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Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Red~Rum, May 25, 2010.
Here's my team I made a while ago. But now that Latias is uber I need some help. So please rate!
I would suggest a small set change on Dragonite. I would try superpower over EQ, and 24 speed Evs at the expense of Attack. This will let you OHKO Heatran and Tyranitar leads, as well as Blissey later in the game. The speed will allow you to outrun almost all Metagross leads, though a little more speed can be added for extra insurance.
Metagross should run Zen Headbutt over Thunderpunch, as this offers good neutral coverage againt Rotom, Swampert, Zapdos and Gyarados among others. I would also suggest that you run 196 speed Evs to outrun Scarf Rotom-A after an Agility, since Scarf Rotom is a very common Agiligross switch-in which could also give your team some serious trouble.
Obviously we need to find a replacement for Latias. I was never quite sure how well that Latias fitted into your team in the first place, so I think we shouldn't necessarily be looking for a like-for-like replacement. Your team is is need of a decent counter to opposing Gyarados. Though you wouldn't much appreciate the electric weakness, a defensive Rapid Spinner Starmie could fit in quite well, helping to check Infernape and Bulky Gyarados, whilst supporting Dragonite and Gyarados in particular with rapid spin.
I think you should chuck Swampert's 4 attack Evs into speed, since this could be very important in a Roar war against another Swampert. 8 speed could even be considered, taking the evs out of defence.
All but the Starmie suggestion I like due to the electric weakness. I had Latias in mainly for its defensive ability and it was able to fit in good with most of my team.
Hi, got your PM.
Bulky offense is cool, but one of the most important parts of it is supporting each member properly. As you noted, Latias is banned, so something has to be done there as well. Dragonite seems to be the star of the show here, starting things off by putting the hurt into lots of things. I like that, so I'll work around keeping him there. I have a few suggestions elsewhere, though, that I feel will help the main goal of the team, so hear them out!
First, your team lacks a really effective switch-in to Rotom-A, specifically Rotom-H/C, which can run through most of your team and burn the rest. You also really don't support SDScizor all that well with your team by having nothing that can capitalize on the things that force it out. Sub+LO Heatran will give you a lot of trouble as well, since it tends to carry either HPGrass or HPElectric specifically for Swampert/Gyara respectively.
I suggest a Choice Band Scizor over your current SD Scizor for a few reasons:
Can pursuit-KO Scarfed Rotom-A with ease
Powerful U-turns that can give free switch-ins to other things and soften counters a bit
Can handle your serious DDMence weakness if Swampert is weakened by using CB Bullet Punch
Gives you some immediate power, so you don't have to setup with 4/6 of your Pokemon to do well
Run the following set:
Scizor @ Choice Band
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
~ Bullet Punch
Also, in place of Latias, I want to suggest Standard Rotom-C for a few reasons:
Can beat Swampert with ease, who will give many of your sweepers a tough time
Can burn Tyranitar, who with a Scarf will generally frustrate your team (Can burn other things too, which is nice, and isn't setup bait because of it)
Swampert and Scizor have excellent synergy with Rotom-C, being able to take out many of the things that try to switch into it
Rotom-A is no slouch in attacking with its Thunderbolt or Shadow Ball
Rotom-C discourages things setting up on it because of its Will-O-Wisp
Retains the ground immunity that Latias provided, as well as giving you another Scizor switch-in
Gives you another solid electric resistance for your team
Use the following set if you want to use Rotom-C:
Rotom-C @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe
~ Shadow Ball
~ Leaf Storm
If you choose to run Rotom-C, it will probably be worth it to use Ice Punch on Metagross over Thunderpunch, since Rotom-C will be an excellent switch-in to any Gyarados that come against your Metagross.
Anyway, give these suggestions a try, I think they'll do your team well. Good luck!
Rotom-C can't be used?
