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CAP 2 Pre-evo - Part 4 - Stat spread submissions

Discussion in 'CAP Pre-Evolution Workshop' started by capefeather, Feb 21, 2012.

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  1. capefeather

    capefeather YOU CAN'T STOP ROB
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    Necturna was never good with numbers.

    This stage is a bit different from others because of how the flavor and competitive values intertwine. This means that submitters can and should provide explanations of competitive as well as flavor aspects, which presumably would include LC-relevant evidence such as damage calculations. It should be noted that NFE stats tend to be significantly lower than the stats of their evolutions, but on the other hand, NFE stats have very wide variation. I'll provide a rule of thumb: If it's too strong for Little Cup, it's too strong. From my recollection, Meditite is the only Pokémon banned from LC that was not once a fully evolved species.

    Base stat spreads were crucial to get right with Necturna due to the Sketch concept. While base stats for the pre-evo aren't as pressing (since this is all for fun and flavor), the fact that it does have Sketch (since Sketch is an egg move rather than an event or tutor move) should be strongly considered when submitting a spread. I'm not saying the stats should suck (though it is a distinct possibility), but it can be easy to transform the pre-evo into a monstrosity by Little Cup standards, just from the base stat spread. The "For Little Cup stat junkies" section below is very, very relevant to making a good stat spread.

    For Little Cup stat junkies

    This is ripped from the previous pre-evo stat spread OP X(

    For reference, these are the neutral-nature thresholds at which a level 5 Pokemon reaches a higher stat. On the left is the raw stat hit and on the right is the base stat used to achieve that new threshold. Note that for different base stats, the EV requirements to hit higher stat thresholds are different. While I don't expect CAP1's pre-evo to be too competitively focused, I do expect stat spread submitters to keep this in mind and display it in their submission posts.

    HP
    17: 5 (Minimum)
    18: 15
    19: 25
    20: 35
    21: 45
    22: 55
    23: 65
    24: 75
    25: 85
    26: 95
    27: 105
    28: 115
    29: 125
    30: 135

    ATK/DEF/SPA/SPD/SPE
    7: 5 (Minimum)
    8: 15
    9: 25
    10: 35
    11: 45
    12: 55
    13: 65
    14: 75
    15: 85
    16: 95
    17: 105
    18: 115
    19: 125
    20: 135

    NOTE: These base stats all require 236 EVs to get +3.

    Like I mentioned, consider a base Attack stat of 75. This results in 14 Attack for a level 5 pre-evo, with 236 Atk EVs needed to hit 17. A base Attack stat of 80, on the other hand, still starts at 14 Attack, but requires only 196 Atk EVs to hit 17. If we extend this further, you notice that the base Attack stat of 85 results in a flat 15 Attack. It takes 156 Atk EVs to raise that stat to 17. See how this trend works? Every 5 point increment of a base Stat requires 40 fewer EVs to hit the same effective stat. This is important to keep in mind, because the fewer EVs it takes to hit a desired stat, the more EVs can be invested elsewhere. If you choose weird non-divisible-by-5 base Stat numbers, the rule above still applies, it just isn't going from 236>196>156 anymore, it's somewhere in-between.

    CAP 2's final product can be seen here.

    CAP 2 pre-evo so far:

    [​IMG]

    Typing: Grass / Ghost
    Abilities: Anticipation / Telepathy
  2. Spork

    Spork

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    HP: 44
    Atk: 75
    Def: 65
    SpA: 70
    SpD: 75
    Spe: 31
    BST: 360

    Compared to Necturna's (open)

    HP: 44 -(+20)-> 64
    Atk: 75 -(+45)-> 120
    Def: 65 -(+35)-> 100
    SpA: 70 -(+15)-> 85
    SpD: 75 -(+45)-> 120
    Spe: 31 -(+50)-> 81
    BST: 360 --> 570

    I know we're only designing her for a hypothetical LC meta, but I thought I'd go into a bit of detail anyway

    Notable points: (open)

