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CAP 10 CAP 10 - Part 12a - Complete Movepool Discussion

Discussion in 'CAP Process Archive' started by Beej, Apr 19, 2010.

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  1. Beej

    Beej
    is a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2008
    Messages:
    574
    [​IMG]
    Krabby 2 - Electric Boogaloo

    Name: Krilowatt
    Typing: Water/Electric
    Stat Spread: 151/84/73/83/74/105
    Ability: Trace
    Ability: Magic Guard

    Now that we've decided what competitive moves are to be allowed or disallowed onto a movepool, it's time to finally commence movepool discussion/submissions. Here is a list of competitive moves that are allowed/disallowed on this Pokemon (Red = Attacking, Blue = Non-Attacking):

    Allowed Competitive Moves

    Surf
    Thunderbolt
    Ice Beam
    Waterfall
    ThunderPunch
    Ice Punch
    Earthquake
    Draco Meteor
    Dragon Pulse
    Avalanche
    Psychic
    Earth Power
    Payback
    Crunch
    Vacuum Wave
    Thunder
    Aqua Tail
    Crabhammer
    Rock Slide
    Rock Blast
    Low Kick
    Sucker Punch
    Outrage
    Dragon Claw
    Aqua Jet
    Dark Pulse
    Fire Punch
    Blizzard
    Signal Beam
    X-Scissor
    Superpower
    Overheat
    Aura Sphere

    Toxic
    Thunder Wave
    Perish Song
    Mirror Coat
    Counter
    Haze
    Psych Up
    Power Trick
    Imprison
    Magnet Rise
    Power Swap
    Substitute
    Snatch
    Magic Coat
    Rain Dance
    Heart Swap
    Aqua Ring
    Metal Sound (and Fake Tears)

    Disallowed Competitive Moves

    Fire Blast
    Flamethrower
    U-turn
    Hydro Pump
    Grass Knot
    Energy Ball
    Close Combat
    Hammer Arm
    Volt Tackle
    Stone Edge
    Bug Buzz
    Pursuit
    Charge Beam
    Focus Blast
    Cross Chop
    Brave Bird

    *Stat boosting moves of any kind (Swords Dance, Agility, Cosmic Power, etc.)*
    *Entry hazards (Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Stealth Rock)*
    *The screens (Light Screen, Reflect)*
    Recover
    Wish
    Pain Split
    Memento
    Lunar Dance
    Taunt
    Rapid Spin
    Recover
    Baton Pass
    Psycho Shift
    Will-O-Wisp
    Whirlwind
    Destiny Bond
    Trick Room
    Trick
    Heal Block
    Morning Sun
    Yawn
    Encore
    Transform

    ---

    Rules (other than the complete obvious):


    • A movepool must be submitted as a final submission for it to be included in the poll. However, this time please note that you may not submit a final submission unless I give you permission to do so. This is to prevent us from having a ridiculous number of movepools that are similar, or suck tremendously.

    • Your movepools should be very well-thought out. So many of the submissions threads in this forum have become people throwing shit at what has been coined a proverbial wall, hoping that it sticks. This is a terrible way to approach any submissions thread, but with something like movepool, this becomes even more true.

    • There are NO competitive moves allowed other than the ones listed. Generally speaking, the disallowed list should have caught the competitive moves we didn't want allowed, but if I deem a move competitive that we missed in discussion, it is unallowed outright. Please check these lists thoroughly.

    • Do not quote submissions or you will be infracted.

    • If you're going to respond to a submission, you need to post constructive criticism. If you just post "I like this!" or some similarly useless comment, you will be infracted.


    ---

    If you want a guide on how to build a pokemon's movepool, check here.

    If you want to discuss non-competitive moves to help your movepool on the creative end, check here for a discussion thread. Feel free to join the group.

    As always, have fun and show some common sense. Try not to make some ridiculously limiting movepool that doesn't give it any options, but also try not to make it the end-all versatilitymon. Go forth and discuss/submit!
  2. Korski

    Korski Distilled, 80 proof
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,142
    Final Submission

    Level-Up Moves (open)
    Level-Up Moves (16)

    – Splash
    – Charge
    – Tail Whip
    – Detect
    12. Spark
    12. Water Pulse
    16. Fury Cutter
    21. Confuse Ray
    25. Discharge
    30. Thunder Wave
    34. Imprison
    39. Signal Beam
    43. Double Team
    48. Heart Swap
    60. Zap Cannon
    60. Hydro Cannon

    As I was researching shrimp on Wikipedia, I came across a typical shrimp’s life cycle (“typical” refers to shrimp in general and not particular species of shrimp) from an egg to adulthood. Apparently, shrimp (in general) hatch from an egg into a baby form called a nauplii, metamorphose (Wikipedia’s wording) into two successive larval stages, zoeae and myses, and then finally transform into an adult form roughly 12 days after hatching.

    I have based my Level-Up list on this life cycle, assuming one pre-evolution for Krilowatt that comprises its earlier stages and evolves into its adult form at level 12 (~12 days). I found this to be very similar to the evolutionary lines of several Bug-types in terms of low-level evolution, so I tried to make Krilowatt a pseudo-cousin of these lines as a thematic element of my movepool, starting by giving the Krilo line near-functionless-ness until it reaches its final form, much like real-life shrimp.

    The idea here is that the preevolution will be hatched with only a rudimentary understanding of motor skills in the water (Splash) and of its own electrical capabilities (Charge). As it grows, it forms a tail (learns Tail Whip) and then develops the ability to see shapes and movement (learns Detect), as opposed to only being able to see light in its earlier form. As soon as it evolves into Krilowatt (its adult form), it gains elementary understanding of both its electrical and aquatic abilities (Spark and Water Pulse). From there its level up moves reflect three things: 1) moves conducive to its typing (Discharge, Thunder Wave); 2) its connection to the Bug-type evolution lines (Fury Cutter, Signal Beam); and 3) fun flavor moves (Confuse Ray, Imprison, Double Team, Heart Swap). Finally, at lvl. 60, Krilowatt masters the electrical and aquatic abilities it began learning when it evolved and learns Zap Cannon and Hydro Cannon. I really like the idea of a shrimp learning two moves that have the word “cannon” in them, both for the sakes of irony and badassery. This will also make Krilowatt the only Pokemon in the game to learn Hydro Cannon and Heart Swap by level-up.

    "But Krilowatt looks like a prevo, not an evolved Pokemon!!!" I have no problem with this, as there is humor in its 151 Base HP stat as well as this evolutionary progression. It's more like this:

    "Alright! Finally my useless [Pokemon] is evolving into something that can do something!"
    "Oh darn it's just a shrimp..."
    (but it's mighty!)

    I think there is a certain charm that goes with a Pokemon that is more or less "useless" until it evolves (things like Kakuna/Metapod and Magikarp/Feebas) and a certain sense of accomplishment when it finally evolves into something useful and amazing. Krilowatt is a very charming and amazing Pokemon, so I thought it would be fun to give it a similar evolutionary process.

    TMs/HMs (open)
    TMs/HMs (47)

    Code:
    TM02 – [B]Dragon Claw[/B]
    TM03 – Water Pulse
    TM06 – [B]Toxic[/B]
    TM07 – Hail
    TM10 – [B]Hidden Power[/B]
    TM13 – [B]Ice Beam[/B]
    TM14 – Blizzard
    TM15 – Hyper Beam
    TM17 – [B]Protect[/B]
    TM18 – [B]Rain Dance[/B]
    TM21 – Frustration
    TM24 – [B]Thunderbolt[/B]
    TM25 – Thunder
    TM26 – [B]Earthquake[/B]
    TM27 – Return
    TM29 – [B]Psychic[/B]
    TM32 – Double Team
    TM34 – Shockwave
    TM42 – Façade
    TM43 – Secret Power
    TM44 – [B]Rest[/B]
    TM45 – Attract
    TM49 – Snatch
    TM50 – [B]Overheat[/B]
    TM54 – False Swipe
    TM55 – Brine
    TM56 – Fling
    TM58 – Endure
    TM59 – [B]Dragon Pulse[/B]
    TM66 – [B]Payback[/B]
    TM68 – Giga Impact
    TM70 – Flash
    TM72 – [B]Avalanche[/B]
    TM73 – [B]Thunder Wave[/B]
    TM78 – Captivate
    TM79 – [B]Dark Pulse[/B]
    TM80 – [B]Rock Slide[/B]
    TM81 – [B]X-Scissor[/B]
    TM82 – [B]Sleep Talk[/B]
    TM83 – Natural Gift
    TM87 – [B]Swagger[/B]
    TM90 – [B]Substitute[/B]
    TM91 – Flash Cannon
    HM01 – Cut
    HM03 – [B]Surf[/B]
    HM05 – Whirlpool (HGSS)
    HM07 – [B]Waterfall[/B]
    This list was pretty much a grab bag. I wanted to keep this list as limited as possible while keeping Krilowatt's options open. The "notable" moves are fairly obvious, while the flavor moves and purely "why not?" options have been kept to a minimum, as I felt that the TM/HM list was not the place to show off a Pokemon's personality and is instead a good place to not let the movepool balloon out of control. Also note that Kril has access to Flash Cannon (not notable despite its high BP due to the complete uselessness of non-STAB Steel-type moves), making it the third "Cannon" move in its movepool and allowing an irony set of Zap Cannon / Hydro Cannon / Flash Cannon to be available for lulz.

    Tutor Moves (open)
    Tutor Moves (DPPtHGSS; 16)

    Fire Punch
    Fury Cutter
    Ice Punch
    Knock Off
    ThunderPunch
    Vacuum Wave
    Magnet Rise
    Swift
    Aqua Tail
    Dive
    Earth Power
    Rollout
    Signal Beam
    Bug Bite
    Low Kick
    Magic Coat

    Again, kind of a grab bag of stuff that wasn’t covered in the Level-up/TM list. The only real competitive and not just “notable” items from this list are Earth Power and Low Kick, and some of it is pure flavor (Fury Cutter, Swift, Bug Bite relate back to Krilowatt’s connection to the Bug-type Pokemon).

    Egg Moves (open)
    Egg Moves (Bug / Water 1; 11)

    Code:
    [B]Counter[/B] – Blastoise, Crawdaunt, Delibird, Feraligatr, Forretress, Gastrodon,
    Gliscor, Golduck, Heracross, Illumise, Ludicolo, Parasect, Politoed, Poliwrath,
    Quagsire, Scizor, Slowbro, Slowking, Swampert
    
    [B]Crunch[/B] – Crawdaunt, Drapion, Feraligatr, Floatzel, Flygon, Gorebyss, Huntail,
    Walrein
    
    [B]Disable[/B] – Ariados, Dewgong, Golduck, Kingdra, Slowbro, Slowking, Venemoth
       
    [B]Fake Tears[/B] – Azumarill
    
    Haze –  Blastoise, Dragonite, Mantine, Masquerain, Milotic, Octillery, Omastar,
    Politoed, Poliwrath, Quagsire
       
    Lock-On – Octillery
    
    Me First – Slowbro, Slowking
       
    [B]Mirror Coat[/B] – Blastoise, Corsola, Gastrodon, Mantine, Milotic, Swampert
       
    [B]Perish Song[/B] – Azumarill, Dewgong, Kricketune, Lapras, Politoed
       
    Psybeam – Ariados, Butterfree, Dustox, Golduck, Ledian, Mantine, Masquerain,
    Mothim, Octillery, Parasect, Venemoth, Wormadam, Wormadam-G, Wormadam-S
      
    Whirlpool – Azumarill, Bibarel, Blastoise, Clamperl, Corsola, Crawdaunt, Dewgong,
    Dragonite, Empoleon, Feraligatr, Floatzel, Gastrodon, Golduck, Gorebyss, Huntail,
    Kabutops, Kingdra, Lapras, Ludicolo, Mantine, Milotic, Octillery, Omastar,
    Pelipper, Politoed, Poliwrath, Quagsire, Relicanth, Slowbro, Slowking, Swampert,
    Walrein
    Legal Move Combos

    Counter + Crunch + Whirlpool (Crawdaunt, Feraligatr)
    Counter + Haze + Mirror Coat + Whirlpool (Blastoise)
    Counter + Disable + Me First + Whirlpool (Slowbro, Slowking)
    Counter + Perish Song + Whirlpool (Politoed)
    Counter + Disable + Psybeam + Whirlpool (Golduck)
    Fake Tears + Whirlpool (Azumarill)
    Haze + Lock-On + Psybeam + Whirlpool (Octillery)
    Mirror Coat + Psybeam + Whirlpool (Mantine)

    Finally, the tutor moves. Here is where I put the fun pseudo-gimmicky moves I wanted to see on Krilowatt like Counter, Disable, Fake Tears, Lock-On, Me First, Mirror Coat, and Perish Song. Because of the unusual egg group combination and three single-father (or "dual-father" in terms of Me First) moves, the illegal move combo list is extensive; however, none of the illegal combos are terribly significant or are moves one would put together on the same moveset anyway, so I’m not worried about being overly convoluted or tricky with these things. I put Krilowatt in the Bug Egg Group because shrimp are kind of like water bugs (shrimp and cockroaches share a common ancestor, actually), and this one has six legs (or appendages, at least) and antennae like a bug. It also connects back to Kril’s evolutionary relationship to the Weedle et. al. lines, which I thought was important to keep as a theme throughout the movepool development. I also put it in the Water 1 Group in deference to Manaphy for using its signature move (Heart Swap). Aside from that, Water 1 had the moves I was looking for and in good distribution. While the Water 3 Group does indeed have the other PokeCrustaceans, half of Water 3 is in Water 1 or Bug already (including Crawdaunt), so the two are closely linked and the difference between them negligible, at least in terms of flavor.

