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[BW2 revamp] [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2] Grimer

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by apt-get, Jun 11, 2013.

  1. apt-get

    apt-get CONFIRMED CONFIRMED CONFIRMED
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    [​IMG]
    slime


    [​IMG]QC 3/3 | iss | Charmander | Hawkstar |

    [​IMG] GP 1/2 | Mikel | sirndpt |

    ~Old analysis is very poorly-written, and even includes moves it doesn't get (Brick Break!)
    ~Got nothing from BW2. Needs a revamp thanks to new meta.


    Skeleton (open)

    [Overview]


    • 80Attack stat
    • Very good 80/50/50 bulk
    • Poison-typing
    • Sticky Hold, prevents knock off
    • Best mienfoo counter in existence, resisting every single one of its moves and being "immune" to knock off thanks to sticky hold
    • Can run a very effective eviolite tank set, or boosting curse sets
    • Very versatile, has a big movepool
    • Unfortunately, weak to ground, one of the most common attacks in the meta thanks to sand and MB drilbur
    • Poison has poor coverage, and outside of fighting/u-turn resistance doesn't provide a lot of resistances, making moves like HPump, Blizzard or Brave Bird hit hard
    • Can't do anything to physical walls like Hippopotas
    • Overall an excellent underrated pokemon

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Attacker
    move 1: Poison Jab / Gunk Shot
    move 2: Fire Punch
    move 3: Shadow Sneak
    move 4: Pain Split
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Sticky Hold
    nature: Impish
    evs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 116 Def / 36 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]


    • Best foo counter in the entire game
    • Excellent pivot
    • Can switch in about every fighting-type, bug-type and grass-type and deal some pain
    • Poison Jab vs Gunk Shot is the classic problem of accuracy vs power: either are nice
    • Fire Punch deals with steels
    • Shadow Sneak is really cool because it 3HKOes missy, meaning if it switches in poison STAB you can 2HKO it if it predicts a switch and taunts/nasty plot
    • Pain Split provides some healing on a predicted switch / support move

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]


    • EV spread balances HP and defenses while maximising attack
    • Impish allows it to take fighting-type hits better while adamant gives it some additional power
    • kewl partners are things that want fighting-types dead or crippled like Scraggy
    • Forms a cool defensive core with Shroomish/Chikorita and a bulky normal like Porygon/Lickitung, as it helps them patch up their fighting weakness and gives it some offensive presence

    [SET]
    name: Curse
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Poison Jab
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Sticky Hold
    nature: Careful
    evs: 196 HP / 116 Def / 196 SDef

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Grimer can adopt the sweeping role with curse
    • Needs some Pokémon like Hippo/Drilbur/Etc eliminated and steel-types too
    • Can easily sweep thanks to its gigantic HP and good SpD and the boosts to defense provided by Curse
    • RestTalk provides the best healing it can have
    • Poison Jab is the best STAB for this set, having a handy poison chance and decent neutral coverage; it needs to have steel-types eliminated, though. can easily 2HKO even the likes of Defensive Missy at +6
    • Sets up easily on the likes of Foo, Riolu and Porygon
    • Has problems with setup sweepers, so ensure the likes of SD drilbur/NP missy/etc are gone.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]


    • EV spread maximises HP and SpD: put the remaining EVs in def
    • Careful gives it even more SpD to take special hits like no one
    • Not many pokémon can break through it after even one curse
    • Magnemite is cool because it traps steel-types; Snover works too to kill sand
    • Powerful attackers like LOkrow, Drilbur, etc needs to be removed before trying to setup. You can pivot with this set early-game against fightings, try to spread some poison with gunk shot/poison jab before recovering late-game with pain split and attempting a sweep with curse

    [Other Options]


    • Cool special movepool but shit special attack.
    • Rock slide kills fire- and flying-types, but grimer can beat them easily anyway with gunk shot so it's not EXTREMELY needed. Cool for Larvesta though
    • Stockpile? lol
    • Payback I guess but useless thanks to shadow sneak having nearly the same BP on the switch anyway

    [Checks and Counters]


    • Drilbur, Drilbur, Drilbur
    • Missy can really cripple bulky attacker with WoW, while NP variants can setup on DefCurse
    • Sash Abra can fire off psychic while surviving shadowsneak
    • LOkrow, LO missy and the likes can really hurt both sets
    • Phazing and hazards will really cripple it thanks to no reliable recovery
    • It should be noted that knock off has no effect thanks to sticky hold





    [Overview]



