1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Call of the Wild

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by MetaGross66, Jul 1, 2010.

  1. MetaGross66

    MetaGross66

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2007
    Messages:
    551
    [​IMG]Call of the Wild[​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Hello members of Smogon and thanks for opening up this RMT. What I have here is an anti-metagame offensive team. It uses two U-turners to keep its momentum, three priority users should the team need to revenge kill something, and two Substitute users to keep the opposition at its knees on a switch hoping to gain the advantage through such an action. This team also utilizes an aspect that one won't find in the average team and that is the element of surprise. It has the potential to be the deciding factor of who wins the match. However, I tried not to make it too far away from the standard to consistently win. As a matter of fact, this team has peaked at #8 on the leaderboard with a CRE of about 1657 under the name 0.exe (a reference to Megaman ^_^).

    [​IMG]
    Venomoth
    [​IMG] | [​IMG]
    6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Tinted Lens
    Modest
    - Bug Buzz
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Sleep Powder
    - U-turn
    ---
    Venomoth is my unconventional lead and is the first Pokemon you'll see on my team that should be considered anti-metagame given how rare Lum Berry leads are today. It starts the battle off with a Sleep Powder in most cases. Starting a match 5-6 is always beneficial to an offensive team and so putting a Pokemon out of commission through Sleep is an excellent way for my offensive team to gain its momentum. U-turn hits just about everything for Neutral damage and also gives me a light hit on the switchin, sort of like what Stealth Rocks would do if they were up early game. Generally, I will scout with U-turn after the Sleep Powder, but if I have battled my opponent before, I will take my actions according to my knowledge of the person's team. This is where Venomoth becomes deadly as nothing can really switch into a STAB Bug Buzz that hits almost everything in the tier for Neutral/Super Effective damage; especially when I know the opponent will send in a "resist". Sludge Bomb is here to cover any Moltres gutsy enough to switch in expecting a Bug Buzz. Life Orb gives Venomoth's attacks that extra kick and a Modest nature is used to guarantee a 2KO on lead Spiritomb while also giving me a chance to OHKO Mesprit with Bug Buzz since more and more are starting to run Lum Berry.

    The magic behind this set is that it will never lose to another lead barring those that are faster. If anything tries to switch in on Venomoth's Bug Buzz or Sludge Bomb it is either getting severely hurt or has to fight something else on this team. My teammates can either come in and start bashing things or even set up on Venomoth's common switchins and start a sweep. For example, the standard Suicide Spiker Qwilfish takes 24% - 28.1% from Venomoth's U-turn. Manectric can come in and grab a free boost due to the fact U-turn puts Qwilfish into Manectric's Charge Beam KO range. That right there is true synergy. Venomoth, like all leads, is not without its faults. Ambipom and Alakazam cause it major troubles. Mesprit can handle both by either attacking with Psychic or U-turning to a priority user. Of course, this puts me in a bad position early in the game with about 1/3 of my team revealed, but it's worth it to make sure Venomoth can put at least one of the opponent's Pokemon out later in the game.

    [​IMG]
    Hitmonlee
    [​IMG] | [​IMG]
    6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
    Limber
    Adamant
    - Close Combat
    - Substitute
    - Sucker Punch
    - Rock Slide
    ---
    I admit, I stole this set from Thund, but Hitmonlee would be quite obvious as a partner to Venomoth and for several reasons. Firstly is its ability, Limber. It prevents Paralysis, something Venomoth attracts giving Hitmonlee many opportunities to switch in and start killing things. Secondly is that Venomoth can't get through Registeel and it happens to be scared of Hitmonlee. This is where Substitute comes in. After feigning a scarf for a little while I can Substitute on a Registeel and start bringing the house down. Close Combat carries tons of power and hurts even things that resist it after a little bit of residual damage. Milotic and Donphan are both 2KOed due to its Adamant nature. Rock Slide was chosen over Stone Edge because Stone Edge has crappy PP and accuracy. Spiritomb and Rotom can just stall it out of its precious PP with Pressure and Substitute respectively. This is why I believe Rock Slide is the superior option. It still kills Moltres, but with less of a chance of missing which is golden in my book. The flinch chance also comes in handy once in a while. Sucker Punch compliments Substitute perfectly. Substitute forces Ghosts like Mismagius to attack me. Behind the safety of my Substitute I have the choice of Sucker Punching or handing it a Rock Slide to the face. Rock Slide is usually the superior option since they'll Substitute first thinking they're the smarter one at which point Rock Slide turns into a guaranteed 2KO while I'm still in my Substitute. >_>

    Problems for Hitmonlee include Pokemon like Venusaur, Spiritomb, and Weezing all of which are set up bait for Houndoom. If the opponent doesn't have one of these 3 or a reliable revenge killer, Hitmonlee is sweeping and if Milotic is weakened enough by Hitmonlee or U-turn damage, Houndoom is sweeping. This is the kind of offensive synergy that would utterly destroy Stall and give Offense huge problems.

