1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

CAP 12 CAP 1 - Concept Assessment

Discussion in 'CAP Process Archive' started by reachzero, Mar 3, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight Well-shuffled and flush
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    Messages:
    7,500
    I think the most important part of momentum to learn from is the element of disruption. Disrupting whatever strategy your opponent has, whether by walling the threat they have out, removing their hazards, or blocking their attempts to remove your hazards its about controlling the field as it exists at that moment. Very, very few Pokemon can gain momentum if they cannot disrupt the opponent in some way. Most of the Pokemon that can't disript have such insane offensive prowess that to mimic that mold of momentum would not yeild any useful information. Landorus gains momentum by smashing skull A into dirt B. Repeatedly.

    I'll give a few examples of disruption since it only takes a few real forms.

    Imperviousness: Most stall teams operate with this as a principle. If a Pokemon can recover more damage than it sustains against the opponent's threat, the opponent must switch. Hippowdon, Skarmory, and Blissey are the most common examples of this, as they have reliable recovery and happily soak up attacks, draining their opponents PP while setting up their strategy. Imperviousness and hazards go hand in hand, as the ability to wall any of an opponents given threats and force switches is the key to maximizing momentum is stall. Reuniclus also exemplifies Imperviousness by combining Magic Guard's immunity to passive damage along with bulky stats and Calm Mind boosting. If you cannot immediately threaten it, it can set up its strategy uninhibited and you must switch before it gets out of hand.

    Arghonaut provided a different type of imperviousness, and it was the most disruptive Pokemon introuduced in 4th Generation CAP because it completely negated the strategy of stat-boosting. Any time Arghonaut came in on a stat-booster it was basically guaranteed to subvert their strategy. Stat-boosters often maxed out their speed and relied on their stat-booster to muscle through the opponent, and Arghonauts defensive competence rendered that strategy obsolete. It required opponents to play around it all match.

    Rapid Spin: Obviously the bane of most stall teams, Rapid Spin can turn around anywhere between 1-6 turns of setup in the blink of an eye. Just as important as the move itself is blocking its use, primarily through Ghost typing but also with Protect, or just finishing off a spinner before it can attack.

    Move Disabling: This one is less common, but takes many forms such as the concept namer Disable, Encore, Taunt, Torment, and Imprison. Disabling that one attack that is effective against that Pokemon can put your opponent in the same situation as imperviousness above.

    Status: Status has obvious disruptive qualities against most Pokemon, but each status is more specific as to what it disrupts. Burn doesn't disrupt many walls to the extent Toxic does, and Paralysis matters little unless it activates on the healing turn. It's also the most negated form of disruption. Attract and Confusion are similar and less well defended against, but their inconsistency is troubling.

    Dusk's note about threatening an opponent is also important. Just disrupting an opponent is not enough, once in your disruptive Pokemon must also be able to pose a credible enough threat on its own. Otherwise the only thing it can fall back on is its own imperviousness, and that's a losing strategy in heavily offensive metagames like Generations 4 and 5.
  2. wickdaggler

    wickdaggler

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,437
    I realize that going for a pokemon that can both offensively threaten enemies, and yet respond to situations defensively them at the same time might be really tempting, however that's probably not such a good idea since you'd be making a 'mon that would just be far overpowered. One stat focus or the other, I'd say.

    The situations that Joey is presenting are very interesting, backing your opponents into a corner, and, to put it in better words "checkmate"ing them. I'd like to see something that could respond to several somewhat specific situations, and being able to immediately threaten the opponent not through stats explicitly, but with situation specific moves and abilities that counter the current threat.

