CAP 13 CAP 2 - Part 9 - Attacking Moves Discussion

[Birkal]

Hmm. I am actually against physical Ice-type moves. Hydreigon is meant to be a reliable check; it would lose that role if CAP2 were given these moves. Let's take a look at the list:

Ice Fang
Ice Shard
Ice Punch
Icicle Spear
Icicle Crash


If one is running Life Orb Adamant 252 Shift Gear CAP2, then these become especially problematic for 0/0 Hydreigon. After one boost, Icicle Crash is a clean OHKO after Shift Gear, with Ice Punch following suit. Ice Fang is pretty darn close to a OHKO (96.6% minimum) as well. It only takes three hits from Icicle Spear to OHKO, which is usually quite probable.

That leaves Ice Shard: it only does 59.1% - 70.2% after the Shift Gear boost. However, one could simply choose not to boost on the Hydregion switch and use Ice Shard (39.4% - 46.8%), which has a good shot of 2HKOing after Stealth Rock. Not exactly what we want, in my opinion.

Furthermore, I feel like Ice-type moves in general make CAP2 a little too threatening to OU as a whole by making CAP2 even more versatile. While Gliscor, Dragonite, and Salamence could safely check some sets, adding an Ice-type move removes that possibility. Grass / Ice is already pretty darn good coverage (try out Abomasnow sometime, it's a blast). Being able to add a third element into that mix through Ghost STAB, Hidden Power Fighting, Fire, or Ground, alongside of Sketch makes for a Pokemon that's a bit to threatening for my tastes.

Just my two cents!

 

[Rising_Dusk]

As far as moves that 'abuse' weather, Solarbeam is the worst by a landslide. If you use Solarbeam as your STAB Grass-type move and the opponent switches in a Tyranitar, you're pretty much screwed. It's not like Thunder/Hurricane/Blizzard where it's at least usable in the wrong weather. Solarbeam is visibly worse in the wrong weather. Keep in mind that even Grass-types (Venusaur for instance) that have Chlorophyll to abuse sun do not actually use Solarbeam a majority of the time. That says something, especially considering how much better something like Venusaur is in sun.

 

[verbatim]

When talking about Ice Shard, we need to really be careful. Sure Shift Gear Ice Shard won't kill, but if you really wanted to counter Hydregion (and have utility afterwords) you could run a set consisting of Belly Drum (Sketch), Ice Shard, Move (possibly Horn leech), Other Move. With this, you'd be able to kill Hydregion/Horn Leech as they switch out of the Ice Shard to possibly get a full health +6 Pokemon with priority.

 

[Jaetheho]

Hmm. I am actually against physical Ice-type moves. Hydreigon is meant to be a reliable check; it would lose that role if CAP2 were given these moves. Let's take a look at the list:

Ice Fang
Ice Shard
Ice Punch
Icicle Spear
Icicle Crash


If one is running Life Orb Adamant 252 Shift Gear CAP2, then these become especially problematic for 0/0 Hydreigon. After one boost, Icicle Crash is a clean OHKO after Shift Gear, with Ice Punch following suit. Ice Fang is pretty darn close to a OHKO (96.6% minimum) as well. It only takes three hits from Icicle Spear to OHKO, which is usually quite probable.

That leaves Ice Shard: it only does 59.1% - 70.2% after the Shift Gear boost. However, one could simply choose not to boost on the Hydregion switch and use Ice Shard (39.4% - 46.8%), which has a good shot of 2HKOing after Stealth Rock. Not exactly what we want, in my opinion.

Furthermore, I feel like Ice-type moves in general make CAP2 a little too threatening to OU as a whole by making CAP2 even more versatile. While Gliscor, Dragonite, and Salamence could safely check some sets, adding an Ice-type move removes that possibility. Grass / Ice is already pretty darn good coverage (try out Abomasnow sometime, it's a blast). Being able to add a third element into that mix through Ghost STAB, Hidden Power Fighting, Fire, or Ground, alongside of Sketch makes for a Pokemon that's a bit to threatening for my tastes.

Just my two cents!

Hmm... I see what you are saying, and with you're logic, electric physical moves would be WORSE lol.

However I believe a +2 grass/ghost stab won't get him anywhere.

 

[canno]

Not saying that SolarBeam isn't crappy. I'm just saying that it should definitely not be allowed, as any type of weather preference is bad. It doesn't matter either way, since SolarBeam IS garbage in every sense of the word, but I'd rather see it banned.

 

[uwnim]

Solar Beam doesn't really have much use. Power Whip is going to be the better grass move pretty much all the time because of the base stats and not screwing you over if the weather changes.

CAP 2 does have Stone Edge which provides some coverage against Fire and Flying types. The biggest type problem is Steel and most moves suggested do nothing to help with that anyways.

 

[Birkal]

When talking about Ice Shard, we need to really be careful. Sure Shift Gear Ice Shard won't kill, but if you really wanted to counter Hydregion (and have utility afterwords) you could run a set consisting of Belly Drum (Sketch), Ice Shard, Move (possibly Horn leech), Other Move. With this, you'd be able to kill Hydregion/Horn Leech as they switch out of the Ice Shard to possibly get a full health +6 Pokemon with priority.

Hmm, this is very true and probably a better case for disallowing Ice Shard than the one I listed! Belly Drum / Ice Shard / Horn Leech is pretty frightening, come to think of it. Perhaps for this reason we should also be careful of Extremespeed? Although Ghost-types put a stop to it, we also have the potential to use Sucker Punch, which could lead to some nasty priority sets.

Hmm... I see what you are saying, and with you're logic, electric physical moves would be WORSE lol.

Actually, in terms of physical Electric-type moves, Skarmory is the only listed check given a run for its money. Let's refer to the list for how this could play out:

Thunder Fang
ThunderPunch

On the physical side, Life Orb Adamant 252 Shift Gear CAP2's ThunderPunch is doing 74.3% - 87.4% at +1, which isn't even enough to OHKO specially defensive Skarmory after Stealth Rock. Skarmory could be using that time to phaze, Roost, or attack with a super effective Brave Bird. It should be noted that if one can predict the switch, ThunderPunch will occasionally 2HKO on specially defensive Skarmory. If we're talking physically defensive sets, than ThunderPunch is a 3HKO without the boost and 2HKO with. ThunderPunch doesn't seem too threating, in my opinion. Taking this a step further, I would highly consider Thunder Fang for being allowed since it is essentially a weak ThunderPunch.

Also, physical Electric-type attacks make me think of Sawsbuck, who is slightly comparable to CAP2 in this situation. Most sets run Swords Dance and then three coverage moves. Both of its STAB moves are normally chosen, with a third usually consisting of Nature Power Earthquake or Jump Kick. However, many seem to forget that Sawsbuck also learns Wild Charge, which helps it defeat Pokemon that would normally stop it, such as Skarmory and Liquid Ooze Tentacruel. But the preferred options are those that get better coverage in the OU metagame. In my opinion, CAP2 would work in a similar fashion on physical sets. It will choose a boosting move, Grass-type and Ghost-type STAB, and then a coverage move. Since Stone Edge will most likely be available to it, that will probably take the cake. Still, having the option of an Electric-type coverage move is a plausible step, in my opinion.


tl;dr - Physical Electric-type moves aren't going to be doing too much to Skarmory. CAP2 often has better coverage options that Electric-type.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Fixed the error you pointed out. Thanks!

