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Blaziken

Discussion in 'Ubers' started by orch, Dec 15, 2013.

  1. orch

    orch

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Name:
    Blaziken
    Type: Fire and Fighting
    Abilities: Blaze and Speed Boost
    Base Stats: 80/120/70/110/70/80
    Mega Ability: Speed Boost
    Mega Stats: 80/160/80/130/80/100
    Movepool: http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/blaziken

    General Description:
    Blaziken received an amazing upgrade this generation. The knock off buff allows Blaziken to beat bulky ghosts easily, and with no recoil. Blaziken is arguably the most powerful offensive presence in X/Y, since with SR and +2, it is able to 1HKO almost all pokemon in the metagame. Getting +2 is quite easy, since Blaziken is immune to WoW and can tank super effective hits. Just watch out for priority. Alternatively, Blaziken is able to function as a fantastic baton passer, since it forces switches.

    Notable Sets:

    Sword Dance Blaziken
    Blaziken @ Blazikenite
    Ability: Speed Boost
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Low Kick
    - Flare Blitz
    - Knock Off
    - Swords Dance
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
  2. GRB1

    GRB1

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    He is definitely up there, but getting to +2 without Protect or a Jolly nature (as your set suggests), while keeping Stealth Rocks up with Defog all over the tier, is quite the challenge. An Adamant Nature means for 2 turns, every Timid/Jolly base 90-100 Speed-tier Scarfer (Namely Kyogre and Palkia) outspeeds.

    By running Jolly, you can Swords Dance on a pokemon, and by the time your opponent switches, you're at +2 Attack, and you outspeed Kyogre and speed-tie Timid Scarf Palkia, and can OHKO both. However, I'm not sure how Blaziken's "OHKO the entire tier" power (which is crazy) is altered by running Jolly.

    Also, while Mega Blaziken is very dangerous, without Stealth Rock, Blaziken can't touch Lugia (at full health Multiscale) or Ho-Oh. And as I said earlier, Stealth Rock is fairly difficult to maintain in this metagame The former can phaze, and the latter can tank one hit and easily OHKO back with Brave Bird.

    And also, gimmicky troll-Pranksters like Klefki and Thundurus can paralyze and ruin Blaziken's sweep. Some sets of Klefki can also sacrifice themselves by setting up a Reflect and being OHKO'd by Flare Blitz, but this paves the way for other Pokemon tanking a hit and hitting Blaziken hard. Aegislash can play some evil King's Shield mind-games with Blaziken as well.

    All that said a lot of Blaziken's faults can be applied to most of the powerful Uber sweepers, and these can always be remedied by a good team composition. Blaziken is definitely VERY dangerous this generation.
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
  3. orch

    orch

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    Mega Blaze have 100 speed base, so after +1, it's able to outrun timid/jolly scarfed base 90's.

    So, I did some calcs to see if Jolly was missing OHKO on some of stuff, and here's few that I found. I'm pretty sure that there's more out there but I cba looking through them.

    These OHKOs are guaranteed with adamant.
    +2 252 Atk Mega Blaziken Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 608-716 (86.3 - 101.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    +2 252 Atk Mega Blaziken Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 191-225 (45.9 - 54%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    This turns from a chance of OHKO to
    +2 252 Atk Mega Blaziken Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina-O: 356-420 (70.6 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    Alert to Sounds likes this.
  4. GRB1

    GRB1

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    Damn, those missed OHKO's suck. Might have to weigh the options a bit more. Also, Timid/Jolly Base 90 = 306 Speed. Base 100 Adamant = 299 Speed. So...

    Timid Scarf Kyogre/Palkia Speed > Adamant Blaziken Speed at +1.

    Edit: What kind of Ho-Oh's will be running 252 HP/ 252+ Def lol?
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
  5. Haruno

    Haruno

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    First off blaziken doesn't get to +2atk by taking a hit, blaziken gets a swords dance up by being able to easily force switches whether it be by the threat of protect boosting its speed or outright threatening the mon currently in play. Blaziken doesn't care for stealth rock damage since 1/8th of its life doesn't mean much to it, though no one will switch in their (insert scarfer here) against blaziken so blaziken isn't under the threat of being outsped, rather your opponent will opt to switch in something that can cripple/ko it after taking a hit (lugia, ho oh, gira, mother fucking carbink, etc) which a +2 blaze will struggle against if rocks are off so the speed argument is pretty pointless.