    Of course I have no idea what those moves or abilities would be since I honestly have no idea what the metagame is like right now. Which might just leave this entire post worthless. Just thought I'd give my two cents.
  3. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck you spin mine head right round right round
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,139
    Yeah, I think the biggest thing about Momentum is forcing your opponent to respond to you.
    While other people have listed ways, I think a big thing, beyond moves like U-turn and Memento, is be unpredictable. One of the reasons why Salamence was banned in 4th gen was because of its many options. It can be a Dragon Dancer, it can go mixed, and if you guess wrongly, you're screwed. Therefore, CAP 1 should not only make your opponent predictable, it should be unpredictable in itself. If we are trying to gain momentum, we also need to look on the flip side: we need to make this pokemon less susceptible to losing momentum.
    I think a good analogy to draw here for people who play chess is tempo. In chess, you can gain or lose tempos by achieving what you want to do in less or more moves. When you achieve your goals in one less move, that's gaining a tempo. When your force your opponent to diverge from his own plan and instead to respond to yours, your opponent loses a tempo. Tempo is especially relevant in this metagame where (not my original idea; I saw someone post this) the first person to get their "snowball" rolling and their strategy started will have the advantage (and momentum). This pokemon should not only reduce the opponents momentum but also be able to work towards a long-term "win condition" for the user's team.
  4. Paradox

    Paradox

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    234
    I think some nice definitions have been laid out already concerning what momentum actually is, I especially like reachzero's short-and-sweet "Controlling the flow of the match by maximizing the amount of time spent threatening compared to responding". This shows that there are two important parts to momentum, stopping "response" or taking the opponents momentum away, and threatening the opponent.

    Above, Deck Knight laid out some great examples of how you can take away an opponents momentum. Other examples I would offer (and I'm sure there are more!) are:

    Offensive Power: Being able to KO the opponent while it can do little back to you (by outspeeding and OHKOing, or taking little from any attacks and dealing significant damage back, etc).

    Field Control: Rapid Spin is part of this, and it would also include things like removing weather effects with your own, or stalling out TR.

    Effects: Here I would include effects like Taunt, Encore, or Torment. For example, Taunt can cripple supporters or status-spreaders out or Encore can render an opponent ineffective.

    And than there are ways to gain momentum. This can be done in tons of ways, all of which could presumably be dealt with by a "response" method. I think Niched did a great job by listing out some of these ways, below is a modified version of his list focusing specifically on gaining "threat":
    • Threatening many viable switch-ins Pokemon with powerful or Super Effective Moves
    • Threatening revenge killers (like Excadrill) with your own high speed or priority
    • Phaze the opponent (Roar, Dragon Tail, Yawn, etc) to rack up damage and disturb their countermeasures
    • Spread Status, use Leech Seed, etc
    • Boosting stats to beat checks and sweep
    • Setting up a field effect (Weather, Screens, Hazards, etc)
    • Getting a substitute up
    • Scouting (and taking advantage of) an opponents actions (U-turn/Baton Pass, Protect, etc)
    These are different ways in which you can maintain your own momentum. Of course, many strategies can overlap. For example, Scizor's powerful U-turn forces out many pokemon while also scouting a switch-in, and Substitute can block an opponents attempt to cripple you with status while giving you a free turn.

    I'm sure there are many more examples that can be provided, and what I think is important now is to decide on which of these strategies are most effective (for both threat and response) so that we can narrow down and decide on some (as we certainly can't do all of these things at once).
  5. Dark Pulse

    Dark Pulse

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    283
    What is momentum?
    ok, the biggest form of Momentum, in my opinion, is when a sweeper just seems to keep on going and going. The best example of a "momentus Sweep" is Poison Heal Breloom (we all know the one) - It uses spore, gets its sub up, it punches stuff, it seed bombs the rest, and it's almost unstoppable. A pokemon that can stop such sweeps in their tracks, (I dunno what, but you understand me right?) or prevent such a sweep from even beggining (such as a magic mirror pokemon in Breloom and his big brother Darkrai's case) would be the sort of pokemon we're interested in...
    [note: this IS my first time in CAP, so if I'm "poll Jumping" (which I'm trying to avoid) please let me know]

    How does a player gain or lose momentum?

    If I just stick with a momentus sweep example, I believe that such momentum is lost by a "counter" (such as subseed Breloom facing a ghost type ["why didn't I use seed bomb! Idiot!" says the Breloom user]) or by a bad prediction/good prediction by oponent (surfing onto a switched-in storm drain user, love that on my SS team)

    Momentum is gained by the ability to manouver around the opponent well, and by good predictions. If you can get the right move in at the right time, you can start a momentus sweep and clear 3 of the opponent's pokemon without realising.