On the physical side, Life Orb Adamant 252 Shift Gear CAP2's ThunderPunch is doing 74.3% - 87.4% at +1

That is actually a really powerful hit against Skarmory, you know. If all Skarm can do in response is fail to OHKO with BB or phaze and now have to deal with the switch, then you've still successfully done away with Skarmory as a viable threat on the opposing team. That lets CAP 2 easily set up again down the road and run through the enemy's team. To be fair, I do agree that Thunder Fang and Ice Fang are 'bad' by every right and generally weaker than CAP 2's neutral STABs even when super effective. That might be the only reason I would humor them, but I'm very leery about it. These might be the only two that I'd want to think about on CAP 2. The others are stronger than my blood feels comfortable with.

 

[Birkal]

That is actually a really powerful hit against Skarmory, you know. If all Skarm can do in response is fail to OHKO with BB or phaze and now have to deal with the switch, then you've still successfully done away with Skarmory as a viable threat on the opposing team. That lets CAP 2 easily set up again down the road and run through the enemy's team. To be fair, I do agree that Thunder Fang and Ice Fang are 'bad' by every right and generally weaker than CAP 2's neutral STABs even when super effective. That might be the only reason I would humor them, but I'm very leery about it. These might be the only two that I'd want to think about on CAP 2. The others are stronger than my blood feels comfortable with.

In all fairness, physically defensive Skarmory holds up a lot better to ThunderPunch from the +1 Shift Gear set (67.7% maximum), which is going to make it a 2HKO. However, this probably isn't want we want anyways; Skarmory should be able to switch in on physically boosting sets and be a threat. If we're using that logic then, Thunder Fang could take on Skarmory as well. +1 CAP2 Thunder Fang does 49.7% minimum to physically defensive Skarmory, which is a 2HKO after Stealth Rock, despite Leftovers. Furthermore, Ice Fang still makes me squirm a bit. 96.6% minimum to Hydreigon off of the Shift Gear set is a little too intimidating, in my opinion.

 

[Master of the Six Kings]

I've been thinking about Acrobatics on this Pokemon, and i'm rather torn. Flying can combine with Water or Fighting type moves to have near perfect coverage and with access to Shell Smash + White Herb, it could be quite dangerous, even if the other move is just Hidden Power Fighting/Water. Fighting in particular will let it use Stone Edge as the final moveslot to have great coverage and mixed attacking. On the other hand, i don't think that any move that gives Necturna a good moveset should just be junked and it requires a full moveset that utilizes the boost move Sketch very effectively.

Drill Peck is far less a problem and would be almost untouched in Necturna's movepool being easily outclassed, so i'd say allow it, though maybe thats just because i dont feel it will be in the final spread xD. Air Slash however, i feel is distasteful for the same reason Rock Slide was, very little appeal but an ever annoying 30% flinch chance. It does run off the weaker stat, but that could give it some appeal in its unexpectedness. I feel it should be disallowed because it is just an unsavory move on a mon with access to any number of annoying moves or just Quiver Dancing.

 

[SJCrew]

Ice Shard and Frost Breath for allowed. They're just weak moves that sorely need boosts to do damage and soak up some of that vital three-move coverage Necturna requires if it plans to attempt a boosted sweep.

Extremespeed for allowed. It doesn't do a lot of damage to Hydreigon unless it wastes its sketch on a boosting move, which opens the floor for Heatran and Skarmory to take it on instead. Plus, the added versatility of revenge killing allows Necturna to be a useful addition to its team no matter which move it picks. If it's too Sketch-dependent, people are going to eventually give up on offensive coverage and run Spore all of the time, which basically makes it a better Breloom. That's not what I was looking for when I chose this concept and I'm sure some of you folks will agree. Throw her a bone.

Allow Power Whip as well. It doesn't affect her checks and one viable STAB isn't asking for too much when we want her to be a versatile but checkable Pokemon. Seed Bomb and Shadow Claw for coverage won't make her tame, it'll just make her bad.

Everything on the pending list should be allowed. Most of those moves are laughable competitively and the ones that aren't, like Super Fang, will allow her to pull off a cool set or two without actually beating her checks. This is a good thing.

 

[Bughouse]

I highly disagree about Ice Shard. Dragonite was supposed to be something CAP2 did not want to switch into. But now if Dragonite has had multiscale broken (especially if by Stealth Rocks,) CAP2 would be able to switch in on a Dragon Dance and use a (potentially banded) ice shard off of an amazing attack stat to deal a lot of damage to Dragonite. And Dragonite can't Extremespeed CAP2.

Dragonite should be able to beat all offensive CAP2 sets barring a Sacred Fire Burn or something like that, in my opinion.

 

[DarkOrbX]

I highly disagree about Ice Shard. Dragonite was supposed to be something CAP2 did not want to switch into. But now if Dragonite has had multiscale broken (especially if by Stealth Rocks,) CAP2 would be able to switch in on a Dragon Dance and use a (potentially banded) ice shard off of an amazing attack stat to deal a lot of damage to Dragonite. And Dragonite can't Extremespeed CAP2.

Dragonite should be able to beat all offensive CAP2 sets barring a Sacred Fire Burn or something like that, in my opinion.

Well in that case, we could try a less powerful physical ice type move like Ice Ball (30 power) or Icicle Spear (25 power). I'll run some calculations for that later today.

 

[SJCrew]

Dragonite isn't listed in the OP where the primary checks are, so I'm assuming it's not that important. Even if CAP started running that just for Dragonite, it doesn't beat the rest of its 4 checks and causes some huge opportunity costs in terms of moveset. I can think of ten different things I'd rather be running than Ice Shard on any given moveset, personally.

 

[Yarnus of Bethany]

I'm not sure why everyone cares so much about the super-effectiveness of Thunder Punch. Most pokemon carry a niche move that beats their counters, but still end up sticking with the normal set. For example, Infernape carries dark moves, but rarely are they used even though they beat Lati@s, its main counter. Carrying coverage moves useful only against one counter does not make one overpowered.

