CAP 22 CAP 22 - Part 8 - Moveset Discussion

[Deck Knight]

As a reminder while we finish up the art polls,, Art has no impact on movepool selection.
- - - - -

Welcome to the Moveset Discussion. Since this is the third project using our new moveset discussion, it is important to make sure you are familiar with all the rules outlined in this post. Be sure to pay attention to what our movepool leader Deck Knight has to say in this thread, as he will be leading the discussion and making the calls on which movesets we will ultimately be going with.

In this stage, we are determining the required and disallowed competitive moves by creating a list of approved movesets. The movesets will be decided based on the competitive needs and limitations of this project. We are not submitting full movepools at this time. There will be a later stage for movepool submissions (level-up sets, egg moves, etc) once the required and disallowed moves have been determined via the accepted movesets.

Moveset Discussion Rules & Guidelines

There should be four kinds of posts in the thread:

• Moveset Submissions
• Moveset Edits/Option Submissions
• General Commentary
• Section Leader/Topic Leader Announcements/Updates

This means that no moves can be suggested or commented on unless they are part of a full competitive moveset submission or suggested as a additional option for one or more previous movesets. Any recommendations to disallow certain moves should only be in reference to moves contained in previously posted movesets.

The general flow of this thread should go like this:

1. People post moveset submissions in a prescribed format (see below)
2. Other people suggest to add/remove moves or other options to previously posted movesets (see below)
3. Other people propose edits to the descriptive information with previously posted movesets
4. Other people comment on the competitive pros and cons of previously posted movesets, additions/removals, and proposed edits
5. Continuously over the course of the thread, the movepool leader updates the first post in the thread with the "currently accepted" movesets and other information related to the status of the intelligent community consensus (see below)

By the end of this discussion thread, we should have the following outputs:

• The top post in the thread (maintained by the Movepool Leader) will contain a list of all edited, approved movesets
• The top post will list controversial movesets and/or optional moves that need to be voted on by the community

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Moveset Submissions

Movesets should be posted in the following format:

Moveset Submission

Name: Choice Band
Move 1: Flare Blitz
Move 2: Sucker Punch
Move 3: U-turn
Move 4: Stone Edge
Ability: Guts
Item: Choice Band
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Nature: Jolly

• Because of CAP X's Fire typing, Flare Blitz does a lot of damage.
• Sucker Punch allows it priority, as well as the ability to handle Slowking.
• Stone Edge allows it to OHKO Talonflame
• U-Turn can be used to scout, as well as abuse predicted switches.
• Choice Band is used to amplify damage, and fulfil CAP X's role as a wallbreaker
• In case CAP X gets hit by status conditions, Guts raises its damage output to even higher levels.

Copyable template

[B]Moveset Submission[/B]

Name:
Move 1:
Move 2:
Move 3:
Move 4:
Ability: (optional)
Item: (optional)
EVs: (optional)
Nature: (optional)
[LIST]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[/LIST]

Please keep to the above format so the movepool leader can easily see which posts in the thread are proposing new moveset submissions, and can easily locate the information when updating the top post in the thread.

Ability, Item, EVs, and Nature are optional. All that is required are four moves, a name, and some descriptive information (in bullet form).

Any suggested moveset posted without any reasonable description will be deleted by the moderators. People should not spam movesets, post without checking the movesets already submitted, or post movesets without thinking them through.

Although we are not posting movesets in the full C&C analysis format, you should generally adhere to C&C standards where it makes sense. While there will not be excessively strict moderation on this, use common sense. Don't get too slash-happy with moves, no stupid names, use proper spelling and grammar, etc. These movesets will be put on the CAP subsite immediately at the end of the CAP for the playtest.

If you are unsure of the optimal ability, item, EVs, or nature -- you can leave it out and it can be edited in later over the course of the thread. By the end of the thread, every accepted moveset should be filled in completely. That doesn't mean we need to be 100% sure of every aspect of the moveset. It's fine if we go with our best guess and leave it to the playtest to optimize it.


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Moveset Edits/Option Submissions

Edits/options should be made by copying the most recent version of the moveset and description into an unattributed quote tags ([ QUOTE][ /QUOTE]). Then make any edits, additions, or replacements in bold text, removals should be in strike-through text. The most recent copy should taken from the top post or from the original submission post, depending on whichever one is most current.

Posters can and should comment on the reasoning and background for any proposed edits outside of Quote tags. Simple wording or spelling corrections do not need any explanation or commentary.

Additional move proposals must be made in the context of one or more movesets. The user cannot simply post "I suggest we add Taunt as an option to all non-choiced movesets", for example.


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Movepool Leader/Topic Leader Posts

The first post under the OP is reserved by the Movepool Leader, and will serve as the reference post for the current status of the discussion.

When the Movepool Leader determines that a moveset, option, or edit is accepted by intelligent community consensus, they will add/update a list of "Approved Movesets" in the first post. The Movepool Leader SHOULD NOT add every submission to the first post automatically, simply because it was posted in the thread. The Movepool Leader SHOULD NOT add a submission to the first post if it was not actively accepted by intelligent community consensus. "Lack of any response" is not the same as "acceptance". As with all CAP discussion threads, the leader should always use their best judgement.

If a proposal has received significant intelligent feedback (positive or negative), but it has not yet reached consensus, the Movepool leader should add it to an "Under Consideration" list in the first post. If the thread ends with controversial items that can't reach consensus, they will go to a community poll. In most cases, the "Under Consideration" list should be comprised of full movesets or additional option proposals. Edits to the description of most movesets, probably will not require extensive discussion or polling.

As the Movepool Leader makes updates to the first post, they should also post announcements in the thread indicating what they have added or updated. This will allow active discussion participants to easily track the progress of the thread. The Topic Leader should also post regular feedback in the thread, like every other competitive discussion.

---

CAP22 so far:

Typing: Fairy/Fighting
Abilities: Natural Cure / Aroma Veil
Stats: 84/78/86/115/88/119

Leadership Team:

cbrevan - Topic Leader
Elite Lord Sigma - Typing Leader
snake_rattler - Abilities Leader
Snobalt - Stats Leader
Deck Knight - Movepool Leader


Concept:

Name: Last Act of Defiance

General Description: A Pokemon that is defined by its use of the move Parting Shot.

Justification: Parting Shot is another move that's pretty amazing on paper, but its true usage has yet to be fully explored because it's only available to Pangoro. Pangoro is not the most viable Pokemon OU and is nearly unusable in CAP due to its 4x weakness to Fairy. Moreover, when I've used it in RU (prior it to being banned) and UU, I found myself clicking an attacking move more often than not. With the optimal Parting Shot user in the CAP metagame, we may be able to tap into this move's potential and figure out how it is best utilized. Maybe Last Act of Defiance will be a fast Pokemon that aims to keep up offensive momentum. Maybe it'll use the move like it would use Memento to help a teammate use a boosting move. Maybe it'll be a slow, bulky pivot intended to discourage switching. Maybe it'll do something completely different.

