Cacturne

CanadianWifier

Run Away With Me
Give 'em the Caaaaaack.

[OVERVIEW]
Cacturne is a powerful mixed attacker with access to multiple boosting moves and priority in the form of Sucker Punch. Water Absorb gives it opportunities to switch in against bulky Water-types such as Lanturn, Quagsire, and Prinplup, and an immunity to Scald in particular is amazing. Cacturne also sports resistances to many common priority moves in NU, such as Sucker Punch and Aqua Jet. Its access to Spikes, Water Absorb, and Counter makes it a very effective Spikes lead on hyper offense. However, its low Speed makes it rather easy to revenge kill, and makes it difficult to outright sweep teams due to its over-reliance on Sucker Punch. It's also very frail due to its poor defensive typing and lackluster bulk. Sadly, Cacturne has no access to a reliable physical Dark-type STAB move as has neither Crunch nor Knock Off, which makes it harder to pull off a Swords Dance set effectively.

[SET]
name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Dark Pulse
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Sucker Punch
move 4: Spikes / Destiny Bond
item: Life Orb
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Rash
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Giga Drain gives Cacturne a way to recover health lost from entry hazards and Life Orb while offering it a powerful Grass-type attack. Dark Pulse is a secondary STAB option and is very useful for nailing NU's bulky Psychic-types such as Uxie, Mesprit, Xatu, and Musharna. Sucker Punch is a very useful form of priority, nailing frail faster Pokemon such as Archeops, Swellow, and Magmortor. Spikes is great in the last slot, as it allows Cacturne to work as an offensive Spikes setter by using Spikes on a predicted switch to a check or counter such as Mega Audino, Mawile, or Hariyama. Destiny Bond is another option in the last slot, as it allows Cacturne to take care of slower Pokemon that normally beat it such as Hariyama and Mega Audino. Substitute is also an option, as it allows Cacturne to take full advantage of the many switches it forces against slower walls. Sucker Punch is also fantastic from behind a Substitute, as the opponent is forced to break it.

Set Details
========

Maximum Special Attack investment allows Cacturne to hit as hard as possible with its most reliable STAB moves. The investment allows 2HKOs on physical walls that are likely to switch in expecting a physical attacking set, such as Vileplume and Gourgeist. Water Absorb grants Cacturne free opportunities to switch in to most Water-types in the tier, such as Mantine, Lanturn, Prinplup, and Quagsire. Life Orb is used to maximize Cacturne's damage output. Leftovers aren't that useful as Cacturne is frail to begin with, and Cacturne gets enough recovery from Giga Drain anyway.

Usage Tips
========

Dark Pulse is the most spammable move on this set, as it will often surprise opponents whose first reaction is to switch in a physical wall. Dark-type attacks are also very difficult to switch into in NU due to the lack of defensive Fairy-, Fighting-, and Dark-types. Cacturne is most effective during the middle of the game, as it can break down bulky Pokemon on the opponent's team, allowing for an easier sweep late-game by a teammate. Destiny Bond is a great way to lure in and dispose of Hariyama, which can open up a door for a teammate to sweep. Spikes is best used early on, as they rack up more damage throughout the battle. While Cacturne can typically switch into most Water-types, it still needs to be wary because most of them carry a coverage or status move that would cripple Cacturne.

Team Options
==========

Most opponents will expect a physically offensive Swords Dance Cacturne, which makes this specially offensive set very effective at luring in and getting damage off on physically defensive Grass-type and Flying-type Pokemon. Teammates that appreciate these Pokemon worn down include Sawk, Hariyama, Malamar, and Kecleon. Teammates that can switch into the Fighting-type attacks that force out Cacturne are greatly appreciated. Gourgiest, Togetic, and defensive Rotom-S are all viable options. Bulky Pokemon that resist Bug are also useful to switch into the U-turns that force Cacturne out. Sneasel and Tauros appreciate the wallbreaking and Spikes that Cacturne provides, as both are quite fast and can easily clean up weakened teams late-game.


