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Bluntmons: Pokemon without STABs!

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by JayHankEdLyon, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. JayHankEdLyon

    JayHankEdLyon

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    Howdy all. I'm not gonna lie, this concept exists because I like puns. But regardless, here's an idea for a simple shift that radically changes the game to create a brand-new meta: Bluntmons!

    The shift?

    Pokemon may not use any moves which receive a STAB boost.

    Bullet Punch on Scizor? Nope. Outrage or Draco Meteor on any Dragon type? Kaput. Suddenly the offensive game is focused on the wideness of movepools, rather than the power of STABs. Typing is now primarily a defensive component, and bizarre new counters and threats emerge: Skarmory counters Fire-Types, Ghosts and Psychics can switch from Dark types without fear of Pursuit.

    Note that this meta only accounts for moves that get a power bonus: utility and fixed-damage moves are still fair game.

    The inaugural game can be seen here: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/customgame-37728155. It was impromptu, with teams designed in less than ten minutes on a whim from the chat, but already we see a blend of predictable aspects of the game with the bizarre new twists that come from a STABless battle. Bluntmons is loads of fun, and best of all, it can be played right now, provided you find an individual opponent whom you trust to follow the rules.

    So give it a try, it's a blast. Just not a very sharp one.
    Monte Cristo, The Reptile and Laga like this.
  2. Pikachuun

    Pikachuun

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    Just a question. Did you get this approved by a moderator of this forum first? While it does seem like a good idea, you need the idea approved before you can post here. If you did, put it in the post so we know, and by which moderator you got approval from. Regardless, have a nice day.
  3. Laga

    Laga Drinking is borrowing happiness from tomorrow
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    I am baffled by how creative this metagame actually is.

    You could basically say it's the opposite of STABmons, not only literally, but also because of how much more offensively paced STABmons is compared to Bluntmons. This really shuts down a lot of offensive threat (lol terrakion is so shit in this meta), whilst some pokes with diverse movepools / support pokemon can stay consistent (like Ferro, Skarm in support and Nidoking/Queen for offense.

    Probably needs a lot of playing until we can really know what's very good and what is really not that good, but if you were to set up a chatroom on either Pokemon Showdown / IRC, it would be much easier to find battles and discuss viable sets. I would check by if you did ~

    [​IMG]

    Great idea mate :]

    Edit: also, Pikachuun is right, you kinda need it approved by an OM moderator, check at #pokemon on IRC and ask for one there :]
  4. Monte Cristo

    Monte Cristo Shots fired

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    I just have to say how amazing this metagame looks. I cannot wait to go and code this for Nollan's Factory later today. I especially love how this metagame brings out strategy instead of instant win buttons like specs draco, CB technician priority moves, etc. Overall an amazing concept, I hope more people find this ^_^
  5. SpartanMalice

    SpartanMalice

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    Terrakion won't be so bad really, it still gets good moves like X-Scissor and Earthquake. But I'm liking no more BP scizor. Lack of volt turn makes trapping it harder, though.

    Stoutland seems better on paper with no technician mach punch to insta-kill it, if only it had stronger coverage moves.

    Infernape still has a wide movepool and can run mixed, like Grass Knot/Thunder Punch/Earthquake/U-turn/Hidden Power Ice although it is walled by Shedinja unless it runs Stone Edge, and by Magnezone if it doesn't run EQ. Acrobatics, Earthquake and Thunder Punch/HP Ice/Stone Edge doesn't get walled by anything though, but he'll have to forego an item.

    Also no more Iron Head Jirachi! Awesome. This meta should be fun.
  6. Arcticblast

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    Yeah, metagames need to be approved before you post them. PM me, Joim or Birkal, or ask one of us on IRC.

    (This is a cool concept though, so it won't be hard, heh)
  7. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast have one on me
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    All right, let's do this shit.
  8. Sewa

    Sewa

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    Are you going to forbid setup moves of the same type as the pokemon's?

    I mean: Bulk Up on Conkeldurr, CM on Reuniclus and such.
  9. Pikachuun

    Pikachuun

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    Bulk Up is fine, because it's a utility move. Same with Calm Mind.
  10. Mr Omgness

    Mr Omgness

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    Well all defensive pokes just got a lot stronger now that they don't need to fear powerful STAB attacks here. So Ferrothorn has another meta to terrorize :D. Scizor losing it's STABS sucks big time for it (especially U-Turn). Scizor only got Aerial Ace, Superpower and Pursuit or Night Slash as decent attacks now lol.
  11. JayHankEdLyon

    JayHankEdLyon

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    Well Ferro still has to worry about fire attacks from non-fire types. Plus no Power Whip or Gyro Ball so suddenly it's serious tauntbait (oh no still got Bulldoze though watch out world!).

    I'd imagine Gyarados would be the best "dragon-type" thanks to Outrage still having amazing neutral coverage with EQ. Poor Keldeo, though.

    There's also an odd new sort of prediction to account for. For the first time, you can see a pokemon, know its type and know exactly what moves it doesn't have, by type. Which again, intensifies the defensive game. If you're against a fighting type, a normal can switch in with a guarantee that there won't be a fighting move waiting for them. It inverts counters altogether, with the caveat that coverage moves with the same effectiveness (Bullet Punch on a fighting type for Rocks that switch in, e.g.) makes it a double-negative.