    -Decided to somewhat equal out SpA and Atk - this is similar to the Breloom line in a way. I feel, by looking at most of the current designs, that we won't have a prevo that has as many physically offensive design features as Necturna, what with her fanged dress and large thorny vinepiece. It's less relevant to keep them different at this level, as large base stat differences lead to small actual stat differences. Still, they remain a stat apart.
    -While she has fairly high SpA, her speed is very low, low enough that she cannot reach 21 speed at +1, thereby limiting the usefulness of Quiver Dance. She also cannot outspeed scarfers such as Gastly at +2, meaning Gastly and others are fine revenge killers after Shell Smash. Shell Smash would be a worry otherwise, as her STABS and HP Fire can score neutral hits on basically everything 'cept Houndour.
    -High BST, on par with Larvesta - justified by insanely high BST of evolution. I think the Volcarona line and Necturna line have certain similarities - both undergo a single evolution, both have high BSTs, and both have certain pseudo-legendary qualities - so it's a good bar to hit.
    -Makes a good eviolite mon with higher Def and SpD and low Spe, encouraging the Sketching of support moves. Has a really cool defensive niche.

    Level 5 Stats (open)

    HP: 20 (0 EVs), 23 (228 EVs)
    Atk: 14 (0 EVs), 17 (236 EVs,) 18 (+nature)
    Def: 13 (0 EVs)), 16 (236 EVs), 17 (+nature)
    SpA: 13 (0 EVs), 16 (196 EVs), 17 (+nature)
    SpD: 14 (0 EVs), 17 (236 EVs), 18 (+nature)
    Spe: 9 (0 EVs), 12 (188 EVs), 13 (+nature)
  3. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight Well-shuffled and flush
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    I'll take a crack at this.

    Final Submission:

    34 / 70 / 53 / 46 / 70 / 42 = 315

    Stat Difference:
    -30 / -50 / -47 / -39 / -50 / -39

    HP: 19 - 23 (240 to Max)
    Atk: 13 - 16 (196 to Max)
    Def: 11 - 15 (252 to Max)
    SpA: 11 - 14 (228 to Max)
    SpD: 13 - 16 (196 to Max)
    Spe: 10 - 13 (180 to Max)

    Potential EVs (open)

    Offensive:
    Mixed physical bias:
    Naive 19 / 16 / 12 / 12 / 12 / 14
    Naughty 19 / 17 / 12 / 12 / 12 / 13
    508 - 180 (Max Spe) - 196 (Max Atk) - 72 (+1 SpA w/ any Hidden Power) - 36 (+1 SpD) - 12 (+1 Def) w/ 12 Left over.

    Mixed special bias:
    Rash 19 / 14 / 12 / 15 / 12 / 13
    Naive 19 / 14 / 12 / 14 / 12 / 14
    508 - 180 (Max Spe) - 236 (Max SpA w/any Hidden Power) - 36 (+1 Atk) - 36 (+1 SpD) - 12 (+1 Def) w/8 left over.

    Bulky LO Quiver Dance:
    Bold 19 / 11 / 16 / 12 / 13 / 13
    Timid 19 / 11 / 15 / 12 / 13 / 14
    508 - 180 (Max Spe) - 252 (Max Def) - 72 (+1 SpA w/ any Hidden Power) w/ 4 left over.

    Bulky Eviolite Quiver Dance:
    Calm 23 / 11 / 12 (18) / 12 / 14 (21) / 13
    Timid 23 / 11 / 12 (18) / 12 / 13 (19) / 14
    180 (Max Spe) - 240 (Max HP) - 72 (+1 SpA w/ any Hidden Power) - 12 (+1 Def) w/ 4 left over.

    Defensive:
    Physical defensive bias:
    Impish 23 / 13 / 16 / 9 / 13 / 10
    Relaxed 23 / 13 / 16 / 11 / 13 / 9
    508 - 240 (Max HP) - 252 (Max Def) w/ 16 left over (any Hidden Power).

    Special defensive bias:
    Bold 23 / 11 / 12 / 12 / 16 / 10
    Relaxed 23 / 13 / 12 / 12 / 16 / 9
    508 - 240 (Max HP) - 196 (Max SpD) - 72 (+1 SpA w/ Any Hidden Power) w/ 0 left over.

    Mixed bulky defense:
    Sassy 23 / 14 / 12 / 11 / 17 / 9
    Adamant 23 / 15 / 12 / 9 / 16 / 10
    508 - 240 (Max HP) - 196 (Max SpD) - 36 (+1 Atk) - 12 (+1 Def) w/ 24 left over (any Hidden Power).


