"We've only been scum in a NOC once so don't even try to lynch us" What the fuck is that logic lmao
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NOC BULLETPROOF NOC gg Mafia wins
- Thread starter JALMONT
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No I'm saying in every game but one each, lynching whichever of us started the bandwagon would have ALSO been a mislynch. Historically.
We kind of don't know what to talk about in D1 on Smogon, myself included. The time I started the most discussion was in Acid City when I pushed a lynch on King, but never being able to shake the corresponding scumread in that game really deters me from doing stuff like that in the future.
That's an interesting perspective, different sites having different NOC metas. I think there's probably some merit to that thought, but for lynching on day 1 I think it's pretty much universal that lynching on day 1 is or at least should be mandatory. I don't think that smogon NOCs are statistically more likely to mislynch villagers, I think that's pretty much true for all NOC games. It just seems that way because it's happened in the past couple games.
I don't want to demean your experience, but I think ppl get more out of those mislynches that you think they do. I mean if the people getting lynched or idlers or noobtown with no meaningful relationships, then clearly, those aren't the best lynches. When people propose lynches on day 1, it forces people to look at those lynches and take a side: "Do I support this lynch?" And then after day 1, there's so much more stuff to talk about - you have reactions to how the lynch turns out, people have more stuff to talk about. What is there to talk about after you no lynch? The same thing there was day 1. Who is going to be the first lynch?
What happens after you no lynch day 1? What changes from day 1 to day 2 that suddenly makes day 2 more likely to lynch scum? Why not just no lynch day 3 then until you get to L/Mylo and then play the odds and lynch then? I mean yeah, day 1 there's little to no evidence to go off. But there's never going to be any evidence unless people are proactive enough to try and create that evidence by forcing people to take positions on lynching someone. You can't win the game by no lynching, and no lynching just puts the town in a position where there's so little to go off of late game, you might as well start flipping coins.
There's plenty of things to talk about if you're creative enough. The obvious one is by rand voting (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Random_Vote&redirect=no) but there's lots of different things to talk about, especially moreso when you know the people in the game. The struggle I think most people have with d1 or even just playing NOC in general is that people don't realize that their voice is more meaningful than they think it is. You don't need to be right about everything. In fact you could be wrong in everything you say, but it wouldn't matter because by the simple fact of you taking the time to craft a post, you're being more helpful than any idler, no matter how wrong you are. NOC is pretty darn close to shooting in the dark, but it's a lot easier to shoot when everyone is saying something, no matter how dumb or incorrect it may sound or actually be.
BULLETPROOF NOC POSTGAME
Game Premise
The premise of this game was basically…I was tired of playing open-setup NOCs with randomized roles. No disrespect meant at all, those games were actually a lot more fun than I thought they would be so it worked out lol. But I genuinely think that closed setup games tend to make for more engaging games. With open setup games in general, unless you play mafiascum style small games (e.g. the mafiascum beginner setup Matrix6 is really good imo), things just tend to be too random and for me that’s not very fun or interesting. Closed setup games are awesome because they give players a lot more freedom in terms of claiming, plus it forces them to think about the setup and how things might be laid out. Because of that, I guess closed setups do tend to favor mafia sides more often, which is something I and other ppl who want to host such games should think about when creating closed setups!
The Setup
The “bulletproof” part of this game wasn’t ever supposed to be a true bulletproof game, since that would most likely low the game down to levels of inactivity yet to be experienced on smogon… The key was trying to find a balance to ensure that the mafia could reasonably kill off the villagers without giving the village too many mislynches.
But like I said in my previous post, the level of unbalance came about as a result of the mafia having that extra BPV killer. I made this change last second when I put the game up for approval (plus changing watcher for a tracker) due to fears that the village had a lot of power roles and that they would roll over the mafia. I didn’t do my homework in figuring out how such a change would affect the game which is my fault. Basically, what ended up happening is that the mafia had a lot of ways to recover in case their extra kill died (e.g. they wouldn’t be screwed if the village happened to lynch the extra killer d1) but the village didn’t. They basically had to play really well with little to no room for error.
