Budgetmons! (Now playable on Joim's Lab!)

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by apt-get, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. apt-get

    apt-get HEAD SMASH
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    Approved by ArcticBlast

    [​IMG]

    ~Budgetmons~

    what's Budgetmons?
    Budgetmons is a meta where you can use every pokémon (except Ubers). It seems relatively normal, however...
    There's a twist.
    The BST of every single one of your pokémon combined needs to be Equal or Lower than 2300. This way, if you want to use, say, Terrakion and Kyurem-B, your four remaining pokémon will need to have less than 1020BST in total, AKA 250 on average for each pokémon.


    What pokémon are going to be popular in the meta?
    Most pokémon with a small BST but a lot of utility will be popular, like Heracross or Darmanitan. Taking pokémon that are outclassed by another pokémon, like Flygon and Garchomp, is also useful because of their smaller BST: for example, by taking Flygon, you're saving 80BST.

    Why is it so bad?
    stop being mean ;_;


    Pokémon Ideas

    [​IMG]
    Volcarona @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Substitute
    - Quiver Dance
    - Bug Buzz
    - Fiery Dance

    While sitting at 550 BST (which is a lot), Volcarona is a terrifying sweeper in this tier, as substitute prevents it from being revenge killed by Ditto, and the fact that most of the fillers are weak and can't break its substitute, allowing for free setup occasions.



    [​IMG]
    Darmanitan @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Flare Blitz
    - Rock Slide
    - U-turn
    - Superpower

    Darmanitan is a good example of a pokémon with a small BST (480) and a lot of power: it sports a base 140 attack(!), and with a Choice Scarf, it's suprisingly quick, and can serve as a cheap and strong attacker.

    [​IMG]
    Smeargle @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Own Tempo
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Spore
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Memento

    Smeargle is an awesome filler, sitting at 250 BST (lower than Aron!). It can easily lead, spore the opponent, set hazards on the field, and memento its way to a sweeper! With Focus Sash, it can also act as a good panic button against a rampaging sweeper, sporing and memento-ing it.


    Have fun!


    Server address
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2013
    TPO3, NinjaStars, q p and 11 others like this.
  2. PokemonMasterDebater

    PokemonMasterDebater

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    This is a great idea. I look forward to playing some of this. I think Azumarill, Smeargle, Whimsicott, and Sableye should also get a special mention for their low BSTs.

    edit: Does this have standard OU clauses?
    edit2: Are we forced to have 6 pokemon, or can we have fewer?
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2013
  3. youngjake93

    youngjake93

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    Cool idea. You obviously have the immediate problem of me just running Kyogre, Kingdra, Ferrothorn or something similar and not worrying about even bringing 6 mons(or Magikarps if you NEED 6).
    However, it would be interesting to watch the meta evolve to deal with such teams.

    Some theorymon on budgeting:
    Adamant Zweilous has as much power as neutral Kyurem-B and a second physical STAB.
    With an Eviolite, it can have higher defenses as well.
    So almost the same attack anddecently comparable bulk for 260 less BST.
    Chansey is pretty tanky with only 450 BST.
    Eviolite tanks and abilty stat boosters(hustle, huge power, etc) are pretty efficient with BST in general.
  4. FLCL

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    this is a pretty good idea but i think you should increase the bst limit. if you wanted to fit 6 pokemon on a team, the average bst of a pokemon would have to be 333, which means that even the "cheap" pokemon mentioned in this thread would be well above the limit.
    Swamp-Rocket likes this.
  5. Prosecutor Godot

    Prosecutor Godot

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    I don't think it should be raised too much, if it is. Any more and you could potentially fit 3 Base 680s on 1 team.
  6. Mack the Knife

