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Can you give me any suggestions for my team?

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by TheConman, Dec 22, 2012.

  1. TheConman

    TheConman

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    Messages:
    7
    Hello Smogon. My name, as you can see, is TheConman. This is my first ever post and I'm pretty new to the competitive battling scene as well, so please forgive me if I make any rookie mistakes.
    This team is largely based on a hit-and-run strategy, with some some sponges to take hits.

    Changes are in red.

    The team at first glance:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    Haxorus @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk -SAtk)
    -Dragon Dance
    -Outrage
    -Earthquake
    -Brick Break

    Haxorus is the main heavy hitter of the team. Not much likes taking an Outrage from a boosted Haxorus. Max Atk for obvious reasons, 220 Spe gives it enough to outpace the likes of Dragonite, Heatran, and Rotom-W. The rest goes into HP to let it take hits a bit better. Adamant nature is again, pretty self-explanatory. Outrage for ridiculously powerful STAB, Earthquake for Tran among other Steel Types, Brick Break to hit Hydreigon and Tyranitar really hard, as well as being the only thing on the set to even dent Skarmory. Dragon Dance to take advantage of Espeon's Dual Screens.


    [​IMG]
    Espeon @ Light Clay
    Ability: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid (+Spe -Atk)
    -Reflect
    -Light Screen
    -Psychic
    -Hidden Power Fire​

    Espeon is mainly used to deflect entry hazards. It is also a stellar Breloom counter. Dual Screens Espeon lets the offensive team members switch in on some incoming attacks with relative ease then proceed to set up. Max HP to sponge hits, max Spe to get screens up before getting attacked, which Timid nature helps even more with, and the rest to Def because Espeon's physical defense needs all of the help it can get. Psychic for a STAB move, and even without SAtk EVs, a STAB Psychic coming off of a base 130 SAtk stat isn't anything to laugh at. Hidden Power Fire can hurt Ferrothorn and Forretress, which Espeon will be switching into a lot anyways.


    [​IMG]
    Hydreigon @ Expert Belt
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
    Nature: Rash (+SAtk -Def)
    -Draco Meteor
    -Fire Blast
    -Superpower
    -Dark Pulse

    Hydreigon is one of the hit-and-run pokemon on the team. Max SAtk for powerful Draco Meteors and Fire Blasts and Max Spe just to outspeed other things. Rash nature boosts SAtk without lowering Atk, and Hydreigon needs more physical defense to protect better against priority. Draco Meteor puts a dent in anything that wants to switch in. For an example, a Draco Meteor will do 32%-38% damage on a max HP max SDef Careful nature Skarmory. Fire Blast for Steel types, Superpower OHKOs Tyranitar and severely dents Blissey and Chansey, and Dark Pulse is to hit psychic types hard.


    [​IMG]
    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Nature: Relaxed
    -Gyro Ball
    -Spikes

    -Rapid Spin
    -Volt Switch​

    Forretress is for setting up hazards and Rapid Spinning, as well as taking Ice or Dragon type attacks directed at Haxorus and Hydreigon, and Bug type attacks directed at Celebi. Max HP for obvious reasons, and max Def because there is already another special wall on the team. Its Def is further enhanced by Relaxed nature. Gyro Ball for hitting incoming Dragon types trying to set up. Spikes for entry hazard support, and Rapid Spin to spin away entry hazards that Espeon couldn't deflect, mainly Tyranitar's Stealth Rock. Volt Switch is to keep a bit of momentum going, and since Forretress is so slow, it is pretty much guaranteed to absorb an oncoming attack before it Volt Switches out.

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spe
    Nature: Careful
    -Iron Head
    -Body Slam
    -Wish
    -Fire Punch

    Ah, Jirachi, perhaps the most annoying pokemon to battle against in the entire game. Max HP and 224 SDef to let it sponge special hits, while 32 Spe EVs give it enough speed to outrun Jolly Tyranitar. Iron Head and Body Slam for ParaFlinch, Fire Punch for burns and steel types, and wish for self-recovery or Wish-passing.

    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly
    -X-Scissor
    -Close Combat
    -Stone Edge
    -Rock Slide

    Terrakion's primary use on this team is to stop any Dragon/Flying types and Volcarona from setting up. It also hits Steel types extremely hard and is a fantastic revenge killer when scarfed. X-Scissor helps Terrakion deal with bulky Psychic and Grass types. Close Combat hits Steel types, and Stone Edge hits Flying types and Volcarona hard. Rock Slide is for situations where you must hit an attack, or when a bit of luck may get you a flinch to save the day.

