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"Broken Stuff" (OU Weatherless Offense)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Tyranitarphantom, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. Tyranitarphantom

    Tyranitarphantom

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    404

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Overview

    When playing Pokemon, it is inevitable that at some point, you will come across an opponent whose team just frustrates you to no end. For me, this came a couple of months ago, when I came across a Hyper Offense team utilizing Deoxys-D. As a former UU mon, I hadn't given Deoxys-D much notice, so after being destroyed by one, I decided to try making a Hyper Offense team, with the goal of just setting up SR and Spikes, and then throwing the strongest attacks I can.

    Team Building Process
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Sitting at base 100 speed, +1 Jolly Salamence is not able to be revenge killed by Scarf Genesect. This was pretty much the entire reason I decided to center a team around a Salamence sweep. I started off with a simple Dragon Dance set.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    I decided that going a very offensive route, and who better to provide hazard support than Deoxys-D? I opted to run LO max SpA with HP Fire and Psycho Boost, so I could obliterate any Forretress/Tentacruel/Donphan foolish enough to switch in on Deoxys.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I decided that I wanted to give mixed Kyurem-B a shot. It had only recently been released into OU, and I had had a rough time playing against it thus far, so I tried using it myself.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    As an offensive team, a VolTurn core seemed like the right way to fill out the team. The simple combination of Choice Band Scizor and Specially Defensive Rotom-W is an effective way of gathering offensive momentum, as anyone could tell you.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I chose to add my personal favorite anti-meta Pokemon, I've been using it on pretty much every team since day 1 of BW2. So many teams can be easily dismantled by Mamoswine, so it's a natural choice

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Kyurem-B was great, but I needed a better way to handle opposing Steel-types. So I decided to replace Kyurem-B with CB Terrakion. It also gave my team a nice Rock resist. I also changed Salamence to a Scarf Moxie set, as DD was not a very efficient sweeper. I also opted to switch to the standard "Speedy Spiker" Deoxys-D, but still with HP Fire.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    A VolTurn core with no Spin support spells doom if I go up against other teams like my own, with Deoxys-D. So, Rotom-W was replaced with Starmie, and I chose to replace Scizor with SpD Jirachi, so that I still have an answer to Tornadus-T. Now, the team is a bit less "Hyper Offense," but it's still quite offensive.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    After testing a few changes, I've settled with this version. I absolutely love the addition of Nasty Plot Celebi, and I've gotten so many sweeps with it. A great utility, and a real step up from Starmie.

    And thus, we have the current version of the team!


    Team In-Depth

    [​IMG]
    Deoxys-Defense @ Red Card
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Magic Coat
    - Taunt

    Why this Pokemon?

    Usage isn't everything. Deoxys-D should get much more use than it does. It's ridiculously effective at setting up entry hazards, which aid Pokemon like Terrakion and Salamence, who just love to punch through everything. Taunt prevents opposing Pokemon from setting up hazards of their own, or using Deoxys-D as setup fodder. Magic Coat is a really nice move, not only reflecting Taunt and entry hazards, but potentially reflecting a crippling status move on the original user, such as Toxic on a bulky water.

    (Former set)
    Show Hide
    Deoxys-Defense @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 48 HP / 252 SAtk / 208 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Psycho Boost


    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Choice Band
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Rock Slide

    Why this Pokemon?

    Because it's Terrakion. Seriously, almost nothing can safely switch into this monstrosity. Even with only a Jolly nature (which I use so I can at least speed tie with opposing non-Scarf Terrakion and Keldeo), Choice Band Close Combat can muscle straight through almost anything it sees. For those things that it can't, Stone Edge is a secondary STAB attack. Though vastly inferior to CC, it'll still pack a punch. X-Scissor is largely filler, but if the opponent has a Celebi/Latias/Latios, and I see the switch coming, it can deal some massive hurt. Rock Slide is also filler, but it's a useful alternative to Stone Edge when I really don't want to miss, but can afford the power drop (though Rock Slide still misses way too much -_-). Nothing needs to be said about the EVs, they just make Terrakion a relentless threat.

    (Formerly Kyurem-B)
    Show Hide
    Kyurem-Black @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 120 Atk / 252 SAtk / 136 Spd
    Rash Nature
    - Outrage
    - Ice Beam
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Earth Power


    [​IMG]
    Salamence (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast/Fire Fang
    - Dragon Claw

    Why this Pokemon?

