundurus shuts down the BP set.
    • Poison limits the amount of time Blaziken can stay in by adding and increasing damage each turn on it.
    • Revenge Killers such as Arceus-Normal and Rayquaza with extreme speed are able to revenge kill Blaziken with its paltry bulk and with prior damage.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2014
  2. AceSat

    AceSat

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages:
    181
    With Blaziken's base 130 special attack it can be a special attacker. However, it's only viable special moves are Overheat, Fire Blase, Flamethrower, Focus Blast, and perhaps Vaccum Wave. I don't know if i should make a mixed attacking set as it seems rather gimmicky and unreliable.
  3. Hack

    Hack formerly Hack He Must
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    938
    Take away the first set, and make the main set look like:

    name: Fuck you Hack
    move 1: Low Kick
    move 2: Flare Blitz
    move 3: Swords Dance / Protect
    move 4: Knock Off / Protect
    ability: Speed Boost
    item: Blazikenite / Life Orb
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    nature: Adamant / Jolly

    There are two ways to run Mega Blaze, either you run it with a set-up move or not. However, I don't think the sets are terribly different to the point where Protect+3 atk (powerful revenge killer without having to be scarfed is deadly vs offense) and SD+3 atk or SD+protect+STAB (arguably the best wallbreaker in the game) warrants two different set. The slashing is therefore made so it becomes clear that you shouldn't walk outside your door without your STAB attacks, which are very instrumental. After that comes a choice between SD and Protect. If you run SD you still have to choice to run protect in the last slot, or go 3 atk+SD, so no confusion for users there. If you choose protect over SD, then you are obviously forced to run Knock Off (or whatever niche move you want to run) which means the structure of the set is quite clear- either you run SD 3atks, SD+STAB+protect or 3 atks+Protect. For moves you can mention Stone Edge, which has a tiny niche after all. HJK also needs a mention, as it is a tad stronger which can help against some threats like phys def Ho-oh after SR. Lastly, Baton Pass is a move that has some use, so it should be mentioned too. Item slash is simply Blazikenite or Life Orb you are opting for another Mega on your team, if you aren't then use Blazikenite as it is better. Adamant is the primary nature for Mega-Blaze, while Jolly is for standard Blaze, but swapping to fit team needs is ofc okay. You might also want to stress the need of Protect on standard Blaziken- it has more trouble setting up and is therefore more reliant on being a fast revenge killer. An option for item if no Blazikenite is Leftovers.

    Next up you need to incorporate a Baton Pass set. However, I have no idea how it really should look like as I haven't used it at all, but something like this maybe:

    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Swords Dance / Substitute
    move 4: Roar / Feather Dance / Fire Blast, Overheat idk
    ability: Speed Boost
    item: Focus Sash / Leftovers / Mental Herb?!?!
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Spe somethingish
    nature: Timid nature, 0 atk ivs

    Anyway some more experienced with the set should chime in but it should generally look something like protect+baton pass at least imo.
  4. AceSat

    AceSat

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages:
    181
    Ok thanks for the suggestions.
    Going to implement the first set like you stated and as for a baton pass set I'll work that in immediately.
  5. Hack

    Hack formerly Hack He Must
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    938
    I was on the brink of outright rejecting this at first sight. The impression you gave was not very serious, the main reason being the former first set (all-out attacker w/o protect). However, I decided to clean this up and give you demands on sets as the qc members such as myself would like to see them. Since you decided to make the main set an almost obsolete attempt that is just a niche variation of the standard SD set (which should be first) I will have to give one last warning. If you do not clean this up and follow guidelines that qc members wants, I will have to reject this analysis. Sorry to come off as harsh but I sure don't remember saying "let's make the first set a niche variant of the SD set with an inefficient spread etcetc."
  6. Sweep

    Sweep
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    847
    Hi. Mega Blaziken and regular Blaziken do not function so differently that they deserve separate sets. Please merge them under the name "Sweeper" and slash Blazikenite and Life Orb (refer to Hack's first post in this thread for more information how to merge the sets).

