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Bringing the Sunshine

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Dr. Alpha, Jan 23, 2011.

  1. Dr. Alpha

    Dr. Alpha

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    77
    Anyone remember Sunny Day and sunshine in general? You know what I'm talking about, that "other" weather, the weather that is shoved in the corner by Mr. Sandstorm and Dr. Rain alongside Hail to rot in hell. For years it has been often called "flawed" and "easily countered" by the people in the competitive environment. But now, I want to bring back the sunshine for a round in competitive play in Pokemon, and to at least give sunshine some more recognition alongside Sandstorm and Rain (Yes, I do hate Hail, deal with it).

    Sunshine at a glance is infamous for powering up Fire type moves, weakening Water-type moves, and allowing your uber powerful Skiploom to abuse SolarBeam and Chlorophyll at will, all of which I want to exploit to an extent in this team. However, I don't want to exploit it too much for the sake of type coverage, something some people don't understand yet when it comes to weather based teams. So lets begin this train wreak...

    *BRINGING THE SUNSHINE*
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Team in detail
    [​IMG]
    Ninetales @ Leftovers
    Ability: Drought (causes permanent sunshine)
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SP. ATK/ 252 SPD
    -Substitute
    -Fire Blast
    -SolarBeam
    -Nasty Plot

    This is basically the heart of the team and strategy in general, setting up Sunshine to support the whole team. However, this Ninetales is more designed to be a set up sweeper then a more traditional supporter, and surprisingly it works! I've even took down a few Chanseys using this set, something that a lot of special sweepers cannot say with a straight face. Substitute is there mostly to avoid getting inflicted with Status, make a barrier for setting up Nasty Plot, and to scout on occasion for threats. Fire Blast is the main STAB on this set, and with sunshine it does a shit ton of damage even with Ninetale's modest special attack. SolarBeam is mostly for countering bulky water types, but I may replace it with Energy ball to counter Drizzle Politoad better. Finally theres Nasty plot, which raises Ninetale's special attack to impressive levels, something that a somewhat weak Pokemon needs overall. I always try to make sure this Pokemon is always a live at all times, in case some other jerk (see also: Politoad and Tyranitar) comes along and ruins the fun.

    [​IMG]

    Espeon @ Life Orb
    Ability: Magic Mirror (reflects non-attacking moves)
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SPE/ 252 SPA/4 DEF
    -Psycho Shock
    -Hidden Power [Fighting]
    -Calm Mind
    -Baton Pass

    Espeon does what Espeons does best: Calm Mind, attack, Baton Pass, and troll the living day lights out of Supports. Espeons main role in the team is baton passing Calm Minds to whoever wants it (Notably Hydreigon or Ninetales), and countering supporters like Chansey and Ferrothorn. Of course it can go offensive too; wouldn't want to waste that great special attack, right? The main offensive moves are Psycho Shock and Hidden Power [Fighting], Psycho Shock throws off special walls and other Calm Minders (Like Suicune) and Hidden Power [Fighting] is just there for general coverage against Steel types like Heatran or Ferrothorn. All in all, an valued part of the team.

    [​IMG]
    Venusaur @ Life Orb
    Ability: Chlorophyll (doubles speed in Sun)
    Nature: Mild
    EVs: 128 HP /80 ATK/168 SP. ATK/132 SPE
    -Energy Ball
    -Earthquake
    -Growth
    -Sleep Powder

    This is probably the biggest threat on the team by far, which isn't too far off really. This Venusaur is designed to abuse its ability Chlorophyll and the new mechanics of Growth (Boosting both Offensive stats; 2+ in sun) to become a nasty Mix Sweeper. You'd be greatly surprised how a lot of people under estimate Venusaur's speed and offense in Sunlight. The main offensive moves, Earthquake and Energy Ball, provide the coverage and mixing that Venusaur needs. Energy Ball is the main special STAB, doing a large chunk to Water types, and Earthquake for handling Steel and Fire types mostly. However, Venusaur does have some problems against certain foes, notably Flying and Dragon types mostly. This where Venusaur's 4th move comes in, with Sleep Power, switching in and trying to counter becomes harder unless said Pokemon has a Lum Berry or something. Don't underestimate Venusaur, or else you'll get plowed.

