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Can't Beat the Classics

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by trickroom, Sep 11, 2012.

  1. trickroom

    trickroom
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Can't Beat the Classics

    Introduction
    The release of BW2 didn't really change the metagame much besides adding one superb Special Attacker, one hulking but limited physical powerhouse, and the amazing Genesect. Latias and Latios already gotten their Soul Dew back so chances are you will bump into them more frequent than ever. However, they still aren't as popular as they used to be in DPP. Scizor is still rather rare due to our new favorite robotic insect: Genesect giving stiff competition as a choice user.

    I don't really care about the addition of Kyurem-W because it is rather over- hyped in my opinion. Sure you have that sexy base 170 SpA but hey look at Kyogre, it gets the rain and 150 base power Water Spout or Hydro Pump combined with rain to squash teams. This team attempts to showcase the utility of a few undervalued Pokemon <-- this sentence is quoted from Jibaku's Vulcan Fury RMT: specifically Skarmory and Jirachi.

    When we think of Spikes in Ubers, we always thought about the annoying Ferrothorn or that equally supportive Forretress. Skarmory on the other hand is always left out as a threat to consider. Most defensive teams actually lack ways to quickly destroy Skarmory lol, an example will be a team of Groudon, Grass Arceus, Giratina, Blissey, Palkia and Forretress. Only Palkia can really threaten Skarmory and choice users generally do not fare well with Skarmory's partners.

    Jirachi is sort of underrated. Before completing this team, I had Blissey instead of Jirachi. After some long thought, I asked myself why am I not using Jirachi instead? Blissey was sitting there and making me lose momentum, and although the team really enjoy gigantic wishes, Jirachi's ability to beat Psyshock Latias reliably and check both the new Kyurem forms, earned it a solid spot on this team. U-turn is a fantastic addition to this team as it allows me to gain momentum and turn the tide to my side. Jirachi always attracts Spikes user and U-turn lets me go straight to a counter, a strategy I will highlight later in this RMT.

    This team's performance is pretty satisfactory for me, and even the powerful Poppy likes it. Can't Beat the Classics is the probably the best name I can give for this RMT lol, partially inspired by the scene in Expendables 2. I am not using any BW pokemon in this team, so yeah I still like the Classics most. Despite that fact, this team is made to face the treacherous BW2 metagame and succeed in it.

    I decided to just post this RMT to share with the community before I face my examinations in real life. Since Jibaku went out with a bang, I am going to explode with a blast, and made some solid effort in creating this team, putting everything I know to share my experience of this new BW2 metagame.

    Note: I finally made one RMT without Lugia or Gyarados in it :(

    Just like any other RMTs, no ladder achievements because that is honestly not a very wise decision to judge one's experience in Ubers. I will just say it did well on ladder.

    This RMT still follows the old but awesome Vulcan Fury RMT format made by Jibaku. Also, firecape planned to make an unrivaled RMT with me but he disappeared :( I decided to post my own team first before making one joint RMT with him ;) Frankly, I do miss firecape a lot, he is my best buddy in many areas. I will mention it here once more, if I never met firecape, I probably would not or could not have joined the Ubers QC team or participated in C&C ( Fireburn was there too though along with Jibaku and bojangles! ) which is a very important part of my life in Smogon University! Great Sage hates Gyarados so that sucks :( Oh yeah firecape introduced me to IRC, and he even helped me with the Gyarados scripts LOL.

    Another thing I remembered was firecape really liked Jirachi, so this time I trying it out on a serious team and it worked very well. Can't fit in Mamoswine in this team so that will be in the future. Furry is now the 'new' firecape :)

    Too long, don't read, lets proceed with the team!

    Team at a Glance

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Next, let's proceed into the actual team!

    ---

    My Favorite Dinosaur
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Groudon @ Earth Plate
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 220 Atk / 24 Def / 12 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge
    - Fire Punch

    General Information
    Unlike many Groudons roaming around the metagame, mine is surprisingly different but plays similarly. This Groudon set stomps any Dialga in one hit, and Tyranitar is completely flattened by Earthquake as well. I was using Support Groudon earlier but I kept got annoyed by the fact Dialga survived Earthquake and getting rocks up or 2HKO Groudon first. This team tries to limit the opposing entry hazards, and this Groudon is a fantastic way to demolish Spikes user as every single one of them, including Skarmory is manhandled by Groudon.

    Show Hide
    Moveset Explanation
    Stealth Rock is pretty obvious, every Ubers team needs it. Earthquake is just standard on Groudon, also please don't drop Earthquake on Groudon for a coverage move lol. Stone Edge is just that important these days, Ho-Oh getting a free switch in? Not anymore! Eat a Stone Edge you turkey :)
    Fire Punch is anti Spikes, it OHKOes both Ferrothorn and Forretress after Sturdy breaks. Tentacruel is already dwindling in usage but Earthquake completely stomps it anyway, Scald burns are annoying though ;_;

    Groudon provides me with crucial weather control as well. It beats SD Arceus one-on-one and smashes those annoying Steel Arceus. Excadrill does not enjoy facing Groudon either.

    EV explanation
    With Earth Plate, Dialga is safely OHKOed with a single Earthquake. Since I no longer have leftovers now, more Attack investment is the better option and 220 EVs give me a bonus point, just enough to strike max HP Dialga for 100% - 117.8%. I tried max Speed but that just does not fit my preferred style of play which is a team of bulky pokemon. With max HP and some random Defense EVs, Groudon now gets the chance to survive a +1 Rayquaza Outrage and reply back with Stone Edge, OHKOing 80% of the time after just 2 rounds of Life Orb damage or with Stealth Rock alone. I will just leave the Speed EVs at 12 for now, as Groudon really likes the bulk. Oh and with this set, Gliscor cannot hope to setup a free Substitute ahead of me because Fire Punch will break the poor scorpion's Sub.

    Possible changes: I guess I can use back leftovers Groudon to survive longer and be more of a physical wall. This team does not enjoy weak fart Groudons though so Earth Plate is the better option for now.



    The new Star
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
    Careful Nature
    - Wish
    - U-turn
    - Toxic
    - Protect

    General Information
    Jirachi is a rather new addition to this team as Blissey was in this spot earlier. As mentioned earlier, Blissey simply could not stop being set up bait and Spikes fodder, even with Fire Blast ;_; Fire Blast Blissey still fails to give me momentum. Jirachi has that sexy typing and it is really underrated in today's metagame. Besides being a solid Fire Blast-less Mewtwo check, Jirachi can also pass decently size Wishes and U-turn can always give me the advantage when passing the recovery. Next, Jirachi shares excellent typing with the rest of the members, Giratina-O and Latias resist all of its weaknesses while Jirachi resists Ice and Dragon. Skarmory is immune to Ground and provides Spikes support. I don't want to use Scarf Jirachi, it is piss weak and not bulky enough.

