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Cacturne (Swords Dance) (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by erisia, Apr 15, 2012.

  1. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Messages:
    882
    Taking over this as The3DOstrich hasn't updated the thread in a while, and I got tennisace's and dtc's permission.

    Original set by The3DOstrich

    [​IMG]

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Sucker Punch
    move 3: Seed Bomb
    move 4: Substitute / Encore
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    ability: Water Absorb / Sand Veil
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Although Cacturne is normally used as an offensive Spikes user, it can also make an excellent sweeper that can ravage teams that lack a response to it. Cacturne excels at playing mindgames with opponents by using Substitute and Sucker Punch, and can easily force them into making bad decisions that could cost them the game. Walls such as Regirock and Wartortle that may normally try and setup against Cacturne, assuming it to be a utility Pokemon, will be in for a nasty surprise as Cacturne sets up with Swords Dances instead, blowing by them with ease after a boost. After a single Swords Dance and maximum Attack investment, it reaches a devastating Attack stat of 658, and although Cacturne lacks Speed even with investment, STAB Sucker Punch will hit most faster Pokemon for significant damage. Even with Leftovers, Cacturne's power seriously threatens offensive teams, although a Life Orb can be used instead to threaten bulky Pokemon when at +2. The Speed EVs and Jolly nature allow it to outspeed defensive Misdreavus and other defensive Pokemon within that Speed tier, and use Substitute to block Will-O-Wisp and other status conditions, as well as outspeed Skuntank before it can use Taunt. If you choose to use Encore, this investment also makes it more effective and gives Cacturne more chances to set up. While Cacturne faces competition from Absol due to its higher Speed and access to Superpower, Cacturne's immunity to Water-type attacks, particularly Scald, in addition to STAB Seed Bomb that can OHKO Quagsire without any boosts, give it more utility on teams that have issues with Water-type Pokemon.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>When using a Life Orb, Cacturne's HP will be drained quickly after multiple attacks, especially if it uses Substitute. In this case, it may be more prudent to use Encore to conserve Cacturne's HP and to allow it to fire off more attacks. It should also be noted that Encore, and other coverage moves such as Drain Punch, are illegal with the Water Absorb ability and must be used with Sand Veil instead, but their extra utility may make them worth using despite this disadvantage, especially if your team already packs a solid response to Water-type Pokemon. Speaking of Drain Punch, the type coverage it provides allows it to break through Steel-type Pokemon, such as Probopass and Bastiodon, more quickly than Seed Bomb. Brick Break can also be used to provide this coverage; although it doesn't provide HP recovery, it remains compatible with Water Absorb. If you don't want to invest so much in Cacturne's lackluster Speed, an EV spread of 184 HP / 136 Atk / 32 Def / 32 SpD / 124 Spe with an Adamant nature still allows Cacturne to outspeed uninvested base 65 Speed Pokemon, while maintaining its attacking power and providing significantly better bulk.</p>

    <p>Cacturne can certainly devastate teams if given the chance, but it helps to remove its checks and counters in advance before attempting to sweep. Tangela can wall Cacturne effortlessly even as it accrues boosts, and can cut it down with Hidden Power Ice, but packing a Magmortar on your team can make it less of an issue. Fighting-type Pokemon are a big problem for Cacturne as they resist Sucker Punch and can easily OHKO Cacturne with their STAB moves. Misdreavus can switch into Sawk with impunity and burn it with Will-O-Wisp, while Haunter can threaten to KO it with Sludge Bomb when Sturdy has been nullified. Throh and Gurdurr are more persistent threats as they can take even boosted Seed Bombs with ease and cannot be dealt with via status attacks due to their Guts ability. Musharna deals with them expertly, taking relatively little damage from Payback due to its abysmal Speed stat and hitting them hard with STAB Psychic. Ninjask is an unexpected but extremely problematic Pokemon for Cacturne to face, as its Substitutes aren't broken by Seed Bomb without a boost, and it can bypass Sucker Punch with a Substitute of its own before Baton Passing to a teammate. Golem and Bastiodon are both decent responses in a lead match-up, as they can use Stealth Rock to prevent Ninjask from switching into battle commonly, Roar to phase Ninjask out before it can Baton Pass its boosts to a teammate, or Rock Blast to kill it directly.</p>