    Reasoning:

    I think one of the coolest things about Necturna is that even defensive sets can pull off a major offensive attack. For Little Cup, this means being able to get down to 19 HP to abuse Life Orb. 34 HP does this while still allowing for sets that will max HP and utilize the prevo's decent base defenses. Incidentally, every Hidden Power it might want to use (Fighting, Fire) all have IV variants that can preserve the maximum 15 defense if so desired.

    I ripped most of the stat numbers off of Sewaddle, which has 53 Atk, 70 Def, and 42 Spe, but the BST is equivalent to starters like Bulbasaur and Chikorita. Our Necturna Prevo can get to 14 Speed with a positive nature if it wants to use any of the +1 Spe boosters to outrun the meta or run Choice Scarf, which puts it in line with Necturna which needs a positive nature to outrun Base 130 Pokemon. Additionally, it needs to run +Spe to outrun Timid Scarf Gastly (Though at 13 it can outrun Modest Scarf Gastly at +2, reaching 26 to Gastly's 25). To be perfectly honest though, with weaknesses to Shadow Sneak, Ice Shard, and Sucker Punch, our prevo is already fairly revenge prone.

    In general I just wanted the prevo to fall along the lines of a somewhat "normal" Pokemon. Ghosts in Little Cup tend to have low BSTs, while Grassers sit around 310-320 because of all the starters. It keeps Necturna's qualities, but doesn't do so in a way that overpowers its tier.
  4. srk1214

    srk1214 is a giant squid of anger
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    Wish I could have put more data/analysis into this, but I just didn't have the time.

    Final Submission

    HP: 43
    Atk: 48
    Def: 65
    SpA: 48
    SpD: 76
    Spe: 80

    BST: 360

    Necturna has low base HP to begin with, so the Prevo will have even lower HP, naturally. Since pretty much nothing can work in LC with such low base HP, I realize that in a hypothetical LC meta the Prevo would almost certainly be used offensively. As such, in order to not break the meta, the Prevo requires to either have very poor speed or mediocre attacking stats. I chose to make the speed only one point lower than Necturna's since that is the case with the only two other Fully Evolved Pokemon with 81 base speed (Gyarados and Milotic: both Magikarp and Feebas have base 80 speed.) Therefore, I had to make the attacking stats quite mediocre to prevent boosting sets from sweeping so easily (with team support.) I think the base 80 speed also encourages possible support sets with Spore. Bulk is comparable to Swablu's, who can function defensively in LC.

    Feel free to correct me if I am wrong on any of these. I am not the best at calculating stats:

    HP: 20 - 24 (252 to Max) But can get down to 19 with few IVs and 0 EVs for LO abusal.
    Atk: 11 - 15 (212 to Max)
    Def: 13 - 17 (236 to Max)
    SpA: 11 - 15 (212 to Max)
    SpD: 14 - 18 (228 to Max)
    Spe: 14 - 18 (196 to Max)

    Obviously hinging on movepool (open)

    Prevo @ Life Orb
    Naughty Nature (+Atk -SpD)
    IVs: 3 / 31 / 30 / 30 / 31 / 30
    EVs: 212 Atk / 216 SpA / 40 Spe
    (Gives stats: 19 HP / 15 Atk / 13 Def / 14 SpA / 12 SpA / 15 Spe) - After one Shell Smash, reaches 30 Speed, enough to tie with +Spe Choice Scarf Elekid (which isn't used, really. +SpA is preferred) and +Spe Choice Scarf Diglett (which is occasionally used.) Outspeeds all of the rest of Choice Scarfed LC.

    Shell Smash
    Power Whip
    Shadow Sneak
    Hidden Power Fire (yes, power 70)

    After one Shell Smash, Prevo reaches 30 Spe, as mentioned, along with 30 Atk and 28 SpA. Those stats, combined with this moveset with decent luck 2HKOes the entire LC metagame with Rocks support. However, there are several solid checks (namely Vullaby on the bulky side and pretty much anything offensive that can survive a hit and hit back will KO.) However, Prevo is not necessarily the easiest thing to set up. Against many walls, Prevo would risk being Toxiced, Paralyzed, or Burned, all of which would limit Prevo's sweeping tremendously. Prevo is also susceptible to all forms of entry hazards. All in all, this set is certainly theatening, but hardly broken. As for EM's assertion that Eviolite is always better, I would say that Eviolite is preferrable certainly on a DD or QD set, but Shell Smash LO is massively powerful. Up to the user. This is the only set for which I had time to fully investigate EVs etc.
  5. jas61292

    jas61292 used substitute
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    I'll try my hand at this

    HP: 46
    Atk: 75
    Def: 65
    SpA: 60
    SpD: 75
    Spe: 49
    BST: 370

    I honestly don't know much about LC, so I can't really give much hypothetical competitive reasoning, but I certainly think this spread works well from a flavor standpoint.