    Show Hide
    Moveset Explanation
    Wish is standard on Jirachi because I really need it. The team's core lack recovery so passing Wish from Jirachi is the only way. Toxic is Jirachi's most reliable way of checking Calm Mind Arceus and dealing damage to walls in general such as Groudon and Lugia. I am not using Iron Head >_< because flinching is not the best way to take out Arceus lol. U-turn as mentioned earlier gives me momentum and yeah it still breaks Subs from the likes of Latias and Mewtwo. Protect because I need it for Jirachi to heal guaranteed, makes a great scout as well. You never know when you will bump into surprise sets these days such as Mixed Dialga and Protect is a good way to find out its set.

    EV Explanation
    I just use max SpD for maximum bulk, since Jirachi is not suited to be a physical wall. That said, Jirachi is still as bulky as Bold Blissey physically and that typing is a huge advantage, especially when dealing with Giratina-O. 40 Defense EVs is a cheap spread anyway.


    Classic Dragon
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 112 HP / 200 SpA / 196 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Roost
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Grass Knot / Thunder

    Latias just got her Soul Dew back and I figured out I should use a team with it. Don't listen to Jibaku, Heatran blows, Jirachi and Skarmory are way better as a Latias partners :D This set is inspired by Colonel_M's very fascinating Gyarados RMT's Latias, although I obviously have to make changes to suit the Ubers metagame.

    This Latias set is something new but it works wonderfully. Kyogre is really a defining force of the metagame, so making a team without a solid counter to it, is just asking to be destroyed. Latias has always and will probably be one the best Kyogre checks in existence and Ice Beam is not something you will enjoy spamming against my team due to the existence of Jirachi and my own Kyogre. Multiscale Lugia totally walls this Latias but hey, I have my own reliable ways in dealing with Lugia which I will touch on later. Pairing Jirachi with Latias and Giratina-O allows me to resist almost every attack in the game, although things like Dark Pulse are not resisted. Skarmory sets up on Groudon who loves to switch in on my Jirachi, only to get Toxic-ed :D

    Show Hide
    Moveset Explanation
    Unlike most Latias sets, I am using an all out attacker, inspired by the Latias in Colonel_M's fantastic RMT. However, this Latias aims to function in the sun or both when I use Thunder. Draco Meteor is an extremely powerful move and it easily OHKOes even max HP Giratina-O and Latios. Giratina-O surviving Dragon Pulse at full health and KOing Latias in return with Dragon Tail can be pretty embarrassing. Hidden Power is a nasty surprise for Ferrothorn and Forretress who just love to switch in these days expecting the usual Psyshock/Thunder set. I still have not decided to use Grass Knot or Thunder because I have dual weather support. In general Grass Knot is usually more reliable in smashing Groudon in one hit and dealing decent damage to even the bulkiest Tyranitar.

    Choice Explanation
    My team lacks a Rapid Spinner, so Latias is used over Palkia mainly for that Spikes immune and recovery. Palkia roasts Ferrothorn easily but it dies quickly. As for the EVs, yeah, I think most of you saw I posted how important it is for Latias to run max Speed. However, I am using Hidden Power Fire at the moment, so there's no point going max Speed to tie with opposing Latias besides for the occasional non-Scarf Terrakion. I feel the extra bulk is more important for this team so yeah I am living with this spread at the moment. The current EV spread gives a balance in power and bulk, which I enjoy using. Don't even think of 252 SpA or 252 HP, at that point you might as well just use Latios or Defensive Calm Mind Latias.


    The Lesser Giratina form
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    Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 216 Atk / 252 Def / 40 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Outrage
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Dragon Tail
    - Will-O-Wisp

    General Info
    You might think that I am mad for using such a weird Giratina-O set but it works! Well, judging from the usage stats, Giratina-O became less used than its Another forme lol. Anyway, they are a few reasons why Giratina-O > Giratina in this team. #1 I just made a Giratina-A team not long ago :(
    2# Levitate! 3# Gives me offense and momentum

    Giratina-O works great vs stall, especially when paired with Skarmory and Jirachi for recovery. Oh that Levitate is crucial for this team, as I lack Rapid Spin support and its just nice to have an additional Ground immune and Mewtwo check.

    Show Hide
    Moveset Explanation
    Outrage no longer used on Giratina-O? :( I actually think Outrage is very viable on Giratina-O simply because it tears things apart. Yeah I know its no Kyurem-B but base 120 Attack combined with Griseous Orb is just enough to 2HKO max HP Arceus. Ho-Oh is becoming a damn bitch to deal with, so Outrage fits right in. Also with Latias not running Calm Mind, I need something to hit Kyogre hard on the physical side. Outrage also nets me easy 2HKOes vs Manaphy when they are asleep. Besides, 2HKOing Chansey can always come in handy. Dragon Tail is what makes Giratina-O so deadly, if you don't know how, then ask Jibaku! Unlike Giratina-A, Giratina-O's Dragon Tail is decently strong and it can even OHKO Latios after Stealth Rock or a little prior damage., combine that with hazards and you have a fantastic annoyer + phazer. Shadow Sneak is just for revenge killing Deoxys-A, Latias, Latios and Mewtwo and that happened a lot. Sometimes picking off a near death Rayquaza can be nice too. I am using Will-O-Wisp at the moment beacuse Skarmory carries Taunt and I can possibly just live with my opponent getting an extra layer of Spikes, by getting in Giratina-O to spam multiple Dragon Tails. That said, I sometimes missed Hidden Power Fire but Latias, Groudon and Kyogre can easily scare away Forretress while Ferrothorn is completely rolled over by Skarmory. The reason for Wil-O-Wisp, is yeah I like to burn things and gives me an additional SD Arceus check. I can even stay in on Dragon Arceus, survive the Outrage and OHKO it back with my own Outrage. Forretress does not enjoy burns + hazards damage much anyway. Ferrothorn always comes with the rain so :( burning it can sometimes be better for Kyogre to eventually pick it off. Sadly, Will-O-Wisp tend to miss at the worst times, sometimes causing me the game.