    Salamence. One of the most intimidating Pokemon you can ever face in competitive play. I chose to use Salamence because of it having 1 Base Speed higher than Genesect, therefore it couldn't be revenge killed by Genesect. The accursed metal bug is no longer around, but Salamence is just as amazing. With a Choice Scarf, it is very capable of being an effective revenge killer, and because it gets an Attack boost with every kill, a revenge kill will often lead to a sweep. Outrage is the obvious STAB move, obliterating all but the most defensive of Pokemon (and even they'll get destroyed after a Moxie boost or two). Earthquake for coverage against Steel-types, not to mention a stronger hit on some Poison, Rock, and Fire-types. Dragon Claw is a secondary STAB, while weaker, it doesn't lock Salamence in for 2-3 turns, meaning it is much less prone to getting revenge killed. I'm undecided on whether to keep Fire Blast, or switch to Fire Fang. Fire Blast is strong, but coming from a completely uninvested SpA stat, it's not hurting much without a 4x Super Effective hit. Fire Fang is much weaker, but can at least benefit from the Attack boosts.

    (Former Set)
    Show Hide
    Salamence @ Life Orb
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Fang
    - Dragon Dance


    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Psychic
    - Wish
    - Thunderbolt

    Why this Pokemon?

    Besides being my favorite Pokemon of all time (look at that adorable little guy, with his big ol' star hat!), Jirachi is my answer to many fierce special attackers, including Tornadus-T, Latios, and Alakazam. After a Calm Mind, hardly any special attackers can break through Jirachi. Wish keeps it healthy, as well as helping the rest of the team stay at a good level of health. Psychic and Thunderbolt provide great coverage, with Psychic denting Tentacruel, who is a big problem for this team. This set is superior to SpD Jirachi in keeping up offensive momentum.

    (Formerly Scizor/Specially Defensive Rachi)
    Show Hide
    Scizor @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Superpower
    - Quick Attack

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Iron Head
    - Body Slam
    - Wish
    - U-turn/Protect


    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Nasty Plot
    - Giga Drain
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Why this Pokemon?

    Nasty Plot Celebi is a huge step up from Starmie. Not only is it an excellent check to Keldeo, who would otherwise mess this team up hard, but it's amazing and blowing holes through the opposing team, and very little can take it's hits after a boost from Nasty Plot. Giga Drain is the obvious STAB, not only being fairly powerful and reliable, but netting some recovery while it's at it. Earth Power gives coverage against Fire and Steel-types, which is very handy. Hidden Power Ice offers an easy KO vs most Flying-types, and most other Grass-types. I considered Hidden Power Fire, to dent Scizor, but I need Hidden Power Ice to hurt Landorus, who is a bother to this team.

    (Formerly Rotom-W/Starmie)
    Show Hide
    Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 28 SAtk / 232 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Pain Split
    - Thunder Wave

    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Rapid Spin


    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Superpower
    - Icicle Spear

    Why this Pokemon?

    Because it's MANmoswine, simply put. Ice Shard is invaluable priority (since the removal of Scizor, it's the only priority my team has). Earthquake hits insanely hard, leaving a huge dent in anything that doesn't resist it (if not KOing them outright). Superpower is a rarely-used move for me, but it'll pick off a Ferrothorn under 80% HP, and dent a predicted Rotom-W switch in. I use Icicle Spear over Icicle Crash mainly for SubToxic Gliscor, but it's still useful for anthing that feels safe behind a Sub. Life Orb just gives it more power, without restricting it's coverage. So many teams are unprepared for Mamoswine, it's a lot of fun to just go to town with the mammoth.

    (Nothing former about this. Mamoswine is the only Pokemon that has remained unchanged since the conception of the team. That's a testament to how good Mamoswine really is. It may be the only Pokemon on the team not in S or A tier in the Viability Rankings, but it's still my MVP quite frequently.)

    So, there you have it!
    A team I've put a lot of thought into, and plenty of play time too. No team can be perfect, and I'm certain there is room for improvement, so rate away! Thanks in advance!