    Mack the Knife Goodbye Smogon! I may return, I may not!
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    This is really cool. Very creative. Lots of UU and RU pokemon are now awesome
  7. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan stay stay stay
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    This looks like a really cool idea, though I also agree the BST budget should be a little bit higher, say around 2400-2500 (an average of 400-417). Just glancing through some of the lower tiers, most of the viable Pokemon have at least 400+ BST, unless this is to be super NFE / LC friendly. I think this metagame would raise an interesting question. Which will win, a team of say three legendaries + garbage or a team of six more balanced average Pokemon?
  8. Asterat

    Asterat

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    politoed/ferroseed/stunfisk/shelgon/sableye/slowking.
  9. Aasgier

    Aasgier

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    Interesting, it is something I played around with before when toying around with the NU Bug-types (which are still pathetic despite low BST because Breloom exists to kill their niches).

    It also made me realize that most mons aren't great because of their BST but because of their abilities and movepools as well as stat distribution.

    Also, Flygon is not usable, it forces you to use 5 mons with around 300 BST especially if you want to use something else that's decent.

    I see a variety of silly teams arising, though none are probably that bothersome, though I can see things being broken. This can involve an Uber supported by 5 Little Cup mons or Riolu teams... talking about Riolu, this brings up something I worry about and not without reason.

    I see Riolu teams popping up everywhere. They have all the support they need in Purrloin/Liepard, Ferroseed/Dwebble and Riolu itself which together is less than 900 BST, so you have 1100 BST left to dedicate to a spinblocker, a cleric and a Toxic Spikes absorber.
    Also Sableye is very good and can easily fulfill multiple roles on such a team (probably even Purrloin's). It might be that Prankster is an issue since most counters to these strategies have higher BST and as such are not commonly used.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2013
  10. apt-get

    apt-get HEAD SMASH
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    The main problem I have with increasing the limit is that it allows you to use three 700BST Ubers if I only increase it by 100 points, which is a no-no.

    Standard OU clauses, you're allowed to have less than 6 Pokémon.

    imo 2400-2500 is a bit too much, you can use a kinda standard OU team with 2500. We'll see if the limit needs to be increased later, I guess...

    Yeah, Riolu teams are going to be kinda strong, though something like mienfoo can just run Fake Out + Hi Jump Kick to help against it, I guess...

    Speaking of which, LC eviolite mons will probably be useful, as they can have tons of bulk and utility with little BST.
  11. Soul Fly

    Soul Fly IMMA TEACH YOU WHAT SPLASHIN' MEANS
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    No one mentioned breloom? Pretty darn cheap for such utility (spore+technician sweeper)
  12. Snaquaza

    Snaquaza

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    I have had a battle and I must say that Scarf Kyogre is really strong (I couldn't use the others of my team as Scarf Kyogre KO'd all but one (Which was a Ditto, which could be great here) and the ditto was defeated by Ekiller, but it couldn't really sweep, so I feel this metagame might get Ubers + maybe some gimmick strategy as Riolu or Aron
  13. The Immortal

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    The fact that even my LC team can't be used because it's combined BST is 2158 shows that 2000 is too low of a budget. I suggest that it be increased to something like 3000, and Ubers be banned or all we'd see are teams of 3 Ubers.
  14. Houndoomsday

    Houndoomsday

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    Ditto (288)
    Shedinja (236)
    Kyogre (670)
    Ekiller (720)
    =1914

    Shedinja seems like it could finally get a niche. Because it's so cheap, and better than similarly priced alternatives, it could easily be stuck onto a team at a very little opportunity cost- for instance Whismur costs more! Ditto can steal other mons for a bargain, so I think that could see some usage.