This falls under both actualization and archetype in terms of being a concept. In terms of actualization, it will teach us how to use Parting Shot "properly." Clearly, no other Pokemon, not even Pangoro, comes close to it. Well, users of U-turn, Volt Switch, and Memento come somewhat close, but even then, we'll be able to see what makes Parting Shot different from (and possibly better than) them. In terms of archetype, Last Act of Defiance will give not just the CAP metagame, but also the whole game of Pokemon, a utility Pokemon that we've never seen before, as Parting Shot was not (and still isn't) one of Pangoro's most important assets. Because Parting Shot has so many potential uses, a utility Pokemon such as this can be the ultimate team player for offensive and defensive archetypes alike.

Questions To Be Answered:
- Whether it's pivoting, offensive momentum, Memento-esque support, or something else, what is the "ideal" way to use Parting Shot? Why?
- Considering Pangoro rarely finds the time to use the move, how much should a Pokemon be willing to sacrifice another offensive option for Parting Shot?
- What makes Parting Shot different or similar from Volt Switch, U-turn, and Memento?
- Pangoro is definitely not the ideal Parting Shot user, so what does the ideal user look like?
- What strategies, whether they be certain Pokemon, playstyles, or other factors, will rise to prominence to combat a Parting Shot user?

 

[Deck Knight]

-Moveset submissions are currently Open -
Currently Accepted:

Name: Disruption-Shot
Move 1: Aura Sphere
Move 2: Moonblast
Move 3: Taunt / Encore
Move 4: Parting Shot
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid

Name: 3-Attack Parting Shot
Move 1: Moonblast
Move 2: Aura Sphere / Focus Blast
Move 3: Sludge Wave
Move 4: Parting Shot
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Choice Specs / Life Orb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid

Name: Mixed Offensive Pivot
Move 1: Parting Shot
Move 2: Moonblast
Move 3: Close Combat
Move 4: Energy Ball / Grass Knot / Giga Drain
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 204 Atk / 52 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive

Name: Parting Slumber
Move 1: Yawn
Move 2: Parting Shot
Move 3: Moonblast
Move 4: Aura Sphere
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid

Name: Wishful Thinking
Move 1: Moonblast
Move 2: Focus Blast / Hidden Power Ground
Move 3: Wish
Move 4: Parting Shot
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 232 HP / 92 SpA / 184 Spe
Nature: Timid

Under Consideration:

Name: Offensive Spikes
Move 1: Moonblast
Move 2: Parting Shot
Move 3: Aura Sphere / Focus Blast
Move 4: Spikes
Ability: Natural Cure / Aroma Veil
Item: Life Orb / Leftovers
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid

-Moonlight legality

Moves I want more discussion on:


Moves we have decided NOT to allow on sets so far:
- ALL +2/+3 Single Stat Boosters
- ALL Special Attack Boosters
- ALL Speed Boosters
- Permanent Status Condition Moves (except Toxic)
- Fire/Ground/Psychic/Rock/Water Typed Coverage
- U-turn/Volt Switch/Baton pass
- Reflect / Light Screen
- Knock Off
- Dark Pulse
- Shadow Ball
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Defog

 

[Deck Knight]

We're at the final competitive stage for our Pokemon, and our concept asks us to build around making a Pokemon that is "defined by its use of Parting Shot."

Over the course of the project we've discussed how to do this through our stats, and which abilities work well with the move. In this stage we're deciding which moves combine with Parting Shot to bring it into the foreground competitively.

Rather than start off by opening movesets for submission, I would instead like to focus the beginning part of our discussion on a few questions that aim to clarify how CAP22 can achieve being defined by the use of Parting Shot while remaining competitively viable. Three Fully Evolved Pokemon in the CAP Metagame can utilize Parting Shot: Smeargle, Pangoro, and Necturna. Necturna faces a very stiff opportunity cost with its Sketch move, while Smeargle has no offensive pressure and Pangoro is quite slow and not all that bulky either. With all this background in mind, here are the questions:

1. What are the limitations of Parting Shot as a move? Which other moves offset these limitations and make Parting Shot an even more viable part of the moveset's internal coherence with these moves included?

2. What common scenarios will CAP 22 encounter that would cause us to select Parting Shot either as a prediction or as the most favorable move in that scenario?

3. Which Pokemon in the metagame are least affected by Parting Shot (that are not otherwise supposed to threaten CAP) and what is the best method to address them, either through moves or a partner Pokemon?

4. What should a set that makes Parting Shot a defining characteristic look like (i.e. STAB/STAB/Parting Shot/Coverage, STAB/Parting Shot/Coverage/Support etc.)? How much consideration (or lack thereof) should be given to sets that do not include Parting Shot, but use the threat of the move as leverage? Is that mental conditioning itself even viable?

Please start off addressing these questions, and we will move to specific submissions shortly thereafter. This thread is now OPEN.

 

[snake]

1. What are the limitations of Parting Shot as a move? Which other moves offset these limitations and make Parting Shot an even more viable part of the moveset's internal coherence with these moves included?

The greatest limitation is of Parting Shot is that it does no damage and its drops do not affect walls very much. Taunt and Encore allow CAP22 to prevent walls from using their status moves or to lock them into recovery moves, respectively. They generate free turns for CAP22 to use Parting Shot as well.

2. What common scenarios will CAP 22 encounter that would cause us to select Parting Shot either as a prediction or as the most favorable move in that scenario?

Unless the opponent wants to sack a Pokemon, CAP22 vs. Tomohawk or Cyclohm, for example, will most likely force a switch. This is CAP22's best opportunity to escape with Parting Shot. What's nice about Parting Shot is that it will almost always work with no cost to CAP22 (aside facing a handful of Pokemon), unlike Volt Switch (fails against Ground-types/Electric Immunities) or U-turn (Rough Skin/Iron Barbs/Rocky Helmet). If CAP22 can KO the Pokemon it's facing, it will probably switch out, which is another good opportunity for CAP22 to use Parting Shot. If CAP22 has access to Encore, it can use the free turn to use Parting Shot.

3. Which Pokemon in the metagame are least affected by Parting Shot (that are not otherwise supposed to threaten CAP) and what is the best method to address them, either through moves or a partner Pokemon?

Clefable really doesn't care about Parting Shot. Its Moonblast does low damage uninvested to most neutral targets (though it does do a lot of damage to CAP22), and it can shrug off the Special Attack drop with Calm Mind. I believe CAP22 needs to be able to work around Clefable by means of a coverage move.

4. What should a set that makes Parting Shot a defining characteristic look like (i.e. STAB/STAB/Parting Shot/Coverage, STAB/Parting Shot/Coverage/Support etc.)? How much consideration (or lack thereof) should be given to sets that do not include Parting Shot, but use the threat of the move as leverage? Is that mental conditioning itself even viable?