    Scarfkia doesn't exist anymore in favor of lustrous/assault vest and scarf ogre will almost always run modest and again cannot switchin since there's a high chance blaze gets to +2 and/or has protect to be able to reach +2 speed to outspeed so both of those don't stop it. Scarfers in general with under 108 base speed don't threaten to outspeed blaze.

    Stealth rock is very easy to keep up since it's a tall order for a team to suddenly be able to send in their defog user and use defog, especially against HO teams which are specifically designed to apply enough pressure to stop that from happening.

    No good player will set up blaze while a prankster twave user is still intact. Aegis doesn't scare blaze at all bar special variants but even then aegis is at a far larger risk than blaze is since it is unable to ko blaze if it mispredicts while blaze easily kos.

    Blaze has no real faults besides the fact that its first turn is very important and if you mispredict on that first turn then you're fucked since the only real way an ubers team can kill blaze is by spamming priority since blazes two best answers (talonflame, azumarill) don't exist.
    Luigifan and orch like this.
  6. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

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    Griseous Orb cannot be removed by the means of Knock Off, so it only hits for 65 BP.
  7. GRB1

    GRB1

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    It's weird. The way it is described makes it sound as if it gets the boost on EVERYTHING that doesn't have a Mega-Stone, even Plates and Orbs. IDK though, it's weird.
  8. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

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    Oh. If that's the case, I'm really not sure then. I could swear I read somewhere that its Base Power only increases when it actually Knocks Off the item...
  9. Haze Milotic

    Haze Milotic

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    I really think it gets the boost if the opponent is holding an item, regardless of whether it can actually be knocked off or not. Also, I think running Adamant should be priority on Mega Blaze, just because with your base speed being boosted up to 100, you can afford to run Adamant over Jolly. Of course if you're just running regular Blaze, then I do believe Jolly is preferred.
  10. Ash Borer

    Ash Borer Sun Worshiper
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    Giratina is not available on cart right now, neither is arceus so we dont actually know if it the 1.5x knock off boost occurs.

    Right NOW on the sim, it DOES occur, i've 1hit ghost arceus, and giratina-O with knock off a few times now.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
  11. Haruno

    Haruno

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    The problem with that is

    Megastones + knock off =/= increased bp
    Sticky hold + knock off = increased bp

    So it's hard to say what multitype/griseous orb will be classified under so it's really too early to make assumptions.
  12. clare

    clare

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    The thing about Blaziken is that it's even more of a one-trick pony than Geomancy Xerneas; in fact, it has even less utility outside of sweeping, has fewer setup opportunities, and dies to Arceus's +0 Extremespeed if it takes significant prior damage.
    Granted though, being able to sweep the entire tier at +2 is no small feat.
    Luigifan likes this.
  13. Haruno

    Haruno

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    Xerneas and blaziken perform two completely different roles (geoxern sucks) so it would hardly be fair to compare the two. Blaziken however isn't a "one-trick pony" so to say, and even if it was that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Blaziken is so threatening because you know what it might have in its arsenal. Perhaps being so one sided actually helps it but let's elaborate.

    Blaze's most known set is something along these lines
    Blazekin @ blazekinite/life orb
    Adamant/Jolly
    252atk/252spe/4spd
    -protect/sd
    -flare blitz
    -low kick
    -protect/sd/knock off

    Now when used by a decent player it'll come in on something it knows it can easily threaten like aegislash for example, the following scenario pops up. Do I kings shield on a predicted flare blitz/knock off? Do I switch to my (insert answer to blaze here) predicting the protect? Do I choose to attack predicting the swords dance? All three of these scenarios are heavily in favor of the blaze user since your opponent will be fighting an uphill battle since in most scenarios the blaze user can afford to predict wrong and still maintain momentum while if the aegislash user mispredicts then they'll be either down a mon, faced with a terrifying sweeper that will require a good amount of your team to stop or just outright swept. Blaziken has essentially no proper answers anymore with rocks up since thanks to the knock off buff, the premier answers to blaze in gen 5 (gira/o) are no longer valid and because of speed boost, you have to use priority to stop it if at all. Overall in most scenarios when used properly, blaziken can singlehandedly maul teams that lack multiple priority users.

    Now on a lesser but still very viable set, you have baton pass blaziken. (Which is better than fucking scolipede cough orch cough ogasian cough) which I honestly don't have much experience using however ogasian has been using a baton pass scolipede that would function similarly to how a bp blaze would work. Overall despite blaziken being a "one-trick" pony, it is still definitely a legitimate threat thanks to how easily it can pressure your opponent and being able to set up and must be accounted for when teambuilding.