    Pokemon good at Momentum

    Kojondo is the first pokemon that comes to mind when I think Momentum. Especially LO regen Kojondo. It's Blistering speed combned with a LO bossted Fake out/U-turn can often wound most pokemon.

    Just like Kojondo, Scizor, with it's Priority Bullet Punch and U-turn move combination is also good at breaking the opponents momentum, so U-turn and Priority may be good options on this Pokemon.
  6. Fusxfaranto

    Fusxfaranto there are many things that need to be erased
    is a Pre-Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    391
    I think that this concept is fairly broad, but there are a few things that I find are key for this concept. First of all, the pokemon must be able to switch in and out with ease; a SR resistant type could go along way in this, along with possibly spikes/toxic spikes immunity. U-turn and/or Volt Change would also be very helpful, with the ability to switch out without losing much momentum. Another important quality is the ability to force switches. This could be done either through offensive prowess or defensive moves such as Yawn. Finally, the pokemon should be able to take advantage of switches. A generally good move for switches is Substitute, to block status and such, but PHazing moves on a predicted switch (especially damage-dealing ones) would be very useful as well.
  7. sax king

    sax king

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2010
    Messages:
    769
    I think the greatest example of momentum is Moxie Honchkrow. STAB Sucker Punch turns things around completely, meaning that now the offensive pokes are being outsped and OHKO'd. The opponent goes from having a strong chance at sweeping to having to rely on non-damaging moves (which usually puts the opponent on the defensive). After each KO, Honckrow grows stronger, just giving your Honckrow sweep more and more potential. In fact, after a few boosts, even dark resistors are going to take a ton of damage. Honchkrow does have issues with steels. Pairing it with Magnezone just gives you even more momentum. Not only are you tearing through the opponent, but you are trapping and killing all attempts to stop your sweep.
  8. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2010
    Messages:
    2,538
    It seems that my main point, controlling tempo, has already been made. U-Turn is the obvious answer when someone is asked what aspect of the metagame relates the most to momentum, and for good reason. A slow U-Turn in an already advantageous situation guarantees that you hold control over the match (with the exception of the opponent death foddering something, in which case they have just taken control of the pace), and you have placed the opponent under pressure as you can respond optimally to his move, which in turn forces him to respond at a disadvantage. Which brings me to my point: An optimal reaction can be just as important for taking momentum as keeping the opponent responding. CAP1 should be able to serve as a defensive pivot if absolutely necessary. A balance between offensive scout and defensive pivot seems to be the best approach to this in my opinion, which I feel still leaves us plenty of room to decide on all of the various aspects of CAP1.

    On another note, I don't think this pokemon should be a stallbreaker. It should not be deadweight against stall, as that defeats the whole purpose, but it should not be able to bend it over like I've heard Kitsunoh could. Yes, we could take the easy route and let it faceroll any and all stall teams, but this leaves half of the momentum question unanswered, and that is the optimal response portion, which stall is built around. Ideally it should be able to have a place on stall itself (although perhaps not a top pick). As has already been brought up, entry hazards are a possibility, as they allow CAP1 to place pressure on the opponent on both offensive and defensive teams.
  9. Mektar

    Mektar

    Joined:
    May 25, 2010
    Messages:
    376
    In my opinion, the best way to gain momentum is to outpredict your opponent. The best way to do this is to trick your opponent into thinking that you'll use one move when you're actually using another. Take Scarf Genosect for example. Let's say you send it in on a Gyarados. Obviously they'll switch to their Randorosu to absorb the Thunderbolt. But, you use Ice beam instead, that kind of thing.
  10. pkmn-taicho321

    pkmn-taicho321

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,714
    Oh my, CAP revived.

    I have to say that this first concept feels... obscure, but not in a bad way. I really feel like I don't want to see another huge BST CAP, and this seems like the concept to get there.