And basically the opposite of that happened. If Maleovex hadn’t idled the night where he was given the factional kill (I made it a rule that all mafia members needed to confirm their actions) then the game was probably just straight over day 3. The village showed signs of good play but overall, I think they made a lot of mistakes that ruined any chance of them winning even regardless of the setup being skewed in the favor of the mafia.
The Game
Keeping this short and sweet because I’ll do more in-depth stuff in the next section. Day 1 starts. shubaka puts himself in a really bad spot and it was really weird that so many people thought he was scum and then decided to jump on the GME bandwagon? I think when you don’t think about it, GME seems like an OK lynch, but the initial reasoning for the lynch was just not a very good one (him not posting a lot). Haruno had a really good read on shubaka but then fsr decided to jump on GME instead due to not wanting a no lynch (which was fine but why not get other people to join your lynch?) This was something that seemed to happen a lot for villagers. People would have solid reads but then give up on them and not fight for them. I think the mafia sort of overplayed by forcing the issue on day 1 instead of allowing other villagers to post. MeowMix had another good read on Blazade with his “fluff” posts and the fact that he hadn’t voted. Although I appreciated Blazade trying to stir up the game, I feel as if it would’ve been better that he kept his mouth shut and not posted that list of reads. After that, people decided that GME would be a good lynch because ??? I feel like Nomark was largely responsible for starting this lynch and people inexplicably gave up on their own scumreads to “compromise” on GME. Personally, I think it would’ve been best if people doubled-down on their reads instead of trying to compromise on a GME vote.
Yeti trying to force a lynch onto herself at the end of the day wasn’t necessarily a terrible move, but it came way too late and I don’t think it was entirely fair of her to expect people to get what was happening and move the lynch so close to deadline. So while I don’t think MeowMix made a good decision in hammering in this particular case just due to how late the lynch change came down (especially considering he didn’t really explain his vote), I do feel Yeti focused a little too much on MeowMix after that.
Day 2 happened and I’m not sure why shubaka was lynched. The Nomark kill was whatever – I guess it worked out but I was confused as to why the mafia didn’t want to kill off Yeti? I guess because they thought she was vanilla so there was no need to waste a kill but idk. Oh wait, shubaka wasn’t lynched because Yeti was basically dead-set on lynching MeowMix. I dunno, it didn’t seem like anyone else had any strong opinions on MeowMix except Yeti so everyone just kinda followed that. rssp overdid the bussing on shubaka here I thought but no one seemed really all that interested in going after him. So MeowMix died.
Day 3 happened and I still don’t understand why shubaka wasn’t lynched. Oh that’s because Haruno decided to inexplicably lie about shubaka being the hooker and mafia? I mean shubaka WAS mafia but I don’t understand why Haruno didn’t at the very least come clean about being hooked when Former Hope revealed to be the tracker. FH claiming was a smart move there, as if Haruno really was lying, then he needed to CC that right away with the village being in a bad spot. As it happened, both FH and Haruno were scum so it was relatively easy for the mafia to just pile on and end the game. g g
The Players
GME – unlucky to be lynched. I thought when the pressure was on, he did a good job of responding but it wasn’t enough. Too bad. Hope you keep playing games!
shubaka – I thought shubaka struggled as mafia to be completely honest. His weird reaction of “I find ppl who read me town to be mafia” to be really…scummy? to put it lightly. That should’ve been a real straightforward d1 lynch but he managed to slip out of it thanks to people deciding to focus elsewhere. I hope you continue to play and improve because I definitely think you have the potential to be really good!
Whydon / Maleovex / Twin – Whydon didn’t post once and he never gave me a heads up as to why so idk what he was doing. Maleovex also posted once but then also didn’t know what to say.