    (I noticed after posting this that half of my team is from Gen 3. With how few Gen 3 Pokemon are actually good in OU, this is a happy coincidence, since I love Gen 3)

    Importable
    Show Hide
    Deoxys-Defense @ Red Card
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Magic Coat
    - Taunt

    Terrakion @ Choice Band
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Rock Slide

    Salamence (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast
    - Dragon Claw

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Psychic
    - Thunderbolt
    - Wish
    - Calm Mind

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Nasty Plot
    - Giga Drain
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Mamoswine (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Superpower
    - Icicle Spear




  2. Vemane

    Vemane

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2010
    Messages:
    398
    Hi, TyranitarPhantom! Nice team you have here.
    The main issue I notice with your team is the lack of offensive pressure. Although your strong choice pokes do lend quite a bit of immediate power, there is nothing that can effectively sweep or wallbreak, something that hyper offense thrives on.

    Rather, it seems as if your team has made a transition into one less offensive than originally intended, so you can do multiple things to fix/expand upon this.

    a) If you wish to keep the offensive pressure as is, I would suggest adding a spinblocker to maintain the hazards that deoxys sets. Normally for hyper offense, one is not neccesary as there isn't time to spin since they focus on setting up and hitting. But this team will produce slightly longer battles with plenty of room for the opponent to gain the upper hand. To match the offensive nature, I recommend standard subdisable gengar. Here's the set:

    Gengar @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Substitute
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Disable

    It is fantastic for dealing with all spinners bar starmie. The general idea is to sub up, and then disable the opponent's attack, which will often be the only attack that can actually damage gengar, forcing the spinner out! It is also great for threats like banded terrakion and other choiced pokemon.

    b) If you wish to make the team a tried and true hyper offensive team, a few set changes (and playstyle changes) will need to be occur. To begin, changing salamence and terrakion to setup variants will provide far more pressure on the opponent as those that used to be able to tank them will be worn down by the hazards, making it very difficult to withstand the onslaught considering the two have very similar counters!

    Salamence (M) @ Life Orb/Lum Berry
    Trait: Moxie/Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast
    - Dragon Dance

    Terrakion @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor/Substitute
    - Swords Dance

    If you are pleased with the results from b, changing other sets to reflect more offensively may be successful.

    Good luck!
  3. Organization Member XIV

    Organization Member XIV

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    669
    This is a cool HO team you have here. However, is an issue. If Mamoswine has been dispatched of, RP Landorus can sweep your team, setting up on either Deo-D or Jirachi. While I know you will most likely preserve Mamo at all costs in the case of a Landorus, I am just stating what I see. Therefore, I suggest you endorse the set changes recommended by Vermane and replace Jirachi with Choice Scarf Latios. Jirachi kills your momentum, and Choice Scarf Latios is not OHKO'd by Landorus's HP Ice, after which Landorus gets destroyed by Draco Meteor. Hope I helped.
  4. Tyranitarphantom

    Tyranitarphantom

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    404
    Not a fan of DD Mence, but I will certainly try out SubSD Terrakion. As for Gengar, I like the idea, but where would I put it?

    You're right in that I take great care of Mamo if I see Landorus on the opposing team (or Mence/Chomp/Nite/others). I do feel like Scarf Latios will help, and I'll certainly give it a shot. Thanks!
  5. Living So Zambian

    Living So Zambian formerly VN.
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Messages:
    999
    This team looks like it really hates RP Landorus and Rotom-W. Mamoswine is your only check to Landorus and it's not exactly the most survivable Pokemon as it has to fear hazards and might have to take a hit from something in the match [possibly Landorus itself if Landy double switches into Jirachi or something]. Aside from Mamoswine, Deoxys-D and Starmie are the only members that aren't OHKO'd and you could potentially lose Deo-D in the earlyturns of the match. Starmie is taking 84.73% - 99.62% so you basically have to not let it be damaged the whole match [or let SR get up] and it obviously can't switch in. Rotom-W strikes me as another problem for this team. Starmie is the only Pokemon that really wants to take a Hydro Pump and it's weak to Volt Switch. If Rotom gets in it can basically spam Hydro Pump and you can't do much to stop it since Starmie's vulnerable to its other STAB. Jirachi is burn succeptible which could hurt it against stuff that it's supposed to beat. Mence doesn't wanna take a WoW and risks that coming in You can play around it but it really isn't going to be good for this team if it gets in. I think you could maybe remedy this by putting Celebi over Starmie and throwing Magic Coat>HP Fire on Deo-D to stop SR from going up. Celebi is a great way of beating both RP Landorus and Rotom-W. HP Ice is always a 3HKO to the Specially Defensive build and Celebi can easily come in on EPower, Focus Blast or Rock Polish. Additionally, I guess its worth mentioning that Celebi can lure in Heatran and then U-Turn out to Terrakion to get you an easy opportunity to mash shit with Close Combat.

