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Burning Underdogs

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by natedaishmaster, May 8, 2013.

  1. natedaishmaster

    natedaishmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    9
    The Team
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Team Building
    I wanted to build a team based around Ho-oh because it is such an under-rated Pokemon in the current metagame. I also wanted to use some more underused mons as well. Ho-oh almost necessitates Groudon as a teammate to power up Ho-oh's Sacred Fire. The two also have great synergy together. Next, since Ho-oh is extremely weak to Stealth Rock, I needed a spinner. Forretress was my first choice, but I was too weak to fire. I decided on Tentacruel as both my spinner and Kyogre check. At this point, I realized that I had a large weakness to stall so I decided to try Gliscor. He also provides a solid Groudon check and a backup check to Normal Arceus if Groudon is weak. Almost every Ubers team needs an Arceus form so I decided to go with the Ghost form. Originally it was intended to be my ExtremeKiller check but it ended up being my sweeper. Finally, I needed a revenge killer. Shaymin-S was more filler but it ended up being an excellent choice as a glue to the team.

    The Members

    P.S. I might lie about the spreads

    [​IMG]

    Sun Bringer (Groudon) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Punch
    - Stealth Rock
    - Dragon Tail

    Why this Pokemon:
    Groudon is my usual lead, though I often lead with Shaymin-S. He brings the sun to power up Ho-oh's Sacred Fire and eliminate the rain that is detrimental to my team. He provides an excellent check to most physical attackers such as Dragon Dance Rayquaza and Normal Arceus.

    Moves and EVs:
    Maximum HP and Defense with a boosting nature are used to bolster Groudon's physical walling abilities while leftovers is the only recovery available. Earthquake is a good STAB to use that nice base 150 attack stat and can hit hard. Fire Punch is to take care of Ferrethorn and Forrtress. Stealth Rock is a must for any team and Groudon's bulk allows him to set up easily. Dragon Tail is my team's only phazing move. It does decent damage to dragons and phazes through taunt.

    Possible Changes:
    Stone Edge > Fire Punch to hit Ho-oh and Rayquaza harder
    Roar > Dragon Tail to hit through Subs and for 100% accuracy

    [​IMG]

    The Blazing Phoenix (Ho-Oh) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Sacred Fire
    - Brave Bird
    - Substitute
    - Recover

    Why this Pokemon:
    Ho-oh is one of the best Pokemon in Ubers if Stealth Rock is not up. It walls half the metagame and is a huge pain with Sacred Fire's burns and Brave Bird's high power. It is the primary special wall for the team and can handle most special Arceus variants, Palkia, and Dialga easily. With the defensive investment, it can also handle Lati@s even with Psyshock. Its Regenerator ablility allows it to come in and out of battle easily, also healing off some Stealth Rock Damage. Overall it is one of the most important members.

    Moves and EVs:
    I use a physically defensive variant with max HP and Defense to wall most physical attackers after a burn from Sacred Fire. The Careful nature also gives me more Special Defense than the standard tank variant at the cost of power. Sacred Fire is by far one of the best moves in the game. It does heavy damage to any non-resists in the sun and has a 50% burn rate. Brave Bird is an excellent neutral weather attack and can hit offensive Kyogre for heavy damage from behind a Substitute. Speaking of which, this is what makes Ho-oh so good. Switch in on something that can't hurt you, set up a Sub and watch as the opponent struggles to break the sub without getting burned or beaten. Recover is chosen over roost as it is slower than most offensive Pokemon with super effective moves and I don't want support Groudon without stone edge to be able to hit me with EQ when I roost.

    Possible Changes:
    None for this guy. He fits perfectly.

    [​IMG]

    Rain Man (Tentacruel) (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald
    - Toxic
    - Protect

    Why this Pokemon:
    Tentacruel has two jobs on this team. He spins away Stealth Rocks for Ho-oh and provides the necessary Kyogre check. He also does a decent job of harassing common switch-ins with toxic. The special bulk allows him to take a hit from non refresh CM Arceus and get off a toxic limiting the damage it can do.

    Moves and EVs:
    The EVs and nature give him enough special bulk to take two thunders from max base 150 Special Attack after rain healing and protect. He is also not usually 2KOed by Specs Kyogre after Kyogre takes rock damage. The defense EV's prevent Giratina-O from OHKOing him with Earthquake. Rapid spin is to rid the field of the hazards that Ho-oh hates. Toxic is to damage Kyogre and any other switch-in. Protect is to scout for choice locked enemies and to gain an extra round of healing. Scald is mostly filler but it does provide a nice burn chance against physical switch-ins and steels looking to take a toxic.

    Possible Changes:
    Ice Beam / Toxic Spikes > Scald

    [​IMG]

    Night Crawler (Gliscor) (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Taunt

    Why this Pokemon:
    Gliscor provides a nice barrier against stall teams. He is immune to status and can break apart stall cores with taunt and toxic. The nice base 95 speed makes him faster than most defensive Pokemon and he is a complete stop to almost every Groudon. I'll lead with him if I suspect an opposing Groudon lead. He can also poison Normal Arceus while surviving a boosted ExtremeSpeed to put it on a timer.

    Moves and EVs:
    Maxing out HP and Defense with a boosting nature gives my team a second physical wall. Substitute and Protect allow Gliscor to never take damage while Poison Heal recovers all of the lost health. Taunt is used over Earthquake to stop Ferrethorn and almost every stall Pokemon. Toxic is to provide Gliscor with some form of damage and is nice to wear down opposing Ho-oh (who often forget that Gliscor has a higher base speed).

