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Braviary (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by cosmicexplorer, Apr 10, 2011.

  1. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    [​IMG]
    Braviary
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    [OVERVIEW]
    <p>Braviary's excellent Attack stat, access to STAB Brave Bird, and Sheer Force ability, along with access to Whirlwind, gives it a niche in VGC 2011 as a powerful attacker that can also support the team. Its respectable bulk and decent Speed allow it to pose a threat to many common Pokemon, while its STAB Brave Bird allows it to OHKO most Amoonguss and do huge damage to almost anything. Braviary's relatively low Speed means that it is easily outsped and KOed by many common Pokemon, but it can still pose a severe threat with the right support.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physical Attacker
    move 1: Brave Bird
    move 2: Rock Slide
    move 3: Superpower
    move 4: Protect / Whirlwind
    nature: Adamant
    ability: Sheer Force
    item: Life Orb / Flying Gem
    evs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 28 Def / 28 SpD / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Brave Bird is an excellent STAB move, doing huge damage to a large number of common Pokemon, and allows Braviary to provide an excellent check to Amoonguss that lack a Coba Berry, easily OHKOing it. Rock Slide gives Braviary a way to hit Thundurus and Archeops for good damage, OHKOing both of them with boosts from Life Orb and Sheer Force. Superpower hits everything that resists Brave Bird and Rock Slide for huge damage, KOing or doing severe damage to most Rock- and Steel-types. The EVs grant the best overall bulk, allowing Braviary to almost always survive a Life Orb Terrakion's Rock Slide or Thundurus's Discharge, while allowing Braviary to hit as hard as possible. Life Orb gives Braviary a boost to its attacks, while Sheer Force boosts the power of Rock Slide, making it an extremely powerful attack.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>Whirlwind allows Braviary to prevent Trick Room from being set up, even against opponents with Mental Herb, but the loss of Protect really hurts Braviary, with its relatively low Speed and weaknesses to Rock Slide and Discharge. A Flying Gem is a viable option over Life Orb, as it allows Braviary to get off a very powerful Brave Bird while avoiding recoil damage from Life Orb; however, the decrease in power after using the Flying Gem generally makes Life Orb the better item. A Jolly nature with an EV spread of 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe is also an option, allowing Braviary to outspeed faster opponents, such as Krookodile and Excadrill, that do not use a boosting nature, but this significantly reduces its bulk and power. Braviary makes an excellent attacker for Tailwind teams thanks to its powerful STAB Brave Bird and its ability to stop Trick Room teams from setting up with Whirlwind. To this end, teammates such as Conkeldurr or Krookodile are recommended when not running Superpower, to deal damage to the Rock- and Steel-types that resist Brave Bird, and to avoid the Attack drop from Superpower. Tornadus may find Braviary an especially useful partner, as its Rock Slide OHKOes Thundurus, a Pokemon with which Tornadus has significant trouble. Thundurus easily OHKOes Braviary with Thunderbolt before it can make a move, so a Tailwind user such as Tornadus or Whimsicott allows Braviary to bypass this, as with Tailwind up, Braviary can outspeed and OHKO Thundurus with Rock Slide. A fast Amoonguss can also help, using Rage Powder to divert the Thunderbolt and taking advantage of Tailwind to outspeed and use Spore on the opposing team. Many Rock Slide users can outspeed and OHKO Braviary, so Thundurus with Grass Knot and Hidden Power Ice makes a good partner, KOing most Rock Slide users before they can attack.</p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>Braviary has access to Tailwind, but is generally a poor user of it because of its sub-par Speed and bulk. Mandibuzz, Tornadus, and Whimsicott are all better users of Tailwind due to their ability to set it up with priority or with vastly greater bulk. A Charti Berry can help Braviary take less damage from Rock Slide, but the extra power Life Orb provides is necessary for Braviary to do significant damage. Thrash is a very powerful STAB move, but hits a random opponent, and as such is very unreliable when looking to deal damage to a specific Pokemon. Sky Drop is banned due to a gamebreaking glitch. Hone Claws, Work Up, or Bulk Up are options to boost Braviary's Attack, but with its weakness to Rock Slide and use in Tailwind teams, it's much more effective attacking straight off. Shadow Claw allows Braviary to deal good damage to many common Trick Room users, but a neutral Brave Bird outdamages a super effective Shadow Claw, making it useless. Rain Dance or Sunny Day can allow Braviary to support a weather team, but Whimsicott or Thundurus outclass it in this role due to their ability, Prankster, which allows them to set up the weather with priority. Keen Eye is an option in the unlikely case your opponent decides to lower accuracy, but is generally inferior to Sheer Force unless Braviary does not run a move boosted by Sheer Force.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]
    <p>Thundurus OHKOes Braviary with Thunderbolt before it can do anything, but if Braviary is under Tailwind, it will outspeed and KO Thundurus with Rock Slide. Many Rock Slide users outspeed Braviary and can do severe damage to it, but must watch out for Tailwind, which will allow Braviary to outspeed and smash them with Superpower. Opposing Amoonguss with a Coba Berry can easily take a Brave Bird and use Spore on Braviary to put it to sleep.</p>
  2. NC