    <p>While Cacturne doesn't necessarily force a lot of switches, the residual damage caused by Stealth Rock can be helpful in securing OHKOs in the late game. For instance, after Stealth Rock damage, all Sawk are OHKO'd by +2 Seed Bomb, and other Pokemon with the Sturdy ability (or a Focus Sash equipped) become more vulnerable. Golem is a good candidate for providing hazard support as it also deals with opposing Flying- and Fire-type Pokemon, such as Braviary and Emboar, who would otherwise cause problems for Cacturne. Cacturne also appreciates Dual Screens support, as the extra bulk they provide can allow it to set up on Pokemon that would normally threaten it; Gardevoir is an excellent candidate as it can deal with Fighting-types fairly well, and it can use Healing Wish or Memento to support Cacturne's sweep further if necessary. Rotom-S is an unconventional candidate for this role, but it can deal with Flying-types such as Swellow and Braviary more easily due to its STAB Volt Switch.</p>
  2. SkullCandy

    SkullCandy She Bangs The Drums
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
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    copypastable
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Sucker Punch
    move 3: Seed Bomb
    move 4: Substitute / Encore
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    ability: Water Absorb / Sand Veil
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Although Cacturne is normally used as an offensive Spikes user, it also makes for an excellent sweeper that can ravage teams that lack a response to it, By playing mindgames with opponents, thanks to Substitute and Sucker Punch, Cacturne can force them into making bad decisions. Walls such as Regirock and Wartortle that may normally try and setup against Cacturne, assuming it to be a utility Pokemon, will be in for a nasty surprise as Cacturne sets up Swords Dances instead, blowing them away with with ease after a boost. After a single Swords Dance boost and maximum Attack investment, it reaches a devastating Attack stat of 658, and, although Cacturne lacks speed even with investment, STAB Sucker Punch will hit most faster Pokemon for a significant amount of damage. Even with Leftovers, Cacturne's power seriously threatens offensive teams, although a Life Orb can be used instead to threaten bulky Pokemon more when at +2. The Speed EVs and Jolly nature allow it to outspeed defensive Misdreavus and other defensive Pokemon within that speed tier. Substitute blocks Will-O-Wisps and any other status conditions, as well as stopping Skunktank from using Taunt on Cacturne. If you choose to use Encore, this investment also makes it more effective and gives Cacturne more chances to set up. While Cacturne faces competition from Absol due to its higher Speed and access to Superpower, Cacturne's immunity to Water-type attacks, particularly Scald, in addition to STAB Seed Bomb that OHKOes Quagsire with ease, give it more utility on teams that have issues with Water-type Pokemon.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>When using a Life Orb, Cacturne's HP will be drained quicly after multiple attacks. This loss of health is compounded if it uses Substitute. In this case, it may be more prudent to use Encore to conserve Cacturne's HP and to allow it to fire off more attacks. It should also be noted that Encore, and other coverage moves such as Drain Punch, are illegal with Water Absorb and must be used with Sand Veil instead. However, their extra utility may make them worth using,despite this disadvantage, especially if your team already packs a solid response to Water-type Pokemon. Speaking of Drain Punch, the coverage it provides allows it to break through Steel-type Pokemon such as Probopass and Bastiodon more quickly than Seed Bomb. Brick Break can also be used to provide this coverage and, although it doesn't provide HP recovery, it remains compatible with Water Absorb. If you don't want to invest so much in Cacturne's lackluster speed, an EV spread of 184 HP / 136 Atk / 32 Def / 32 SpD / 124 Spe with an Adamant nature still allows Cacturne to outspeed uninvested base 65 Speed Pokemon, while maintaining its attacking power and providing significantly better bulk.</p>

