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BW2 Uber Metagame Discussion Thread: Clean Version

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by barry4ever, Jul 5, 2012.

  1. barry4ever

    barry4ever
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    Uber Metagame Discussion

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The last thread was a complete mess and not really tuned to BW2 discussion / theorymon / Uber talk so we decided to lock it and start afresh. This will be the home of the General Metagame Discussion thread for BW2 Ubers.

    In the last thread, I felt that a major question was what exactly do we talk about in the Metagame Discussion Thread ? Basically, this is the Uber version of the np: threads you see in the other Smogon Metagames, except tuned to Uber, specifically BW2 Ubers, discussion. With Ubers arguably being shaken up the most by BW2 changes, I expect the metagame has not yet been fleshed out and people are bubbling with ideas. Potential Game breaking sets are yet to be discovered. This is what this thread is for. Here we discuss ANY COMPETITIVE ASPECT OF BW2 UBERS. So, if you wanted to post that awesome Latias EV set you've been thinking about go ahead or maybe you wanted to comment on the rise in Excadrill usage in Ubers. Feel free. I am expect a lot of good discussion to arise from this thread. In order to not stifle the creativity, I will make sure the thread moderation will be a bit more lax than it usually is (but dont go posting HP Steel Dragonite -.-).

    Just follow the rules and dont be afraid to post. We would love to hear your ideas, thoughts, sets, comments about the newly born Uber metagame which I bet will be amazing. Thanks for reading.
  2. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    Personally, I think the metagame is currently all of over the shot, although pretty balanced in terms of Ubers standards. The only real thing that is really hard to find anything good to switch into it is Kyurem-W, since pretty much EVERY Pokemon is in danger with SR down unless your name is 100% Chansey if he predicts correctly. Unlike Reshiram, Kyurem-W is not weather severely weather dependent either. However, he is held back by 95 base Speed and common weaknesses, I guess.

    With the addition of Soul Dew, Kyogre is much more manageable now without having to completely shoot yourself in the foot if you're trying to run offense (Palkia existed, I guess, but he wasn't that sturdy). Latias is amazing. She keeps so many teams together, rain, sun, or sand. I know I've seen people say that sun is crap now due to Kyurem-W, but I really don't think that's the case. Yes, it has more weaknesses to powerful threats now, but it also got access to Regenerator Ho-oh, which is probably the orgasmic new addition after Kyurem-W and Soul Dew, IMO. Early game, before SR goes up, Ho-oh can scout Kyurem-W sets by switching and switching straight out and then healing. You can also Brave Bird with impunity, since you're getting all that health straight back.

    Also, some stuff I haven't seen in a while, and I hope to see them a bit more in BW2, although some of them may be expecting a bit much with the new additions: Scizor, Shaymin-S, Latios, Manaphy. These four Pokemon have pretty much disappeared off the map, lol. Scizor may get some fun on rain teams before Genesect comes out to troll around Lati@s, who are amazing. Shaymin-S I am really not expecting to go up too much, but is still a great Pokemon, especially with SubSeed. Latios might get some use now that Soul Dew is out, but I don't really see it getting all that much with Kyurem-W and all the other strong Dragons running amok for nuking. I might try that DD Special set out again some time. Finally, Manaphy just got its worst counter back (Latias), which makes me sad. I might have to start using Tail Glow Wacan again, unless I run Scizor on those teams too, I guess. Am I seriously the only one who runs Manaphy? I mean, come on.
  3. Splendiferous

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    With the the lati twins and kyuw+b out, there'll be a huge rise in steels. Ferrothorn will probably return as no.1 again...sigh. Scizor and metagross will also see more usage which is cool.
  4. Manaphy

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    Sun really got a lot stronger now thanks to Regenerator Ho-Oh and Latias. Whoever thought Sun would be completely dead because of Kyurem-W is dead wrong, lol. Latias really gives you a strong Kyogre counter and can be a huge nuisance to rain teams in general, while you have Ho-Oh and others for things like Ferrothorn that might try to stop you. A team like Groudon/Latias/Ho-Oh/Forretress/x/x is really solid. This is further helped by the fact that nothing in the standard-ish Kyogre/Ferrothorn/Giratina-O likes switching into Ho-Oh at all, unless your running Defensive Ogre.

