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Breloom [Analysis]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by cartercr, Sep 21, 2011.

  1. cartercr

    cartercr

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    Breloom
    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    <p>With no Sleep Clause, and perfect accuracy in the move Spore, Breloom should be a replacement to Amoongus from last year. Breloom does sport some major flaws that Amoongus didn't have, such as poor defenses. However, with a much higher attack stat, Breloom will be well worth a spot on the team, if used correctly.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Spore
    move 1: Spore
    move 2: Drain Punch
    move 3: Seed Bomb
    move 4: Mach Punch / Protect
    item: Toxic Orb / Fighting Gem
    ability: Poison Heal
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 52 Atk / 204 Def

    [Set Comments]

    <p>This set takes advantage of some of Breloom's advantages, like Spore, and Poison Heal. Drain Punch works well with Poison Heal, and as it gets STAB, it deals a lot of damage, and recovers a lot of HP. Seed Bomb is Breloom's secondary STAB and provides coverage. Mach Punch is listed last, as it picks of threats that either of the first two attacks fails to KO. Protect may also be used in order to regain health due to Poison Heal, though.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Spore
    move 1: Seed Bomb
    move 2: Drain Punch / Mach Punch
    move 3: Spore
    move 4: Rock Slide / Protect
    item: Toxic Orb / Fighting Gem
    ability: Poison Heal
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes a slightly more offensive approach to Breloom's Spore usage. Follow Me and Rage Powder support turns this Breloom into a machine that will cause Sleep and take things out with its dual STAB in Drain Punch and Seed Bomb. Both stop things such as Taunt and Priority attacks, though if the Follow Me/Rage Powder user is Taunted, they can no longer use that move, so keep that in mind. Mach Punch is also listed, though it is generally more effective to use Drain Punch as the damage is greater, however you are able to 2HKO many of the Pokemon that you would have needed Drain Punch to OHKO. (If you have Follow Me support, then by all means, run Focus Punch.) The last move is up to the user. Protect helps with Poison heal, while Rock Slide will nail both opponents, which is a valuable tool in VGC.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p> Breloom has a nice movepool, but none of the moves are better than a particular move that is already listed. Stone Edge can be used over Rock Slide on the offensive set for more power, but it comes at the cost of not hitting both opponents. Wake Up Slap is also a possibility, if you want to hit for 120 BP, but that requires the opponent to be asleep in order to work, and so it is less effective.</p>


    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>The main thing to remember to check Breloom is that it will be putting things to sleep. Lum Berry is one of the most effective ways to check Breloom, as it will stop the sleep move, and help you to take out Breloom. Whimsicott is a nice counter to Breloom, as it is capable of hitting with priority Sleep Powder to stop Breloom. Outside of that, any flying-type move will cause major problems to Breloom.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>If Technician is released, Breloom would be able to run a couple of different sets, though generally they would remain the same. The only difference would be that Breloom could possibly pull of a Choice Band set, but generally that would defeat the purpose of using him in the first place, as Conkeldurr has a much harder hitting Mach Punch. The other change would be to make Bullet Seed instead of Seed Bomb. Outside of that, Rock Slide would get the Technician boost due to the fact that it hits for 56 BP in Double battles, making it a very deadly attack. Here is a possible set for Dream World.</p>

    QC: 0/2
  2. FearZeCrawdaunt

    FearZeCrawdaunt

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    Just being very nitpicky:
    "The Focus Sash will work to put something to sleep each match, as no one attack can knock it out."
    Watch out for Cloyster's Icicle Spear

    Also, Technician 252 ATK Ambipom using Double Hit deals average damage of 126 to Breloom's 120 HP at lvl 50. The reason this actually matters is that Ambipom could see real use with Technician Fake Out at it's side, and a great base 115 speed. And if Double Hit can deal 126 damage to a Breloom's base 80 Def, I'm sure Ambipom could be a bit more versatile.

    This is kinda covered by the emphasis on "Follow Me" support (or Rage Powder), but I'd say it'd be worth mentioning Fake Out/Taunt as big reasons why you'd want to run "Follow Me" support.

    Great analysis already :)
  3. cartercr

    cartercr

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    Thanks.

    Yeah, I think I'll change that to "The Focus Sash will help to put something to sleep each match, as no single attack can knock it out. However, do not lead with it, as leads like Ambipom and Hitmontop will beat you with Fake Out."

    Also, I will definitely list Fake Out and Taunt. (Of course Fake Out would be covered with the above change.)
  4. lucariojr

    lucariojr goodra will hunting
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    no mention of Protect/Toxic Orb/Poison Heal? I agree that Poison Heal is pretty much useless if you're using Sash or similar items, but Toxic Orb protects you from status, Sleep in particular. I'm also not sold on Grass Gem being a main slash; what exactly does it hit?
  5. cartercr

    cartercr

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    I'll test it, but I don't think that any form of stall will really work very well in VGC.
  6. lucariojr

    lucariojr goodra will hunting
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    Protect stalling is a common practice, and Protecting for free health and Toxic Orb activation is very nice. It also keeps Breloom alive against Pokemon with Acrobatics or Heat Wave.

