1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

DPP UU Boss Balance ~~~Peaked #1

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Nas, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. Nas

    Nas Thinking of a master plan...
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Site Staff Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,430
    Introduction:
    So yeah, I figured I’d post this team because it’s been my best this metagame, and it features a cool Hera set that I’d like to share with everybody before testing ends. (or starts?) So, without further ado, I present team Boss Balance:

    At a glance:
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    In-Depth:
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Venusaur (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Overgrow
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Sleep Powder
    - Leaf Storm
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Hidden Power [Flying]​

    Description: A desirable quality in a lead is the ability to start you off with the advantage, and scarf Venusaur does just that by incapacitating something on turn 1, effectively netting me the 6-5 advantage and preventing first turn entry hazards from being laid. This comes in handy against spikestacking offense teams, as it eases switching into big threats such as Moltres and Houndoom, who generally need entry hazard support to overcome their counters. Venusaur is also my safety net against a plethora of pokemon, and has saved me many times from something like a DD Gatr, Sceptile, or Rhyperior in the late game. ​

    Moveset, EVs, and Nature: With a choice scarf and max EVs in speed, Venusaur can outrun +2 Jolly Rhyperior, Modest Gorebyss and Omastar in the rain, +1 DD Feraligatr, and revenge kill all of them with Leaf Storm. Sludge Bomb provides coverage against grass types such as Leafeon and Sceptile, and Sleep Powder stops everything else. Hidden Power Flying is more filler, but it OHKOes Heracross after rocks and 2HKOes SpDef versions. ​

    Additional Notes: I’ve gone through a few different pokemon in this spot, but Venusaur is probably the one I had most success with. I originally started off with Ambipom, and although its Fake Out was useful in stopping sweeps late game, I found Venusaur could do the same thing and also stop entry hazards more reliably. If there’s one thing I miss, it’s Ambipom’s ability to trap and KO ghosts, (with the exception of Spiritomb) but I generally don’t have trouble with them anyways. ​

    ---------------
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Rotom @ Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Shadow Ball
    - Substitute
    - Pain Split ​

    Description: Rotom is a really cool mon is this metagame; it gives the team an invaluable resistance to both of Hera’s stabs, checks Scyther and Moltres, and most importantly fucks with my opponents mind if they have a Scarf Heracross. The last thing anyone will want to do is give Rotom a free sub, so they’ll usually Night Slash or Megahorn, trying to catch Rotom, and all they’ll end up doing is giving Arcanine or my own Heracross a free switch. ​

    Moveset, EVs, and Nature: This is probably my favorite Rotom set of all time. Life Orb allows Rotom to surpass many pokemon that it would normally have trouble with; most notably, Venusaur. Shadow ball 2HKOes offensive Venu after SR, and defensive Venusaur is practically non-existent in this metagame. Registeel lacking Shadow Claw can’t break Rotom’s subs in one hit, and are beaten by a combination of Thunderbolt, Substitute, and Pain Split. Chansey… is straight up useless. As with any sweeper, my general rule of thumb is max Atk / Spe with a +speed nature, and Rotom is no exception. ​

    ---------------
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Registeel @ Leftovers
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 Hp / 40 Atk / 216 SpDef
    Careful Nature (+SpDef, -SpAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Thunder Wave
    - Seismic Toss
    - Shadow Claw​

    Description: I don’t know why, but Registeel seems to be on every good team I’ve posted. This thing can just take so much abuse, it seems wrong not to use it. I won’t spend too much time explaining Registeel’s role, as it’s pretty well known by now. Set up rocks, paralyse stuff, and keep many threats in check. Registeel does it and does it well. Enough said.​

    Moveset, EVs, and Nature: Standard Regi setup. Shadow Claw is necessary because of all the Ghosts Hera attracts, and Seismic Toss hits everything else for consistent damage. I prefer Thunder Wave to Toxic for a few reasons. The primary reason is I already have Arcanine to poison Milotic and other bulky waters, so having it on Registeel would be redundant. Also, Thunder Wave puts threats such as Sceptile and Feraligatr down instantly, whereas if I poisoned them they’d still be able to do a lot of damage before poison took its toll. ​