    EV Explanation
    EV spread looks so bizarre but it serves a few functions. 216 EVs in Attack gives me a bonus point and grabs the 2HKO vs Kyogre and max HP Arceus after SR. Ho-Oh hates Outrage to the extreme as after Stealth Rock only physically defensive Ho-Oh can hope to survive it. At that point, I will just Dragon Tail the fat turkey out. 252 Defense EVs is because I enjoy the buff up physical Defense. Relying on Skarmory and a non recovery Groudon for walling can be a bit too pressuring. Also the Defense EVs lets me achieve some amazing feats such as always surviving Garchomp's Outrage after Stealth Rock and easily avoiding the 2HKO from Zekrom's CB Bolt Strike after SR. Not shifting to max HP / max Defense because power is what sets Giratina-O apart from its cousin. 40 Speed EVs are just Speed creeps and I can afford to creep more for Ho-Oh. In case Groudon underspeeds Ho-Oh, I still have Giratina-O to take it out. Kyogre does not enjoy eating Brave Birds and I cannot let my Scarf user take too much damage. Giratina-O has a huge HP stat and I like to focus on physically walling so 252 Def > 252 HP. It also lets me check things like Blaziken, Kabutops and Excadrill a lot better.

    Shadow Sneak also lets me limit Deoxys-S to one layer which is crucial since I lack a Rapid Spinner. Sometimes I use Jirachi's U-turn + Shadow Sneak to KO Deoxys-S.

    <awesome sprite by klnothincomin>


    The Best Physical Wall in OU
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 156 SpD / 4 Spe
    Bold Nature
    - Spikes
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind
    - Taunt

    General Info
    You don't see Skarmory much in Ubers these days but it surprisingly has quite a useful niche in Ubers. Base 140 Defense / 70 Special Defense and 65 HP looks measly compared to Lugia's titanic 106 / 130 / 154 or Giratina's champion 150 / 120 / 120 defenses. However, pure stats alone can be deceiving, Skarmory's trump card is its fantastic typing for physical walling and access to Spikes which is frankly more useful than Lugia's sheer bulk. There's one more underrated move Skarmory has no other Ubers wall possess: Taunt. With Taunt I get to shut down Lugia, Giratina ( it gets to burn me though ;_; ) and Cresselia lol. Deoxys-D dropped out of Ubers so I will not mention it here, anyway Skarmory has a much better typing than Deoxys-D. Everyone knows Skarmory is the best physical wall in OU, and even in Ubers, Skarmory's walling potential is superb. Walling every single version of Swords Dance Arceus is also this Armored Bird's main claim to fame.

    Show Hide
    Moveset Explanation
    This set is just standard on Ubers Skarmory but it rarely sees use due to Ferrothorn's superior typing for most teams. Spikes is THE reason to use Skarmory over another wall, so Lugia. I can't live without Spikes in Ubers, and I posted teams with Forry and Ferro. This time its time for Skarmory! Roost keeps me alive and makes it superior to Ferrothorn and Forretress in terms of physical walling. Whirlwind is another superb advantage over other Spikers, it prevents me from being setup bait which is huge and Skarmory can abuse the Spikes it setup on its own. Taunt is really awesome. It shuts down many stall members such as Blissey, Ferrothorn and Forretress, preventing them from doing anything. Taunt also keeps Lugia in check as Dragon Tail alone cannot harm my team much because I carry Toxic on Jirachi, Kyogre can Thunder, Latias can Draco Meteor and easily survive Dragon Tail while Groudon has a powerful Stone Edge to smack Lugia for the 2HKO after SR ( assuming it cannot Recover due to Taunt).

    EV Explanation
    Max HP is the way to go on something with high Defense but low HP, the exact reverse from Giratina-O [ Although base 100 Defenses aren't bad, base 150 HP is way higher! ]. There's something people always forgot. Skarmory can actually annoy quite a number of Special Attackers due to its auspicious typing. Things like Ghost Arceus can't really KO Skarmory at all due to Taunt, Roost and Whirlwind. Flamethrower Ghost Arceus is extinct and I also have the rain to foil that strategy. Even Mewtwo struggles with Skarmory if it drops Thunder or Fire Blast. I like those 96 Defense EVs because it secures me the survival vs 2 +1 Outrage from Adamant Rayquaza, and take on Kyurem-B, Garchomp and Groudon better in general. Additionally, Support Groudon's Fire Punch is never a 2HKO bar critical hits or burns ;_; 4 Speed EVs is just creeping above opposing Skarmory if I ever meet one, which I did when I met Poppy.


    The Fat Whale we all Love
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 168 HP / 136 SpA / 204 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Water Spout
    - Ice Beam
    - Surf
    - Thunder

    General Info
    The glue to this team. Every Ubers team will enjoy a user of Choice Scarf due to the threat of Mewtwo, Darkrai and Shaymin-S. Kyogre has always been a useful Scarf user, and this set is just like the feeling of Deja Vu, it has all the same moves of Drown All's Kyogre. Nevertheless, something changed, and that is bulk. Thanks to Jibaku for giving me the idea of using Fat Scarf Kyogre, and I am now liking it! In general it can survive +2 ExtremeSpeed from Rayquaza more easily and Arceus needs Life Orb and Adamant nature to KO me at +2. This Scarf Kyogre can switch in on Surfs and Kyurem-W spamming Specs Ice Beam more easily and Jirachi is always there to provide recovery. I like pairing this up with Jirachi as it beats Latias for Kyogre.

    Show Hide
    Moveset Explanation
    I don't really know what to say here. It's really standard for Scarf Kyogre. Water Spout for power and kills Arceus forms, Surf for reliably, Thunder rapes opposing Kyogre and pummels Palkia for decent damage while Ice Beam destroys certain Dragon-types such as Rayquaza and Garchomp. Paralyzing Latias on the switch with Thunder is always useful. I tried Hydro Pump but it misses more often than it hits X___X

    Choice Explanation
    I picked Choice Scarf Kyogre for its power and an additional Ice-type resist. Now with Kyurem-W flying everywhere, Kyogre + Jirachi can wall it to an extend. Kyogre can also go bulky even when holding Choice Scarf due to its naturally high power and access to hard hitting moves. The EV spread outruns everything up to neutral nature Deoxys-A while stting at 407 Special Attack which is still higher than Timid Kyogre. The HP stat stands at 383 which is good enough for me.


    Conclusion
    As always Gyarados > RMT and no Arceus !_! By the way Gyarados was a staple premier member of this team until I found something called Giratina-O. Better Defenses, Speed, more powerful moves and typing for a little less Attack lol. That said, even Hugendugen, the newest best Ubers player admitted Gyarados is a force to be reckoned with in Ubers! We always share our victories using the mighty Gyarados and he's my closest friend since a long time ago :)

    In future I would like to make an RMT with Poppy :D Although that will have to wait, because I agreed with firecape earlier to make the best Ubers team ever!