    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 212 SDef / 44 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Perish Song
    - U-turn
    - Recover
    - Giga Drain


    Additionally I think this team would be a bit better offensively if Jirachi was scarfed and Salamence was a Dragon Dance variant. SD Scizor can cause you some problems if SR is up since BP is OHKOing Mence at +2. Scarf Jirachi can easily beat Scizor and also act as a check to many other OU Pokemon [including the ones the Specially Defensive Set takes on]. Because of this, I'll also advocate changing Salamence to a Dragon Dance variant. I feel like it's good to have a setup sweeper on this team that can get some pressure on the opponent early. DD Mence works fantastic with CB Terrakion since it absolutely exhausts the Pokemon that beat it [Hippowdon, Gliscor, etc] and with no spinner, you don't want to give free switches to Ferrothorn/Forry with the Scarfed version. I feel like DD Mence adds the much needed offensive presence of a set up sweeper to this team as you kind of lose any pressure when the opponents sends out a Pokemon that counters Mamoswine or Terrakion but with Salamence you can lure in something it beats [easy to do with Jirachi and U-Turn] and DD up then wreak havoc. Salamence, Terrakion and Mamoswine have similar counters so if you can bring out and weaken the the common counters with mence early game or vice versa, a win can be pretty easy to attain.

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SpAtk)
    - Iron Head
    - U-Turn
    - Ice Punch
    - Fire Punch


    [​IMG]

    Salamence (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Intimidate/Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast
    - Dragon Dance
  6. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Pyramid Kingis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,956
    Hey there,

    This is a rather cool HO team, but I do see ways to improve it. So starting off, opposing Water-Types look really tough to face. Scarf Keldeo nearly 6-0's you as you lack any pokemon that can really take it on, since Starmie without Recover is a very poor way to handle Scarf Keldeo. Additionally, Rotom-W looks tough to face, as Honus noted. So to help with this I would second Honus's suggestion of Celebi over Starmie, but with a slightly different set. The set I recommend is a Nasty Plot + 3 Attack set.
    set (open)

    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Earth Power

    This spread keeps up offensive momentum, much like the rest of your team, while giving you a very solid answer to Keldeo. This set gives you excellent coverage, but Hidden Power Fire can be used over Ice as Dragon-Types aren't very threatening to your team.

    So I also think that some of your movesets could be optimized. So HP Fire is cool on Deoxys-D, but without a Fire Gem and significant EV investment you can't score some crucial KO's (Scizor for example). HP Fire on its own is also slightly lackluster as you can't beat Tentacruel, another very popular spinner. So you can do one of two things here, either replace HP Fire with Thunder Wave and Leftovers with a Rocky Helmet or you can make Deoxys-D a fully offensive set. I would recommend an EV spread of of 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd with a moveset of Psycho Boost / HP Fire / Stealth Rock / Spike @ Fire Gem. This gives Deoxys-D a lot more power and the ability to heavily neuter Tentacruels who think they can spin indefinitely on you. The choice between movesets is really up to you. Now while Specially Defensive Jirachi is a great Pokemon, it seems slightly out of place on such an offensive team. I would recommend using a WishCM Jirachi over your current set. This set retains many properties of Sp Def Jirachi, while giving you a lot more offensive potential.
    set (open)

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Wish
    - Calm Mind
    - Psychic
    - Thunderbolt

    This set gives you strong Wish's like your original set, and is still a very good Latios/Tornadus-T check. The moves give you very good coverage, and Psychic is used over Psyshock to help wear down walls like Landorus-T who could wall your Terrakion. Anyways, cool team and hope I helped. GL.
  7. BlankZero

    BlankZero

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,839
    I do like this team, but I feel Deo-D could be running a much more efficient set.

    Deoxys-Defense @ Mental Herb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Skill Swap
    - Taunt

    This guy does the same thing as your Suicide Lead, but it can also serve as a fun little trump card. This guy beats all Taunt Leads, including those faster than you, as well as things like Espeon with Skill Swap, which doesn't get bounced back. You can also foil things like Scizor's Technician, Jirachi's Serene Grace, Gliscor's Poison Heal, Ferro's Iron Barbs, even things like Torn-T's Regenerator.