    <p>Grimer is quite the underrated Pokemon. It has a very high base 80 Attack and HP, along with good base 50 Defenses. Its typing is a blessing in a Fighting-type filled metagame, and its ability, Sticky Hold, prevents Knock Off from removing its item, making it literally the best Mienfoo counter available. It can run a lot of different sets, from bulky attacker to Curse, and has a wide movepool. Unfortunately, Grimer has some cons, mainly its Ground-type weakness, making it incredibly weak to Drilbur. Its Poison typing doesn't provide any useful resistances outside of Fighting and Bug, meaning attacks like Brave Bird, Hydro Pump, and Blizzard hit it hard. All in all, Grimer is an excellent Pokemon in this metagame and should always be prepared for.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Attacker
    move 1: Poison Jab / Gunk Shot
    move 2: Fire Punch
    move 3: Shadow Sneak
    move 4: Pain Split
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Sticky Hold
    nature: Impish
    evs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 116 Def / 36 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set puts all of Grimer's best traits into one single moveset: its bulk, its Attack stat, and its movepool. Poison Jab or Gunk Shot is the main STAB move on this set, being the classic "accuracy vs. power" dilemma. Gunk Shot can 2HKO even the bulkiest walls, such as Porygon and Lileep, with Stealth Rock and poison status, while every Fighting-type in the tier except Croagunk is 2HKOed without any residual damage. However, Poison Jab still nabs the 3HKO on all of the aforementioned threats, and has perfect accuracy to boot. Fire Punch hits Steel-types such as Pawniard, Bronzor, and Magnemite for good damage, while Shadow Sneak is a useful priority move, allowing Grimer to pick off Abra and weakened Misdreavus. Finally, Pain Split provides a form of recovery.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread allows Grimer to maximize its Attack, while splitting the remaining EVs in its defenses, and an Impish nature allows Grimer to take physical hits better. Scraggy is a good partner, as Grimer can KO the Fighting-types that can halt Scraggy's sweep. Grimer also forms a fine defensive core with Shroomish and Porygon, as it can take assaults from the Fighting-types that annoy this core, while Shroomish takes the Ground-type hits that would KO Grimer otherwise. Curse is an option over Pain Split to strengthen Grimer's attacks and make it even sturdier on the physical side.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Curse
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Poison Jab
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Sticky Hold
    nature: Careful
    evs: 196 HP / 116 Def / 196 SDef

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Grimer can also attempt to sweep with a Curse set after Steel-types have been eliminated. Thanks to its solid defenses and access to a reliable STAB in Poison Jab, Grimer can effectively sweep late-game; even defensive Misdreavus is 2HKOed at +6. Curse allows it to boost its Attack and Defense while lowering its already-abysmal Speed. Poison Jab is a reliable STAB, whose secondary effect of poisoning can always be useful. Rest and Sleep Talk provide Grimer with a semi-reliable form of recovery, allowing it to stay healthy while it sets up.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread maximizes Grimer's HP and Special Defense; the remaining EVs are placed in Defense. A Careful nature allows Grimer to take special hits even better, as its Defense will be increased anyway by Curse. Magnemite is a great partner, as it can trap annoying Steel-types that prevent Grimer from sweeping thanks to their immunity to Poison.</p>

    <p>Powerful attackers such as Life Orb Murkrow, Life Orb Misdreavus, and Drilbur can easily break through Grimer even after a boost; it is best to remove these threats before trying to set up. This set can also act as a pivot, switching into Fighting-types early-game and spreading poison, before using Curse and sweeping late-game.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Grimer has some cool options available to it. It has a pretty extensive special movepool, containing gems such as Fire Blast, Thunderbolt, and Sludge Bomb; unfortunately, it has a poor base 40 Special Attack stat. Rock Slide is a viable option to KO Fire- and Bug-types more easily, but Gunk Shot already does a pretty good job at it. However, it can be useful against Larvesta. Stockpile can be used to stall out the opponent, but Curse is nearly always better thanks to the Attack boost. Payback could be used to hit Ghost-types, but Shadow Sneak hits them nearly as hard on the switch anyway.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Drilbur is the best Grimer check available. Access to Swords Dance and STAB Earthquake allows it to dispatch Grimer in one hit. Misdreavus can burn the bulky attacker with Will-O-Wisp, while Nasty Plot variants can set up on the Curse set. Abra holding Focus Sash can survive any hit from Grimer and KO it with Psychic. Hard-hitting Pokemon such as Life Orb Murkrow and Staryu can 2HKO Grimer easily while entry hazards will greatly hurt it thanks to its lack of reliable recovery. It should be noted that Knock Off is a poor option against Grimer, as its ability, Sticky Hold, prevents its item from being removed.</p>
  2. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
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    Except every steel-type? I'm just wondering if this set is really that effective being a mono attacker that many Pokemon resist especially common ones like Misdreavus and Drilbur who can just switch in and use it as set up bait
  3. apt-get