    Oh you don't need Arceus or Kyurem-W to succeed in Ubers :) My personal opinion still stands and I rarely use Arceus anyway because it is cheap LOL. Not using Arceus does not leave you at a disadvantage at all, I only used Arceus to patch up holes in teams, something Arceus's special about! For example, I used SR Ghost Arceus lol, but anyway I am not dropping Giratina-O for Ghost Arceus in this team !_! Levitate + Dragon Tail is huge, and I love Outrage to maim Ho-Oh. Ghost Arceus is a sitting duck against that fire turkey.

    Burn All lives! Drown all rules! Combine them both Sun + Rain = Can't Beat the Classics! Burn All is surely an amazing team that shot firecape's popularity to superstar status, especially in the #ubers channel where multiple parodies were made by his nemesis, known as the notorious Jibaku. Although Burn All didn't really made an impact in the metagame purely due to its usability only in Dream World ( Shadow Tag Chandelure isn't released ), I respect the RMT as an inspiration for me to create some quality RMTs.

    Threat List (open)
    Threat List (open)

    Offensive Tier List

    Tier 1
    Kyogre
    -Choice Specs: I have Latias in this team, and Grass Knot or Thunder will maim it. Giratina-O can always deal major damage with Outrage, and most variants are slow. If it decides to spam Ice Beam, my own Kyogre beats it. Groudon wrecks those stuck on Thunder.
    -Choice Scarf: See Specs except now Giratina-O has an easier time with it because it lacks monstrous power
    -Thunder Wave: Giratina-O deals major damage to it, outspeeds and survives Ice Beam. Latias can pick off weakened ones and avoid the paralysis. Groudon 2HKOes it in general and I survive Ice Beam. Jirachi can happily Toxic it although Surf hurts :(
    -Calm Mind RestTalk: Latias is the best way to go here. Grass Knot hurts it while Giratina-O 2HKOes with Outage. Not much else besides Groudon changing the weather and possibly 2HKOing with Spikes.
    -Calm Mind + 3 attacks: Latias hates this version and I guess I just have to weaken it repeatedly. Giratina-O as always can pick it off with Outrage. If Groudon can switch in safely, Jirachi can Toxic it and U-turn out.
    -Sleep Talk + Roar: Latias and Giratina-O own this.
    -Chesto Rest Calm Mind: Groudon changes weather and Latias can usually beat this. Still a huge annoyance though.

    Arceus-Normal
    -Swords Dance: Skarmory is the best counter ever existed. If it has Recover, its gonna miss something. Without EQ, Jirachi can Toxic it, dropping Shadow Claw means Giratina-O has a fun time.
    -Choice Band: Skarmory + Giratina-O and Groudon handle this set fine. Giratina-O can always take the Trick and burn it / KO with Outrage.

    Arceus-Ghost
    -Calm Mind: Jirachi is the best way here. Toxic it and wait for it to die slowy. If it somehow has Sub instead of Recover, Skarmory can always force it out with Whirlwind or Taunt it. Kyogre can pick it off and Judgment does not hurt much.
    -Swords Dance: Skarmory against walls this to hell and forth. Taunt + Spikes destroys it. Groudon beats it in 2 hits while Shadow Claw cannot do the same to me. Kyogre can easily revenge it due to my extra bulk.

    Mewtwo
    -Calm Mind +3 Attacks: Kyogre revenges it, Giratina-O Sneaks which 2HKOes. Jirachi can beat it in rain or without Fire Blast. Skarmory can phaze those without Fire Blast or Thunder.
    -Recover + 3 Attacks: See the above
    -Substitute Calm Mind: Skarmory beats those without Fire Blast and Jirachi can just U-turn out to Kyogre to finish it off. Shadow Sneak can help picking it off.
    -All Out Attacker: Jirachi again walls it in rain and Kyogre makes it sad. Giratina-O picks it off.
    -Choice Scarf: Never see these but Giratina-O, Jirachi and Kyogre does the trick. Groudon caneasily survive Psytrike and spam Earthquake.

    Palkia
    -Specially Offensive Lustrous Orb: Latias is the only counter I have or maybe Jirachi but its 2HKOed by Surf in rain or Fire Blast.
    -Choice Scarf: Jirachi, Giratina-O, Groudon, Kyogre, Latias, Skarmory can all come in on the right moves and react accordingly.
    -Choice Specs: Hits so freaking hard, Latias is my only solid answer to it, Jirachi can come in on Dragon-type attacks.
    -Haban Berry: Jirachi beats these in rain, but Surf can hurt. Latias can just spam Draco Meteor at it for the OHKO.
    -Mixed: Latias

    Dialga
    -Choice Specs: I have to react accordingly. Usually Jirachi + Latias works. Groudon OHKOes it.
    -Mixed: Groudon can outrun and OHKO it. Latias and Jirachi are always helpful in taking some attacks. Kyogre can pick it off.
    -Choice Scarf: Jirachi usually soaks up all attacks and pass a Wish to a teammate. Latias can work here too but can't switch in on Draco Meteor. Skarmory can come in on Dragon attacks.
    -Bulk Up: Hello Skarmory/Groudon

    Groudon
    -Rock Polish: Skarmory + Giratina-O walls it. My own Groudon can 2HKO it. Kyogre can survive EQ and KO back.
    -Double Booster: Skarmory and Giratina-O still beat this. Kyogre can revenge kill.
    -Earth Plate/Life Orb + SR: Kyogre can switch in an drown it. Latias can KO with Grass Knot/Draco Meteor. Giratina-O works wonderfully by burning it or Dragon Tail.
    -Swords Dance + Thunder Wave: See Above
    -Choice Band

    Kyurem-W
    -Choice Specs: Jirachi + Kyogre is the best choice. Latias can revenge kill it.
    -Choice Scarf: See above
    -Life Orb 3 Attacks + Roost: Latias can revenge kill it but I can find it hard to switch in on it. Kyogre can pick it off.

    Arceus-Ground
    -Swords Dance: Skarmory, Giratina-O and Kyogre all defeats this easily.
    -Calm Mind: Skarmory can Spikes up and blow it away, as can Giratina-O. Kyogre drowns it too and Groudon will 2HKO with Earthquake after Spikes.

    Latios
    -Calm Mind: Jirachi is my best bet. Giratina-O and Kyogre can revenge
    -All Out Attacker: See Above
    -Dual Screens: Never seen these but Giratina-O, Skarmory and Kyogre still works.