    Summary (open)
    Summary (86 moves total)

    Notable Attacking Moves (25, 6 STAB)
    Code:
    [B]Dusk haz mad formattin' skillz[/B]
    [B]------------------------------
    [/B]
    Including all types for full coverage picture. No Flying, Ghost, Grass, or Poison 
    moves at all due to coverage-redundancy, "Disallowed" status, or uselessness 
    reasons. Types with only one attack on a particular spectrum (Psychic, Rock) 
    don't need physical/special options to counter anything of note. This list is
    comprehensive, so if you don't see a notable attack of a certain type or on a 
    certain spectrum here, then it isn't in this movepool.
    
    [B]Type [/B]       [B]Physical[/B]                [B]Special[/B]
    [B]----        --------[/B]            [B]    -------[/B]
    Bug:        X-Scissor               Signal Beam
    Dark:       Payback, Crunch         Dark Pulse
    Dragon:     Dragon Claw             Dragon Pulse
    Electric:   ThunderPunch            Thunderbolt, Discharge
    Fighting:   Low Kick                Vacuum Wave
    Fire:       Fire Punch              Overheat
    Flying:     –                       –
    Ghost:      –                       –
    Grass:      –                       –
    Ground:     Earthquake              Earth Power
    Ice:        Ice Punch, Avalanche    Ice Beam
    Normal:     –                       Hidden Power*
    Poison:     –                       –
    Psychic:    –                       Psychic
    Rock:       Rock Slide              –
    Steel:      –                       –
    Water:      Waterfall, Aqua Tail    Surf
    
    *Hidden Power is listed as a Normal-type move but can be any type, of course.
    Notable Non-Attacking Moves (16)

    Confuse Ray, Counter, Disable, Fake Tears, Imprison, Knock Off, Magnet Rise, Mirror Coat, Perish Song, Protect, Rain Dance, Rest, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Swagger, Thunder Wave, Toxic

    “Allowed” Moves not in Movepool

    Draco Meteor – I really thought Claw and Pulse were enough here. The fear of DM/Heart Swap is enough to not add this superfluous move, as it gets much better coverage than Overheat in terms of spamming it for HSing. Add to that the limited utility of running Dragon moves over Ice moves and Draco Meteor seems even more excessive, at least to me. Even so, it's weaker than Thunderbolt and Surf while stronger than Ice Beam, so its utility would be confined to countering Dragon-types, which it can do just as fine without it. In fact, of all the OU Dragons, Draco Meteor is pretty much only the "best option available" for Kingdra, who even still has ways of getting around it. Too much hype.

    Outrage – A really useless move, imo, especially unSTABbed. Being locked into this move in this metagame is suicide unless there's some serious power behind it, something that eludes Krilowatt in most respects. In most cases, it is worse than Draco Meteor and I've already explained why DM is not overpowered but superfluous, so Outrage must naturally be superfluous as well.

    Crabhammer – A flavor move I just don’t think fits. I understand the crustacean connection, but I just don't see the necessity. Kril has Aqua Tail and Waterfall for physical Water STAB and more entertaining flavor moves to abuse than this.

    Rock Blast – An interesting move, but one that I ultimately thought to be too weak and situationally useful to try and force into the movepool over other options.

    Sucker Punch – I consider Sucker Punch to be a cheap way of getting a hit off on foes like Latias and Celebi who resist Krilowatt’s STAB attacks or Gengar and Starmie who threaten Krilowatt with their higher Speed and offers nothing to the concept otherwise. I could have thrown it into the tutor moves section, but I just didn’t want Krilowatt to have it, period. I don’t think people will miss it too much.

    Aura Sphere – A special Fighting-type move would add a lot to Krilowatt in terms of coverage; however, that seems to be the only addition it would make. Low Kick is a fantastic Fighting-type option in the physical movepool and counters exactly what it needs to, so trying to awkwardly get Aura Sphere into the level-up list (the only place it could reasonably go) seemed redundant and wasteful.

    Aqua Jet – I decided no on Aqua Jet to dissuade priority abuse. While not terribly powerful of a move, Aqua Jet backed up by LO could easily pick off weakened foes late-game and priority in general is something I don't think Krilowatt needs to function properly. Vacuum Wave is acceptable as a means of picking off SubPetaya Empoleon or doing some moderate damage to Lucario if you're too weak to withstand Extremespeed. Even so, it is situationally useful and, as such, more in-tune with the concept than I believe Aqua Jet to be.

    Power Trick – Swapping base 74 and 83 stats for some kind of strategic advantage is something I don’t think anybody has time for. Fitting it into the movepool would have been awkward and unnecessary.

    Power Swap / Psych Up – These moves are covered by Heart Swap and all three are gimmicks, so I wouldn’t worry.

    Aqua Ring – There really wasn’t much room for it, apart from it being a relatively unuseful move competitively and an uninteresting gimmick move, even with Magic Guard, so I opted for more interesting gimmick, flavor, and/or competitive moves.

    Superpower – It is with a heavy heart that I keep Superpower out of the movepool. It's use is purely to combat Blissey on LO sets and that just isn't fair. Low Kick will suffice.

    Comments (open)
    Comments

    This movepool consists of 86 moves, 42 of which I have deemed “notable,” as in “at least moderately feasible on any given non-gimmick set” and have been bolded throughout the post. I was aiming for a 50/50 notable/non-notable split, so I think I got things just about right without having to make any awkward or outrageous moves. It’s a large enough movepool without being too large, imo, especially considering how Krilowatt will need a somewhat large movepool to stay versatile, unpredictable, and useful.

    From a competitive point of view, I wanted to give Krilowatt enough versatility without forcing its hand at any point in the decision-making process. In most cases, for every special attack of a certain type, there is a physical counterpart so Kril can prey on an opponent's weaker defense, whichever it is, or use a particular attack in conjunction with other complimentary attacks or moves on the same spectrum. With the concept assessed as a defensive Pokemon and the "Allowed" moves leaning more toward offensive options (as well as Magic Guard making Life Orb a desirable item choice), coming up with a balance was tricky. What I came up with was a movepool that operated offensively but from a defensive point of view. With a few exceptions, coverage moves have generally low Base Power initially or lower BP over multiple uses (Overheat). What I like especially are the gimmick options like the Counter / Mirror Coat combination as perfect examples of what I was trying to achieve with this movepool in regards to fulfilling the concept. Swagger + Heart Swap and Fake Tears are additional examples of this. Basically I envision a special wall set similar to Lanturn (TWave/TBolt/Surf/Ice Beam) and a parafusion set similar to Lanturn (Confuse Ray/TWave/TBolt/Surf(/Ice Beam)) being somewhat standard along with the inevitable LO set and then a slew of pseudo-gimmicky sets that will prove useful for fulfilling the concept and countering certain, specific threats (CounterCoat/SwaggerSwap/Fake Tears/etc.).

    Fun Things (notable gimmicks)!

    Counter + Mirror Coat – A really fun combo that has yet to see the light of day on a competitive moveset outside of Ubers. Krilowatt's high HP and good defenses (Wobbuffet?) means it can really take advantage of these two moves, if not in conjunction then certainly apart and can net some interesting surprise KOs if you can predict well. Lack of Shadow Tag and Encore mean it won't be the absolute menace Wobbuffet is, and a lack of reliable recovery means it probably won't be able to pull off the maneuver more than once in common battle conditions (on its own).

    Swagger + Heart Swap – I really like the idea of this combo, as it gives Krilowatt a consistent ability to use Heart Swap and possibly score a free +2 Atk for its two attacking moves of choice. You can use Swagger on a switch-in and Heart Swap for the boosts the next turn as the opponent has a 50% of attacking you or hurting itself, helping your cause in the case of the latter. If your switch-in is slower, the boost is more or less free if you're willing to risk taking a hit, and if the opponent is faster and at all threatening (Scarfgon...), you might have made a drastic error. Similarly, if the opponent switches out the confused Pokemon, your strategy's gone to waste and you have to try all over again.

    Fake Tears + SpA movepool – This combo acts as the SpA alternative to SwaggerSwap (*coining) and has its own advantages and disadvantages compared to the other. The advantages are that it only takes up one moveslot, makes use of Krilowatt's "more impressive" special attacking movepool, and can more consistently cause switches. The disadvantages lie in the lack of Confusion status so that your opponent can help you take it down and that the opponent is more likely to switch out than if you had used Swagger, meaning your chances of taking advantage of the 2-stage boost over multiple turns are more limited.

    Lock-On + Zap Cannon
    – This two-turn mega-damage-paralysis-spreading combo will be a blast. Naturally, Zap Cannon's accuracy is a meager and uncompetitive 50%. With Lock-On, it'll hit every time, barring Protect or a Ground-type opponent. Spreading paralysis while dishing out 120 BP STAB moves? Yes, please.

    Whirlpool + Perish Song – Ah the Perish Trap that was never to be (sorry Colossoil, you had better things to do). With great typing and bulk, Krilowatt should be able to viably Perish Trap one Pokemon over the course of a battle with something like Perish Song (switch-in) + Whirlpool (attack) + Protect (attack) + switch out (attack/faint). So long as the switch-in can't OHKO, Kril should be able to Perish Trap it quite effectively.

    Overheat + Heart Swap – Perhaps what could be a controversial combination, swapping negative boosts with the opponent could become an annoying strategy. It's a pretty gimmicky setup to me, but it could prove to be useful in some strategic capacity.

    Me First + common battle conditions where opponents use attacks that are SE against themselves – Me First is a very gimmicky move that I personally really like. Pokemon like Lucario (CC), Dragons (Outrage-locked MixMence or +0 Kingdra), non-Scarf Heatran (EP), Metagross (EQ), Rotom-A (Shadow Ball, even 210 BP Leaf Storm will do respectable damage to defensive Rotom-C), CBTar (EQ), etc. will all be using moves that are SE against themselves on a semi-regular basis, making Me First a very interesting move, as you will get pseudo-STAB as you attack and still hit your opponent first. It would also be very fun hitting Machamp with a 150 BP DynamicPunch so it can confuse hax itself to death and get a taste of its own medicine.
  3. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    4,806
    Approved to be a Final Submission by BEEJ

    I am submitting the following movepool for consideration for Krilowatt:
    TM/HM List (open)
    TM/HM List (17 Notable Moves)
    Code:
    [B]Moves:[/B] [B](45)[/B]
    TM02 - Dragon Claw
    TM03 - Water Pulse
    TM06 - Toxic
    TM07 - Hail
    TM10 - Hidden Power
    TM13 - Ice Beam
    TM14 - Blizzard
    TM15 - Hyper Beam
    TM17 - Protect
    TM18 - Rain Dance
    TM21 - Frustration
    TM24 - Thunderbolt
    TM25 - Thunder
    TM26 - Earthquake
    TM27 - Return
    TM29 - Psychic
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM34 - Shock Wave
    TM41 - Torment
    TM42 - Facade
    TM43 - Secret Power
    TM44 - Rest
    TM45 - Attract
    TM49 - Snatch
    TM50 - Overheat
    TM54 - False Swipe
    TM55 - Brine
    TM56 - Fling
    TM58 - Endure
    TM59 - Dragon Pulse
    TM66 - Payback
    TM67 - Recycle
    TM68 - Giga Impact
    TM70 - Flash
    TM72 - Avalanche
    TM73 - Thunder Wave
    TM78 - Captivate
    TM80 - Rock Slide
    TM82 - Sleep Talk
    TM83 - Natural Gift
    TM90 - Substitute
    HM01 - Cut
    HM03 - Surf
    HM06 - Rock Smash
    HM07 - Waterfall
    

    Notable Moves: Dragon Claw, Toxic, Ice Beam, Blizzard, Rain Dance, Thunderbolt, Thunder, Earthquake, Psychic, Overheat, Dragon Pulse, Payback, Avalanche, Thunder Wave, Rock Slide, Surf, Waterfall
    Level-Up List (open)
    Level-Up List (6 Notable Moves)
    Code:
    [B]Moves:[/B] [B](16)[/B]
    Lv. H  Aqua Jet
    Lv. -  Scratch
    Lv. -  Tail Whip
    Lv. 5  Water Gun
    Lv. 8  Thundershock
    Lv. 13 Fury Cutter
    Lv. 17 Bubblebeam
    Lv. 22 Counter
    Lv. 26 Discharge
    Lv. 30 Me First
    Lv. 37 Imprison
    Lv. 42 Follow Me
    Lv. 48 Guillotine
    Lv. 54 Zap Cannon
    Lv. 57 Perish Song
    Lv. 60 Heart Swap
    

    Notable Moves: Aqua Jet, Counter, Discharge, Imprison, Perish Song, Heart Swap

    I took a very Scyther-merged-with-Chinchou feel for the flavor moves, as can be seen with Aqua Jet as a Heart Scale move. His movepool gets more exciting as it goes on, with him obtaining Counter followed by Crunch, Perish Song, and lastly Heart Swap. These are all very important for different approaches to utility countering, so I wanted them available at all times. Me First is perhaps my favorite of these flavor moves, as it allows Krilowatt to take on slower foes successfully if it properly predicts and is all around a very fun move to have. Follow Me is perhaps one of my favorite moves in the game, despite being useless in single battles. If Shoddy Battle 2 ever comes out, Krilowatt would be a great team player with the move.