    NC

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    196 HP / 28 Def / 28 SpD actually maximizes its ability to take hits.
  3. justenough215

    justenough215

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    If your going to run Sheer Force why not use Slash over Crush Claw. 5 points of power vs 5 points of accuracy.
  4. Phiddlesticks

    Phiddlesticks

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    Slash doesn't get boosted by Sheer Force.

    You should probably mention that if you aren't holding Life Orb (or even if you are if you don't mind the Life Orb recoil), Return is a better STAB option than Crush Claw.
  5. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    Thanks NC, I'll check out that EV spread.

    Crush Claw has 97 base power when boosted by Sheer Force, when Return has 102. The difference is negligible, so I don't think it's worth confusing the reader unless it misses out on some vital KO or something.
  6. Fightgar

    Fightgar

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    Nice write-up dude, but I think that as a safety measure, you could mention running return/frustration and just go with keen-eye in case you get matched up with (god forbid) some who will try to lower you accuracy. I know its a stretch but you can never be too safe ;)
  7. breh

    breh
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    er.. do you really need the normal type moves?

    Just stick Superpower in slot 2 and leave it be. Choice Scarf also deserves mention.
  8. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    It's been mentioned, thanks.

    Crush Claw and Return provide solid STAB when the sometimes crippling recoil of Brave Bird is unwanted, and avoids the Attack and Defense drops of Superpower. Superpower is the second slash, and its benefits are mentioned. But the Normal-type moves are not useless at all.

    I actually haven't tried a Choice Scarf set; could you give an example of what kind of moves it would use and how it would play?

    EDIT: I added in the Dream World section.

    EDIT2: And I removed it just as fast.
  9. Alakapimp

    Alakapimp All washed up
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    5 points may not be a huge deal, but when there is no reason not to have it, it should obviously be mentioned. More so, the bigger deal is the 5% accuracy, 95% attacks suck. Personally, I would probably run Return even with the Life Orb just because of those 2 things, so you should definitely mention that everyone should run it without the Life Orb, and Life Orb isn't even the main Item option, so Crush Claw shouldn't be the main stab.

    Just ignoring the last 4 EVs would probably also confuse readers less, and would hardly make a difference. That doesn't make it a good idea. The analysis should aim to make the Pokemon as good as possible, not just be simple. I really don't like that attitude.

    After that diatribe on that, I have a couple other things. I think that Whimsicott does the whole counter TR and set Tailwind thing so much better, that this should really focus on what makes Braviary worth using, which isn't the incredible inconsistent Whirlwind. Whirlwind won't stop TR paired with either Fake Out or Anger Powder, so its really not that great. Tailwind + attacks and maybe Protect is how I think this should be.
  10. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    You're right that Return is absolutely a better choice over Crush Claw unless running Life Orb, especially because of the accuracy, which I failed to notice. I'll make those changes immediately.

    However, I fail to see how Braviary is completely outclassed by Whimsicott. Rage Powder or Fake Out can stop Whimsicott just as easily as it can stop Braviary, as long as the Trick Room user carries a Mental Herb, which is quite common. Braviary, on the other hand, can bypass Mental Herb with Whirlwind, and can OHKO most Amoonguss not carrying a Coba Berry. Whimsicott's Encore can even be switched out of, so Rage Powder or Fake Out support isn't even strictly necessary when the Trick Room user has Mental Herb, at least not against Whimsicott.

