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Ubers Blissey (GP 2/2)
- Thread starter Minority
- Start date
Calm is better, leave Flamethrower in OO IMO, since Seismic Toss gets FAR more reliable damage and Shed Shell lets you switch whatever you want into Gengar (such as Pursuit Scizor). Leftovers should be slashed after Shed Shell.
Why don't you just shorten the checks and counters to
-bulky steels with recovery
-taunt users
-substitute users with 101+hp subs
-setup sweepers
Probably save more clutter and just listing it as follows seems more accurate as a general overview rather than listing each and every mon that falls under those categories?
-bulky steels with recovery
-taunt users
-substitute users with 101+hp subs
-setup sweepers
Probably save more clutter and just listing it as follows seems more accurate as a general overview rather than listing each and every mon that falls under those categories?
I agree with reviver
Blissey needs either flame or shed shell. I'd go with reviver's slashing just without protect and wish moved to slashed with Aroma instead. (new phazing mechanics makes wish + protect really lame. Or well, enough that soft + wish is better)
Just to make things clear, both Blissey and Chansey are bad pokemon. The are also like 99% the same exact thing with very small differences to make one better than the other. Last gen it was Chansey's extra bulk, this gen it's Blissey being able to fight with Tag.
Blissey needs either flame or shed shell. I'd go with reviver's slashing just without protect and wish moved to slashed with Aroma instead. (new phazing mechanics makes wish + protect really lame. Or well, enough that soft + wish is better)
Just to make things clear, both Blissey and Chansey are bad pokemon. The are also like 99% the same exact thing with very small differences to make one better than the other. Last gen it was Chansey's extra bulk, this gen it's Blissey being able to fight with Tag.
I'm beginning to disagree with lefties use on Blissey at all, let alone to warant flame with it. Flame on lefties Blissey can force a typical Mega Gengar to switch, but it's completely floored by other sets while wasting a move slot. I use a Perish Trapper set on a T Spikes stall team and all Blissey stupid enough to run lefties with or without flame are fodder while Shed Shell cleric sets can actually be bothersome. In short I think Sweep is right to say that typically flame is a waste of a move and still can't allow a reliable solution to Gengar. The question is, are lefties and flamethrower viable enough to deserve a slash together.
PerishTrap Gengar is a very specific and niche variant, it really shouldn't be a reason to unslash shit that is generally more useful. Flamethrower has enough perks apart from hitting Mega Gengar to put them on an even enough footing as far as general use is concerned as well. Blissey is pretty much fucked by anything it can't Toxic, anyways.
Overview
Natural Cure is important to mention, it's an excellent ability for a wall. Wish/Aromatherapy are also excellent and rare moves. Under cons it's very Taunt prone (which some big special attackers like Yveltal and MMY run) and weak (hazard fodder or set up fodder for stuff that can avoid/cure/is immune to Toxic).
Set
Also mention how Toxic cripples stuff trying to set up. You should also mention that it's quite viable to run Softboiled + Wish on a set, losing the utility of Protect but also preventing Protect abuse by setting up/Roaring Blissey (so that it doesn't heal). With these moves it can heal more reliably than it sometimes does with Wish + Protect but retains Wish passing utility.
Set Details
Calm is also really just needed (as Hack pointed out) to best absorb strong special attacks, especially when it lacks Leftovers.
Usage Tips
One mention of watching out for double switches is enough (both points about switches are pretty much saying this).
Team Options
Remove Ground Arceus (does not check either of those), Aegislash (Blissey covers its main niche decently), Jirachi (lots of redundancy), Ferrothorn (bad physical wall, questionable synergy with Blissey) ,Scarf users (most teams need them anyway and it's not that common for them to be hit with status anyway since they mostly come in to revenge kill), those set up sweepers (once they've been hit with status they probably won't be able to set up again unless they get lucky) and Ditto (if it's even viable then only on HO).