    EDIT: Ziggy could do Belly Drum+Quick Attack/Extremespeed, for 240, Smeargle is like 250, FEAR Rattata is 253, Gothita is 290

    Someone should VM me so I can play this!
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2013
  15. Snaquaza

    Snaquaza

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    you can also just say you need a full team, as the cheapest filler you could get would be 180 and then you could raise it way more easily so some NU teams can be used
  16. Houndoomsday

    Houndoomsday

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    i think full team is a bad idea as even if you ignore species clause, if you decide to run 3 "good" mons and 3x180, you only have an average of 486 points to spend on your last 3!
    OiawesomeDG likes this.
  17. SpartanMalice

    SpartanMalice

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    This. Mostly with the current budget people likely seem to be just using ExtremeKiller and filler, which is good enough, really. I managed to create a balanced team but my highest BST was 410 (Azumarill) and my lowest was a filler, Azurill (190). I think at least 2500, and banning ubers from usage, except maybe some exceptions ? Like the ones that need support.
  18. apt-get

    apt-get HEAD SMASH
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    imo 3000 is a no-no, you can fit a standard OU team in that. 2300 + Ubers b& might be acceptable, though. (I'll see if the limit should be increased in the future.)
  19. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast improsin + bapongbas gg,,,,,,
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    The lowest possible total BST a team consisting of only OU can have is 2750, and the Pokemon on it would be Jellicent, Gastrodon, Skarmory, Forretress, Breloom and Dugtrio. Make of that what you will.
  20. apt-get

    apt-get HEAD SMASH
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    Yeah, but the point is that you can't have an OU-only team. Maybe I'll increase it to 2500... I think testing should be had before deciding on BST total.
  21. Prosecutor Godot

    Prosecutor Godot

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    I'm all for an Ubers ban. The way I imagine it going is using Specced Kyogre's 670 alone is going to be worth the heavy price to 2HKO every pokemon in the game with the combination of Water Spout, Thunder and HP Grass. It's going to end up centered around broken things like Mewtwo, ExtremeKiller and Rayquaza that pokemon from the lower tier just can't handle.
  22. SpartanMalice

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    ^ This. Not to mention everyone's going to use filler, which means if say you have a Scarf Kyogre and your opponent uses something like Mewtwo, then it's gg for the rest of his team which is likely filler. Extremekiller alone can threaten teams.

    2500 is a good limit. It limits you to around 416 average which is WAY better than the current limit and you still won't have broken things around as the lowest possible good OU mon is Breloom which still forces you to use mons below 408 bst average to fill out the rest of the team. Banning ubers just makes it all the more better.
  23. Aasgier

    Aasgier

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    Banning Ubers also reduces the way of dealing with Riolu Teams even further... I am all for a Prankster ban.

    I made a team with a BST total of 2180 and I consider this probably just as bad as Uber + support + fillers.

    Even with 2000 BST I didn't have a problem with making a half-decent team. 2150 BST is plenty, just be careful and use BST-heavy Pokémon (bar one or maybe two?).
  24. pom

    pom

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    So I've come up with a couple teams under 2300, and I think that's where the limit should stay. Any higher, and it will be too easy IMO. Medicham is absolutely awesome, with a BST of 410. Ferroseed is also very cost-effective, like most Eviolite users.

    Also, Sand is looking pretty dangerous with Hippopotas + Excadrill only costing ~35% of your budget while providing an amazing sweeper and a solid physical wall. And since you're running Sand, FEAR Aron is that much better, coming in at only 330 as well. You now have 3 solid team members and are still under half of your budget. Prankster users are also looking to be big, especially Riolu.

    So basically, Sand, Huge Power, Prankster, and Eviolite is what I theorymon to be the meta so far. Good idea Apt :)

    Edit: Now that I think about it, I've completely ignored and entire team type: Ubers + fillers. As long as most teams carry something that isn't completely ruined by Ekiller, as well as a Kyogre and Mewtwo check, these shouldn't be much of a problem, but I could be heavily underestimating.
  25. Chaoswalker

    Chaoswalker

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    You'd be surprised how high the base stats are in the RU tier.

    List of interesting cheapmons from browsing:
    Hitmontop-455
    Breloom-460!!!!
    Dugtrio-405
    Chansey-450
    Staraptor-475
    Wobbuffet-405
    Azumarill-410
    Gligar-430
    Sableye-380
    Xatu-470
    Venemoth-450
    Absol-465
    Medicham-410
    Smeargle-250
    Snover-334

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