Nomark – he did ok day 1 in trying to contribute but I think he definitely missed the mark in lynching GME over shubaka. I liked his contributions and felt it was definitely a solid effort, even if his read on GME wasn’t that great. Another player to watch out for imo.
MeowMix – meowmix is one of my favorite players because his playstyle reminds me a lot of my play-style. I can’t really put a word to it to be honest. With the game itself, I think MeowMix had some good thoughts on the game, but got really unlucky with the GME lynch. That was like the one situation where I would have taken a no lynch or a “test” lynch over lynching someone – obviously it’s easy for me to say that it was silly to lynch GME but I truly feel that it was one of those cases where MeowMix should’ve just held up on voting at all, especially due to the fact that theoretically the villages could make up for the no lynch with vigs. As it happens, I think Yeti ended up focusing too hard on MeowMix and there wasn’t a lot he could do from there. I am confident that if meowmix continues to play that he will make a mark on smogon mafia other than being continually mislynched :]
Self Duplicating Helix – this guy posted like twice lol and then never signed into smogon again. then I subbed empoof in and the game was over. rip sorry empoof
rssp1 – I thought rssp did good especially in bussing shubaka. At times I felt his focus on shubaka became a little too excessive but overall I thought his strategy in doing so was smart. Yeti thought he might be scum but I didn’t really get that feel, but maybe I didn’t pay attention too closely on him.
Blazade – did well I think. I feel like meowmix’s read on him d1 was really good and it did feel like he kinda forced himself to post for the sake of the “game” instead of holding off and forcing other villagers to get involved (especially since those posts ended up being pretty empty/scummy). Blazade getting randed the extra kill was sort of unfortunate because he’s the sort of player who will very rarely get lynched early. Other than that, he was really the mastermind behind most of the mafia’s actions and played well.
Haruno – Haruno was maybe the second best villager after pancake day 1 + 2. Had some good reads and his posts were all good. Unfortunately, that good play was marred by the strange decision to lie about his results for whatever reason. Even after FH called him out with his own track results, for some reason his reaction was to self-vote instead of clarifying that he got hooked. very questionable play there but otherwise did well.
Former Hope – FH tended towards the quiet side but played alright otherwise I felt. Not really too much to say about how he did, except that he wasn’t at fault for the clown fiesta day 3. I think he did as well as he could’ve done and the blame lies on Haruno for playing sub-optimally.
Champ1604 – Shot Haruno and posted like 5 times? I was going to sub him but then he got NK’d. rippers
pancake – Was a solid vanilla townie. Reads were good and his posts were also good when he actually did them… Looking forward to you potentially playing more games / playing with you in the future..
Yeti – I thought Yeti played alright, although maybe not up to a level that one might expect from her. In particular, I wasn’t a fan of her apathy which I felt led her to make poor decisions such as the MeowMix mislynch and switching up the lynch onto herself with barely any time left in the day. That said, I do feel like she was very much a driving force behind the village, and I do feel like she had some good reads on players. Ultimately though, the village acting all weird just ended up screwing stuff up to the point where there was no chance of her solo carrying the village. I’m not sure Yeti played too many NOCs prior to this year but she has to be one of my favorite players so I hope she continues, even if it’s hard without other established players.
Final Thoughts
Basically I just got overwhelmed (well maybe more like lazy) with running two games at once, so as a result, I didn’t give this game the attention it deserved. That’s on me. I’m sorry about that. At the very least, I hope people had somewhat of a good time and learned something / got some experience playing NOC. I promise that I’ll be back with a NOC that works some day in the future. After all, third time’s the charm right?
ty for reading and playing
Game Premise
The premise of this game was basically…I was tired of playing open-setup NOCs with randomized roles. No disrespect meant at all, those games were actually a lot more fun than I thought they would be so it worked out lol. But I genuinely think that closed setup games tend to make for more engaging games. With open setup games in general, unless you play mafiascum style small games (e.g. the mafiascum beginner setup Matrix6 is really good imo), things just tend to be too random and for me that’s not very fun or interesting. Closed setup games are awesome because they give players a lot more freedom in terms of claiming, plus it forces them to think about the setup and how things might be laid out. Because of that, I guess closed setups do tend to favor mafia sides more often, which is something I and other ppl who want to host such games should think about when creating closed setups!