    Latias
    -Offensive Calm Mind: Jirachi is of the best counters as can Skarmory vs those Thunder less.
    -Bulky Calm Mind: Jirachi + Skarmory and Giratina-O to revenge kill.

    Ho-Oh
    -Tank: Kyogre, Skarmory in rain lol, and Giratina-O works wonders. Groudon can OHKO with Stone Edge but hates burn a lot.
    -Offensive Flame Charge: Kyogre can survive an attack and KO back as can Giratina-O or Groudon.
    -Choice Scarf: See Above
    -Choice Band Same as above

    Rayquaza
    -Dragon Dance: Uh oh, I need it to get stuck on Outrage for Skarmory to come in if it managed to set up. Groudon beats it otherwise but if it is weakened I am gonna lose something.
    -Mixed: Latias, Kyogre can OHKO it.
    -Mixed Dancer: Not sure on this, as it steam rolls my team. Kyogre is probably the best but +1 Outrage kills so I have to lure it in with Skarmory.
    -Swords Dance: Latias / Kyogre and Groudon.
    -Choice Scarf: Skarmory, Groudon and Kyogre can all beat this.
    -Choice Band: Skarmory, Latias and Kyogre.

    Darkrai
    -Nasty Plot: Kyogre rips this. Jirachi helps by U-turning or Toxic it. Groudon OHKOes it after SR easily.
    -Mono Attacker + Sub: Skarmory can phaze it out and Kyogre revenges easily. Jirachi can U-turn it for some damage and go to Kyogre.
    -Choice Scarf: Kyogre beats it, while Jirachi can wall it. Skarmory can handle most attacks too but hates the occasional Thunder.
    -Focus Sash : See above. Giratina can Sneak those at 1 HP.

    Arceus-Fighting
    -Calm Mind: Jirachi Toxics it, and Skarmory/Giratina-O can blow it out after suffering a huge attack. Kyogre revenges. It can't really setup on anyone as Groudon can 2HKO it with Earthquake.

    Tier 2
    Giratina-O
    -Mixed Dragon Tail: Jirachi can Toxic it. Skarm can harass it while Latias KOes with Draco Meteor 90% of the time. My own Giratina-O can take it out with Outrage.
    -Calm Mind + Sub: Latias beats it with Draco Meteor. Skarm can phaze it out. Kyogre can take those without Thunder.

    Zekrom
    -Choice Band: Prediction is the key. Groudon, Jirachi and Skarmory can handle certain moves while Giratina-O beats those not stuck on Outrage. Latias revenges.
    -Mixed: Groudon + Latias, and Jirachi can come in on Draco Meteor. I don't enjoy facing these.
    -Choice Scarf: Groudon, Skarmory and Giratina-O can all come in on the right moves. Outrage doesn't KO Giratina-O anyway while Skarmory can survive 1 Bolt Strike.
    -Hone Claws: Groudon, Latias revenges with Draco Meteor.

    Reshiram
    -Choice Specs: Latias + Kyogre. Prediction is cool.
    -Choice Scarf: Latias, Kyogre and Jirachi in rain.

    Deoxys-A
    -Focus Sash: Giratina-O has Sneak, Jirachi checks it nicely as can Kyogre.
    -Life Orb Attacker: Jirachi + Giratina-O's Sneak. It hits hard but Jirachi isn't weak to any attack save Fire Punch which is weak in the rain.

    Shaymin-S
    -Sub Seed: Skarmory screws it up with Kyogre's Ice Beam to pick it off. Whirlwind and Flying-type resistance makes it hard to beat Skarmory through Flinching. Jirachi can easily take any attack as well and U-turn out.
    -Choice Scarf: Skarmory, Jirachi walls it easily :) This one is pretty weak so Giratina-O can take it on as well.
    -Life Orb: Kyogre can revenge kill it with Ice Beam. Skarmory can take any attack and blow it out while Jirachi only fears Hidden Power Fire in the sun or Earth Power.

    Terrakion
    -Choice Scarf: Skarmory, Groudon, Giratina-O do not take much damage from all of its attacks
    -Choice Band: Giratina-O is not 2HKO by any attack and OHKO with Outrage. Groudon OHKOes it as well. Kyogre can take one attack and drown it. Skarmory can wall those not stuck on Close Combat.

    Excadrill
    -Sand Rush abuse: Giratina-O can burn it, Groudon and Kyogre change weather and defeat it.

    Arceus-Steel
    -Calm Mind: Groudon, Skarmory, Kyogre. Groudon OHKOes it with Earthquake while Skarmory can Taunt and blow it out.

    Arceus-Dark
    -Calm Mind mono Attacker: Skarmory, Kyogre. Not seen a lot, and Skarmory can Taunt and Whirlwind it out. Kyogre can pick those weakened or unboosted ones.

    Arceus-Electric
    -Calm Mind: Groudon and Latias. Groudon can OHKO it, Kyogre can pick it off, Giratina-O can always phaze it out or hit hard with Outrage. Jirachi can survive at least one attack and Toxic it.

    Gyarados
    Nothing to comment because Gyarados has no true counters.

    Kabutops
    -Swords Dance: Groudon screws it with Earthquake while Giratina-O OHKOes with Outrage and survive everything. Latias can take on attack and OHKO with Grass Knot, Thunder or Draco Meteor.

    Garchomp
    -Swords Dance + Sub sand abuse: Skarmory owns this easily and can even set up free Spikes. Kyogre can revenge kill if needed.
    -Choice Band: Skarmory and Groudon, Kyogre revenges. It can't really get past Skarmory and Giratina-O punishes those stuck on Fire Fang or Earthquake.
    -Choice Scarf: Skarmory walls this till tomorrow. Giratina-O, Groudon, and Kyogre can all survive any attack and KO back.

    Blaziken
    -Swords Dance: Giratina-O, Kyogre and Latias beats it easily. Giratina-O can even survive +2 Shadow Claw if needed and KO with Outrage.

    Tyranitar
    -Choice Band: Groudon, Skarmory walls it. Stone Edge can be stalled out by Roost. Kyogre can also take it out easily.
    -Tank: Groudon, Kyogre and Skarmory. Groudon and Kyogre can OHKO it while Skarmory only fears repeated Fire Blasts.

    Arceus-Dragon
    -Swords Dance: Skarmory walls it completely. Groudon can hurt it a lot while Kyogre can Ice Beam it to death.
    -Calm Mind: Jirachi's Toxic and Skarmory. Skarmory can Taunt, set up Spikes and phaze it out.

    Salamence
    -Scarf Moxie: Skarmory, Groudon, Kyogre and Jirachi. It can't really kill anyone easily except for Latias.
    -Dragon Dance: Groudon, Skarmory. Kyogre can take any attack and OHKO back. Latias outspeed unboosted ones and OHKO them.

