BW2 Uber Metagame Discussion Thread: Clean Version

shrang

Kylowole is shredded
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#26
I actually really miss PP stalling out those Groudon's that lack Roar out of their Stone Edges. But I agree. Regenerator's just too good to pass up on Ho-oh.
 
#27
Ok, maybe not a metagame question but, how many of you guys are playing on PS? TBH, I've had only 2 good battles so far. I think the PO server is more competitive atm.
 
#28
Playing on PS.

I've seen more Rattatas than I've seen of the majority of Arceus formes (basically any form not Normal or Ghost).

Not gonna lie either, I've had some embarassing defeats to stupid gimmick teams started by new alts that my stall teams weren't prepared for hehe.
 

Jibaku

Who let marco in here????
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#29
I've been playing on PS. My initial round of battlers were ppl who used Umbreon/Empoleon/Electivire and whenever I won I would actually lose rating. But yesterday and today weren't so bad. Got a couple of decent competition.
 

Jibaku

Who let marco in here????
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#31
Or, as likely, you will get spinblocked to death. Sorry, but Ho-Oh is not like Lugia; Lugia's typing allows it to make better use of Pressure. If you're using Pressure Ho-Oh, you're using an inferior Lugia. Also, ALL Ho-Oh sets want that recovery, be it to land more attacks or tank hits.
The first part is true since it's easier to spinblock than it is to spin. All the spinblocker has to do is come in on the move. Spinners have to brave through the harsh attacks from the Ubers flying everywhere, AND bypass the absurdly bulky ghosts. It's part of why I enjoyed using Kabutops, because he's an unorthodox spinner so people won't really see it coming, but also can severely damage Ghostceus and Giratina-O.

The second part is not true at all. Well yes, Pressure Ho-Oh is now out of fashion with Regenerator around, but before that was released it was never a worse Lugia, and nothing's changed for that to become true now. It's still the inferior variant and Regenerator completely outclasses it but being a completely different Pokemon with a very unique threat does not make it a worse Lugia.
 
#33
Damned to hell with the idiot who came up with Xatu. Srsly, it turns a match between two stallish teams into something from GSC. I had to quit one game because both teams were just switching to avoid PP loss, and it had been over 150 turns.
 

His Eminence Lord Poppington II

proverb:the fish who eats most dies still too
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#34
how can you not have something to beat xatu

people have to get it through their heads that stall teams should have something to beat other stall teams and to not get utterly destroyed by gliscor / xatu

edit: oh actually xatu + stall is quite hard to beat for other stall lol
 
#35
how can you not have something to beat xatu

people have to get it through their heads that stall teams should have something to beat other stall teams and to not get utterly destroyed by gliscor / xatu
I had Ghostceus, but it got hit by Toxic. And Ogre, but he kept switching out of it.
 
#37
Someone tried to use Specs Zekrom with moveset Bolt Strike/Draco Meteor/Thunder/Focus Blast ? Because when I checked calcs, it looks surprisingly strong.

Choice Specs Modest Focus Blast vs 252 HP/208 SpD Sassy Ferrothorn
77.27% - 91.48%
Choice Specs Timid Focus Blast vs 252 HP/208 SpD Sassy Ferrothorn

70.45%- 83.52%
Choice Specs Modest Thunder vs 252 HP/216 SpD Careful Jirachi
55.94%- 66.09%
Choice Specs Timid Thunder vs 252 HP/216 SpD Careful Jirachi
50.74%- 60.15%
4 Atk Neutral Nature Bolt Strike vs 4 HP/252 Def Calm Blissey
60.74% - 71.47%
Choice Specs Modest Thunder vs 252 HP +1 Kyogre

75.74% - 89.11%
Choice Specs Timid Focus Blast vs 252 HP Rock Arceus in Sand
47.75% - 56.31%
Choice Specs Timid Thunder vs 200 HP/252 SpD Careful Scizor

69.37% - 81.98%
Choice Specs Timid Focus Blast vs 252 HP Steel Arceus

71.33% -84.42%
Choice Specs Timid Thunder vs 252 HP/252 SpD Careful Forretress

77.12% - 90.96%
20% chance to OHKO with SR up.
Choice Specs Thunder vs 252 HP/252 SpD Careful Metagross (I doubt you'll face one, but to show it)
53.15% - 62.61%
Choice Specs Timid Focus Blast vs 252 HP/252 SpD Positive Steel Arceus
53.15% - 62.61%

If I missed any important target to calculate, mention them and I'll edit this post ;). In other words STAB Thunder (and Focus Blast) allows Specs Zekrom to go through specially defensive steel walls (and bait physical ones), which other special based dragons struggle to beat. The only almost 100% counters to Specs Zekrom are Chansey and Specially Defensive Rock Arceus. If you add in Spikes (at least one layer) the number of counters drops to one, which is Rock Arceus. Well at least for me this looks promising ;).
 