The Setup
The “bulletproof” part of this game wasn’t ever supposed to be a true bulletproof game, since that would most likely low the game down to levels of inactivity yet to be experienced on smogon… The key was trying to find a balance to ensure that the mafia could reasonably kill off the villagers without giving the village too many mislynches.
But like I said in my previous post, the level of unbalance came about as a result of the mafia having that extra BPV killer. I made this change last second when I put the game up for approval (plus changing watcher for a tracker) due to fears that the village had a lot of power roles and that they would roll over the mafia. I didn’t do my homework in figuring out how such a change would affect the game which is my fault. Basically, what ended up happening is that the mafia had a lot of ways to recover in case their extra kill died (e.g. they wouldn’t be screwed if the village happened to lynch the extra killer d1) but the village didn’t. They basically had to play really well with little to no room for error.
And basically the opposite of that happened. If Maleovex hadn’t idled the night where he was given the factional kill (I made it a rule that all mafia members needed to confirm their actions) then the game was probably just straight over day 3. The village showed signs of good play but overall, I think they made a lot of mistakes that ruined any chance of them winning even regardless of the setup being skewed in the favor of the mafia.
The Game
Keeping this short and sweet because I’ll do more in-depth stuff in the next section. Day 1 starts. shubaka puts himself in a really bad spot and it was really weird that so many people thought he was scum and then decided to jump on the GME bandwagon? I think when you don’t think about it, GME seems like an OK lynch, but the initial reasoning for the lynch was just not a very good one (him not posting a lot). Haruno had a really good read on shubaka but then fsr decided to jump on GME instead due to not wanting a no lynch (which was fine but why not get other people to join your lynch?) This was something that seemed to happen a lot for villagers. People would have solid reads but then give up on them and not fight for them. I think the mafia sort of overplayed by forcing the issue on day 1 instead of allowing other villagers to post. MeowMix had another good read on Blazade with his “fluff” posts and the fact that he hadn’t voted. Although I appreciated Blazade trying to stir up the game, I feel as if it would’ve been better that he kept his mouth shut and not posted that list of reads. After that, people decided that GME would be a good lynch because ??? I feel like Nomark was largely responsible for starting this lynch and people inexplicably gave up on their own scumreads to “compromise” on GME. Personally, I think it would’ve been best if people doubled-down on their reads instead of trying to compromise on a GME vote.
Yeti trying to force a lynch onto herself at the end of the day wasn’t necessarily a terrible move, but it came way too late and I don’t think it was entirely fair of her to expect people to get what was happening and move the lynch so close to deadline. So while I don’t think MeowMix made a good decision in hammering in this particular case just due to how late the lynch change came down (especially considering he didn’t really explain his vote), I do feel Yeti focused a little too much on MeowMix after that.
Day 2 happened and I’m not sure why shubaka was lynched. The Nomark kill was whatever – I guess it worked out but I was confused as to why the mafia didn’t want to kill off Yeti? I guess because they thought she was vanilla so there was no need to waste a kill but idk. Oh wait, shubaka wasn’t lynched because Yeti was basically dead-set on lynching MeowMix. I dunno, it didn’t seem like anyone else had any strong opinions on MeowMix except Yeti so everyone just kinda followed that. rssp overdid the bussing on shubaka here I thought but no one seemed really all that interested in going after him. So MeowMix died.
