1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Break out the Salsamence!

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by AntiMetaGame, Jul 28, 2012.

  1. AntiMetaGame

    AntiMetaGame

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    306
    Hello Smogon. After being absent from BW for a couple months. I've jumped back in to this increasingly overpowered metagame. Luckily, I've had time to test out Techinician Breloom, who is currently one of my favorite pokes in the current meta. Being an aggressive bulky offensive player, I've made many teams who's purpose was to give me an advantage and slowly overtake my opponent. Here's my current BW2 team that's been doing pretty well in the meta.

    Team Building Process

    Changes in GREEN
    [​IMG]
    Being a late arriver to the 4th Gen meta, I never had a chance to really use mence to his full potential. Now he's my team's center piece. Introducing Moxie Mence!

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Steels are mence's biggest problem. Also, with Mamo being the current BW2 star who keeps the genies and dragons at bay, I needed something to keep him away as well. I didn't want Magnezone, mainly because he's not suited to my playstyle, and because he's more dead weight when his niche role is complete. I brought in my own poke, a little set I made myself: Expert Belt Jirachi.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I brought in a stealth rocker, and to fit into my bulky offense playstyle, I gave myself an ok defensive core in the form of Heatran, Gliscor, and Rotom-W

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I always have trouble choosing the last poke. I chose SubSD Terrakion for his ability to kill scizor behind a sub and as a nice offensive powerhouse.

    A Closer Look

    [​IMG]
    ⇅↺ [SIZE=+2](Rotom-Wash) @ Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 74 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split

    Rotom-W is usually a staple on all my teams. His ability to check Tornadus and rain teams is always a
    [/SIZE]necessary[SIZE=+2] factor that I look out for. Its also useful that he naturally can counter Mamo, a who is not almost everywhere in the BW2 meta. With the advent of the new BW2 genies under the effects of the powerful rain teams, I've started to spam random Hydro Pumps. Sometimes I get lucky and OHKO an unsuspecting Thundurus-T! Rotom also is needed for his ability to apply status to prominent physical threats. Usually, if possible, I will not reveal status until I use Gliscor's Toxic first. That way, my opponent thinks that my Rotom does not carry wisp. I really like Rotom-W, he's not going anywhere anytime soon and will always be around as long as rain is OU.
    [/SIZE][​IMG]
    [SIZE=+2]Pyromania (Heatran)[/SIZE][SIZE=+2]@ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 36 Spd / 218 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Toxic
    - Roar
    - Flamethrower
    A staple to all my teams. Heatran is a mega tank who by himself can check Sun teams without too much worry. Toxic is used over Protect to cripple unsuspecting Latias's and Gastrodon, both of whom my team has trouble safely breaking. Roar is there to phaze Latias (who stay in and set up) and nite (who also likes to set up on tran). I have used protect before and I love it. However, getting rid of Toxic also hurts my team just as badly. I looking for a lot of suggestions.

    [/SIZE][​IMG]
    [SIZE=+2]Bag of Tricks (Jirachi)[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]@ Expert Belt
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 100 Spd / 154 SAtk / 252 Atk
    Naive Nature
    - Iron Head
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    -
    [/SIZE]Drain Punch
    [SIZE=+2] My own creation and true to its name. I hope people put more emphasis on lures. They are game breaking and usually never seen coming. Amazing results can happen if done corretly. Most people are forgetting rachi IS a jack of all trades like Mew. The EV's are a little strange. 100 Spe is there to outspeed Jolly Mamo while 154 SpA allows me to 2HKO most just about every steel type out there. However, Scizor is gets OHKOd, and Forry (without Sturdy) is also OHKOd. Skarm gets 2HKOd to both tbolt and HP fire, but the former is there in case of bulky waters. So far I have never found a use for tbolt. For the most part, I try to feign a scarf by spamming U-turn. Doing that allows me to surprise my opponent with an HP fire. rachi's natural bulk allows him to tank weak hits, while still being ok after taking stronger hits. This creation isn't as successful as I thought he would be, but he's done a great job and surpassed my expectations. [/SIZE]Drain Punch allows me to still escape Magnezone and provide a somewhat reliable amount of recovery.
    [SIZE=+2]
    [/SIZE][​IMG]
    [SIZE=+2]Salsamence (Salamence) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Spd / 4 SAtk / 252 Atk
    Naive Nature
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast
    - Dragon Claw
    Possibly the best late game sweeper in the entire game. Bring in mence when all of your oppoenent's pokes are weakened, and BAM he gets a kill, gets a Moxie boost, and effectively can OHKO just about anything that's not a steel type. Outrage is my primary move, while Dragon Claw is another alternative. I've rarely used eq or Fire Blast, but they have had their uses. Another great thing about mence is that he's faster than the genies when scarfed (nobody uses scarfed Tornadus-T) and he already fits in well against the faster threats thanks to his scarf.
    [/SIZE][SIZE=+2]