    Necturna has an absurdly high BST. There is no denying that. I did not want to have too big of a gap between Necturna and its prevo, but at the same time, I don't want this little guy breaking any records. My personal goal was to have a BST somewhat higher than Growlithe (the prevo of the next highest BST Pokemon after Necturna, [excluding Archeops, due to its hindering ability]), but still keeping it well below Ponyta (the highest BST unevolved Pokemon that never was a single stage Pokemon). Anywhere between 360 and 390 would really be fine for this, it just so happened that I ended up at 370.

    As for the individual stats, for the most part I compared Necturna's individual stats to other Grass and Ghost evolved Pokemon with similar stats and looked at their unevolved forms. Additionally, I wanted to keep the overall form of the stats similar to Necturna. Like Necturna, the Attack and Special Defense are equal, and the overall ordering is still Atk=SpD>Def>SpA>Spe>HP. One other thing I did with the stats is kept the look similar. On Necturna, both attacks and defenses are multiples of 5, and the HP and Speed are 1 off of a multiple of 5, but in opposite directions. All those things are still true with this stat spread, though I changed which of HP/Speed was above/below the 5 to add in some change. I think this gives it a good connection to its evolution, and makes it feel like a realistic spread.
  6. Engineer Pikachu

    Engineer Pikachu Good morning, you bastards!
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    Why not.

    FINAL SUBMISSION

    44 / 70 / 50 / 50 / 85 / 61 / 360

    Comparison w/ Necturna
    64 / 120 / 100 / 85 / 120 / 81 / 570
    -20 / -50 / -50 / -35 / -35 / -20 / -210

    HP: 20 - 24 (4 / 84 / 164 / 244)
    Atk: 13 - 16 (36 / 116 / 196)
    Def: 11 - 14 (36 / 116 / 196)
    SpA: 11 - 14 (36 / 116 / 196)
    SpD: 15 - 18 (76 / 156 / 236)
    Spe: 12 - 15 (28 / 108 / 188)

    As you can see, the progression from Miniturna to Necturna is fairly linear—physical stats are reduced by fifty, special ones by thirty-five, and speed and HP by twenty each; this makes it such that while the emphasis on Atk and SpD are still there, it's somewhat reduced, which is an effect that I've seen in other Pokemon spreads. This progression is somewhat justified in terms of flavor—when Miniturna evolves into Necturna, its special power (Anticipation -> Forewarn) is augmented, and its physical capabilities are also enhanced ?_?

    In terms of competitive play, this is actually quite balanced. A 14 Spe set is easily attainable, and 16 Atk is far from bad, especially with the assumed Power Whip and a potential physical coverage move. Despite the small investment needed to get to 21 HP which may lead people to think that Life Orb isn't so great, it doesn't really make a difference until after three Life Orb hits, and the bulk might be just what Miniturna needs to switch on something. This spread also looks somewhat like that of Frillish, except with Attack and Special Attack switched around, which makes it a great special wall as well as a decent attacker.

    To put it in simpler terms, this spread has good offenses without being too great, keeping sufficient physical bulk and great special bulk. Eviolite gives Miniturna fairly good bulk, which is one of the key qualities to Necturna's stat spread. 70 Attack is good but it's not overwhelmingly so; although this is potentially Scraggy-power, running a boosting move requires the Sketch slot, which means your rather limited coverage is all you have—this leads me to believe that 70 Atk is not broken on Miniturna.

    For EV spreads, there are a few speed benchmarks. 21 Spe ensures that no non-Scarfed Pokemon outspeeds you, and 14 Spe means that no non-Scarfed Pokemon outspeeds you providing you have a Scarf. 31 Spe makes it such that no Pokemon without a +2 boost or higher outspeeds you; however, no 20 Spe mon runs Scarf nowadays so 30 Spe is usually safe enough.