[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Seed Bomb
move 3: Sucker Punch
move 4: Drain Punch
item: Life Orb
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Swords Dance is used to boost Cacturne's already impressive Attack to frightening levels to help facilitate a potential sweep. Seed Bomb is the most reliable physical STAB attack Cacturne has, as it isn't reliant on what move the opponent goes for, unlike Sucker Punch. Sucker Punch hits faster Pokemon very hard, especially at +2, making it very difficult to revenge kill Cacturne with frail Pokemon such as Magmortor, Archeops, and Swellow. Drain Punch provides useful coverage for Pokemon such as Probopass, Klinklang, and Ferroseed, which would otherwise wall Cacturne. Drain Punch also has the added benefit of recovering HP while attacking. Dropping Drain Punch for Substitute is an option, as it lets Cacturne not only evade status but also force opponents to walk directly into Sucker Punches. Substitute also provides a nice buffer against faster foes, and it's Cacturne's best way to take advantage of opponents who switch predicting a Seed Bomb, as Sucker Punch won't work on the switch.

Set Details
========

An Adamant nature adds a very noticeable boost in power, and because Cacturne is very reliant on Sucker Punch it's the preferred nature to go with. Maximum investment in Attack and Speed is used to boost Cacturne's offensive prowess. Life Orb is used for its noticeable boost in power; however, if Substitute is used over Drain Punch, Leftovers can be used, as residual damage adds up very quickly, and without Drain Punch Cacturne has no way to recover health.

Usage Tips
========

Don't try to set up with Cacturne early-game or if the opponent still has a faster check such as Sawk or Sneasel, as Cacturne should be saved for late-game when everything is either slower than it or is knocked out by a Sucker Punch. Switching in on defensive Water-types, such as Lanturn, Quagsire, and Prinplup, is the most reliable setup opportunity, as Cacturne can generally Swords Dance as the opponent switches out.

Team Options
========

Entry hazard support helps Cacturne a lot. Sticky Web allows for an easier sweep that's less reliant on Sucker Punch, while Spikes and Stealth Rock help Cacturne claim KOs it wouldn't otherwise get, such as unboosted Sucker Punch KOing Archeops after Stealth Rock. Pairing Cacturne with Pokemon that lure out and weaken potential stops are appreciated. Pokemon such as Natural Gift Leafeon, Ice Punch Gurdurr or Sawk, and Scyther can weaken bulky Grass-types throughout the game, making it much easier for Cacturne to sweep later on.


[SET]
name: Spikes Lead
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Counter
move 3: Sucker Punch
move 4: Seed Bomb / Encore
item: Focus Sash
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Spikes quickly wears down grounded Pokemon on the opposing team. Counter allows Cacturne to claim a quick KO against physical attackers that will try to attack Cacturne in an attempt to limit the number of Spikes it sets up, such as Scyther and Sawk. Sucker Punch allows Cacturne to get off one last attack versus faster foes, dealing severe damage to many frail Pokemon. It also prevents Cryogonal from using Rapid Spin or Freeze-Dry on Cacturne. Seed Bomb gives Cacturne an attacking move that isn't reliant on what the opponent goes for, and it also allows Cacturne to 2HKO opposing lead Archeops. Seed Bomb allows Cacturne to take on Rhydon, which is a common Stealth Rock lead, and prevent Prinplup from Defogging for free. It also gives Cacturne a way to deal with defensive Water-types, which Cacturne can take on thanks to Water Absorb. Encore can be used to lock an opposing lead into an unfavourable move, and it also works nicely with Counter. If the opposing Pokemon attempts to set up to avoid Counter, Cacturne can simply Encore them into that move and set up even more Spikes.

Set Details
========

Focus Sash guarantees Cacturne will always be able to get off one attack versus faster Pokemon. It also allows Cacturne to make better use of Counter. Maximum Speed investment gives Cacturne the best chance at setting up as many Spikes as possible, while maximum Attack investment allows Seed Bomb and Sucker Punch to hurt the opponent's team.

Usage Tips
========

Lead with Cacturne and try to set up as many layers of Spikes as you can. If the opponent has a lead Uxie, it's often best to use Encore to limit the number of things it can set up. If the opponent has a lead Archeops, it's best to 2HKO it with Seed Bomb. If the opponent sends out a Sandslash or Cryogonal, it's often better to KO them than to attempt to spinblock. Go for Counter against opposing lead Scyther, as they will most likely go for U-turn and it will grant Cacturne a free KO.

