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Bronzong (Placeholder)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Snorlaxe, Dec 26, 2010.

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  1. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
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    [​IMG]

    Bronzong

    ZONGGGGGG

    ----------

    [Overview]

    • awesome defensive stats on both ends make bronzong a great mixed wall
    • has tons of resistances and only one weakness
    • it can put a stop to many common pokemon, such as doryuuzu and garchomp
    • its potential as a wall is let down by its below-average HP and lack of recovery outside of rest
    • it is also somewhat set-up fodder, though hypnosis remedies this somewhat
    • despite these drawbacks, bronzong is a rock-solid wall who can take almost any attack in stride
    [SET]
    name: Tank
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Gyro Ball
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Earthquake
    move 4: Hypnosis / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Sassy
    evs: 252 HP / 84 Atk / 80 Def / 92 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    Set Comments:

    • access to stealth rock increases bronzong's utility as a wall
    • can put a full stop to most attacks
    • gyro ball is bronzong's stab move, and due to its poor speed will deal a lot of damage on many common threats
    • hidden power ice can be used to hit common pokemon such as garchomp and gliscor, while earthquake hurts doryuuzu and other steel-types
    • while inaccurate, hypnosis is useful for crippling an irritating foe. toxic can be used instead to poison opposing pokemon, and while hypnosis is arguably more potent, toxic has greater accuracy
    Additional Comments:

    • payback can be used somewhere on the set to hit ghost- and psychic-types, but most ghosts and psychics are already hit quite hard by gyro ball
    • ev spread maxes bronzong into a great mixed wall; 252 HP EVs for overall bulk, 80 def and 92 spd evs with a sassy nature ensure that bronzong has awesome defenses on both ends
    • 84 evs into attack allow bronzong to deal respectable damage with its stab gyro ball
    • speed is minimized so that gyro ball hits as hard as possible
    • levitate is by far the best option, as while heatproof is moderately useful, an immunity to ground-type moves is too good to pass up
    Teammates and Counters:

    • wish support is immeasurably helpful, allowing bronzong to stay alive for much, much longer. good teammates to provide this = vaporeon, as it resists bronzong's only weakness, fire
    • if bronzong isn't running earthquake, steel-types can come in on it all day with little to fear. to combat such pokemon, a fire-type like hihidaruma is recommended
    • since bronzong can be somewhat set-up fodder-ish, a good revenge killer should be used. scarf garchomp is especially good as it resists fire and can revenge kill a large portion of the metagame
    • a teammate to take fire-type moves is recommended, as they are really the only attacks capable of OHKOing bronzong. burungeru can take most fire-type hits with absolute ease
    [SET]
    name: Dual Screens
    move 1: Reflect
    move 2: Light Screen
    move 3: Gyro Ball
    move 4: Earthquake
    item: Light Clay
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 252 HP / 152 Atk / 8 Def / 96 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    Set Comments:

    • thanks to its multitude of resistances and natural bulk, bronzong makes a great transition pokemon capable of setting up dual screens
    • while this set lost some of its effectiveness from last gen due to explosion's reduced usability, it's still solid
    • reflect and light screen are the core of the set, supporting teammates with added defenses
    • gyro ball to hit faster threats such as terrakion
    • earthquake hits steel-types like jirachi
    Additional Comments:

    • explosion can be used to strike the opposing pokemon relatively hard and immediately bring in a teammate safely, but since its power got slashed since the last gen, it isn't as good of an option as it once was
    • the given evs allow bronzong to take on both physical and special hits equally well
    • 252 hp evs maximize overall bulk
    • 152 attack evs give bronzong a shot at ohkoing heatran and magnezone with earthquake
    • light clay increases the duration that the screens are active
    Teammates and Counters:

    • since this bronzong is essentially 100% a support pokemon, it doesn't need much team support
    • include pokemon who can set up easily with dual screen support
    • dragon dance kingdra is an excellent teammate as it can switch in on fire-type moves with tremendous ease and obtain multiple boosts
    • while already bulky, swords dance garchomp can set up infinetely more easily with dual screens
    • really any set-up sweeper benefits from screen support!
    [Team Options]

    [Optional Changes]

    [Counters]

    [Dream World]
  2. Qwertyuiop

    Qwertyuiop

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    Bronzong is a good Pokémon to set up Trick Room, so it can have a set for that imo.