    Possible EV Spreads (open)

    SET NAME
    XXX Stat / XXX Stat / XXX Stat / Nature
    Stat / Stat / Stat / Stat / Stat / Stat
    [E] Stat / Stat / Stat / Stat / Stat / Stat (Eviolite—some sets only)

    Choice Scarf (Physical)
    164 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 108 Spe / Adamant
    23 HP / 17 Atk / 12 Def / 9 SpA / 15 SpD / 14 Spe

    Choice Scarf (Special)
    164 HP / 36 Def / 196 SpA / 108 Spe / Modest
    23 HP / 11 Atk / 12 Def / 15 SpA / 15 SpD / 14 Spe

    Bulky Shift Gear
    244 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 28 Spe / Adamant
    24 HP / 17 Atk / 12 Def / 9 SpA / 15 SpD / 13 Spe
    [E] 24 HP / 17 Atk / 18 Def / 9 SpA / 22 SpD / 13 Spe

    Fast Shift Gear
    196 Atk / 36 Def / 76 SpD / 188 Spe / Adamant
    20 HP / 17 Atk / 12 Def / 9 SpA / 16 SpD / 15 Spe
    [E] 20 HP / 17 Atk / 18 Def / 9 SpA / 24 SpD / 15 Spe
    [SG+E] 20 HP / 25 Atk / 18 Def / 9 SpA / 24 SpD / 30 Spe

    Bulky Quiver Dance
    244 HP / 196 Def / 36 SpA / 28 Spe / Bold
    24 HP / 11 Atk / 15 Def / 12 SpA / 15 SpD / 14 Spe
    [E] 24 HP / 11 Atk / 22 Def / 12 SpA / 22 SpD / 14 Spe
    [QD+E] 24 HP / 11 Atk / 22 Def / 18 SpA / 33 SpD / 21 Spe

    Toxic Spiker / General Bulk
    164 HP / 36 Atk / 196 Def / 76 SpD / 28 Spe / Impish
    23 HP / 14 Atk / 15 Def / 9 SpA / 16 SpD / 14 Spe
    [E] 23 HP / 14 Atk / 22 Def / 9 SpA / 24 SpD / 14 Spe

    Obviously, other set-up sets (Shell Smash ; Coil) as well as general sets (Spinblocker, Rapid Spin) can work, but their spreads mimic these by so much you can just alter a few EVs. As such, they are not included.

    With this spread, Miniturna can run a variety of different sets without being too good. It becomes fairly bulky with some investment and Eviolite, and can also be rather destructive with other sets. Again, though, you can't do everything at once.
  7. zyrefredric

    zyrefredric

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    My submission for Scratchet's stat spread before was so outside-the-box that I decided to have a tamer submission this time around. So, I got this stat spread using a very simple method. Just look at it, it's easy to see how I got them. ^^

    64 HP / 120 Atk / 100 Def / 85 SpA / 120 SpD / 81 Spe (Total 570) — Necturna's stats
    24 HP / 80 Atk / 60 Def / 45 SpA / 80 SpD / 41 Spe (Total 330) — Necturna's baby sis!


    Necturna and her pre-evo have the same characteristics, high attack and special defense. This allows Miniturna either to have physical offensive presence, or good special bulk. The physical defense is acceptable also. It has a really low HP stat, which coupled with Pain Split and Leech Seed isn't that bad.

    For the LC players, maybe these values amounts to something for you:

    Level 5 LC stats
    24 HP: 19 - 22 (228)
    80 Atk: 14 - 17 (196) 18+
    60 Def: 12 - 15 (196) 16+
    45 SpA: 11 - 14 (236) 15+
    80 SpD: 14 - 17 (196) 18+
    41 Spe: 10 - 13 (188) 14+

    Physical Sweepiness (PS): 78.4694
    Special Sweepiness (SS): 59.5334
    Physical Tankiness (PT): 48.8548
    Special Tankiness (ST): 70.1350
    Base Stat Ratings (BSR): 106.3511
  8. Birkal

    Birkal Caw.
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    Hmm. I really like how Spork went a little outside of the box to equalize offensive stats. This does give a bit more flexibility for a pre-evo design to go whichever way it prefers, like whether the artists wants to add fangs or not. Deck Knight and srk1214 both seem to have knowledge on Little Cup; however, I would hope that they'd provide a little more flavor reasoning for their stats. Otherwise, all of the stats are looking pretty good! Know that providing some calculations will also help sway some voters. Keep working at it!
  9. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    32 / 72 / 62 / 75 / 88 / 61 (Total: 390)