Team Options
========

Hyper offensive teams appreciate the entry hazard support, so pairing Cacturne with offensive Pokemon is the best way to go. Examples include Mesprit, Sawk, Tauros, Scyther, Rotom, Lilligant, and Samurott. Pawniard can be used alongside Cacturne as a way to discourage opponents from going for Defog and removing the entry hazards. Ghost-types such as Rotom and Mismagius are great partners as they can block Rapid Spin from opposing Pokemon trying to remove the entry hazards.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Poison Jab is a decent option for the mixed set, as it hits Togetic and Mega Audino super hard, both of which Cacturne otherwise couldn't touch. Focus Punch can be used along with Substitute as a way to take advantage of the switches Cacturne forces; however, it's much less useful than Drain Punch on most sets. Encore can be used on the Swords Dance set, as it forces switches and grants free Swords Dances; however, Substitute is generally a better way to take advantage of free switches. A Nasty Plot set can also work, but it's outclassed by other Nasty Plot users in the tier such as Mismagius and Chatot due to Cacturne's low Speed and lack of any special priority moves. Spiky Shield is a cool option to punish physical attackers such as Scyther and Sawk, as neither appreciates having any prior damage on them. Thunder Punch can be used on the Swords Dance set as a way to hit Flying-types such as Pelipper, Fletchinder, Swellow, Scyther, and Xatu on the switch.

Checks & Counters
=============

**Fairy-types**: Togetic can come in versus any set without Poison Jab and threaten to 2HKO with Dazzling Gleam. Granbull also does an effective job of tanking any hit from the Swords Dance set; however, it must watch out for Giga Drain from the mixed set. Mawile can also switch into any attack from the Swords Dance set but is 2HKOed by Dark Pulse from the mixed set. It's a full counter to the Swords Dance set and a soft check to the mixed set, as it can be 2HKOed by Dark Pulse.

**Poison-types**: Bulky Poison-types such as Weezing, Vileplume, and Garbodor can switch in with ease against the Swords Dance set and threaten out Cacturne with their STAB attacks; however, they must be wary of Dark Pulse from the mixed set, as they all get cleanly 2HKOed.

**Fighting-types**: Bulkier Fighting-types such as Gurdurr can switch in and KO with Mach Punch or even take a hit from Cacturne and KO with Drain Punch. Hariyama also takes on the mixed set with ease, but crumbles to the Swords Dance set.

**Faster Pokemon that Resist Dark**: Faster Pokemon such as Sneasel and Sawk can survive even a boosted Sucker Punch and KO with their STAB attacks. With Eviolite, Sneasel can switch into the mixed set with relative ease.

**Priority Users**: Pokemon such as Sneasel, Fletchinder, Kangaskhan, and Zangoose can bypass Cacturne's Sucker Punch with their own priority and can OHKO it with their STAB moves. Other priority users such as Gurdurr and Piloswine can force Cacturne to use Sucker Punch to avoid a stronger hit from a Grass-type attack.
 
Last edited:

boltsandbombers

i'm sorry mr. man
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**Spiritomb** Spiritomb can switch-in vs the SD set and burn it even through the Substitute with Infiltrator.

10/10

jk, aside from the mentions of banned mons I agree that this is a pretty solid skeleton to work with.
 
I like to use it with sand veil + hippopotas. It can take on some of NU's biggest threats such as hariyama. It can set up spikes and use leech seed to get health back.
 
  • Bullet Seed allows you to beat opposing Lead Omastar who try to stake hazards against you, and it also prevents you from being taunt bait.