    [​IMG]
    Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate (Immune to ground type moves)
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SP. ATK/ 252 SPE
    -Draco Meteor
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Fire Blast
    -U-turn

    Hyderigon is the obligatory super powerful Pseudo-legendary on the team and the Offensive Scout of the team. Hydreigon's main goal is causing huge dents to threats, Revenge killing stuff, and scouting for anything that can pose a threat thanks to the power of Choice Scarf and U-turn. Draco Meteor is the strongest move in this set, doing huge amounts of damage to anything that doesn't resist it and great for killing all sorts of stuff. Dragon Pulse is the secondary STAB used for consistence, Fire Blast hurts Steel types and is additionally boosted by sun causing a pseudo-STAB, and U-turn is used mostly for scouting ahead.

    [​IMG]
    Blaziken @ Life Orb (Enough Life Orb there buddy?)
    Ability: Speed Boost (Increases speed after every turn)
    Nature: Adament
    EVs: 252 ATK/252 SPE
    -Protect
    -Hi Jump Kick
    -Flare Blitz
    -Stone Edge

    What can I say? Game Freak really gave Blaziken the jackpot of its life by giving it the awesome Speed Boost ability (Suck it Infernape). Basically Blaziken is the Frail sweeper of the team, trying to kill everything before being killed by god-knows-what. Protect is mostly there to avoid damage and to gain a Speed Boost or two without hassle, also can be used for scouting too. But the main attraction of this set is Flare Blitz, doing an insane amount of damage when factoring Sun, STAB, and Life Orb. Even Pokemon resisting it will be ripped to shreds without hesitation. Of course having other moves to attack with is also important, such as the incredibly powerful STAB'd Hi Jump Kick doing great amounts of damage to anything and Stone Edge for good coverage alongside the Fighting STAB. Obviously I have to watch out for Priority and to an extent Bulky Water Types from ruining a sweep, but thats to be expected.

    [​IMG]
    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Ability: Iron Thorns (Causes damage if touched)
    Nature: Relaxed
    EVs: 188 HP/32 ATK/156 DEF/132 SP. DEF
    -Power Whip
    -Thunder Wave
    -Leech Seed
    -Stealth Rock

    Using Ferrothorn may sound like a dumb idea on a Sun team, but there are some niches to using Ferrothorn in a Sun team. The first niche is being able to counter other weather users like Politoad and Tyranitar (without Fire Blast) from ruining your fun, the second being able to support the other sweepers on your team, and the third being the element of surprise. Power Whip can do decent damage to just about anything not resisting it and is the main weapon against Tyranitar and Politoad. Thunder Wave cripples any sweepers that attempt to sweep, Leech Seed wears down Pokemon and is used for health both Ferrothorn and the other team mates, and Stealth rocks is... well stealth rocks.

    And thats the team. So far I had moderate success, with a fair share of wins and losses. However, the team could still use some improvements. If anyone has any ideas for this team, speak up and let me know.

    inb4 "LOL WHO THE FUCK USES A SUNNY DAY TEAM? NOOB"
  2. Benlisted

    Benlisted

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,058
    Nice Sun team there, anyone who thinks it is still a bad weather deserves for Sun teams to destroy them.

    However there are a few suggestions I'd make that may help you:

    • Swap Solarbeam out on Tales. She is simply far too valuable to risk getting locked in by TTar, Toed or Hippo as they come in, lock you into the charge turn and proceed to OHKO you. Solarbeam is an option on any other poke, but do not use it on Tales, you cannot afford to lose her. Replace with either Energy Ball, or HP Fight - allowing you to possibly beat Heatran by subbing as it comes in, and OHKO no investment TTars at +2.
    • Also try Lefties over LO - the survivability is vital, especially when using Sub. It may be worth redirecting some EVs into HP from SpAtk to enable you to take more hits. Try out WoW over NP as it enables you (with Sub) to safely cripple TTar trying to Pursuit you, and they may try it with Espy too (though it has BP).
    • I really like your Espy, my only suggestion would be to perhaps try Morning Sun somewhere to exploit the added recovery.
    • Venusaur I have to suggest trying out HP Fire over Sleep Powder, and possibly Sludge Bomb over EQ, allowing you to hit Dragons that wall you normally very hard when at +2.
    • I may put Focus Blast on Hydreigon to hit TTar, but the rest of your team may be able to handle it, and the fear of FB may keep it away from Hydrei anyway.
    • I'd seriously recommend trying a SD over SE (and maybe Blaze Kick and Wide Lens) set over your current one. It's sheer offensive power makes up for the lack of coverage very well, especially with the Sun boost.
    • For Ferrothorn perhaps try Gyro Ball as it hits TTar nicely and Venu has epic Grass moves anyway.
    Hope you'll take these into consideration - aside from the first one they're pretty much just suggestions which may help you, so try the ones you like out :).
  3. Dr. Alpha

    Dr. Alpha

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    77
    I was actually suggesting replacing Solar Beam with Energy Ball so Politaod and Tyranitar don't screw me over, but was sort of hesitant because of the drop in power. I'll make sure to replace Solar Beam as soon as possible.