    Level 5 stats
    HP: 19-22 (20 / 100 / 180)
    Attack: 13-16 (20 / 100 / 180)
    Defense: 12-15 (20 / 100 / 180)
    Special Attack: 14-17 (76 / 156 / 236)
    Special Defense: 15-18 (52 / 132 / 212)
    Speed: 12-15 (28 / 108 / 188)

    Potential EV Spreads/Stats:

    Shell Smash (open)

    EV's: 180 Attack / 132 Special Defense / 188 Speed
    Nature: Adamant
    Item: Life Orb / Eviolite
    Life Orb:
    Before a Shell Smash: 19 HP / 17 Attack / 12 Defense / 13 Special Attack / 17 Special Defense / 15 Speed
    After a Shell Smash: 19 HP / 34 Attack / 8 Defense / 26 Special Attack / 11 Special Defense / 30 Speed
    Eviolite:
    Before a Shell Smash: 19 HP / 17 Attack / 18 Defense / 13 Special Attack / 25 Special Defense / 15 Speed
    After a Shell Smash: 19 HP / 34 Attack / 12 Defense / 26 Special Attack / 17 Special Defense / 30 Speed


    Coil (open)

    EV's: 180 HP / 132 Special Defense / 188 Speed
    Nature: Jolly
    Item: Eviolite
    Before a Coil: 22 HP / 13 Attack / 18 Defense / 13 Special Attack / 26 Special Defense / 16 Speed
    After a Coil: 22 HP / 19 Attack / 26 Defense / 13 Special Attack / 26 Special Defense / 16 Speed


    Quiver Dance (open)

    EV's: 20 HP / 20 Defense / 236 Special Attack / 188 Speed
    Nature: Timid
    Item: Eviolite
    Before a Quiver Dance: 20 HP / 12 Attack / 19 Defense / 17 Special Attack / 24 Special Defense / 16 Speed
    After a Quiver Dance: 20 HP / 12 Attack / 19 Defense / 25 Special Attack / 36 Special Defense / 24 Speed


    LO/Choice Band (open)

    EV's: 180 Attack / 132 Special Defense / 188 Speed
    Nature: Jolly / Adamant
    Stats: 19 HP / 16/17 Attack / 12 Defense / 13 Special Attack / 17 Special Defense / 16/15 Speed


    Defensive (open)

    EV's: 180 HP / 20 Attack / 20 Defense / 212 Special Defense / 28 Speed
    Nature: Careful
    Stats: 22 HP / 14 Attack / 19 Defense / 13 Special Attack / 26 Special Defense / 13 Speed


    I just posted these sets to give you guys a taste of what little Necturna might be able to do with these stats.

    Now, when I was making the stat spread I first looked straight to Speed and made sure that it could get up to at least 16 Speed. 16 Speed allows little Necturna to be able to outspeed most slower LC threats while getting outsped by most offensive threats. I wanted to make it so that it was bulky enough to survive various hits that may come its way, but also low enough to be able to easily get defeated from priority if using Shell Smash. Murkrow makes quick work of most sets, being able to KO Shell Smash variants with Sucker Punch. Croagunk also does pretty well. Necturna is weak to quite a lot of priority, so this part wasn't too much of a problem. Next I wanted to make sure it wasn't too powerful. Shell Smash Necturna fails to OHKO threats such as defensive Gligar, Bronzor, Porygon, Houndour, and Lickitung. After that, I nerfed / boosted a few things until I felt comfortable with it. I like when Pokemon in LC have very flexible EV's, which is why many of my stat values end with the number 2.
  10. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
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    OK, I'm going to attempt to submit a spread for this, because I feel like I could do a pretty good job!!!

    49 HP / 55 Atk / 60 Def / 50 SpA / 75 SpD / 51 Spe -- (340 BST)

    Stats:
    HP: 21 - 24 [44/104/184]
    Atk: 12 - 15 (16+) [76/156/236]
    Def: 12 - 15 (16+) [36/116/196]
    SpA: 11 - 14 (15+) [36/116/196]
    SpD: 14 - 17 (18+) [76/156/236]
    Spe: 11 - 14 (15+) [44/104/184]
    (this is more for my benefit than anything else lol)

    My major goal with this spread was to retain the defensive attributes that Necturna has without making it too powerful. I didn't want Miniturna to end up like Scraggy, a Pokemon that can easily nab a Dragon Dance or two and then sweep due to it's natural 50/70/70 bulk. A lot of the spreads posted so far give this Pokemon way too much bulk for its Attack stat, making it far too easy to set up a Shell Smash or Dragon Dance or whatever and then decimate the opponent. A low HP stat doesn't balance out giving defensive stats in the 60s and 70s, because Eviolite gives out too much of a boost for the extra 2 or 3 HP to matter. Miniturna even has arguably better typing to pull off a boosting set, as it can set up on the common Fighting- and Water-types much better than Scraggy can, so giving it stats like that is just begging for it to be a powerhouse.

