Onward and upward with movepools, as ever. We've completed the attacking moves segment of movepools, and the finalized version of it is present in the OP of that discussion thread. We still have one more discussion and poll that must take place before I start accepting movepool submissions for CAP 2, however. That discussion is for non-attacking moves (NAM), which for CAP 2 may be considerably more controversial than attacking moves. Lower in this thread I've listed all non-attacking moves that I consider competitive for CAP 2. Note that my list may not be exhaustive at first, and I encourage you to point out missing moves that you think may be relevant.
This discussion thread will likely extend well beyond 24 hours into the 48 and possibly 72 hour mark.
Things I move to "Need Discussion" are things I want discussed at any given point of time.
The movepool stage of a CAP is competitive, and thus NO flavor-based logic will be tolerated. For example, I do not care if CAP 2 doesn't have a horn or does, Horn Leech should be allowed or disallowed based on competitive merit only.
Below is the current list of non-attacking moves for discussion:
Required
Toxic
Protect / Detect
Rest
Allowed
All weather-starting moves
Calm Mind
Work Up
Toxic Spikes
Will-O-Wisp
GrassWhistle / Sing
Taunt
Yawn
Block / Mean Look / Spider Web
Perish Song
Mirror Coat
Light Screen
Reflect
Gravity
Trick Room
Haze
Clear Smog
Magnet Rise
Moonlight / Morning Sun / Synthesis
Ingrain
Refresh
Acid Spray
Knock Off
Magic Coat
Switcheroo / Trick
Substitute
Pain Split
Destiny Bond
Disallowed
All 60% or better accuracy Sleep-inflicting moves
All 50% instant recovery moves
All +2 and +1/+1 or better moves (except where specified)
(Block / Mean Look / Spider Web) + Perish Song
Leech Seed
Baton Pass
Encore
Thunder Wave
Glare
Counter
Healing Wish
Memento
Confuse Ray / Teeter Dance
Endeavor
Wish
Aromatherapy / Heal Bell
Circle Throw / Dragon Tail
Roar / Whirlwind
Rapid Spin
Spikes
Stealth Rock
Stun Spore
Disable
Controversial
Stun Spore
Destiny Bond
Pain Split
Need Discussion
-
Pending
-
CAP 2 thus far:
Name: Necturna
Typing: Grass / Ghost
Stats: 64 HP / 120 Atk / 100 Def / 85 SpA / 120 SpD / 81 Spe
Abilities: Forewarn / Telepathy (DW)
Primary Checks: Heatran, Jirachi, Skarmory, Hydreigon
Gender: Female
tl;dr: Quack! (Pika pi-pikaaaa!!)
- Refer to this on-site article for further description of the process that is not outlined here.
- The list of moves will be divided up into five (5) sections: Required, Allowed, Disallowed, Controversial, and Pending.
- Required moves are those that must be in every movepool submission for CAP 2.
- Allowed moves are those that are approved as being okay for CAP 2's movepool, and thus will be allowed in movepool submissions
- Disallowed moves are those that have been disapproved as being okay for CAP 2's movepool, and thus will not be allowed in movepool submissions
- Controversial moves are those that have been discussed, but which have not convinced the TL one way or the other on their validity. They are also moves that have a lot of good community arguments both way, and will go to a poll as to whether they will be allowed or not.
- Pending moves are moves that should be discussed eventually, but have not been yet and thus are otherwise unclassified.
- I've also included a "Need Discussion" section for moves that I want to draw attention to at any given time. This will be updated frequently, so check back frequently.
This discussion thread will likely extend well beyond 24 hours into the 48 and possibly 72 hour mark.
Things I move to "Need Discussion" are things I want discussed at any given point of time.
The movepool stage of a CAP is competitive, and thus NO flavor-based logic will be tolerated. For example, I do not care if CAP 2 doesn't have a horn or does, Horn Leech should be allowed or disallowed based on competitive merit only.
Below is the current list of non-attacking moves for discussion:
Required
Toxic
Protect / Detect
Rest
Allowed
All weather-starting moves
Calm Mind
Work Up
Toxic Spikes
Will-O-Wisp
GrassWhistle / Sing
Taunt
Yawn
Block / Mean Look / Spider Web
Perish Song
Mirror Coat
Light Screen
Reflect
Gravity
Trick Room
Haze
Clear Smog
Magnet Rise
Moonlight / Morning Sun / Synthesis
Ingrain
Refresh
Acid Spray
Knock Off
Magic Coat
Switcheroo / Trick
Substitute
Pain Split
Destiny Bond
Disallowed
All 60% or better accuracy Sleep-inflicting moves
All 50% instant recovery moves
All +2 and +1/+1 or better moves (except where specified)
(Block / Mean Look / Spider Web) + Perish Song
Leech Seed
Baton Pass
Encore
Thunder Wave
Glare
Counter
Healing Wish
Memento
Confuse Ray / Teeter Dance
Endeavor
Wish
Aromatherapy / Heal Bell
Circle Throw / Dragon Tail
Roar / Whirlwind
Rapid Spin
Spikes
Stealth Rock
Stun Spore
Disable
Controversial
Need Discussion
-
Pending
-
CAP 2 thus far:
Name: Necturna
Focus: Bulky OffenseConcept: Sketch Artist
Description: A Pokemon that learns Sketch, once, and everything that goes along with that.
Justification:
In terms of uniqueness, I think that few existing Pokemon can match DPP Smeargle, an otherwise laughably worthless Pokemon trolling OU with access to every trick in the book (or at least 4 of them) but also affecting the metagame greatly by becoming a top threat in the lead metagame. This Pokemon will borrow some of that uniqueness by learning the move Sketch and thus having access to ONE surprise/strategic/gutshot bonus move to supplement its pre-existing movepool. Being otherwise competently built (read: usable stats), this Poke could be a top threat or specialist for reasons we can't even predict yet.
Questions To Be Answered:
Explanation: The key here is that we have a lot of freedom to construct a unique Pokemon while staying within the confines of the concept. Typing, stats, abilities, and even most of the movepool are completely fair game so long as the Poke learns Sketch only once along the way and that we keep that in mind during previous steps. Now, this doesn't mean the CAP process will be directionless; Rising Dusk is pretty well organized and good at keeping discussions focused, and the concept itself has firm grounding in Smeargle's precedent. What's really being studied with this concept is movepool diversity and effectiveness, so it should have the most effect on the movepool process, where movepool creators will have to carefully balance their Sketchmon's actual movepool with the possibility of adding any one other move to the list. In terms of the metagame, there is no doubt in my mind that throwing a wildcard like this into the mix will strongly affect the metagame.
- How will a Poke that has access to any one move out of all the moves in the game affect common battling tactics, namely prediction, scouting, and switching?
- Which Sketch moves will become most common on this Poke's best sets? Does Sketchmon's success rely on hiding that secret Sketch move until just the right moment or can it succeed with predictably powerful moves like Spore, Spikes, Hurricane, Shell Smash, etc.?
- Does this unique and powerful access to moves need to be counterbalanced elsewhere in the Pokemon's design? If so, then to what degree?
- What kind of impact can Sketchmon have on teambuilding in terms of being able to patch holes with common utility moves like Rapid Spin or Toxic Spikes?
Typing: Grass / Ghost
Stats: 64 HP / 120 Atk / 100 Def / 85 SpA / 120 SpD / 81 Spe
Abilities: Forewarn / Telepathy (DW)
Primary Checks: Heatran, Jirachi, Skarmory, Hydreigon
Gender: Female
tl;dr: Quack! (Pika pi-pikaaaa!!)