You never specified in the first post that this was a wifi team; you should do that. There's not much else that checks the same things that Rotom-C does... You could really use a few things from that slot:
Reasonable secondary Scizor switch-in
Beat some annoying bulky waters
Secondary electric resistance
It'd be nice if it checked Heatran too
The only other Pokemon that can remotely handle those things without being Latias, who is banned, or Rotom-A is a Specially Defensive Zapdos with Hidden Power Grass. He's, unfortunately, weak to Stealth Rock, but he's a great Pokemon that will check a lot of threats while being generally hard to setup on. Zapdos also pairs excellently with Scizor and Metagross, so this should work out fairly well. And while he's neutral to Electric-type attacks, a specially defensive set keeps him from being 2HKOed by most. Try the following set:
Zapdos @ Leftovers
EVs: 248 HP / 228 SpD / 32 Spe
~ Heat Wave
~ Hidden Power Grass
If you use this, you should definitely use the Choice Band Scizor I suggested in my last post, since things like Salamence might be gutsy and try to setup on you. Good luck!
I got your VM, but I guess the problems been solved.
Yeah, to be honest, I agree because the only possible relation to Rotom-C is pretty much Zapdos, except it has more weaknesses related to Rotom-C, but Zapdos also contains Rotom-C's main type attacks; Eletric-, Grass-, and Fire-. So Zapdos still has coverage to help protect against opposing Gyarados and Zapdos also compliments swampert from the likes of Celebi, but your team seems to already cover that problem. There's not much to rate but to also go for CB Scizor that Rising_Dusk has already suggesting because it packs much bigger power and with this set, as you're U-turning, your teammates may switch into things that may be counter such as Heatran where as gyarados just comes in and scare it away with Dragon Dance only or Waterfall. Your team has some nice type synergy as well, anyways, good luck.
Zapdos does cover some things I do need but it also brings upon a problem that I can't afford another weakness to rock attacks and stealth rocks.
I was thinking about suggesting you another, but I wanted to see what your reply would be. So here goes:
Flygon (M) @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Stone Edge
It takes Heatran, It revenge kills any Salamence that isn't running 252 Speed EVs with +1 Dragon Dance (speed tie,) it's immune to Ground- attacks, it's immune to Electric- attacks, and it's not weak to Stealth Rock.
Another reason I suggested Scarf Flygon is with CB Scizor and its U-turn, both of these choiced U-turners are able to scout a lot and since some of your pokemons can come in and take some hits and counter some of those threats. Flygon is a good choice because it's also a fast U-turn user and has the speed to revenge kill major threats naming Salamence and Scarf Heatran.
I left Stone edge in there to kill weakened Gyarados that already have +1 DD as another way to revenge kill. Outrage is for it's main STAB, Earthquake as a secondary STAB and to hit those who resist Dragon- attacks. U-turn for the obvious scout which works so great along side CB Scizor.
Try this suggestion, as it should work well in pair with Scizor and Gyarados, and help take down the mentioned threats above, and I think makes a good replacement with Latias, although Latias is just far stronger and faster. Good Luck.
I like the suggestion of Flygon except for the fact it sort of brings away the whole theme of bulky sweeping and still leaves me weak to special sweepers. I will be testing Flygon out.
Just a quick rate here. I notice with Latias gone you have nothing at all that can switch into Rotom-A, and much of your team is walled by it. For this reason you should definitely replace Latias with Heatran.
Heatran @ Life Orb
Nature: Naive / EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
~ Fire Blast / Earth Power / Hidden Power Grass / Explosion
This Heatran is a great counter to Rotom-A as it can switch in on nearly every move and hit extremely hard with Fire Blast. If it gets the Flash Fire boost from Will-O-Wisp, its a guaranteed KO. Heatran also is a great lure to Swampert, Suicune, etc. and can 2HKO them with Hidden Power Grass. This is great because then Metagross and Gyarados will have a much easier time sweeping when these Pokemon are eliminated. Good luck.
BUMP unfortunately nothing is really working... im thinking bout a toxic stall flygon