I believe CAP22's best sets will be STAB/STAB/Coverage/Parting Shot, STAB/STAB/Support/Parting Shot, and STAB/STAB/Coverage/Support. When we have a concept built around a move like Parting Shot, I believe it is narrow-minded to think that Parting Shot should have 100% usage on CAP22. Parting Shot should see a large amount of usage and should be a very viable option, but we should **NOT** constrict our movepool so much that CAP22 has no better choice than to use Parting Shot. I believe that the last case of STAB/STAB/Coverage/Support or (STAB/STAB/Support/Support for that matter) should not be discredited just because it lacks Parting Shot.

EDIT: Forgot a very crucial "not". Changes my point completely. See 3 posts down for elaboration.

 

[Tmi489]

1. What are the limitations of Parting Shot as a move? Which other moves offset these limitations and make Parting Shot an even more viable part of the moveset's internal coherence with these moves included?
PS is a status move, and thus weak to mon's that can take it pretty well, along with Taunt (without AV). PS isn't priority, so any boosts, like B.Drum Azu/Caw using their priorities do either a sizable amount of damage or KO. With big boosts, it doesn't matter as much, like BDrum as said earlier. It also can't decrease damage to the point that it can be null, unlike memento (at times).

3. Which Pokemon in the metagame are least affected by Parting Shot (that are not otherwise supposed to threaten CAP) and what is the best method to address them, either through moves or a partner Pokemon?
Mega Diancie (idk if it's used in CAP anymore), can either not take any stat nerfs or bounce it back, as well as being able to set up calm mind. Syclant is also not as effected, due to +2 being pretty powerful even compared to +3 (if Tail Glow), and can set up/outspeed CAP22. If Tomo can predict well enough, a work up can counter a PS, or haze on the next turn. To counter, a (steel type) coverage move can be added. Another possibility is using U-Turn/Volt Switch to get out anyways, negating the PS. You can't do much about that>

252 SpA Life Orb CAP22 Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Diancie: 165-195 (68.4 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP22: 288-342 (93.2 - 110.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
If un-Mega'd, Diancie can uninvest tank a LB Focus and have a high chance to KO. But Diancie might actually be at threat, so...

 

[Alfalfa]

4. What should a set that makes Parting Shot a defining characteristic look like (i.e. STAB/STAB/Parting Shot/Coverage, STAB/Parting Shot/Coverage/Support etc.)? How much consideration (or lack thereof) should be given to sets that do not include Parting Shot, but use the threat of the move as leverage? Is that mental conditioning itself even viable?

I was originally convinced on Parting Shot / STAB / STAB / STAB, but if we substitute one of those STABs for coverage, we should be careful not to give CAP 22 a coverage move that targets a vast array of its checks and counters. Given that our mon is meant to be defined by Parting Shot, we should strongly consider whether or not A) we still want to pursue the option of going mixed or B) we want to give our CAP a coverage move. Both of these run risks of our CAP forgoing Parting Shot for an attack, meaning constriction of CAP 22's movepool so it does not forgo Parting Shot is almost obligatory. Our CAP can feasibly forgo Parting Shot, but we are trying to define it as a pivot, and we should thus try to keep it from forgoing the move in question.

 

[snake]

4. What should a set that makes Parting Shot a defining characteristic look like (i.e. STAB/STAB/Parting Shot/Coverage, STAB/Parting Shot/Coverage/Support etc.)? How much consideration (or lack thereof) should be given to sets that do not include Parting Shot, but use the threat of the move as leverage? Is that mental conditioning itself even viable?

I was originally convinced on Parting Shot / STAB / STAB / STAB, but if we substitute one of those STABs for coverage, we should be careful not to give CAP 22 a coverage move that targets a vast array of its checks and counters. Given that our mon is meant to be defined by Parting Shot, we should strongly consider whether or not A) we still want to pursue the option of going mixed or B) we want to give our CAP a coverage move. Both of these run risks of our CAP forgoing Parting Shot for an attack, so as snake_rattler said, we should constrict CAP 22's movepool so Parting Shot is almost obligatory. Our CAP can feasibly forgo Parting Shot, but we are trying to define it as a pivot, and we should thus try to keep it from forgoing the move in question.

Actually I meant to say that we should NOT constrict our movepool to make Parting Shot obligatory (I think faster than I can type...). Does this mean that we should have wide and colorful coverage? I don't think so. However, my point was that we shouldn't give CAP22 just two more useful moves for the sake of having Parting Shot on its movesets. I believe having access to more support moves and access to a single useful coverage move will allow CAP22 to have more set variance without messing up our checks and counters list.

 

[ThePsychoBear]

2. What common scenarios will CAP 22 encounter that would cause us to select Parting Shot either as a prediction or as the most favorable move in that scenario?
A powerful threat comes in and you predict them to go for a SE move. A sweeper starts setting up.
Another one for lulz, let's say something like Mega Steelix comes in and your team can't touch it, I'd parting shot for hope for the future.

3. Which Pokemon in the metagame are least affected by Parting Shot (that are not otherwise supposed to threaten CAP) and what is the best method to address them, either through moves or a partner Pokemon?

Azumarill, Cawmodore, Serperior, Espeon, Arghonaut, and Volcarona.

I'd say bullet punch would work as a good way of taking out Azumarill given it's meh bulk.
Against Cawmodore I think Raikou could be a good pairing for CAP 22, given its stab Thunder/TBolt and the fact that Raikou resists the hell out of Caw's STAB moves.
Against Serperior, I'd say that CAP 22 can't do anything and it needs help from Mega Venusaur, which eats the Leaf Storm and owns Serperior with sludge bomb.
With Espeon, I think CAP 22 just needs dark pulse, and Espeon doesn't stand too much of a chance.
Vs Arghonaut I'd switch in to the partner pokemon I already mentioned *Drumroll* Mega Venusaur.

And against Volcarona... THERE IS NO HOPE!
RUN TO THE HILLS!
Jk.
Basically against Volcarona... switch into any rock type/water type/flying type, because Volcarona can eat parting shots for breakfast with quiver dance and neither of CAP 22's stabs do very much to Volcarona.


4. What should a set that makes Parting Shot a defining characteristic look like (i.e. STAB/STAB/Parting Shot/Coverage, STAB/Parting Shot/Coverage/Support etc.)? How much consideration (or lack thereof) should be given to sets that do not include Parting Shot, but use the threat of the move as leverage? Is that mental conditioning itself even viable?
The best would probably be STAB/STAB/PS/Coverage, I just don't see anything else doing the trick.
A Non-Parting Shot set should be viable just with the sheer intimidation that the idea of a parting shot pivot brings, to simply avoid getting CAP 22 stepped on by immensely powerful attackers, but I'd say Parting Shot sets are leagues better so doing a set without it is mainly a niche thing.

 

[Blackdrakon30]

1. What are the limitations of Parting Shot as a move? Which other moves offset these limitations and make Parting Shot an even more viable part of the moveset's internal coherence with these moves included?