    The team at final glance:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]



    Well that's my team. I have made several changes to it with the suggestions given to me, including changing specially defensive Celebi to specially defensive Jirachi and scarfed Infernape to Life Orb Infernape and then Terrakion. I would love any constructive criticism or advice. Remember, this is my first time ever making a post, and I am pretty new to competitive battling, so please forgive any mistakes I made either building the team or writing this. So fellow Smogon users, this has been TheConman. Please RMT.
  2. Shiny Charizard

    Shiny Charizard

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Messages:
    46
    Hey there, man. Since you rated my team, I thought it would be nice to return the favor. Looks like a pretty cool team, but there is some advice I can give you. First, I think Brick Break does a better job than Superpower here. Though a hit and run team, you can't stay in with Superpower. Haxorus has a hard time trying to get going, so just to ease things up in the long run. Next, I think that Espeon seems to be the weakest link to your team. I know dual screens can be valuable, but you lack some pure power, decent speed, and bulk without screens. Also, Espeon's greatness comes from bouncing back entry hazards with Magic Bounce. However, with Forretress here, it doesn't seem to have much use at all. I think that a Specially Defensive Jirachi could do wonders here. It can maintain nice bulk and can do quite well on offense. Its typing also resists Dragon and Ice type attack thy can annoy you. Serene Grace gives its STAB Iron Head a 60% time to flinch the opponent every time it attacks. The set also focuses on paralyzing opponents with Thunder Wave or 60% chance to paralyze Body Slam. Next is Celebi. Paralysis and support is well covered by Jirachi on this team, so I think that you can use CM Latias in its place. Latias can force a switch and use the free turn to set up. It's bulky enough to pull it off, so I think it could replace Celebi. Finally, I think you should remove the Scarf off of Infernape. Infernape has access to a priority move, which can be more effective than a Scarf. Mach Punch gets boosted from Iron Fist, and can replace maybe U-Turn? It seems the least necessary, as Thunderpunch is important to help you handle Jellicent. However, if you don't mind, you could change Hydreigon's item to Expert Belt, and Roost to Dark Pulse. If you go with this, then keep U-Turn, and change Thunderpunch to Mach Punch on Infernape. You are free to take my suggestions or not. Cool team, and gl!


    SETS

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP, 224 Def, 32 Spe
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Nature: Careful
    Moves:
    -Iron Head
    -Body Slam/Thunder Wave
    -Wish
    -Protect/Zen Headbutt

    Latias @ Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP, 252 Spe, 4 SpA
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Timid
    Moves:
    -Calm Mind
    -Recover
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Psyshock/Hidden Power Fire/Substitute
  3. ala

    ala
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    4,013
    Hey there, cool team! I have a couple of things in mind to make it even better :)

    Okay, so generally on teams with Dual Screen support (from Espeon in your case) you'd want to have at least a couple of set up sweepers to take advantage. Hit and run is perfectly fine but you'll really see results if you switch around some movesets.

    Small Moveset Changes

    Take Haxorus and give it either Dragon Dance or Swords Dance over Dual Chop. I love Choice Band Haxorus, but on a team like this I would rather set up. The screens will give you a ton of opportunities to use your set up move. Lum Berry is the best option since you can negate the Confusion induced by Outrage. The set up move is completely up to you, Dragon Dance is useful against more offensive teams, and Swords Dance deals massive damage to slow teams. You could even include both and use a moveset like Outrage/Earthquake/Swords Dance/Dragon Dance.

    On Forretress, you should use Spikes over Toxic Spikes. Offensive teams like this absolutely love taking advantage of entry hazards, and the more you have the easier a match will be. Toxic Spikes isn't all the useful in today's metagame, since there's Rain teams everywhere with Toxicroak, Tentacruel, Venusaur on Sun teams and Amoonguss. They're more useful on teams that have problems with walls like Chansey and yours is rock solid against those.

    Celebi

    I would switch Celebi's set to an all out offensive one. Here is the set I would use:

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 60 HP / 252 SAtk / 196 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Nasty Plot
    - Giga Drain
    - Earth Power / Hidden Power Fire
    - Psychic

    This set will give you maximum coverage and another sweeper to take advantage of the Dual Screens. Leftovers is typically better than Life Orb in case your opponent tries to stall you out and wear you down. That in combination with Giga Drain will give you some solid recovery. Psychic is a nice stab move and hits some big threats for Super Effective damage, such as Keldeo and Breloom. Earth Power will hit Heatran and Jirachi in the Rain, while Hidden Power Fire will take care of Scizor and Ferrothorn, depending on which pokemon you have more trouble with. As for the EVs, I went with enough speed to outspeed Max+ Speed base 80s such as Mamoswine and Dragonite. You can opt for more bulk if you want.