    apt-get CONFIRMED CONFIRMED CONFIRMED
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    ... Derp moment. I was thinking at flying, sorry
    Also, that's why I said it needs some pokémon eliminated like Drilbur (which is easy to do as it's not the bulkiest pokémon ever and rarely survives in the late-game). I'll add setup sweepers like NP missy, etc.
  4. apt-get

    apt-get CONFIRMED CONFIRMED CONFIRMED
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    open for QC
  5. iss

    iss happily ever after
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    Good stuff. Emphasize how Grimer is practically the best Mienfoo counter in existence, and rename the second set to just Curse.

    [qc]1/2[/qc]
  6. apt-get

    apt-get CONFIRMED CONFIRMED CONFIRMED
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    Thanks, implemented.
  7. Charmander

    Charmander mfw i have a mane and am actually the sun
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    I don't really like Ice Punch as an option because every Ground-type already outspeeds you and it does like nothing to Hippopotas. Grimer actually does ok versus Pawniard, Magnemite, and Bronzor without Psychic so Fire Punch should be the only slash.

    [qc]2/3[/qc]
  8. apt-get

    apt-get CONFIRMED CONFIRMED CONFIRMED
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    Thanks, will write up soon.
  9. apt-get

    apt-get CONFIRMED CONFIRMED CONFIRMED
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    Written up, needs last QC.
  10. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
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    I don't see any problems content-wise, but it looks a little short to me. Add a bit more to the descriptions for why the moves are there and what important things they hit. The Overview, OO, and C&C sections are pretty good though, so focus on putting a bit more meat on the sets.

    Do that and this is good to go!

    [qc]3/3[/qc]
  11. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte For every king that died, oh, they would crown another
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    I spoke with iss on irc and we agreed that Curse should get a mention in AC of the bulky attacker set. Thanks Sark.
  12. apt-get

    apt-get CONFIRMED CONFIRMED CONFIRMED
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    Thanks, implemented. This is ready for GP.
  13. cbt

    cbt voodoo mon amour
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    amcheck

    changes (open)
    [Overview]


    <p>Grimer is what you would call an underrated Pokemon. It has a very high base 80 Attack and HP, along with good base 50 Defenses. Its typing is a blessing in a fFighting-type filled metagame, and its ability, Sticky Hold, prevents Knock Off from removing its item, making it literally the best Mienfoo counter available. It can run a lot of different sets, from a bulky attacker one to a Curse one, and has a wide movepool. Unfortunately, Grimer has some cons, mainly its Ground-type weakness, making it setup bait for Drilbur. Its Poison-typing doesn't provide any useful resistances outside of Fighting and Bug, making attacks like Brave Bird, Hydro Pump or Blizzard hit it hard. All in all, Grimer is an excellent Pokemon in this metagame and should always be watched outprepared for.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Attacker
    move 1: Poison Jab / Gunk Shot
    move 2: Shadow Sneak
    move 3: Fire Punch
    move 4: Pain Split
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Sticky Hold
    nature: Impish / Adamant
    evs: 76 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Def / 36 SDef

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set puts all of Grimer's best traits into one single moveset: its bulk, its Attack stat, and its movepool. Poison Jab and Gunk Shot are the main STAB moves on this set, being the classic "Accuracy Vs. Power" dilemma. Gunk Shot can 2HKO even the bulkiest walls, such as Porygon and Lileep, with Stealth Rock and a poisoned status, while every Fighting-type in the tier except Croagunk are 2HKOed without any residual damage. Meanwhile, Poison Jab still nabs the 3HKO on all of the aforementioned threats, and has perfect accuracy to boot. Shadow Sneak is a useful priority move, allowing Grimer to pick off Abra and weakened Misdreavus. Fire Punch allows it to hit Steel-types such as Pawniard, Bronzor, and Magnemite for good damage, while Pain Split provides a form of recovery.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread allows Grimer to maximize its Attack, while splitting the remaining EVs in its defenses. An Impish nature allows Grimer to take physical hits better, but an Adamant nature allows it to hit harder. Scraggy is a good partner, as Grimer can KO the Fighting-types that can halt Scraggy's sweep. Grimer also forms a fine defensive core with a Shroomish and Porygon, as it can take assaults from the Fighting-types that annoy this core, while Shroomish takes the Ground-type hits that would KO Grimer otherwise. Curse is an option over Pain Split to strengthen Grimer's attacks and make it even sturdier on the physical side.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Curse
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Poison Jab
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Sticky Hold
    nature: Careful
    evs: 196 HP / 116 Def / 196 SDef