    Finally, Imprison in his level-up list lets him attempt to utility counter numerous different things by not allowing them to use any of their moves! This is accentuated further by the fact that Krilowatt's movepool is so large, that who knows? It might actually be viable.
    Egg Move List (open)
    Egg Move List (9 Notable Moves)
    Code:
    [B]Egg Group(s):[/B]
    Water 3
    Bug
    
    [B]Moves:[/B] [B](12)[/B]
    Crabhammer
       (Kingler, Crawdaunt)
    Guillotine
       (Kingler, Pinsir, Crawdaunt, Gliscor)
    Haze
       (Kingler, Omastar, Tentacruel)
    Confuse Ray
       (Cradily, Tentacruel, Kabutops, Corsola, Drapion)
    Draco Meteor
       (Flygon)
    Crunch
       (Crawdaunt, Drapion)
    Poison Fang
       (Drapion)
    Mind Reader
       (Ninjask)
    Rock Blast
       (Omastar, Corsola, Armaldo)
    Mirror Coat
       (Tentacruel, Corsola, Cradily)
    Aqua Ring
       (Corsola)
    Clamp
       (Cloyster)
    

    Notable Moves: Crabhammer, Haze, Confuse Ray, Draco Meteor, Crunch, Rock Blast, Mirror Coat, Aqua Ring, Clamp

    Legal Egg Combinations:
    Crabhammer + Guillotine + Haze (Kingler)
    Crabhammer + Guillotine + Crunch (Crawdaunt)
    Confuse Ray + Rock Blast + Mirror Coat + Aqua Ring (Corsola)
    Confuse Ray + Haze + Mirror Coat (Tentacruel)
    Confuse Ray + Poison Fang + Crunch (Drapion)
    Draco Meteor (Flygon)
    Mind Reader (Ninjask)
    Clamp (Cloyster)

    Important things to note here are that the offensive options, Crabhammer and Crunch, are illegal with the support options. Crabhammer is legal alone with Haze through Kingler if desired. Corsola gives excellent egg moves in Rock Blast, Confuse Ray, Mirror Coat, and Aqua Ring all at once. Draco Meteor is also accessible through Flygon at the expense of every other Egg move (as long as Flygon is carrying a Dragon Fang during the breeding process).

    Access to Mirror Coat completes the CounterCoat combination (Counter being from his level-up list). This also backs Krilowatt up with Aqua Ring if it wants to try some crazy CounterCoat set with bonus healing.

    Clamp combines with Perish Song from the level-up move list to create a Perish Trapper set for Krilowatt to try and run. Clamp also comes at the cost of getting absolutely no other egg moves if the user wants to have it. I chose Clamp for this over Whirlpool because I could see Krilowatt using its claws to clamp things down, and Clamp is a more accurate, higher base power move anyways.

    Confuse Ray was important to me because it's practically the most memorable part about Lanturn. I wanted it to be an egg move, though, and due to its distribution ended up being legal with nearly every other egg move. I cannot wait to try parafusion on Krilowatt for fun.

    The Bug egg group is important mostly as it gives Krilowatt access to Draco Meteor through Flygon. Beyond that, though, it is mostly there for flavor, as it allows access to Mind Reader which can be used with Krilowatt's Zap Cannon or Guillotine. In addition, you'll notice that Guillotine as an egg move is redundant with his level-up list; I did this because many other in-game Pokemon do it and it fits flavor-wise with getting Crabhammer from Kingler. Furthermore, as a shrimp, Krilowatt sure looks like it belongs to the bug egg group.
    Move Tutor List (open)
    Move Tutor List (11 Notable Moves)
    Code:
    [B]Moves:[/B] [B](18)[/B]
    Thunderpunch
    Fire Punch
    Ice Punch
    Dive
    Swift
    Aqua Tail
    Outrage
    Knock Off
    Sucker Punch
    Rollout
    Magnet Rise
    Earth Power
    Helping Hand
    Magic Coat
    Low Kick
    Signal Beam
    Icy Wind
    Twister
    

    Notable Moves: Thunderpunch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Outrage, Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Magnet Rise, Earth Power, Magic Coat, Low Kick, Signal Beam

    The move tutor list rounds out all of Krilowatt's coverage, supplying as many of the important coverage moves it needs as possible without overdoing it. I really tried to fit as many flavor-fitting options into the rest of the movepool, and then sort out the "obscure" moves in the move tutor list (Such as Sucker Punch). Flavorwise, we get such lovelies as Swift so our shrimpy can shoot stars, Twister since I could see him spinning in circles to do that similar to Whirlwind, and Dive because that's what shrimp do.

    You'll also notice immediately the lack of Superpower. Originally, I was a big supporter of it with its immediate power and over time weakening, but I saw the light after a few late nights of calculations. With Stealth Rock and Sandstorm, Blissey can be OHKO'd by a mixed sweeper variant of Krilowatt. Meanwhile, if we instead use Low Kick, you still cover Tyranitar, cover Snorlax better, but fail to 2HKO Blissey. With Overheat making a showing in the movepool to hit Lucario the hardest, there's no reason to have Superpower except to facilitate obliterating Blissey. For this reason, it doesn't appear here.

    Conclusion:

    One thing you will immediately notice is the lack of such allowed moves as Aura Sphere, Vacuum Wave, X-Scissor, Zen Headbutt, or Dark Pulse. The reasoning for this is that I wanted to force Krilowatt to use either physical or special sets if it demanded a specific type of coverage. I've listed it below for your edification.
    Code:
    Eliminating Steel, Poison, and Normal for being generally poor attacking types
    and then eliminating Ghost for its largely redundant coverage with Dark and
    Flying for the lack of really excellent moves, the following 12 types are being
    considered in no particular order.
    
                [B]Special[/B]                      [B]Physical[/B]
                ------------                 ------------
    Fire:       Overheat                     Fire Punch
    Water:      Surf                         Waterfall, Crabhammer, Aqua Tail
    Electric:   Thunderbolt                  Thunderpunch
    Grass:      HPGrass                      -
    Bug:        Signal Beam                  -
    Rock:       -                            Rock Slide, Rock Blast
    Ice:        Ice Beam                     Ice Punch
    Ground:     Earth Power                  Earthquake
    Dragon:     Dragon Pulse, Draco Meteor   Dragon Claw, Outrage
    Dark:       -                            Crunch, Payback
    Psychic:    Psychic                      -
    Fighting:   -                            Low Kick
    Physical obtains all coverage except Grass, Bug, and Psychic, which are minor setbacks. Special lacks Rock, Dark, and Fighting, all of which are excellent attacking types. You'll also notice that the attacking options on the special side are generally much more powerful than on the physical side, the only exception being Earthquake. This is mostly because of the poor physical options available to Krilowatt on the physical side, but also plays into why the physical side obtains excellent attacking types.

    In this way, Krilowatt will see usage as both a physical and special utility counter, something that was very important to me from the beginning of development of this movepool.

    Thanks for reading this! Cheers!
  4. QuimicVital

    QuimicVital

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2010
    Messages:
    184
    Not a Final Submission:
    Level Up (open)


    Lv1- Aqua Jet
    Lv1- Aqua Tail
    Lv1- Thunder Wave
    Lv1- Water Gun
    Lv9- Aqua Ring
    Lv14- X-Scissor
    Lv14- Aura Sphere
    Lv21- Low Kick
    Lv32- Metal Sound
    Lv42- Thunderbolt
    Lv43- Payback
    Lv51- Dragon Pulse
    Lv61- Counter
    Lv100- Heart Swap


    I put here moves this Pokémon needs for concept that you can't learn by any way excepting level up or Egg Move.

    TM/HM Moves (open)

    TM06 Toxic
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM13 Ice Beam
    TM14 Blizzard
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM21 Frustration
    TM24 Thunderbolt
    TM25 Thunder
    TM27 Return
    TM29 Psychic
    TM43 Secret Power
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM46 Thief
    TM50 Overheat
    TM54 False Swipe
    TM58 Endure
    TM59 Dragon Pulse
    TM66 Payback
    TM67 Recycle
    TM72Avalanche
    TM73Thunder Wave
    TM79Dark Pulse
    TM80Rock Slide
    TM81X-Scissor
    TM83Natural Gift
    TM90 Substitute
    HM01 Cut
    HM03 Surf
    HM06 Rock Smash
    HM07 Waterfall


    I put here every move that this Pokémon needs and is in the list.


    Egg Moves (open)


    Mirror Coat
    Perish Song
    Crabhammer
    Icicle Spear
    Ice Shard


    Will continue this later.

    How to get them:
    Perish Song and Ice Shard (Lapras)
    Crabhammer (Crawdaunt)
    Mirror Coat (Corsola)
    Icicle Spear and Ice Shard (Cloyster)

    Will continue this later.


    Move Tutor (open)

    Superpower
    Signal Beam
    Sucker Punch
    Magnet Rise
    Twister
    Vacuum Wave
    ThunderPunch
    Ice Punch
    Earth Power
    Magic Coat


    This moves are very good for this Pokémon (not all). Will continue this later.
  5. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight DK! DK! Donkey Kong is here!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    Messages:
    7,616
    Now with Beej's approval, I dub thee Final Submission:

    Executive Summary (open)
    Executive Summary:

    My goal with this movepool is to provide CAP10 a lot of different coverage and support options while sticking to the concept of not covering too much at once. With the exception of a few fairly well segregated move combinations, almost all attack types can be used on a physical or special set. The support movepool is diverse and includes moves with excellent but largely situational uses.


    Level-Up (open)
    Code:
    [B]Level-Up:[/B]
    H. Rock Blast
    - Charge
    - Vicegrip
    4. Thundershock
    7. Copycat
    10. Haze
    14. Bubblebeam
    17. Aqua Jet
    22. Disable
    [B]27. Heart Swap[/B]
    27. Imprison
    [B]32. Crabhammer[/B]
    [B]40. Discharge[/B]
    [B]48. Me First[/B]
    56. Guillotine
    67. Zap Cannon


    Egg Moves (open)
    Code:
    [B]Egg Moves:[/B]
    
    Egg Group: Water 1 / Fairy
    
    Fire Fang
    Screech
    Fake Tears
    Ice Shard
    Refresh
    [B]Perish Song[/B]
    Poison Fang
    Crunch
    Mind Reader
    [B]Draco Meteor
    Aura Sphere[/B]
    Air Slash 
    Code:
    [B]Breeding Combinations:[/B]
    
    Fire Fang: [B]Granbull[/B], [B]Mawile[/B]
    Screech: [B]Feraligatr[/B], [B]Golduck, Huntail[/B], Kabutops, Octillery
    Fake Tears: [B]Azumarill[/B], [B]Breloom[/B], Clefable, Delcatty, [B]Mawile[/B], Minun, Pachirisu, Plusle, [B]Wigglytuff[/B]
    Ice Shard: [B]Dewgong[/B], [B]Glalie[/B], [B]Lapras[/B],
    Refresh: [B]Azumarill[/B], [B]Breloom[/B], Blissey, [B]Breloom, Golduck, Gorebyss, Huntail, Lapras,[/B] Milotic, [B]Politoed, Poliwrath[/B]
    Perish Song: [B]Azumarill, Dewgong, Lapras, Politoed, Wigglytuff[/B]
    Poison Fang: [B]Mawile[/B]
    Crunch: Crawdaunt, [B]Feraligatr,[/B] Floatzel, [B]Glalie, Gorebyss, Granbull, Huntail, Mawile[/B], Walrein
    Mind Reader: [B]Breloom, Politoed, Poliwrath[/B], Roserade
    Draco Meteor: Dragonite, Kingdra
    Aura Sphere: [B]Togekiss[/B]
    Air Slash: Masquerain, Pelipper, [B]Togekiss[/B]
    
    [B]Legal combinations:[/B]
    
    Air Slash + Aura Sphere (Togekiss)
    Draco Meteor (Dragonite, Kingdra)
    Crunch + Fake Tears + Fire Fang + Poison Fang (Mawile)
    Crunch + Ice Shard (Glalie)
    Crunch + Screech (Feraligatr, Huntail)
    Fake Tears + Mind Reader (Breloom)
    Fake Tears + Refresh + Perish Song (Azumarill)
    Ice Shard + Refresh + Perish Song (Lapras, Dewgong)
    Mind Reader + Refresh (Breloom, Poliwrath)
    Mind Reader + Perish Song (Politoed)
    Refresh + Screech (Golduck)
    


    TMs (open)
    Code:
    [B]TMs:[/B]
    
    [B]TM02: Dragon Claw[/B]
    TM03: Water Pulse
    [B]TM06: Toxic[/B]
    TM07: Hail
    [B]TM10: Hidden Power[/B]
    TM15: Hyper Beam
    TM17: Protect
    TM18: Rain Dance
    [B]TM20: Safeguard[/B]
    TM21: Frustration
    TM23: Iron Tail
    [B]TM24: Thunderbolt
    TM25: Thunder
    TM26: Earthquake[/B]
    TM27: Return
    [B]TM29: Psychic
    TM31: Brick Break[/B]
    TM32: Double Team
    TM34: Shock Wave
    TM39: Rock Tomb
    TM40: Aerial Ace
    [B]TM41: Torment[/B]
    TM42: Façade
    TM43: Secret Power
    [B]TM44: Rest[/B]
    TM45: Attract
    TM46: Thief
    TM48: Skill Swap
    TM49: Snatch
    [B]TM50: Overheat[/B]
    TM54: False Swipe
    [B]TM55: Brine
    TM56: Fling[/B]
    TM58: Endure
    [B]TM59: Dragon Pulse
    TM65: Shadow Claw
    TM66: Payback
    TM67: Recycle[/B]
    TM68: Giga Impact
    TM70: Flash
    [B]TM72: Avalanche
    TM73: Thunder Wave[/B]
    TM77: Psyche Up
    TM78: Captivate
    [B]TM79: Dark Pulse
    TM80: Rock Slide
    TM81: X-Scissor[/B]
    TM82: Sleep Talk
    [B]TM83: Natural Gift[/B]
    TM87: Swagger
    TM90: Substitute
    TM91: Flash Cannon
    HM01: Cut
    [B]HM03: Surf[/B]
    HM04: Strength
    HM06: Rock Smash
    [B]HM07: Waterfall[/B]


    Tutors (open)
    Code:
    [B]Tutors:[/B]
    Fury Cutter
    [B]Ice Punch
    Icy Wind[/B]
    Knock Off
    [B]Sucker Punch
    Thunderpunch
    Vacuum Wave
    Zen Headbutt[/B]
    Helping Hand
    Last Resort
    [B]Magnet Rise[/B]
    Snore
    Swift
    [B]Ancientpower
    Aqua Tail
    Earth Power[/B]
    Iron Head
    Mud Slap
    [B]Outrage
    Signal Beam
    Superpower[/B]
    Twister
    Worry Seed
    Magic Coat
    Role Play
    [B]Low Kick[/B]
    Bug Bite


    Features:
    No Ice Beam or Blizzard (open)


    I'll come out and say this quickly, the most defining element of my movepool submission is no Ice Beam or Blizzard. The movepool does contain Ice Shard, Icy Wind, Ice Punch, and Avalanche for Ice moves, and you could run Hidden Power Ice. In their place is every Dragon TM, and Draco Meteor as a loner breeding move. Outrage is also included. Essentially if you want to use Ice Moves, you'll either need to use physical attacks or forgo other powerful moves like Perish Song and Aura Sphere.

