BW2 General Metagame Discussion Thread

Adamant Zoroark

catchy catchphrase
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http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oucurrent-38234176

Hey guys I hear quick claw is a fair and balanced item.

No, you were just really unlucky. That's all.

Unlike Sand Veil/Snow Cloak/Evasion moves, Quick Claw's chance of allowing the holder to move first comes with a huge drawback of being unable to use a better item, like Leftovers, or Choice Scarf, or, you know, something that isn't overly reliant on luck. That's why banning Quick Claw would be ridiculous.

You got luck fucked, kid. Bitch a little and move on.
 
i have been having a lot of success with life orb sword dance breloom

breloom @ life orb
Adamant
252Hp
252 Attack
4 speed

-Spore
-Mach Punch
-Bullet Seed
-Sword Dance

very effective in the non lando I meta game,bullet seed with 5 hits is mad especially with +2
 
No, you were just really unlucky. That's all.

Unlike Sand Veil/Snow Cloak/Evasion moves, Quick Claw's chance of allowing the holder to move first comes with a huge drawback of being unable to use a better item, like Leftovers, or Choice Scarf, or, you know, something that isn't overly reliant on luck. That's why banning Quick Claw would be ridiculous.

You got luck fucked, kid. Bitch a little and move on.

Unlike Quick Claw/Bright Powder moves, Sand Veils s chance of allowing the holder to dodge a move comes with a huge drawback of being unable to use a better ability like rough skin, thick fat, or hyper cutter, or, you know, something that isn't overly reliant on luck. That's why banning Sand veil would be ridiculous.



See what I did there? We ban stuff because its uncompetitive, when proccing a quick claw with 20% chance is what wins you the game, we call that uncompetitive.
 
Unlike Quick Claw/Bright Powder moves, Sand Veils s chance of allowing the holder to dodge a move comes with a huge drawback of being unable to use a better ability like rough skin, thick fat, or hyper cutter, or, you know, something that isn't overly reliant on luck. That's why banning Sand veil would be ridiculous.



See what I did there? We ban stuff because its uncompetitive, when proccing a quick claw with 20% chance is what wins you the game, we call that uncompetitive.

1: Because Sand Veil was a better ability than Rough Skin .-.
2: Then we would have to ban Flinching, take crits out of the mechanic, no more Scald burns, no more missing, no more paralyses on Body Slam, and so on and so forth. Banning Quick Claw would result in a why not ban this or why not ban that because it also has a 20% chance.
 
1: Because Sand Veil was a better ability than Rough Skin .-.
2: Then we would have to ban Flinching, take crits out of the mechanic, no more Scald burns, no more missing, no more paralyses on Body Slam, and so on and so forth. Banning Quick Claw would result in a why not ban this or why not ban that because it also has a 20% chance.

Speed differences are a different type of hax than flinching, by a long ways. You can expect the flinch and try to play around it. You can't see the quick claw coming, and there isn't any way to play around it. And rough skin is arguably better as it allows chomp to set up hazards and keep any spinner from staying in spamming rapid spin.
 

Dark Fallen Angel

FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!
I feel CM,Surf,Secret Sword,HP Ice @Expert Belt is also a pretty good option on standard KelTarLando Sand Offense.This keldeo can 2HKO SpDef Celebi at +1 with SR up.This can ve pretty helpful since SpDef Celebi with Baton Pass gives this pursuiter+Lando cores trouble.
The Choice Specs set is also good. While it is slower, its Hydro Pump hits as hard as a Hydro Pump from Choice Scarf Keldeo on rain. Unlike the CM set, it hits hard right off the bat. However, it is much more reliant on prediction. A set with Hydro Pump / Secret Sword / Icy Wind / Hidden Power Electric or Ghost is your best bet if you plan using such a set.

Also, it is just me that finds using EB Keldeo with HP Bug and CBTar, something redundant? Because CBTar already takes out Celebi, I do not see much reason to have an extra insurance unless you are really bad at predicting.
 
Celebi can circumvent CB Tyranitar with Baton Pass. It's a LITTLE redundant, but now there's really nothing to stop Landorus-I from sweeping.
 

Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
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Speaking of that core, why isn't ScarfTar the preferred set? It lets you take out Gengar for Landorus and Starmie for Keldeo, which can be a huge problem for the Scarf Keldeo / U-Turn Landorus core. It also beats Specs Latios, which BandTar doesn't. It takes a huge amount from Surf on the switch, but then it can just Crunch, since no one is going to try to switch out of a Tyranitar with Latios. Yeah, if you predict incorrectly on a CM Latias, you can get fucked, but there are plenty of times when BandTar gets fucked by a bad play too. Whenever I use it, I always wish I had Scarf Tyranitar instead of Band. Am I using it wrong, or what?
 
scarftar works better against offensive teams [gar/starmie/latios] and cbtar works better against more defensive teams [jellicent/zapdos/gyarados, plus it can still scare out bp celebi and smash the switchin with the appropriate attack]. either set owns latias. i don't think either set is better overall, they both have uses, it depends on what its team needs.
 
For me specially defensive support Tyranitar with chople berry seems to be my most successful set. It takes as many hits as you need to and it has enough offensive coverage and power to kill things. It doesn't need the extra speed or power really... I think the most important thing for tyranitar is taking special hits, getting the pursuit in and killing bulky psychic pokemon... Then anything after that like a ferrothorn or scizor kill is just a bonus. It is probably the best for routinely killing gengar, lati@s. Also you don't have to waste another spot for SR.
 
Been using a Hail team on the current ladder and I've got to say I'm quite impressed with how it is working out. Seems to be about the same or less matchup reliant than current sand offense.

Seems like being able to remove the boosts from rain and sun is required to have your team match up well vs all types of teams.