    Choice Scarfer

    Infernape isn't a great revenge killer because it takes neutral damage from every entry hazard in the game and its frailty causes it to take a lot of damage from priority attacks. I would swap Nape out for one of the best revenge killers in the game: Terrakion.

    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Earthquake / Quick Attack

    Terrakion is great because of his ability to outspeed every physical Dragon Type in the game, even at +1 from Dragon Dance. It also resists Extremespeed from Dragonite, as well as Stealth Rock, meaning it can switch in more times than Infernape. The moveset is standard, you can swap out Earthquake for Quick Attack if you're finding stuff like Agility Thundurus-T a problem (it won't do a lot of damage though).

    I hope this helps you out, best of luck with your team!
  4. Livio

    Livio

    Joined:
    May 15, 2012
    Messages:
    254
    Hi there, really cool team, let s go to rate it.

    Well first of all, i d change some set, like Haxorus, you have a double screener that could give it a wonderfuoul chance to setupp, so i d use this moveset Dragondance/Taunt/Outrage/Earthquake or Sword Dance/Dragondance/Outrage or Dragon Claw/Earthquake with Lum Berry, that s an incredible set to sweep all opponent s team with the abuse of your Double Screener.


    Now I d suggest you to replace Thunder Wave, you already have a move to stop setupp, with U-Turn or Baton pass, the first is to Scout opponent switch after perish song but now Bandtar is everywhere, so now I d use Baton pass to escape from its Pursuit that is anyway a Clean Ohko on it.

    Well now some trouble, as you told could be some Set upper Dragon, but i don t eant to change anything in your team, so I d suggest you to give Red Card>Leftovers on Forretress to not give opportunity of Setupp, if you don t want, use Gyroball/Hidden Power Ice>Toxic spikes to hit better them. Last thing... I Always suggest to use Fireblast>Overheat, all this because drop sometimes could be an opportunity of opponent s setupp, or in lategame could be cause of your loss.

    Hope i helped man, good look in this amazing game
  5. Alexander.

    Alexander.
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,822
    Hello, I got your request, so let's start with the rate!

    At first, I found a weakness to Tornadus-T, it can get over and kill all your team members and you can revenge kill it with Choice Scarf if Tornadus is already weakened. For this reason, I'd use Special Defensive Jirachi in place of Celebi, Jirachi is a similiar pokèmon but it can take easily Tornadus' hit, I will post its set in this post later. Then, I think that Toxic Spikes are pretty useless in the current metagame, Tentacruel is everywhere in the rain team and Venusaur too in the sun team so versus many teams, they can't do anything. For this reason, I suggest you to use Spikes in place of Toxic Spikes on Forretress, this is a offensive team so Spikes helps you to do damage at each team. Now that you are Special Defensive Jirachi, I'd use Forretress with this EV spread EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Def to hit the physical hits better, you don't need two special defensive sponges. Finally, I suggest you to use Naive nature in place of Mild nature on Hydreigon, it can be helpful against Scizor's Bullet Punch and against other physical priority, I think it's better take less damages from priority move that less damages from Ice Beam and other special moves, you have already Jirachi to take these hits well. Hope I helped, good luck. Here's Jirachi's set:


    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - U-turn (it's useful to give momentum to your team but you can use Protect if you prefer it)
    - Body Slam
    - Wish
    - Iron Head
  6. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    Hey there,

    Ill try to not change your pokemon at all while giving you the rate to not ruin your strategy. First, as Uomo solo already said i would give haxorus Dragon dance, because in this way you can abuse more of your screens, which are useless otherwhise. A set of Dragon dance / Outrage / Earthquake / Superpower with a lum berry should work fine, while haxorus is not the best setup mon in the world he still has its niche so i think it can work. Also, since Cb kyurem-b is now usable, Cb haxo its outclassed by it in all the aspects bar the weakness to the priority and the stealth so this is a nice way to distinguish the two.

    Now i think you should change your set on Forretress, toxic spikes really arent doing anything in this team, and i would put Gyro ball instead to do random damage to everything (dragons, terrakion, Mamoswine Gengar and so on)

    Now on Infernape i would try out Hidden power ice on Thunderpunch to affievolite your weakness to dragons in general, like Ddnite Scarf Salamence and Garchomp. Thunder punch isnt doing anything, and while it can 2ko sp def jellicent im sure that the phisical defense is more used, also since the role of infernape is to revenge kill threath you should not care much if Infernape is walled by Jellicent.