    [/SIZE][​IMG]
    Bouquet (Roserade) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 252 HP / 136 SpD / 120 Def
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power Fire
    - Spikes
    - Rest
    Despite liking Roserade, I never had a good chance to use her in any of my teams. Now, as a 'glue' she fits in perfectly. She comes in on bulky waters with ease and as a plus, absorbs Toxic Spikes as well. She is also my status absorber and another entry hazard user. Even better, her coverage moves deter Forry and Donphan from coming in to spin my hazards away. Rest is to prolong Roserade's life. Thanks to Natural Cure, the sleep status is negated!

    [​IMG]

    Slowbro (Fixation) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Psychic
    - Slack Off
    - Ice Beam
    - Scald
    Big, bad, and incredibly derpy, Slowbro takes to the stage in Gliscor's place. He boasts great defenses and also can check the powerful dragons and Terrakion like Terrakion can. Not much to say, I love his ability and he's a great tank. He also opens up opportunities for Roserade to double switch in to lay up hazards.

    Former Members

    [​IMG]
    [SIZE=+2]Jupiter King (Gliscor)[/SIZE][SIZE=+2] @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 244 HP / 186 Def / 76 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Taunt
    - Toxic
    - Ice Fang
    - Earthquake
    Just a tank in general. He's here to stop Terrakion and nite. Taunt is there to stop steels from setting up on me while Toxic hits unsuspecting Rotom-W's and other things hoping to avoid the eq. This set is just the SD set minus the SD. If you guys want SD back, please explain why.
    [/SIZE]
    [​IMG]
    [SIZE=+2]Megiddo (Terrakion)[/SIZE][SIZE=+2]@ Rock Gem
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    Jolly Nature
    - Substitute
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    [/SIZE]
    Not my cup of tea, but incredible when successful. Due to my bulky offense play-style, I prefer CB Terrakion. However, since this guy can force tons of switches, there are many opportunities to set up a sub, SD up, and kill common counters (Gliscor and Slowbro) with a +2 Rock Gem boosted Miss Edge. Personally I want him banded, but he can cripple Scizor's behind a sub and also can provide setting up on big fat pink blobs. He's my most replaceable member. Suggestions welcome!

    Closing Comments
    Well, at the end of the day, I'm happy with this team. However, Jirachi doesn't always come through, he's situational, but not at the same time. Also, SubSD Terrakion isn't my favorite guy to use. Both are replaceable. Since mence is also a revenge killer, I use him fairly aggressively. Having a spinner could be nice, but I usually don't need one. I also lack a grass type, so Gastrodon provides trouble. Usually, I have to dance around him and other bulky waters to kill them. Currently I haven't found too many threats, its all about keeping my pokes alive and I usually do well.

    Thanks for reading!

