Bye bye Latias! Bring in the apes...

[firecape]

Well now that Latias is banned there are several huge changes to the Metagame. A couple that i bet most of you would agree on and a couple that i would like to discuss.

One of the biggest changes to the Metagame is that Infernape is no longer a slave! No longer is Latias lurking everywhere to stop the poor ape! Will this mean a spike in ape usage, i think so but i would like to hear others views. This also means a real blow to stall teams who really are put in a tough spot, and have to rely on Gyarados to effectively counter it, but gyarados is easily worn down by simply keeping SR on the field. Is this the end of stall as we know it, or will Cresselia come in to take Latias place.

Another change is i think there will be a spike in Heatran usage, seeing as a very common switch in is Latias, but now what will hyper offensive teams use to combat a Heatran, obviously Latias wasn't the only counter/check so i dont think this is as drastic of a change as the ape.

Now these are just a few things i have outlined that will be effected by Latias's move, comment on them, add more, there are so many things that will change i didn't feel the need to mention them all, but feel free to discuss any that come to mind!

Edit: people seem to think that im saying stall is through now that Latias is banned, this was an overexageration to stimulate conversation, dont kill me O_o, also what will you replace latias with on your team (only if you used it, obviously)? Will you give up scizor and you something else? Let us know what you think.

EDIT by Haunter: Before anyone else asks: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72049 Latias is officially Uber.

 

[BuddyBlueBomber]

Next up, banning Infernape.

Anyways, onto some actual insight, I actually think stall with thrive in this environment, especially with Salamence soon to be banished. Infernape will definitely see a great rise in usage as a mixed attacker.

 

[firecape]

Next up, banning Infernape.

Anyways, onto some actual insight, I actually think stall with thrive in this environment, especially with Salamence soon to be banished. Infernape will definitely see a great rise in usage as a mixed attacker.

Care to elaborate? How will stall thrive with mixapes running rampant...Latias was no threat at all to a stall team as Blissey uterly walls her, and most stall teams even have a Choice Scarf TTar for trick.

 

[MegaKick]

Actually choice band ape was perfectly viable and a great latias lure, but I agree his mix set will come back. Especielly since anyone who relied on mence have to pick him or gliscor to fight stall. Then again, a stall team with something like dusknoir or cress handles infernape just fine.
I'm surprised no one else is predicting a massive rise in ddance kindra, ddance dragonite, and scarf flygon.

Latias was no threat at all to a stall team as Blissey uterly walls her

Why do people assume blissey walls latias? bliss is setup bait for refresh/calm mind/dragon pulse/roost

 

[firecape]

Actually choice band ape was perfectly viable and a great latias lure, but I agree his mix set will come back. Especielly since anyone who relied on mence have to pick him or gliscor to fight stall. Then again, a stall team with something like dusknoir or cress handles infernape just fine.
I'm surprised no one else is predicting a massive rise in ddance kindra, ddance dragonite, and scarf flygon.



Why do people assume blissey walls latias? bliss is setup bait for refresh/calm mind/dragon pulse/roost

Yes but how common is the afformentioned Latias, not that much to be realistic, other then that, until mence goes away i dont see much DDnite, obviously once mence is gone DDnite will rain supreme :P.

 

[BuddyBlueBomber]

Well you've got to understand that not every team is going to be packing an Infernape just because Latias has been banned. On that note, Mixape is as good as any for being tricked a scarf, which would cripple him greatly. Stall will be just as strong as it was, as the rise of Infernape will be dealt with accordingly.

 

[Rugaji]

Agreed, because MixApe really beats MixMence and almost other variants that aren't +1 DD. I agree Infernape will make a great rise as well. I also would say Lucario as well since Gyarados, Gliscor, Salamence, all who are primary switch-ins to Lucario, decrease Lucario's (aside from ghosts though) usage because of intimidate or because Ice Punch didn't fit in a four-slot moveset. So, yeah, I see Lucario, Ape, Dragonite, having a spike increase in the metagame soon. More defensive teams will be built too because of Salamence's talk in the Council; teams aren't going to be as crushed if Salamence isn't OU anymore because of how destructive it is.

 

[MegaKick]

Yes but how common is the afformentioned Latias, not that much to be realistic,

Just because it isn't common doesn't mean it shouldn't be discounted. When garchomp was tested, hippodown walled all but chainchomp. Chainchomp was not common, yet garchomp could still beat hippo, and thus was banned.
Or, you could just run something like pursuit band heracross. Switch in on the t-wave and take off enough HP for bliss to be KO'ed by stealth rock on the switchin.