    I also like Honus's Choice Scarf Jirachi, but I'd trade one of the Elemental Punches with Trick to ruin Walls that will give you issues, like SubCM Jirachi, Blissey, even something weird liek Snorlax.

    Finally, I know you don't like DDMence very much, but why not try out DDNite instead? Multiscale gives you a free turn of setup basically, and DNite's massive base attack isn't something to scoff at. Follow that up with Dragon Claw/ExtremeSpeed/ and either EQ or Fire Blast depending on whether you're more worried about Heatran or Skarmory.

    Hope you have a good run with your team!
  8. Vemane

    Vemane

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2010
    Messages:
    398
    I would, personally, replace jirachi. Gengar allows you at least SOME of jirachi's ability as a pivot (due to immunities to fighting, normal, ground and 4x resist to but) while being able to spinblock and maintain offensive pressure. Jirachi, as others have mentioned, is a total kill to momentum and really is not too necessary on this team :) While scarf jirachi is nice, it often lacks power, leaving it setup bait for anything after a kill (locked into a less than ideal move).
  9. Tyranitarphantom

    Tyranitarphantom

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    404
    I've updated the team in the OP. It's better overall, mainly thanks to Nasty Plot Celebi. I tested Gengar, but while it stopped Donphan and Forretress cold, it couldn't do much to Tentacruel, who is always seen on Rain teams. Let's be real, Gengar coming in on a spinner is probably the easiest thing in the entire game to see coming, and uninvested Scald does ~80% under rain, and that's not even factoring in the fact that it always burns. Gengar can't do anything back to Tentacruel, so while I found it to be a good Pokemon, I went back to CM Jirachi.

    Now, Tentacruel is still a problem. Spinners have an easy time removing hazards, but I won't waste my time setting up a bunch of hazards if I see a spinner. Tentacruel in particular is an annoyance, as I don't have much to do to it. Even with Jirachi re-added to the team, I have a problem with Scizor. I don't have any safe switch-ins to it.

    So, any ideas as to how I can patch up these problems?
  10. Deluks917

    Deluks917 Ride on Shooting Star

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    346
    Is wish better than substitute on that Jirachi set? Without sub he cannot set on ferrothorn and other status/LS mons. Without protect he cannot reliably recover anyway. Possibly the wish is good for letting your other sweepers get in but I am sure it makes jirachi himself more threatening.
  11. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    443
    Cool HO team.But this team looks EXTREMELY weak to Scizor.CB Scizor does massive damage to the team.CB Bullet Punch revenges Terrakion,Mamoswine,Pursuit traps celebi or simply U-turns on it while it can't do anything back,Revenges Salamence after some prior damage and doesn't mind Dclaws/Outrages much,Jirachi can take a hit but fails to do anything back,while Scizor U-turns on it and eventually wins.SD sets can pretty much 6-0 this team.

    Another problem is the lack of spin blocker.Once your opponent spins your hazards away early game(some of your sweepers are spin bate,e.g. Forry easily spins on Mamo,Donphan spins on terrak,mence and Jirachi etc),you've basically have a 6-5 match up.So you need a spin blocker.

    Jellicent seems like an excellent choice on this team as it is a very good scizor check AND an effective spin blocker.Despite Jellicent's medicore SpAtk,it is has an excellent special movepool with options such as Water Spout,Shadow Ball,Ice Beam,Energy Ball etc.I suggest a Recover+3 attacks set with Max Spatk,32 spd and rest in HP with Modest nature or smogon's standard Choice Specs jellicent over a defensive one to keep up the offensive pressure.

    Also,NP Celebi is not a good sweeper on Deo-D HO teams,as they also need to pose an immediate threat.Thats why I suggest a ScarfLatios over celebi.Scarf Latios maintains Celebi's role of RPLando and Keldeo check while having a much bigger offensive presense.I suggested ScarfLatios over other variants as at the moment,ScarfKeldeo in rain is probably HO teams biggest threat.

    Along with that,I suggest changing Terrakion and Salamence's set to SubSD and DD respictively,as set up sweepers are the to Deo-D HO team's success.You stated that you are not a fan of DDMence and I can understand why.But do give it a another chance as it is this metagame's one of the most dangerous sweepers.Personally,I found running a Sub over Fire Blast on the DD set of Salamence increases set up opportunity by a lot while maximizing it's usefulness against teams packing Mamoswine,Weavile and such.So if you have trouble setting up with DDmence,give SubDD a shot.

    Good Luck and I hope i helped :)

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