The main limitations is that it has essentially no effect upon bulky gameplay. Pokemon that have little offensive presence already, like Ferrothorn or Chansey, couldn't care less about being hit by a Parting Shot. We can minimize these limitations by providing the move Taunt, which forces the Pokemon to use a non-status move. It has great synergy with Taunt as one takes care of set-ups and stall, while the other endangers blatantly offensive Pokemon like Scarf Mollux or LO Keldeo. Due to Aroma Veil as an ability, Magic Bounce/Rebound users are not an issue if they deflect a Taunt.

3. Which Pokemon in the metagame are least affected by Parting Shot (that are not otherwise supposed to threaten CAP) and what is the best method to address them, either through moves or a partner Pokemon?

Clefable, Mega Slowbro, Mega Charizards, and Gyarados seem to be the most troublesome off the top of my head. Clefable has little issues with somewhat lowered attacking stats since it can't deal much raw damage anyways without boosts. Additionally, it can easily boost its SpA back up using Calm Mind. Slowbro is pretty much the same scenario. Both of these Pokemon can hit back on CAP22 Super Effective, so we definitely don't want to stay in on them. Mega Charizards both resist the Fairy STAB, while being neutral to our Fighting STAB. Mega Charizard-Y struggles more with the Parting Shot, but still can hit quite hard through the lowered stat. Mega Charizard-X is far more dangerous despite not having a resistance to Fairy. This is because it has more physical bulk and can easily remedy lowered attack using Dragon Dance. Gyarados I would say is the most dangerous offensive Pokemon. It can resist the Fighting STAB, and can take a Moonblast due to high Special Defense. Any Physical attacks would be halted by Intimidate, and Parting Shot drops are just a chance for Gyarados to gain +1 speed from Dragon Dance.

The best way of addressing this are to have either a strong Electric type on the team, a setup stopper with Unaware, or by having CAP22 learn Taunt in order to stop setups before they happen.

4. What should a set that makes Parting Shot a defining characteristic look like (i.e. STAB/STAB/Parting Shot/Coverage, STAB/Parting Shot/Coverage/Support etc.)? How much consideration (or lack thereof) should be given to sets that do not include Parting Shot, but use the threat of the move as leverage? Is that mental conditioning itself even viable?

I believe great we should put forth much consideration towards sets without Parting Shot. With amazing offensive typing, we can't always be expected to want Parting Shot if we would rather use the CAP for just raw damage. I believe the main spreads would be (STAB/STAB/Parting Shot/Coverage), (STAB/STAB/Coverage/Status),
or (STAB, STAB, Status, Parting Shot). When I say status, I mean moves mostly like Thunder Wave or Taunt that would be overall beneficial to the team.

 

[david0895]

3. Which Pokemon in the metagame are least affected by Parting Shot (that are not otherwise supposed to threaten CAP) and what is the best method to address them, either through moves or a partner Pokemon?

There are (imo) two type of pokémon that don't care much about Parting Shot:
-Sword Dance / Tail Glow users: a lot of them can be defeated with its STAB moves (Garchomp, Landorus-T, ecc...), but with user like Syclant, I think it's better to have some anti-booster like Arghonaut or Quagsire
-Walls: all non-offensive pokémon don't care about their Atk/Spa stat, due to their supporting role, but its STAB moves should be enough.

Also, we need to consider that Serperior, Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye will gain advantage, thanks to their abilities, from Parting Shot, and they're barely OHKO with its STAB moves.

4. What should a set that makes Parting Shot a defining characteristic look like (i.e. STAB/STAB/Parting Shot/Coverage, STAB/Parting Shot/Coverage/Support etc.)? How much consideration (or lack thereof) should be given to sets that do not include Parting Shot, but use the threat of the move as leverage? Is that mental conditioning itself even viable?

The most considerated set was (Parting Shot/Close Combat/Moonblast/Focus Blast) in order to threat most pokémon as possible.
The only change that I think is possible, is to remove Close Combat, because only Chansey is really threatened, to change it with a status move (Taunt probably is the best option).
Remove Parting Shot could be possible, but is not possbile to hide it when you have against a Mega Charizard Y or Plasmanta.

 

[snake]

Also, we need to consider that Serperior, Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye will gain advantage, thanks to their abilities, from Parting Shot, and they're barely OHKO with its STAB moves.

I've stated multiple times over this project that Mega Diancie, Mega Sableye, Rebound Colossoil, and Seperior are greatly overstated as threats to CAP22. Yes, they will be annoying, but they aren't giant obstacles. No competent player is going to use Parting Shot against them, so the only time those four Pokemon will be hit with Parting Shot is if they decide to switch into CAP22. All of them are at least 2HKOed by Life Orb Moonblast and are outsped. They will pressure CAP22 in that CAP22 can't use Parting Shot as freely, but it will be extremely risky for any of those four to switch into CAP22.

 

[Flargliklarfglik]

1. What are the limitations of Parting Shot as a move? Which other moves offset these limitations and make Parting Shot an even more viable part of the moveset's internal coherence with these moves included?

It's not effective against enemies who use stat boosts, if you use it on the turn an enemy uses swords dance or nasty plot they wind up with more attack then when you started. It's also countered by clear body and hypercutter, and may not help shut down status inflicting pokemon.

2. What common scenarios will CAP 22 encounter that would cause us to select Parting Shot either as a prediction or as the most favorable move in that scenario?

Whenever Cap 22 comes up against an enemy that is too big a threat to fight, or in order to help in setups.

4. What should a set that makes Parting Shot a defining characteristic look like (i.e. STAB/STAB/Parting Shot/Coverage, STAB/Parting Shot/Coverage/Support etc.)? How much consideration (or lack thereof) should be given to sets that do not include Parting Shot, but use the threat of the move as leverage? Is that mental conditioning itself even viable?

STAB/STAB/Parting Shot/Support, the only type that resists both fairy and fighting is poison, so you have good coverage with STAB, and when you come across poison types, they're super effective anyway, so it's time to use parting shots and switch. A status move or stat boosting move helps deal with threats like chansey that don't care about parting shots, so I'd prefer it to coverage.

 

[nyttyn]

I'm going to go ahead and avoid retreading old ground in favor of just focusing on things that I feel are either incorrect or havent been mentioned.

1. What are the limitations of Parting Shot as a move? Which other moves offset these limitations and make Parting Shot an even more viable part of the moveset's internal coherence with these moves included?
Parting Shot's theoretical weakness to walls isn't actually a huge deal, as typically speaking someone will be switching a wall or resist into CAP 22 to tank our 115 SpAtk Fairy/Fighting moves off of 119 speed, which serve as a extremely threatening STAB combo which many opponents will be forced to swap out to handle edit: which we can predict and abuse by using parting shot. We are limited by the move not having priority, so faster pokemon and priority still get around it at least somewhat. And Magic Bounce is probably the most hilariously awful counter for CAP 22 in existence, since the move drops our stats and makes the opponent swap out, and there are two (technically three, since rebound) very prominent magic bouncers in the meta right now (however it should be noted that switching in all three is a questionable decision: Sableye-mega is kind of a risky switch-in as it gets dunked by fairy moves, colossoil is extremely risky as it gets dunked by both STABs, and Diancie-mega will get a chunk ripped out of it and is outsped, though it threatens to OHKO us in return).