    My reasoning is that I did not want there to be a "standard" Krilowatt set. Surf/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Filler has been shown to be a viable standard set time and time again, even in variants that use HP Electric over Thunderbolt. While it is possible to use HP Ice in the same manner, it's lack of power on opponents not named Salamence, Flygon, Dragonite, and Gliscor is notable. While this combination is possible on the physical spectrum, it's effectiveness is hampered because the Flying types all have speed-boosting moves and Roost to dampen Ice Punch's power, and are generally more physically defensive.

    Essentially I want every Krilowatt set to approach each battle differently. Without a 3-move combo that covers 7 types (Dragon, Fire, Flying, Grass, Ground, Rock, Water) for super-effective damage and 17 for neutral damage, when you are building your team you will have to decide what the greatest threats are and build your moveset accordingly. In absence of Ice Beam/Blizzard I tried to expand the movepool as much as possible to account for many specific threats.


    No Counter or Mirror Coat (open)
    I considered Counter and Mirror Coat, but both are absent. With the exception of Counter Blissey and Snorlax, no Pokemon in OU has a higher Base HP to utilize with these moves. If Krilowatt were given Mirror Coat, it would have 50 Base HP (100 HP actual) more than the next highest HP user (Gastrodon at 111 Base). I deemed these moves capable of covering too much, especially considering the predictability of the moves that might OHKO Krilowatt before it can successfully use one of these moves. Consider the fact that with no HP investment, if Krilowatt loses 40% of its HP (177/443), it can OHKO Max HP Forretress with Counter (354 HP). Meaning that a Trace Krilowatt can switch into Stealth Rock, KO Forretress twice over, and still have some HP left to use Rest and attempt it again. In short there is nothing particularly gimmicky about either of these moves, especially in combination.


    Other Notable Disallowed Moves (open)
    Other Notable Disallowed Moves:

    Aqua Ring was excluded because it works too well in conjunction with Magic Guard and Leftovers. The ability to recover 12% in any weather with effective immunity to all HP sapping statuses gives Krilowatt too much longevity. As impractical as it might be, a set with Aqua Ring, Protect, and Substitute is basically guaranteed to be able to stall out any combination of the moves that threaten Krilowatt. Earthquake has 16 PP and Leaf Storm has 8. If Grass Knot has a low power, then then only other threatening moves will be the occasional Earth Power and Energy Ball.

    Fire Punch is absent, replaced with Fire Fang which requires a breeding chain that separates it from other competitive moves. I wanted to avoid easy access to cost-free Fire moves, and additionally Fire Fang's flinch chance makes it a superior option for taking down Jirachi. It's unfortunate it has 65 Base Power and thus can't be used after a swiped Technician from Scizor, but there was no effective way of getting Flame Wheel on the movepool. Krilowatt does have easy access to Overheat, which also works in conjunction with Heart Swap.

    Power Swap and Guard Swap were not included as they are largely redundant with Heart Swap, doing the job of both with one moveslot. According to the Guide my movepool is pretty much maxed out in every area, and there is no additional room that doesn't sacrifice where I want the flavor to go.

    With the exception of the aforementioned moves, the entirety of Krilowatt's competitive allowed movepool is available for use, as well as a few fun freebies.


    General Traits (open)


    STAB Moves:
    Water Pulse, Brine, Surf, Aqua Jet, Waterfall, Aqua Tail, Crabhammer
    Discharge, Thunderbolt, Thunder, Zap Cannon, Thunderpunch

    Otherwise you have a wide range of options on both the physical and special spectrum. Rock Blast is available on any set for countering SubRoost Zapdos, and you also have Rock Slide and Rock Tomb at your disposal. There are actually numerous moves with a flinch chance in Krilowatt's movepool, allowing it to capitalize on switching into Jirachi.

    This movepool also has copious amounts of priority, with Aqua Jet, Ice Shard (Breed), Vacuum Wave, and Sucker Punch at its disposal.

    Coverage moves:
    Code:
    [B]**Thriftilly Stolen from Rising Dusk**[/B]
    Eliminating Steel, Poison, and Normal for being generally poor attacking types
    and then eliminating Ghost for its largely redundant coverage with Dark, the 
    following 13 types are being considered.
    
    Breeding groups are exclusive to other groups.
    (Br1): Breeding Group 1 (Fire Fang, Crunch)
    (Br2): Breeding Group 2 (Draco Meteor)
    (Br3): Breeding Group 3 (Air Slash, Aura Sphere)
    
                    Special           Physical         
                    ------------      ------------
    Fire:           Overheat          Fire Fang (Br1), Natural Gift (Watmel [80])
    Water:          Surf              Waterfall, Aqua Tail, Crabhammer
    Electric:       Thunderbolt       Thunderpunch
    Grass:          HPGrass           Natural Gift (Liechi [80], Pinap [70])
    Bug:            Signal Beam       X-Scissor
    Rock:           Ancientpower      Rock Blast, Rock Slide
    Ice:            HPIce             Ice Punch
    Ground:         Earth Power       Earthquake
    Dragon:         DP, DM (Br2)      Outrage, Dragon Claw
    Dark:           Dark Pulse        Crunch (Br1), Shadow Claw, Payback
    Psychic:        Psychic           Zen Headbutt
    Fighting:       Aura Sphere (Br3) Low Kick, Superpower
    Flying:         Air Slash (Br3)   Aerial Ace
    
    **The moves shown above are not the only available options for each type
    and physical/special combination. See above lists for more details.


    Support Moves (open)
    Support:

    Saving the best for last, this movepool has many neat tricks.

    Heart Swap, Perish Song, Haze, Torment, Disable, and Imprison: These moves are all on in mind to stop stat-up sweepers from going on a rampage by removing one of their key attacks, stealing or removing stat boosts, or otherwise compromising their strategy in order to force a switch.

    Worry Seed acts as a Disable for Rest, and additionally causes Poison Heal, Magic Guard, and immunity abilities to lose their effect.

    Me First provides an interesting answer to Dragons before their speed boosts, and deals with Rotom-A handily as well if it tries Shadow Ball. Copycat has similar applications but can also deal with support moves.

    Magnet Rise can be used against offensive threats with Earthquake to prevent them from hitting Krilowatt with it.

    Screech and Fake Tears can open holes in the opponents defenses and helps especially to break through Bulk up and Calm Mind, respectively. The advantage of either move over Heart Swap is that they will be useful on non-stat boosting opponents as well.

    Otherwise you have a panoply of random effects, from Safeguard to block status effects and Refresh to restore bad status on Trace Krilowatt, to Magic Coat to bounce status back, and Role Play and Skill Swap to "re-apply" Trace. Poison Fang's 30% Toxic chance lets you inflict Toxic while Taunted in addition to breaking Focus Sash, if necessary. Charge provides a small boost to special defense and acts as a one turn +2 booster to your Electric attacks. Knock Off can remove an opponent's item. Recycle can be used to restore a Berry from Natural Gift, or if you need another Shuca Berry (or Lum, perhaps) ASAP. Recycle can also be used with Fling and a Flame Orb to inflict burn, but is balanced by taking up two moveslots and an item slot.


    Flavor and For Fun (open)
    Flavor and For Fun:

    The general flavor of the movepool is that Krilowatt is a psionic shrimp that can use its antennae as a kind of dowsing rod, as well as "Jacob's Ladder". So in addition to Electric and Water moves, Krilowatt also has some latent psychic abilities that manifest themselves mostly in support roles. Vicegrip, Bubblebeam, Crabhammer, and Guillotine are all associated with crustacean-esque Pokemon. Otherwise its your standard power-progression movepool ending in the big gimmicky attack. What I want it to do is show Krillowatt as a versatile Pokemon with a core of unique abilities.

    Mind Reader and Zap Cannon is a fun combination if you don't plan on running into Machamp. Mind Reader + Guillotine will be even more fun when the inevitable OHKO Suspect Test is on :D.
  6. Jibaku

    Jibaku Balance is a fool's master
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2005
    Messages:
    6,271
    Not yet a final submission. There may be lots of edits to make, but I'll settle with this for now
    APPROVED BY THE MIGHTY BEEJ FOR FINAL SUBMISSION

    ...and IS THE FINAL SUBMISSION

    Level Up Moves:
    Show Hide
    H Night Slash
    H Sand Tomb
    – Bubble
    – Charge
    10. Spark
    12. Detect
    15. Copycat
    19. Aqua Jet
    24. Discharge
    30. Imprison
    37. Confuse Ray
    43. Haze
    48. Guillotine
    52. Perish Song
    55. Heart Swap
    57. Zap Cannon

    Notable moves: Aqua Jet, Discharge, Imprison, Perish Song, Heart Swap, Haze

    There isn’t much to explain here. I gave the level up a “normal curve” kind of pattern simply to match the Shrimp’s body. Imprison doesn’t make sense flavor wise, but it does follow the concept well, and may even have a bit of singles competitive significance. However, it has a use in doubles as it is the only thing besides Azelf and Smeargle that can Imprison Detect.

    Aqua Jet: I am quite confused as to how people equate priority = anti lead. Chances are, higher level players won't fall for this and will easily switch to someone that can take the incoming priority attack as well as threaten Krilowatt before it threatens them back. That said, I'm leaving Aqua Jet here due to the fact that it does have some utility. It probably won't get anywhere as useful as Giratina-O's Shadow Sneak (which was dismissed for quite some time), but the option remains.

    Discharge: cap10 isn't particularly powerful, but it is quite sturdy. Several people may prefer the chance of paralysis over the 95 base power of Thunderbolt

    Perish Song: This is essentially CAP10's phazing move, which is useful for forcing Pokemon such as Calm Mind Suicune to switch out. It can also aid stall in dealing with several last-Pokemon threats as they can't be phazed normally. Finally, it aids in removing Baton Pass teams =).

    Heart Swap: Draco Meteor and Overheat are the only things that Krilo has that lowers its stats. I would like to note that the Pokemon that do switch into Krilowatt don't mind about a -2 at all, barring Celebi (and really, use X-Scissor or Signal Beam if you're deathly afraid). Swampert, Blissey, and Snorlax don't fear Heart Swap and Latias is faster and can throw a Draco Meteor before the HS, resulting in Krilowatt wasting a turn if it attempts to do it.

    Haze - a faster, yet arguably less punishing form of dealing with stat uppers than Perish Song or Heart Swap (Heart Swap sometimes doesn't work if the opponent only nets a few stat boosts, since the stolen boosts may not be enough to turn Krilowatt to enough of a threat to prevent them from stating up again).



    TM/HM
    Show Hide
    TM02 - Dragon Claw
    TM03 - Water Pulse
    TM06 - Toxic
    TM07 - Hail
    TM10 - Hidden Power
    TM13 - Ice Beam
    TM14 - Blizzard
    TM15 - Hyper Beam
    TM17 - Protect
    TM18 - Rain Dance
    TM20 - Safeguard
    TM21 - Frustration
    TM23 - Iron Tail
    TM24 - Thunderbolt
    TM25 - Thunder
    TM26 - Earthquake
    TM27 - Return
    TM28 - Dig
    TM29 – Psychic
    TM31 – Brick Break
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM34 - Shock Wave
    TM40 - Aerial Ace
    TM41 - Torment
    TM42 - Facade
    TM43 - Secret Power
    TM44 - Rest
    TM45 - Attract
    TM46 - Thief
    TM49 - Snatch
    TM50 - Overheat
    TM54 - False Swipe
    TM55 - Brine
    TM56 - Fling
    TM58 - Endure
    TM66 - Payback
    TM67 - Recycle
    TM68 - Giga Impact
    TM70 - Flash
    TM72 - Avalanche
    TM73 - Thunder Wave
    TM77 - Psych Up
    TM78 – Captivate
    TM79 – Dark Pulse
    TM81 – X-Scissor
    TM82 - Sleep Talk
    TM83 - Natural Gift
    TM87 - Swagger
    TM88 - Pluck
    TM90 - Substitute
    TM91 - Flash Cannon
    HM01 - Cut
    HM03 - Surf
    HM05 - Whirlpool
    HM06 - Rock Smash
    HM07 - Waterfall
    HM08 - Rock Climb


    Notable moves: Dragon Claw, Toxic, Hidden Power, Ice Beam, Blizzard, Rain Dance, Thunderbolt, Thunder, Earthquake, Psychic, Overheat, Payback, Avalanche, Thunder Wave, Psych Up, Dark Pulse, X-Scissor, Surf, Waterfall.

    Dragon Claw offers Krilowatt the strongest physical attack against Kingdra (and simulatenously hitting Latias for a decent amount of damage) without the risk of locking into Outrage (which, coming from 84 base Attack, unSTABed, is pretty weak)

    Ice Beam I believe is a necessity, but I won't explain when this post does enough: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2587002&postcount=134

    Overheat allows cap10 to effectively counter Metagross, Lucario, and SD Scizor, as well as OHKOing Forretress and denting Celebi. Aside from those, however, Overheat's -2 Special Attack can be horribly punishing.

    I don't have Dragon Pulse as it learns a semi-safe move to deal with Kingdra already, in the form of Draco Meteor. While yes, it can Substitute in front of Draco Meteor, it's still more reliable for taking out Kingdra as Dragon Pulse doesn't OHKO it anyways. Since it has no use, AND makes little sense, there's no reason to put this move on CAP10.

