CaP 18 Pre-Evo - Part 5 - Move Pool Poll 1

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DHR-107

Robot from the Future
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Orange Islands
#1
Hey guys and welcome to the first Movepool Poll! We are gaining pace in our Prevo!

I am adding the original Volkraken Movepool to this post below so you guys can look at it to compare to the votes. Remember, there are currently no tutors in Gen 6, so this movepool is a little smaller than usual.

Volkraken:

0 - Constrict
0 - Flash
0 - Bite
0 - Leech Life
0 - Reflect
0 - Water Gun
4 - Reflect
9 - Water Gun
14 - Whirlpool
18 - Fire Spin
23 - Flame Burst
28 - Scald
32 - Destiny Bond
37 - Dive
42 - Power Gem
46 - Aqua Ring
51 - Heat Wave
56 - Hydro Pump
66 - Memento
(Water 1 / Water 2)

Aqua Jet
Assurance
Captivate
Scary Face
Tickle
Water Pulse
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM21 - Frustration
TM27 - Return
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM35 - Flamethrower
TM38 - Fire Blast
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM48 - Round
TM50 - Overheat
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Scald
TM56 - Fling
TM59 - Incinerate
TM60 - Quash
TM61 - Will-o-Wisp
TM66 - Payback
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
TM87 -Swagger
TM88 - Sleep Talk
TM89 - U-turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM100 - Confide
HM03 - Surf
HM05 - Waterfall


This poll will be run with PBV voting (a form of IRV), the details of which are outlined here. This means that you can vote for as many options as you like, and rank them by your preference. Be aware that order does matter in your votes! Make sure that you bold your votes and nothing else! A typical vote might look like the following:
Most Preferred
Second Most Preferred
Third Most Preferred


Any comments that the voter has would go below the votes in non-bold text. Bold text is used to determine what the user's votes are, so none of the supplementary text should be in bold.
The options and links to there posts are below:

V4LOVER - CaP 18 Pre-Evo - Part 5 - Move Pool Submissions - Evolves at Level 42
Final Submission

Evolves into Volkraken at level 42

0 - Constrict
0 - Flash
0 - Bite
0 - Leech Life
4 - Reflect
9 - Water Gun
14 - Whirlpool
18 - Fire Spin
22 - Flame Burst
28 - Scald
32 - Destiny Bond
37 - Dive
41 - Aqua Ring
47 - Heat Wave
51 - Hydro Pump

I'm basing this moveset mainly on Clauncher vs Clawitzer, which is a 6th gen water type (no transfer moves) with a similar-sized moveset. I removed any repeated moves at Lv1. As with other Pokemon, some unique non-STAB moves at the end of the final evolution's learnset are removed from the pre-evolution and and the levels for later-learned moves are dropped a bit in comparison. In this case Clawitzer's last level-up move shared with Clauncher (Muddy Water) is learned at levels 53 and 48 respectively - a 5 level difference, which I put here and adjusted levels accordingly. I figured the moves up to Dive could retain their basic level, and having removed Power Gem to make it a Volkraken-exclusive, I figured that would be the evolution point.

Egg Groups: Water 1 / Water 2

Aqua Jet
Assurance
Captivate
Scary Face
Tickle
Water Pulse

Obviously the same as Volkraken.

TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM17 - Protect
TM21 - Frustration
TM27 - Return
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM35 - Flamethrower
TM38 - Fire Blast
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM48 - Round
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Scald
TM56 - Fling
TM59 - Incinerate
TM61 - Will-o-Wisp
TM66 - Payback
TM70 - Flash
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Sleep Talk
TM89 - U-turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM100 - Confide
HM03 - Surf

The changes made here were to remove Sunny Day, Rain Dance, Torment, Quash, Overheat, Giga Impact, Hyper Beam, and Waterfall. I can't picture, especially from what I'm seeing in the Art submissions, such a little sea creature summoning rain or intense sunlight. Torment was removed since this pre-evolution is more of a cute one than sinister, and Quash because it isn't big enough to hold down/suppress the opponent. Overheat is too powerful for a pre-evolution without Fire as a main type. Giga Impact and Hyper Beam are a guaranteed removal since it's a pre-evolution. Waterfall I believe to take quite a bit of strength (it's climbing a damn waterfall), so that went as well. I kept Thief as something like Volkrakid would still be able to steal.
The Avalanches - CaP 18 Pre-Evo - Part 5 - Move Pool Submissions - Evolves at Level 42
Evolves at Level 42