    When I think of Momentum in a game I picture myself with a setup. I've set up spikes/ tspikes/ sr or set up a pass or cripple a key problem pokemon on my opponent's team. I picture regaining momentum as being able to heal up clear the field and set my own 'mon in motion while the opponent flounders for a handhold.

    The pokemon in the current metagame that I think is closest to this concept for me is Unaware Quagsire. I utilize him to come in on a dangerous sweep and negate any stat ups. Most of time I am able to avoid a sweep this way and it really sets the game back in motion in my favor

    I'm not saying that the only way that this CAP can be successful is with Unaware, but I think it fits, and i would love to see how far it can get, especially since Unaware pokemon don't need nearly as much physical buff to be defensive.
  11. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,171
    When I think of momentum, what comes first to my mind is the ability to repeatedly come in and go out and force the opponent onto the backfoot. It doesn't matter if your Krilowatt lacks X-Scissor, bringing him in on Celebi boldly is enough to gain momentum.

    This Pokemon must be able to pose a significant defensive or offensive threat in order to be able to obtain momentum. That's how I see it.
  12. pkmn-taicho321

    pkmn-taicho321

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,714
    So we are just turning this into another sweeper? I'm against this line of thought. Lets start out fresh with a pokemon who doesn't rely on force to change the game in it's favor
  13. reachzero

    reachzero the pastor of disaster
    is a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,524
    So, to recap what we know so far, momentum involves attempting to control the flow of the game by limiting the opponent's options and establishing a favorable position. Practically, we want CAP 1 to have opportunities to switch in and establish a favorable matchup. At that point, we want to have a way to capitalize on the favorable matchup in a way that further improves the team's favorable position. Two problems enter the situation here: we do not want this Pokemon to simply punish all responses with overwhelming offense, as doing so would force us to limit our opportunities to switch in in order to preserve balance; on the other hand, Pokemon that are very weak offensively have a tendency to become set-up bait for enemy sweepers. In other words, in order to maximize the momentum boost given by this Pokemon without creating something that is blatantly overpowered, it is important that we build CAP 1 to achieve its level of control through a balance of strength and finesse as opposed to through sheer brute force. Several approaches have already been suggested as to how CAP 1 could strengthen its teams position without simply bludgeoning the team into submission: phazing, status, screens, etc. This is definitely the route we want to take. I envision CAP 1 as being a lot more like Breloom or Heatran than like Excadrill or Hydreigon!
  14. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,171
    I put in the 'or' for this very reason. Like it or not, this is one of the best ways to explore momentum, because in common battle conditions, the normal way to gain momentum is to send out a threat that can force something else out, meaning you can "gain a tempo". This can be offensive or defensive.
  15. pkmn-taicho321

    pkmn-taicho321

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,714
    Chill with the bold, I get what you are trying to emphasize.

    I think one of the best ways to explore momentum is exactly the opposite however. We know alot about what gets a game going in an aggressive manor, but how can we build pressure without a direct power-house confrontation.

    That's were the real challenge lies, and were the most knowledge will be gained.
  16. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,967
    Explore? Hardly. Such a Pokemon would show us nothing we haven't already seen.
  17. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck you spin mine head right round right round
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,139
    I agree that CAP 1 probably should be a decent pivot.
    Ideally it would have resistance/immunities that do allow it to force switches.
    It would also probably need a moderately good support movepool, as has been stated before.
    Now, we've discussed gaining momentum quite a bit already. How about from the other side -- how pokemon lose momentum?
    Pokemon with Superpower or Draco Meteor can lose momentum because the resultant stat drop often forces them to switch out. Choice items can also make pokemon susceptible to losing momentum by forcing the pokemon to switch out of a resist.
    Faster U-turners can also lose momentum.
  18. Sambobz

    Sambobz

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    93
    I have been experimenting on PO trying to find out way's to gain momentum when my opponent is ahead on momentum. several ways to come out of nowhere that I have used are: the prankster ability with lunar dance or memento; a wall I can set up with like blissey or skarmory;
    Phazing and tricking too.
    scarfrachi and breloom, are fairly good at gaining momentum also.