    Kingdra
    -Rain Mixed: Groudon + Skarmory, Jirachi and possibly Kyogre Thundering it.

    Mamoswine
    -Life Orb Attacker: Skarmory and Kyogre does the trick. Giratina-O can survive Icicle Crash and OHKO with Outrage.

    Kyurem-B
    -Mixed: Latias will revenge kill it. Skarmory can take on those without Fusion Bolt or stuck on Outrage. Jirachi walls it too and can reply with Toxic.
    -Choice Band: Skarmory and Groudon + Jirachi. Latias revenges those Outraging ones.
    -Choice Scarf: Skarmory, Jirachi and Groudon. I just predict around it :) This set is a lot weaker so it is easier to play around.
    -Hone Claws: Latias, Groudon. Never seen these but it can cause a lot of problems.

    Genesect
    -Choice Scarf: Giratina-O, Kyogre, Groudon can come in on the right moves and KO it.

    Tier 3
    Thundurus
    -Nasty Plot: Kyogre can revenge. Latias OHKOes it and Giratina-O can do the same with Outrage. A rare sight in Ubers anyway. Groudon beats it with Stone Edge and can survive Hidden Power Ice.

    Arceus-Grass
    -Calm Mind: Jirachi, Skarmory and Giratina-O make it sad. Jirachi can Toxic, Skarmory Taunts it and Spikes up. Giratina-O just phazes it out. Latias can hurt those unboosted ones.

    Arceus-Rock
    -Swords Dance: Kyogre, Groudon, Skarmory. Groudon and Kyogre OHKOes, survive any attack too :)
    -Calm Mind: Jirachi Toxics it and its dead. Kyogre changes weather and OHKO.


    Arceus-Water
    -Calm Mind: Jirachi Toxics it. Latias hurts it with Grass Knot or Thunder.
    -Swords Dance: Latias, Skarmory, Groudon, Kyogre
    -Mono + Refresh: Latias, Skarmory, Kyogre can hurt it. Giratina-O can Dtail it out.

    Arceus-Fire
    -Calm Mind: Kyogre drowns it. Latias can deal some damage while Giratina-O can always phaze / Outrage it for the kill.

    Cloyster
    -Shell Smash: I have Kyogre, Jirachi and Skarmory for this. If it has White Herd instead, Kyogre and Skarmory can easily survive a +2 Attack and KO back. Latias crushes unboosted ones, while Giratina-O can survive a +0 Icicle Spear and burn it. If it is almost death, which is possible with hazards around, Sneak can pick it off.

    Defensive Tier List:

    Tier 1
    Ferrothorn
    -Standard Leech Seed + Spikes: Groudon OHKOes it. Skarmory has an easy time setting up free Spikes. Latias can surprise KO it. Giratina-O can burn and phaze it out if needed. Jirachi has to beware of it, and I usually just U-turn out.

    Groudon
    -Physical Wall: Kyogre, Latias, Skarmory, Giratina-O destroys it. It gets nothing more than Stealth Rock, because Latias OHKOes with Grass Knot. Skarmory gets free layers unless it uses Fire Blast ouch.
    -Specially Defensive: see Above, except now it survives Grass Knot in exchange of losing to my Groudon one-on-one lol. Giratina-O burns it and Dragon Tail it out first or Outrage for the 2HKO with burn damage.

    Lugia
    -Great Wall #1 ( Reflect ): Kyogre, Latias and Skarmory + Jirachi's Toxic. Since it lacks Sub, Jirachi can always threaten it. If it has Multiscale, Kyogre and Latias will fail. Taunt still screws it up though.
    -Sub Toxic: Skarmory beats it. Latias can attack it for some damage and Kyogre can revenge.
    -Specially Defensive: Skarmory shuts it down
    -Calm Mind: Jirachi owns it. Skarmory can Taunt and phaze it.

    Giratina
    -Great Wall #2: Latias and Skarmory can kill or Taunt it. I will hate the burn but in exchange I get some extra Spikes. My Giratina-O can Dragon Tail it out first but will despise burns. Outrage can always 2HKO but I generally do not risk eating a burn.
    -Specially Defensive: Skarmory can Taunt and phaze it out. Groudon can tear a chunk out of it with EQ. Latias beats it. This time, Giratina-O's Outrage will severely wound it, and Dragon Tail will do a good amount. With SR and Spikes, its dead.

    Dialga
    -Support: Groudon OHKOes it :D Not much else otherwise, except maybe Skarmory can wall Thunder-less ones in rain. Latias can revenge kill it with Draco Meteor which will deal quite a large damage.

    Blissey
    -Standard Wish: Groudon, Skarmory, Jirachi and Giratina-O can squash it with Earthquake, Outrage, Taunt or Toxic. Not really a problem and Skarmory loves it for free Spikes.
    -Fire Blast + Softboiled: Giratina-O, Jirachi and Groudon. Skarmory can still set up on it in rain lol but I hate Fire Blast in the sun obviously. Pretty much the same as above otherwise.

    Chansey
    -Standard: Skarmory, Groudon, Giratina-O and Jirachi can all beat it.
    -Physically Defensive: See above.

    Forretress
    -Standard Spikes + Spin: Kyogre, Groudon, Latias and Skarmory can Taunt. Only annoying if it sets up multiple Spikes layers which it finds hard to do.

    Arceus-Ghost
    -Support: Kyogre drowns it, Jirachi Toxics and Skarm can Taunt. Rarely seen anyway.
    -Calm Mind: Jirachi can Toxic it and end its day. Kyogre can always revenge kill. Groudon can 2HKO it if I feel like risking it.

    Arceus-Steel
    -Calm Mind: Groudon, Kyogre, Skarmory. Giratina-O can burn it. If all fails, Kyogre can paralyze it with Thunder and Groudon can OHKO it.
    -Support; Groudon, Kyogre, Skarmory, same as above.

    Arceus-Grass
    -Support: Jirachi, Skarmory, Latias. Toxic will kill it slowly while Skarmory gets free layers: D

    Latias
    -Calm Mind: Jirachi and Skarmory does the same. See Offense section.

    Kyogre
    -RestTalk + Roar Scald: Latias...Giratina-O can always pummel it hard with Outrage or Dragon Tail with hazards but those burns sucks.