    Lastly i agree with ala and his suggestion about Celebi, but i think that hp fire is more necessary than Earth power.

    Well, thats everything i can do without changing your pokemon, i hope i helped and gl!
  7. Funkasaurus

    Funkasaurus E P I C M E M E R
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2011
    Messages:
    665
    Hello there,

    First of all, welcome to Smogon. Second, you have quite the unorthodox team here. Hopefully with this rate, it can become better. First off, to be blunt, Infernape is amongst a certain group of Pokemon who, to be frank, don't have much of a place in the current metagame. This can also be the case for Espeon. With that said, I recommend the use of Heatran > Espeon. Heatran is an excellent Pokemon that has a good place in BW2. The standard special defensive set should be sufficient. And on that, you can run Stealth Rock to take some of the workload of Forretress for entry hazards. Next, on Forre, I recommend Gyro Ball > Stealth Rock and Spikes > Toxic Spikes. With these changes, Forretress won't be as easy set up fodder. And overall, Spikes are superior to Toxic Spikes as not too many of the top used Pokemon are affected by them. Last, but not least, there's the Infernape situation. I recommend the use of Choice Scarf Salamence > Infernape. Salamence is a wonderful revenge killer and it is really good at cleaning up late game.

    Sets (open)

    Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 248 SDef / 12 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Protect
    - Stealth Rock
    - Toxic

    Salamence (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast



    Good luck!
  8. Leftiez

    Leftiez *Stars*

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,016
    Hi TheConMan.
    It is a team interesting, a Heavy Offense, is a style of teams that I like a lot, I like the strategy here, it is a Heavy Offense + Defensive, you can counter and attack at the same time, but your defensive core is weak against the Tornadus/Terrakion/Landorus... These are very played Pokemon, you're often in trouble, I can you suggested to Rotom-W on Hydreigon your team, Hydreigon is not a great thing because Haxxorus + Infernape already do all the work with Rotom-W you can counter Tornadus T and Landorus and it has Will-O-Wisp for physical sweepers then you can come on Gliscor.

    Then I saw that Forretress has Toxic Spike + Steal Rock, I find that it is a bit too much for a single Pokémon, in a match you will not really have the time to put all Hazard Entry and then you lose a good move (Gyroball) to Kill the Dragon/Kion, I suggest you put Gyroball > Toxic Spikes, but I think you want to have the spikes so I suggest you also to put Spike on Steal Rock and to put Steal Rock > Perish Song for Celebi.

    Then I see that Haxorus is Bander, but I do not understand why, as you have a screener,You have a Screeners(Espeon) to your sweepers, but if he's bander you can not really sweep because blocked on a single move, I suggest you to put Haxorus in Dragon Dancer/Stall Breaker, in this form he can be very good because skarmory can do anything you and as you have the screens damage are minor, now you can take advantage of the screens.

    Rotom-W
    Show Hide
    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 188 SDef / 68 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split


    Haxorus
    Show Hide
    Haxorus (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - Taunt
    - Dragon Dance
    - Earthquake


    Tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Forretress--->Gyroball>Toxic Spikes;Spikes>Steal Rocks
    Celebi--->Steal Rock>Perish Song
    Haxorus--->Stall Breaker>Bander


    I Hope I Helped

    Good Luck.
  9. Nova

    Nova Samsung Alpaca
    is a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    1,521
    Hi TheConman

    Welcome to Smogon! Interesting team you have built here, I really like your use of underrated sets such as Mixed Hydreigon and Scarfed Infernape. It's also awesome to see a Choice Banded Haxorus who is quite rare now with all the Banded Garchomps and Kyurem-Bs running around. Now looking at your team, I can see Choice Specs Tornadus-T as being a major threat. Due to you now carrying a weather starter, opposing rain teams will have their weather up for their entire match. This allows Tornadus-T to spam its mighty Hurricanes which hits all of your members for at least neutral damage, 2 for Super Effective damage. Infernape is your only Pokemon who outspeeds Tornadus-T, but due to the ape's fragility, he won't often be able to survive the entire course of a battle especially against rain teams. Once Infernape is out of the way, Tornadus-T can just come in and sweep through your team by clicking Hurricane. For this threat, I suggest replacing Forretress with a Specially Defensive Jirachi with a moveset of Stealth Rock / Body Slam / Iron Head / Wish. With Jirachi's massive Special Defense stat she can not only take Hurricanes but a plethora of other Special attacks. Her Steel-typing offers her numerous resistances including to the aforementioned Flying-type attack and leaves her susceptible to just 2 weaknesses. She packs the Stealth Rock that Forretress currently has which is a critical move in this metagame to cripple top threats such as the Therians, Dragonite, and Volcarona. Body Slam provides great paralysis support alongside Celebi's Thunder Wave which slows down your opponent's team and can lead to a sweep by Hydreigon or Haxorus who normally would be too slow to carry one out. Iron Head provides the nice ParaFlinch combination with Body Slam and Wish support is great to provide longevity to Jirachi and your other members. Forretress is the most replaceable member as the need for Rapid Spin is not essential due to you not using any Stealth Rock weak Pokemon and you already have Espeon to bounce back hazards.