My TM/HM selections are inside. Fucking hide tags.
0 - Constrict
0 - Bite
0 - Leech Life
4 - Reflect
9 - Water Gun
14 - Whirlpool
18 - Fire Spin
23 - Flame Burst
28 - Scald
32 - Destiny Bond
37 - Dive
46 - Aqua Ring
51 - Heat Wave
56 - Hydro Pump

My choice of level-up movepool really isn't all that different from Volkraken's. I took out all the repeated moves at first, but from what I've seen from the current art, I don't think our pre-evo will be learning Power Gem, but Volkraken will, as it evolves at the level which it would learn Power Gem - 42. I also don't think it is menacing enough to use Memento, either, but I am choosing to keep Destiny Bond, as it appears early in its level-up pool. I took out Flash, as I assume our curious yet unskilled squid hasn't developed bioluminescence yet.

TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM21 - Frustration
TM27 - Return
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM35 - Flamethrower
TM38 - Fire Blast
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM48 - Round
TM50 - Overheat
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Scald
TM59 - Incinerate
TM61 - Will-o-Wisp
TM66 - Payback
TM87 -Swagger
TM88 - Sleep Talk
TM89 - U-turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM100 - Confide
HM03 - Surf
HM05 - Waterfall

I've removed the following moves from the TM/HM set; Flash Cannon, Flash, Giga Impact, Quash, Hyper Beam, Thief, and Fling. My reasoning for moving Flash is in the Level-up explanation, and I believe from this, Flash Cannon should also be removed. I've taken out Hyper Beam and Giga Impact, because with only a few exceptions, no pre-evolutions learn them. I removed Quash, Thief, and Fling because I believe our little guy won't be mean or menacing, and therefore, Dark-type moves will not suit him.

Final Submission
frenzyplant - CaP 18 Pre-Evo - Part 5 - Move Pool Submissions - Evolves via Trade holding the Flame Orb
Final Submission

Evolution method: Trade while holding a Flame Orb

Trading with the Flame Orb is the method of evolution because I believe that Volkrakid would not be able to utilize fire and fire attacks as efficiently or as well as its evolution and would thus need help in mastering the art of fire usage; what better guide than a ball that's quite blatantly on fire? I didn't use the more traditionally fiery Fire Stone because Volkraken's level-up move pool does not fit with a Pokemon that used an evolutionary stone to evolve, as those Pokemon only learn a few moves spaced far apart (Bellossom, Shiftry) or learn them all at "level 0", the start (Aegislash, Ninetales).

Volkrakid's inexperience is also my reason for removing many of the more powerful Fire-type moves from the level-up and TM/HM pools, so that Volkrakid is only able to learn them after evolution. Instead of using fire as its main offensive element to deter predators, then, it would have to disorient them and distract them, by using parts of its anatomy (Scary Face, Flash) or hiding underwater (Dive), or hinder their movement with moves such as Constrict, Whirlpool, and Quash.

0 - Flash
0 - Constrict
3 - Leech Life
7 - Water Gun
11 - Bite
14 - Whirlpool
18 - Fire Spin
22 - Incinerate
25 - Scald
29 - Dive
33 - Reflect
36 - Aqua Ring
40 - Power Gem
44 - Flame Burst
47 - Destiny Bond
51 - Hydro Pump
55 - Heat Wave

Volkraken's level-up moves follow an obvious 4-5-5 pattern, so I changed it to the faster 3-4-4 for Volkrakid. I placed an emphasis on weak disruptive attacks, including Incinerate, which I moved from the TM/HM pool. Also, as I explained above in the reasoning for my method of evolution, I thought Volkrakid would have less expertise in using (and thus learn later or not at all) stronger Fire-type moves such as Flame Burst and Heat Wave and some support options such as Reflect, Destiny Bond and Memento.

Volkrakid's level-up moves end at 55, a level I thought was appropriate because of Tentacool, another Poke-cephalopod, whose level-up moves end at 54 - Tentacruel's level-up moves end at level 61, which is close to Volkraken's 66. Also, 55 completes a full cycle of 3-4-4. My purpose in creating this level-up pool was so that Volkrakid learns most moves earlier than its evolution, but must evolve to more easily learn more powerful Fire-type moves that it has not yet mastered.