    Relaxed Bronzong@Lum Berry
    Ability:Levitate
    EVs:252HP/152Atk/104SpD
    IVs:0Sp

    Trick Room
    Gyro Ball
    Stealth Rock
    Hypnosis/Reflect/Light Screen/Zen Headbutt/Explosion

    The strategy is simple, set up Trick Room, then either attack or set up Rocks. So that Taunt users don't completely counter this Bronzong, one can go with two attacks. Lead Aerodactyl is OHKO-ed with Gyro Ball, while lead Azelf is 2HKOed. Hypnosis has crap accuracy, but with the new sleep mechanic, it can effectively remove a Pokemon, while the screens are for support.
  3. PttP

    PttP Shoutout to the sidewalk for keeping me off the streets
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    I'm with the other guy on the Trick Room set but with an offensive trick room set, which is probably the first or second most effective set.

    Bronzong @ Macho Brace
    Brave
    252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Trick Room
    Gyro Ball
    Earthquake
    Hypnosis/Zen Headbutt?????????

    Yeah basically the same as last gen only with Explosion being nerfed all you really have for the last slot is Hypnosis; and Zen Headbutt doesn't really gain much other than Zapdos.
  4. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
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    i'm planning on including a trick room set anyway (it's similar to yours, though not identical)

    i've tested offensive tr zong over the course of the generation so far, and i've found it to be pretty underwhelming. while gyro ball is useful for smashing tons of fast foes, so many other pokemon simply hit way harder that i've found it to be somewhat a waste of bronzong's supporting potential. rest assured, though, there will be a mention of it in optional changes.
  5. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
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    You're not supposed to use it to sweep. You're supposed to use it as 1. a check to offensive teams, and 2. a lategame cleaner.

    1. No other pokemon can check offensive teams like Bronzong can, because stuff like Choice Scarfers are locked into one move. Faster pokemon are often really frail. Bronzong not only has an enormous bulk compared to these pokemon, but with Trick Room, he can go before all of them. I can't tell you how many Doryuuzu, Garchomp, Landlos, Skymin, Latios, Deoxys-A, and others that OTR Bronzong has checked. It's a good general glue to teams that not only need a counter to really fast pokemon, but one that can also take a few hits, and come in very easily thanks to bajillion resistances, 2 immunities, and who barely takes anything from entry hazards.

    Bronzong is also a very good check to Sun teams if he gets the Trick Room up. It's not that hard to either, since he can take random HP Fires from most things, even Sun-boosted, as long as they aren't boosted by Growth or something. Trick Room is a good weapon against Rain teams too, and Gyro Ball still does a surprisingly large amount, even against Water-types (not named Manaphy). Sandstorm teams just plain die if you can get rid of Skarmory and Nattorei.

    2. With Macho Brace on, even walls will be taking a crapload from Bronzong's Gyro Balls. When everything is slightly weakened at the end of the game, Bronzong's one of the best lategame cleaners since he can move before everything. I don't know where you're getting this idea that he can't hit hard enough, unless you've been trying to OHKO walls with it, which is incredibly stupid. He still does enough to walls to 2HKO some of the good ones. Ie. Against those Gliscor that put in enough EVs for 250 Attack and the rest in defenses, Gyro Ball is doing up to a max of 45%. While that's probably a 3HKO thanks to Poison Heal, keep in mind that this Gliscor has 354 HP and 358 Defense. Most pokemon don't have defenses that are quite as high, so they'll be getting manhandled by Gyro Ball most likely.

    Seriously, it's not that difficult to use, just make sure you have something to kill Nattorei, Skarmory, and opposing Bronzong, and you can usually do pretty well.

    As for his supporting sets being better than his offensive Trick Room set, can you explain how? All I see with supporting Bronzong is something that doesn't have any sort of recovery, and who can't hit very hard without his Macho Brace or max attack investment. Also, I see something that can only support with Stealth Rock and possibly dual screens since Explosion got severely nerfed, and Hypnosis isn't very good. Trick Room support is good too, but Dusclops and Porygon2 are much better for that, even Slowbro. Nattorei and Skarmory are much better at setting up Stealth Rock, since they can also set up Spikes and have some way of recovering their health (Roost, Leech Seed). I personally think there are better Dual Screeners too, since Bronzong can only come in and do his job once unless you have a Wisher, while things like Deoxys-D can come in and set up Screens several times. You also say yourself in the overview that it's setup fodder and a poor wall thanks low HP and lack of recovery. That doesn't sound like a good supporter to me, since being setup fodder is what got Cresselia put into BL last gen despite her awesome stats. OTR Bronzong is literally the opposite of setup fodder since nothing wants to setup under Trick Room and very few pokemon want to take a 150 BP STAB move either, or be put to sleep. It doesn't sound to me like Bronzong supports better than OTR Bronzong does his job.

    The one thing that Bronzong can do better than anything else is his Offensive Trick Room set. Rankurusu can do an offensive trick room set, but it's a special attacker, not a physical attacker. And Bronzong is the only one who gets a 150 BP, 100% accurate move (against 186 Speed or more) that can actually be used fast. Ie. He's the only one with both Trick Room and Gyro Ball.