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Grimer can also attempt to sweep with a Curse set, after Steel-types have been eliminated. Thanks to its solid defenses and access to a reliable STAB in Poison Jab, Grimer can effectively sweep late-game; Even defensive Misdreavus is 2HKOed at +6. Curse allows it to boost its Attack and Defense, while lowering its already-abysmal speed. Poison Jab is a reliable STAB, whose secondary effect of poisoning can always be useful. Rest and Sleep Talk provide Grimer with some healinga semi-reliable form of recovery, allowing it to stay healthy while it sets up.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread maximizes Grimer's HP and Special Defense; the remaining EVs are placed in Defense. A cCareful nature allows Grimer to take special hits even better, as its Pphysical Ddefense will be increased anyway by Curse. Magnemite is a great partner, as it can trap annoying Steel-types that prevent Grimer from sweeping thanks to their immunity to Ppoison.</p>

    <p>Powerful attackers like Life Orb Murkrow, Life Orb Misdreavus or Drilbur can easily break through Grimer even after a boost: it would be best to remove these threats before trying to setup. This set can also act as a pivot partially, switching into Fighting-types early-game, and spreading some poisoning, before using Curse and sweeping late-game.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Grimer has some cool options available to it. It has a pretty extensive special movepool, containing gems like Fire Blast, Thunderbolt and Sludge Bomb; unfortunately, it has a poor 40 Special Attack Stat. Rock Slide is a viable option to KO Fire- and Bug-types easier, but Gunk Shot already does a pretty good job at it. However, it can be useful against Larvesta. Stockpile can be used to stall out the opponent, but Curse is nearly always better thanks to the Attack boost. Payback could be used to hit Ghost-types, but Shadow Sneak hits them nearly as hard on the switch anyway.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Drilbur is the best Grimer counter available. Access to Swords Dance and a STAB Earthquake allows it to dispatch Grimer in one hit. Misdreavus can burn the bulky attacker with Will-O-Wisp, while Nasty Plot variants can set up on the Curse set. Abra holding fFocus sSash can survive any hit from Grimer and KO it with Psychic. Hard-hitting Pokemon such as Life Orb Murkrow or Staryu can 2HKO Grimer easily, while entry hazards will greatly hurt it thanks to its lack of reliable recovery. It should be noted that Knock Off is a poor option against Grimer, as its ability, Sticky Hold, prevents its item from being knocked off.</p>


    c/p (open)
    [Overview]


    <p>Grimer is what you would call an underrated Pokemon. It has a very high base 80 Attack and HP, along with good base 50 Defenses. Its typing is a blessing in a Fighting-type filled metagame, and its ability, Sticky Hold, prevents Knock Off from removing its item, making it literally the best Mienfoo counter available. It can run a lot of different sets, from bulky attacker to Curse, and has a wide movepool. Unfortunately, Grimer has some cons, mainly its Ground-type weakness, making it setup bait for Drilbur. Its Poison-typing doesn't provide any useful resistances outside of Fighting and Bug, making attacks like Brave Bird, Hydro Pump or Blizzard hit it hard. All in all, Grimer is an excellent Pokemon in this metagame and should always be prepared for.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Attacker
    move 1: Poison Jab / Gunk Shot
    move 2: Shadow Sneak
    move 3: Fire Punch
    move 4: Pain Split
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Sticky Hold
    nature: Impish / Adamant
    evs: 76 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Def / 36 SDef