    [​IMG]
    Manectric
    [​IMG] | [​IMG]
    6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Static
    Timid
    - Flamethrower
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Charge Beam
    ---
    Manectric fills my coverage role. As a matter of fact, I have been finding it more productive than Raikou was last round despite general inferiority. This is due to its superior coverage. Of course, it wishes it had Fire Blast to grab the KO on Venusaur without a boost, but Flamethrower is still usable and gets good coverage alongside Grass and Electric hitting things like Venusaur and Registeel for Super Effective damage. Actually, I think the three moves get the most Super Effective coverage in UU hitting a total of eight types for Super Effective damage. Of these eight types that are hit for Super Effective damage three are well known in UU, and they are the prominent Grass, Fire, and Water types that have manifested themselves in this environment as the most effective core you will find in UU. Manectric breaks that core so easily, and that is why I have come to like it more than Raikou.

    Understand that Manectric, sitting at 105 Base Speed, is pretty fast. Unfortunately, its Base 105 Special Attack is a little underwhelming by itself. With a Life Orb attached and a Charge Beam boost given, it reaches a terrifying Special Attack stat of 570. This gives it the opportunity to rip apart Balanced and Offensive teams alike. If the opponent attempts to use priority to kill off Manectric, then Static will usually come into play giving Manectric a 30% chance to paralyze the opponent as a gift to remember it by.
    The EV spread is standard at 252/252 in the appropriate stats because it's a sweeper and speed tying with Scyther is really important if Stealth Rocks isn't down.

    [​IMG]
    Houndoom
    [​IMG] | [​IMG]
    128 Atk/252 Spd/128 SAtk
    Flash Fire
    Hasty
    - Dark Pulse
    - Fire Blast
    - Nasty Plot
    - Sucker Punch
    ---
    "Long ago, people imagined its eerie howls to be the call of the grim reaper." Its Pokedex entry is correct. It comes in on a Will-O-Wisp aimed at Hitmonlee, grabs a free Nasty Plot (usually from Spiritomb or Weezing), and then blasts everything in sight with either a Fire Blast or Dark Pulse. Even resists to Fire Blast are 2KOed. Milotic takes a whopping 43% - 50.6% from this Houndoom's Fire Blast after a Nasty Plot and Flash Fire boost. That is some insane damage right there. Factor in the ease of setting it up on Pokemon both Hitmonlee and Mesprit lure in, and you have a vicious monster ready to smack down even Chansey. Sucker Punch prevents it from being revenge killed by the likes of Dugtrio, and with just 128 Attack EVs it's highly likely Dugtrio is getting OHKOed clearing the path for Manectric to sweep unhindered. Of course, Houdoom has one slight problem that is Technitop. It can revenge kill Houndoom with ease, unfortunately. This is where Mesprit and Venomoth come in. Venomoth is 4x resistant to Mach Punch so it'd be easy to smack something with Bug Buzz on the switch or even put it to sleep. If Hitmontop decides to stay in on the Sludge Bomb/Bug Buzz, it's within Houndoom's Sucker Punch KO range after factoring in Stealth Rocks and Life Orb damage. Mesprit has that ability to scout the switchin or even KO Hitmontop.

    Houndoom happens to be slower than Manectric, but can pose an even greater threat through Nasty Plot and priority. People underestimate Sucker Punch's power when coming off 95 Base Attack and STAB. It picks off weakened Sceptile, Scyther, and even some Arcanine that think they got me beat just because they have priority or are just faster. Houndoom really does a nice job at discouraging the opponent and has caused several reagequits. In all, it is a threat that people must watch out for.