His Eminence Lord Poppington II

proverb:the fish who eats most dies still too
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#38
the only reason to use zekrom's special movepool is to augment his physical one and beat his common checks. using completely special moves makes him an inferior palkia / dialga / reshiram or what have you. his special attack is only 120 and why would you use thunder over bolt strike?
 
#39
That specs set was discussed when Zekrom was getting an analysis and it was determined that the mixed set did everything it did and was better as it could switch moves.
 
#40
Does this guy has any chance to shine?


Escavalier
Item@Choice Band
Ev /252Hp/252SDef/4Atk
Swarm
-Megahorn
-Pursuit
-Iron Head
-Return/Sleep talk/Whatever



Scizor give this guy series competition, but it has more bulk and a strong Megahorn. For example, Scizor get 2HKO by Specs W-Kyurem but this guy has a good chance to survive and Escavalier can also survive 2 Thunder from Latias in Rain, something Scizor fails to do. With the rise of W-Kyurem and Latias, this guy may have a chance to work even in Uber.
 
#41
Does this guy has any chance to shine?


Escavalier
Item@Choice Band
Ev /252Hp/252SDef/4Atk
Swarm
-Megahorn
-Pursuit
-Iron Head
-Return/Sleep talk/Whatever



Scizor give this guy series competition, but it has more bulk and a strong Megahorn. For example, Scizor get 2HKO by Specs W-Kyurem but this guy has a good chance to survive and Escavalier can also survive 2 Thunder from Latias in Rain, something Scizor fails to do. With the rise of W-Kyurem and Latias, this guy may have a chance to work even in Uber.
You should run 248 HP as it allows you to get one more SR switch in. I think I'll try to build a team using this guy as my defensive pivot as actually this additional bulk helps alot against mentioned by you targets. Interesting idea, I'll try this guy out.

Although it's a MASSIVE shame that it doesn't learn U-Turn (even as a bug type) as it would make his Choice set far more better. I still think Scizor is better pick for bulky Choice Band, but as you mentioned this additional bulk in some situations helps alot.
 
#42
guys if you want easy wins run double dance lum groudon and dual screens something then basically the whole metagame is ohkoed and outsped by a +2/+2 groudon.

the only problem is that stone edge misses sometimes ):

seriously though, it's impossible to really counter lum double dance groudon, unless you run skarmory or something, seeing as your only *true* counters are grass arceus, skarmory, and giratina-o, all of which aren't used that much besides giratina-o to an extent (and even then its usage is hurt by kyurem-w)
 
#43
Air Balloon and Stalltwo gives it trouble too. I do remember our battle, sorry about that SE miss.

EDIT: anyone else playing on PS? I haven't run into many known names/alts.
 

polop

Would you look at the time?
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#44
Damned to hell with the idiot who came up with Xatu. Srsly, it turns a match between two stallish teams into something from GSC. I had to quit one game because both teams were just switching to avoid PP loss, and it had been over 150 turns.
I think that may have been me lol. Did it involve a Xatu walling a Skarmory, and a troll that had stall in its name? If thats the case it was I.

guys if you want easy wins run double dance lum groudon and dual screens something then basically the whole metagame is ohkoed and outsped by a +2/+2 groudon.

the only problem is that stone edge misses sometimes ):
The real problem is getting two free turns, wobba can provide one, the other can come from baiting a Gira-a switch-in. Unfortunately Gira-a actually has the defense to stomach up a +2 Earthquake and Roar it out, if you rock polished turn 1 while it switched in Groudon won't be able to sweep. Multiscale Lugia and even Pressure Lugia will be able to take a hit, set up reflect, and Whirlwind it out, regardless of the move used (RP or SD). Since Rock Polished Stone Edges tickle while SD gets neutered by Reflect (it sets it up before it moves thanks to that speed). The lack of Fire Punch allows Skarmory to phaze it out. Also Timid Scarf Skymin <- YES I REALIZE ITS NON-EXISTENT, can outspeed after a rock polish and OHKO with seed flare. Wallceus , while rare, can outspeed and WoW Groudon if it Swords Dances and doesn't really care about rock polished EQs.