    I'll give this a few tests to see if these suggestions really work, but don't quote me by heart. You see, I generally like the comfort value of setting up on a Pokemon and proceeding to sweep, so this change of pace might be good or bad depending on the situations.

    Morning Sun might sounds temping, but its hindered by other weather and Espeon isn't exactly a physical tank. Though I might try it at least a few times to eat my own words.

    Hp [Fire] might allow me to counter Ferrothorn and Skarmory better, but the potential to cripple something via sleep is very tempting. There is also the consideration of me already having a few fire type moves on the team. So I might say pass on this unless said otherwise. Also Sludge Bomb is decent for hitting Grass and Dragon types.... and nothing else. I might use SB if I feel like its necessary.

    Yea Focus Blast hitting is too iffy for my taste. Besides, Fire Blast has better accuracy and more power (thanks to sunhine) for hitting Steel types. However, I may use it for hitting Heatran specifically; that thing counters my team on too many occasions.

    The main reason I had Stone edge was to counter Pokemon like Chanedlure (Shandera), Gyarados, Dragons, and Jellicent (Burungel) better. However, I may replace Protect for sword dance, just for the sake of raw power.

    I'd rather keep Power Whip for consistent power, somewhat better type coverage, and for countering Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Politoad mostly.
  4. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    Just to clarify, an issue with EQ on Venu is that a lot of Ground weaks are now running Balloon, making it worthless. HP Fire is boosted by Sun and in general is fantastic for beating any Steel you see.

    Sludge Bomb does seem very underwhelming on paper, but Grass/Fire/Poison gets pretty great neutral coverage (which hurts at +2) and stops you having to split EVs. Without SB and running say HP Fire and EQ, you cannot hurt Mense, DNite, Lati@s or Hydreigon significantly, whereas +2 SB is almost an OHKO on most (not 100% Dnite obviously). Using EQ over SB lets you hit Shandy and Heatran however, but the latter especially's use of Balloon puts me off it as an option, especially when running two moves.

    Like I said though, most of my suggestions are only that as your team looks pretty good as is, so good luck.
  5. Byakuren

    Byakuren

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25
    You get wrecked by the most common weather team, which is sandstorm. Even at that Rain Dance too.
  6. Branduscus

    Branduscus

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Messages:
    25
    Try to abuse the sun a get some more fire types and maybe take off nattorei, it already has 4x weakness to fire and with sun its not too fun :P
  7. Jaroda

    Jaroda

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,662
    Why use Energy Ball on Venusaur when you can use Giga Drain? There's only a 5 BP difference and you recover health too to compensate for the LO. Big help there I can tell you.

    I second using Sword Dance over Protect. Far more useful, and Wide Lens plus Blaze Kick will allow you to do far more sweeping as a result and is still plenty powerful.

    I think you're going to want an Ice attack in there somewhere, especially since you can't rely on water attacks. Ground pokemon, particularly Landlos and Gliscor will be a bitch if Venusaur isn't set up in time. Gliscor can't be put to sleep, and will Acrobat you. It also walls Blaziken pretty handidly until you SD.
  8. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    @ Jaroda, sadly Giga Drain is an egg move and all DW Bulbasaur are male, making it and Chlorophyll incompatible :\.
  9. Jaroda

    Jaroda

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,662
    ...

    Giga Drain isn't a TM anymore this Gen?

    Why does GF have to make things so needlessly complicated? Just make all previously learnable moves teachable via heart scale and make our lives easier.
  10. ChaosNebula

    ChaosNebula

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    207
    You might want to hide Ninetales. First scout out if the opponent has any weather leads, then attempt to destroy it.
  11. The Main

    The Main

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2010
    Messages:
    29
    Yeah Sun team! Alright your team has alot of problems. It is VERY weak to opposing weather starters, especially Politoed and that nasty Specs Hydro Pump. You should change Espeon, whom is extremely redundant (BP sucks this gen; it sucked almost all the time), to a Weather killer, which I recommend Calm mind Virizion, or Mebukijika.