2. What common scenarios will CAP 22 encounter that would cause us to select Parting Shot either as a prediction or as the most favorable move in that scenario?
Literally all of them. It's a vol-turn move. You spam those any time you remotely think the opponent might swap out, and the atk/def drop makes it even safer to spam. You'll definitely want to swap it up if you think attacking would be a better call or if you think you can predict what they're going to do, but just smashing the Parting Shot button with your face will be the best pick like 70% of the time.

3. Which Pokemon in the metagame are least affected by Parting Shot (that are not otherwise supposed to threaten CAP) and what is the best method to address them, either through moves or a partner Pokemon?

Diancie-mega is the single hardest counter to CAP 22's parting shot in existence and any team with CAP 22 on it will need something to answer that (scizor most likely). Otherwise by nature of how Parting Shot works, CAP 22 will probably only require STABs to threaten things so that it can abuse a swap, and by its nature will probably fit on just about any offensive or balance team rather than requiring any sort of assistance itself.

4. What should a set that makes Parting Shot a defining characteristic look like (i.e. STAB/STAB/Parting Shot/Coverage, STAB/Parting Shot/Coverage/Support etc.)? How much consideration (or lack thereof) should be given to sets that do not include Parting Shot, but use the threat of the move as leverage? Is that mental conditioning itself even viable?

STAB / STAB / Parting Shot / filler. Parting Shot on this pokemon is too good and will exist on 100% of the viable sets, there's no reason to try and sneak in another coverage move when Parting Shot is so good. It will run both STABs because, well, Fairy/Fighting coverage is really freaking good. As those three moves by themselves already provide an answer to almost every situation CAP 22 might find itself in, the fourth slot will probably just be filler which can be changed on a team-by-team basis.

 

[Deck Knight]

RE: Limitations of Parting Shot:

Multiple people have identified the limitations of Parting Shot is that it doesn't have priority, can be shut down by Taunt, and it doesn't inflict any damage. The positives of the move are that it applies offensive pressure and momentum for your team by easing prediction in any hard-switch scenario for the opponent.

Most of the moves discussed were move limiters for the opponent (Taunt, Encore), however I would like to open up a few more possibilities.

Since Parting Shot is a switching move that effectively allows the new Pokemon to take a reduced hit, Wish has a lot of internal synergy with Parting Shot. I think this as well as other limited healing moves to maintain CAP's longevity through hazards or offensive pressure after resisted are good moves to discuss.

Another way to utilize offensive pressure is to be able to set hazards for your side of the field. The hazard I think most appropriate for this is Spikes and/or Toxic Spikes. Stealth Rock interacts with our threat list way too much, and makes them very susceptible to 2HKOs or even OHKOs on the spottier checks.
As such I'm going to prohibit Stealth Rock from the outset but allow discussion on other methods for indirect damage.

RE: Common Scenarios and Least Affected Targets:

Lumping these together because their answers are similar. Clefable seems to be the big offender here, while other threats the don't care much about Parting Shot are Pokemon that are going to use +2 or speed+offense boosters. Against the latter Parting Shot is more of a prevention tactic than a true way to address them, which leads us back in part to Taunt and somewhat into Encore.

RE: Set Configuration

I agree with nyttyn to an extent that Parting Shot is particularly viable on CAP 22, however I do believe several utility moves or expansive coverage would undermine Parting Shot's other utility. Specifically I think hazard removal is too much of a role distraction, as it creates scenarios where CAP is using its turn to attempt hazard removal instead of maintaining offensive pressure through the Attack/Parting Shot scenario.
Before making a hard prohibition though like with Stealth Rock, I'd like people to discuss the merits first within the context of not overshadowing Parting Shot.

- - - - -

With all this said, I'd like to open moveset submissions.

First and foremost, follow the submission format in the OP. This means no one-off moves, unless you're modifying an existing suggested set. It is perfectly fine to slash in moves you think have equal utility on a given spread, but don't let your submissions get burdened down by "slashitis" - the disease of set indecision. Do not make move suggestions based purely on flavor, there should be significant competitive reasoning for any competitive move, i.e. if lowering our opponent's attack is competitively sound, it shouldn't matter whether it's Baby-Doll Eyes, Charm, Feather Dance, or Growl, but provide competitive reasoning for the move.

Also, don't be afraid to post the "obvious" set or to push the boundaries to create a discussion. Remember, this is still a discussion and my role at the TLT section leader (along with the TL) is to gauge community support for a given option as well as balancing the entirety of our competitive move selections.

Finally, don't be afraid to be creative. There are hundreds of moves within the game that have competitive merit, our job here is to apply them to CAP.

With that said, I'll start off with something a little creative and discussion sparking myself - Remember, in this phase of the thread I'm looking for feedback and competitive arguments as to whether the option would overshadow Parting Shot or be too generally powerful.

- - - - -

Moveset Submission
Name: Imprison Shot
Move 1: Imprison
Move 2: Moonblast
Move 3: Sludge Wave / Knock Off
Move 4: Parting Shot
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid

• Imprison is a self-targeted move that prohibits opponents from using the same moves.
• Moonblast serves as a main STAB and also a move Imprison prevents other Pokemon from using. Clefable for example cannot Moonblast CAP while Imprison is in effect.
• The third slot depends on what you want to counter. Sludge Wave directly addresses Clefable offensively with a comfortable 2HKO. Knock Off allows CAP to remove Chansey's Eviolite and prevents any opponent that switches in from using Knock Off against CAP. Because Imprison limits moves from being selected rather than executed, any Pokemon CAP switches to with Parting Shot will itself avoid a Knock-Off.
• The 4th move is Parting Shot, which works with Imprison and it's notable that if CAP uses Imprison first, other CAPs that switch in to pressure or revenge cannot themselves use Parting Shot.

This set starts off with a few niche assumptions on moves, however I think the overall competitive effect is great. Imprison is one of those moves that never gets used and I think part of it is because almost none of its viable users have a transition move to prevent selection that turn, and the only one that does (Landorus-T) has better things to do than Imprison opposing Stealth Rocks. Where our CAP is significantly faster, has a lot of weak-to-own-moves issues, and a viable transition move is where I think Imprison becomes not only sensible, but a useful anti-metagame set in its own right.