    X-Scissor I can't see being remotely broken. It does hit Celebi a tad harder than Signal Beam as well as hurting Latias but I can't see where you'd fit this move in without sacrificing important coverage.




    Egg Stuff
    Show Hide
    Egg Groups:
    Water 1
    Fairy

    Moves
    Ice Shard - Lapras, Seel, Dewgong, Snorunt, Glalie, Froslass
    Mirror Coat – Corsola, Squirtle*, Wartortle*, Blastoise*
    Counter – Breloom, Squirtle (3), Wartortle (3), Blastoise (3)
    Mind Reader – Breloom, Poliwrath
    Draco Meteor – Dratini***, Dragonair***, Dragonite***, Kingdra***
    Sheer Cold – Lapras, Glalie
    Poison Fang - Mawile
    Flail - Feebas
    Follow Me - Clefairy, Clefable
    Metronome - Clefairy, Clefable
    Me First - Slowpoke*

    *Chain Breed
    (3) - 3rd gen move Tutor

    ***To get Draco Meteor on Krilowatt, one parent must be holding a Dragon Fang or a Dragon Scale (think about it like Light Ball being required for Volt Tackle breeding). However, in this case, the male parent must know Draco Meteor

    There isn’t a whole lot of stuff to explain here. For one, since OHKOes are banned I think it’s safe for me to suggest a Mind Reader + Guillotine combo (Mind Reader + Sheer Cold is illegal, btw).

    Ice Shard gives some incentive for a physical set due to its ability to strike down a Dragon Danced Salamence (not at full health, though).

    Counter + Mirror Coat can be obtained via breeding Mirror Coat to Squirtle in 3rd gen, teaching it Counter, transferring it over and then breeding with a Female Krilowatt.

    Draco Meteor is an egg move solely because the elderly woman only seeks for Dragons. I mean, she rejects Mew, and non Dragon Arceus. So what makes THIS any different?? Anyways, Draco Meteor is notable for being the only “competitive move” or so to speak, and is its strongest special attack against Kingdra and Latias

    Poison Fang allows it to badly poison opponents even when Taunted. Who knows when this may come in handy...?

    And come on, I’m sure you’ve all seen shrimps Flailing no? On the competitive side of things, while the thought of residual damage immunity can allow Krilowatt to get to 1 HP with Substitute easily, Flail is hardly threatening with 84 base Attack, unSTABed.

    Follow Me is simply one of the cutest moves in the game. In the murky depths of the ocean prey may be attracted to light, and this fits Krilowatt strikingly well. Competitively, it can also make Krilowatt an amazing supporter in doubles, but unfortunately it has no use in singles :(.

    Metronome makes this thing legal in metrobattles =)

    Me First is a fun move, albeit gimmicky. In the Uber metagame, you can catch a non Scarf Palkia / Mixed Giratina-O on their Spacial Rend / Draco Meteor and deliver a pseudoSTAB Spacial Rend / Draco Meteor back at them. In OU you can probably catch a Lucario Close Combatting or something, but you lose if it ESpeeds you. Or, you can use Me First to out-Earthquake Tyranitars and Metagrosses!



    Move Tutor:
    Show Hide
    AncientPower
    Bug Bite
    Fury Cutter
    ThunderPunch
    Fire Punch
    Ice Punch
    Bounce
    Dive
    Swift
    Aqua Tail
    Outrage
    Knock Off
    Sucker Punch
    Magnet Rise
    Earth Power
    Helping Hand
    Magic Coat
    Low Kick
    Signal Beam
    Icy Wind
    Gastro Acid
    Zen Headbutt
    Role Play

    Notable moves: Elemental Punches, Earth Power, Magnet Rise, Sucker Punch, Knock Off, Low Kick

    Rounds up Krilo’s coverage rather nicely, and also has flavor to boot. Bug Bite and Fury Cutter both describe its buglike appearance. Ancientpower makes perfect sense on a shrimp due to the age of the species. Despite the chance of raising all stats by +1, nobody will use it seriously due to its unreliability so there isn’t anything to worry about. Bounce because it makes as much sense as it getting Magnet Rise, which -may- have a use. Dive is really obvious lol, and Swift is…..well a ton of stuff can spit out stars. Gastro Acid is for some randomness, but it may have some competitive significance in doubles. Role Play is essentially a Trace-reactivator. Finally, Outrage is only there for the sake of Imprisoning, because chances are, you won’t use it given its base 84 Attack, no STAB, and a ton of other options.


    Conclusion:
    Is There Any? (open)
    In the end, the movepool seems like the generic Electric / Water and “mysterious shrimp” movepool, with a few more moves to better complement the Pokemon’s role as a utility counter (and also, minus Charge Beam). I guess there really isn’t much to say, but I will provide a list to demonstrate its offensive options:



    • Fire
      Physical: Fire Punch
      Special: Overheat

      Electric:
      Physical: Thunderpunch / Spark
      Special: Thunderbolt / Thunder

      Water:
      Physical: Waterfall / Aqua Tail / Aqua Jet
      Special: Surf

      Ice:
      Physical: Ice Punch, Avalanche, Ice Shard
      Special: Ice Beam

      Grass:
      Physical: Natural Gift [Grass]
      Special: Hidden Power [Grass]

      Bug:
      Physical: X-Scissor
      Special: Signal Beam

      Rock:
      Physical: Natural Gift [Rock]
      Special: Hidden Power [Rock], AncientPower

      Dragon:
      Physical: Dragon Claw, maybe Outrage
      Special: Draco Meteor

      Dark:
      Physical: Payback / Sucker Punch
      Special: Dark Pulse

      Psychic:
      Physical: Zen Headbutt
      Special: Psychic

      Fighting:
      Physical: Low Kick, Brick Break
      Special: Hidden Power [Fighting]

      Flying:
      Physical: Aerial Ace, Bounce
      Special: Hidden Power [Flying]


      Barring Grass (banned), Rock (which has an awfully redundant coverage with Electric), Flying (whose coverage isn’t worth noting, unless we use Brave Bird) and Fighting (to give incentive to run a physical based set as a lot of its coverage moves are higher powered on the special side), I ensured that there is some way to attack from both ends of the spectrum to maximize versatility so that it may be used as both a physical and special attacking utility counter without losing coverage (hey I want to stop both Machamp and Tyranitar at the same time! (obviously you sacrifice other coverage)). At the same time, I kept these moves at a reasonable level (so no Megahorn Krilowatt) so that we don’t have excessive coverage.

      Notable Allowed Moves that are booted out:
      Crabhammer: Sorry, its forearms don’t even resemble that of a crab’s. Yes, I realize it's a hammer but don't forget the CRAB in front of it, please. Besides, it has Waterfall and Aqua Tail already so you aren’t losing anything

      Aura Sphere: Earth Power, Earthquake and Low Kick are plenty. Aura Sphere is likely useless on Krilowatt and it doesn’t even go well in terms of flavor.

      Superpower: I ran calcs with Rising Duck during the offensive movepool vote, and Superpower essentially turned Krilowatt into a wallbreaker. With SR + Spikes down, sandstorm raging, Krilowatt can KO a Blissey switch in through Surf/Thunderbolt + Superpower. Low Kick should suffice as its Fighting-type move. Although Low Kick smashes Tyranitar and Snorlax without any sort of drawbacks, it's not as if Superpower doesn't hit them hard initially anyways, and that's really when it matters - being able to switch in and take the hit. Furthermore, Superpower doesn't help it counter anything significant, and only helps it break down Blissey.


    • Cool Stuff:
      Show Hide
      Mind Reader + Guillotine for noncompetitive/no OHKO clause use =)
      Detect + Protect + Imprison - Use in doubles to eliminate methods of protection against Explosion!
      Whirlpool + Perish Song = If you can live that long (or if you aren't using Grip Claw, Whirlpool staying long enough). Might be a fun tactic to try out sometime
      Swagger + Heart Swap = A way of getting +2 Attack, but is foiled by switching and two-attack syndrome. Might be fun to try though!



      EDIT: Response to Banryu
      Show Hide

      Certain non Dragons can learn Draco Meteor through some "magic method". Arceus involves type manipulation, Smeargle Sketches, Jirachi gets it from event. From that, the idea of getting Draco Meteor through Dragon Fang / Scale doesn't seem so odd, does it? Passing along dragon genes =)

      Guillotine - Yeah I agree flavor wise it seems to make little sense, but it is possible. Although all of the previous Guillotiners have Pincers or some sort, Krilowatt can still perform the move in the following way:
      1) Pinning the enemy down with one claw
      2) Beheading them with the other.

      or
      1) Holding the enemy with its legs
      2) Using its claws to slash their head apart, positioned in such a way that the two blades meet perfectly.

      or
      1) It creates an electric field that leaves the target vulnerable to execution

      or
      1) It actually has pincers, but you can't see them from the sprite

      or....whatever your mind leads you to believe

      The toughness of this task can also explain why the move has such a pitiful accuracy =_=. Also really, it can't be TOO different than Pinsir using the move!
      .....So as you see, Guillotine is perfectly reasonable!


      Notable differences from:
      Admiral Korski:
      Show Hide
      Draco Meteor, Copycat, Sucker Punch, Aqua Jet, Ice Shard, missing Fake Tears, and previously, Superpower

      Rising Dusk:
      Show Hide
      X-Scissor, Zen Headbutt, Copycat, missing Dragon Pulse, missing Rock Blast, as well as flavor stuff (Flail, Sheer Cold, Ancientpower, Bounce, missing Crabhammer, egg groups, etc).

      Funny though, that despite Duck's Krilowatt being in the Bug egg group it is less Buglike than mine in terms of moves

      Deck Knight:
      Show Hide
      Ice Beam, Blizzard, Counter, Mirror Coat, missing SUPERPOWER, missing Rock Blast, missing Aura Sphere, missing Air Slash, other flavor stuff (Follow Me, Sheer Cold, etc).

      EDIT: So now Deck's has Copycat too X_X.
  7. Staraptor Call

    Staraptor Call

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,422
    Of these movepools, Admiral_Korski's looks the best so far. It lacks priority so that Krilowatt can't be an anti-lead, but it also allows several gimmicky options such as Perish Trapping. Admiral_Korski's movepool also has the best flavor, which goes into the life cycle of a shrimp. The other movepools don't explain the flavor moves as much.
  8. petrie911

    petrie911

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    859
    The defining feature of this movepool is that Heart Swap is allowed, but not with Overheat or Superpower. Otherwise, it is a very inclusive movepool that should give Krillowatt the options it needs to serve as a utility counter, while still attempting to retain good flavor.

    Level Up (open)

    HS Power Swap
    HS Imprison
    --- Scratch
    --- Supersonic
    04 Aqua Jet
    07 Thunder Wave
    11 Mud Slap
    15 Spark
    19 Bubblebeam
    24 Charge
    29 Discharge
    35 Haze
    41 Aqua Tail
    48 Slash
    56 Thunder

    The level up pool has a few things I wanted to put in. Most of these could have gone in egg moves, except Power Swap and Imprison, neither of which is anywhere near the Water groups. I also like the Charge/Discharge combo.


    Egg/Event Moves (open)

    (Water 3/Fairy)

    Overheat (Granbull)
    Superpower (Crawdaunt, Armaldo, Granbull, Kabutops, Azumarill)
    Crunch (Granbull, Crawdaunt, Glalie)
    Crabhammer (Crawdaunt, Kingler)
    Perish Song (Wigglytuff*, Azumarill*)
    Ice Shard (Cloyster, Glalie)
    Refresh (Corsola, Cloyster**)
    Metal Claw (Crawdaunt*)
    Thundershock (Raichu)
    Splash (Jumpluff, Clefable*)

    *Gets by breeding **Gets by event

    Notable Legal Combinations

    Crunch+Crabhammer+Superpower+Metal Claw (Crawdaunt)
    Superpower+Perish Song (Azumarill)
    Rock Blast+Refresh (Corsola)
    Crunch+Ice Shard (Glalie)
    Ice Shard+Refresh (Cloyster)
    Overheat+Crunch+Superpower (Granbull)

    Event Moves

    Heart Swap

    Heart Swap is an event move, making it illegal with every egg move. Let's face it, this is the only way a unique move like Heart Swap is getting anywhere near this Pokemon. There's a lot of egg move illegalities, but none of them are too big of a deal.


    TM List (open)

    •TM02 - Dragon Claw
    •TM03 - Water Pulse
    •TM06 - Toxic
    •TM07 - Hail
    •TM10 - Hidden Power
    •TM13 - Ice Beam
    •TM14 - Blizzard
    •TM15 - Hyper Beam
    •TM17 - Protect
    •TM18 - Rain Dance
    •TM21 - Frustration
    •TM23 - Iron Tail
    •TM24 - Thunderbolt
    •TM25 - Thunder
    •TM26 - Earthquake
    •TM27 - Return
    •TM29 - Psychic
    •TM31 - Brick Break
    •TM32 - Double Team
    •TM34 - Shock Wave
    •TM39 - Rock Tomb
    •TM40 - Aerial Ace
    •TM41 - Torment
    •TM42 - Facade
    •TM43 - Secret Power
    •TM44 - Rest
    •TM45 - Attract
    •TM49 - Snatch
    •TM54 - False Swipe
    •TM55 - Brine
    •TM56 - Fling
    •TM58 - Endure
    •TM59 - Dragon Pulse
    •TM63 - Embargo
    •TM66 - Payback
    •TM67 - Recycle
    •TM68 - Giga Impact
    •TM70 - Flash
    •TM72 - Avalanche
    •TM73 - Thunder Wave
    •TM77 - Psych Up
    •TM78 - Captivate
    •TM80 - Rock Slide
    •TM82 - Sleep Talk
    •TM83 - Natural Gift
    •TM87 - Swagger
    •TM90 - Substitute
    •TM91 - Flash Cannon
    •HM01 - Cut
    •HM03 - Surf
    •HM05 - Whirlpool
    •HM06 - Rock Smash
    •HM07 - Waterfall

    I'm always a fan of little-used moves, so this guy has a lot of things like Embargo, Torment, Fling. Bug and Psychic moves are in, special Dark and Ghost are out.