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set puts all of Grimer's best traits into one single moveset: its bulk, its Attack stat, and its movepool. Poison Jab and Gunk Shot are the main STAB moves on this set, being the classic "Accuracy Vs. Power" dilemma. Gunk Shot can 2HKO even the bulkiest walls, such as Porygon and Lileep, with Stealth Rock and poison status, while every Fighting-type in the tier except Croagunk are 2HKOed without any residual damage. Meanwhile, Poison Jab still nabs the 3HKO on all of the aforementioned threats, and has perfect accuracy to boot. Shadow Sneak is a useful priority move, allowing Grimer to pick off Abra and weakened Misdreavus. Fire Punch allows it to hit Steel-types such as Pawniard, Bronzor, and Magnemite for good damage, while Pain Split provides a form of recovery.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread allows Grimer to maximize its Attack, while splitting the remaining EVs in its defenses. An Impish nature allows Grimer to take physical hits better, but an Adamant nature allows it to hit harder. Scraggy is a good partner, as Grimer can KO the Fighting-types that can halt Scraggy's sweep. Grimer also forms a fine defensive core with a Shroomish and Porygon, as it can take assaults from the Fighting-types that annoy this core, while Shroomish takes the Ground-type hits that would KO Grimer otherwise. Curse is an option over Pain Split to strengthen Grimer's attacks and make it even sturdier on the physical side.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Curse
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Poison Jab
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Sticky Hold
    nature: Careful
    evs: 196 HP / 116 Def / 196 SDef

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Grimer can also attempt to sweep with a Curse set, after Steel-types have been eliminated. Thanks to its solid defenses and access to a reliable STAB in Poison Jab, Grimer can effectively sweep late-game; Even defensive Misdreavus is 2HKOed at +6. Curse allows it to boost its Attack and Defense, while lowering its already-abysmal speed. Poison Jab is a reliable STAB, whose secondary effect of poisoning can always be useful. Rest and Sleep Talk provide Grimer with a semi-reliable form of recovery, allowing it to stay healthy while it sets up.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread maximizes Grimer's HP and Special Defense; the remaining EVs are placed in Defense. A Careful nature allows Grimer to take special hits even better, as its Defense will be increased anyway by Curse. Magnemite is a great partner, as it can trap annoying Steel-types that prevent Grimer from sweeping thanks to their immunity to poison.</p>

    <p>Powerful attackers like Life Orb Murkrow, Life Orb Misdreavus or Drilbur can easily break through Grimer even after a boost: it would be best to remove these threats before trying to setup. This set can also act as a pivot partially, switching into Fighting-types early-game, and spreading poison, before using Curse and sweeping late-game.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Grimer has some cool options available to it. It has a pretty extensive special movepool, containing gems like Fire Blast, Thunderbolt and Sludge Bomb; unfortunately, it has a poor 40 Special Attack Stat. Rock Slide is a viable option to KO Fire- and Bug-types easier, but Gunk Shot already does a pretty good job at it. However, it can be useful against Larvesta. Stockpile can be used to stall out the opponent, but Curse is nearly always better thanks to the Attack boost. Payback could be used to hit Ghost-types, but Shadow Sneak hits them nearly as hard on the switch anyway.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Drilbur is the best Grimer counter available. Access to Swords Dance and a STAB Earthquake allows it to dispatch Grimer in one hit. Misdreavus can burn the bulky attacker with Will-O-Wisp, while Nasty Plot variants can set up on the Curse set. Abra holding Focus Sash can survive any hit from Grimer and KO it with Psychic. Hard-hitting Pokemon such as Life Orb Murkrow or Staryu can 2HKO Grimer easily, while entry hazards will greatly hurt it thanks to its lack of reliable recovery. It should be noted that Knock Off is a poor option against Grimer, as its ability, Sticky Hold, prevents its item from being knocked off.</p>
  14. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
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    Change first set to:

    [14:57] <~blarajan> Grimer (M) @ Eviolite
    [14:57] <~blarajan> Trait: Sticky Hold
    [14:57] <~blarajan> EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 116 Def / 36 SpD
    [14:57] <~blarajan> Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    [14:57] <~blarajan> - Poison Jab / Gunk Shot
    [14:57] <~blarajan> - Fire Punch
    [14:57] <~blarajan> - Shadow Sneak
    [14:57] <~blarajan> - Pain Split

    Ignoring the blarajan, of course.
  15. apt-get

    apt-get CONFIRMED CONFIRMED CONFIRMED
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    Implemented cbt's amcheck and blara's set, thanks to both
  16. mikel

    mikel frizy will carry ocn
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    grammar prose boogaloo

    mostly just english language errors, nothing too bad at all

    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  17. apt-get

    apt-get CONFIRMED CONFIRMED CONFIRMED
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    implemented, thx
  18. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
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    This is actually pretty good, so I won't do an amcheck, but there is one thing I want to point out:

    There shouldn't be a hyphen. It should just be Poison typing.
    Great job on this one! Great improvement from Solosis. :)
  19. sirndpt

    sirndpt too cool for a custom title
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    and what governess said,

    [gp]2/2[/gp] nice work :)
  20. apt-get

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    Thanks to both of you, Governess and sirndpt! n_n

    This is ready to upload!
  21. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
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