    Giratina-O
    -Mixed: Jirachi, Latias and Skarmory. Kyogre can always pick it off. It can't get past Jirachi at all who will happily Toxic it.
    -Double Phazer: Skarmory. Latias. Kyogre can destroy weakened ones.
    -Physically Defensive Will-O-Wisp: Latias, Skarmory, Jirachi. My steel-types hate the burn but that's not much I can do without adding in a Fire-type. Jirachi can Toxic and wait for it to slowly die while passing Wishes at the same time.

    Tier 2
    Arceus-Ground
    -Support: Rarely seen but I have Kyogre, Latias, Skarmory.
    -Physically Defensive: Giratina-O, Kyogre, Latias, Skarmory. Same deal here.
    -Swords Dance: Kyogre, Latias, Skarmory, Giratina-O. Kyogre OHKOes, Latias 2HKOes while surviving Stone Edge, Skarmory can set up Spikes, and phaze or Taunt it. Giratina-O laughs at Stone Edge, burns it, phaze or 2HKO with Outrage.

    Gyarados
    -Taunt Support: I don't know, I guess Gyarados will probably sweep me since I once defeated firecape's well built team.

    Skarmory
    -Standard Spikes: Kyogre, Latias. Skarmory can be a nuisance to deal with because I hate Spikes and it can set up on Jirachi and Giratina-O. Groudon can 2HKO with Fire Punch too.

    Gliscor
    -Sub Toxic: Kyogre + Skarmory. It can't set up on anyone but Jirachi who will just U-turn out. Latias can OHKO it as I am faster. Giratina-O can spam Outrage to hurt it while my Groudon prevents any possible free Subs.

    Jirachi
    -Standard Wish: Groudon, Kyogre, Skarmory and Giratina-O :D I can't really immediately OHKO it though except for Groudon and full power Kyogre Water Spout.
    -Choice Scarf: Kyogre, Groudon, Skarmory, Giratina-O and my own Jirachi :) It can't really do much due to its lack of power.

    Excadrill
    -Bulky Attacker: Groudon, Kyogre, Giratina-O. Its not as strong as offensive ones so Groudon and Kyogre have an easier time with this. Latias can KO it with Hidden Power Fire outside of rain in dire emergencies.

    Tentacruel
    -Tank + Scald: Groudon, Giratina-O. Almost extinct today. but Giratina-O blocks spin and OHKOes.
    -Acupressure: Groudon, Kyogre, Latias. Never seen this, except once from shrang.

    Heatran
    -Tank + Taunt: Kyogre, Groudon. Heatran generally sucks except for firecape's and rarely has much use. Anyway, Kyogre rapes it alive lol.
    -Choice Scarf: Kyogre, Latias, Giratina-O. This set is just an annoyance and it cannot get past my team with a fat Kyogre around. If that fails, I have Latias to slowly kill it with resisted moves lol.

    Ho-Oh
    -Standard Tank: Stone Edge from Groudon and Kyogre. Pretty much the same as most Ho-Oh sets, by it hits very hard in the sun :( Giratina-O has Outrage to knock it out :D
    -Physically Defensive: Kyogre drowns it :D Groudon can KO with Stone Edge. This set is a lot weaker so its easier to deal with.
    -Bulky Scarf: My Kyogre beats it, Giratina-O and Skarmory can come in on certain moves.

    Sorry for this short list but I am tired :(



    For those who want to steal this team (open)
    Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 156 SDef / 4 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Spikes
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind
    - Taunt

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Wish
    - U-turn
    - Toxic
    - Protect

    Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 168 HP / 136 SAtk / 204 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Water Spout
    - Surf
    - Thunder

    Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 112 HP / 200 SAtk / 196 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Roost
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Grass Knot

    Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 216 Atk / 252 Def / 40 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Outrage
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Dragon Tail
    - Will-O-Wisp

    Groudon @ Earth Plate
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 220 Atk / 24 Def / 12 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge
    - Fire Punch
  2. spuds4ever

    spuds4ever

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    Good team is good TR. Well played.

    DDray looks like a problem, but then again, what team doesn't struggle with ray.

    Idk how common SubCM lugia is (probably not common), but it seems like it could give you quite a lot of trouble, as can CMdarkceus. Not really sure how to deal with it without ruining this team's synergy, though :L

    Good team anyway, luvdisc'd.
  3. mtr

    mtr

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    One of the best stall teams I've seen in a while. What's more impressive is that there's no Genesect here. I figured stall needed Genesect just to deal with all the stallbreaking special attackers.
  4. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    Groudon / Kyogre / Latias / Giratina-O / Skarmory / Jirachi

    Hi, this is obviously a great team and is one of the few legit 'double weather' teams that you see running around in Ubers. A great defensive backbone backed up by two very underrated Steel-types makes this a formidable team to face...


    This team is weak to, in order of importance -

    Mixed Dancer Rayquaza - has the potential to severely hurt or OHKO everything. Can't let it set up either.

    Darkrai - simply because you have nothing to take the sleep, i guess groudon can take it after setting up sr !

    Mixed Zekrom - no arceus ground or grass makes the team sad :<

    Okay so these are some really obscure threats, outside of Darkrai, which will never sweep you anyway. That being said, the lack of a Rapid Spin user may be a bit worrisome against a double switching Deo-s or suicide Qwilfish, Forretress, or Tentacruel backed up by the right team...

    Of course, there is literally nothing I can change that would not compromise the team in some other, greater fashion. I really like fat Choice Scarf Kyogre.

    Great team.................................
  5. polop

    polop
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    ;_; this team is going to get stolen sooo much D: right when there's balance.

    JK, THIS TEAM IS EPIC :D. This is almost as entry hazard immune as that team that SOMEONE made that only had Tyranitar that took damage to hazards, it was probably you but someone was alt trolling me e.e.

    Anyways onto the rate. I really think Mix Claws K-Black may annoy this team. Yes its non-existent but it can find an opportunity to setup a Hone Claws and just start whacking things with Super Effective moves from there, and can basically OHKO-2HKO (well only rachi is the only thing 2HKOed) the entire team after. Latias is the only way you can get rid of it, and it can just switch out and come back in later (unless its outrage locked but you need to use Latias to force it to outrage...).

    Its not THAT much of a nuisance though unless its paired with something like Wobbufett but EVERY sweeper is threatening when paired with that 0_0. So if you can't find the slot to handle it its not too big. Really a simple switch of adding Iron Head on Jirachi fixes this problem though, but I can see what you mean if you can't find a slot to spare it (since you still have Latias but...). So its completely optional. Sub claws Zekrom may also "annoy" the team but it will have trouble setting up so its not exactly on any priority list either, really this team has so few flaws its hard to critique it without admiring its perfection, (well smash pass with Dialga ironically DOES walk through this team but the only way to fix it is Thunder Wave Jirachi but it really enjoys Toxic so its not on any priority list either :(. )

    Regardless this is a great team, but considering it's done by none other then trickroom, its no surprise.