    As for the rest of this analysis...

    Overview

    1. Blaziken is not a "mixed attacker" in ubers, as the few things that have a chance to wall it (Arceus-Water, Giratina, Arceus-Fairy, Physically Defensive Xerneas) do not give a crap about Blaziken's special attacks. Blaziken isn't like Overheat Extremekiller in its ability to bypass some of its checks by hitting from the opposite side of the spectrum; there is simply no reason to run special attacks on Blaziken's already crowded movepool. Remove the mixed attacker reference from the overview.

    2. "Instead of being a setup sweeper that was easy to deal with as it was last generation" <---- Remove, Blaziken wasn't great but was still very threatening with Sun support. Plus, how Blaziken fared last generation is not relevant. Also, mention that Blaziken is more of a wallbreaker than anything, as a combination of priority+recoil will make it difficult to pull off too many sweeps.

    3. "It is relatively simple to counter and check since it functions with the same flare blitz and low kick/high jump kick attacking core." HELL no. After a Swords Dance, Blaziken becomes unwallable unless you have a Lugia with its Multiscale intact. IIRC even Unaware Quagsire takes a beating from Hi Jump Kick, and Physically Defensive Xern and Arceus-Water are not taking its STAB moves well at all. If Blaziken sets up a Swords Dance and you lack strong priority, you're in severe trouble. Remove this sentence please, and mention that Fire+Fighting STAB has zero common resists in Ubers.

    4. Quickly mention how much Blaziken appreciates Stealth Rock, especially to help break Lugia, Ho-Oh and Physically Defensive Yveltal.

    Sweeper Set

    5. In addition to all the stuff Hack said, mention the possibility of an Adamant spread, especially on sets with Protect. The increase of power is noticeable, potentially allowing you to OHKO Kyogre with Hi Jump Kick after SR (something Jolly cannot do). Put this in Set Details. Also, Low Kick > Hi Jump Kick on Swords Dance sets, but on Protect / 3 Attack sets it's a toss-up.

    Baton Pass Set

    6. Bulk Up sounds kinda cool, but you HAVE to give examples of the kinds of Pokemon that would enjoy a defense boost in Team Options. Stuff vulnerable to priority, like Rayquaza or perhaps Mega Mewtwo-X sound like ideal candidates. I'll let you leave this slashed for now, I'm honestly interested in what you come up with.

    7. Protect is mandatory, do not slash it as Blaziken needs to attain at least one speed boost vs offense to guarantee a pass. My set looks a little different from your's and Hack's, but not by much. Blazikenite is slightly better than leftovers IMO, the choice between the two depends on if you want to use a mega slot on this.

    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Swords Dance / Bulk Up
    move 4: Flare Blitz / Roar
    ability: Speed Boost
    item: Blazikenite / Leftovers
    evs: 252 HP / 4Atk / 252 Spe
    nature: Jolly

    8. In team options, focus more on teammates that appreciate Blaziken's speed boosts. Also, take out all the references pertaining to Blaziken's offensive prowess; this is a support set, not an attack set. I just like Flare Blitz to aggravate stuff like Taunt Deoxys-S

    Other Options

    9. Overheat only deserves a mention for the Baton Pass set to cut down on recoil, though I prefer Flare Blitz because it cannot afford to miss if it needs to attack. As mentioned earlier, mixed attacking Blaziken has no niche over standard Blaziken other than to cause more innocent computers to be thrown out of apartment windows courtesy of the move: Focus Blast.

    10. Move Stone Edge to the main set, though do not slash it. Rock Slide can stay in OO but mention it has only one target (Ho-Oh). Stone Edge at least hits Yveltal slightly harder than its main STABS.

    11. Brave Bird only hits Arceus-Fighting and Mewtwo-X harder than its main moves, both of which dislike Flare Blitz as it is. Not sure if this is worth OO. If you decide to keep it, stress how much it sucks.