    [/hide]
    Importable (open)
    [SIZE=+2]Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    ⇅↺ (Rotom-Wash) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 74 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split

    Pyromania (Heatran) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 36 Spd / 218 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Toxic
    - Roar
    - Flamethrower

    Bag of Tricks (Jirachi) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 100 Spd / 154 SAtk / 252 Atk
    Naive Nature
    - Iron Head
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - U-turn

    Salsamence (Salamence) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Spd / 4 SAtk / 252 Atk
    Naive Nature
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast
    - Dragon Claw

    Jupiter King (Gliscor) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 244 HP / 186 Def / 76 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Taunt
    - Toxic
    - Ice Fang
    - Earthquake

    Megiddo (Terrakion) @ Rock Gem
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    Jolly Nature
    - Substitute
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]
    [/SIZE]
  2. Jirachee

    Jirachee Kaleidoscope
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,731
    Hi

    I've used Salamence a lot lately (not just the Choice Scarf set), and I think that your current set, Choice Scarf Salamence, works much better with more Entry Hazard support. Stealth Rock is nice but it's often not enough. Salamence is fairly weak before a Moxie boost and having a row or two of Spikes combined with Stealth Rock can really help you OHKO stuff with Outrage, since 2HKOes aren't very useful for Moxie Salamence if Outrage only lasts 2 turns since you'll now have 50% chance of killing yourself with confusion. Opposing Rotom-W could also be problematic for your team seeing your only water resists are Salamence and Rotom-W, which are respectively prone to Will-O-Wisp (a burned Salamence is as good as a dead one really), and your own Rotom-W is slow so you could lose mirror matches easily there. Like you said Gastrodon could be somewhat problematic for your team as it can get in very easily against Rotom-W and from there annoy your team by spamming Scalds which could end up burning Salamence. I think that you should drop Terrakion if you don't like it, because honestly, there's no point in keeping something you feel comfortable using. I'd suggest you use Roserade instead. While Roserade may seem like a weird choice since it's not OU, it's actually very good at filling some roles. It can lay down Spikes to help Salamence, which is like I explain before, very useful. Roserade is also an amazing switch in to Rotom-W due to its Grass typing and good Special bulk, and can also switch into Gastrodon easily with its Grass typing and Natural Cure ability, to lay down Spikes or just hitting it hard with Giga Drain. It can tank an Hydro Pump which is going to be useful if you want to keep Salamence for late game, since otherwise you'll have to switch in early and it kinda ruins its purpose as a late game sweeper. Lastly, Roserade can also lure Scizor in by using Grass moves that Scizor love to switch into and strike it with Hidden Power Fire. I think this change will be extremely helpful, seeing you don't even like your current Terrakion.

    If you don't really use Thunderbolt on Jirachi you could really use Ice Punch. Ice Punch is a great move for Jirachi as it allows it to revenge kill Dragons locked into Outrage which are certainly a big threat to any team. Most Dragons will get OHKOed by it, except those like Haxorus who aren't x4 weak to Ice. It also has a nifty boosted chance of freezing the opponent (20%, that's as often as Stone Edge MISSING.) which is always unexpected and appreciated. If you don't use Thunderbolt anyway, you don't lose anything.

    Here's the Roserade you should use:
    Roserade (open)

    [​IMG] @ Leftovers
    Natural Cure
    Calm
    EVs: 252 HP / 136 SpD / 120 Spe
    -Giga Drain
    -Hidden Power Fire
    -Spikes
    -Rest


    Good luck!
  3. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,510
    Hey,

    You have a pretty solid team, which covers most threats and playstyles well, however, as you have already noticed, it has troubles with Bulky Waters, especially if they are under the rain, as Rotom-W is your only way of handling them, and Rotom-W requires being healthy in order to check pokemon usually found on Rain such as Tornadus-T. Something you could try to alleviate this problem, while not losing much offensive pressure, is using Bulky Swords Dance Breloom over Terrakion. Breloom is a good check to most rain teams generally, but it usually struggles switching in and finding time to set up due to its low defenses. However, using a bulky spread lets you take some hits from pokemon like Rotom-W while still retaining substantial power and a strong priority move on Mach Punch, as well as the always useful Spore. Here's the set:

    Breloom@Leftovers | Technician
    Adamant Nature | 240 HP / 100 Atk / 160 SpD / 8 Spe
    Spore / Bullet Seed / Mach Punch / Swords Dance


    The Attack EVs let Breloom OHKO SpDef Heatran at +2, while getting as much bulk as possible. Another option for the item would be Lum Berry, as it lets you shrug off a Scald burn, but it's up to preference.