    An alternate way to gain momentum that is hard to do with any existing pokemon is just do two things in one turn. some existing moves and abilities that accomplish this are: magic mirror, switching in while setting up on the opponent; U-turn/volt switch, damage and a free switch; and probably some more things I can't think of.

    I think this guy has the best definition.
  19. Chameleon

    Chameleon

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    155
    I don't have much to add regarding the definition of momentum - I agree that it involves forcing the opponent to react to your threats (whether it be direct damage, status, or hazards) with a change of plan until they can threaten you once again.

    I just want to emphasize the role of team structure and prediction in gaining momentum. For example, the momentum potential of a DD Mence is huge against unprepared teams, but much less against a team with Ice Shard Weavile. The wide range of choices for the opponent makes decision-making key as well, as an ineffective attack against a switch-in can cost you a sweep. How, then, do we make a Pokemon that embodies momentum if that capability is based so much on factors other than the Pokemon itself?

    I think a good approach is using moves that restrict the opponent's choices or prevent the the enemy's use of team synergy to its full potential: U-turn eases prediction, Stealth Rock reduces the opponent's ability to send in healthy counters, having predictable counters eases prediction, etc. Capefeather's list of moves and DarkSlay's Threat Elimination ideas brought up a lot on this topic. And like Reachzero said, we don't want overwhelming offense to rock the metagame.

    Just some thoughts, there are so many different ways to approach this concept.
  20. Scoopapa

    Scoopapa
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    972
    I agree, if we have a pokemon that forces a switch on a large amount of the metagame for fear of massive damage, we will have a pokemon that sweeps (or gets repeated KOs on switchins) once its counter is gone, which isn't really the goal of this as I understand it.

    Personally I see this unfolding in one of two ways. Firstc we could focus on defensive stats and typing, giving something like what's commonly referred to a defensive pivot (swampert of gen 4 comes to mind). Such a pokemon can survive powerful hits and has the right offensive or support moves to bring down, cripple, or delay any pokemon trying to set up and sweep your team. Offensively, it would have less than enough power to break walls, but enough power to force the walls to come out.

    Alternatively, I can see a build that focuses on speed to take advantage of some of the awesome support moves that could help this thing's cause, such as Encore, Taunt, U-turn, Destiny Bond, and Explosion (oh right >.<). If I'm right about not wanting this to become a sweeper, though, speed will probably come at the expense of offensive power, though.

    Mischievous Heart and priority are other things I can see helping out.
  21. doominic77

    doominic77

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Messages:
    394
    IMO, Momentum is when your in a good position or "on a roll". Say if your Gyarados has 6 DD boosts. You are in a position where you have an advantage over the opponent. Going on a sweep is my idea of momentum, especially if the opponent has no pokemon to end your streak. For example (throwing clauses out he window), if you have a Pyroak with Flamethrower and the opponent has 5 Shedinja.
  22. Fire Blast

    Fire Blast

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    2,093
    I agree with doominic, I think that the CAP should be able to continually be successful after 1 or two turns. So once the Pokemon is ready, it should be able to constantly give the player an advantage because of its stats/moves/whatever. It should also give the player choices and force the opponent into a disadvantageous position. The pokemon should also be able to help other pokemon into a postion in which they can constantly be successful too.
  23. Desolation101

    Desolation101

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    33
    I think of this pokemon as having average to good offensive stats and average maybe defensive stats with a great defensive typing maybe. Something where typing could be the defensive aspect so a little bit more power can be put into offense, I hope I am being clear with this.

    For example, Swampert has great defensive typing however only has mediocre defensive stats. But Swampert also has a strong offensive stat in its attack, which helps it not only keep control with its typing but also send back a punch at the opponent.

    A contrasting example which may also work would be something like Weezing, who has a great defensive typing along with its ability, yet it only has average offensive stats, however as see in early DP, it was still able to dominate and control the field.

    Both of my examples show different cases of good sponges with average to strong offensive stats as well,

    However although I site weezing as an example I personally feel a pokemon like Swampert is a better definition of Momentum. Especially when it comes to a set like Curse Swampert.