    Also your last point is pretty moot since pretty much any set up sweeper loses to arceus' espeed if they've taken prior damage though it doesn't make them any less effective.
  14. clare

    clare

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    Which is why I compare Blaziken to Xerneas. Both are tremendous threats - I've swept many an unprepared team with Xerneas, and Blaziken can do the same. Blaziken has zero counters after SR and a boost (Xerneas can still be handled by a few niche counters such as specially defensive Poison/Fire Arceus), but it is significantly harder to set up Blaziken since it can't afford to take any hits while setting up, whereas Xerneas has the bulk to set up in front of many non-SE hits and proceed to sweep if the opponent's priority users have been eliminated (and let's face it, viable priority users in Ubers are pretty much limited to Aegislash, Arceus, Giratina-O, and Scizor).
    Luigifan likes this.
  15. Haruno

    Haruno

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    Geomancy xern is a terrible mon with a high opportunity cost, pretty much all its other sets are far more threatening since using geomancy puts you at essentially 5-6 till latemid/endgame. I could use a linoone and use bellydrum on turn 1 and sweep an unprepared team though that wouldn't make linoone good by any means. Blaze has no counters in the first place, though it has solid checks. Not to mention getting both a sd boost + having sr up is a tall order and not something easily obtained. Blaze cannot afford to take hits, I haven't said anything of the sort in my previous post, instead it puts a huge amount of pressure on your opponent when used properly which is how standard sweeper blaze should be used. I'd be happy to continue the xerneas discussion but frankly I'm already on furai's hitlist and going off topic and talking about how much geomancy xern sucks is just bound to get me an infraction. Sorry, I'd be happy to explain why over pm's/xerneas thread if you wish. Though as it is now, I already listed why blaziken is definitely a threat and can make set up opportunities for itself, obviously if you try setting up with blaziken in front of lugia or ho oh and the likes then you're asking for failure.
  16. ChaosNemesis

    ChaosNemesis

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    Kangaskan-M; Deoxys-A; Rayquaza; Yveltal w SuckerPunch; (Lucario-M)
  17. lordkira

    lordkira

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    I've found Blaziken to have a very number of situations where he can setup.
    I'd much rather use a "utility" set with flare blitz/hjk/protect/bp.
  18. ChrisTehAwesome

    ChrisTehAwesome

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    I've been using this thing with a purely support baton pass set.
    Because of his offensive presence, it's not uncommon to switch in a defensive wall into Blaziken's SD.
    A well timed baton pass to a lum berry zekrom or Extremekiller can press the oh shit button for a lot of teams in this meta.
    Scared of running into another baton pass team tho.
    Currently running sub/sd/protect/bp but I don't know what item to run. Ditto is also a problem if I don't get my sub up.
  19. Luigi Bros.

    Luigi Bros.

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    Is Knock Off truly required for Blaziken? Can Protect take its place?
  20. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    Protect certainly has its uses yes. You'll need more team support to beat Giras (Yveltal or Xerneas are great at this), but Protect has plenty of utility for guaranteeing speed boosts and makes Blaze more useful as a revenge killer.
  21. Aquaslash

    Aquaslash

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    This is the set I'm running on Wifi. I don't know how you guys do it, but I just can't set up SD with ken. He's very much like lucario in which he has a "please punch me in the face ASAP or I will rape your team" sign above him in flashing neon lights.
    GRB1 likes this.
  22. Darkkhurl

    Darkkhurl

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    I don't know why but I have a weird feeling about mega evolution Blaziken....
  23. Aquasition

    Aquasition

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    Well M-Blaziken reminds me of Zero from MMX for some reason, so that might be a factor.

    M-Blaze is a faster-but-weaker version of LO Blaze I find. It still is frail, but that base 100 speed means protect isn't as vital to speed boost, as you outspeed more things sooner, but LO blaze has more of a kick behind its attacks. I find that LO Blaze Likes Protect more, while M-Blaze Prefers Swords Dance/Knock Off instead of Protect( As in SD+Protect, or Protect+ 3 Attacks)
  24. Ohioisonfire

    Ohioisonfire

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    Am I weird at all for running Brave Bird on my Blaziken...? >.<
  25. Trainer Au

    Trainer Au Insert custom title here

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    It doesnt hit anything that your stabs dont besides like gira and hooh and if you want to hit those, knock off is a better choice.

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