Other Options on this set would include Dazzing Gleam over Moonblast in case you fear Togekiss more for some reason, but I'd decline on supporting Sludge Bomb over Sludge Wave because I think the 30% Poison chance is too much and since more Poison types learn Sludge Bomb than Sludge Wave it would interfere more with the threatlist. Mollux and Plasmanta do run Sludge Wave but they still hard counter CAP, and if they did switch to Sludge Bomb to avoid an HP Ground variant CAP catching them by surprise they would not lose an appreciable amount of overall power.

- - - - -

Please feel free to post your own sets and commentary.

 

[Samoyed]

Moveset Submission
Name: Taunt-Shot
Move 1: Aura Sphere
Move 2: Moonblast
Move 3: Taunt
Move 4: Parting Shot
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid

• Aura Sphere is a reliable STAB move. While somewhat weaker than Focus Blast, it has perfect accuracy and hits many things that would otherwise counter us. (I.E Bisharp.)
• Moonblast is our secondary STAB move, and it provides great coverage alongside Aura Sphere.
• Taunt deals with Clefable and Chansey to an extent, which are otherwise fairly annoying to this CAP. It is also very useful for just general utility.
• Parting Shot is what this concept is based around and allows us to make a quick getaway and provides both momentum and utility.
• Natural Cure is generally the superior ability.
• A Life Orb, max Spe and max SpA allow us to hit hard enough to take down our counters and outspeed most things we should be outspeeding to use Parting Shot.
• No EVs in HP allow us to hit a Life Orb number IIRC.

I guess this is basically a "standard" set, I think a general consensus for a regular set was either Dual Stab, PS & Utility (this one) or Dual Stab, Coverage and PS. Taunt is just really nice and it helps us fit our threatlist without giving us coverage. I realize that flavor has no place in this discussion and is not the reason I picked Taunt, but Taunt & Parting Shot are both insulting moves. :p

 

[KrazyCake]

Moveset Submission
Name: Wishful Thinking
Move 1: Moonblast
Move 2: Focus Blast / HP Ground
Move 3: Wish
Move 4: Parting Shot
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 232 HP /92 SpA / 184 Spe
Nature: Timid

• First of all let's talk about the crux of my moveset submission the move "Wish" I feel as if this move and parting shot were a match made in heaven as they work so well together you use wish then next off use parting shot to weaken you're enemy's attacking stats the while you get switched out when your team mate takes that (little) damage from the enemy it would be healed up to high (if not full) HP.
• Now on to the first STAB move in this submission "Moonblast" I feel like this STAB move is more important than fighting STAB as it beats a lot of the top ranked pokemon in this meta.
• On to the second move its another STAB just for coverage as it does more damage but to a smaller number of BIG threats but it does its job well as it fends of other more annoying pokemon it also provides a nice amount of "risk" while also giving a high reward. There is also HP ground so you don't have to worry about most steel and poison types as it can make them think twice about switching in on this mon.
• Just keep in mind this set is subject to change.

[Edit] Made changes to Evs like Deck Knight said.

 

[Alfalfa]

Name: Offensive
Move 1: Aura Sphere
Move 2: Moonblast
Move 3: Flame Burst
Move 4: Parting Shot
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid

This is ideally our CAP's most offensive set. Aura Sphere and Moonblast are the CAP's STAB attacks of choice, bearing respectable power without being too inconsistent. The coverage move I have here is Flame Burst, and I will state that it DOES interfere with a small number of checks and counters. However, I am drawing precedent here from the previous project, the Crucibelle project, in which we gave Crucibelle Low Kick and Wood Hammer despite the risk of screwing over certain checks and counters (specifically Bisharp, Ferrothorn, and a couple of others) so Crucibelle was not helpless against them. I considered Flamethrower, Lava Plume and Heat Wave, but Flamethrower hit mons like Plasmanta and Fidgit a touch too hard (and so would Heat Wave). Lava Plume hits just about right but has a nasty 30% burn chance that would mess with our checks and counters too much (Fire Pledge I mentioned in a self-deleted post but it is starter-locked {Charmander, Cyndaquil, etc.} and thus probably banned). Flame Burst is a touch too weak against mons like Amoonguss and Ferrothorn but it is the strongest special fire move available that is not either A) too strong (Flamethrower, Heat Wave, Fire Blast), B) starter-locked (Fire Pledge) or C) carrying counterproductive secondary effects (Lava Plume, Fiery Dance).

Calcs based on 1760 stat spreads

252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Ferrothorn: 296-354 (84.3 - 100.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 244-289 (73 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Plasmanta: 94-110 (29 - 33.9%) -- 1.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Plasmanta: 94-112 (29 - 34.5%) -- 4.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Plasmanta: 94-112 (35.8 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Plasmanta: 94-110 (35.8 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mollux: 74-88 (22.3 - 26.5%) -- 24.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 208 HP / 0 SpD Mollux: 74-88 (19.3 - 22.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 125-148 (42 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame: 83-99 (23.1 - 27.5%) -- 62.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock {Do not forget priority Roost}
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame: 142-169 (39.5 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO {after Roost}
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Metagross: 169-200 (56.1 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Jirachi: 135-161 (33.4 - 39.8%) -- 87.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Jirachi: 156-185 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Jirachi: 182-216 (53.3 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Pyroak: 169-200 (38.1 - 45.1%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Volkraken: 156-185 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Volcanion: 169-200 (46.5 - 55%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Fidgit: 110-130 (27.9 - 32.9%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Crucibelle: 130-153 (36.8 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Crucibelle: 125-148 (30 - 35.5%) -- 26.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 159-190 (24.7 - 29.5%) -- 0.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
52 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kitsunoh: 221-260 (73.4 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kitsunoh: 221-260 (60.7 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery {this spread is not mentioned on 1760 stats, but it is mentioned in its analysis as a separate set from offensive so I will put this calc here)
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 153-182 (35.4 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery {most common 1760 spread}
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Amoonguss: 195-231 (45.2 - 53.5%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 252 HP / 152+ SpD Amoonguss: 169-200 (39.1 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Mega Scizor: 302-359 (88 - 104.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 148 HP / 0 SpD Mega Scizor: 364-432 (114.4 - 135.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I referenced 1760 cap stats; you can find the link here

 

[david0895]

Moveset Submission
Name: Offensive Pivot
Move 1: Parting Shot
Move 2: Moonblast
Move 3: Aura Sphere / Focus Blast
Move 4: Close Combat / Knock Off
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive / Timid

• Parting Shot is the signature move of CAP22 that reduce Atk and SpA
• Moonblast is the Fairy STAB that destroy Fighting types like Keldeo, Tomohawk and Revenankh
• Aura Sphere is he fighting STAB move with perfect accuracy that does heavy damage to Steel type like Ferrothorn, Heatran and Skarmory. If you want more power use Focus Blast, but remember the miss chance
• Close Combat is a good move that guarantee a 2HKO on Chansey, otherwise, you can use Knock Off to remove its Eviolite or the item of the switch-ins before use Parting Shot on them
• Natural Cure allow CAP22 to absorb a status condition
• Life Orb is the best item to boost its moves and guarantee a lot of OHKO and 2HKO
• Naive is chosen over Hasty in order to allow CAP22 to take better the moves of the Dragon types like Dragonite or Garchomp and OHKO back with Moonblast (assuming that Multiscale is broken). If Close Combat is not used, Timid must be used

 

[snake]

Moveset Submission
Name: Offensive Pivot / Stallbreaker
Move 1: Moonblast
Move 2: Aura Sphere / Focus Blast
Move 3: Sludge Wave / Taunt
Move 4: Parting Shot / Taunt
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb / Choice Specs
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid

This should be CAP22's most offensive set. It is a mixture of many sets proposed thus far, but I envisioned this set well before the Moveset Discussion began.