    <p>Cacturne can certainly devastate teams if given the chance, but it helps to remove its checks and counters in advance before attempting to sweep. Tangela can wall Cacturne effortlessly even as it accrues boosts, and can cut it down with Hidden Power Ice. Packing a strong Fire-type Pokemonon your team can make it less of an issue. Fighting-type Pokemon are a big problem for Cacturne as they resist Sucker Punch and can OHKO Cacturne easily with their STAB moves. Misdreavus can switch into Sawk with impunity and burn it with Will O Wisp, while Haunter can threaten to KO it with Sludge Bomb when Sturdy isn't active. Throh and Gurdurr are more persistent threats as they can even take boosted Seed Bombs and cannot be dealt with via status attacks due to Guts. Musharna deals with them expertly, taking relatively little damage from Payback due to its abysmal Speed stat and hitting them hard with STAB Psychic. Ninjask is an unexpected, but extremely problematic Pokemon for Cacturne to face, as its Substitutes aren't broken by Seed Bomb without a boost. It can bypass Sucker Punch with a Substitute of its own before Baton Passing to a teammate. Golem is a decent response in a lead match-up, as it can use Stealth Rock to deter it from switching in, or Rock Blast to kill it directly. <p>

    <p>While Cacturne doesn't necessarily force a lot of switches, the residual damage caused by Stealth Rock is helpful in securing OHKOs with a in the late game. For instance, after Stealth Rock damage, all Sawk are OHKO'd by the combination of +2 Sucker Punch and Seed Bomb. Golem is a good candidate for providing hazard support as it also deals with opposing Flying- and Fire-type Pokemon such as Braviary and Emboar, who would otherwise cause problems for Cacturne. Cacturne also appreciates dual screens support, as the extra bulk they provide can allow it to set up on Pokemon that would normally threaten it. Gardevoir is an excellent candidate as it can deal with Fighting-types fairly well, and it can use Healing Wish or Memento to further support Cacturne's sweep . Rotom-S is an unconventional candidate for this role, but it can deal with Flying-types such as Swellow and Braviary with greater ease thanks to its STAB Volt Switch.</p>


    I changed quite a lot...But it was mostly just tidying up the prose and removing all the sentence run on. Other than that, good job!
  3. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
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    umm, i looked through those changes and a lot are unnecessary
  4. Redew

    Redew
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
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    Add
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  5. Mafeking

    Mafeking channels his inner Wolverine
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Don't have time to do a full check but I'll be providing feedback on Redew's and stamping in a minute.

    That's a semi-colon, not a hyphen. XD

    Also, the wording of this is a bit strange to be separated by a semi-colon but I don't like the comma either. I would separate the two into different sentences and make the second one have more emphasis on the mindgames.

    Change made here is fine, but it should read "blowing by them" and one of the "with"s needs to be removed.

    Change made here is fine, but make Will-O-Wisp singular.

    "before it can use Taunt" imo.

    I get what you're saying here, but I think it's up to erisia to decide whether or not "with Water Absorb" is actually what he meant.

    Other things looked fine; good job both of you.

    [​IMG]
    GP (1/2)
  6. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    882
    Implemented redew's check, Mafeking's feedback, and parts of SkullCandy's check (a lot of it was subjective phrasing)
  7. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Deleting...
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
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    Second check coming up then. Placheholder.

    EDIT:

    Add
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    Show Hide
    Taking over this as The3DOstrich hasn't updated the thread in a while, and I got tennisace's and dtc's permission.

    Original set by The3DOstrich

    [​IMG]