    TG Wacan was always the best set imo, but you're really going to be wanting 2 Attacks Wacan with Rest for dealing with Latias the best. Arceus-Grass should be going down in usage right now because of Ho-Oh and Lati@s, so that also helps.
  5. polop

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    Actually, I don't think it should be THAT effected at all. It's served me well on stall teams due to the fact it can double up as a check to Specs Kyogre and wall Garchomp a bit due to that WoW.

    Magic Bounce mon and Excadril usage is definetly going to go up IMO, hazards are still as prevalent as they were earlier, and the ability to clear them from the field is priceless (especially for Ho-oh and Multiscale Lugia even though spinning and Magic Bounce is a bit shaky...). Kyurem-W and Black are actually a bit overated IMO, they aren't the fastest things in the tier and they both have 100% sure fire counters, Chansey for white, Arceus-Steel for Black (YES CB FUSION BOLT WILL NOT 2HKO (well it has a less then 1% chance to do so... this is assuming the 252 HP ev spread btw)), I think they'll die down in usage after the hype is gone. Sand IMO will rise. Tyranitar can check all the new threats (Latias, White Kyurem, Regen Ho-oh, etc.) except Black Kyurem, and Hippo has him there.
  6. gookie

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    Manaphy's right, sun actually got buffed imo. Having a reliable counter to Kyogre is absolutely amazing :D. Regen Ho-Oh provides an amazing scout before SR goes up and can threaten an entire rain team without Ho-Oh's few counters.

    I've been using a max defence Manaphy to wall Ho-Oh, but I'm thinking I could just save a slot if I used crogre haha.

    Steel Arceus should see some more use, with a CM + Roar set it can beat the Lati twins and Kyurem formes.

    Has anybody been using pinch berries? Maybe some Sub + Pinch berries may see some use.

    Since the analyses forum is on a break until the 8th of next month or something I'll mention physically defensive ho-oh here, a set I found out from my good friend Donkey. This Ho-Oh is a defensive and an offensive bulwark, it also spreads burns, scouts, and prevents hazards from going down through offensive pressure (tentacruel is 2hko'd). Pair this with a solid physical wall and you'll end up with a lot of burned Pokemon on the other team that can't break through giratina or skarmory.
  7. mtr

    mtr

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    I used to run Shrang's old CM Bulky Manaphy set, it was pretty good with Lati Twins gone (tho Ferrothorn was a nuisance).

    I dunno, I really see Ho-oh as the special tank who can actually take on threats like Mewtwo and Darkrai and survive provided SR is not up (though Mewtwo is a bit iffy now that it gets Psystrike). It's pretty strong too, and Ferrothorn means easy setups. Still, SR chunks it really hard, and that always hurts.

    Kyurem Formes will be a pain for stall, but I don't think offensive teams will care that much, since their speed and typing are terrible to compensate for their gigantic offenses. Scizor and Steel Arceus will probably see more usage though.
  8. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    Offensive teams will do care. 95 Speed is a bove most common Pokemon, aka Rayquaza, Dialga, Kyogre, Reshiram... I can go on and on. Their nuking power is bigger than Reshiram's or Zekrom's (though Kyurem-B suffers from a very narrow movepool). Most of them will start running Scizor, a proof that they do care. The Kyurem Formes's ability to come in, and simply pick Draco Meteor to wreak havoc is just fantastic and horrible at the same time, depending on your side.
  9. mtr

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    That is true. But I think that offensive teams in the coming months will also start to run more stuff like Mewtwo, Darkrai, Latias, Arceus. Ubers will become more about speed rather than bulk.