 

[Raikaria]

Power Whip vs Leaf Blade

WARNING, MASSIVE AMOUNT OF CALCULATIONS

Hide

  [B]Certain 2HKO’s gained at +0[/B]
  Abomasnow (OU Choice Scarf) Power Whip 57.94 - 68.22% Leaf Blade 43.61 - 51.4%
  Deoxys-D (OU Spikes) Power Whip 58.22 - 68.42% Leaf Blade 43.42 - 51.31%
  Ninetales (OU Special Attacker) Power Whip 58.18 - 68.64% Leaf Blade 43.9 - 51.56%
  Ninetales (OU Nasty Plot) Power Whip 58.18 - 68.64% Leaf Blade 43.9 - 51.56%
  Ninetales (OU Choice Specs) Power Whip 58.18 - 68.64% Leaf Blade 43.9 - 51.56%
  Gyarados (OU Choice Band [Intimidate]) Power Whip 58.3 - 68.88% Leaf Blade 43.5 - 51.66%
  Tornadus (OU Acrobatics) Power Whip 58.52 - 69.23% Leaf Blade 44.14 - 52.17%
  Wobbuffet (OU Oh, no! It's Wobbuffet!) Power Whip 59.3 - 69.86% Leaf Blade 44.52 - 52.59%
  Tornadus (OU Rain Abuser) Power Whip 59.19 - 69.89% Leaf Blade 44.14 - 52.17%
  Virizion (OU Work Up) Power Whip 59.44 - 69.96% Leaf Blade 44.58 - 52.63%
  Infernape (OU Choice Band) Power Whip 59.18 - 70.06% Leaf Blade 44.55 - 52.38%
  Lilligant (OU Quiver Dance) Power Whip 59.43 - 70.1% Leaf Blade 44.83 - 52.66%
  Infernape (OU Mixed Attacker) Power Whip 59.38 - 70.3% Leaf Blade 44.7 - 52.55% 
  Infernape (OU Swords Dance) Power Whip 59.38 - 70.3% Leaf Blade 44.7 - 52.55%
  Infernape (OU Nasty Plot) Power Whip 59.38 - 70.3% Leaf Blade 44.7 - 52.55%
  Spiritomb (OU Calm Mind) Power Whip 59.53 - 70.39% Leaf Blade 44.4 - 52.63%
  Breloom (OU SubPunch) Power Whip 60.22 - 70.83% Leaf Blade 45.07 - 53.4%
  Darmanitan (OU Choice Scarf) Power Whip 60.68 - 71.5% Leaf Blade 45.58 - 53.84%
  Darmanitan (OU Physical Attacker) Power Whip 60.68 - 71.5% Leaf Blade 45.58 - 53.84%
  Toxicroak (OU Swords Dance) Power Whip 60.71 - 71.75% Leaf Blade 45.77 - 53.89%
  Toxicroak (OU Nasty Plot) Power Whip 60.71 - 71.75% Leaf Blade 45.77 - 53.89%
  Shiftry (OU Nasty Plot) Power Whip 61.8 - 72.98% Leaf Blade 46.58 - 54.96%
  Shiftry (OU Swords Dance) Power Whip 61.8 - 72.98% Leaf Blade 46.58 - 54.96%
  Shiftry (OU Choice Specs) Power Whip 61.8 - 72.98% Leaf Blade 46.58 - 54.96%
  Shiftry (OU Growth) Power Whip 61.99 - 73.2% Leaf Blade 46.72 - 55.14%
  Gyarados (OU Substitute + Dragon Dance [Intimidate]) Power Whip 62.02 - 73.33% Leaf Blade 46.37 - 55.07%
  Lucario (OU Swords Dance) Power Whip 62.76 - 74.11% Leaf Blade46.8 - 55.31% 
  Lucario (OU Nasty Plot) Power Whip 62.76 - 74.11% Leaf Blade 46.8 - 55.31% 
  Lucario (OU Agility) Power Whip 62.76 - 74.11% Leaf Blade 46.8 - 55.31%
  Lucario (OU Choice Specs) Power Whip 62.76 - 74.11% Leaf Blade 46.8 - 55.31%
  Lucario (OU Choice Band) Power Whip 62.76 - 74.11% Leaf Blade 46.8 - 55.31% 
  Lucario (OU Choice Scarf) Power Whip 62.76 - 74.11% Leaf Blade 46.8 - 55.31%
  Snorlax (OU CurseLax) Power Whip 63.97 - 75.59% Leaf Blade 48.03 - 56.69%
  Hitmontop (OU Rapid Spin) Power Whip 65.13 - 76.97% Leaf Blade 48.68 - 57.56%
  Crustle (OU Support) Power Whip 66.06 - 78.18% Leaf Blade 49.69 - 58.78%
  Cradily (OU Mono-Attacker) Power Whip 66.22 - 78.19% Leaf Blade 49.73 - 59.04%
  *Beyond this point Leaf Blade is a OHKO at +2 due to there being no chance for leftovers, BP’ed Ingain, ect*
  Sceptile (OU Life Orb) Power Whip 66.31 - 78.36% Leaf Blade 50 - 58.86%
  Conkeldurr (OU Substitute + Focus Punch) Power Whip 66.66 - 78.5% Leaf Blade 50 - 58.93%
  Conkeldurr (OU Choice Band) Power Whip 66.66 - 78.5% Leaf Blade 50 - 58.93%
  Blissey (OU Support) Power Whip 67.22 - 79.13% Leaf Blade 50.42 - 59.38%
  Blissey (OU Wish Support) Power Whip 67.22 - 79.13% Leaf Blade 50.42 - 59.38%
  Ludicolo (OU SubSeed) Power Whip 67.85 - 80.21% Leaf Blade 51.09 - 60.16%
  Tentacruel (OU Toxic Spikes) Power Whip 69.23 - 81.59% Leaf Blade 51.92 - 61.26%
  Dusknoir (OU SubPunch)Power Whip 69.38 - 81.97% Leaf Blade 52.04 - 61.22%
  Bouffalant (OU Choice Band) Power Whip 70.05 - 82.48% Leaf Blade 52.03 - 61.67%
  Scrafty (OU Bulk Up) Power Whip 70.05 - 82.63% Leaf Blade 52.99 - 62.27%
  Throh (OU Bulk Up) Power Whip 70.2 - 82.67% Leaf Blade 52.65 - 61.89%
  Galvantula (OU Life Orb) Power Whip 70.56 - 83.33% Leaf Blade 53.19 - 62.76%
  Galvantula (OU Choice Specs) Power Whip 70.56 - 83.33% Leaf Blade 53.19 - 62.76%
  Conkeldurr (OU Bulk Up) Power Whip 72.44 - 85.3% Leaf Blade 54.33 - 64.04%
  Sceptile (OU SubSeed) Power Whip 72.76 - 85.99% Leaf Blade 54.86 - 64.59%
  Gliscor (OU AcroBat) Power Whip 74.57 - 87.97% Leaf Blade 55.67 - 65.97%
  Snorlax (OU Offensive) Power Whip 75.37 - 88.74% Leaf Blade 56.26 - 66.45%
  Milotic (OU Physically Defensive [Marvel Scale]) Power Whip 75.12 - 88.83% Leaf Blade 56.34 - 67%
  