    Tutor Moves (open)


    Dive
    Ice Punch
    Icy Wind
    Thunderpunch
    Zen Headbutt
    Magnet Rise
    Ancientpower
    Aqua Tail
    Earth Power
    Gastro Acid
    Mud Slap
    Signal Beam
    Magic Coat
    Role Play
    Headbutt

    Once again, most competitive things got thrown in. With the ability manipulation theme of trace, Role Play and Gastro Acid are in. I left out Fire Punch, Outrage, and Low Kick.


    Competitive Stuff (open)

    Probably the biggest thing here is that Overheat and Superpower are allowed, but both are illegal with Heart Swap. If you want to pass that -2 on to your opponent, you'll have to give up your ability to steal defense boosts. Heart Swap is in because it's a very interesting move, and could be very useful to Krill.

    Obviously, Overheat and Superpower are in. Overheat only comes in through Granbull, so you give up some options to use it. Superpower has a few more parents, so it's not overly limiting. Overheat+Superpower+Crunch is legal through Granbull, so the physical set can use Overheat if it wants.

    Superpower is in. This is probably controversial, but I feel that it is necessary. Superpower+Heart Swap is illegal, but you can still take on Curselax by running Perish Song. Low Kick is out for being highly unflavorful, while at the same time worse than Superpower. Brick Break is in for screen breaking.

    Crunch is in, giving Krill a good way to beat CM Latias. The defense drops are quite helpful, and it covers other Ghosts and Psychics, too.

    Signal Beam is in, as it's pretty much only for killing Celebi. And to be honest, you have Overheat and Ice Beam if you really, really need to do that. X-scissor is out, though. Celebi is a useful counter against the physical set, and you do have Crunch for it.

    Psychic moves are in, to help with the horrors that are Machamp and Breloom. Psychic's otherwise bad coverage makes it perfect for Krill.

    With a nasty Ground weakness and high speed, Magnet Rise is very useful to Krill for countering a number of Pokemon with powerful EQs.

    Perish Song is in. Krill can phaze with it, but also phazes itself when it does so, which seems reasonable.

    The priority moves Aqua Jet and Ice Shard are in. While they probably would only see much use on an anti-lead, it should be noted that anti-lead does fit the concept of utility counter: a set specialized to defeat leads, and do little else.

    As for notable moves not included...

    Fire Punch and Outrage are out because they're highly unflavorful just not that useful. Nothing uses unSTAB Outrage, and physical sets would probably be better off with Overheat to hit steels, anyways. As I realized later, Draco Meteor really isn't needed, and it is ridiculously unflavorful. Not to mention it's hard to get into the movepool, since Krill can't use the tutor. Aura Sphere is out. I just didn't feel it was necessary, and I had enough competitive Egg moves. Aqua Ring is out. I don't want Krill pulling a Stallrein. Magic Guard is a powerful ability, and we have to be careful with it.


    Fun Stuff (open)

    Krill has a lot of fun stuff to work with in this movepool.

    Embargo, Torment, Imprison, and Power Swap are all great for messing with the opponent. Imprison can be especially good with Krill's wide movepool. Afraid of your EQ weakness? Just put it on your movepool and Imprison it.

    Magic Coat lets Krill counter Status users with their own weapons. Also gives it a weapon against the dreaded Leech Seed.

    Snatch lets Krill heal itself if it predicts right, and may grab other boosts. It's a risk, but it can be well worth it. Psych Up lets you copy those boosts, making Krill very dangerous if it gets past the boosted opponent.

    Fling gives Krill a 1-time 100% burn on the opponent. Obviously one to use with Magic Guard.

    Role Play lets Krill use Trace again, while Gastro Acid lets Krill remove the benefits of an opponent's ability. Gives it an interesting way to deal with Bronzong, too.


    Flavor Notes (open)

    Crabhammer is included. Krill is a crustacean, and some of the sprites even have actual pincers. However, it's not exactly right for Krill, so it was put in Egg moves. In the level-up moves, Aqua Tail is Krill's best Water move, since nothing learns Surf by level up and Hydro Pump was disallowed.

    Aside from Overheat and Superpower, which are there for illegality reasons, Krill's egg moves are things that sort of make sense on it, but aren't really fitting for level-up. Splash is in there mostly for fun.

    I left out Shadow Ball, Shadow Claw, and Dark Pulse. Firstly, Crunch is much better than Shadow Claw, and I wanted to give Special Krill some things it doesn't cover. Most things weak to Dark/Ghost are better dealt with by Crunch anyways. Secondly, Krill is a glowing shrimp. Darkness-based moves don't really make sense. Similarly, Flash Cannon was put in, since Krill lights up.

    Krill is in the Water 3 egg group. All invertebrate sea creatures are in it, so it seems like Krill should be, too.

    As noted before, Krill does not get Fire Punch, or any Fire move that is not Overheat. Overheat makes sense, though, due to his Electric typing. Ever seen an electrolytic capacitor overheat? It's pretty nasty.
  9. Midou

    Midou

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    196
    @Rising_Dusk

    I just wanted to add that Shedinja is not in the Bug breeding group, but even this is irrelevant as it's a genderless pokemon and therefore cannot breed.
  10. QuimicVital

    QuimicVital

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2010
    Messages:
    184
    petrie911@

    What about Overheat+Heart Swap?
  11. petrie911

    petrie911

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    859
    Well, it seemed like there was more concern about DM+Heart Swap than Overheat+Heart Swap. Still, Overheat would be a perfectly good Egg Move. I'll consider this.

    EDIT: Superpower is another possible concern. Are we hugely concerned with that being allowed with Heart Swap?
  12. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    4,806
    Excellent catch; I hadn't noticed because I was paying attention to Ninjask and Nincada's egg groups and was trying to get Confuse Ray to be legal with it. Thanks for that.
  13. Banryu

    Banryu

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,740
    Hmm. Well I thought maybe I'd make my own movepool when the time came to do so, but after seeing these, I realize that both I don't have the experience necessary to do so, and also that there probably isn't any need for me too, since these are just fine.

    As of now I've only read the Admiral's, and I'm liking what I see, and I'll come back later to peruse the others and find one to get behind. Good work, all of you.

    One tiny, tiny side note; for those NOT putting Kril in the Water 3 egg group, I feel that that's where he most belongs. Practically all the crustaceous Pokemon are in that group and he probably should be too, huh? Just a thought.
  14. You're right, but it looks from the list like just about anything can go in Water 1, and Krilo gets better moves from there.

    Now on to my movepool:

    Level Up
    Show Hide
    - Bubble
    - Camouflage
    4. Disable
    7. Thundershock
    11. Aqua Jet
    16. Flash
    21. Spark
    25. Hidden Power
    30. Confuse Ray
    34. Signal Beam
    38. Aqua Ring
    44. Discharge
    49. Heart Swap
    52. Aura Sphere
    57. Aqua Tail
    61. Zap Cannon

    Notable moves:
    Aura Sphere for obvious reasons.
    Heart Swap and Aqua Ring open up all the new and interesting possibilites for these moves that have already been discussed.
    Zap Cannon can be combined with Mind Reader (egg move) for a gimmick set.
    Disable may also see some use as kind of a gimmicky move, for reasons similar to those that have raised some interest in Imprison among other submitters.
    Camouflage is flavor, and seems to have gotten a positive reaction in this thread.
    Aqua Jet gives STAB priority. We're all familiar with that concept by now.


    TM/HM
    Show Hide
    TM03 - Water Pulse
    TM06 - Toxic
    TM10 - Hidden Power
    TM13 - Ice Beam
    TM14 - Blizzard
    TM15 - Hyper Beam
    TM17 - Protect
    TM18 - Rain Dance
    TM20 - Safeguard
    TM21 - Frustration
    TM23 - Iron Tail
    TM24 - Thunderbolt
    TM25 - Thunder
    TM26 - Earthquake
    TM27 - Return
    TM28 - Dig
    TM29 - Psychic
    TM30 - Shadow Ball
    TM31 - Brick Break
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM34 - Shock Wave
    TM36 - Sludge Bomb
    TM40 - Aerial Ace
    TM41 - Torment
    TM42 - Facade
    TM43 - Secret Power
    TM44 - Rest
    TM45 - Attract
    TM46 - Thief
    TM48 - Skill Swap
    TM49 - Snatch
    TM50 - Overheat
    TM54 - False Swipe
    TM55 - Brine
    TM58 - Endure
    TM59 - Dragon Pulse
    TM65 - Shadow Claw
    TM66 - Payback
    TM67 - Recycle
    TM68 - Giga Impact
    TM70 - Flash
    TM72 - Avalanche
    TM73 - Thunder Wave
    TM74 - Gyro Ball
    TM77 - Psych Up
    TM78 - Captivate
    TM79 - Dark Pulse
    TM80 - Rock Slide
    TM81 - X-scissor
    TM82 - Sleep Talk
    TM83 - Natural Gift
    TM84 - Poison Jab
    TM90 - Substitute
    TM91 - Flash Cannon
    TM01 - Cut
    HM03 - Surf
    HM05 - Whirlpool
    HM06 - Rock Smash
    HM07 - Waterfall


    Tutors
    Show Hide
    Ancientpower
    Aqua Tail
    Dive
    Earth Power
    Endeavor
    Fire Punch
    Fury Cutter
    Helping Hand
    Ice Punch
    Icy Wind
    Knock Off
    Last Resort
    Magic Coat
    Mud-slap
    Rollout
    Signal Beam
    Snore
    Sucker Punch
    Superpower
    Swift
    Thunderpunch
    Vacuum Wave
    Zen Headbutt

    Looking back at some other submissions, I've noticed that they generally don't include Superpower. Two main reasons have been given: the ability to OHKO Blissey, which doesn't particularly bother me, and the possibility of combining it with Heart Swap to lower the opponent's stats. The latter issue is actually the reason I'm in favor of Superpower. I'm interested in seeing what will happen if this combo is allowed, and I have doubts about how viable it will actually be, since Superpower is a situational move and the combo eats half a moveset. Whatever you think of the possibilities raised by Superpower, the combo with Heart Swap has never been done before, and part of the purpose of CAP is to create new and interesting options. We call it playtesting for a reason.

    The Punches (Fire, Ice, Thunder and Sucker) are other notables moves that require no explanation. Don't worry about the absence of Outrage; it's an egg move.


    Egg (Water 1/Fairy)
    Show Hide
    Counter
    Extrasensory
    Faint Attack
    Fake Out
    Focus Energy
    Me First
    Metronome
    Mind Reader
    Outrage
    Splash
    Teeter Dance
    Water Sport

    Teeter Dance apparently comes from some event Pichu from Gen III. I checked Shoddy and Pikachu has the move, so as far as I know there's no reason Krilo can't get it. Of course it won't be used anyway, but if TD isn't a fun flavor move I don't know what is.

    The most notable competitive move is Outrage, which I decided to include after careful consideration to improve Krilowatt's chances againt Kingdra. Otherwise, the strength of this list IMO is the selection of flavor moves, including Metronome, Fake Out and Teeter Dance and, just for the hell of it, Splash, as well as creating the possibility of a gimmicky Mind Reader + Zap Cannon combo.

    Me First has now added. This is consistent with my goal of giving Krilowatt a variety of options that might be viable, but see little or no use in OU. Me First is an interesting "utility counter" counter move that is given to very few GameFreak pokemon and usable on fewer, but should be viable due to the weakness of some key threats (all Dragons, Gengar, Lucario, etc.) to their own STAB (plus you can maybe fire an Earth Power at Heatran or something).


    Like I said in a post on the next page, the goal here was to reach a balance between both competitive merit and flavor, instead of making the ridiculous claim that either of these "doesn't matter". This movepool is meant to appeal to voters who think the way I do: the best movepool is the one that offers the best competitive value without compromising too much flavor. This one gives Krilo the wide variety of moves it needs to fill its "utility counter" role while including a number of fun flavor moves, such as Camouflage, Metronome, Teeter Dance and Mind Reader+Zap Cannon. To explain the balance I'm trying to reach, I included Overheat in spite of my own flavor arguments because I recognize its competitive value, but left out moves like Draco Meteor that don't have enough competitive merit IMO to justify their effect on the flavor.

    My other goal has been to provide Krilowatt with a deep movepool, including plenty of both competitive options and interesting gimmicks. While others have placed some impressive limits on their submissions, I believe that neither Krilo nor its concept will be broken by a wide range of options, and am interested in seeing what effect relatively few restrictions might actually have during playtesting. For this reason, I have given Krilowatt moves like Disable and Me First that are never used in OU, but might have some potential on the right pokemon.

    What makes this movepool different from some of the others is my willingness to include certain controversial moves, such as Heart Swap, Superpower and Aqua Ring. This is based on my belief that the theorymon surrounding them can't necessarily be trusted, and they need to be playtested before any conclusions can be drawn. At the very least, they're almost guaranteed to make the playtesting more interesting. This movepool allows for fun and possibly viable combinations that have never been explored in OU before.

    Edit: Some commentary added to level up, tutor and egg lists, as well as the general comments directly above this sentence.

    Another Edit: Me First added to the egg moves. Credit to ZystraL, whose post on page 3 reminded me of a move I had overlooked. Am considering removing Outrage for flavor reasons since Me First allows us to use high-powered Dragon attacks against Kingdra anyway, but probably won't since this would fail to stop Substitute sets.
  15. hydrolphin

    hydrolphin

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2008
    Messages:
    317
    Level Up (open)

    Lv. 1 – Bubble
    Lv. 1 – Harden
    Lv. 6 – Thundershock
    Lv. 11 – Metronome
    Lv. 15 – Leech Life
    Lv. 19 – Crabhammer
    Lv. 22 – BubbleBeam
    Lv. 28 – Flash
    Lv. 34 – Twineedle
    Lv. 36 – Aura Sphere
    Lv. 43 – X-Scissor
    Lv. 50 – Imprison
    Lv. 56 – Discharge



    There are some cool moves here, but nothing Ground Breaking. Crabhammer is inferior to Waterfall and Aqua Tail and shouldn’t see much use. Imprison could be a cool, gimmicky move that locks down an entire moveset. Discharge is an alternate to T-Bolt/T-Wave. Aura Sphere gives Krilowatt a reliable special move to hit steels, but fails against Kitsunoh, and is also not very useful against Neutral steels. Again, nothing outright awesome, but some solid moves.