For me specially defensive support Tyranitar with chople berry seems to be my most successful set. It takes as many hits as you need to and it has enough offensive coverage and power to kill things. It doesn't need the extra speed or power really... I think the most important thing for tyranitar is taking special hits, getting the pursuit in and killing bulky psychic pokemon... Then anything after that like a ferrothorn or scizor kill is just a bonus. It is probably the best for routinely killing gengar, lati@s. Also you don't have to waste another spot for SR.

Lando-I + Keldeo works best with scarf set typically, while banded set works well without Lando-I. Mainly scarf because you can tag Celebi before it BPs, guarantee the trap on Lati@s and Starmie. This would mean probably EB Keldeo and RP Lando-I.

Scarf Keldeo + U-turn Lando-I works best with banded however, since Lando-I pretty much takes care of celebi, and can smash Lati@s switching in to predicted EP. You need that banded ttar to smash thru Jellicent even with burn. Also makes up for the power loss not running modest Lando-I and EB Keldeo.
 
What are the best Revenge Killers in OU tier? I'm looking for something to absorb Elec weakness as well, so I can't really use Keldeo.
 
Latios, Garchomp, ScarfMence are all fine revenge killers because of their sheer power and in ScarfMence's case, the Moxie boost that comes with the kill.
 
Has anybody else been giving Scarf Scizor a try lately? I've been running the set recently, and I really like the surprise factor that comes with it.

I've also been having some success with MixMence w/Lum Berry. Earthquake/Dragon Claw to make them think you're scarf, and light them up with a Draco Meteor. If anybody has some good partners for it, I'd love to hear it, as I'm trying to fashion a team around one.
 
Has anybody else been giving Scarf Scizor a try lately? I've been running the set recently, and I really like the surprise factor that comes with it.

I've also been having some success with MixMence w/Lum Berry. Earthquake/Dragon Claw to make them think you're scarf, and light them up with a Draco Meteor. If anybody has some good partners for it, I'd love to hear it, as I'm trying to fashion a team around one.
I think I ran Scarf Scizor once a long long time ago. I feel like he's mostly outclassed by Banded Scizor because Scizor then gets to abuse his fair bulk and excellent typing + Technician Bullet Punch is pretty much Jesus.

Stuff that shares counters with Scarf Salamence would appreciate them being gone when they get smoked by Fire Blast/Draco Meteor: Landorus-T, Skarmory, Ferrothorn. DD Haxorus, Scarf/Rock Polish Terrakion, stuff like that.
 
Latios is nice but I'm still feeling like something is missing.

Maybe I can try Scizor. I'm just looking for an almost Genesect tier scarf revenge killer. My team is Politoed, Ferrothorn, Tentacruel, Tornadus-I, Dugtrio, and Latios atm.
 

MCBarrett

i love it when you call me big hoppa
Has anybody else been giving Scarf Scizor a try lately? I've been running the set recently, and I really like the surprise factor that comes with it.

I've also been having some success with MixMence w/Lum Berry. Earthquake/Dragon Claw to make them think you're scarf, and light them up with a Draco Meteor. If anybody has some good partners for it, I'd love to hear it, as I'm trying to fashion a team around one.
I have actually tried it recently, and while it does nab some nice surprise KO's, I do agree with Lord of Bays in saying that it is pretty underwhelming compared to its other sets. However, I would recommend running some speed on CB Scizor to get surprise KO's. I tried moving 108 EV from HP to Speed on to the standard set to let me outrun Specially Defensive Heatran even if it is running 8 Speed EV's and I thought that worked out pretty well. You can also outspeed uninvested Politoed at that speed tier which is nice. You could probably change your nature to Jolly to keep more EV's in HP if you wanted as well.
 
I have actually tried it recently, and while it does nab some nice surprise KO's, I do agree with Lord of Bays in saying that it is pretty underwhelming compared to its other sets. However, I would recommend running some speed on CB Scizor to get surprise KO's. I tried moving 108 EV from HP to Speed on to the standard set to let me outrun Specially Defensive Heatran even if it is running 8 Speed EV's and I thought that worked out pretty well. You can also outspeed uninvested Politoed at that speed tier which is nice. You could probably change your nature to Jolly to keep more EV's in HP if you wanted as well.

I've actually thought about doing that a few times, but the teams I build ordinarily don't have much issue with Sp.Def Heatran. I tend to run more Physical threats, but I definitely like the outspeeding politoed part. That scald burn on the u-turn really bites.
 
Now that Lando-I has been sent to ubers, I was curious about which Pokemon had him as one of their top checks/counters. From the June OU stats, I've pulled the top ten Pokemon that should have an easier time doing their job in the tier:

#1 - Jirachi
#2 - Salamence
#3 - Gliscor
#4 - Landorus-Therian
#5 - Tentacruel
#6 - Lucario
#7 - Toxicroak
#8 - Metagross
#9 - Haxorus
#10 - Sableye

Was anyone using Lando-I specifically as an answer to any of these Pokemon? It shouldn't be too hard to find a replacement.
 

ginganinja

It's all coming back to me now
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Now that Lando-I has been sent to ubers, I was curious about which Pokemon had him as one of their top checks/counters. From the June OU stats, I've pulled the top ten Pokemon that should have an easier time doing their job in the tier:

#1 - Jirachi
#2 - Salamence
#3 - Gliscor
#4 - Landorus-Therian
#5 - Tentacruel
#6 - Lucario
#7 - Toxicroak
#8 - Metagross
#9 - Haxorus
#10 - Sableye

Was anyone using Lando-I specifically as an answer to any of these Pokemon? It shouldn't be too hard to find a replacement.

Trouble is most of those either have other, really common checks, or are still handled by Landorus-T in practise so im not envisioning much change among the above 10 pokemon.
 

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