Egg groups: Water 1 / Water 2

Aqua Jet
Assurance
Captivate
Scary Face
Tickle
Water Pulse

didn't change these for obvious reasons.

TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM21 - Frustration
TM27 - Return
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM48 - Round
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Scald
TM56 - Fling
TM59 - Incinerate
TM60 - Quash
TM66 - Payback
TM70 - Flash
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Sleep Talk
TM89 - U-turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM100 - Confide
HM05 - Waterfall

I first took out Hyper Beam and Giga Impact because no pre-evolutions that formerly didn't evolve get it, and can you imagine tiny squid shooting giant lasers of destruction or attacking with a hyper-assault of doom? yeah, I can't either. I eliminated Surf but not Waterfall, since while it might not be so strong (or large) to carry its Trainer, it can definitely climb waterfalls with jet propulsion, a favored technique of vampire squids. Finally, I removed Overheat, Flamethrower, Fire Blast, and Will-o-Wisp, complex or strong Fire-type attacks I didn't think Volkrakid would have the expertise to use and would have to evolve to learn. As precedent, Fletchling is an inexperienced-with-fire robin that does not learn Will-O-Wisp, while its evolutions Fletchinder and Talonflame do; likewise, Volkrakid is an inexperienced-with-fire squid that does not learn Will-O-Wisp, while its evolution Volkraken does.

The rest of the moves in the pool I thought had flavor merits (for example, I believe its bioluminescence would be well-developed enough to use Flash Cannon and Reflect, and its tentacles could certainly "Quash" an opponent) or are learned by all Pokemon that get HMs (Round, Confide).
Its_A_Random - CaP 18 Pre-Evo - Part 5 - Move Pool Submissions - Evolves at Level 32
I figured I might throw my hat into the ring this time!

Final Submission

0 - Constrict
0 - Bite
0 - Leech Life
4 - Reflect
9 - Water Gun
14 - Whirlpool
18 - Fire Spin
23 - Flame Burst
28 - Scald
32 - Dive
37 - Flamethrower
42 - Aqua Ring
46 - Heat Wave
51 - Hydro Pump

Omissions from Volkraken: Flash, Destiny Bond, Power Gem (Replaced by Flamethrower), Memento
(Water 1 / Water 2)

Aqua Jet
Assurance
Captivate
Scary Face
Tickle
Water Pulse
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM21 - Frustration
TM27 - Return
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM35 - Flamethrower
TM38 - Fire Blast
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM48 - Round
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Scald
TM59 - Incinerate
TM61 - Will-O-Wisp
TM66 - Payback
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Sleep Talk
TM89 - U-turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM100 - Confide
HM03 - Surf

Omissions from Volkraken: Hyper Beam, Torment, Overheat, Fling, Quash, Giga Impact, Flash, Flash Cannon, Waterfall


Evolution Method: Level-Up (Reach Level 32).

Justification: For the omissions, I removed Destiny Bond, Memento, Torment and Quash as I see this prevo being more of a playful Pokémon and not one to make very evil plays like taking out the foe with it, leaving an impression on the opponent or tormenting them mentally or the like. Furthermore it is looking like being a cute prevo and something with not enough weight to suppress things. Fling was removed based on the fact that Octillery cannot learn Fling, so I cannot see the prevo being able to fling items at will either unlike its evolved form. I removed Overheat, Hyper Beam and Giga Impact because these moves are too powerful for a little kid-like Pokémon. Overheat because Fire is not the prevo's primary type and Hyper Beam / Giga Impact since these are very powerful techniques and I just cannot see it. Waterfall was omitted as I cannot see the prevo being strong enough to scale waterfalls at all. Finally Power Gem and Flash Cannon were omitted. Despite the possibility of its design being able to incorporate such, I feel that these things are quite varied techniques of different techniques and I cannot see our prevo being developed enough to learn these techniques. Based on this, I omitted Flash as well since it made little sense to keep it and remove Flash Cannon, both of which represent light and illumination. I replaced Power Gem with Flamethrower on the level-up movepool following a little bit of precedent from Torchic, Numel and Chimchar where they can learn Flamethrower by Level-Up while their evolved forms cannot.

