1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
2. Click here to ensure that you never miss a new SmogonU video upload!

# BlissCents and SkarmCents Beta v0.1: Another set of "defense tiers"

Discussion in 'Pokémetrics' started by Dragontamer, Dec 15, 2007.

Not open for further replies.
1. ### Deck KnightEagerly awaits Sig. Move Iron HammerModerator

Joined:
May 27, 2005
Messages:
8,257
Question:

If Skarmory and Blissey are the list on which these are based, why aren't they(or at least Skarm, which generally runs 252/252) equal to 1.0 Skarm or Bliss cents in the corresponding columns?

Also, I'm having a little trouble figuring out what your 4 columns are.

Are they HP/Def(0/0), HP/SD(0/0), HP/Def(252/252), HP/SD(0/0)?
2. ### Jenigmat

Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
Messages:
769
They aren't 1 because the chart doesn't take into account Nature boosts. Because this is logarithmic, I think that the nature boost would be equivalent to adding something like, 0.089 or something. And Blissey is even more off from 1, because the 1 mark is a Bold 252 HP/252 Defense Blissey, which means that the Calm ones with 252 in Sp. Def have much better Special Sponging capabilities.
3. ### X-Actnp: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock

Joined:
Feb 17, 2006
Messages:
4,675
As jenigmat429 said, they're not 1 because the columns are 0/0Def, 252/252Def, 0/0 SpDef and 252/252 SpDef without nature boosts. This system is not logarithmic though; the original attack and defense tiers are.
4. ### Jenigmat

Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
Messages:
769
How exactly are these computed? I'd assume that they're just based off of the Attack and Defense tiers, and in that case they'd have a logarithmic growth rate, wouldn't they? Either way, though I still prefer Attack and Defense tiers for calculations and comparisons, these are really well constructed.
5. ### X-Actnp: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock

Joined:
Feb 17, 2006
Messages:
4,675
I'd assume he did the following:

For SkarmCents, he first found 416 x 334 = 138944. Then, for every Pokemon, he calculated Atk x HP / 138944.

For BlissCents, he first found 714 x 306 = 218484. Then, for every Pokemon, he calculated SpA x HP / 218484.
6. ### Time Mage

Joined:
Jul 27, 2007
Messages:
1,006
I like this, but personally, I prefer X-Act's Normalised Base Stats for quick and easy calculations and comparisons. All you need to know is the base stats of the pokémon you want to compare, and a calculator if you want to get damage percentages. Maybe it's because it was posted in Contributions & Corrections instead of in Stark Mountain, but I haven't seen anyone mention it.
7. ### Dragontamer

Joined:
Jun 9, 2007
Messages:
2,068
Aight, in preparation for topic v0.2, I'm going to leave this thread open for ~12 more hours for more comments / suggestions. Whenever I login after that, I'm going to read whatever new comments there are, integrate what I like into v0.2, and then post v0.2 and lock this topic.
8. ### Pikachu of Doom

Joined:
Dec 23, 2006
Messages:
767
I think I could probably give you a pretty heafty chunk of imput and improvements if you gave me the time.
9. ### Alienjesus

Joined:
Aug 8, 2006
Messages:
1,041
i'd rather see the 252/252 columns facotr in a defensive nature boost, if only on skarms side. this is because this is what i (and i presume most people) traditionally associate with skarm (252hp/def + impish) and it would make more sense to me to compare against that then against skarm without nature boost

bliss however, shouldnt have calm nature, as i associate its walling abilities with a bold nature.

edit: if little green yoda is right, that needs to be made clearer
10. ### Little Green Yoda

Joined:
Aug 8, 2005
Messages:
2,457
If I'm understanding this correctly, the numbers in the SkarmCents chart are relative to 252/252 +Def nature Skarm. But the Skarmory numbers listed in the chart are neglecting the nature (which is why Skarmory isn't listed as 1.0 as explained above).
11. ### Jenigmat

Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
Messages:
769
Yea, essentially. Apart from a simple tool for comparison, I can't really see how these would be helpful. I mean, using Defense and Attack Tiers can help comparison, while doing cool things like giving you really quick calcs on damage. Though, if your goal is to create a version of Defense Tiers that is much more accessible to the average person, then you have succeeded.