    TMs and HMs (open)

    TM Moves:
    TM02 – Dragon Claw
    TM03 – Water Pulse
    TM06 – Toxic
    TM07 – Hail
    TM09 – Bullet Seed
    TM10 – Hidden Power
    TM13 – Ice Beam
    TM14 – Blizzard
    TM15 – Hyper Beam
    TM17 – Protect
    TM18 – Rain Dance
    TM21 – Frustration
    TM24 – Thunderbolt
    TM25 – Thunder
    TM27 – Return
    TM31 – Brick Break
    TM32 – Double Team
    TM34 – Shock Wave
    TM40 – Aerial Ace
    TM41 – Torment
    TM42 – Facade
    TM43 – Secret Power
    TM44 – Rest
    TM45 – Attract
    TM46 – Thief
    TM50 – Overheat
    TM54 – False Swipe
    TM55 – Brine
    TM58 – Endure
    TM59 - Dragon Pulse
    TM62 – Silver Wind
    TM65 – Shadow Claw
    TM66 - Payback
    TM67 – Recycle
    TM68 – Giga Impact
    TM70 – Flash
    TM73 – Thunder Wave
    TM78 – Captivate
    TM79 – Dark Pulse
    TM81 – X-scissor
    TM82 – Sleep Talk
    TM83 – Natural Gift
    TM84 – Poison Jab
    TM88 – Pluck
    TM90 – Substitute
    HM01 – Cut
    HM03 – Surf
    HM07 – Waterfall


    Move Tutor (open)

    Air Cutter
    Dive
    Fury Cutter
    Knock Off
    Sucker Punch
    ThunderPunch
    Helping Hand
    Iron Head
    Last Resort
    Magnet Rise
    Snore
    Swift
    Uproar
    Ancientpower
    Aqua Tail
    Bounce
    Gastro Acid
    Heat Wave
    Mud-slap
    Rollout
    Signal Beam
    Headbutt
    Bug Bite
    Superpower


    Nothing really amazing here. Knock Off is a decent move, but will probably never find space on Krilowatt. Sucker Punch is a solid move for picking off annoying stuff like Non-leading Azelf and Starmie. Thunderpunch is as good as it gets for physical electric. Magnet Rise is similar to Knock Off, being as there won’t be any room for it. Aqua Tail is generally inferior to Waterfall, but might see use for the extra power. Superpower is obviously an option on the physical set, and could help Krilowatt go mixed.

    Egg Moves (open)

    (Water 3)

    Body Slam – Crawdaunt
    Night Slash – Drapion, Kabutops, Crawdaunt
    Haze – Kingler, Tentacruel, Omastar
    Icicle Spear – Cloyster, Corsola
    Wring Out – Cradily, Tentacruel, Omastar, Kabutops
    Earthquake – Cradily, Armaldo, Corsola, Drapion
    Avalanche – Cloyster, Crawdaunt

    Legal Combinations
    Body Slam + Night Slash + Avalanche (Crawdaunt)
    Night Slash + Wring Out (Kabutops)
    Night Slash + Earthquake (Drapion)
    Haze + Wring Out (Tentacruel/Omastar)
    Icicle Spear + Avalanche (Cloyster)
    Icicle Spear + Earthquake (Corsola)
    Wring Out + Earthquake (Cradily)

    Illegal Combos
    Body Slam: Haze, Icicle Spear, Wring Out, Earthquake
    Night Slash: Haze, Icicle Spear, Wring Out, Avalanche
    Haze: Body Slam, Night Slash, Earthquake, Avalanche, Icicle Spear
    Icicle Spear: Wring Out, Haze, Night Slash, Body Slam
    Wring Out: Avalanche, Icicle Spear, Night Slash, Body Slam
    Earthquake: Body Slam, Haze, Avalanche
    Avalanche: Earthquake, Wring Out, Haze, Night Slash


    As you may have noticed, Earthquake and Avalanche were not in the level up movepool. They are, however, included here. By putting them as Egg Moves, a physical set cannot use both simultaneously. In order to get a Ground/Ice Combo you need to go mixed, which decreases either power or defenses. By denying the use of Ground/Ice on a biased set, I can prevent sets with too much coverage. I could have accomplished this without using Avalanche at all, but then I would be denying Krilowatt a good opportunity to go physical. Other than those two moves, Haze is a nice move for tripping up stat boosters.

    What missed the cut (open)

    So the most striking thing about my movepool, aside from the egg moves, is the lack of one of the big dragon moves (Outrage and Draco Meteor). I felt that DM was really unnecissary. Dragon Types aside from Kingdra are just as easily dealt with by Ice Moves, and DM would likely only see use to get some quick, nearly unresisted damage and not to kill Kingdra. Outrage I think is totally useless. If you want a Dragon move for coverage (though I can't see why) use Dragon Claw or Dragon Pulse. They won't make you steel bait, like Outrage.

    For proof, here are some calcs vs Sub DDKingdra for Dragon Claw and Dragon Pulse.

    Dragon Claw
    Neutral nature, no attack EVs:
    35.6% - 42.5%

    252 EVs:
    46.6% - 55.5%

    + Nature, 252 EVs:
    51.4% - 61%

    Dragon Pulse
    Neutral nature, no SpA EVs:
    39.7% - 47.3%

    252 EVs:
    52.1% - 61.6%

    + Nature, 252 EVs:
    57.5% - 67.8%

    This is without LO or Specs or anything. Dragon Pulse can solidly 2HKO, and Dragon Claw can still do enough damage to scare it out. But unlike Outrage or Draco Meteor, you don't become set up bait afterwords. If Kingdra was a threat large enough for me to actually devote a set to it (I don't see any reason to, as it is generally inferior to most other Dragons), Dragon Pulse would still be a perfectly viable move to use. So I don't see a need to include the two big Dragon moves on my set, when It already has viable moves.

    Heart Swap wasn't included as well. I honestly don't see the intrest in this move. It sounds kind of like Recycle to me. A move that has competetive merit, but is overly specific and not groundbreaking. Seeing as I couldn't find room, and found it not to be very competetive, I just left it out.

    Since it was mentioned, I think that a Guard/Power Swap set is to gimmicky to be worthwhile. At least Imprison has a cool niche. Those moves are terrible.


    Cool Flavor Moves (open)

    Metronome is a lulzy move. It is fun to mess around with for about five minutes, and then gets old.
    A general "flavor theme" I took with this movepool was adding Bug moves.
    Twineedle and Icicle Spear are extremely rare moves that both show their face here, just because they are so cool.
  16. SinisterSamurai

    SinisterSamurai

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    83
    I'm surprised that only one person mentioned Camouflage. Not only does Aragornbird's supporting material depict Krilowatt changing color, but the whole CAP10 process has had a(n unsuccessful) fetish with type change, from Multitype and Color Change to Transform.
  17. Shock Trooper

    Shock Trooper

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    83
    My biggest turn off for a lot of these movepools is the addition of Draco Meteor, which I really think is not a good idea for this CAP. That being said, I prefer Admiral Korski's movepool the most atm because of its lack of Draco Meteor, as well as the inclusion of Dark Pulse, which I really think will be useful if Krillowatt is used to counter ghosts on a team.
  18. Apocalypse B-C

    Apocalypse B-C

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2009
    Messages:
    99
    Much better at movepools of a non-competitive aspect, for games and such, but I'll take a crack at making one on the competitive level, I suppose. Here goes....

    Level-Up Moves (open)
    Code:
    --- [B]Counter[/B] (heart scale)
    --- [B]Mirror Coat[/B] (heart scale)
    --- [B]Aqua Jet[/B] (heart scale)
    Lv 1 - Bubble
    Lv 1 - Protect
    Lv 1 - [B]Thunder Wave[/B]
    Lv 7 - Thundershock
    Lv 13 - Flash
    Lv 19 - Whirlpool
    Lv 25 - Shock Wave
    Lv 31 - Bubblebeam
    Lv 37 - Psybeam
    Lv 43 - Charge
    Lv 49 - [B]Signal Beam[/B]
    Lv 55 - Discharge
    Lv 61 - [B]Aqua Ring[/B]
    Lv 67 - [B]Crabhammer[/B]
    Lv 73 - Zap Cannon


    TM's & HM's (open)
    Code:
    TM02 - [B]Dragon Claw[/B]
    TM03 - Water Pulse
    TM06 - Toxic
    TM07 - Hail
    TM10 - Hidden Power
    TM13 - [B]Ice Beam[/B]
    TM14 - Blizzard
    TM15 - Hyper Beam
    TM17 - Protect
    TM18 - Rain Dance
    TM21 - Frustration
    TM23 - Iron Tail
    TM24 - [B]Thunderbolt[/B]
    TM25 - Thunder
    TM26 - [B]Earthquake[/B]
    TM27 - Return
    TM30 - [B]Shadow Ball[/B]
    TM31 - Brick Break
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM34 - Shock Wave
    TM39 - Rock Tomb
    TM42 - Facade
    TM43 - Secret Power
    TM44 - Rest
    TM45 - Attract
    TM49 - [B]Snatch[/B]
    TM50 - [B]Overheat[/B]
    TM55 - Brine
    TM58 - Endure
    TM59 - [B]Dragon Pulse[/B]
    TM60 - Drain Punch
    TM62 - Silver Wind
    TM65 - [B]Shadow Claw[/B]
    TM68 - Giga Impact
    TM70 - Flash
    TM72 - [B]Avalanche[/B]
    TM73 - Thunder Wave
    TM78 - Captivate
    TM79 - [B]Dark Pulse[/B]
    TM81 - [B]X-Scissor[/B]
    TM82 - Sleep Talk
    TM83 - Natural Gift
    TM84 - Poison Jab
    TM90 - Substitute
    TM91 - Flash Cannon
    
    HM03 - [B]Surf[/B]
    HM04 - Strength
    HM05 - Whirlpool
    HM07 - [B]Waterfall[/B]
    


    Move Tutor moves (open)
    Code:
    Headbutt
    [B]Low Kick[/B]
    Mud-Slap
    Rollout
    [B]Aqua Tail[/B]
    [B]Signal Beam[/B]
    Twister
    [B]Superpower[/B]
    Bug Bite
    Fury Cutter
    Dive
    [B]Knock Off[/B]
    Air Cutter
    Icy Wind
    [B]Fire Punch
    Ice Punch
    Thunderpunch[/B]
    [B]Magic Coat[/B]
    Snore
    [B]Magnet Rise[/B]
    Swift


    Egg Moves (open)
    Code:
    [I]Egg Groups: Bug/Water 1[/I]
    
    Twineedle (Beedrill)
    Supersonic (Venomoth)
    [B]Payback[/B] (Forretress)
    Guillotine (Gliscor)
    [B]Confuse Ray[/B] (Volbeat)
    Camouflage (Mothim)
    [B]Perish Song[/B] (Kricketune)
    [B]Rock Blast[/B] (Octillery)
    Ice Ball (Walrein)
    Dragon Rage (Kingdra)
    
    Compatible moves:
    
    Twineedle + Payback
    Supersonic + Dragon Rage
    Supersonic + Payback
    Confuse Ray + Payback
    Perish Song + Payback


    ....like I said, competitive movepools aren't my strong suit. But I think I did as well as I could, and I'm satisfied with it.
  19. smallvizier

    smallvizier

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    Messages:
    154
    Admiral Korski has done by far the best job of selling his moveset. Many of the others have competitive merit, like Rising Dusk's careful balancing of physical and special type coverage, or Hydrolphin's restriction of Ground/Ice combos. However you're surely not going to attract many votes next to the Admiral's excellent job of explaining what he's doing and why it's cool.

    Please, if you're submitting an amazing competitive moveset, use his submission as a benchmark for the amount of work you need to do to sell what you've made! It's got a bigger chance of being successful and, let's face it, it's much more fun to read as well.
  20. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    4,806
    I don't think it's fair or even reasonable to make the assertion that things like Draco Meteor and Outrage should be absent from movepools simply because Krilowatt is not a dragon. Look at the following:

    • Fact: Kingdra is an offensive threat
    • Fact: Krilowatt should be tailorable to beat specific offensive threats
    • Fact: Nothing Krilowatt can do that isn't Draco Meteor or Outrage can OHKO Kingdra and stop it (TWave is your best other chance, but God help you if it's using a Lum Berry or has Rest)
    • Conclusion: Krilowatt needs Draco Meteor and/or Outrage to realistically threaten Kingdra
    That's all that really matters here. The lack of Draco Meteor on movepools is perhaps a terribly crippling thing, and I pray that such movepools do not get selected by BEEJ to move on based on competitive merit alone. It's also excellent to note that Draco Meteor and Outrage let you cover the other dragons as well; a Dragon-Slayer Krilowatt should - and will be - a very important role for Krilowatt to take on.

    Did you also know that Jirachi gets Draco Meteor through an event? How about that Abomasnow and even Marowak and Snorlax get Outrage? I fail to see the flavor argument you're making about this, since quite frankly, according to the rest of Pokemon, you're simply not correct in making it.

    Furthermore, Crabhammer is quite possibly the single most-important flavor move for Krilowatt - not even considering its competitive merit (Which is significant). Crabs are crustaceans just like shrimp or crawdads (neither of which are actually crabs at all), and we all know that Crawdaunt has Crabhammer, so I see no reason why Krilowatt should not. Don't even get me started on the elemental punches, either, since quite frankly they're the absolute best we get for physical Ice-, Fire-, and Electric-type attacks. Without the punches, Physical sets become practically unusable. (No Electric-type STAB murders them and prevents them from ever beating anything Water-type, since they also lack Grass-type attacks) Flavor arguments should be entirely absent in their consideration because competitively "they're just that important."