    This meant when designing the spread, I had to choose between giving it subpar sweeping stats or subpar defensive stats. But since my main goal from the outset was to retain the bulky attributes of Necturna, subpar sweeping stats it was. I was hesitant to use anything above 62 Attack, because then it can hit 17 Attack (which is what most Scraggy run! though it can hit 18), and I felt that was too high for something with Miniturna's movepool/potential. With 16 Attack, it can still nab KOes against offensive Pokemon, but can be checked safely by bulkier Pokemon. For instance, a +2 Power Whip will always OHKO the standard Flying Gem Acrobatics Gligar (as well as the standard Scraggy, standard Mienfoo, etc), but will not OHKO Eviolite Gligar (and Eviolite Porygon, etc etc etc). That Gligar will do 81.82% - 109.09% back to a -1 Eviolite Miniturna with Aerial Ace. I purposefully made attacks like that not OHKO at full health, but do just enough so that even with a tiny bit of prior damage like SR Miniturna will be KOed. The same goes for things like Porygon's Ice Beam, which does 72.73% - 90.91%. This gives the Miniturna user a chance at beating some of the defensive Pokemon that check it if they can play smart enough (or at least, if the opponent is dumb enough not to attack), something I think should be rewarded in Pokemon.

    I left the Speed at 51 to give Miniturna 14/15 Speed, just enough to pull off some sort of Gear Shift/Quiver Dance/Scarf set (at +1 Speed, 14 speeders outspeed all non scarfed Pokemon), giving it some variety. At +2, 14 Speed Miniturna will be faster than everything bar Drilbur in the sand/Scarf 19+ speeders. I think flavor-wise 51 Base Speed fits very well with Necturna's 81 Base Speed, as they are pretty much equivalent in their respective metagames. Any more speed is just unnecessary, there is nothing common in the 15/16/17 range that Miniturna requires to go first against. It's mostly just Mienfoo/Chinchou/the rare Houndour in that area, and the former two get royally shit on while Houndour will always fuck you regardless.

    As a final note, with Base 49 HP you can get down to 19 HP, although I don't know why you would want to. That's honestly pretty overrated, especially on something that would otherwise be bulky. Eviolite is just plain better.

    Also PS: Vulpix and Carvanha are also banned!! ;)
  11. capefeather

    capefeather YOU CAN'T STOP ROB
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    Wrapping this up 24 hours from this post. EDIT: Or rather, I'll get to it when I get to it.
  12. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    I must point out that I really love the flow of EM's logic in his stat spread. He manages to hit all of the important flavor notes, while simultaneously making an incredibly potent argument competitively for his stats in the LC metagame. He offers some key calculations, and then follows them up with sound logic about previous damage and the ilk. He also offers critique in the form of Eviolite discussion, which is absolutely important when talking about pre-evo stuff. All around, I think it is the most solid stat spread posted thus far, and I think he emphasizes exactly what we're looking for in the pre-evo stat spread stage. Great job, EM!
  13. WhiteMagic

    WhiteMagic

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    44 / 80 / 55 / 45 / 80 / 51 / 360

    Comparison w/ Necturna:
    64 / 120 / 100 / 85 / 120 / 81 / 570
    -20 / -40 / -45 / -40 / -40 / -30 / -210

    I took Pikachu's stats and adjusted them a tad. I feel as Miniturna's stats should more reflect Necturna's stats in the form of slightly higher SpD and lower speed. The reason Magikarp and Feebas have 80 Spe is because they're borderline "useless". Miniturna has a lot more potential and to prevent it from too easily sweeping that its Speed needs to be kept at bay. I also up'ed its Atk and SpD so both grow by 40, and that they are clearly the highest stats, as Necturna's highest stats are also Atk and SpD.
  14. capefeather

    capefeather YOU CAN'T STOP ROB
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