    Another example of a similar to Swampert from the special side of the spectrum is Zapdos, whose typing allows it to take hits and its stats allow it to dish out damage as well.
  24. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight Well-shuffled and flush
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    Messages:
    7,500
    Everyone: This isn't a bold voting thread, you don't have to bold half of your words.

    Try to say something more along the lines of expanding upon this:

    Specifically about what strategies can help strengthen a team's position rather than bolding random abilities or Pokemon.
  25. v

    v I'm on your six
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    ULTRA Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Messages:
    3,647
    I don’t play OU very much at all. However, I am an expert in Little Cup, a metagame where momentum is basically the most important concept. While it is true that responsiveness as in “the ability to respond and react to a threat” is important, it is equally important the Pokemon be able to able to do more than come into something and force it out. I would argue that momentum is not controlling the “flow” of the match, but controlling the “speed” of the match.

    “Offensive Momentum” can be defined as when the game’s speed is increased through a number of measures. Typically, offensive momentum is gained by forcing a switch and then using a stat-up move and hopefully to sweep the opponent. The more Pokemon you can kill, the faster the game. In OU, a good example of a Pokemon which effectively uses Offensive Momentum is Thundurus, which is able to both boost its Special Attack using Nasty Plot in addition to stopping supplementary moves with a priority taunt thanks to Mischievous Heart. When Thundurus switches in, the game immediately increases in speed. Thundurus can U-turn/Volt Change against a switch-in or Nasty Plot if you switch out or potentially KO what you’ve left in. Offensive Momentum forces the opponent to predict what you will do.

    “Defensive Momentum” can be defined as when the game’s speed is decreased to the advantage of one side. Defensive Momentum also stems from the creation of “free turns.” However, rather than switching in a Pokemon which is immediately threatening, a Pokemon that utilizes Defensive Momentum comes in because you cannot damage it enough to KO it outright. The Pokemon slows down the game by forcing a switch without doing anything to directly induce a KO in the match. Defense Momentum often entails entry hazards, though this is not the only kind of Defensive Momentum. A great example of a Pokemon that uses Defensive Momentum in OU but can be viewed as an offensive Pokemon is Rankurusu. It comes in not because it threatens to KO you, but because you cannot outright KO it. It then proceeds to stat-up, boosting both its offensive and defensive prowess, and eventually pull off a sweep. However, unlike Thundurus or Salamence, Rankurusu’s is not a Pokemon likely to outspeed and OHKO you. Rankurusu utilizes defensive pressure rather than offensive to achieve its ends. Skarmory is an awesome example of more traditional Defensive Momentum. It comes in against a Pokemon that cannot KO it and sets up entry hazards before running from the incoming threat. Skarmory creates defensive pressure just by switching into a Physical threat and slows down the match by creating a situation where neither Pokemon can KO the other. Skarmory, however, retains an advantage due to its ability to use Roost to regain health.

    I would like to see the concept attempt to be an OU version of “the best of both worlds,” a Pokemon that can create either offensive of defensive momentum when used properly. However, this may be difficult to do, as the only example of a Pokemon bulky and strong enough to do either offhand is Arceus and possibly Manaphy and Mew.

    edit: I'll mention some possible strategies our CaP could use.

    I was thinking something with mediocre offenses, goodish defenses, and godawful speed (yes, shocking coming from Mr 175, I know) with access to Mischievous Heart and some boosting moves such as Dragon Dance, Cosmic Power, Bulk Up and Calm Mind would allow it to initiate a sweep using either defensive or offensive pressure as a basis. Spikes and a recovery move would be a bit much, but would allow it to serve in a purely defensive capability as well.

    U-turn/Volt Change scouting is also an interesting concept for an offensively-minded Pokemon, but I would like to see a very defensive Pokemon try to use u-turn or volt change to create a desirable situation using a mixture of Defensive Momentum to force an opponent out while switching to an immediately-threatening Pokemon.

    Just my two cents.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)