• STAB moves are obvious - Moonblast OHKOes Tomohawk, Cyclohm, and many other Pokemon in the CAP Metagame.
• Aura Sphere is a consistent secondary STAB, but Focus Blast is an option for more power.
• Sludge Wave is CAP22's best way to get around Clefable - more elaboration below.
• Parting Shot lets CAP22 escape from most targets and helps retain offensive momentum.
• Taunt is an option to further shut down Clefable and other walls, but giving up Parting Shot or Sludge Wave for it will be difficult.
• A Timid Nature and 252 Speed EVs let CAP22 outspeed as many threats as possible, including standard Cawmodore
• 252 Special Attack EVs and a Life Orb let CAP22 hit as hard as possible without giving up the ability to change moves.
• Choice Specs is an option on this set to hit even harder, but it makes Taunt less effective.
• 4 Special Defense EVs hits an important Special Defense benchmark found in our stat spread submission.
• 0 HP EVs allows CAP22 to preserve 309 HP, a Life Orb number.
• Natural Cure lets CAP22 shrug off status when it uses Parting Shot (or hard switches in the case of paralysis).

Sludge Wave Justification

Sludge Wave lets CAP22 muscle its way past Clefable, a Pokemon that I view as more passive than offensive. I will be looking at standard CM + Thunder Wave Clefable in this scenario, the set that should give CAP22 the most trouble.

CAP22 cannot safely switch into Clefable, as Moonblast does too much damage:

0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 218-258 (70.5 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 326-386 (105.5 - 124.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

In addition to Moonblast, Clefable can hit CAP22 with Thunder Wave on the switch. Granted, CAP22 can heal it with Natural Cure, but then it's too slow to check Clefable effectively.

Sludge Wave 2HKOes standard Clefable:

252 SpA Life Orb Clefable Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 224-265 (56.8 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Clefable Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 260-306 (65.9 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

But! It fails to break +1 Clefable:

252 SpA Life Orb Clefable Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 151-179 (38.3 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Clefable Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 172-204 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


In short, Sludge Wave improves CAP22's match up with Clefable, but it does not prevent Clefable from threatening CAP22, as three of its common moves (Moonblast, Calm Mind, and Thunder Wave) make it harder for CAP22 to KO Clefable.

What else Sludge Wave does:
Sludge Wave also hits Pyroak slightly harder than Focus Blast, but its a passive Pokemon that I believe CAP22 should be able to work around. Sludge Wave solidifies Poison-types as true counters to CAP22. I choose Sludge Wave over Sludge Bomb because the poison chance is lower, but Sludge Bomb can still be an option.

On to comments on some of the sets (sorry if I didn't make it to yours, strapped for time):

Moveset Submission
Name: Wishful Thinking
Move 1: Moonblast/Aura Sphere
Move 2: HP Fire/HP Ground
Move 3: Wish
Move 4: Parting Shot
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 140 Def / 16 SpA / 100 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Modest

• First of all let's talk about the crux of my moveset submission the move "Wish" I feel as if this move and parting shot were a match made in heaven as they work so well together you use wish then next off use parting shot to weaken you're enemy's attacking stats the while you get switched out when your team mate takes that (little) damage from the enemy it would be healed up to high (if not full) HP.
• Now on to the only STAB move in this submission I was originally gonna just say Moonblast but then I thought on it a bit more and realised that both of these can help depending on what kind of team you have I picked Aura Sphere over Focus Blast just because its a more reliable move
• Now onto why I chose coverage over more STAB its just there so this mon does not have to worry as much as it normally would. I originally had different coverage moves (I.E Fire Blast/Earth Power) But a few people have told me that those moves sounded a bit too OP and I can see that. So since this mon has such a good SpA stat some people said that giving it HP Fire or Ground would be beneficial and I agree it 2HKO's most of its treats while also out speeding them.
• Just keep in mind this set is subject to change.

I really like the look of this set! Could you explain the EV spread though? I feel like investing in HP would allow CAP22 to pass bigger wishes and not waste as many EVs. You could probably move some of the speed EVs since you are running a Modest nature. Finally, I think Leftovers could get a slash on this set since it seems more recovery-based, but that's just me.

Name: Offensive
Move 1: Aura Sphere
Move 2: Moonblast
Move 3: Flame Burst
Move 4: Parting Shot
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid

This is ideally our CAP's most offensive set. Aura Sphere and Moonblast are the CAP's STAB attacks of choice, bearing respectable power without being too inconsistent. The coverage move I have here is Flame Burst, and I will state that it DOES interfere with a small number of checks and counters. However, I am drawing precedent here from the previous project, the Crucibelle project, in which we gave Crucibelle Low Kick and Wood Hammer despite the risk of screwing over certain checks and counters (specifically Bisharp, Ferrothorn, and a couple of others) so Crucibelle was not helpless against them. I considered Flamethrower, Lava Plume and Heat Wave, but Flamethrower hit mons like Plasmanta and Fidgit a touch too hard (and so would Heat Wave). Lava Plume hits just about right but has a nasty 30% burn chance that would mess with our checks and counters too much (Fire Pledge I mentioned in a self-deleted post but it is starter-locked {Charmander, Cyndaquil, etc.} and thus probably banned). Flame Burst is a touch too weak against mons like Amoonguss and Ferrothorn but it is the strongest special fire move available that is not either A) too strong (Flamethrower, Heat Wave, Fire Blast), B) starter-locked (Fire Pledge) or C) carrying counterproductive secondary effects (Lava Plume, Fiery Dance).