  [B]Certain OHKO’s gained at +0[/B]
  Eelektross (OU Mixed Attacker) Power Whip 102.25 - 120.57% Leaf Blade 76.52 - 90.67% 
  Kingdra (OU Mixed Rain Dance) Power Whip 105.15 - 124.05% Leaf Blade 79.38 - 93.81% 
  Kingdra (OU Mixed Dragon Dance) Power Whip 105.15 - 124.05% Leaf Blade 79.38 - 93.81%
  Nidoking (OU Special Attacker) Power Whip 107.59 - 126.73% Leaf Blade 81.18 - 95.04%
  Nidoking (OU Choice Scarf) Power Whip 107.59 - 126.73% Leaf Blade 81.18 - 95.04%
  Nidoking (OU Mixed Hone Claws) Power Whip 108.25 - 127.39% Leaf Blade 81.18 - 96.36%
  Gallade (OU Bulk Up) Power Whip 111.27 - 131.15% Leaf Blade 83.67 - 98.81% 
  Milotic (OU Physically Defensive) Power Whip 111.67 - 132.48% Leaf Blade 84.26 - 99.49%
  Vaporeon (OU Wish Support) Power Whip 112.74 - 132.61% Leaf Blade 84.23 - 99.78%
  Vaporeon (OU Hydration Wall) Power Whip 112.74 - 132.61% Leaf Blade 84.23 - 99.78%
  Suicune (OU Substitute + Calm Mind) Power Whip 115.84 - 136.63% Leaf Blade 87.62 - 102.97%
  Ludicolo (OU Special Rain) Power Whip 117.54 - 138.41% Leaf Blade 87.74 - 103.64%
  Ludicolo (OU Swords Dance) Power Whip 117.54 - 138.41% Leaf Blade 87.74 - 103.64%
  Donphan (OU Offensive Rapid Spin) Power Whip 117.7 - 139.06% Leaf Blade 88.02 - 103.64%
  Espeon (OU Dual Screens) Power Whip 118.86 - 140.11% Leaf Blade 89.22 - 105.38%
  Azelf (OU Nasty Plot) Power Whip 119.12 - 140.26% Leaf Blade 88.92 - 105.03%
  Politoed (OU Defensive) Power Whip 119.27 - 140.62% Leaf Blade 89.58 - 106.25% 
  Espeon (OU Baton Pass) Power Whip 119.46 - 141.01% Leaf Blade 89.82 - 105.98%
  Tyranitar (OU Mixed Attacker) Power Whip 120.79 - 142.57% Leaf Blade 90.59 - 106.93%
  Tyranitar (OU Specially Defensive) Power Whip 120.79 - 142.57% Leaf Blade 90.59 - 106.93%
  Tyranitar (OU TyraniBoah (SubPunch)) Power Whip 120.79 - 142.57% Leaf Blade90.59 - 106.93%
  Tyranitar (OU TyraniBoah (SubPunch) [Sand Stream]) Power Whip 120.79 - 142.57% Leaf Blade90.59 - 106.93%
  Azelf (OU Stealth Rock) Power Whip 121.57 - 143.15% Leaf Blade 90.75 - 107.19% 
  Azelf (OU Physical Choice) Power Whip 121.99 - 143.64% Leaf Blade 91.06 - 107.56%
  Jellicent (OU Utility Counter) Power Whip 122.58 - 144.91% Leaf Blade 92.3 - 108.68%
  Slowbro (OU Choice Specs) Power Whip 123.35 - 145.17% Leaf Blade 92.89 - 109.64%
  Aerodactyl (OU Hone Claws) Power Whip 124.17 - 146.35% Leaf Blade 93.37 - 110.26%
  Aerodactyl  (OU Offensive) Power Whip 124.17 - 146.35% Leaf Blade 93.37 - 110.26%
  Aerodactyl (OU Stealth Rock) Power Whip 124.17 - 146.35% Leaf Blade 93.37 - 110.26%
  Milotic (OU RestTalk) Power Whip 124.87 - 146.7% Leaf Blade 93.4 - 110.15%
  Cloyster (OU Shell Smash) Power Whip 124.11 - 147.03% Leaf Blade 93.28 - 111.46%
  Tentacruel (OU Offensive) Power Whip 125.41 - 147.82% Leaf Blade 94.31 - 111.37%
  Electivire (OU Physical Attacker) Power Whip 125.34 - 147.94% Leaf Blade 94.52 - 111.3%
  Archeops (OU Acrobatics) Power Whip 128.17 - 150.85% Leaf Blade 96.21 - 113.74%
  Archeops (OU Physical Sweeper) Power Whip 128.17 - 150.85% Leaf Blade 96.21 - 113.74%
  Krookodile (OU Bulk Up [Intimidate]) Power Whip 128.1 - 151.35% Leaf Blade 96.21 - 113.51%
  Tyranitar (OU Choice Band) Power Whip 128.42 - 151.57% Leaf Blade 96.31 - 113.68%
  Weavile (OU OU Physical Attacker) Power Whip 128.86 - 151.89% Leaf Blade 96.9 - 114.43%
  Weavile (OU OU Swords Dance) Power Whip 128.86 - 151.89% Leaf Blade 96.9 - 114.43%
  Slowking (OU Tank) Power Whip 129.44 - 152.28% Leaf Blade 96.44 - 114.21%
  Slowking (OU Defensive Nasty Plot) Power Whip 129.44 - 152.28% Leaf Blade 96.44 - 114.21%
  Vaporeon (OU Baton Pass)Power Whip129 - 152.38%Leaf Blade96.53 - 114.2%
   