    [​IMG]
    Azumarill
    [​IMG] | [​IMG]
    252 HP/240 Atk/16 Spd
    Huge Power
    Adamant
    - Substitute
    - Aqua Jet
    - Ice Punch
    - Focus Punch
    ---
    Azumarill is needed on every offensive team for a few reasons. Firstly is its natural ability to check Moltres, opposing Houndoom, and many other Fire types that would ravage most other offensive teams without it. Secondly is its excellent Attack stat and priority. Normally, one would choose Choice Band, but I'm using a Subpunch set because choice sets can cause me to lose momentum. Azumarill checks Moltres and Arcanine for me therefore forcing them to take SR damage and be KOed by other priority or take the Aqua Jet. Substitute eases prediction and withstands Seismic Toss and Night Shade with this EV spread. Focus Punch compliments it perfectly being my strongest move against Pokemon like Torterra, Milotic, and Registeel. Ice Punch is used over Waterfall so I can hurt those threatening Grass types.

    The EV spread helps to maximize bulk while also giving it enough speed to outpace Chansey and Registeel. With that, it can proceed to Substitute in their face and then fire of Focus Punches. Venusaur obviously gives it huge problems which is why I'm considering Ice Punch, but Mesprit can usually take the Grass attack and retaliate heavily with Psychic. Azumarill happens to be my weapon of choice along with Hitmonlee and Houndoom when facing Stall. They break it down together with Azumarill luring in Water types and breaking them down for Houndoom to finish off. Hitmonlee does much the same thing, but has more trouble with Spiritomb. Azumarill can easily set up on it, lure in the Water type weaken/kill it and/or go back to Hitmonlee for the forced switch. Houndoom can get its set up from there and sweep. In the rare case their bulky Water type happens to be Slowbro and I'm behind a Substitute, Houndoom comes in basically free (most use Psychic) and wrecks things.

    [​IMG]
    Mesprit
    [​IMG] | [​IMG]
    252 HP/68 Spd/188 SAtk
    Levitate
    Modest
    - Stealth Rock
    - Psychic
    - Grass Knot
    - U-turn
    ---
    Mesprit is my support/offense hybrid. It does defense well enough for me to check things like Alakazam and Ambipom while also supporting the team and giving it that offensive touch. Leftovers are to make up for the lack of a healing move and the moves give some good coverage alongside that outstanding defense. Psychic is there for STAB while Grass Knot is there to hurt those bulky Water type switchins. Stealth Rocks are there to support the team turning some 3KOs into 2KOs. U-turn is Mesprit's way of scouting. Mesprit was a controversial addition, but I eventually added it to loosen up those problems I'd have with Alakazam. I didn't want Spiritomb because its asking to be set up on by Rhyperior and Houndoom. Mesprit can at least U-turn out of both of them or even hurt the latter with Grass Knot. I play very suicidally with Mesprit as once its job is done it's done. Mesprit does a nice job as a scout giving Spiritomb another reason to switch in and another opportunity for Houndoom to set up and wreck house.

    The EV spread allows Mesprit to reach 213 Speed enough to outspeed bulky offensive Milotic so that it is forced to recover or get KOed. Standard Milotic is 2KOed by Grass Knot after Stealth Rock damage. 252 HP gives it all the bulk it needs as an offensive Pokemon while 188 Special Attack gives it that attacking power to guarantee a 2KO on any Venusaur.
  2. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,158
    This really is an amazing team Metagross. You've covered nearly all of the UU tier.

    You have slight Scyther problems however, as a good player will keep rocks off the field, and once Manectric is gone it can systemically wipe out your team.

    There isn't much you can do to change it, but I guess keeping the pressure on is the best bet. Keeping Manectric for that speed tie or keeping Houndoom and Scyther who can wear it down with priority is the best bet when facing it.
  3. Red Ink

    Red Ink

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2010
    Messages:
    28
    You don't hit fire for super effective. Unless you meant to run Hidden Power Water. In any case, you should run Hidden Power Water regardless. The drawback as the cost in 1 EV in each of speed and SAtk, which is a bummer.

    Just wanted to mention that quickly. I'll try and get on to a full rate. At a quick glance the team looks pretty well rounded though.
  4. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    2,079
    Neutral Thunderbolt does more damage to fire-types anyway (except lolcamerupt), while HP water leaves the set walled by Lanturn, Quagsire, and somewhat by Gastrodon. It's fine as is.

    Anyway...this is certainly a very good team. I can only see one systemic problem with this team: the lack of bulky grass resists.