I was very iffy on U-turn but decided to keep it as I can definitely see a Pokémon like our prevo learning it even though it makes more or less sense depending on the final art for the prevo. But the idea of it swimming around the water then making a head-first charge before retreating makes sense to me and I can see it.

As for the evolution method, I picked Level 32 as the point of evolution, since Volkraken learns Destiny Bond at that level and it can also represent a transition from a very cute, playful creature to a dark, sinister creature that can learn all these powerful evil moves and become fully developed in its ways.
jas61292 - CaP 18 Pre-Evo - Part 5 - Move Pool Submissions - Evolves at Level 34
Final Submission

Evolution Method: Level 34

I went with this evolutionary method because it is fairly normal. The vast majority of Pokemon evolve from level up, and I saw no good reason to differ from that here. As for the specific level, I looked at typical evolutionary methods for Pokemon from gen 6. Most two stagers evolve in the mid 30s. While some are earlier or later, I don't see Volkraken as either an early game Pokemon or one that comes up extremely late, so a mid range evolution seemed appropriate. Also, for what its worth, while there are exceptions, generally evolution is the only thing to happen at a level, so I put it at one where it would not be learning any moves.
0 - Constrict
0 - Flash
0 - Bite
0 - Leech Life
4 - Reflect
9 - Water Gun
14 - Whirlpool
18 - Fire Spin
23 - Flame Burst
28 - Scald
32 - Destiny Bond
36 - Dive
39 - Power Gem
44 - Aqua Ring
48 - Heat Wave
51 - Hydro Pump
59 - Memento
When it came to level up moves, there was really nothing I saw here that gave me any reason to remove, especially not knowing the art yet. All of the moves make a lot of sense for the typing and species off which Volkraken was based, and none are really all that specific to fully evolved mons. So, as such, my only changes here were in levels after its evolution. Like most Pokemon that evolve by level, moves here are learned earlier by the prevo than the evolution. Volkraken had a pattern of 4-5-5 throughout, so after it evolved, I reduced the intervals to 4-3-5. The last move, like with Volkraken, doesn't follow the patter, instead being double one of the normal values, in this case 8 levels later. The last change was to remove repeated moves from the start, as those are usually only put there when the individual has heart scale moves, which a first stage typically does not.
(Water 1 / Water 2)

Aqua Jet
Assurance
Captivate
Scary Face
Tickle
Water Pulse
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM21 - Frustration
TM27 - Return
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM35 - Flamethrower
TM38 - Fire Blast
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM48 - Round
TM50 - Overheat
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Scald
TM56 - Fling
TM59 - Incinerate
TM61 - Will-o-Wisp
TM66 - Payback
TM70 - Flash
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Sleep Talk
TM89 - U-turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM100 - Confide
HM03 - Surf
HM05 - Waterfall
Very similarly to with level up, there was not much I saw here that needed to be removed, however, there were a couple, namely Hyper Beam, Giga Impact and Quash. Hyper Beam and Giga Impact are fairly obvious as with rare exception, unless you get them by level up, you don't get them until you are fully evolved. As they were not in the level up pool, there was no good reason to keep them. Quash on the other hand is a bit more obscure. However the only unevolved Pokemon that learn it are Dark types that get it via level up or Egg move, and our prevo does not fit either of those precedents. As for all the other moves, they are all typical moves for Pokemon of the typing or ones that are generally kept throughout evolutionary lines.
Phione - CaP 18 Pre-Evo - Part 5 - Move Pool Submissions - Evolves via Trade
Final Submission

Evolves when traded.
Justification: So, Volkakid was bred or caught by this nice trainer who takes it on many adventures. However, one day, the trainer just trades Volkrakid away for some other Pokémon like it's a slave or something. (IT IS.) Volkrakid realizes that it's a dispensable, replaceable object. This makes Volkrakid jealous and resentful. It looks up at its new trainer. It wonders what human blood tastes like.
*CUE EVOLUTION*
0 - Constrict
0 - Water Gun
0 - Bite
0 - Flash
4 - Constrict
9 - Water Gun
15 - Whirlpool
20 - Attract
24 - Scald
28 - Protect
35 - Flame Burst
39 - Reflect
42 - Dive
46 - Aqua Ring
51 - Fire Spin
54 - Hydro Pump