I do have a concern about something. Am I the only one noticing a huge decline in Mewtwos? I haven't seen one on either PO or PS at all... also that being said Mewtwo Stall (stalling with a stall two) and Xatu stall are IMO more effective then last gen due to the drop in specs ogre usage o_o. Mewtwo's capable of beating both Kyurem Formes that lack a scarf and lum berry while Xatu's ability to act as a stall breaker that can wall ferrothorn without making a move helps :D especially since its running SR + LEECH SEED + SPIKES now.

EDIT: anyone else playing on PS? I haven't run into many known names/alts.
You'd be suprised at how easy it is to alt hide on PS XD. Chances are everyone's on but hiding under alts (MAYBE I AM???).
 

His Eminence Lord Poppington II

proverb:the fish who eats most dies still too
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#45
i actually just play under poppy so no surprise there

double dance lum groudon is almost impossible to stop behind screens unless you have some seriously powerful draco meteors / kyogre in the wings
 
#46
The real problem is getting two free turns, wobba can provide one, the other can come from baiting a Gira-a switch-in. Unfortunately Gira-a actually has the defense to stomach up a +2 Earthquake and Roar it out, if you rock polished turn 1 while it switched in Groudon won't be able to sweep. Multiscale Lugia and even Pressure Lugia will be able to take a hit, set up reflect, and Whirlwind it out, regardless of the move used (RP or SD). Since Rock Polished Stone Edges tickle while SD gets neutered by Reflect (it sets it up before it moves thanks to that speed). The lack of Fire Punch allows Skarmory to phaze it out. Also Timid Scarf Skymin <- YES I REALIZE ITS NON-EXISTENT, can outspeed after a rock polish and OHKO with seed flare. Wallceus , while rare, can outspeed and WoW Groudon if it Swords Dances and doesn't really care about rock polished EQs.
well if you see a giratina-a then theres no point in not using sd because 99% of the time they're using that as their groudon switchin (unless you see something even more obvious but it's really hard to run two groudon checks and keeping a viable team

and rp se 2hkoes after sr even with reflect up i'm 99% sure.

also, the thing about groudon is that you really don't need to set up against "weak" pokemon; you can set up against stuff like ho-oh because it doesn't even 2hko with lefties sacred fire, and as long as they dont have an arceus you can get to +2/+2 = 6-0
 

Go10

Storm Vanguard !
#47
Honestly, there is no reason to debate about Groudon double dance under screen. You can't OHKO it so you have to deal with it with Pokemon like Skarmory, Arceus wow, Lugia, or play in sort that he can't setup his dual screen. Every Pokemon at +2 can sweep the metagame.
 
#48
well, the thing about groudon is that you don't need to really run screens, seeing as you can set up against a lot of things, and it's not like priority is *that* common in ubers (you really only have giratina-o and arceus) so you can set-up against a lot more random shit than other pokemon can (it's even comparable to arceus in its ability to set up against a lot of stuff)

so groudon is basically imo the epitome of bulky setup
 
#49
well, the thing about groudon is that you don't need to really run screens, seeing as you can set up against a lot of things, and it's not like priority is *that* common in ubers (you really only have giratina-o and arceus) so you can set-up against a lot more random shit than other pokemon can (it's even comparable to arceus in its ability to set up against a lot of stuff)

so groudon is basically imo the epitome of bulky setup

I actually saw your suggestion, and I have been pulling a bunch of 6-0s and 5-0s with Lum double dance Groudon. I do run Xatu with screens to aid in setup if I need to. It really works well.
 
#50
i'm interested to know how many decent players are using multiscale lugia. personally, i see to be inferior to pressure since the stuff lugia loses too (zekrom, reshiram, darkrai, kyogre) all break through it. unless you somehow manage to let a rayquaza get +4 and need something to take the hit i don't see the appeal in it.

so yeah please let me know if you are using it. also state the reasoning for multiscale > pressure. i'm curious.

**keep in mind i've yet to use it but still consider it bad, so any strong opinion against mine is welcome.