Day 3 happened and I still don’t understand why shubaka wasn’t lynched. Oh that’s because Haruno decided to inexplicably lie about shubaka being the hooker and mafia? I mean shubaka WAS mafia but I don’t understand why Haruno didn’t at the very least come clean about being hooked when Former Hope revealed to be the tracker. FH claiming was a smart move there, as if Haruno really was lying, then he needed to CC that right away with the village being in a bad spot. As it happened, both FH and Haruno were scum so it was relatively easy for the mafia to just pile on and end the game. g g
The Players
GME – unlucky to be lynched. I thought when the pressure was on, he did a good job of responding but it wasn’t enough. Too bad. Hope you keep playing games!
shubaka – I thought shubaka struggled as mafia to be completely honest. His weird reaction of “I find ppl who read me town to be mafia” to be really…scummy? to put it lightly. That should’ve been a real straightforward d1 lynch but he managed to slip out of it thanks to people deciding to focus elsewhere. I hope you continue to play and improve because I definitely think you have the potential to be really good!
Whydon / Maleovex / Twin – Whydon didn’t post once and he never gave me a heads up as to why so idk what he was doing. Maleovex also posted once but then also didn’t know what to say.
Nomark – he did ok day 1 in trying to contribute but I think he definitely missed the mark in lynching GME over shubaka. I liked his contributions and felt it was definitely a solid effort, even if his read on GME wasn’t that great. Another player to watch out for imo.
MeowMix – meowmix is one of my favorite players because his playstyle reminds me a lot of my play-style. I can’t really put a word to it to be honest. With the game itself, I think MeowMix had some good thoughts on the game, but got really unlucky with the GME lynch. That was like the one situation where I would have taken a no lynch or a “test” lynch over lynching someone – obviously it’s easy for me to say that it was silly to lynch GME but I truly feel that it was one of those cases where MeowMix should’ve just held up on voting at all, especially due to the fact that theoretically the villages could make up for the no lynch with vigs. As it happens, I think Yeti ended up focusing too hard on MeowMix and there wasn’t a lot he could do from there. I am confident that if meowmix continues to play that he will make a mark on smogon mafia other than being continually mislynched :]
Self Duplicating Helix – this guy posted like twice lol and then never signed into smogon again. then I subbed empoof in and the game was over. rip sorry empoof
rssp1 – I thought rssp did good especially in bussing shubaka. At times I felt his focus on shubaka became a little too excessive but overall I thought his strategy in doing so was smart. Yeti thought he might be scum but I didn’t really get that feel, but maybe I didn’t pay attention too closely on him.
Blazade – did well I think. I feel like meowmix’s read on him d1 was really good and it did feel like he kinda forced himself to post for the sake of the “game” instead of holding off and forcing other villagers to get involved (especially since those posts ended up being pretty empty/scummy). Blazade getting randed the extra kill was sort of unfortunate because he’s the sort of player who will very rarely get lynched early. Other than that, he was really the mastermind behind most of the mafia’s actions and played well.
Haruno – Haruno was maybe the second best villager after pancake day 1 + 2. Had some good reads and his posts were all good. Unfortunately, that good play was marred by the strange decision to lie about his results for whatever reason. Even after FH called him out with his own track results, for some reason his reaction was to self-vote instead of clarifying that he got hooked. very questionable play there but otherwise did well.
Former Hope – FH tended towards the quiet side but played alright otherwise I felt. Not really too much to say about how he did, except that he wasn’t at fault for the clown fiesta day 3. I think he did as well as he could’ve done and the blame lies on Haruno for playing sub-optimally.
Champ1604 – Shot Haruno and posted like 5 times? I was going to sub him but then he got NK’d. rippers
pancake – Was a solid vanilla townie. Reads were good and his posts were also good when he actually did them… Looking forward to you potentially playing more games / playing with you in the future..
Yeti – I thought Yeti played alright, although maybe not up to a level that one might expect from her. In particular, I wasn’t a fan of her apathy which I felt led her to make poor decisions such as the MeowMix mislynch and switching up the lynch onto herself with barely any time left in the day. That said, I do feel like she was very much a driving force behind the village, and I do feel like she had some good reads on players. Ultimately though, the village acting all weird just ended up screwing stuff up to the point where there was no chance of her solo carrying the village. I’m not sure Yeti played too many NOCs prior to this year but she has to be one of my favorite players so I hope she continues, even if it’s hard without other established players.