    Seriously, OTR Bronzong is not Optional Changes material. It was one of Bronzong's best movesets in Gen 4, and even with Explosion's nerf (just put Hypnosis in its place which is just as good with new sleep mechanics), it's just as good, if not better than it used to be because of all the new fast and frail threats, not to mention weather threats. I'd personally like to see it as one of his top movesets, but at the very least, it needs to be written up as a real moveset due to the fact that it's some of the best glue to a Gen 5 team.

    Sorry for the rant, but I've used OTR Bronzong on nearly every one of my teams, so I feel I have enough experience to say that it's done pretty well.
  6. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
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    bologo, you raise some really excellent points. i suppose that the main reason i've found otr bronzong to be underwhelming is because the majority of teams that i've faced so far this gen have been more defensively-oriented, and while otr bronzong is by no means bad against defensive teams, he is more effective against offensive ones.

    well, for the most part i've found the supporting sets to be better simply because of their versatility. not only can they set up stealth rock and cripple opposing mons with hypnosis (though otr bronzong could do the latter), but they are still a great check to some of the fast threats that you previously outlined. your list consisted of doryuuzu, garchomp, landlos, skymin, latios, and deoxys-a. out of all of these pokemon, tank bronzong can check garchomp, landlos, skymin, and deoxys-a almost perfectly. it can also take on doryuuzu and latios, too. i really suppose that it all depends on what your team needs; as you pointed out, otr zong is great for teams that need a "glue" pokemon. the difference is the type of team. more offensive teams will go for otr zong, while defensive ones go for tank zong.

    your argument is very convincing, so i will gladly retest otr zong over the next few days and report back here with my results. i've spoken to other users over irc and the general consensus has been to do a set write-up for otr zong. at this point, i do plan to include it in the analysis, but i'm just going to do some last minute testing.

    thanks for your illuminating post~
  7. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    I've found Bronzong to be an excellent Rain Dance user this generation, despite Politoed's new niche on the teams. The rain removes his only weakness, and he can set it up and support the team well with Rain Dance and Stealth Rock.
  8. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
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    Because I promised Snorlaxe I'd do this before I completely stopped writing analyses, I finally got some time to write up OTR Bronzong today.

    [SET]
    Name: Offensive Trick Room
    Move 1: Trick Room
    Move 2: Gyro Ball
    Move 3: Earthquake
    Move 4: Hypnosis
    Item: Macho Brace / Life Orb
    Nature: Brave
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
    IVs: 0 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set offers a completely different take on Bronzong by abusing its unique capabilities as an offensive Pokemon. These capabilities include the bulkiness of Arnold Schwarznegger, more resistances than one can count on their hands for easy setup, and the blessed combination of Trick Room + Gyro Ball + garbage base Speed. With this, Bronzong becomes a great lategame sweeper, check to offensive teams, while still being able to support its teammates with Trick Room.</p>

    <p>Trick Room, of course, is the main move on the set. Depending on your item choice, Bronzong will be "faster" than every single Pokemon allowed in the Standard tier. It's also the move responsible for Bronzong's ability to check offensive teams. Because offensive teams often pack Pokemon with high base Speeds or Choice Scarf, these teams will be under a lot of pressure when Bronzong comes out.</p>

    <p>Gyro Ball will be your main attacking move on this set. Because of Bronzong's capability to use Gyro Ball and Trick Room with STAB, a somewhat average base 89 Attack is more than compensated for with enormous base power. A 150 base power move coupled with STAB and 100% accuracy is very dangerous even for bulky opponents. Late in the game, this can be disastrous for the opponent when their Pokemon aren't at full health.</p>

    <p>Earthquake, although weak, is only really used when you can a) get a KO without using Gyro Ball, which can save PP, or b) the opponent both resists Gyro Ball and is weak to Earthquake. The reason for this is that a fully-powered Gyro Ball is still stronger than Earthquake, even when resisted.</p>

    <p>Hypnosis is a good choice for the 4th slot, as Explosion is no longer viable, and Hypnosis lets Bronzong incapacitate a counter, often for the rest of the match. Beware of its 60% accuracy; being screwed over 40% of the time is not a joke and it can be the difference between a win and a loss.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Item choice can be a very tricky decision on this set, because both have their pros and cons. Be aware that whether you choose Macho Brace or Life Orb will be the determining factor in Gyro Ball's overall power, which of course is your main attacking move. Macho Brace reaches 150 base power against any Pokemon with 185 Speed or higher. It's more powerful than a LO Gyro Ball until you face opponents with 288 Speed or higher. LO Gyro Ball hits harder after 288 Speed and reaches 150 base power against opponents with 377 Speed or higher, at the cost of 10% per hit. It also boosts the power of Earthquake, which can secure a few more KOs that would be unreliable with Macho Brace. Macho Brace is the better option if you want Bronzong to take out a larger variety of Pokemon, as Gyro Ball is still very powerful even against slower Pokemon with Bronzong's 31 Speed. Because it reduces the amount of Pokemon that Bronzong is helpless against, while leaving Bronzong's HP alone and making Gyro Ball more reliable, Macho Brace is the recommended option. However, if you really need Bronzong to take out bulky Choice Scarf users, Life Orb can be a worthwhile option.</p>