    For Haxorus, I recommend changing him from a Choice Band set to a Double Dancer set with a moveset of Swords Dance / Dragon Dance / Outrage / Earthquake and the hold item of choice being a Lum Berry. Double Dance Haxorus works great with the Dual Screen support Espeon provides as they help him set up the boosts he needs in order to sweep. One major reason to run both Swords Dance and Dragon Dance rather than just DD is because SD allows him to crush slower, stallier teams more easily. Haxorus can Either SD or DD based on the situation; DD versus speedier teams when he needs both speed and power or SD versus slower teams when he doesn't need more speed. Outrage and Earthquake provide ample coverage, leaving you only susceptible to the likes of Skarmory and Air Balloon Heatran, both of which are easily dealt with by Hydreigon. Lum Berry allows Haxorus to avoid getting hit by status while setting up and can also cure Outrage confusion.

    Lastly, I would change Hydreigon's EV spread to 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd with a Rash nature. Superpower is mainly used to hit Tyranitar and Heatran, both of which typically do not run much Defense investment so the Attack investment on Hydreigon is not necessary. This spread allows him to hit much harder with Draco Meteor and Fire Blast and these are the attacks you'll be using most of the time. Rash nature boosts Special Attack and lowers Special Defense and is used instead of Mild because Hydreigon needs the physical bulk to take Scizor's Bullet Punch and Lucario's Extremespeed.

    Hope I helped and good luck with your team!


    Sets:
    Show Hide
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    -Stealth Rock
    -Body Slam
    -Iron Head
    -Wish

    Haxorus (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    -Swords Dance
    -Dragon Dance
    -Outrage
    -Earthquake



    tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Forretress ----> Specially Defensive Jirachi
    Choice Band Haxorus ----> Double Dancer Haxorus
    Hydreigon's EV Spread ----> 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd with Rash Nature
  10. TheConman

    TheConman

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    Messages:
    7
    Wow everybody! Thanks for the help! I get on this morning and there are 8 replies! As for the changes, I'm going to try to make a compromise between most of them. First of all, the Hydreigon EV spread was actually a typo. It actually has 4HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe. I will be fixing that after this post. I will be replacing Celebi with specially defensive Jirachi, and give Haxorus a Dragon Dance set, as both were highly suggested, and they make sense. I will also give Forretress a physically defensive spread over a specially defensive spread, beacause, as Alexander suggested, and replace Toxic Spikes with Spikes and Stealth Rock with Gyro Ball. Also, I noticed that a few people were suggesting for me to switch Infernape for Terrakion. For now, I'm going to keep Infernape, as he is actually doing very well on the team, but I will change him from scarf and replace U-turn with Mach Punch. Thank you all for the suggestions, and I will try all of these changes out.
  11. Leftiez

    Leftiez *Stars*

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,016
    Good idea but if you keep Infernape I suggest you to put Stone edge/Hidden power Ice on thunder Punch, because you can already kill the bulky water with celebi, and that you can't kill Dragonite/Salamence a + 1 that you can not do if you do not have Stone edge/Hidden Power Ice.and if you put Celebi on Jirachi you'll be disadvantaged against VoltUrn, but if you put Rotom-W on Hydreigon, you can counter the 2 problems ^ ^
  12. TheConman

    TheConman

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    Messages:
    7
    Thanks for the suggestions Leftiez, but since I have replaced Celebi with Jirachi, ThunderPunch is more important than ever on Infernape. I also really like my double dragon offensive core. Thanks for the advice! :D
  13. Leftiez

    Leftiez *Stars*

    Joined:
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    Ok but if you leave hydreigon,will need to be careful , Good Luck for the rest ^ ^ I liked to help you

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