    On a side note, I don't see Kyurem-W as outclassing Reshiram. Dragon/Ice STAB is sorta redundant, Dragon/Fire STAB is really strong. Reshiram will still be the favored Special Sweeper on Sun Teams, though Kyurem-W will probably see more general use.
  10. Manaphy

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    What do you guys think about Landorus-T? I'm theorymoning it to be a cool Scarfer, because it Speed creeps base 90's and with Intimidate it can be a check to Groudon, Arceus, etc. It's also just about the only Pokemon in the tier that can use U-Turn effectively. I have used it a bit and it was pretty good.
  11. Splendiferous

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    Lando-T is a pretty good switchin to most groudon sets actually. Even if they use stone edge it doesn't do too much thanks to intimidate. If only it were 101 speed or something, then i'd use it more...
  12. mtr

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    Also, everyone seems to have forgotten about Scarf Ditto, who is usable now that Impostor is released. Though honestly, the Calm Minders of Ubers will probably derp on it.

    Finally, Rock Arceus either with Calm Mind/Refresh (or a coverage move), or a support set with Perish Song/Will-O-Wisp, is poised to become the premier antimetagame Pokemon. It outspeeds and OHKOes Kyurem formes, Ho-oh, can set up on Lugia, etc. In the Sand it becomes a godly Special Tank, nearly on Blissey's level. Except it's fast, and can actually hit hard.

    I know you have to invest in something like Hippowdon (or Tyranitar on a more offensive team, though Ttar has some redundancy issues IMO) to support it, but this thing is incredible. And unlike Houou, it doesn't get herped if Stealth Rock comes up.
  13. Manaphy

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    Ditto is really bad though, at least imo. It offers 0 team synergy and it's terrible against stall mons. It also always ends up as Normal against Arceus, which can really hurt you sometimes.

    Rockceus is a cool mon and it's very good, but if you're running Sand Ho-Oh and Kyurem are just about the least of your problems, unless of course your running Hippo, albeit it can still be very good with TTar. Rockceus can also be a sort-of 'glue' Pokemon for rain teams, because it can check Ho-Oh/Arceus/Kyurem with WoW/Judgement, and then you're free to run w/e Ogre set you want.
  14. Pokémon Trainer R

    Pokémon Trainer R

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    [​IMG]

    As the embodiment of ultimate power, this sums up my thoughts pertaining to the Pokémon Black/White 2 Übers metagame.
  15. ssbbm

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    qft

    kyurem-w is probably the scariest pokemon to face in ubers: it has all of three checks maybe - arceus-steel and chansey / blissey. for example, if your forry isn't specially defensive, it might be ohkoed through sturdy by a specs draco meteor. that's how strong it is. and kyurem-w is really awesome for punishing your opponent for using stall / slow pokemon / spinners / spin blockers because they all get crushed (barring stall with blissey) by the appropriate move, and, tbh, specs ice beam is amazing in the sense that there is really nothing that likes switching into it bar heatran. (even kyogre is 3hkoed with sr up iirc).

    but it really helps against spin blockers / spinners: you don't really need to run a ghost pokemon anymore imo, because if they block your forry from spinning, or if they spin against your forry, it'll be at the cost of a pokemon, because the common spinners / spin blockers (except maybe arceus- ghost, except if he has focus blast he still loses) all die to kyurem-w badly.

    also kingdra is amazingly underused, and i don't get why. since youre obviously pairing it with kyogre, ferrothorn will probably be damaged quite a bit when kingdra comes in, and you really only need to get it to ~30% before lo hydro pump ohkoes it. it also does amazing stuff like 2hko groudon and dialga. the best thing about kingdra is the fact that it can revenge stuff like latias or even palkia and basically any dragon besides rayquaza that locks itself into outrage. it even works as a kyogre check in a pinch!
  16. Manxer