The order here was very concerned with flavor. You'll notice (hopefully) that I added Protect and Attract to the level-up movepool. This was because Volkrakid is a baby squid trying to defend itself from fearsome predators such as Sharpedo and hasn't learned powerful attacks yet, so has to defend itself with tactics like being cute. Attract was the closest I came to being cute, seeing as Volkraken would never have Baby-Doll Eyes in its movepool. At first, the moves are mainly water-based, as Volkrakid hasn't learned to manipulate steam yet. Later on, it learns moves such as Flame Burst. You may notice that Fire Spin has been moved to after Flame Burst. This is because Volkrakid must master making Aqua Rings before it uses fire. I also left vampire-ish moves like Leech Life out because Volkrakid is not evil yet.
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM21 - Frustration
TM27 - Return
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM35 - Flamethrower
TM38 - Fire Blast
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM48 - Round
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Scald
TM56 - Fling
TM59 - Incinerate
TM60 - Quash
TM61 - Will-o-Wisp
TM66 - Payback
TM70 - Flash
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Sleep Talk
TM89 - U-turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM100 - Confide
HM03 - Surf
HM05 - Waterfall

Barely any changes here. I removed Attract because Volkrakid doesn't need a disc to learn to be cute, Thief for the same reason that I eliminated Leech Life, and Overheat since Volkrakid isn't that powerful yet. Not too much to say here. I almost eliminated Payback, but I reckon that this squid can... pay people back? Giga Impact and Hyper Beam removed for obvious reasons.

Eggs are self explanatory.
So those names again:

V4LOVER
The Avalanches
frenzyplant
Its_A_Random
jas61292
Phione


Vote for as many as you like in order. Remember, its PBV. You have about 23 hours.

Our Prevo so far:

Typing: Water/Fire
Abilities: Anticipation / Infiltrator / Unnerve
Stats: 60 HP / 30 Atk / 50 Def / 80 SpA / 60 SpD / 70 Spe (BST: 350)
 
#2
frenzyplant
Phione

I am a man of ASB. These are the only two movepools that have Scald as a pre-level 26 move. Sue me. Again.

Also, I like frenzyplant's evolution method.
 
#6
frenzyplant
V4Lover
The Avalanches

I kinda like frenzyplant's unique evolution, so I put it first. If not that, then I would prefer level 42, as Volkraken seems like a late game pokemon. I put V4Lover second because I like Flash.
 
#10
V4LOVER
jas61292

I picked jas because he didn't modify much from Volkraken's aside from levels, while the others added odd moves that did not appear in Volkraken's pool (why?) or shifted the whole thing. That, and I like keeping Flash+Flash Cannon.
 
#23
jas and frenzyplant move on!

Code:
There have been 22 posts in the thread.

PREFERENTIAL BLOCK VOTING

FINAL RESULTS

1. jas
2. frenzyplant
3. phione, theavalanches
4. itsarandom, vlover

VOTING ROUNDS
----------------------------------------------
Array
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    [itsarandom] => 2
    [theavalanches] => 2
    [phione] => 3
    [frenzyplant] => 5
    [jas] => 8
)

Array
(
    [theavalanches] => 2
    [itsarandom] => 2
    [phione] => 3
    [frenzyplant] => 5
    [jas] => 9
)

Array
(
    [phione] => 3
    [frenzyplant] => 5
    [jas] => 10
)

Array
(
    [frenzyplant] => 6
    [jas] => 10
)

----------------------------------------------
Array
(
    [vlover] => 2
    [itsarandom] => 2
    [phione] => 3
    [theavalanches] => 4
    [frenzyplant] => 5
)

Array
(
    [phione] => 3
    [theavalanches] => 4
    [frenzyplant] => 6
)

Array
(
    [theavalanches] => 4
    [frenzyplant] => 7
)

----------------------------------------------
Array
(
    [itsarandom] => 3
    [vlover] => 3
    [theavalanches] => 4
    [phione] => 5
)

Array
(
    [phione] => 6
    [theavalanches] => 6
)

----------------------------------------------
Array
(
    [itsarandom] => 4
    [vlover] => 4
)
 
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