  [B]OHKO’s gained at +1[/B]
  Conkeldurr  (OU Substitute + Focus Punch) Power Whip 100 - 117.63% Leaf Blade 74.87 - 88.4%
  Conkeldurr (OU Choice Band) Power Whip 100 - 117.63% Leaf Blade 74.87 - 88.4%
  Blissey (OU Support) Power Whip 100.56 - 118.48% Leaf Blade 75.35 - 88.79%
  Blissey (OU Wish Support) Power Whip 100.56 - 118.48% Leaf Blade 75.35 - 88.79% 
  Ludicolo (OU SubSeed) Power Whip 101.64 - 119.78% Leaf Blade 76.09 - 89.83%
  Tentacruel (OU Toxic Spikes) Power Whip 103.29 - 121.97% Leaf Blade 77.74 - 91.75%
  Dusknoir (OU SubPunch) Power Whip 104.08 - 122.44% Leaf Blade 77.89 - 91.83%
  Bouffalant (OU Choice Band) Power Whip 104.31 - 122.84% Leaf Blade 78.42 - 92.38%
  Throh (OU Bulk Up) Power Whip 104.84 - 123.55% Leaf Blade 78.29 - 92.37%
  Scrafty (OU Bulk Up) Power Whip 105.08 - 123.95% Leaf Blade 79.04 - 93.41% 
  Galvantula (OU Life Orb) Power Whip 106.02 - 124.82% Leaf Blade 79.78 - 93.61% 
  Galvantula (OU Choice Specs) Power Whip 106.02 - 124.82% Leaf Blade 79.78 - 93.61% 
  Conkeldurr (OU Bulk Up) Power Whip 108.66 - 127.82% Leaf Blade 81.36 - 96.06%
  Sceptile (OU SubSeed) Power Whip 109.33 - 128.79% Leaf Blade 82.1 - 96.88%
  Gliscor (OU AcroBat) Power Whip 111.68 - 131.95% Leaf Blade 83.84 - 98.96%
  Milotic (OU Physically Defensive [Marvel Scale]) Power Whip 111.67 - 132.48% Leaf Blade 84.26 - 99.49%
  Snorlax (OU Offensive) Power Whip 112.73 - 132.69% Leaf Blade 84.71 - 99.57%
  Reuniclus (OU Offensive Trick Room) Power Whip 113.2 - 133.49% Leaf Blade 85.08 - 100%
  Gengar (OU Substitute + Disable) Power Whip 114.12 - 134.35% Leaf Blade 85.87 - 100.76%
  Crustle (OU Shell Smash) Power Whip 115.6 - 136.17% Leaf Blade 87.23 - 102.12%
  Mew (OU Nasty Plot) Power Whip 116.08 - 136.84% Leaf Blade 86.84 - 102.63%
  Gyarados (OU Bulky Dragon Dance) Power Whip 116.21 - 137.02% Leaf Blade 87.02 - 102.43%
  Empoleon (OU Specially Defensive) Power Whip 118.54 - 139.78% Leaf Blade 88.97 - 104.83% 
  Empoleon (OU Choice Specs) Power Whip 118.86 - 140.16% Leaf Blade 89.21 - 105.12%
  Hippowdon (OU Physical Wall) Power Whip 121.42 - 142.85% Leaf Blade 90.47 - 107.14%
  Alomomola (OU Wish Support) Power Whip 123.97 - 146.06% Leaf Blade 92.5 - 109.36%
  Milotic (OU RestTalk [Marvel Scale]) Power Whip 124.87 - 146.7% Leaf Blade 93.4 - 110.15%
  Machamp (OU Attacking Lead) Power Whip 124.67 - 147.24% Leaf Blade 93.96 - 111.02%
  Kingdra (OU ChestoRest Dragon Dance) Power Whip 126.6 - 148.92% Leaf Blade94.8 - 111.92%
  Eelektross (OU Acid Spray) Power Whip 127 - 150% Leaf Blade 95.72 - 113.1%
  Eelektross (OU Physical Coil) Power Whip 127 - 150% Leaf Blade 95.72 - 113.1%
  Eelektross (OU Mixed Coil) Power Whip 127 - 150% Leaf Blade 95.72 - 113.1%
  Cloyster (OU Utility) Power Whip 128.71 - 151.15% Leaf Blade 95.7 - 113.53%
  Suicune (OU CroCune) Power Whip 128.21 - 151.48% Leaf Blade 96.53 - 113.36%
  Scrafty (OU Dragon Dance) Power Whip 129.04 - 152.2% Leaf Blade 97.05 - 114.7%
  Gyarados (OU Choice Band) Power Whip 130.81 - 154.07% Leaf Blade 98.18 - 116.01%
  Kingdra (OU Choice Specs) Power Whip 131.01 - 154.11% Leaf Blade 98.1 - 115.82%
  Donphan (OU Defensive Rapid Spin) Power Whip 131.25 - 154.68% Leaf Blade 98.43 - 116.14%
  Accelgor (OU Life Orb Sweeper) Power Whip 133.11 - 156.62% Leaf Blade 99.66 - 117.54%
   