Final Thoughts
Basically I just got overwhelmed (well maybe more like lazy) with running two games at once, so as a result, I didn’t give this game the attention it deserved. That’s on me. I’m sorry about that. At the very least, I hope people had somewhat of a good time and learned something / got some experience playing NOC. I promise that I’ll be back with a NOC that works some day in the future. After all, third time’s the charm right?
ty for reading and playing
Jalmont maybe if I was a different person it would have been OK for me not to say anything D1 but if I had lied low I was sure I would be under extreme suspicion. Being active let me confirm my buddy plays on VPP and control the game too. People can say that what I said was empty or nothing but I spent about an hour legitimately trying to extract content from that section of Day and I wasn't doing better as town either.
Good postgame, thank you for hosting!
Good postgame, thank you for hosting!
ye i agree i was too apathetic this game, i didn't realize how dull nocs are without sam and at least one other lively person. zzz hard 2 engage when over half the game is making 1 post per week
i definitely tunneled too hard on meowmixxx but like i truly never see that play made by town. it's SO. BAD. if gme flipped mafia then maybe but flipping town is really obviously a bad scum play to me.
the gme lynch at all was truly terrible and why i hate using votes to pressure people. i put one on gme outside my usual MO to try and get him to talk and then absolute idiouts bandwagoned it into a mislynch zzzzzz
i decided too late to try and shift the vote off gme onto myself to save us from a bad lynch so meh.
haruno just plays way too erratically for me to townread. the lie on d3 was just the worst gd play. i never ever view town as lying in nocs so despite something rubbing me wrong about the lynch i felt theres just no way he could actually be town, like 3 mafias revealed to frame him, with the former hope claim in play. mehhhhh.
i ignored shubaka for some reason for way too long, i was definitely onto rssp1 and in my head blazade was the next scum i was going to go after. unfortunately poor eod1 play from meowmixxx and haruno got me onto them before rssp1. im sure those styles may not read OBVSCUM to other people but to me they were just critical misplays as town that i couldn't see anyone actually doing from a town perspective.
the scum should be really thankful TO mm and haruno for distracting me from them, or rssp1 would've been lynched off and then i would've looked into shubaka and also blazade very heavily. unfortunately too many towns were setting off my OBVSCUM radar making it really hard to properly scumhunt around what seemed like slam dunk scum. oh well.
i definitely tunneled too hard on meowmixxx but like i truly never see that play made by town. it's SO. BAD. if gme flipped mafia then maybe but flipping town is really obviously a bad scum play to me.
the gme lynch at all was truly terrible and why i hate using votes to pressure people. i put one on gme outside my usual MO to try and get him to talk and then absolute idiouts bandwagoned it into a mislynch zzzzzz
i decided too late to try and shift the vote off gme onto myself to save us from a bad lynch so meh.
haruno just plays way too erratically for me to townread. the lie on d3 was just the worst gd play. i never ever view town as lying in nocs so despite something rubbing me wrong about the lynch i felt theres just no way he could actually be town, like 3 mafias revealed to frame him, with the former hope claim in play. mehhhhh.
i ignored shubaka for some reason for way too long, i was definitely onto rssp1 and in my head blazade was the next scum i was going to go after. unfortunately poor eod1 play from meowmixxx and haruno got me onto them before rssp1. im sure those styles may not read OBVSCUM to other people but to me they were just critical misplays as town that i couldn't see anyone actually doing from a town perspective.
the scum should be really thankful TO mm and haruno for distracting me from them, or rssp1 would've been lynched off and then i would've looked into shubaka and also blazade very heavily. unfortunately too many towns were setting off my OBVSCUM radar making it really hard to properly scumhunt around what seemed like slam dunk scum. oh well.
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