    Additional Notes: I’m considering putting Explosion somewhere because Clefable can be a bitch if Heracross is gone, but all of Regi’s moves are essential to its success, so I don’t really know what to replace it with. Suggestions are appreciated. ​

    ---------------
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Heracross (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpDef / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Megahorn
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk ​

    Description: This. Is. The. Best. Fucking. Heracross. Set. Period. There is only one pokemon in the tier that won’t shit its pants in fear of this beast, and usually it’s lured in early and KOed/slept before BOSScross makes its entrance. For those who are slow, I’m talking about Weezing. With a bit of luck, even a full health Weezing can be 2HKOed as it comes in, as long as its taken a bit of previous damage and Sleep Talk picks an attack both turns. (CC/Megahorn deals 35% - 41.3%, so a 2hko with SR and some previous damage) Moving on, I’ve found this Heracross is way more useful than the standard orb +4 attack set, as it can actually heal itself while increasing its strength in the process, dealing huge amounts of damage with Guts + Life Orb + its base 125 Atk. It can also switch into any Venusaur set with impunity and respond with the appropriate move. If it Sludge Bombs, I can Rest it off and kick its ass, if it Sleep Powders, I still kick its ass.​

    Moveset, EVs, and Nature: Everything is quite self-explanatory. This Heracross is not meant to be a tank at all, so don’t suggest Hp EVs or Leftovers. Max attack and speed is essential to hit as hard and fast as possible, and Life Orb is necessary for Heracross to pose a threat while awake as well as asleep. While Megahorn and Close Combat don’t offer the best coverage, Hera’s sheer strength allows it to power through resistances like butter, eliminating the need for Stone Edge, Night Slash, and Facade. ​

    ---------------
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Arcanine (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 248 Hp / 232 SpDef / 28 Spe
    Careful nature
    - Flare Blitz
    - Extremespeed
    - Toxic
    - Morning Sun​

    Description: Arcanine is an integral part of this teams’ defensive core, providing the team with a very useful Fire resistance (you might have noticed my immense fire weakness at this point) and another check to Heracross. Because I’m not running SpDef Milotic, it was important that I had another reliable check to Moltres and Houndoom, and Arcanine fit the bill perfectly. ​

    Moveset, EVs, and Nature: This is the standard SpDef Arcanine with some speed to outrun Jolly Torterra. The basic idea of this set is to be able to switch into common special attackers and eliminate them. Among these are Mismagius, Moltres, Houndoom, Alakazam, and Rotom, pokemon that Registeel would normally have trouble with. ​

    ---------------
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Milotic (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Marvel Scale
    EVs: 248 Hp / 252 Def / 8 Spe
    Bold Nature
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Haze
    - Recover​

    Description: Milotic rounds out the teams’ defensive core nicely, providing an additional fire resistance and functioning as an amazing physical wall. Almost every physical threat is handled easily by Milo, with a few exceptions such as Toxicroak, Torterra, and Leafeon, who are dealt with by other means.​

    Moveset, EVs, and Nature: Physically defensive Milotic is necessary for this team since I otherwise lack a solid physical wall, and Milo’s naturally high special defense allows it to tank special attackers reasonably well anyways. The moveset is standard; Haze prevents stat boosters such as Registeel and Spiritomb setting up on me, and is generally more useful than Ice Beam because this team is heavy on grass checks.​

    ---------------

    Conclusion:
    Well that’s the team, it has been my main throughout the Heracross test (which hasn’t started yet?) and it’s been quite successful, peaking at #1 on the ladder for a short period before SU went down, and has generally been a fun team to use. All suggestions are appreciated, and I hope you enjoyed it.​
  2. Nails

    Nails EAST 2014
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,601
    Spikes (and rocks) really fuck this team up. 5 are hit by spikes, you have 1 resist and one sr weakness and 4 neutrals. The only real place to include a spinner is Blastoise over Milo, but I don't think that'd really help out your team. Maybe something to try, but I don't have confidence in it... outside that try flash fire over intimidate on Arcanine, free switches are nice when you're taking 25% by switching in. Other than those suggestions which were me trying to find something wrong with your team that might not actually be wrong, it looks really solid. Cool heracross set, grats on #1 ladder, you get a free luvdisc.