    (add)[SET]
    Namename: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Sucker Punch
    move 3: Seed Bomb
    move 4: Substitute / Encore
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    ability: Water Absorb / Sand Veil
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Although Cacturne is normally used as an offensive Spikes user, it can also make an excellent sweeper that can ravage teams that lack a response to it. Cacturne excels at playing mindgames with opponents by using Substitute and Sucker Punch, and can easily force them into making bad decisions that could cost them the game. Walls such as Regirock and Wartortle that may normally try and set[space]up against Cacturne, assuming it to be a utility Pokemon, will be in for a nasty surprise as Cacturne sets up with Swords Dances instead, blowing by them with ease after a boost. After a single Swords Dance and maximum Attack investment, it reaches a devastating Attack stat of 658, and although Cacturne lacks speed Speed even with investment, STAB Sucker Punch will hit most faster Pokemon for significant damage. Even with Leftovers, Cacturne's power seriously threatens offensive teams, although a Life Orb can be used instead to threaten bulky Pokemon when at +2. The Speed EVs and Jolly nature allow it to outspeed defensive Misdreavus and other defensive Pokemon within that speed Speed tier, and use Substitute to block Will-O-Wisp and other status conditions, as well as outspeed Skuntank before it can use Taunt. If you choose to use Encore, this investment also makes it more effective and gives Cacturne more chances to set up. While Cacturne faces competition from Absol due to its higher Speed and access to Superpower, Cacturne's immunity to Water-type attacks, particularly Scald, in addition to STAB Seed Bomb that can OHKO Quagsire without any boosts, give it more utility on teams that have issues with Water-type Pokemon.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>When using a Life Orb, Cacturne's HP will be drained quicly quickly after multiple attacks, especially if it uses Substitute. In this case, it may be more prudent to use Encore to conserve Cacturne's HP and to allow it to fire off more attacks. It should also be noted that Encore, and other coverage moves such as Drain Punch, are illegal with the Water Absorb ability and must be used with Sand Veil instead, but their extra utility may make them worth using despite this disadvantage, especially if your team already packs a solid response to Water-type Pokemon. Speaking of Drain Punch, the type coverage it provides allows it to break through Steel-type Pokemon,[add comma] such as Probopass and Bastiodon,[add comma] more quickly than Seed Bomb. Brick Break can also be used to provide this coverage; although it doesn't provide HP recovery, it remains compatible with Water Absorb. If you don't want to invest so much in Cacturne's lackluster speed Speed, an EV spread of 184 HP / 136 Atk / 32 Def / 32 SpD / 124 Spe with an Adamant nature still allows Cacturne to outspeed uninvested base 65 Speed Pokemon, while maintaining its attacking power and providing significantly better bulk.</p>

    <p>Cacturne can certainly devastate teams if given the chance, but it helps to remove its checks and counters in advance before attempting to sweep. Tangela can wall Cacturne effortlessly even as it accrues boosts, and can cut it down with Hidden Power Ice, but packing a Magmortar on your team can make it less of an issue. Fighting-type Pokemon are a big problem for Cacturne as they resist Sucker Punch and can easily OHKO Cacturne easily with their STAB moves. Misdreavus can switch into Sawk with impunity and burn it with Will-O-Wisp, while Haunter can threaten to KO it with Sludge Bomb when Sturdy isn't active (you can change this to "is nullified" or "has been nullified" instead, but I leave it up to you. It sounds more accurate IMO though). Throh and Gurdurr are more persistent threats as they can take even boosted Seed Bombs with ease and cannot be dealt with via status attacks due to their Guts ability. Musharna deals with them expertly, taking relatively little damage from Payback due to its abysmal Speed stat and hitting them hard with STAB Psychic. Ninjask is an unexpected but extremely problematic Pokemon for Cacturne to face, as its Substitutes aren't broken by Seed Bomb without a boost, and it can bypass Sucker Punch with a Substitute of its own before Baton Passing to a teammate. Golem is a decent response in a lead match-up, as it can use Stealth Rock to deter it from switching in, or use Rock Blast to kill it directly (Golem has Roar as well, maybe worth a mention?). Bastiodon can also use Stealth Rock, and can use Roar on Ninjask before it can successfully Baton Pass to a teammate.</p>

    <p>While Cacturne doesn't necessarily force a lot of switches, the residual damage caused by Stealth Rock can be helpful in securing OHKOs in the late game. For instance, after Stealth Rock damage, all Sawk are OHKO'd by +2 Seed Bomb, and other Pokemon with the Sturdy ability (or a Focus Sash equipped) become more vulnerable. Golem is a good candidate for providing hazard support as it also deals with opposing Flying- and Fire-type Pokemon,[add comma] such as Braviary and Emboar, who would otherwise cause problems for Cacturne. Cacturne also appreciates Dual Screens support, as the extra bulk they provide can allow it to set up on Pokemon that would normally threaten it; Gardevoir is an excellent candidate as it can deal with Fighting-types fairly well, and it can use Healing Wish or Memento to support Cacturne's sweep further if necessary. Rotom-S is an unconventional candidate for this role, but it can deal with Flying-types such as Swellow and Braviary more easily due to its STAB Volt Switch.</p>


    Quick little check. Let's get this sucker up.

    GP Approved 2/2

    [​IMG]
  8. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    Implemented, but there may be some spacing errors.
  9. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken GANONBOARF
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    this is my first upload in a whileee

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