    Manxer

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    OU and Uber have become the metagame of get some broken sh** together and try to spam as much as possible
    I hate Game Freak, they break their own good game each time a new version released @_@
    seriously, now everyone will try either use Kyurem-b/w or use theirs check/counter

    and oh yeah, why need to give Kyurem Mold Breaker, give Heatran some chances to shine

    but hopefully, with new release, I don't have to face Smashpass team everywhere I go
  17. Pokémon Trainer R

    Pokémon Trainer R

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    The Shell Smash + Baton Pass strategy dies with the advent of Imposter Ditto, and to a lesser extent, Multiscale Lugia. There is a reason why that strategy was far less prevalent in DW Ubers compared to Wifi Ubers, after all.
  18. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    I used Blizzspam for a bit with my old Blizzspam team with Kyurem-W > Kyurem. It was alright, but there were so many better things I could have been using, lol. Hail in general has more problems than just "not enough abusers". Specs Blizzard requires SR + Spikes to even have a chance of 2HKOing Blissey, IIRC.

    Anyway, about SmashPass, it has a saviour in the form of Ghost Arceus though. Since Ditto copies the type of the form but not the type of Judgment, it becomes completely useless against Ghost Arceus with normal Judgment and Focus Blast, neither of which could do anything against Ghost Arceus.
  19. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !

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    SR on Terrakion is one of the best thing which could happen for any offense user, he's an incredibly good lead, dont overlook it guys. Tested my rain offense, Torna-T do pretty well, Hurricane being resisted by a very few things like SteelCeus who's a lot more used thanks to the Lati twins and Kyurem forms.
  20. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    Also adding to sun's buff is Scarf Kyurem-W, who has the rare ability to revenge Ground Arceus while covering the team's duty as a powerful revenger. Ground Arceus is often seen on rain teams and is highly problematic to a lot of sun teams because of the many issues surrounding the two types that can hit it SE, even if there is a number of ways it can be handled. Grass types (excluding Ferro, who cant check Groundceus) tend to be either weather reliant (Chlorophyllers) or weak as a Scarfer (Shaymin-S. Don't mention Air Slash hax). Grass Arceus can comfortably eat Groundceus and also counter Kyogre, which makes it a fine addition on sun teams, but now struggles against sun boosted fire blasts which dot the face of just about every Dragon. Ice types, aside from the sr weak (which kyurem-w still suffers) are generally not Scarfed and situational Pokemon (and usually won't like SDed Stone Edge from groundceus!) Kyurem-W however suffers from pretty much none of these.

    I think I might be the only guy really paranoid about Groundceus whenever I make a balanced sun team, so I'm not sure how relevant the above information is for your teambuilding needs. That said however, I do enjoy this addition.
  21. CDRE Vezon Dash

    CDRE Vezon Dash

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    You guys are forgetting that max hp Ho-Oh can take a hit or two from Kyurem-W and recover off the damage and stall out the PP with Pressure.
  22. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    Nobody's going to use Pressure now with Regenerator released. But yes, Ho-Oh can sort of tank Kyurem-W, although Specs Ice Beam 2HKOes it and it can't really stall that out.
  23. CDRE Vezon Dash

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    I still use Pressure on all of my walling Ho-Oh sets, but I use Regenerator on my offensive sets. It doesn't switch out very often, and Pressure is extremely useful for stalling out low PP moves.
  24. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    But when you do switch out, you really like that recovery. Say, you have a 38% HP Ho-Oh. You're up against something that can downright OHKO you, such as Terrakion. Stealth Rock is up on the field. Now, you have particularly no option but sacrifice your Ho-Oh, or try to pull a Rapid Spin--something that any experiecned Ubers player won't let you do.
  25. Furai

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    Or, as likely, you will get spinblocked to death. Sorry, but Ho-Oh is not like Lugia; Lugia's typing allows it to make better use of Pressure. If you're using Pressure Ho-Oh, you're using an inferior Lugia. Also, ALL Ho-Oh sets want that recovery, be it to land more attacks or tank hits.

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