    Edit: I see no luvdisc button, but you get a luvdisc in spirit.
  3. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2008
    Messages:
    5,655
    Very solid team, amazing Heracross set.

    People often doubted how good this set was for whatever reason, and the fact is that it's definitely in the top Heracross sets, assuredly higher up than Facade Orb variants.
  4. HART4FLOON

    HART4FLOON

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2010
    Messages:
    273
    All spikers bar Drapion fear coming in on Venusaur, who can hit them either with a powerful STAB Leaf Storm or use Sleep Powder. So really spikers will probably be too scared to switch in and will get 1 layer up at most. Oh and Venusaur absorbs Toxic Spikes which is a plus.

    RT I have one word to say to you.
    Show Hide
    boss
  5. Banedon

    Banedon

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    903
    I played against this team a couple of times on ladder, I must say it's really good. I've been using a similar team which had severe weaknesses to select Pokemon. Your choices neatly fix most of them. I had problems dealing with Venusaur Leaf Storms for instance, but RestTalkLO Heracross looks like a perfect solution. The team still has its weaknesses (like the one you mentioned with Clefable if Heracross is dead; Guts Hariyama looks deadly as well especially if Stealth Rock is up), but I haven't any idea how to fix it.

    Congrats on #1 :)
  6. Nas

    Nas Thinking of a master plan...
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Site Staff Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,430
    Yeah, Spikes are annoying to face, which is why I lead with Venusaur to stop them setting up. After that, It's easier to predict when they'll come in to set up again and I can double-switch to the appropriate counter. It's not the best solution, but removing Milotic for Blastoise would hurt the team more than help, it just can't fill Milo's role good enough.

    Arcanine needs Intimidate to check physical threats, so I don't think I'll be changing that, but thanks for the suggestion.
  7. Brammi

    Brammi

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    1,769
    Can I suggest that you use Low Kick on your heracross. You lose some power but it gives it ALOT more staying power. heracross has some decent special defense. You don't want to ruin that.
  8. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,092
    its not a bulky heracross set, and will be switching a lot, so CC is he prefered option. Low kick is a tad unreliable too
  9. Banedon

    Banedon

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    903
    I just noticed you run no HP EVs on Registeel. Why?
  10. Captain Sarkasim

    Captain Sarkasim

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    9
    People instantly applaud RestTalk Hera, but when i've fought against it it dies if you hit it with ANY super effective move, it doesn't have the bulk to do an effective RestTalk set.
  11. Banedon

    Banedon

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    903
    Milotic dies to Sceptile's Leaf Storms, so don't keep it in ... similar case applies to Heracross >_<
  12. Nas

    Nas Thinking of a master plan...
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Site Staff Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,430
    That was a typo, I run 252 Hp, not 252 Def.

    You didn't read the description, did you? "This Heracross is not meant to be a tank at all"
  13. Ironic Smile

    Ironic Smile

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Messages:
    7
    If I am not mistaken HP flying makes your HP Iv go down why would you put the extra ev into def on Venusaur?
  14. Captain Sarkasim

    Captain Sarkasim

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    9
    What I mean't was that Heracross gets killed in one hit by just about anything after a CC and it is often let down by the inefficiency of Sleep Talk, also it gets walled, outspeed and killed by pretty the only only two Fire-types in UU, Moltres and Arcanine, which also both have a reliable recovery move, so people won't let them die easily.
    Also, no, I read everything.
  15. WeLuvYouMagcargo

    WeLuvYouMagcargo

    Joined:
    May 29, 2010
    Messages:
    23
    Watch out for duggies making turning your pseudo 6-5 into an actual 5-6 by switching into Venu's powder. Other than that, the team looks decently solid. I think that some faster teams could give this team real trouble, as the more members you have to sac, the less stable the team becomes whereas a dedicated offensive team can afford to trade pokes. One misread on a cs hera means a dead poke for you, which is unfortunate. This is less of a nitpick on your team though, and more of a nitpick about balance in general.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)