  [B]Certain 2HKO’s gained at +1 [Factoring Leftrovers][/B]
  Cresselia (OU Support) Power Whip 56.75 - 66.89% Leaf Blade 42.56 - 50.22%
  Zapdos (OU SubRoost) Power Whip 56.91 - 67.2% Leaf Blade 42.81 - 50.4%
  Xatu (OU Physically Defensive) Power Whip 57.18 - 67.36% Leaf Blade 43.11 - 50.59%
  Jirachi (OU Choice Scarf) Power Whip 57.77 - 68.03% Leaf Blade 43.1 - 51.02%
  Victini (OU Physical Attacker) Power Whip 57.77 - 68.03% Leaf Blade 43.1 - 51.02%
  Victini (OU Offensive Choice Scarf) Power Whip 57.77 - 68.03% Leaf Blade 43.1 - 51.02%
  Celebi (OU Choice) Power Whip 57.89 - 68.42% Leaf Blade 43.27 - 51.16% 
  Jirachi (OU Superachi! (Offensive Calm Mind)) Power Whip 57.89 - 68.42% Leaf Blade 43.27 - 51.16%
  Shaymin (OU Special Attacker) Power Whip 57.89 - 68.42% Leaf Blade 43.27 - 51.16%
  Victini (OU Special Sweeper) Power Whip 57.89 - 68.42% Leaf Blade 43.27 - 51.16%
  Breloom (OU SubSeed) Power Whip 58.12 - 68.43% Leaf Blade 43.75 - 51.56%
  Porygon2 (OU Defensive Duck) Power Whip 58.02 - 68.44% Leaf Blade 43.31 - 51.33%
  Togekiss (OU Offensive Nasty Plot) Power Whip 58.3 - 68.45% Leaf Blade 43.66 - 51.54%
  Bisharp (OU Swords Dance) Power Whip 58.98 - 69.46% Leaf Blade 44.01 - 52.09%
  Latias (OU Support) Power Whip 59.34 - 69.78% Leaf Blade 44.23 - 52.19%
  Latias (OU Calm Mind) Power Whip 59.34 - 70.05% Leaf Blade 44.5 - 52.74%
  Klinklang (OU Shift Gear) Power Whip 59.52 - 70.4% Leaf Blade 44.89 - 53.06%
  Magnezone (OU Substitute + 3 Attacks) Power Whip 60.34 - 71.37% Leaf Blade45.51 - 53.79% 
  Roserade (OU Toxic Spikes) Power Whip 61.06 - 71.75% Leaf Blade 45.8 - 53.81%
  Volbeat (OU Prankster) Power Whip 61.26 - 72.07% Leaf Blade 45.94 - 54.05%
  Cresselia (OU Dual Screens Support) Power Whip 61.03 - 72.29% Leaf Blade 45.94 - 54.27%
  Magnezone (OU Choice Scarf) Power Whip 62.05 - 73.4% Leaf Blade 46.8 - 55.31%
  Xatu (OU Dual Screens) Power Whip 62.87 - 74.25% Leaf Blade 47.3 - 55.68%
  Hydreigon (OU Choice Specs) Power Whip 63.34 - 74.78% Leaf Blade 47.5 - 56.3%
  Cresselia (OU Calm Mind) Power Whip 63.73 - 75.22% Leaf Blade 47.52 - 56.3%
  Latios (OU Dual Screen + Memento) Power Whip 65.1 - 76.64% Leaf Blade 48.9 - 57.69%
  Bisharp (OU Thunder Wave) Power Whip 65.13 - 76.97% Leaf Blade 48.68 - 57.56%
  Hitmontop (OU Rapid Spin [Intimidate]) Power Whip 65.13 - 76.97% Leaf Blade 48.68 - 57.56%
  Hydreigon (OU Offensive) Power Whip 66.25 - 78.22% Leaf Blade 49.69 - 58.89%
  Hydreigon (OU Choice Scarf) Power Whip 66.25 - 78.22% Leaf Blade 49.69 - 58.89%
  Uxie (OU Support) Power Whip 66.94 - 79.09% Leaf Blade 50.28 - 59.6%
  Uxie (OU Dual Screens) Power Whip 66.94 - 79.09% Leaf Blade 50.28 - 59.6%
  Cofagrigus (OU Calm Mind) Power Whip 68.43 - 80.62% Leaf Blade 51.56 - 60.93%
  Dusclops (OU Defensive) Power Whip 69.71 - 82.39% Leaf Blade 52.11 - 61.61%
  Dusclops (OU RestTalk) Power Whip 69.71 - 82.39% Leaf Blade 52.11 - 61.61%
  Zapdos (OU Special Attacker) Power Whip 70.49 - 82.91% Leaf Blade 52.48 - 62.11%
  Heracross (OU Bulk Up) Power Whip 71.1 - 83.85% Leaf Blade 53.25 - 62.88%
  Haxorus (OU Choice Band) Power Whip 71.52 - 84.43% Leaf Blade 53.64 - 63.57%
  Haxorus (OU Double Dance) Power Whip 71.52 - 84.43% Leaf Blade 53.64 - 63.57%
  Haxorus (OU Dragon Dance) Power Whip 71.52 - 84.43% Leaf Blade 53.64 - 63.57%
  Haxorus (OU Swords Dance) Power Whip 71.52 - 84.43% Leaf Blade 53.64 - 63.57%
  Latias (OU Choice Specs) Power Whip 71.52 - 84.43% Leaf Blade 53.64 - 63.57%
  Ninetales (OU Specially Defensive) Power Whip 71.71 - 84.57% Leaf Blade 53.71 - 63.42%
  Mew (OU Support) Power Whip 72.27 - 85.39% Leaf Blade 54.2 - 63.86%
  Gliscor (OU Swords Dance) Power Whip 72.31 - 85.59% Leaf Blade 54.51 - 64.4%
  Gliscor (OU Defensive) Power Whip 72.31 - 85.59% Leaf Blade 54.51 - 64.4%
  Gliscor (OU Substitute) Power Whip 72.31 - 85.59% Leaf Blade 54.51 - 64.4%
  Arcanine (OU Physical Attacker) Power Whip 73.6 - 86.95% Leaf Blade 55.59 - 65.52%
  Breloom (OU Bulk Up) Power Whip 74.06 - 87.5% Leaf Blade 55.93 - 65.93% 
  Cofagrigus (OU Bulky Ghost) Power Whip 74.06 - 87.5% Leaf Blade55.62 - 65.62% 
  Mew (OU Baton Pass) Power Whip 74.25 - 87.62% Leaf Blade 55.94 - 66.08%
  Chansey (OU Wish) Power Whip 74.57 - 87.78% Leaf Blade 55.82 - 65.76%
  Chansey (OU Counter) Power Whip 74.57 - 87.78% Leaf Blade 55.82 - 65.76%
  Toxicroak (OU Bulk Up) Power Whip 75 - 88.31% Leaf Blade56.25 - 66.3%
   
  [B]OHKO’s gained at +2 : See 2HKO’s gained at +0[/B]
  
  [B]Certain 2HKO’s gained at +2[/B]
  Zapdos (OU Physically Defensive) Power Whip 56.39 - 66.31% Leaf Blade 42.03 - 49.6%
  Latias (OU Physically Defensive Calm Mind) Power Whip 56.86 - 67.03% Leaf Blade 42.85 - 50.27%
  Venusaur (OU Mixed Growth) Power Whip 57.14 - 67.44% Leaf Blade 42.85 - 50.83%
  Metagross (OU Choice Band) Power Whip 57.69 - 67.85% Leaf Blade 43.13 - 51.09%
  Venomoth (OU Baton Passer) Power Whip 57.84 - 68.02% Leaf Blade 43.31 - 51.16%
  Metagross (OU Stealth Rock) Power Whip 57.69 - 68.13% Leaf Blade 43.4 - 51.09%
  Mandibuzz (OU Specially Defensive) Power Whip 59.43 - 70.04% Leaf Blade 44.57 - 52.35%
  Volcarona (OU Substitute) Power Whip 59.8 - 70.41% Leaf Blade 44.69 - 52.73%
  Volcarona (OU Moths Like Water, Not Fire (Drizzle Volcarona)) Power Whip 60.12 - 70.73% Leaf Blade 45.01 - 53.05%
  Volcarona (OU Offensive Quiver Dance) Power Whip 60.12 - 70.73% Leaf Blade 45.01 - 53.05%
  Bronzong (OU Dual Screens) Power Whip 62.13 - 73.07% Leaf Blade 46.44 - 55.02%
  Magnezone (OU Dual Screen) Power Whip 62.5 - 73.54% Leaf Blade 46.8 - 54.94%
  Tangrowth (OU Chlorophyll Sweeper) Power Whip 63.92 - 75.36% Leaf Blade 47.8 - 56.3%
  Bronzong (OU Tank) Power Whip 63.9 - 75.44% Leaf Blade 47.92 - 56.8%
  Jirachi (OU Specially Defensive) Power Whip 65.09 - 76.73% Leaf Blade 49 - 57.92%
  Jirachi (OU SubCM) Power Whip 65.09 - 76.73% Leaf Blade 49 - 57.92%
  Shaymin (OU Leech Seed) Power Whip 65.09 - 76.73% Leaf Blade 49 - 57.92% 
  Victini (OU Choice Scarf + Final Gambit) Power Whip 65.09 - 76.73% Leaf Blade 49 - 57.92%
  Victini (OU Support) Power Whip 65.09 - 76.73% Leaf Blade 49 - 57.92%
  Whimsicott (OU Prankster) Power Whip 65.12 - 76.85% Leaf Blade 48.76 - 57.4% 
  Cobalion (OU Calm Mind) Power Whip 65.43 - 77.16% Leaf Blade 49.07 - 57.71% 
  Cobalion (OU Swords Dance) Power Whip 65.63 - 77.39% Leaf Blade 49.22 - 57.89%
  Celebi (OU Tinkerbell) Power Whip 65.91 - 77.69% Leaf Blade 49.62 - 58.64%
  Metagross (OU Choice Scarf) Power Whip 65.83 - 77.74% Leaf Blade 49.52 - 58.3%
  Sigilyph (OU Cosmic Power) Power Whip 66.09 - 77.87% Leaf Blade 50 - 58.62%
  Celebi (OU Nasty Plot Sweeper) Power Whip 66.41 - 78.28% Leaf Blade 50 - 59.09%
  Metagross (OU Agility) Power Whip 66.87 - 78.98% Leaf Blade 50.31 - 59.23%
  Bronzong (OU Offensive Trick Room) Power Whip 68.63 - 80.76% Leaf Blade 51.47 - 60.65%
  Metagross (OU Mixed) Power Whip 69.76 - 82.39% Leaf Blade 52.49 - 61.79%
  Drapion (OU Toxic Spikes) Power Whip 70.34 - 82.84% Leaf Blade 52.9 - 62.2%
  Venomoth (OU Quiver Dance Sweeper) Power Whip 70.46 - 82.91% Leaf Blade 52.66 - 62.27% 
  Abomasnow (OU SubSeed) Power Whip 70.57 - 83.33% Leaf Blade 53.12 - 62.5%
  Kyurem (OU Glaciate) Power Whip 71.11 - 83.7% Leaf Blade 53.33 - 62.96%
  Jirachi (OU Substitute + Paralysis) Power Whip 72.85 - 85.87% Leaf Blade 54.84 - 64.81%
  Togekiss (OU Paralysis Abuse) Power Whip 73.26 - 86.36% Leaf Blade 54.81 - 64.7%
  Togekiss (OU Defensive Nasty Plot) Power Whip 73.52 - 86.63% Leaf Blade 55.34 - 64.97%
  Kyurem (OU Choice) Power Whip 73.65 - 86.7% Leaf Blade 55.24 - 65.21%
  Kyurem (OU Life Orb) Power Whip 73.65 - 86.7% Leaf Blade 55.24 - 65.21%
  Arcanine (OU Physical Attacker [Intimidate]) Power Whip 73.6 - 86.95% Leaf Blade 55.59 - 65.52%
   