    Checks & Counters

    12. OK, this section is very...lacking. Blaziken should never use Shadow Claw since Knock Off is better in all cases. It actually threatens to OHKO a good number of the checks you posted after a Swords Dance boost. Mention priority Thunder Wave from Klefki and Thundurus as a means of stopping Blaziken's sweep, as they can sacrifice themselves in desperate situations. Thunder Wave/Aeroblast Lugia is the only real counter I can think of, and it needs Stealth Rock off the field to avoid getting OHKOed by a +2 Knock Off. Add Quagsire (hates HJK), Landorus-Therian, Physically Defensive Arceus-Water and Physically Defensive Arceus-Fairy to the list. The last three bullet points were very good, though mention that poison will not prevent Blaziken from doing its job by itself. Blaziken definitely dislikes Toxic Spikes though!

    There are many more problems with this analysis, especially the shallow Usage tips sections, but do your best & know you have our support assuming you follow instructions.
    Piexplode likes this.
  7. AceSat

    AceSat

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    Hi guys. First to hack, sorry about not seeing the set you mentioned as the first set, I was cutting and pasting and then I went to go study your set and all the changes you'vecsuggested I make will be on there. And sweep, wow thanks for all that analysis :O. Like I said I was copying and pasting and left it to go to study so that is why weird options like shadow claw is there. Guys I'd like to remind you I got the reservation yesterday. By the end of the week I would have this clean and ready for qc, but I'd like to say again thanks for the help so far.
  8. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    I'd suggest if you're going to include Roar in the Baton Pass set that Blaziken uses Focus Sash over Leftovers. Sash can at least net you +2/+2 to pass away without getting killed, while Leftovers doesn't really help you since you get killed most of the time anyway.
  9. AceSat

    AceSat

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    Hi thanks for the input!
    I'm thinking of putting roar in other options. Having it on there is interesting though, but it makes Blaziken uselss against taunt Imo that is very possible in ubers. I wonder what other people think. But I understand where your coming from as Blaziken has insufficient bulk.
    Edit: I am just waiting to hear other opinions on this matter. I put it up there per Sweep's suggestion.
  10. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Is a Fox main.
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    IMO, bpass blaze should be protect, sub, bpass with the last slot going up to some attack or roar with leftoversfor fast phazing. Protect, pass, stabs @ LO is also viable but not sure which set that variant would be blended with.
  11. AceSat

    AceSat

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    So I could add another slash after swords dance and bulk up for substitute. Maybe take out bulk up. I see how subprotect allows easy speed boosts. I feel like bulk up is only for priority extremespeed abd that's it. With speed boosts passed on, you can be faster then everything except for priority. So maybe defence doesn't matter that much.
  12. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Is a Fox main.
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    Um, don't bother with boosting moves. I'm just tryingg to say that BP sets shoudl either be used like a normal attacking set but with the twist that it can switch out with speed boosts to the next guy if needed or as a more dedicated Baton Pass set which shouldn't try to do much more than pass a sub if it can. (and even then the sub is just to gather more speed boosts, could probably be slashed with roar tbh)
  13. AceSat

    AceSat

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    Ok thanks for the clarification I will implement it now.
  14. Unowninator

    Unowninator

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    Lugia has Multiscale. Marvel Scale is Milotic's & Dratini's ability.
  15. AceSat

    AceSat

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    Can you guys tell me if it is qc ready now? If not, please suggest changes. Thanks!
  16. Hack

    Hack formerly Hack He Must
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    You still haven't implemented the correct first set which is:

    move 1: Low Kick
    move 2: Flare Blitz
    move 3: Swords Dance / Protect
    move 4: Knock Off / Protect
    ability: Speed Boost
    item: Blazikenite / Life Orb
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    nature: Adamant / Jolly

    Refer to my first post in this thread for more information. This is also what me and Melee Mewtwo agreed on.
  17. AceSat

