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Cacnea (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by fatty, Jan 30, 2011.

  1. fatty

    fatty
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    [​IMG]http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/331.shtml[​IMG]

    [Overview]

    • Impeccable offensive stat distribution--85 base Atk and SpA
    • Good amount of versatility
    • Tremendous stat-upping moves in the form of Swords Dance, Nasty Plot, and Growth
    • Solid offensive movepool

    [Set]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Sucker Punch
    move 3: Seed Bomb
    move 4: Drain Punch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Sand Veil
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe

    [Set Comments]

    • Extremely powerful after a SD boost
    • Sucker Punch provides a strong priority move which is always appreciated
    • Physical Grass STAB helps with some of the top-tier physical walls like Will-O-Wisp Pururiru, Slowpoke, and Hippopotas
    • Life Orb helps boost attack power even more
    • Fairly standard' sweeper spread' with max Atk and Spe EV's
    • Drain Punch in correspondence with the other attacking options allows good coverage and the ability to recover back some HP in certain situations

    [Additional Comments]

    • Either Encore or Substitute may be used over Brick Break, but the coverage offered by the latter is often times too hard to pass up
    • Like most sweepers, Cacnea enjoys spike and stealth rock support

    [Set]
    name: Mixed Growth Sweeper
    move 1: Growth
    move 2: Sucker Punch
    move 3: Giga Drain
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Drain Punch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Sand Veil
    nature: Naive
    EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe

    [Set Comments]

    • Growth boosts both Atk and SpA by 1 level and by 2 levels when sun is active, making a very powerful mixed sweeper
    • Sucker Punch provides a strong priority move
    • Giga Drain's power buff and ability to recover back some HP lost by Life Orb as well as being a good special STAB option make it more than worthwhile on this set
    • HP Fire serves to fill in some coverage holes
    • Life Orb helps boost attack power even more
    • Max speed is used to force a speed tie between Cacnea and neutral-natured Croagunk, a common Cacnea switch-in, netting a potential KO with HP Fire

    [Additional Comments]

    • If a physical STAB is more appealing, than Seed Bomb may be used (note that Water Absorb may be used with Seed Bomb)
    • If Dark Pulse's advantages outweigh that of a strong priority attack, then it may be used over Sucker Punch in conjunction with either
    Seed Bomb over Giga Drain or Brick Break over HP Fire
    • Again, spike and stealth rock support is greatly appreciated

    [Set]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Giga Drain / Seed Bomb
    move 2: Dark Pulse
    move 3: Drain Punch
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Sand Veil
    nature: Naive
    EVs: 36 HP / 156 Atk / 76 SpA / 236 Spe

    [Set Comments]

    • Choice Scarf remedies Cacnea's speed issue, giving it 21 speed, consequentely letting it outspeed all non-scarfed pokemon
    • All 4 moveslots are put to good use and provide solid coverage
    • Giga Drain's power buff and ability to recover back some HP lost by Life Orb as well as being a good special STAB option make it a great asset to this set
    • HP Fire serves to fill in some coverage holes
    • Drain Punch helps deal with common walls like Munchlax and Lickitung, as well as Houndour, who walls the rest of the set

    [Additional Comments]

    • Switcheroo would be fun on this set, but it is illegal when used with most of Cacnea's attack options
    • Either Giga Drain or Seed Bomb may be used for STAB depending on what side of the attacking spectrum is more useful to hit


    [Set]
    name: SandHax Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Sucker Punch
    move 4: Focus Punch / Seed Bomb
    item: BrightPowder
    ability: Sand Veil
    nature: Adamant
    EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe

    [Set Comments]

    • Still very powerful after a SD boost
    • BrightPowder in conjunction with Sand Veil (only in sand) make it extremely annoying to try and hit Cacnea
    • Substitute makes great use of the misses granted by brightpowder and sand veil
    • Sucker Punch and Focus Punch work very well in conjunction with Substitute
    • Hippopotas is an absolute must to get the most out of the set


    [Additional Comments]

    • Seed Bomb may be used over Focus Punch to give access to a STAB option

    [Set]
    name: BondPunch
    move 1: Substitute / Endure
    move 2: Focus Punch
    move 3: Destiny Bond
    move 4: Sucker Punch
    item: Salac Berry
    ability: Sand Veil
    nature: Jolly
    EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe

    [Set Comments]


    • Very annoying when played right
    • Sub down to Salac range, then alternate between Destiny Bond and Focus Punch
    • If the opponent kills attacks and kills, Destiny Bond takes them out as well. If they choose to not attack, a free Focus Punch is in order
    • Sucker Punch provides priority and wors very well with Substitute and Focus Punch

    [Additional Comments]


    • Endure may be used over Substitute if getting a Sub up is too difficult and good prediction is used

    [Optional Changes]

    • As previously mentioned, Cacnea has pretty much interchangeable physical and special STABs for the Mixed and Choice Scarf sets
    • Hidden Power [Ice] is an option on the Choice Scarf set to hit Dragons and Gligar a lot harder
    • A Nasty Plot set may be used, but it is often times outclassed by either Swords Dance or Mixed Growth
    • On any set utilizing Seed Bomb, Bullet Seed may be used over it if the small chance of more damage output and the ability to break subs is more appealing

    [Team Options]