  [B]List of pokemon never 2HKO’ed by +2 Power Whip or Shadow Claw[/B]
  Sawsbuck (OU Baton Pass) Power Whip 0 - 0% Shadow Claw 0 - 0%
  Forretress (OU Physically Defensive) Shadow Claw 25.98 - 30.5% Power Whip22.03 - 26.27% 
  Skarmory (OU Physically Defensive) Shadow Claw 26.64 - 31.43% Power Whip 22.75 - 26.64%
  Ferrothorn (OU Standard) Shadow Claw 29.26 - 34.65% Power Whip 25 - 29.54%
  Forretress (OU Specially Defensive) Shadow Claw 32.48 - 38.41% Power Whip 27.68 - 32.48%
  Skarmory (OU Specially Defensive) Shadow Claw34.43 - 40.71% Power Whip 29.34 - 34.73%
  Ferrothorn (OU Choice Band) Shadow Claw 34.75 - 41.02% Power Whip 29.62 - 35.04%
  Heatran (OU Specially Defensive) Shadow Claw 38.18 - 44.93% Power Whip 32.46 - 38.44%
  Heatran (OU TormenTran) Shadow Claw 38.28 - 45.05% Power Whip 32.55 - 38.54%
  *Dragonite is always 2HKO’ed. He cannot switch in on either Power Whip or shadow Claw, as the following Shadow Claw would KO, unless both damage rolls are low. Woe betide Dragonite if Rocks are up*
  Dragonite (OU Bulky Dragon Dance [Multiscale]) Shadow Claw 41.45 - 49.22% Power Whip 17.87 - 20.98%
  Dragonite (OU Substitute + Dragon Dance [Multiscale]) Shadow Claw 41.45 - 49.22% Power Whip 17.87 - 20.98%
  Dragonite (OU Parashuffler [Multiscale]) Shadow Claw 41.45 - 49.22% Power Whip 17.87 - 20.98%

This took me ages to format and copy, so I haven't gone through them and found redunant ones. My browser crashing twice didn't help.

So, what is the summary?

1: Power Whip gets/assures many significant OHKO's/2HKO'sLeaf Blade cannot even at +0.

2: Power Whip can muscle past massivly bulky pokemon such as Cresselia at only +1.

3: Power Whip eases prediction. For example, at +2, something like Zapdos could come in and handle this monster if it switched in on Leaf Blade. Not the case with Power Whip.

I say disallow Power Whip. The number of significant [and insignificant] extra 2HKO's and OHKO's is too much, especially at +1, bearing in mind Coil and Hone Claws both remove the possibility of missing.

 

[Stratos]

I disagree, Raikaria. The number of O and 2HKOes guaranteed by Power Whip ensure that physical sets won't suck compared to their special counterparts. A coil set will most likely go with Horn Leech anyway, but Power Whip on other, more offensive sets narrows its list of counters from "OU and most of UU" to "a few, select Pokemon."

I think Ice Shard should be allowed. On a non-belly drum set it's practically worthless. But by itself it makes Belly Drum viable (mostly) and i think that that's pretty cool. BD wouldn't be broken - the turn of extreme vulnerability and crippling speed make sure of that, and it's still checked by Tran, Skarm, and Rachi. But it gives a new facet of abuse and that's pretty cool.

 

[SJCrew]

Those calcs don't make any sense. First, how do you switch in on a boosted attack? The check is either going to come in right away as you boost, or switch in on a neutral Power Whip and take little damage anyway. You can't do both at once. Then you went on to list its checks, which beat it with or without Power Whip, proving that it's still tame and a stronger STAB attack only makes it better at what it's supposed to do.

2: Power Whip can muscle past massivly bulky pokemon such as Cresselia at only +1.

I'm confused. Where's Cresselia on the list of checks? Why is she trying to counter a Ghost Pokemon? Why shouldn't Necturna be able to muscle her way past bulky Pokemon that don't resist her moves? Isn't that her job?

 

[Raikaria]

Those calcs don't make any sense. First, how do you switch in on a boosted attack? The check is either going to come in right away as you boost, or switch in on a neutral Power Whip and take little damage anyway. You can't do both at once. Then you went on to list its checks, which beat it with or without Power Whip, proving that it's still tame and a stronger STAB attack only makes it better at what it's supposed to do.

I'm confused. Where's Cresselia on the list of checks? Why is she trying to counter a Ghost Pokemon? Why shouldn't Necturna be able to muscle her way past bulky Pokemon that don't resist her moves? Isn't that her job?

'How do you switch in on a boosted attack' is simple. Necturna can use ANY boosting move, or support,. You only have to send in a check for, say, Quiver Dance... oh no, it's Gear Shift, and you now have to switch in on a boosted attack!

Not to mention many pokemon can't OHKO Nectuna due to her bulk... or possible Coil/Quiver Dance sets.

Not to mention Cress might not be able to counter, but she sure is bulky. It's an example of the sheer force behind Power Whip.