    AceSat

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    Sweep Suggested that on sets without Swords Dance it can be a toss up between High Jump Kick and Low Kick due to 10 more base power. If you'd like me to remove it and put in in 00 just tell me to. Also, do you believe that I am ready to open the thread for QC checks?
    EDIT: Oh I see what you mean. The first set had leftovers instead of Blaziknite. that was a copy and pasting error on my part.
  18. Hack

    Hack formerly Hack He Must
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    There isn't a toss up between the moves. Low Kick is better in almost every regard. HJK can still be mentioned in moves section as it hits the very niche quagsire harder. I don't think it should be slashed as protect+3atks and SD are merged.
  19. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

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    Imo just mention high jump kick in moves and don't slash it. Low kick is just much better in general, though i guess high jump kick hits quagsire.

    Edit: Oops! Didn't realize Hack wrote the exact same thing, but I guess it's reassuring that I still know my Ubers stuff lol.
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2014
  20. AceSat

    AceSat

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    Ok, I have implemented this. Any other suggestions you guys see that is necessary for this skeleton?
  21. -Clone-

    -Clone-

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    Hi, Blaziken user here. I don't know if you're still taking set suggestions since you're on QC, but it still looks like you dont have any yet (QCs that is). :Here is the set I run:

    Try and Catch me
    Blaziken @ Blazikenite
    Ability: Speed Boost
    EVs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spd
    - High Jump Kick/Low Kick
    - Flare Blitz
    - Protect
    - Swords Dance/Knock Off

    So there it is. The speed EVs allow Blaziken to reach 284 speed once he mega evolves with an Adamant nature, which ties with Jolly Life Orb normal Blaziken.

    A few things I'd like to point out:
    Adamant Mega Blaziken Attack: 460
    Jolly Normal Life Orb Blaziken Attack: 450.87 ~ 451

    Adamant Mega Blaziken out damages Life Orb Jolly Blaziken.

    Anyways, one of the biggest checks I see to him is Extreme Killer Arceus, thanks to STAB Extreme Speed. It does not OHKO:

    252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mega Blaziken: 196-232 (61.8 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Arceus Earthquake vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mega Blaziken: 272-322 (85.8 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

    I threw in Earthquake for good measure, and unboosted it only has a 12.5% chance of OHKOing.

    252+ Atk Mega Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 468-552 (105.4 - 124.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 432-510 (97.2 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

    Even with Low Kick, Blaziken can easily KO Arceus, even when fully invested in HP (Which I rarely run into).

    Next, the hard counter to Blaziken, Giratina (Ill use altered forme since he's bulkier)

    252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 232-274 (46 - 54.3%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 158-186 (31.3 - 36.9%) -- 73.5% chance to 3HKO

    Assuming you can predict the switch in correctly, Blaziken can deal up to 90% before Giratina can even move with Knock Off. Giratina can only hope to phaze him out with Dragon Tail, which really doesnt do that much anyways:

    4 Atk Giratina Dragon Tail vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mega Blaziken: 78-93 (24.6 - 29.3%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO

    Granted, after spamming Flare Blitz after a while, Blaziken doesn't always have 100% health, but it's something to look into.
  22. AceSat

    AceSat

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    Thanks for the calcs! As you can see, the first set is basically the set you stated without hjk and the hp investments. My first set was similar to that, but we opted for full speed so it can out speed some scatters after a speed boost. I really appreciate your input though.
  23. TheTraininator

    TheTraininator

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    Minor error I noticed, you mentioned that Knock Off does extra damage to Giratina-O and Mega Gengar, however, it does not. If the item in question is unable to be knocked off due to the nature of the item itself, (not due to abilities such as Sticky Hold or Suction Cups however,) then Knock Off doesn't receive a damage buff. Mega Stones and Griseous Orb on Giratina can't be removed in battle by any means, so Knock Off is weaker than Shadow Claw against those two.
  24. AceSat

    AceSat

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    Thanks for pointing that out. I was jsut typing at that point and didn't check that area.
    Now to wait patiently for QC checks :).
  25. Unowninator

    Unowninator

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    What about Suction Cups? Was it buffed in a way I don't know about?

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