Physical walls are top priority (Lando-T, Groudon and Giratina-O are all good against a lot of physical threats and love Wish support, Giratina works too). Anti-hazard support is really important, as Blissey is affected by all entry hazards and often lacks Leftovers to mitigate it, as well as Blissey being easy to set hazards on. The main support Arceus formes are all good for this though (Water covers Ho-Oh, is a secondary Kyogre check and is a decent check to a number of physical threats although Zekrom needs to be prepared for, Fairy handles Ygod and MMX while helping with Zekrom and Ray, Rock is great for Ho-Oh/Ygod but you need a serious Fighting/Ground check) if you're not already using Giratina-O with Defog. Forry can spin and so can Excadrill (but watch the Fighting/Ground weakness with the latter). Some way to handle Specs Kyogre is needed (Palkia, Waterceus, some other soft checks can be used but they're iffy, while Grassceus doesn't have the best synergy). Calm Mind Arceus make good partners, since status is often the main way to stop them (And mons like Eleceus/Ghostceus can check or soft check some stuff that bugs Blissey too). Tanks like Tyranitar, Heatran and Klefki also make good partners since they love Wish support, and Tyranitar checks Ygod/Ho-Oh while Klefki checks Ygod and can handle subgeo (which can beat Blissey). Mega Mewtwo X is also a good partner, as it threatens prominent stallbreakers such as Gliscor, Dark Arceus and Poison Arceus.
Checks & Counters
Physical threats (add Ho-Oh, remove Terrakion, clarify that Scizor needs Superpower to threaten, replace Groudon with offensive Ground types) > Stallbreakers (Gliscor, Yveltal, CM Refresh or Poison/Steelceus, Sub sweepers, Gothitelle whatever else you come up with that qualifies) > Other Taunt users (defensive Ygod, Skarmer, Sableye, anything that usually has Taunt but isn't meant as a stallbreaker) > Spikers (Klefki gets 3 layers on any set, Skarmer can set up hazards on any set although it has to Roost a lot because Flame does ~40%, Ferro, Forry and Scoli get lots of layers on non-Flame sets) > Rest users (these wall Blissey but they don't prevent its Wish/Aroma utility)
Aromatherapy sounds much cooler than Heal Bell
QC: 1/3
Natural Cure is important to mention, it's an excellent ability for a wall. Wish/Aromatherapy are also excellent and rare moves. Under cons it's very Taunt prone (which some big special attackers like Yveltal and MMY run) and weak (hazard fodder or set up fodder for stuff that can avoid/cure/is immune to Toxic).
Set
Also mention how Toxic cripples stuff trying to set up. You should also mention that it's quite viable to run Softboiled + Wish on a set, losing the utility of Protect but also preventing Protect abuse by setting up/Roaring Blissey (so that it doesn't heal). With these moves it can heal more reliably than it sometimes does with Wish + Protect but retains Wish passing utility.
Set Details
Calm is also really just needed (as Hack pointed out) to best absorb strong special attacks, especially when it lacks Leftovers.
Usage Tips
One mention of watching out for double switches is enough (both points about switches are pretty much saying this).
Team Options
Remove Ground Arceus (does not check either of those), Aegislash (Blissey covers its main niche decently), Jirachi (lots of redundancy), Ferrothorn (bad physical wall, questionable synergy with Blissey) ,Scarf users (most teams need them anyway and it's not that common for them to be hit with status anyway since they mostly come in to revenge kill), those set up sweepers (once they've been hit with status they probably won't be able to set up again unless they get lucky) and Ditto (if it's even viable then only on HO).
Physical walls are top priority (Lando-T, Groudon and Giratina-O are all good against a lot of physical threats and love Wish support, Giratina works too). Anti-hazard support is really important, as Blissey is affected by all entry hazards and often lacks Leftovers to mitigate it, as well as Blissey being easy to set hazards on. The main support Arceus formes are all good for this though (Water covers Ho-Oh, is a secondary Kyogre check and is a decent check to a number of physical threats although Zekrom needs to be prepared for, Fairy handles Ygod and MMX while helping with Zekrom and Ray, Rock is great for Ho-Oh/Ygod but you need a serious Fighting/Ground check) if you're not already using Giratina-O with Defog. Forry can spin and so can Excadrill (but watch the Fighting/Ground weakness with the latter). Some way to handle Specs Kyogre is needed (Palkia, Waterceus, some other soft checks can be used but they're iffy, while Grassceus doesn't have the best synergy). Calm Mind Arceus make good partners, since status is often the main way to stop them (And mons like Eleceus/Ghostceus can check or soft check some stuff that bugs Blissey too). Tanks like Tyranitar, Heatran and Klefki also make good partners since they love Wish support, and Tyranitar checks Ygod/Ho-Oh while Klefki checks Ygod and can handle subgeo (which can beat Blissey). Mega Mewtwo X is also a good partner, as it threatens prominent stallbreakers such as Gliscor, Dark Arceus and Poison Arceus.