    Possible Changes:
    Earthquake > Taunt or Substitute

    [​IMG]

    The Spooky One (Arceus-Ghost) @ Spooky Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Focus Blast
    - Calm Mind
    - Recover
    - Judgment

    Why this Pokemon:
    Ghost Arceus is an excellent form, second only to the Normal version but since I was building a team with lesser used mons, I decided on this. He is my late game cleaner and can set up a sweep on -2 Choice locked Draco Meteors and sun weakened water attacks. He also provides a nice check to all of the physics and ghosts running around the tier, mainly Lati@s.

    Moves and EVs:
    Maximum Speed and HP make the most of Arceus' great bulk and speed tier allowing it to set up on and out speed most things in the tier. Calm mind is the boosting move of choice allowing it to set up on special attackers. Recover allows it to act as a bulky pivot and use its great bulk with recover. Judgement and Focus Blast provide perfect coverage. If all else fails, he can knock the last 40% off of the Extreme Killer before getting hit thanks to the Normal type immunity.

    Possible Changes:
    Flamethrower/ Fire Blast > Focus Blast to provide a better hit against Skarmory and Ferrethorn

    [​IMG]

    Sky Pixie (Shaymin-S) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Seed Flare
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Earth Power
    - Air Slash

    Why this Pokemon:
    Shaymin-S is a great utility Choice Scarf user. It has saved many a game with the flinching qualities of Air Slash. It's powerful Seed Flare helps me revenge kill Kyogre and Groudon even the Rock Polish variant. It is also a great lead stopping Deoxys-S and Darkrai 60% of the time. It also has the element of surprise because most people don't expect it.

    Moves and EVs:
    Max Speed and Special Attack are used as it needs all the power and speed it can get. A Modest nature is used over Timid as it is fast enough as is and it can use the extra power. Seed Flare is an excellent STAB with the bonus of cutting the opponents Special Defense in half 80% of the time (before accuracy). Air Slash is the secondary STAB with an amazing flinch rate that can save games. HP Ice is used to revenge 4x weak dragons and Earth Power is mainly filler for Dialga at low health.

    Possible Changes:
    HP Rock > HP Ice to get a better hit on Ho-Oh


    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Threat list:
    -CM Arceus that can beat Ho-Oh, especially Rock and Electric variants
    -Mewtwo is hard to stop if Stealth Rocks are down, I usually end up having to wait out Life Orb or have Arceus-Ghost take it out while getting critically wounded in the process
    -Any CM Pokemon can be hard to stop if Stealth Rock is up
    -Physically based mixed attackers such as Zekrom
    -Enemy Ho-Oh can be a pain, especially the Substitute variants

    Final Thoughts:
    This team is one of my favorites that I've used and has garnered a good amount of wins on the ladder (around 1450 on PO). It uses some uncommon Pokemon that have good synergy together along with some more unusual sets such as Scarf Shaymin-S and Physically Defensive Ho-Oh to counter threats. The only real offense on the team is Arceus Ghost but between Toxic and Burn damage, the other team is not usually in good shape. Though the team does not have a steel type, I can usually handle most Dragons between Gliscor, Groudon, and Ho-Oh. Overall it is a good team showcasing some lesser used Pokemon in the Uber tier.

    Importable
    Show Hide
    Groudon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Punch
    - Stealth Rock
    - Dragon Tail

    Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Sacred Fire
    - Brave Bird
    - Substitute
    - Recover

    Tentacruel (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald
    - Toxic
    - Protect

    Gliscor (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Taunt

    Arceus (Arceus-Ghost) @ Spooky Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Focus Blast
    - Calm Mind
    - Recover
    - Judgment

    Shaymin (Shaymin-S) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Seed Flare
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Earth Power
    - Air Slash
  2. acreland

    acreland

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Messages:
    25
    Hey natedaishmaster, pretty cool team here.

    I'd replace Dragon Tail with Roar on Groudon. It doesn't need DT for coverage and Taunt isn't too common in Ubers so it lets you phaze the likes of Ho-Oh hiding behind Subs. FP vs SE depends on what you need to hit, but keep in mind SE gives you better coverage and for that reason is probably the better option. Hitting those little bastards Ferrothorn and Forretress for quad effective damage boosted by sun is really satisfying though.

    To address some of the threats you mentioned I suggest the following. Replace Gliscor with Specially defensive Dialga. Dialga does a fair job of at least being able to take a hit from all of your mentioned threats and can either phaze the threat out if it's boosted or cripple it with T-Wave. To remedy the weakness you would now have to stall teams you can replace Recover with Substitute on Arceus-Ghost. I know it sounds odd as Arceus then has no form of recovery, but trust me, it's a set I've been testing recently and with just a small bit of support it really just eats stall teams alive.

    Here's the Dialga set I had in mind:
    Show Hide

    Dialga @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 SAtk / 200 SDef
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Thunder Wave
    - Aura Sphere / Fire Blast
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Roar


    Well that's my two cents, sorry the rates a bit short but I hope it helped.
  3. Donkey

    Donkey

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    528
    Don't replace Recover with Substitute on Arceus-Ghost; this means you lose to Latias and Latios. This team is incredibly weak to Palkia in rain, so you really need something like a Latias, Palkia, or Arceus-Grass to deal with it. Gliscor does not add much to your team, I would suggest replacing it with Arceus-Grass and using Giratina-O instead of Arceus-Ghost. You will be able to check Palkia in sun with Ho-oh, while countering it in rain with Arceus-Grass. Groudon is checked by Giratina-O, and since you already have a ground type you do not become weaker to Zekrom.

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