    Why is this important? Three reasons: Torterra, Sceptile, and Leafeon.

    Let's start with Torterra. RP Torterra isn't much of a threat because it can't set up very easily on anything and does too much damage to itself with Wood Hammer and LO to kill more than one thing on your team. However, it WILL kill one thing on your team unless they switch it in on houndoom (>_>) because nothing else besides Houndoom can ohko it. Even Manectric falls short with Flamethrower on max HP variants, doing 80% max.

    Specs Sceptile, while rare, is an even bigger threat. If Venomoth is dead or at ~75% before SR (2 Specs Leaf Storms do an average of 53%), every time it comes in, something on your team dies. It's really as simple as that. Subseed Sceptile also stalls out two-three pokemon on your team pretty easily, although Mespirit's U-Turn will help somewhat (watch out for Leaf Storm).

    Finally, SD Leafeon give you huge grief; your only real chance is tying with Houndoom, otherwise it sweeps you handily.

    Now, there are a few things you can do about this. One, you could put Ice Punch on Azumarill, dropping Sub to make it more of an all-out bulky attacker. This will help prevent Leafeon and Torterra from getting anything to really set up on, although it will not help you against Sceptile. Second, you could move Mespirit to the lead position and replace Venomoth with a specially-defensive Tangrowth:

    Tangrowth @ Leftovers
    136 HP/252 SDEF/Rest into ATK or SATK
    Careful/Calm/Sassy
    -Power Whip/Grass Knot
    -Sleep Powder
    -Synthesis
    -HP Ice/Earthquake

    This fixes all of your grass issues, and gives you a reliable switch-in into Milotic (which I notice your current team also lacks). And unlike Venusaur, Tangrowth has enough of an offensive presence with its physical moves that not a lot can set up on it, so it should hopefully not lose you too much momentum. Beside Tangrowth the only thing I can really suggest is Offensive LO/Synthesis Venusaur, but that does not help a lot against Torterra or Leafeon (KO'd at +2) so I dunno.
  5. MetaGross66

    MetaGross66

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2007
    Messages:
    551
    I try not to reveal Manectric early unless I really need to revenge kill something with it. Scyther is a problem, but not so much that I've been swept by one. It just really threatens the team and has the potential to take down quite a few members if SR isn't up. If SR is up, any priority will be able to take it down really. If SR isn't up, Manectric is my best bet.

    Hidden Power Water lowers both Special Attack and Speed which is important for Manectric to speed tie with Scyther. Besides, it's hitting Fire types for almost as much damage as HP Water is with Thunderbolt. Flamethrower already does more damage to Steelix.

    Torterra takes a lot of damage if switching in on Azumarill as it subs (which is the only place I can see it set up). Azumarill then Focus Punches for 56.5% - 66.8%. Wood Hammer breaks the sub and puts it into Aqua Jet range, I believe. I don't know why anyone would want to set up on Venomoth, Houndoom, or Manectric knowing they have moves Super Effective to it. Hitmonlee just does too much damage and so does Mesprit. If it tries to set up on Azumarill after having its sub broken, then I can see where you're going. I usually sac Mesprit for purposes like that. As I mentioned, I play very suicidally with Mesprit. Besides, this team has never really fought a Torterra this round. If it did, it didn't lose any members because Azumarill was behind a Sub.

    Yeah, this is a huge threat and I usually sac something to Leaf Storm just to give Hitmonlee a free Sub or even set up Houndoom (yes!). If Venomoth is alive and Sleep Powder didn't miss first turn meaning they likely don't have SR up, I'll switch in Venomoth to either bash something on the switch or even kill their Sceptile (most people sac it not knowing how threatening it is, lol). If all is lost priority is enough to keep it in check. Houndoom does 59.6% - 70.2% with Sucker Punch so if it starts coming in a lot SR will take its toll and I can pick it off with Sucker Punch. Subseed thankfully doesn't hit as hard and so Mesprit and Venomoth can both just U-turn on it between each other. Only problem might be SR for Venomoth, but it does a good job of keeping it off the field early game.

    Manectric OHKOs this guy with Flamethrower doing 121.8% - 143.9% so this guy isn't as threatening as you say it is. Actually, I'd say it's the least threatening out of all of them since I have more than one way to play around it.