    Whirlwind allows Braviary to serve a niche separate from Whimsicott, and it really is the only thing keeping Braviary from being almost completely outclassed by Tornadus.
  11. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    I've revised the analysis to make it more of an attacker than a Tailwind set up pokemon.
  12. Alakapimp

    Alakapimp All washed up
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    I like this better, 1/2
  13. Kinneas

    Kinneas
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    ja much better

    QC Approved 2/2

    I have seen people have great success with Rock Gem Sheer Force Rock Slides. Not sure if it deserves a mention as it's a bit niche.
  14. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    I'm not sure what Rock Gem Sheer Force Rock Slide would KO that Life Orb wouldn't, as Life Orb Sheer Force Rock Slide already pretty reliably KOs the genies. While a powerful Rock Slide may be slightly unexpected from Braviary, Terrakion outclasses it for using Rock Slide, for the most part. I really don't see a reason to add it.

    Thanks for the checks, I'll get this written up.

    EDIT: OK, this is ready for GP checks.
  15. JRank

    JRank
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    Amateur GP Check
    Add/Change (comments)
    Delete
    Show Hide
  16. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    I've implemented your check. Thanks.
  17. Human

    Human

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    Return has more power than Rock Slide generally speaking getting a clearer OHKO to begin with. I don't understand why Rock Slide is being put over Return which has pretty much the same coverage other than against Chandelure. You also seemed to take out Tailwind on this pokemon.

    My recommendation is this:
    Brave Bird
    Return/Rock Slide
    Superpower/Tailwind
    Protect/Whirlwind

    Or something along these lines, but this is strange because I don't know where you want to go with this analysis at this point.

    Whoops, just reread the post and saw that you made the analysis more of an attacker, just changed the order of Tailwind/Superpower for that.
  18. Calm Pokemaster

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    [OVERVIEW]
    <p>Braviary's excellent Attack stat, access to STAB Brave Bird, and ability Sheer Force, along with access to Whirlwind, gives it a niche in VGC 2011 as a powerful attacker that can also support the team. Its respectable bulk and decent Speed allow it to pose a threat to many common VGC 2011 Pokemon, while its STAB Brave Bird allows it to OHKO most Amoonguss and do huge damage to almost anything. Braviary's relatively low Speed means that it is easily outsped and KOed by many common Pokemon, but it can still pose a severe threat with the right support.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physical Attacker
    move 1: Brave Bird
    move 2: Rock Slide
    move 3: Superpower
    move 4: Protect / Whirlwind
    nature: Adamant
    ability: Sheer Force
    item: Life Orb / Flight Gem
    evs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 28 Def / 28 SpD / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Brave Bird is an excellent STAB move, doing huge damage to a large number of common Pokemon, and allows Braviary to provide an excellent check to Amoonguss not holding a Coba Berry, easily OHKOing it. Rock Slide gives Braviary a way to hit Thundurus and Archeops for good damage, OHKOing both of them with boosts from Life Orb and Sheer Force. Superpower hits everything that resists Brave Bird and Rock Slide for huge damage, KOing or doing severe damage to most Rock- and Steel-types. The EVs provide for the best overall bulk, allowing Braviary to almost always surviving a Life Orb Terrakion's Rock Slide or a Thundurus's Discharge, while allowing Braviary to hit as hard as possible. A Life Orb gives Braviary a boost to its attacks, while Sheer Force boosts the power of Rock Slide, making it quite a powerful attack.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>Whirlwind allows Braviary to stop Trick Room from being set up, even against opponents with Mental Herb, but the loss of Protect really hurts Braviary, with its relatively low Speed and weaknesses to Rock Slide and Discharge. A Flight Gem is a viable option over Life Orb, as it allows Braviary to get off a very powerful Brave Bird, while avoiding recoil damage from Life Orb, but the decrease in power after using the Flight Gem makes Life Orb generally the better item. A Jolly nature with an EV spread of 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe is also an option, allowing Braviary to outspeed faster opponents such as Krookodile and Excadrill that do not use a boosting nature like Krookodile and Excadrill, but this significantly reduces its bulk and power. Braviary makes an excellent attacker for Tailwind teams, with its powerful STAB Brave Bird and its ability to stop Trick Room teams from setting up with Whirlwind. To this end, teammates such as Conkeldurr or Krookodile are recommended when not running Superpower, to deal damage to the Rock- and Steel-types that resist Brave Bird, and to avoid the attack drop from using Superpower. Tornadus may find Braviary an especially useful partner, as its Rock Slide OHKOes Thundurus, a Pokemon with which Tornadus has significant trouble. Thundurus easily OHKOes Braviary with Thunderbolt before it can attack, so a Tailwind user such as Tornadus or Whimsicott allows Braviary to bypass this, as with Tailwind up, Braviary can outspeed and OHKO Thundurus with Rock Slide. A fast Amoonguss can also help, using Rage Powder to divert the Thunderbolt and taking advantage of Tailwind to outspeed and use Spore on the opposing team. Many Rock Slide users can outspeed and OHKO Braviary, so Thundurus with Grass Knot and Hidden Power Ice makes a good partner, KOing most users of Rock Slide before they can attack.</p>