    NO Gyarados gets Taunt too! That combined with Dragon Dance is enough to distinguish it from Giratina-O, gee give the fishy more credit :(. It even beats Gyro Ball Ferrothorn since it can't leech seed it and it can just run Substitute with Taunt to become immune to phazing. Granted you get one-move coverage then but THAT IS SINGLE HANDLY ENOUGH TO WALK THROUGH SOME STALL TEAMS. You also have intimidate which is really good. This part of the post is partially serious and not serious, you should be able to pick out which parts are which :D.

    Bbut, I thought you lied on EV spreads :( no fair. You should improve the speed of everyone by 12 points just to make sure you keep on winning those speed ties. NOW THAT, is non-negotiable.

    On a completely random side note, you forgot about Uber Cloyster in the threat list.
  6. trickroom

    trickroom
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    Dragon Dance Rayquaza will probably kill someone in this team sadly. However, it cannot set up on anyone, unless Kyogre is stuck on Surf. Jirachi can Toxic it then switch to Skarmory. V-Create DD Rayquaza is not really useful, and using White Herb means Groudon can easily live a +2 Outrage and OHKO back.

    Mixed Dancer is dangerous to this team and I only have Kyogre and Latias to catch it on the switch in. Kyogre can survive at least one unboosted Attack though :)

    Mixed Zekrom can't really be countered without Ground Arceus. So Groudon + Latias is all I got for it. Kyogre can still pick it off and Jirachi can take Draco Meteors then go Groudon. Prediction is the key.

    Black Kyurem does not enjoy hazards and Jirachi can go U-turn to Skarmory if it has Sub. +1 LO Fusion Bolt OHKO Skarmory though :( If it has Sub, I need something to die + Latias to beat it. Skarmory can survive any non boosted hit and if Kyurem has Sub, Outrage and Fusion Bolt, it has to use Outrage to take out Groudon which is where Skarmory can switch in.

    Groudon beats Zekrom one-on-one and I have Latias + Kyogre to keep it in check. Still a major issue though ;_;

    Not updating the threat list at the moment so its incomplete without all the obscure threats. I will probably just leave it like that because school sucks. No, Cloyster :(

    Thanks for rating Poppy, mtr, spuds4ever and oh Mr.Lol wrote a huge comment but very good !_! :) It highlights most of my team's weaknesses and yeah....Gyarados rules, I just put Giratina-O better because I seriously need the spinblock and I already mentioned Gyarados > RMT.
  7. Young Wild Free

    Young Wild Free

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    your team looks very weak to Mixed Dance Ray as said before and also weak to sub Palkia set, gladly that is not seen anymore
    good team dont really know how to change it
  8. trickroom

    trickroom
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    Chances are Sub Palkia will not sweep my team easily. It has to pick 3 moves, and without one coverage moves lets another member beats it. Without Fire Blast means Jirachi walls it, and if Palkia drops Thunder, Kyogre can 3HKO Palkia before Palkia can do the same lol. Regardless of the moves, Latias can survive one Spacial Rend and OHKO back, Thunder or Grass Knot will break the sub. After SR + Spikes, Palkia is going down to Groudon's Earthquake in one hit while Spacial Rend does not OHKO Groudon. Rain also allows Jirachi to easily survive Fire Blast, although Surf is an easy 3HKO, I have Wish + Protect.
  9. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    Just keep in mind those annoying Dialgas that run a ton of speed and SAtk with LO Draco Meteor because it will foil your Groudon plan and cost you a lot of momentum. Unfortunately there is no EV spread that guarantees that Groudon will survive and OHKO back, while also OHKOing defensive Dialgas (without Life Orb anyways), though 36 HP / 220 Atk / 252 SDef comes very close. Of course, you lose a lot of physical walling ability....

    Ok with that out of the way let's get into finding out the weaknesses and such.

    Gliscor is probably one of the biggest concerns at the moment imo. Sure, Groudon's Fire Punch will break its Subs every time but it can set up on Jirachi (and potentially Skarmory/Kyogre/Latias, depending on the situation) and still cause a lot of mess. If Gliscor doesn't have Taunt then Skarmory can stall it, but if it does you're in a tight spot. Unfortunately I don't exactly have a solution to this, unless you're willing to use Icy Wind Skarmory lol.

    Palkia as stated before can be quite a chore to handle because regardless of what weather you have out it can easily destroy your switch ins on a single mispredict. To fix this, and also handle whatever issues you have with mix zekrom and kingdra, you can try Grass Arceus over Latias, but this does make you more vulnerable to fires and Spikes. A set with CM Ice Beam Judgment Recover could work (Judgment due to Manaphy really). If you've found that Palkia isn't that much of an issue, just keep Latias.

    Expert Belt Groudon is an option to OHKO Rayquaza from full health, which is great if they decide to use MixRay lead

    Not much to say. Great team, a few issues here and there but for the most part the team should perform consistently well.
  10. trickroom

    trickroom
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    Yeah I know fast LO Dialgas, as they can OHKO Groudon with Draco Meteor. There's not much I can do :( 36 HP / 220 Atk / 252 SDef makes me weaker to Dragon Dance Rayquaza and things like Scarf Zekrom so I will just keep the current spread for now.

    Gliscor is always annoying but Skarmory needs all 4 moves to be effective. Taunt is needed to shut down Lugia and Ferrothorn. Icy Wind sucks X_X I probably have to just U-turn out with Jirachi or spam Whirlwind with Skarmory until Gliscor is dead :D Pretty sure -4 SpA Latias Draco Meteor still breaks Gliscor's Sub.

    Yeah Palkia can be hard to deal with. Grass Arceus like you said, makes me more Spikes and fire weak :( I can't drop Latias. Also, without Latias, I now lost a check to Kyurem-W, Kyurem-B, Giratina and even things like Forretress. I am keeping Latias but I like the Grass Arceus idea.

    I thought about Expert Belt but Earth Plate is more consistent vs things like opposing Groudon, Kyogre, Arceus, Mewtwo and Darkrai. I believe hitting those harder is better than hurting Rayquaza, Skarmory and Shaymin-S more.

    Thanks for rating.
  11. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Just saying, I'm not sure how you can brush off Electric Arceus so easily. Since you don't have Calm Mind OR Psychock on Latias, it just sets up in your face if it sees that you're not a Calm Minder. If Groudon's or Jirachi has taken some prior damage, it is completely wiping out your team since you have nothing to either kill it or cripple it.

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