    Milotic can't really come in on anything. Grass types never really were much of a problem since Venusaur caused them to go into near extinction, but I can definitely see why you think they're threatening. Tangrowth doesn't provide much for the team Offensively. It's also an invitation for Venusaur which Azumarill seems to have more problems with than any other Grass type. So I dunno either. I haven't really felt they were a problem and maybe that's just because I played this team really offensively. Thanks for the rate anyway. I'll try it out to see if it does any good. ;)

    Edit: i'm going to go ahead and give Azumarill Ice Punch over Waterfall. Waterfall was pretty useless to me anyway. Houndoom eats Weezing. :)
  6. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    2,079
    No worries. I really just wanted you to see that you had some problems with grass pokes (and I thought you were using Modest manectric, which is why I thought leafeon was so threatening). If you think you can play around them without making too many changes then that's fine. Ice Punch should go a long way at any rate.
  7. Random Pizzaman

    Random Pizzaman

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2008
    Messages:
    803
    This is a very well built team with so much offensive synergy its unbelievable. A quick suggestion is all I can give, and that's Timid and Jolly on Venomoth and Hitmonlee, respectively. Venomoth benifits from Timid to tie Moltres and Sleep it early, as well as +Spe 80s, same for Hitmonlee, since outspeeding Venusaur is always nice.
    And that leads me to another thing you may have troubles with, SD Kabutops. You have plenty of priority to weaken it, but none of them are hitting that hard because of Kabutops' good defense (and Hitmonlee can't Sucker Punch Jolly ones anyway). Granted, it isn't setting up anywhere so it's not as big of a problem as Im making it out to be.
  8. SlottedPig

    SlottedPig

    Joined:
    May 16, 2009
    Messages:
    343
    Anti-metagame teams are truly my favorite, and the fact that this is eye-candy without being a typical RMT format just makes it better. *babbles about how wonderful this RMT is*

    Anyway you have an astonishing weakness to Timid Life Orb Milotic.

    Venomoth and Hitmonlee are outsped and KOd by Hydro Pump; Houndoom, Manetric, and Mesprit cannot switch in; and Azumarill does nothing against it.

    I recommend changing your Hitmonlee to Jolly with a Black Belt. You can outspeed Milotic and do heavy damage on it with Close Combat and retain your KO against Donphan and bulky Milotic; in fact you'll do more damage than your current version. The only time you'll lose power is when you hit something super effective - which means Moltres with Rock Slide. With Jolly, you can at least have the jump on Modest Moltres or Stall versions.

    Good luck with the team and thank you for making it such an enjoyable presentation.

    However you lose a point with your Venomoth lead. I can't take full credit of this Pinsir lead I've been thinking of ... darn you! D:
  9. IronBullet93

    IronBullet93 free as a bird
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,504
    Hey,

    Pretty decent team, and wonderful presentation. I'd suggest running a Timid nature on Venomoth, mainly to outspeed lead Uxie who invest in Speed as they could otherwise threaten you with Psychic of set up Stealth Rock. It also helps to beat Venusaur to the Sleep Powder.

    On Manectric, Charge Beam is, I feel, a bit unreliable to grab a boost. I'd suggest replacing Charge Beam with Substitute. It helps greatly against Dugtrio, and protects you from Status, which Manectric absolutely hates. You still get the 2HKO on Venusaur, and 2HKO on Registeel with a bit of prior damage.

    Very nice team, gl.
  10. MetaGross66

    MetaGross66

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2007
    Messages:
    551
    Thanks to all of you who rated. :)

    I'd first like to say that I have considered running Timid on Venomoth, but never Jolly on Hitmonlee. These are for a few reasons I should have mentioned in the RMT. A Modest nature on Venomoth allows it to have a chance at KOing Mesprit that tend to run less Speed than Venomoth does. More and more are using a Lum Berry and so that reduces Sleep Powder's effectiveness right there. Also, outspeeding Moltres and sleeping it is hardly worth it for switching Azumarill and grabbing me a free sub on the spot. Outspeeding Timid/Jolly Venusaur is really its only benefit to the team, though.

    Milotic is fried by Manectric, Azumarill subs on it and the Focus Punches it for tons of damage. Mesprit 2KOs it. My point is, it can't really switch in on anything aside from Houndoom if it hasn't grabbed a boost and Venomoth who is usually U-turning. If it happens to come in I can see it doing some damage although Azumarill should be enough to take it out through subbing/focus punching, switching out on the predictable HP Grass, etc.