 

[Eggbert]

Well, ttar is going down a bit. Ape is obviously rising. And my team is in the gutter. Right when I found out how awesome sublas was, she gets banned. Mence is next, then we won't have an OU anymore.

 

[FlareBlitz]

I think people are unaware of just how much centralization Latias caused when it was in the tier; it was actually the reason I, and others, stopped playing OU. I will be looking forward to getting back into OU, hopefully the metagame will end up becoming more diverse. As far as trends go, it's relatively apparent that Infernape will see huge spikes. I'm also expecting increases in bulky set up sweepers like Crocune and bulky DD Gyara, because Latias was one of the most common users of Trick in the metagame and there's not a lot of other Pokemon who can fulfill the revenge killing and trick crippling role that she played (except I guess Rotom-A, who isn't fast enough and doesn't have the absurd Draco Meteor).

 

[Airfoil]

Suicune might become more common, considering something has to replace Latias that can switch in/KO things like Mence, Heatran, and Suicune can take T-Tar.

As mentioned in the OP, too, Cress will rise in usage.

This loss also means Umbreon will be even more common in OU than before. I think Umbreon showed up in OU was b/c people were still debating if Latias was OU/Ubers, and nobody wanted to be stranded and have to remake their team if it was banned, so they began using Umbreon.....

 

[firecape]

Suicune might become more common, considering something has to replace Latias that can switch in/KO things like Mence, Heatran, and Suicune can take T-Tar.

As mentioned in the OP, too, Cress will rise in usage.

This loss also means Umbreon will be even more common in OU than before. I think Umbreon showed up in OU was b/c people were still debating if Latias was OU/Ubers, and nobody wanted to be stranded and have to remake their team if it was banned, so they began using Umbreon.....

Im not trashing you i just would like you to elaborate, but what do you mean by Umbreon's usage rising, Latias is nothing like Umbreon really besides the SP def stat, and Umbreons attacking stats are really non-existant, unlike Latias's.

 

[MegaKick]

in fact, the only reason anyone ever used umbreon was either as a fail passer, or the fact that it can switch in on latias safely, force it out with the threat of payback, wish portect to support the team and stay alive.

 

[Gaborik]

We have had a metagame similar to what we will shortly have. The Infernape bandwagon is great and all, but he will severely disappoint many that think some sort of beast is going to be unleashed on the metagame. I'm pretty sure he was a top 10 pokemon in that brief period where we had a metagame similar to what we will have coming up, but he still has very solid counters and checks. Hell, in top tier competitive pokemon Infernape seemed more of an after thought with sandstorm damage, life orb, rocks, and spikes preventing him from being fully effective. Sure, you can set up a sweep for him like any pokemon, but he has hard counters and checks that will make your Infernape euphoria quickly fade away. (Yes, I know, hard to fathom competitive pokemon existed more than 6 months ago, though I can hardly talk as a DPP player only with many vets of generations of past still around in the community).

 

[UltiMario]

Curse Umbreon pretty much is trying to achieve the same goal as Defensive CM Latias, but in a different way.

It doesn't mean that Umbreon is going to be replacing any of Latias' roles, though, Umbreon just can't do that with those stats and movepool.

 

[Bribery]

"Taylor Stall" still has Choice Scarf Tyranitar and Rest/Talk Gyarados to take care of Infernape (without priority in the case of Tyranitar). I don't think Latias' banning is going to be the death of stall teams since most of them didn't use Latias in the first place.

I expect LO Starmie to rise in usage (well, even more now) since it's faster than most of the metagame, and it can take out Infernape, MixMence, and Heatran, 3 Pokemon that Latias easily dealt with before.

 

[Aura Guardian]

Swampert will rise (hoping there will be a lack of Grass Knot), as will Vaporeon (very good counter), Gyarados (possibly resttalk will rise, to get rid of the SR damage), Salamence and Suicune will be even stronger. Basically, Infernape's counters and checks will all rise in power, and some of Latias's other victims (Gyarados to Thunderbold, Salamence to Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse) will also rise. So, we can look forward to that ending.

Also, Soul Dew Clause will likely be removed.

EDIT: Also, Stall will likely still last. It won't take too much adaptation. Life finds a way, and the metagame is a living reality.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

Yeah, proclaiming the death of stall because Latias gets banned means you weren't playing competitive Pokemon before she was let into OU over a year ago. Tentacruel/Vaporeon will handle Mixape well enough for stall to cope.