    EDIT: Why is Focus Punch slashed? Granted, Spore MIGHT buy you time to use it, but I doubt it would be as effective as Mach Punch would be.
  7. cartercr

    cartercr

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    It is mentioned that you could use Poison Heal, but I want to test it a bit before I post the set. It's effective in singles, but I just don't know how effective it will be in doubles (which only last 7-8 turns at most.) Mach Punch is also listed in Other Options. Do you read the entire analysis, or just look at one set?
  8. lucariojr

    lucariojr goodra will hunting
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    I'm saying it should be slashed over Focus Punch.
  9. cartercr

    cartercr

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    Alright, it has been listed.
  10. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    Remove Focus Punch entirely, it's almost completely useless. Protect is incredibly useful on Breloom with its frailty and rather specific weaknesses, so put that in slot 4, with Rock Slide slashed. Toxic Orb with Poison Heal is what makes Breloom so good, and Breloom doesn't really reach any significant benchmarks with 252 Speed, so change the spread to 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe Adamant, make Toxic Orb the first slash, with Focus Sash and a faster spread in Additional Comments. Remove mentions of type-boosting gems, they're about useless on Breloom. Mach Punch is actually really good, even without Technician, so move that to Additional Comments and mention how its priority is useful and the Pokemon that it can take out before they can attack, including Weavile, Terrakion, and Excadrill. Mach Punch also 2HKOes most of the Pokemon that Sky Uppercut OHKOes, including Tyranitar and Abomasnow, so its power isn't really as atrocious as you make it sound.
  11. cartercr

    cartercr

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    Alright, the analysis has been updated.
  12. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    The order for EV spreads is always: HP / Atk / Def / SpA / SpD / Spe, according to the guidelines here.
  13. cartercr

    cartercr

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    Yeah, I knew that, not sure why I had it in that order.
  14. Huy

    Huy INSTANT BALLS
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    I think Drain Punch is worth a mention as well. While it hits slightly less hard that Sky Uppercut, I would rather not risk the 10% miss chance.
  15. muffinhead

    muffinhead b202 wifi vgc
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    order of moves should be

    move 1: Seed Bomb
    move 2: Drain Punch / Mach Punch
    move 3: Spore
    move 4: Protect / Rock Slide

    in terms of items and abilities, toxic orb should be used with poison heal and focus sash should be used with effect spore. focus sash is great on breloom for stuff like draco meteor, meteor mash, and heat wave.
  16. cartercr

    cartercr

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    I did think about a possible Drain Punch set, as that would increase its longevity. I'll go ahead and list it.
  17. Alakapimp

    Alakapimp All washed up
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    QFT. I don't know why you have parentheses saying Rock Slides bp, but you don't need that.

    Also it should be in the present tense, not "Spore is going to be one of the best moves" but "Spore is one of the best moves"
  18. cosmicexplorer

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    Drain Punch is certainly worth the slash over Sky Uppercut, but only has a 49.5% chance to OHKO 252 HP Abomasnow, which can then return an OHKO with Blizzard. Fake Out and priority support can make Drain Punch a KO, but it's important to at least mention that, since Breloom won't always have that support.
  19. cartercr

    cartercr

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    Thanks for the correction on Spore. I only listed the bp for the sake of people who wouldn't know it after the drop. I suppose I can put that in the set comments.

    I'll test it out first, but I don't think that Abomasnow is really going to be very present anyways.

    EDIT: Tested the original set and it went down pretty fast to Mienshao's HJK. Will test more later.

    EDIT: Added a Bukly Spore set.
  20. Solace

    Solace swing from the chandelier
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    imo, the better set listed here is Bulky Spore. Breloom takes advantage of good spread move resistances and access to Spore the most with that. Sky Uppercut is not a great move to me, Drain Punch is slightly weaker but gains back HP and has 100% accuracy, which is great.

    Also, the Dreamworld section doesn't need a moveset.
  21. Alakapimp

    Alakapimp All washed up
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    I'm concerned that you actually know enough about this meta to write analysis. Things like, "I'll test it out first, but I don't think that Abomasnow is really going to be very present anyways." and refusal to put Drain Punch really make me doubtful. Your inability to follow the analysis guidelines with things like a moveset in the Dreamworld section also concerns me. I'm going to give you only a small allowance of time to actually test and play and figure out what this should be, or I'm going to remove your reservations.
  22. cartercr

    cartercr

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    With all due respect, I don't see what the problem is, I like to be sure that thing will work, that's why I've been doing a lot of battling to ensure that the moveset is actually useful. While I didn't put Drain Punch in the original set, I did make a second set that is entirely devoted to its use. As for the Dreamworld set, if it's really a big deal, I'll remove it, otherwise I thought it would be useful to have, should its DW ability be released. Also, how can anyone truly know this meta. You can know the previous VGC metas, but this one will be significantly different from any previous. Since B/W has released, only the 2011 VGC could be used to judge it, and it did not involve any Pokemon from outside of B/W. You could look to the 2010 VGC, but it was an entirely different meta due to the fact that legends were allowed. The point I'm trying to make is, we don't know what will be the most threatening this year. I've battled a few people in this meta, and from what I've seen, this set has been effective, but no one can truly know what works and what doesn't until the regional championships start.
  23. muffinhead

    muffinhead b202 wifi vgc
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    global battle union has existed, people have been testing teams since black and white came out. i'm with alaka
  24. Solace

    Solace swing from the chandelier
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    there's been many ladders implemented on PO for testing in the downtime in the GBU metagame, as well as (more importantly) the actual GBU, as muffinhead said.

    These analyses really aren't supposed to be speculation, but in fact an accurate look at what moveset to expect and what moves to use when playing against or with the Pokemon it's about.

    We have the experiences from those two forms of practicing in this metagame.
  25. Alakapimp

    Alakapimp All washed up
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    Drain Punch is better than Sky Uppercut, always. Having one set with a good attack, doesn't mean you should have another one with a bad attack.

    The dreamworld section is below the sets, there literally cannot be a set there.

    GBU doubles and 2012 vgc on PO have been played extensively, the fact that you seem unaware of this shows how little you have actually tested this set. Abomasnow is probably the most used Pokemon in play.

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