    In short strategy is all over the place.
  12. AJC

    AJC

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    man no stab attack moves really cuts down on the offensive level and makes some mons really sub par now.
  13. Mr Omgness

    Mr Omgness

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    Just played a first game and some quick ideas that worked pretty good:

    - I used a Jirachi that had the 3 Elemental Punches + Body Slam. It does decent damage, has a good chance to hit something for SE damage and can rely on Serene Grace with all attacks. It opened up a sweep for the next mon I put here. On top of that a lot of defensive mons cannot do anything against it. Ferrothorn wont wanna stay in on Fire Punch and Jellicent is 2HKOed by ThunderPunch.
    - LO Alakazam, nothing much to add here; great coverage, a combination of speed and power and Magic Guard.
    - Good luck trying to kill Porygon2 without Status.

    This meta will be quite hazard reliant because it's harder to get stuff down so any extra damage is helpful, good thing most spinners can work pretty good here anyway: Starmie has T-Bolt and Ice Beam (and Recover), Forretress only misses Gyro Ball and Donphan can drop the Earthquake for something like Knock Off & Ice Shard. Tentacruel is hurt most probably as it can't use Scald anymore.

    I actually wonder how Rain is gonna do now as Scald isnt allowed anymore on things like Politoed, Tentacruel, Jellicent, Vaporeon,... and Hurricane is now only available to Volcarona. Volcarona might probably be one of the strongest rain mons because of that. Not a lot of non-water pokes use Water moves in regular OU, that's also something to look out for.
  14. Goddess Briyella

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    I think this is a very thought-provoking idea, to say the very least. I like it.

    I'm also kinda happy to know that Keldeo, Terrakion, and dragons in general would suck in this meta lol it really gives other less appreciated mons a chance to shine, or so it would seem. ^_^
  15. Shiruba

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    Hmm, I've a question. What about moves that are of the same type as the Pokemon, but deal no direct damage? I'm guessing they are allowed?

    I'd guess yes, as they receive no boost, but just for clarification if nothing else.

    Either way, this seems really cool.
  16. Mr Omgness

    Mr Omgness

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    Venusaur in the Sun seems to deserve a shot: Earthquake and Outrage have nice coverage, only resisted by a few pokes who are all hit SE by HP Fire. Growth up and sweep away. Could run Sleep Power in a slot but you dont have the coverage anymore then. Locking into Outrage can be a bummer though.

    On top of that Sun still has quite some potent threats: Darmanitan has great coverage and power even without Flare Blitz, Heatran and Cresselia can still fulfill their supporting roles
  17. Champion Steve

    Champion Steve

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    I wonder how CM BoltBeam Latias will do, since setting up on shit just got easier. Of course, it wants both Roost and Sub in that last slot. And it can still be Roared/Whirlwinded away. And, given the boost to stall, those moves are now that much commoner.
    In other news, the lack of powerful U-turns and Pursuits could let Psychics and Ghosts do better. Like Cresselia.
  18. JayHankEdLyon

    JayHankEdLyon

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  19. tehy

    tehy

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    What happens with Night Shade and Seismic Toss?

    Either way, looking forward to this meta with my stall team and Sableye. Although i'll need to find a few new attacks, which kinda sucks. But offense being nerfed will own.
  20. JayHankEdLyon

    JayHankEdLyon

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  21. tehy

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    Yeah, sorry, i saw that but was wondering, because they're kind of a gray area, being attacks but not receiving a power boost

    Good to see you thought of it already though
  22. The Reptile

    The Reptile we're all skeletons on the inside
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    This meta seems really neat! Like others have said, this is definitely a more defensive metagame. An interesting pokemon is Lati@s on the offense. Something like

    Lati@s (M) @ Life Orb / Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt
    - Roost / Trick
    - Tailwind / Surf / HP Fire

    Still debating which one would be better for a Life Orb set. On one hand, Latias's slight bulk helps it take hits better, especially when they lack STAB. However, Latios's higher special attack compensates better for the lack of STAB here. Lati@s does MUCH better here thanks to the lack of STAB Pursuit (and maybe Pursuit all together, since I don't see Scizor being that great in this meta). Tailwind is a cool option, since BoltBeam lets it hit most of the meta for good damage. Surf is a decent coverage option for Fire-types that can take BoltBeam the best. HP Fire is because BoltBeam + Fire has great coverage as well.

    A similar pokemon is Starmie

    Starmie @ Life Orb / Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure / Analytic
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Recover / HP Ground / HP Fire

    Similar to Lati@s, except it trade bulk for a bit of speed and Rapid Spin. HP Ground is an option over Recover to nail Fire-types that think they can wall you, while HP Fire is for the same reason I suggested it on Lati@s.
  23. Adrian Marin

    Adrian Marin

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    Question, is Hidden Power considered a STAB move (e.g. HP Psychic Alakazam) it's technically a normal type move. Great metagame, i'm excited to try it out!
  24. scorpdestroyer

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    Ditto is effectively banned because all it learns is Transform
    Would you consider unbanning some Pokemon from Uber who rely on their STABs? Such as Blaziken, Excadrill, Thundurus and Tornadus-T.
  25. SpartanMalice

    SpartanMalice

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    Latios won't be afraid of a pursuit from Scizor either unless Scizor is scarfed and he isn't, as he doesn't have BP to kill it anymore. Just fire away hidden power fire at it.

    Edit: ScorpDestroyer: So is Smeargle, then. Glad to see I won't see any annoying BP teams with it anymore.

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