I'm more interested to see if special-based Heavy offense will take root since Latias was proclaimed to be a bigger threat to it than Blissey.

 

[Cipher Admin Lovrina]

Oh well, Milotic + Heatran + Celebi = still satisfactory defensive core--even more so now!

 

[YTP]

ape will rise... then drop again.

specs/LO jolt ftw though. gliscor + latias was an integral part of this metagame as a complement to skarm + ttar. with latias gone, i expect the defensive core to go away and specs jolt to catch the metagame off guard.

 

[TheValkyries]

Latias's only accomplishment was to combine Tentacruel and Starmie into one pokemon with a different typing. Now that it's gone, the two will take their rightful synergy spots back. I can foresee a slight drop in usage of ScarfTar, since Starmie isn't afraid of TTar's Pursuit, and Specs versions have a chance to OHKO with Surf on the switch.

 

[DevilinDenial]

If there is a Cresselia resurgence, which also deals with Salamence relatively well regardless of the set, then Infernape will struggle to become too prominent.

Because of the prevalence of ScarfTar, at least for the moment, Infernape will continue to struggle to dominate. There will most likely be a brief spike followed by a return to the norm.

Latias, in retrospect, would have been a great part of a stall team, able to set up whatever(notably Reflect/Light Screen) and then bringing in a Spiker. This will never come to pass, both sadly and fortunately: An ultimate wall team consisting of Hippowdon/Latias/Skarm/Bliss/Rotum-A/Forretress would have been downright scary.

I'm on a tangent here, but it's sad that Latias didn't bring too much creativity to the Metagame. Why didn't I do a Screen Lati/SDScizor with the rest of the team being pure stall? Why weren't there 4 Dragon teams with SpecsLati, DDNite, DDMence and ScarfGon, capable of(theoretically) taking out teams with ease?

Let's hope that the loss of Latias returns some creativity to these boards.

 

[Curtains]

I think it was a huge joke to ban latias. I hope the mods reconsider and veto the vote. Latias brought a very balanced metagame. No one has gave a reasonable issue on why it should be banned.

Yes ape will go up. We all know that. Basically everything except blissey, scizor and tyranitar will go up in usage. I intend to see more teams that consist of celebi and tentacruel and gliscor and vaporeon etc. Giving way to more defensive teams. More creative sets will come about like rest dance bulky gyarados and scarf scizor might make its view on the ladder. Latias going will be a huge game changer for sure.

 

[MegaKick]

I think it was a huge joke to ban latias. I hope the mods reconsider and veto the vote. Latias brought a very balanced metagame. No one has gave a reasonable issue on why it should be banned.

Cause, yaknow, the fact that it 2hko the whole tier and outspeed 95% of said tier isn't bad at all. It can turn it's "counter" into setup bait? who cares. Oly thing that can take an attack and hit back is snorlax, who is setup bait for skarmory, who can set up 3 layers of spikes, so that snorlax is 2hkoed by latias, that doesn't matter. And the fact that it centralized the whole game, shooting scizor to #1 and scarftar to #2, bringing umbreon up, making speceilly based mixape non-existant, etc. It's two best "counters" are #1 and #2 and it's still threatening enough to be voted Uber. The only thing that kept it hear this long is a pursuit weakness making it t-tar bait, and since it can 2hko t-tar with specs surf, t-tar only wins half the time, since jolly pursuit doesn't KO.

Please. You even said yourself latias is a huge game changer. Balanced metagame? first off, thats not a viable argument, since weather it makes the metagame better or not is not an issue, and did you play pre-latias? between garchomp and latias was the best OU metagame pokemon has ever had.

 

[Despotar]

I think it was a huge joke to ban latias. I hope the mods reconsider and veto the vote. Latias brought a very balanced metagame. No one has gave a reasonable issue on why it should be banned.

Yes ape will go up. We all know that. Basically everything except blissey, scizor and tyranitar will go up in usage. I intend to see more teams that consist of celebi and tentacruel and gliscor and vaporeon etc. Giving way to more defensive teams. More creative sets will come about like rest dance bulky gyarados and scarf scizor might make its view on the ladder. Latias going will be a huge game changer for sure.

Are you kidding? The whole metagame revolved around Latias.
Scizor wouldn't have been in the lead by some 7% if it wasn't a fair Latias counter! Scarf tar wouldn't be the most popular Tyranitar set it not for Latias! It's ALL about latias.