    [OTHER OPTIONS]
    <p>Braviary has access to Tailwind, but is generally a poor user of it, with its sub-par Speed and bulk. Mandibuzz, Tornadus, and Whimsicott are all better users of Tailwind due to their ability to set it up with priority or with vastly greater bulk. A Charti Berry can help Braviary take less damage from Rock Slide, but the extra power in Life Orb is necessary for Braviary to do significant damage. Thrash is a very powerful STAB move, but hits a random opponent, and as such is very unreliable when looking to deal damage to a specific Pokemon. Sky Drop is banned due to a gamebreaking glitch. Hone Claws, Work Up, or Bulk Up are options to boost Braviary's Attack, but with its weakness to Rock Slide and use in Tailwind teams, it's much more effective attacking straight off. Shadow Claw allows Braviary to deal some good damage to many Trick Room setup Pokemon that set up Trick Room, but a neutral Brave Bird outdamages a super effective Shadow Claw, making it usually useless. Rain Dance or Sunny Day can allow Braviary to support a weather team, but Whimsicott or Thundurus outclass it in this role due to their ability Prankster, which allows them to set up the weather with priority. Keen Eye is an option in the unlikely case your opponent decides to lower accuracy, but is generally inferior to Sheer Force unless Braviary does not run a move boosted by Sheer Force.</p>

    [CHECKS AND COUNTERS]
    <p>Thundurus OHKOes Braviary with Thunderbolt before it can do anything, but if Braviary is under Tailwind, it will outspeed and KO Thundurus with Rock Slide. Many Rock Slide users outspeed Braviary and can do severe damage to it, but must watch out for Tailwind, which will allow Braviary to outspeed and do severe damage to them. Opposing Amoonguss with a Coba Berry can easily take a Brave Bird and use Spore on Braviary to put it to sleep.</p>


    [​IMG]

    GP 1 / 2
  19. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    I've implemented the changes. Thanks a lot!
  20. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
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    GP CHECK 2/2