    Good luck!
  4. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Won OST Predictions

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    998
    Hey AntiMetaGame,

    This team looks pretty solid, but I see some problems, Mamosine completely wrecks this team after rotom-W is gone and since it's the only thing that can safely switch in on Mamo... there is a huge amount of pressure on your Rotom-W which a good opponent will take advantage of and probably pull off alot of double switches causing alot of pressure. To help remedy this I suggest you run Physical Tank Slowbro over your current Gliscor set, Slowbro is still able to check both Terrakion and Dnite, toxic stall etc. and it has the added bonus of resisting water (Which helps you alot against another big threat I noticed: Sharpedo), tanking hits from Mamoswine, A reliable recovery move, and you dont need taunt because steels cant set up on you as effectively when you burn them with scald.

    I also highly suggest you take Jirachi's advice and run Roserade over Terrakion, not only does it get up important hazards and counter gastro etc, it also quad resists grass and resists fighting making it a great counter for Breloom which is another pokemon that is really problematic for this team to face.

    I hope I could be of help, GL with the team!

    Physical Tank Slowbro:
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Slowbro @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk

    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Toxic
    - Slack Off

    - Ice Beam
    - Scald
  5. AntiMetaGame

    AntiMetaGame

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    306
    Hey there, thanks for rating! One thing, Roserade happens to be my favorite 4th Gen poke, so your suggestion got priority ;).I've tried your suggestion, and I love it! Even better, Roserade is also a status absorber too! The only so far I haven't run into many problems. Sometimes I forget to set up spikes lol but so far Roserade has been doing great.

    Sorry not interested. I ran SD Techniloom before he was released (which resulted in kicks before :() and he's not that bulky. Another problem is that +2 Mach Punches are 2HKOs on what you want me to hit. There's no point to having him because I'll be dead while the opposing poke has half his health left. Currently I have a LO Hydregion weakness, but he can't safely switch in.

    Great idea, I like it. I'm currently using him and he tanks very well. In addition, his ability is probably the best thing a bulky offense player like me could ever get. He's doing great!

    --------

    So far I'm running Roserade and Slowbro over Gliscor and Terrakion. The only problem I have now is that I'm deathly weak to LO Hydregion and Conkeldurr. I'm adding Psychic to Slowbro to fix one problem, but Hydra is still a problem. Please leave any suggestions.
  6. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Won OST Predictions

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    998
    Hey AntiMetaGame,
    The simplest and easiest solution to your Hydreigon is to change Jirachi to an All Out Attacker Jirachi this means you'll be able to take out the EVs from SAtk and pump them into speed enabling you to outspeed Hydreigon. This set also lets you use Drain Punch which does (60.12% - 71.17%) to 4/0 defenses Hydreigon and (56.44% - 66.87%) to 56/0 defenses Hydreigon (Standard Sub Hydreigon) meaning it's a guarenteed 2HKO even if they have Leftovers. Admitedly this isn't the most iron clad solution to your Hydreigon problem, but it gives you a check to hydreigon without having to dramatically change your team and you said your self your current Jirachi set is replaceable

    Anyway, again GL with the team and I hope my rate helped.

    Jirachi Set:
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Atk
    Nature: Adamant (Atk, -Spe)
    - Iron Head
    - Drain Punch
    - U-Turn
    - Fire Punch / Ice Punch
  7. AntiMetaGame

    AntiMetaGame

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    306
    Good idea. I've changed U-turn for Drain Punch. It still deals with Magnezone and hurts bliss even more. Thanks!

    Great for parties!!

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)