    Kabutops has hardly been any problem and that's probably because I have yet to face one out of rain. You are right about it, though. I don't see it setting up on anything but Houndoom who if kept in can KO on the somewhat predictable SD.

    Again, running Timid on Venomoth for the sake of outspeeding Uxie isn't worth the drawbacks. Uxie actually outspeeds Venomoth if it's running max speed. If it's not running max speed it's safe to assume it's not running any speed at all. Also, the standard support Uxie happens to be unable to KO Venomoth with either of its STAB moves dealing 69% - 81.9% with Psychic and 73.3% - 87.5% with Zen Headbutt. Staying in on an Uxie to put it to sleep even with a Modest nature is well worth the risk I'd say.

    Replacing Charge Beam with Substitute isn't a bad idea, but I really like the raw power it gets even before a boost instead of relying on getting up to 25% health to get less of a boost than I'd be getting with a Charge Beam boost and a Life Orb boost. Of course it makes up for it with a status blocking mechanism, but many things spreading status (Slowbro, Venusaur, Registeel) are going to fear switching into a boosted Manectric anyway because of its awesome coverage moves. The only thing that will opt to switch in is Chansey which easily breaks its subs. So, really, it's a preference thing: more immediate power or more protection? This is a very offensive team so naturally, I'd choose the immediate power.

    Lastly is the issue of Adamant over Jolly on Hitmonlee. I should have been more clear. Milotic takes 51.9% - 61.3% from Adamant Hitmonlee Close Combat. With a Jolly nature 47.3% - 56%. That is a significant power loss and definitely one that should be noted due to the fact you won't 2KO Milotic unless it switches in on you and even then it isn't a guaranateed 2KO. Leftovers saves it if Hitmonlee is running Jolly. It can keep stalling until Close Combat lowers Hitmonless defenses enough for it to get KOed. With an Adamant nature is isn't outspeeding Venusaur and doesn't really need to since CC is resisted and its other attacks aren't doing that much. However, you do get a good chance to 2KO Milotic even if SR isn't down. Houndoom only needs it weakened, but having it completely out of the way is even better.
  11. Emerald Blaze

    Emerald Blaze

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    85
    -I think I've just had a battle with you yesterday. That, or someone else who was using your team (does the username FlameHeart ring a bell?).

    -Anyways, I've realized SubEncore Azumarill does was, surprisingly, a problem for this team. It came in on anything that wasn't Focus Punch on Azumarill, Encore the move, and Sub. Damage is assured after. Scyther was surpisingly a problem to face as well. I'm not suggesting anything as I can't think of anything, I'm just noting.

    -Outside of that, I find this team very impressive. Nice Job.:toast:
  12. MetaGross66

    MetaGross66

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2007
    Messages:
    551
    I didn't even log into Shoddy yesterday so it was another person (probably PK Gaming? :p). Of course, the person was probably using it wrong. Everything on the team has a move that 2KOs Azumarill barring Mesprit who does some good damage with Grass Knot/Psychic anyway. Did the guy switch out and give you a free sub or something? If he didn't Mesprit should have been able to handle Azumarill either way.

    Scyther is a problem, and I can imagine you've swept the guy with it.
  13. IronBullet93

    IronBullet93 free as a bird
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,504
    Actually, most Uxie who run speed tend to go for 236 EVs with an Impish nature, so that outspeeds Modest Venomoth. Just a nitpick.
    One of the biggest props of Substitute is its ability to beat Dugtrio, who absolutely destroys CB Manectric since it's unlikely that you would be spamming Hidden Power. It also lessens the need for prediction, and can be a life saver in some situations.
  14. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,158
    Choosing between Substitute and Charge beam is Manectric's biggest dilemma's. For one, Charge beam only has a 64% chance of being pulled off successfully (you've got to take into account CB miss rate + 70% of a boost) and even then, if they switch into an electric immunity, it feels wasted. Substitute lets you beat down those switch in's (like Donphan who is 2HKO by HP Grass) and eases prediction.

    Unfortunately, that power loss mean's you can't outright sweep because a 1+ Manectric is very difficult thing to stop. (save Chansey) so Metagross is right with the preference thing. When I used this team, I went strictly with Charge Beam, but I might consider running Substitute. Better safe than sorry!
  15. Pwnage

    Pwnage

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Messages:
    55
    I could see LO / Choice Band Tauros causing your team a few problems but nothing major. You probably can find a way to work around it.
  16. iKinkajou

    iKinkajou

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2010
    Messages:
    50
    I hate when people takes the words out of my mouth, or in this case, the letters I'm about to type.