Checks & Counters
Physical threats (add Ho-Oh, remove Terrakion, clarify that Scizor needs Superpower to threaten, replace Groudon with offensive Ground types) > Stallbreakers (Gliscor, Yveltal, CM Refresh or Poison/Steelceus, Sub sweepers, Gothitelle whatever else you come up with that qualifies) > Other Taunt users (defensive Ygod, Skarmer, Sableye, anything that usually has Taunt but isn't meant as a stallbreaker) > Spikers (Klefki gets 3 layers on any set, Skarmer can set up hazards on any set although it has to Roost a lot because Flame does ~40%, Ferro, Forry and Scoli get lots of layers on non-Flame sets) > Rest users (these wall Blissey but they don't prevent its Wish/Aroma utility)
QC: 1/3
Aromatherapy is actually superior because only Smeargle gets Imprison + Aromatherapy (lol)
Disaster Area
formerly Piexplode
That is some damn useful information right there.
That will save so many people in so many situations in so many major tours.
lol
Actually what might be important is egg move compatability since iirc both are egg moves but possibly learnt from different parentmons. Idk does that merit checking out?
That will save so many people in so many situations in so many major tours.
lol
Actually what might be important is egg move compatability since iirc both are egg moves but possibly learnt from different parentmons. Idk does that merit checking out?
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Blissey cannot use both Aromatherapy and Wish on the same set. This is why Heal Bell is used, although I agree with Blue Jay that Aromatherapy is much cooler in both name, and the green color you get on move selection.
Oh and add Counter to OO, Blissey can't take too strong physical hits but sometimes people try to pressure it with stuff that doesn't OHKO (Groudon, Genesect, etc) and it can surprise KO those things for immense lulz value. The utility is pretty legitimate (you can't really attack Blissey with physical attacks that don't OHKO, making it harder to deal with), it just really doesn't have space for it.
Say, since Blissey's Speed is rather low, how about giving it a Sassy nature, a Zoom Lens, and Sing? This would bring its accuracy to about 70, same as Hypnosis in D/P, which I think is reliable enough. With a Zoom Lens, you could also give it Blizzard for about 91 accuracy.
What does that have to do with anything I said?
it's not exactly that bad considering blissey gets many chances pulling that off. however, on the teams you want to run blissey on, sleep tends to conflict with toxic and having lefties or shed shell is also better for many reasons.
Ok, so I'm really going to step into nitpicky buzzkill territory here, but lefties Blissey can actually reach a perfect Leftovers number with very little HP investment.
20 HP / 232 Def / 252 SpD Calm is the spread I have used throughout 4th and 5th gen in order to accommodate and it will probably be the only lefties bliss spread I will run in 6th gen. Sure the HP number becomes divisible by many residual damage calculations, but the 1 HP lost to these is made up for by the 1 extra HP gained from Leftovers. Set details would be a good place for this spread.
As far as Shed Shell Bliss goes, I would say put the extra 4 EVs into Speed, just because of how susceptible to residual damage this Blissey is. These 4 EVs are useless here but you don't want them to hurt Blissey's performance, which they do when placed into HP.
These are both minor changes, but I personally think they are necessary (although I'm not sure if anyone else shares this feeling)
20 HP / 232 Def / 252 SpD Calm is the spread I have used throughout 4th and 5th gen in order to accommodate and it will probably be the only lefties bliss spread I will run in 6th gen. Sure the HP number becomes divisible by many residual damage calculations, but the 1 HP lost to these is made up for by the 1 extra HP gained from Leftovers. Set details would be a good place for this spread.
As far as Shed Shell Bliss goes, I would say put the extra 4 EVs into Speed, just because of how susceptible to residual damage this Blissey is. These 4 EVs are useless here but you don't want them to hurt Blissey's performance, which they do when placed into HP.
These are both minor changes, but I personally think they are necessary (although I'm not sure if anyone else shares this feeling)
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This spread sounds like the one that should be primary for the Lefties set. I will put it in set details and change the 4 HP EVs to 4 Spe EVs since I don't know why that is still that way.
Disaster Area
formerly Piexplode
If you want a sleeper+palkia check surely that's where mega venusaur outclassed blissey in some ways?