    I beseech of you to consider these things before posting and trying to confuse future movepool submitters. These moves are both allowed and used on already-submitted movepools for very specific and important reasons.
  21. Banryu

    Banryu

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,740
    ....okay, this is what I'm thinking on these so far:

    Admiral Korski: so far, yours is still my favorite. smallvizier is right, you've done probably the best job of selling your moveset; the only problem I have with it, as I mentioned, is merely flavor purposes,that is, that I feel Krilowatt should definitely be in the Water 3 egg group, with or without the second egg group of Water 1 or Bug. Personally, I like Water 1 / Water 3 as the best egg group combination, so that it gets lots of egg moves from its crustaceous cousins, but also has access to Counter and Mirror Coat, which I am a personal fan of.

    Hydrolphin: I'm liking yours, and I think the idea of limiting Ice/Ground combos in the same spectrum is good, but I'm missing the inclusion of Outrage and Power Swap / Guard Swap. I'm okay with Heart Swap not being present, seeing as it's a signature/flavor/exclusive move of Manaphy, but I think that Power Swap and/or Guard Swap should be present somewhere in there to make up for that; and if nothing else, it becomes some more flavor. I like seeing Imprison in the levelup pool, but I'd rather see Power Swap in there if a tradeoff is necessary. Also, I highly recommend adding Outrage; Dusk makes a pretty compelling argument as to why it's practically necessary, and don't worry about the flavor oddness, since lots of weird things get Outrage. o___O

    Rising Dusk: To you and anyone else who put it, I like Imprison in the movepool. Imprison + Earthquake shows some potential for shutting down counters to it, as well as Imprison + Outrage for things like Kingdra. Verrrrry interesting. The single biggest thing that will keep me from voting for yours is Draco Meteor, for reasons that I list below. I'd much rather have just Outrage and skip DM. I'm fine with Superpower not being present as well, in case anyone else wants to notice that. I WOULD have liked to see X-Scissor, but that won't be a dealbreaker for me in the same way that Draco Meteor is.

    Deck Knight: Okay, both you and Dusk have put Guillotine and Crabhammer, which I'm sort of reluctant about due to Kril not having distinct pincers. I sort of disagree with a lot of the options in this movepool, such as the aforementioned Draco Meteor, as well as a couple weird things like Air Slash, which as far as I can tell from looking at its preexisting users requires wings or the Flying type to perform. :\ Probably the biggest problem I have with the set is that I feel it gets TOO many options. It has a pretty diverse attacking lineup on both spectrums, and I don't really feel that it should be so extensively so. The lack of Ice Beam in the special movepool, probably the only exception to this, is as puzzling to me now as it was when it was first brought up in that discussion thread. :/ Also, the lack Counter and Mirror Coat is sort of disappointing, but not a dealbreaker, I suppose... What I DO like about the movepool is inclusion of such moves as Imprision, the Mind Reader + Zap Cannon combo, and some other nice flavor, but honestly, I'm more likely to vote for a different movepool at this point. :0 Sorry.

    Jibaku: Don't argue against yourself (I'm looking at you, Imprison comments). xP Imprison is definitely okay flavor-wise (if you borrow Deck Knight's explanation of the whole 'Jacob's ladder' thing), and definitely has some potential competetive merit. TM movepool is pretty okay to me... Agh, but again I disagree with the egg group classification; I strongly feel that one of them should be Water 3. ;__; Oh well. Ugh, and there's Draco Meteor again. =___= (I don't really care how you justify it, I just don't like seeing that move in there [/opinionate].) I'm glad you at least see eye-to-eye with me about Crabhammer, but I again point out that Guillotine is basically in the same boat as it.

    TM30: Fine, but Water 3 ought to be ONE of the groups, that's what I think.
    I don't see too many reasons to pick this movepool over the previous two, although I do like the inclusion of Camoflauge as a flavor move, I just thought I'd point that out in case others want to borrow it.

    That's all I really have the patience to look over right now. =___= Of the ones I've seen, I'm favoring the suggested movepools of Admiral Korski and Hydrolphin. I'd also be willing to get behind Rising Dusk and Jibaku if some changes are made to their movepools.

    And now, my specialty... some flavor arguments.
    Hell, even Swampert and Primape get Outrage. o___O Flavor-wise, I would say that Outrage is an acceptable option here, but Draco Meteor is a big no-no. Only Dragon Pokemon are able to learn it from the tutor outside of the aforementioned event Jirachi, who is a special event/giveaway Pokemon, and a legendary at that. The only way I see exclusive/signature flavor moves from Legendaries being okay to put on others are in the case of other Legendaries getting them (IE, event Darkrai getting Spacial Rend and Roar of Time). This is mostly why I'm against Heart Swap and, though it's a different case, Draco Meteor.

    The reason that it should NOT get it is something you're overlooking-- Both crabs and crawdads (or in this case Kingler and Crawdaunt) have pincers, which is the appendage that they use to perform the attack. You yourself gave someone (Chaoscrippler, wasn't it?) a hard time about the 'correctness' of the shrimp HAVING pincers, which I think you and I both agree in looking at the art that it clearly does not. I say that since it has more like clawed, pointed forelimbs and it does NOT have pincers, it doesn't need, or even, should not get Crabhammer as a flavor move. The inclusion or disclusion of it won't keep me from voting for a movepool that has it in there, but I'm just saying that it's not necessary. Guillotine is in the same boat for me; all Pokemon who use it ALSO have pincers of some sort, which Kril lacks.

    I won't. I'm not happy about it, but I'm not arguing against it anymore.... part of me died inside for that, I hope you lot are happy. LOL.
  22. Mattman324

    Mattman324

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    968
    Also, Vespiquen cannot donate egg moves, due to it's forced gender.

    I have a movepool in the works, but a lot of the egg moves are unavalible with each other. Whatever. *shruggs*

    EDIT: Banru, you must be new to CAP. Welcome to the place which, in the name of being competitive, gives Volt Tackle to Cycholm!
  23. Mattman324

    Mattman324

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    968
    Well, he CAN run physical or mixed. And flavor shouldn't determine what we do.

    That being said, MOVESET TIEM!

    Level Up movepool:
    Code:
     
    Level 1: Aqua Jet.
    Level 4: Growl.
    Level 9: Thundershock.
    Level 16: Water Gun.
    Level 21: Shock Wave.
    Level 28: Thunder Wave.
    Level 35: Thunderpunch.
    Level 40: Ice Shard.
    Level 46: Aqua Tail.
    Level 54: Aura Sphere.
    Level 59: SIGNITURE MOVE.
     
    Aura Sphere, Ice Shard, the new move, and Aqua Jet are competitive, the other useful moves are TM or Tutor moves.
    
    TMs:
    Code:
     
    TM 01: Focus Punch (It is neither allowed or Dissalowed.)
    TM 02: Dragon Claw.
    TM 03: Water Pulse.
    TM 06: Toxic.
    TM 09: Bullet Seed (Hey, it isn't unheard of for a water type to get Bullet seed.  Mantine and the Remoraid line get it.
    TM 10: Hidden Power.
    TM 13: Ice Beam
    TM 14: Blizzard.
    TM 15: Hyper Beam.
    TM 17: Protect
    TM 18: Rain Dance.
    TM 20: Safeguard (Unless we're counting this with the Screens, of course.)
    TM 21: Frustration.
    TM 23: Iron Tail
    TM 24: Thunderbolt
    TM 25: Thunder.
    TM 26: Earthquake
    TM 27: Return.
    TM 28: Dig
    TM 29: Psychic.
    TM 31: Brick Break.
    TM 32: Double Team.
    TM 34: Shock Wave.
    TM 36: Sludge Bomb.  (Hey wait, this means you DON'T need Hidden Power to beat Celebi!  How could we have missed that?)
    TM 40: Aerial Ace
    TM 41: Torment.
    TM 42: Facade.
    TM 43: Secret Power.
    TM 44: Rest.
    TM 45: Attract.
    TM 46: Thief.
    TM 48: Skill Swap (Like you'd WANT to lose Magic guard...)
    TM 49: Snatch.
    TM 50: Overheat.
    TM 54: False Swipe
    TM 55: Brine.
    TM 56: Fling.
    TM 58: Endure.
    TM 59: Dragon Pulse.
    TM 60: Drain Punch.
    TM 63: Embargo.  (I can see this being used, since the foe not being able to use items can help.
    TM 64: EXPLOSION! (BOOOOOOOOOOOOM!  Exploading shrimp would taste yummy.)
    TM 65: Shadow Claw.
    TM 67: Recycle.
    TM 68: Giga Impact.
    TM 70: Flash.
    TM 72: Avalanche.
    TM 73: Thunder Wave.
    TM 74: Gyro Ball.
    TM 78: Captivate.
    TM 80: Rock Slide
    TM 82: Sleep Talk.
    TM 83: Natural Gift.
    TM 84: Poison Jab.
    TM 88: Pluck.
    TM 90: Substitute.
    TM 91: Flash Cannon.
    HM 01: Cut.
    HM 03: Surf.
    HM 04: Strength.
    HM 05 DPPt: Defog.
    HM 05 HgSs: Whirlpool.
    HM 06: Rock Smash.
    HM 07: Waterfall.
    HM 08: Rock Climb.  (Wow, he'd make a great HM slave!)
     
    Lot of viable stuff here.  Explosion is a risk to put up, but it's there.  Note that Celebi cannot be defeated without either low power moves (Like Pluck), Poison moves, or Ice moves(Or Overheat, I guesss...).  Guess which people will use?
    

    Tutors:
    Code:
     
    Headbutt.
    Gastro Acid.
    Low Kick.
    Mud Slap.
    Ancientpower.
    Aqua Tail.
    Iron Head.
    Seed Bomb.  (Same logic as Bullet seed, really.)
    Outrage.
    Superpower.
    Dive.
    Sucker Punch.
    Vaccume wave.
    Ice Punch.
    Thunderpunch.
    Zen Headbutt.
    Block.
    Snore.
    String Shot.
    Worry Seed.
    Magnet Rise.
    Swift.
    Last Resort.
    Role Play.
    Uproar.
    Well, it has to counter stuff, so it has a large movepool.  However, no DM is for a reason...
    
    EGG MOVES: Water 2/Bug
    Code:
     
    Silver Wind: (Lumineon, Butterfree, Beedril, Venomoth, Scizor, Ledian, Yanmega, Beutifly, Dustox, Masquerain, Ninjask, Volbeat, Illumise, Flygon, Krikitune, and Mothim.)
    Draco Meteor: (Flygon.)
    Sweet Kiss:  (Luvdisk and Lumineon)
    Thunder Fang (Gliscor)
    Fire Fang (Gliscor)
    Ice Fang (Gyarados, Gliscor)
    Fire Punch (Flygon)
    Earth Power:  (Flygon, Gliscor, Corsola, Whiscash and Relicanth.)
    Flail: (Gyarados, Seaking, Lanturn, Luvdisk, Quilfish, Whiscash, and Lumineon.)
     
    ALLOWED (WOMBO) COMBOS:
    Fire Fang + Ice Fang + Thunder Fang + Earth Power - Gliscor.  The fangs have no merit, really.
     
    Fire Punch + Draco Meteor + Silver Wind + Earth Power - Flygon.  A couple of these moves are nice to have together.
     
    Sweet Kiss or Flail + Silver Wind = Lumineon.
     
    Sweet Kiss + Flail = Luvdisk.  Actually, being allowed to have this removes the restriction immidiatly above.
     
    Earth Power + Flail = Whiscash.
     
    Ice Fang + Flail = Gyarados
     
    ...I think that's it.
    
    How does it look? I can still adjust things.

    EDIT: Considering how no one has commented on this, I'm just going to say Final Submission right now.
  24. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    For some reason, you feel that Crabhammer requires pincers**. I would find that as long as it has anything with which to bluntly hammer the opponent, it would be fine to learn Crabhammer on flavor. Just because it so happens that Crawdaunt and Kingler have pincers places no requirement on other things that can use the move. Also, about Guillotine, real life guillotines don't require two cutting blades, but rather only one.

    **To hell with what the Pokedex says about using a pincer as a hammer, it also says that Skarmory moves at 200mph on its base 70 Speed stat
    • Outrage locks you into the move for multiple turns
    • Krilowatt really can't afford to be getting set up on due to on by things like Skarmory and Forretress because it's locked into a non-STAB Outrage. (And then confused after)
    DM is far more useful at beating Kingdra than Outrage for this reason, as a misprediction isn't so costly to Krilowatt. (Resulting in either its death or a massive free setup) If anything, Outrage is the unnecessary move and Draco Meteor the useful one.

    I implore you to consider competitiveness before flavor for your votes on these movepools. Only after all competitiveness is met as needed can flavor be considered.
  25. Banryu

    Banryu

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,740
    Pokedex nothing, I'm basing this off of the observation that nothing aside from Kingler and Crawdaunt, two aquatic crustaceans with pincer claws, gets the move (unless you include Smeargle, who doesn't count). If it were based solely off of having something to 'hammer' the opponent with, why wouldn't Scizor and Gliscor (who have pincers) as well as any other Water-type, like Swampert (who gets Hammer Arm) also get it? Yes, I do think that you need to have pincers to know this move.

    As for Guillotine, I happen to think that this is a case of a misnomer, much like how Sucker Punch isn't literally a punch. Besides, have you SEEN the animation for Guillotine? (skip to about 1:53) Although having said that, I don't mind allowing this as much as Crabhammer, since I can see Kril just using both his forelimbs to form the 'guillotine' in question.



    All right, true enough. =.=' I guess I better stop my bitching about Draco Meteor, same as with the punches.... point taken.

    Although since Crabhammer and Guillotine ARE primarily flavor moves, my points as far as they're concerned still stand.
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