Omastar the big NU threat :)

when you do update this, change the 2nd set to Water Absorb > Sand Veil and Seed Bomb > Bullet Seed. Nothing you really need to bullet seed without omastar, maybe if Golem gets popular (it wont)

Spikes Lead
########
name: Spikes Lead
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Seed Bomb
move 3: Sucker Punch
move 4: Destiny Bond / Counter / Encore
ability: Water Absorb / Sand Veil
item: Focus Sash
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly


Cacturne is a cool mon, but all these Virizions arent nice to it :(
 

CanadianWifier

Run Away With Me
THIS IS FINALLY UPDATED AND READY FOR QC :toast:

lol at all the mentions of Omastar, Spiritomb, Slurpuff, and Poison Point Dragalge... r i p
 

CanadianWifier

Run Away With Me
Also not sure if the spikes lead has any merrit because, despite the fact NU just lost a ton of viable spikers, we still have Qwilfish who has access to D-band, taunt, and is faster; and we also still have Crustle who obviously has Rocks as well.

idk if it deserves a set anymore.
 
Last edited:

Ares

Fool me...can't get fooled again
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Eh, I think a mention in moves on the mixed Life Orb set for spikes should be the best it gets. I rarely find myself going for spikes when damage is much better in most cases as well as the fact that if I wanted spike offense than there are other bulkier setters that I would consider over Cacturne for solely spikes. A decent option, but not slash or set worthy imo.

Or maybe just an oo mention cause you lose water absorb :<

Edit: I read your outdated analysis and it said that spikes weren't compatible (or that might of just been bullet seed)
 
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CanadianWifier

Run Away With Me
Eh, I think a mention in moves on the mixed Life Orb set for spikes should be the best it gets. I rarely find myself going for spikes when damage is much better in most cases as well as the fact that if I wanted spike offense than there are other bulkier setters that I would consider over Cacturne for solely spikes. A decent option, but not slash or set worthy imo.

Or maybe just an oo mention cause you lose water absorb :<
wait do you really lose water absorb if you go with spikes? I thought it was XY egg move, which would mean it's totally compatible with WA
just looked it up, it's literally a level up move at lv 30. I still don't think it deserves a slash on any set, let alone a main set, but I'll mention it first in OO.
 

Blast

Member of the Alien Nation
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Spikes seems okay on Mixed, it's probably okay since it's one of the only ways to accomplish ~something~ on an incoming Virizion. That and Destiny Bond should at least be bumped up from OO to Moves (I still don't care much for Sub but eh)

You don't have to mention Nasty Plot in the Overview since it's not anywhere on any of the main sets. Also I wouldn't say it's difficult to sweep teams just because it's slow, SD + STAB Sucker Punch is perfectly capable of sweeping. I'd just say it tends to make it rely too heavily on Sucker Punch most of the time.

The last point doesn't really make sense. It makes it sound like SD Cacturne is a bad set, which it's not, and Dark Pulse is a reliable Dark STAB that it gets (+ Mixed is straight-up on the analysis lol)

I'd say Dark Pulse is more spammable than Giga tbh, a lot less Pokemon resist it and most people won't be expecting to be hit with a Dark move on the switch

Why is Sticky Web in Usage Tips of the SD set?

Both sets need more teammates too
 

CanadianWifier

Run Away With Me
fixed / implemented all but dbond cause idk how it would actually help a slowass like Cacturne.

ready for more corrections
 
I still think the Spikes lead set deserves to be there, ive played with it quite a bit, and its a nice offensive Pokemon. I would make Counter the primary slash on the last move now, cause if you keep your sash up, you can make some Virizion's really angry :)

Its a nice Pokemon on offensive teams, when you don't need Spikes 100% of the time, and the sash lets it function really well early game. I think it should be the third set

Also give Virizion a super special mention in C&C because of how hard it beats thing thing if you dont Counter it :)
 
I'm just saying my two cents, but in the past through my testing, Cacturne's utility best shines between Spikes and Destiny Bond as filler. Substitute has incredibly minimal utility especially since Cacturne's forced switches can be abused already between high powered attacks and a Sucker Punch, leaving it with little counters in NU anyways. DBond and Spikes on the other hand give Cacturne a whole new level of utility, making it one of the few viable offensive Spikes mons available to support HO teams, or the ability to remove any single pokemon which trys to attack it, often giving your sweepers a major advantage.
 