    • Magnemite can trap and kill opposing Steel-types who resist both of Cacnea's common attacking types--Grass and Dark
    • Teammates to deal with common Cacnea switch-ins like Croagunk, Houndour, and Bulky Ghosts are recommended. These include the likes of Slowbro and Pururiru for Croagunk, Munchlax for Houndour, and a Houndour of your own for Bulky Ghosts
    • Any Pokemon that can set up entry hazards are helpful
    • Generally, Pokemon that can take Cacnea's Flying, Fire, Bug, Poison, and Ice weaknesses can prove useful. A Steel-type like Tesshido or Magnemite can help with most of those, barring Fire of course and Bug in Tesshido's case.
    • Hippopotas can set up Stealth Rock as well as Sandstream which helps Cacnea abuse its Sand Veil ability

    [Counters]

    • Croagunk and Houndour both resist Cacnea's most common attacking types and can strike back with powerful STAB attacks
    • Koffing is extremely annoying due to it's tendency to run Will-O-Wisp, resistance to Cacnea's STAB, and neutrality to most of Cacnea's movepool
    • Due to Cacnea's below average defenses, any Pokemon that can outspeed and has a resistance to Sucker Punch can likely check it
    • Most Fire-types can switch-in and dispatch of Cacnea with strong STAB moves
  2. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

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    Uh, where's the Sandhax SD set? Substitute/SD/SPunch/[Focus Punch/Seed Bomb/Brick Break]? It was always lulzy, and it's a lot different than the set listed.

    Slash Jolly on the SD set. Helps speed tie with 14 base speed tier. Power nerf isn't much in LC.
  3. metsrule158

    metsrule158 Don't disturb him on his break.
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    you might want to include a utility set in the optional changes section. It could have substitute, leech seed, spikes, and seed bomb with max defensive EVs.
  4. fatty

    fatty
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    Jolly added. Does anyone else think this deserves its own set, or just a mention in the SD set?

    I was thinking about this because it does have some very good support options, it's defenses just didnt seem to hold up to them. Maybe Evo Stone could help remedy this? Any other opinions on adding a utility set?

    Edit: Got enough support for a seperate sand hax SD set, so I'll be adding stuff for that accordingly.
  5. Bynine

    Bynine

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    • Slow as shit.

    The best thing I can see it doing is switching into a slow water type, Swords Dancing on the switch, and Sucker Punching everything that comes its way. Except, you know, priority users. Because Cacnea can't take a hit. Do correct me if I'm wrong, but the first set seems a bit... bad.
  6. TEA_DEMON

    TEA_DEMON

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    i hope you mean slowpoke.
  7. fatty

    fatty
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    I wouldn't call 38 Attack after a SD, not including Life Orb, and priority 'bad'. Yes, due to its terrible defenses, getting a SD up is not the easiest thing in the world, but if it does get one up, it can be very threatening. Cacnea also has enough speed to beat slower walls, and sucker punch for faster, offensive threats.

    Yeah, sorry about that, changing it now.
  8. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Drain Punch > Brick Break 100% of the time. Don't think I need to explain why.

    Also, Bullet Seed in OC at the very least. Slight gamble, as it's less effective 37.5% of the time, but more effective 25% of the time, and it also has "increased Critical Hit chance" due to multiple hits. It also breaks Substitutes, which is nice.
  9. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Am I the only one who thinks the Growth set is a little questionable because of this? :0 Cacnea is basically in competetion with all the Chlorophyll Grass-types who get their speed doubled when it tries this, and... I dunno. I dunno about that.
  10. Bynine

    Bynine

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    I repeat - Priority moves. Any decently powerful priority move (Fake Out!) will smash Cacnea's tissue-like defenses, and outspeed it due to its low speed. I just can't envision the first set being too viable.
  11. fatty

    fatty
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    Alright thanks, making the changes now.
    It's a perfectly viable set when considering the mixed ability it has, especially the fact that a boosted HP Fire deals with some of it's most common switch-ins like Reflect Bronzor, Tesshido, and Croagunk.
    I don't see the point in throwing out a definitely viable set just because it gets beat by powerful priority users. Forgive SD Cacnea for having checks. Yes, it may not be taking on Fake Out + BP Meditite well, but pokes that don't have priority or are slower than Cacnea (which is becoming a very real scenario, with Evo Stone increasing the amount of slow, bulky mons being used) have a very real chance of getting raped by a cactus.
  12. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Everything gets beaten by "powerful priority", not just Cacnea.

    Also, needs a BondPunch set.

    [Set]
    name: BondPunch
    move 1: Substitute / Endure
    move 2: Focus Punch
    move 3: Destiny Bond
    move 4: Sucker Punch
    item: Salac Berry
    ability: Sand Veil
    nature: Jolly
    EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe

    Sub down to Salac range, then alternate Destiny Bond and Focus Punch. If they kill you, Destiny Bond kills them. If they don't, your Focus Punch goes off without a hitch. Sucker Punch for Priority and STAB.

    Also, remove all mentions of Water Absorb on main sets, as it is an unreleased ability as of right now.
  13. fatty

    fatty
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    Adding the set, and alright, should of checked that before lol
  14. GtM

    GtM

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    As far as I'm aware, Cacnea's just a pure Grass type, so Sucker Punch doesn't get STAB.
  15. TEA_DEMON

    TEA_DEMON

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    the sand hax set is probably redundant now since brightpowder is banned.
  16. Zephyr

    Zephyr Life Stream
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    This is true.

    @TEA DEMON

    Not necessarily as Sand Veil is always the main factor in it.

    Also even though the Dream World ability Water Absorb hasn't been released yet, its still best to note that it is its DW ability in the analysis.
  17. TEA_DEMON

    TEA_DEMON

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    regardless the item needs to be changed.
  18. Aerrow

    Aerrow hunter
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    The OP of this thread has informed me that he/she is no longer working on this analysis. This thread can be moved to L&O.

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