There's a big difference between powerful and excessive. Even at +1, if you don't have a x4 resistance, or a x2 resistance and bulk that's Metagross-grade or an immunity to Grass, you are not coming in on Power Whip.

Not to mention none of those calculations consider hazards, which add more 2HKO's, or turn 2HKO's into OHKO's.

I mean, putting the pressure on frail resists is fine. 2HKO'ing things like Conkeldurr and Gliscor isn't. Removing Power Whip means you actually have to predict switch ins, and use Shadow Claw when appropriate, instead of 'mindlessly spam Power Whip to 2HKO the world'. That's why I included the 2HKO's and OHKO's at +0...

The main point of the list is the checks at +0 and +1, as well as showing things which are forced out with Power Whip that would not with Leaf Blade... like Tyranitar.

Also, those 'checks' are all demolished by HP Fire. Except Heatran. And you have 5 other pokemon. Or, alternativly, you can pair up with Magnezone, as they're all Steels!

 

[Pallas Athena]

CaP2 is supposed to be powerful. For the record, powerful in OU usually means 2HKO's on a variety of bulky Pokemon. You'll notice that Conkeldurr and Gliscor never appear on our list of checks or counters. It's because they aren't supposed to counter CaP2. If anything, you've proven that without Power Whip CaP2 would find herself walled by quite a bit of the metagame, instead of just her designated checks, who still wall her even after boosts.

Your comment about "need to know when to use Shadow Claw" also makes zero sense, as Conkeldurr and Gliscor take even less from it than Power Whip, and Cresselia is mostly irrelevant in OU. If you mean "predict and use the appropriate coverage move" here's a reality check: it doesn't look like she's going to have any particularly notable ones.

As for what was meant by "Switch in on a boost," it didn't mean that CaP2 can not boost. In your situation, you state that CaP2 boosts on a switch. This means that if he's 2HKO'd, the bulky Pokemon in question still has a chance to attack, or two if they're still faster.

If anything, CaP2 without Power Whip would find itself walled by a variety of Pokemon it was not supposed to be walled by, such as Gliscor and Conkeldurr. And every steel in OU (bar Lucario) still gives gives CaP2 trouble if it goes a boosting route. Power Whip wouldn't be overpowering. If anything, it's needed to keep CaP2 hitting at a decent level and not walled by half the metagame.

 

[JGSabino]

I think CAP 2 is depending a lot more in Sketch than it should be. I mean, it's ok to use Sketch to complete Sets with coverage, support moves and setup moves, but she can only do one thing at the same time. Her typing is already bad offensively, and making Leaf Blade her strongest STAB won't help at all. Her counters will still counter her, I don't see the problem of giving her Power Whip.

 

[Raikaria]

If you mean "predict and use the appropriate coverage move" here's a reality check: it doesn't look like she's going to have any particularly notable ones.

She has every coverage move.

She can forgo setting up for addittional coverage. Sacred Fire/Power Whip/Shadow Claw is only resisted by Heatran, Hydregion and Houndoom, who can be handled by HP Fighting, for example.

Which is another key reason I included the +0 calculations.

 

[capefeather]

I'm going to defend physical Ice-type moves again. While Shift Gear + Ice move does allow Necturna to beat some Hydreigon:

1. You have revealed the Shift Gear plan.
2. Hydreigon could have a Choice Scarf. EDIT: Gah, Shift Gear is +2 Speed, isn't it? -.- my bad
3. Hydreigon could switch out to a better check (or not).

I personally had the general idea of not helping Necturna against her counters, but I actually like iffy situations like this, especially since it requires Necturna to reveal her set. Do you switch out? Do you attack? What will Hydreigon do?

As for Power Whip, I've defended it before (against my personal flavour concerns, even).

 

[Spork]

SJCrew is making the most sense, there's nothing much I need add to it. Allow Power Whip.

Grass/Ghost is walled by half the metagame, so Necturna basically needs coverage in order to be successful. Can we stop trying to invent new counters? She has more than enough already. Trying to sweep OU with solely a +1 Leaf Blade and Shadow Claw is not a particularly fruitful endeavour. If we can beat Dragonite and Salamence (and honestly, we can't most of the time anyway) then that's absolutely FINE. If you can't even 2HKO neutral threats with your STAB move AFTER HAVING SET UP, you suck as a sweeper.

I don't think there are many reasons not to allow physical ice moves - the main 'problem' with the more powerful ones (Ice Fang +) is that you get the KO on Hydreigon at +1, which you could say is undesirable, although I do believe believe that a Necturna with boosted speed, attack, and an ice move somewhere will be very rare. Ice Shard should be allowed either way, probably, as it misses many KOs, and I don't believe the priority thing is at all an issue, as it doesn't 2HKO Hydreigon unboosted or OHKO boosted. Generally, Ice doesn't offer very much over Rock, which I still think would be the move of choice here, but with Rock available I don't think there's much of a reason to disallow Ice. Remember, physical boosting sets still have horrible trouble with steels, and are likely to be somewhat unpopular, and Ice doesn't actually remedy that at all (I'd rather run Stone Edge for the somewhat powerful neutral hits against Heatran and stuff...).

So yeah, allow Ice Shard, Ice Fang and Ice Punch. Dunno about Icicle Crash. It doesn't really grant any extra kills but there is that nasty flinch chance.

Special Ice moves (even Frost Breath, base 80 is a good number) I would still like to disallow, as I can easily see them being used over Shadow Ball on a three-move sweeping set (Frost Breath / Hp Ground / Energy Ball / Quiver Dance is much better than Shadow Ball / Hp Fighting in my opinion), and I reckon they would affect our Sketch move choice quite significantly on special sets.

I don't thing TPunch is really an issue. It's a very weak move, and the only one of the main four counters we hit with it is Skarmory, for whom we need +1, Life Orb and Adamant in order to even 2HKO. The coverage it grants is pretty meagre and overlaps with Grass, and base 75 is pretty terrible for a neutral hit - Heatran, Jirachi and Hydreigon still lol at it. It has the same trouble that physical ice moves have - low power, poor combined coverage, general badness of physical boosting sets. I don't honestly believe it would really be used anywhere other than Choice Band filler (which doesn't 2HKO skarm). Who was it that suggested TPunch would ever be used over Leaf Blade, anyway? That is ridiculous. Definitely allow ThunderPunch and Thunder Fang.

You only have to send in a check for, say, Quiver Dance... oh no, it's Gear Shift, and you now have to switch in on a boosted attack!

The checks are the same.

 

[capefeather]

The other thing about Power Whip is, without it, you're going to have physical sets with three or four moves with roughly the same power. I think that, especially for Choice Band sets, this would make Necturna more volatile as far as prediction goes (since there's less of a cost for being wrong), and I'm not sure I'd like to have a bunch of coverage moves allowed if the user would have few qualms with aiming an Ice-type move at Hydreigon.

I actually don't think it would be all that bad if special Necturna doesn't use both of her STABs.