    Blaziken needs to change its nature to Jolly, as it also competes with Scarfed 80s, and most notably Doryuuzu. Not only that, change Flare Blitz to Fire Blast, to kill Skarmory more effectively and not die of recoil. Even with negative Nature and no investment is fucking painful in the Sun and STAB. OR You can simply run a set of

    Blaziken @ Life Orb
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 Hp
    Moveset: Swords Dance
    HJK
    Shadow Claw
    Protect
    Well this isn't killed by Burungeru (don't want to switch out do you?) or some random Bulky Water, except for Quagmire.

    Alright why does every Sun team has a Sazandora. Seriously what does it revenge kill. NOTHING. Run Specs Latios instead, its much more menacing under a Sun team, as a Ferrothorn switch in means Blaziken Fiesta. It also screws Porygon 2 over and over again, which you might have problems with.

    Weird Venusaur. I opt you run Sludge Bomb over Sleep Powder, as it really isn't going to hit Garchomp. Give Venusaur 220 Speed with a Modest Nature to hit stuff harder, with the moveset of Growth, Solar Beam, Sludge Bomb and HP Fire. This kills stuff. Alot of stuff. Its late at night and I can't explain much sorry.

    Ferrothorn neeeeeeeeds Spikes. SR does not hit any important threats for a Sun Team, while Spikes does. And Tyranitars run Super Power or Fire Blast just to kill you. Change the spread to Specially Defensive to fend off against it.

    Change Ninetales to Specially Defensive, as Weather Starters' metagame is all about survivability. Yeah it slows down momentum, but it pisses the opponent off more. I can't find the exact set for you, sorry. Hope the 'quick' rate helped
  12. K´Genesis

    K´Genesis

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
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    23
    Great team you put up there, bud. As a fellow Sun enthusiast, allow me to give you some suggestions that might(or not) improve your results:

    - Ninetales looks great. I´d just add Hypnosis over Substitute. I know, Hypnosis´ accuracy is shaky, at best. But everything Subs does for Tales, Hyp does better. Once Hyp hits its´ mark, at least one NP setup is guaranteed. And the chances of it becoming a sweep are much higher.

    - Espeon feels a bit out of place, although I can see it working to stop SR from hitting the field. Having said that, I´d only switch him for a Rapid Spinner, something your team needs badly. You want Ninetales hitting the field as often as possible and a 25% HP tax just for smiling to his opponent is hefty. My suggestion? Drop Ferrothorn and open up space for Forretress. You´ll still have Rocks(or Spikes), but now you have a Sturdy ´mon that Spins. In Espeon´s place, I´d suggest Solar Power Scarfzard. I promise you that he´ll bring lots of smiles to your face.

    - Sazandora...hmm...I don´t know, man. You already have sweeping power from Blaziken and Venusaur. If you decide to give SP Scarfzard a chance, you might as well give your team some defense. I´d recommend Blissey here to take Fire-type special-based hits(Heatran´s mostly) and give your team some nice Wish support.

    - Have you given Mebukijika a chance? Against other weather teams, he´s absolutely fantastic. Especially Rain, in which he puts the most common(and unprepared) teams in a check-mate position more often than not. If none of the above suggestions sounds good, I´d ask you to consider replacing a team member of your choice for Mebukijika.
  13. Dr. Alpha

    Dr. Alpha

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    77
    Two words:

    FUCK. NO.

    I have tried both Pokemon out of the suggestion, and both are utter complete failures in every way possible. Not a single kill was made, and I actually kept losing because I was using a third Grass type on my team.

    So no. Just no.

    I might try Jolly instead of Adament, considering all the raw power with Sword Dance and Life Orb anyway. But using Shadow Claw is sort of redundant considering Flare Blitz already destroys every Ghost type anyway, even Jellicent gets a huge dent despite the resistance.

    I would consider Specs Latios, if Tyranitar and Scizor didn't exist. Until then, I don't want to carry around a huge "HI I'M A HUGE (BAN ME PLEASE) PLEASE RAPE ME WITH PURSUIT LOL" sign over my head. Granted Hydreigon is weaker and slower, but it can toy with U-turn and sun boosted Fire Blasts.

    I haven't try this yet, but I might try it. Except for Sludge Bomb, that move just plain sucks even when STAB'd. I might also try HP [Ice] instead of HP [Fire] if Dragons and (to an lesser extent) Balloon Heatran annoy me enough.

    I may replace either Leech Seed for Spikes. I may also try the more specially defensive spread, just for the sake of trolling Rain Dance Teams even more.

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