    <p>It should be noted that this Bronzong is a very good check to any kind of offensive weather team. While it may seem like this doesn't apply to Rain teams, keep in mind that many of the abusers still take a lot of damage from Gyro Ball, and that Trick Room in general just ruins the Swift Swimmers. This is also one of the best switch-ins to Choiced Dragon attacks because Bronzong not only resists them, but he can turn the opponent's momentum against them and force a lot of pressure on the opponent.</p>

    <p>One important thing about this Bronzong is that it's not the Trick Room Supporter Bronzong. Therefore, you don't need to only use this Bronzong on a pure Trick Room team. This means that you don't need to pack a team of ridiculously slow Pokemon that all have 0 Speed IVs an d a reducing nature. Remember that this Bronzong's main job is to be a lategame sweeper and a check to offensive Pokemon, not a supporter. If it just so happens to help one of your Pokemon with Trick Room after it's dead, then that's fine, but that's not its main job. Just be careful when you use Trick Room and count the turns, and you most likely won't cripple your team. Just as a note, don't use paralysis support on the same team as this Bronzong. It seems like common sense, but just remember that if something is paralyzed, it means that Gyro Ball will have terrible damage output against them.</p>

    <p>The main team support that this Bronzong wants is entry hazard support. Stealth Rock and Spikes can make a lategame cleaning much easier, and it helps Bronzong nab some OHKOs that it wouldn't have gotten otherwise. A Pokemon to take out Nattorei, opposing Bronzong, Swampert, and 252 HP/252 Def Impish Poison Heal Gliscor is a really good idea, because those Pokemon can make Bronzong's day miserable. Balloon Heatran with Hidden Power Grass can take out every one of them. A teammate such as Latias, Latios, Sazandora, or Kingdra can work well too, because they not only resist Fire, but their Draco Meteors also help to take out some very annoying Pokemon such as Burungeru and Zapdos, which both have recovery and resist Gyro Ball. Bronzong will also appreciate Wish support, although it isn't mandatory by any means. Because of Bronzong's lower base HP, Wishes from Pokemon with high HP will bring Bronzong very close to full health, or in the case of Chansey and Blissey, heal him fully. This can be useful because Bronzong can pressure the opponent again with Trick Room, Gyro Ball, and Hypnosis. It should also be noted that this Bronzong is possibly one of the best receivers of a CursePass in the game, because CursePassing to this Bronzong is like passing physical Butterfly Dances that also strengthen his main STAB. Bronzong's Gyro Ball will hit like a train after a Curse or two, even against resistors.</p>

    --

    Sorry Snorlaxe, but I didn't revise my grammar mistakes, so there might be some in there. Also, my Team Options part in the Additional Comments may look kind of broad, but Bronzong really doesn't need much support besides hazards and a teammate or two to take out slow-resistors to Gyro Ball. Generally I've found that it's not the best idea to build a team around OTR Bronzong, but to instead let him be the glue that your team needs.
  9. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
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    thanks a ton bologo. i plan on revising it (though no content changes, as the whole reason i asked you to write this is because of your content experience with the set!), then adding it to the analysis. it is currently quite long, so i'll likely try to concise it, though nothing too major. again, thanks a ton man. i really appreciate it ^_^
  10. BubaOReally?

    BubaOReally?

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    Hmmm, maybe gravity support?

    Name: Gravy on my Zong?
    Move 1: Gravity
    Move 2: Gyro Ball
    Move 3: Earthquake
    Move 4: Hypnosis
    Item: Life Orb
    Nature: Brave
    Ability: Heatproof (because he will be on the ground with gravity, if you still want levitate that's cool too.)
    EVs: ???? (maybe max attack and hp?)
    IVs: 0 Spe

    He can not abuse it like other pokemon, but a boosted accuracy Hypnosis is really nice. It also brings Pokemon like Skarmory and Gengar down so you can hit them with Earthquake. It also voids Balloon Doryuuzu.
  11. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
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    i'm locking and moving this, as another user has taken it over (with my permission, of course!).

    the new thread can be found here
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