    additions
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    [OVERVIEW]
    <p>Braviary's excellent Attack stat, access to STAB Brave Bird, and ability Sheer Force ability, along with access to Whirlwind, gives it a niche in VGC 2011 as a powerful attacker that can also support the team. Its respectable bulk and decent Speed allow it to pose a threat to many common Pokemon, while its STAB Brave Bird allows it to OHKO most Amoonguss and do huge damage to almost anything. Braviary's relatively low Speed means that it is easily outsped and KOed by many common Pokemon, but it can still pose a severe threat with the right support.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physical Attacker
    move 1: Brave Bird
    move 2: Rock Slide
    move 3: Superpower
    move 4: Protect / Whirlwind
    nature: Adamant
    ability: Sheer Force
    item: Life Orb / Flight Gem
    evs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 28 Def / 28 SpD / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Brave Bird is an excellent STAB move, doing huge damage to a large number of common Pokemon, and allows Braviary to provide an excellent check to Amoonguss not holding a that lack Coba Berry, easily OHKOing it. Rock Slide gives Braviary a way to hit Thundurus and Archeops for good damage, OHKOing both of them with boosts from Life Orb and Sheer Force. Superpower hits everything that resists Brave Bird and Rock Slide for huge damage, KOing or doing severe damage to most Rock- and Steel-types. The EVs provide for grant the best overall bulk, allowing Braviary to almost always survive a Life Orb Terrakion's Rock Slide or a Thundurus's Discharge, while allowing Braviary to hit as hard as possible. Life Orb gives Braviary a boost to its attacks, while Sheer Force boosts the power of Rock Slide, making it quite a an extremely powerful attack.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>Whirlwind allows Braviary to stop prevent Trick Room from being set up, even against opponents with Mental Herb, but the loss of Protect really hurts Braviary, with Braviary due to its relatively low Speed and weaknesses to Rock Slide and Discharge. A Flight Gem is a viable option over Life Orb, as it allows Braviary to get off a very powerful Brave Bird, Bird while avoiding recoil damage from Life Orb, but Orb; however, the decrease in power after using the Flight Gem generally makes Life Orb generally the better item. A Jolly nature with an EV spread of 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe is also an option, allowing Braviary to outspeed faster opponents, such as Krookodile and Excadrill, that do not use a boosting nature, but this significantly reduces its bulk and power. Braviary makes an excellent attacker for Tailwind teams, with teams thanks to its powerful STAB Brave Bird and its ability to stop Trick Room teams from setting up with Whirlwind. To this end, teammates such as Conkeldurr or Krookodile are recommended when not running Superpower, to deal damage to the Rock- and Steel-types that resist Brave Bird, and to avoid the attack Attack drop from using Superpower. Tornadus may find Braviary an especially useful partner, as its Rock Slide OHKOes Thundurus, a Pokemon with which Tornadus has significant trouble. Thundurus easily OHKOes Braviary with Thunderbolt before it can attack make a move, so a Tailwind user such as Tornadus or Whimsicott allows Braviary to bypass this, as with Tailwind up, Braviary can outspeed and OHKO Thundurus with Rock Slide. A fast Amoonguss can also help, using Rage Powder to divert the Thunderbolt and taking advantage of Tailwind to outspeed and use Spore on the opposing team. Many Rock Slide users can outspeed and OHKO Braviary, so Thundurus with Grass Knot and Hidden Power Ice makes a good partner, KOing most users of Rock Slide users before they can attack.</p>

    [OTHER OPTIONS]
    <p>Braviary has access to Tailwind, but is generally a poor user of it, with it because of its sub-par Speed and bulk. Mandibuzz, Tornadus, and Whimsicott are all better users of Tailwind due to their ability to set it up with priority or with vastly greater bulk. A Charti Berry can help Braviary take less damage from Rock Slide, but the extra power in Life Orb provides is necessary for Braviary to do significant damage. Thrash is a very powerful STAB move, but hits a random opponent, and as such is very unreliable when looking to deal damage to a specific Pokemon. Sky Drop is banned due to a gamebreaking glitch. Hone Claws, Work Up, or Bulk Up are options to boost Braviary's Attack, but with its weakness to Rock Slide and use in Tailwind teams, it's much more effective attacking straight off. Shadow Claw allows Braviary to deal some good damage to many Pokemon that set up common Trick Room users, but a neutral Brave Bird outdamages a super effective Shadow Claw, making it useless. Rain Dance or Sunny Day can allow Braviary to support a weather team, but Whimsicott or Thundurus outclass it in this role due to their ability, Prankster, which allows them to set up the weather with priority. Keen Eye is an option in the unlikely case your opponent decides to lower accuracy, but is generally inferior to Sheer Force unless Braviary does not run a move boosted by Sheer Force.</p>

    [CHECKS AND COUNTERS]
    <p>Thundurus OHKOes Braviary with Thunderbolt before it can do anything, but if Braviary is under Tailwind, it will outspeed and KO Thundurus with Rock Slide. Many Rock Slide users outspeed Braviary and can do severe damage to it, but must watch out for Tailwind, which will allow Braviary to outspeed and do severe damage to them smash them with Superpower. Opposing Amoonguss with a Coba Berry can easily take a Brave Bird and use Spore on Braviary to put it to sleep.</p>


    nice job as usual.

    [​IMG]
  21. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    Thanks Snorlaxe! I enjoyed "smash them with Superpower."

    This should be done.

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