An important note I want to add to this discussion: CSHydreigon hits 486 Speed if Timid, whereas Jolly CAP 2 hits 574 Speed after a single Shift Gear assuming 252 EVs on both. This means that Choice Scarf Hydreigon cannot respond to a Shift Gear CAP 2 that has the capacity to OHKO Hydreigon. Furthermore, consider the weakest non-priority Ice-type move and what it does to the CS Hydreigon it now outspeeds: 252 Jolly Life Orb CAP 2 +1 Ice Fang vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Scarf Hydreigon: 87.7% - 103.7% Boom. Headshot (with SR). Now I don't want this to be the limiting factor and all, but I think that many of you are not looking at the whole picture when you're considering your stances. If Ice Fang can do this, any stronger Ice-type move maims. For the record, if you were thinking about Dragonite... 252 Jolly Life Orb CAP 2 +1 Ice Fang vs. vs. Adamant Leftovers Dragonite : 168.4% - 199.4% 252 Jolly Life Orb CAP 2 +1 Ice Fang vs. vs. Adamant Leftovers Dragonite : 84.2% - 99.7% (Multiscale) 252 Jolly Life Orb CAP 2 +1 Ice Fang vs. 252/0 Adamant Leftovers Dragonite : 140.9% - 166.8% 252 Jolly Life Orb CAP 2 +1 Ice Fang vs. 252/0 Adamant Leftovers Dragonite : 70.5% - 88.4% (Multiscale) Nearly able to KO offensive Dragonite with the weakest non-priority physical Ice-type through Multiscale? That says a lot. Defensive Dragon Dance survives only if Multiscale remains unbroken. Don't even make me calculate Ice Punch because it gets more depressing than that. Lastly, remember that because Shift Gear is +2 Speed, CAP 2 could actually be doing everything with an Adamant nature. That makes this even more impressive number-wise. CAP 2 is strong. +1/+2 boosters are strong. Let that be known when you qualify your stances. I think that physical Ice has proven itself controversial enough for me. I have moved Ice Fang, Ice Shard, and Ice Punch to controversial and disallowed everything else in Ice-type attacks. Note that Ice Shard is weaker than Ice Fang, and since Ice Fang barely makes KOs at +1, Ice Shard is probably not going to be that great even with a Choice Band. It'd be handy for revenging slightly weakened Dragons and Gliscor and that's about it. Still, I think this physical Ice discussion has showed how controversial it is and I'm still personally torn.