CanadianWifier

Run Away With Me
Eh, I think a mention in moves on the mixed Life Orb set for spikes should be the best it gets. I rarely find myself going for spikes when damage is much better in most cases as well as the fact that if I wanted spike offense than there are other bulkier setters that I would consider over Cacturne for solely spikes. A decent option, but not slash or set worthy imo.
Did some limited testing actually a few nights ago, I found that while Substitute is kinda meh in the 4th slot, I still find it more useful than Spikes. without Virizion anymore, there isn't really a turn I would rather being going for Spikes than just nailing something with a super hard Dark Pulse.

Basically, agreeing with mont here, but I've seen a lot of love for Spikes so I want additional onions on the matter: Slash, Moves, or OO? I'm leaning towards moves.
 

boltsandbombers

i'm sorry mr. man
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Sorry this has been sitting around for over a month lol, I'll give it a look. Lets get this up on the dex asap since if shiftry drops down this thing is going to be outclassed as hell :(

blast edit: DON'T JINX THAT LOL

First off, I really dislike sub on mixed cacturne since its so slow and combined with life orb recoil it wears down cacturne more than you should, and I'd like to see it dropped to a moves mention and not a slash. What should replace it is Destiny Bond, an incredibly useful utility move that allows cacturne to dispatch of slower threats that would usually stay in like hariyama, garbodor (if you run naive which should be in set details), vileplume, muk, etc
I personally feel that it deserves a slash on the 4th slot, but whether that or spikes is first I dont mind.
Put Poison Jab in OO since it realistically only has one target and togetic isnt that common.

In usage tips for mixed, say that while it can typically switch into most water types it needs to be wary since most of them carry a coverage or status move that would cripple cacturne.
  • If you can get up a substitute, Cacturne become much more threatening, as it helps mitigate Cacturne's low Speed and reliance on taking a hit before attacking this doesnt tell me how to use cacturne, you're more just stating a fact here - it would be better to say what you can set up a sub versus. Sucker Punch is also very spammable from behind a Substitute.
Add another bullet point in team options since the rule of thumb is to have at least 3, maybe something about mons that appreciate spikes support. Do this for the other sections as well, shouldnt be too difficult to think of something.

Minor nitpick, 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def -> 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
  • Life Orb is used over Leftovers due to Cacturne's frailty and Life Orb's noticeable boost in power.
Saying that its used over leftovers isnt necessary, just say that life orb gives a solid boost in power.
**Fairy-types**: Togetic can come in versus any set and threaten to 2HKO with Dazzling Gleam. Togetic walls both the Swords Dance set and the mixed set, effectively making Cacturne useless, barring the rare Poison Jab. Granbull also does an effective job of tanking any hit after an intimidate, and KO back with a Play Rough; however, it must watch out for Giga Drain from the mixed set.
The way the part with granbull is worded implies that mixed is a less common / lower set on the analysis since you'd typically "watch out" for something if its less common. Try and reword this to say that Granbull handles the swords dance set, but struggles with the mixed set.
**Poison-types**: Bulky Poison-types such as Weezing, Vileplume, and Garbodor can switch-in with ease against the Swords Dance set and threaten out Cacturne with their STAB attacks.
Add here that they all take a crapload from LO dark pulse from the mixed set.
**Faster Dark-type Resists**: Faster pokemon such as Sneasel and Sawk can live even a boosted Sucker Punch, and KO with their STAB attacks.
Note here that they are primarily revenge killers since they dont like switching into cacturne's attacks, and to an extent eviolite sneasel can chew hits from mixed cacturne.

Fix up your spacing a bit, there's some unnecessary empty lines here and there.
This looks good, let me know when you do this stuff or if you have any questions with my changes and I'll take another look to stamp.
 
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Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
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Mawile should be in the Fairy-type section, though do note that offensive Mawiles take a significant amount from mixed Cacturnes.

Hariyama should also be in the Fighting-type section as it takes on the mixed set very well. It does fold to the Swords Dance set though.

Seed Bomb on the lead set could see more mention in terms of its traditional lead matchup; it can scare off most SR leads such as Rhydon and Seismitoad, while also keeping Prinplup from trying anything.

Implement this and boltsandbombers's changes, and QC 1/3.
 

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