    Tauros, CB'ed, could kill your team with a STAB return, seeing as you have no resistances to normal.

    Then again, Tauros wouldn't really appreciate getting hit with a Close Combat.
  17. MetaGross66

    MetaGross66

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2007
    Messages:
    551
    Yeah, Tauros causes trouble to just about any offensive team. I'd usually sac whatever's in while getting in a light hit with priority and then kill it with Mesprit. If Mesprit is weakened it has the potential to sweep me clean. Thankfully, it isn't common at all in UU.

    Edit: Actually, I've never faced one, but that still doesn't mean it isn't a threat.
  18. iKinkajou

    iKinkajou

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2010
    Messages:
    50
    Just another tip: Put more EVS in Special Attack, since you only have one Physical attack and two special attacks.
  19. I Abuse Smeargles

    I Abuse Smeargles

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    93
    He already explained why he has those Attack EV's on Houndoom, they are to OHKO Dugtrio with Sucker Punch.
  20. Achelion

    Achelion

    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Messages:
    20
    How do you deal with Alakazam leads? You can switch into Houndoom to be immune to Psychic, but you are just going to get Focus Blasted after it survives Sucker Punch. Switching to Mesprit means you are getting Shadow Balled the next turn. Keeping Venomoth in is a 1HKO. Ambipom causes trouble because you have no reliable normal resist/immunity. You also have no way to prevent/roar/haze boosters, which can cause a sweep.
  21. MetaGross66

    MetaGross66

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2007
    Messages:
    551
    I wish you guys would read the whole thing before posting, but I don't blame you considering how long it took me to write it up.

    As stated in the quote, Alakazam and Ambipom are a problem, but I'd switch straight to Mesprit for both. U-turn on the Taunt or Return from Ambipom and the Shadow Ball or Taunt from Alakazam. From there, it's priority.

    Edit: boosting mons are hardly a problem considering none if any can actually set up on any of my Pokemon.
  22. GucciCondom69

    GucciCondom69

    Joined:
    May 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8
    Team is pretty solid but i can see sub special Cm mismagius and Sub-3 attack alakazam lucky for you only one of these two threats are heavily used may i suggest you consider testing a a standard CB spiritomb ,this will not only give you a trick absorber but a decent check to psychic and ghosts such as the previous mentioned


    Spiritomb 252 hp 252 hp
    Pressure
    Adamant

    Pursuit
    sucker punch/ WoW
    Shadow sneak
    Trick

    Hope this helps you somehow best of luck in the ladder.
  23. MetaGross66

    MetaGross66

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2007
    Messages:
    551
    Omly problem with Spiritomb is that it invites things to set up on it like Rhyperior and opposing Houndoom. It also doesn't get Stealth Rocks like Mesprit does. I'd try it out if Mesprit didn't do a good enough job at handling the former already. Mismagius has to get past Houndoom, Azumarill, and Hitmonlee. It OHKOs none of them without a boost. Same goes for Manectric, Mesprit, and Venomoth so I just keep whatever's in to smack it hard or in Venomoth's case go straight to Azumarill with a U-turn while breaking the sub so I can give it an Aqua Jet.
  24. Achelion

    Achelion

    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Messages:
    20
    Switch to Mesprit and get Fake Out + Return, and Psychic + Shadow Ball are very lethal to Mesprit, both ripping about 80%~ or so off of its HP. If you U-Turn in Azumarill against Ambipom, you're still only going to do 38.4%~45.5% to him. Alakazam gets KOd by the Sucker Punch, but Ambipom is going to do a fair amount of damage to your team before he is KO'd. I feel like a Spiritomb is a much scarier lead with this team (immune to many of the top lead's moves), while still having access to a sleep move to nail their switch in.
  25. NightShadow

    NightShadow

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2010
    Messages:
    246
    this is right. hitmonlee almost requires jolly if it doesn't have scarf. however, i'm not so sure about timid venomoth. if you want +speed, then get naive/hasty (timid -atk and you have u-turn).

    personally for venomoth, i would put choice specs. choice specs+tinted lens equals destruction. also, because venomoth's sp.atk isn't that great.

    overall, really good offensive team.

    TELL ME WHERE YOU GOT THE PICS!

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)