Calcs based on 1760 stat spreads

252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Ferrothorn: 296-354 (84.3 - 100.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 244-289 (73 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Plasmanta: 94-110 (29 - 33.9%) -- 1.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Plasmanta: 94-112 (29 - 34.5%) -- 4.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Plasmanta: 94-112 (35.8 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Plasmanta: 94-110 (35.8 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mollux: 74-88 (22.3 - 26.5%) -- 24.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 208 HP / 0 SpD Mollux: 74-88 (19.3 - 22.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 125-148 (42 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame: 83-99 (23.1 - 27.5%) -- 62.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock {Do not forget priority Roost}
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame: 142-169 (39.5 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO {after Roost}
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Metagross: 169-200 (56.1 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Jirachi: 135-161 (33.4 - 39.8%) -- 87.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Jirachi: 156-185 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Jirachi: 182-216 (53.3 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Pyroak: 169-200 (38.1 - 45.1%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Volkraken: 156-185 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Volcanion: 169-200 (46.5 - 55%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Fidgit: 110-130 (27.9 - 32.9%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Crucibelle: 130-153 (36.8 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Crucibelle: 125-148 (30 - 35.5%) -- 26.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 159-190 (24.7 - 29.5%) -- 0.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
52 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kitsunoh: 221-260 (73.4 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kitsunoh: 221-260 (60.7 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery {this spread is not mentioned on 1760 stats, but it is mentioned in its analysis as a separate set from offensive so I will put this calc here)
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 153-182 (35.4 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery {most common 1760 spread}
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Amoonguss: 195-231 (45.2 - 53.5%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 252 HP / 152+ SpD Amoonguss: 169-200 (39.1 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Mega Scizor: 302-359 (88 - 104.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flame Burst vs. 148 HP / 0 SpD Mega Scizor: 364-432 (114.4 - 135.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I referenced 1760 cap stats; you can find the link here

I am very skeptical of Flame Burst solely due to those last two calcs on Mega Scizor. Scizor (Mega and base formes) is supposed to be a very good check to CAP22 due to its access to a very powerful Bullet Punch. While Focus Blast will do a lot of damage to Mega Scizor, you have to take that gamble and risk missing entirely. Giving CAP22 Flame Burst allows it to get past one of its prominent offensive checks much more easily, which personally I highly dislike. I am unsure why CAP22 would even want Flame Burst aside from OHKOing or near OHKOing Mega Scizor anyways.

 

[Alfalfa]

Moveset Submission
Name: Offensive Pivot / Stallbreaker
Move 1: Moonblast
Move 2: Aura Sphere / Focus Blast
Move 3: Sludge Wave / Taunt
Move 4: Parting Shot / Taunt
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb / Choice Specs
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid

This should be CAP22's most offensive set. It is a mixture of many sets proposed thus far, but I envisioned this set well before the Moveset Discussion began.

• STAB moves are obvious - Moonblast OHKOes Tomohawk, Cyclohm, and many other Pokemon in the CAP Metagame.
• Aura Sphere is a consistent secondary STAB, but Focus Blast is an option for more power.
• Sludge Wave is CAP22's best way to get around Clefable - more elaboration below.
• Parting Shot lets CAP22 escape from most targets and helps retain offensive momentum.
• Taunt is an option to further shut down Clefable and other walls, but giving up Parting Shot or Sludge Wave for it will be difficult.
• A Timid Nature and 252 Speed EVs let CAP22 outspeed as many threats as possible, including standard Cawmodore
• 252 Special Attack EVs and a Life Orb let CAP22 hit as hard as possible without giving up the ability to change moves.
• Choice Specs is an option on this set to hit even harder, but it makes Taunt less effective.
• 4 Special Defense EVs hits an important Special Defense benchmark found in our stat spread submission.
• 0 HP EVs allows CAP22 to preserve 309 HP, a Life Orb number.
• Natural Cure lets CAP22 shrug off status when it uses Parting Shot (or hard switches in the case of paralysis).

Sludge Wave Justification

Sludge Wave lets CAP22 muscle its way past Clefable, a Pokemon that I view as more passive than offensive. I will be looking at standard CM + Thunder Wave Clefable in this scenario, the set that should give CAP22 the most trouble.

CAP22 cannot safely switch into Clefable, as Moonblast does too much damage:

0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 218-258 (70.5 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 326-386 (105.5 - 124.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

In addition to Moonblast, Clefable can hit CAP22 with Thunder Wave on the switch. Granted, CAP22 can heal it with Natural Cure, but then it's too slow to check Clefable effectively.

Sludge Wave 2HKOes standard Clefable:

252 SpA Life Orb Clefable Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 224-265 (56.8 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Clefable Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 260-306 (65.9 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

But! It fails to break +1 Clefable:

252 SpA Life Orb Clefable Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 151-179 (38.3 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Clefable Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 172-204 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


In short, Sludge Wave improves CAP22's match up with Clefable, but it does not prevent Clefable from threatening CAP22, as three of its common moves (Moonblast, Calm Mind, and Thunder Wave) make it harder for CAP22 to KO Clefable.

What else Sludge Wave does:
Sludge Wave also hits Pyroak slightly harder than Focus Blast, but its a passive Pokemon that I believe CAP22 should be able to work around. Sludge Wave solidifies Poison-types as true counters to CAP22. I choose Sludge Wave over Sludge Bomb because the poison chance is lower, but Sludge Bomb can still be an option.

On to comments on some of the sets (sorry if I didn't make it to yours, strapped for time):



I really like the look of this set! Could you explain the EV spread though? I feel like investing in HP would allow CAP22 to pass bigger wishes and not waste as many EVs. You could probably move some of the speed EVs since you are running a Modest nature. Finally, I think Leftovers could get a slash on this set since it seems more recovery-based, but that's just me.



I am very skeptical of Flame Burst solely due to those last two calcs on Mega Scizor. Scizor (Mega and base formes) is supposed to be a very good check to CAP22 due to its access to a very powerful Bullet Punch. While Focus Blast will do a lot of damage to Mega Scizor, you have to take that gamble and risk missing entirely. Giving CAP22 Flame Burst allows it to get past one of its prominent offensive checks much more easily, which personally I highly dislike. I am unsure why CAP22 would even want Flame Burst aside from OHKOing or near OHKOing Mega Scizor anyways.

A check is not a counter; checks do not necessarily have to switch in to be a good check. Mega Scizor is commonly used to check Latios, yet it still runs the risk of being hit with Hidden Power Fire. The same thing applies with Ferrothorn-Latios. In addition, Mega Scizor still has Bullet Punch, it just cannot switch in as safely. We had this discussion with Crucibelle as well by giving it Low Kick, which pretty much invalidated Bisharp and Ferrothorn as checks, both of which we wanted to check (M)-Crucibelle.

I mentioned Flame Burst because it gives our CAP a way to hit Steels like Mega Gross and Jirachi harder without being able to hit threats like Plasmanta and Fidgit awfully hard (hint: Mega Gross and Rachi are still reliable checks). Losing Mega Scizor, as well as Kitsunoh, as hard checks is unfortunate, but they still check CAP 22 to an extent and there are still numerous other checks that check CAP 22 that are viable in the CAP metagame.

 

[david0895]

Moves I want more discussion on:
- Taunt
- Wish
- Moonlight
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes

- Rapid Spin
- Defog

-Taunt: Could be useful to shut down Stealth Rock setter and walls like Chansey or Mew

-Wish: W/out protect it's an high risk move, but with high rewards. Also with Natural Cure we take 2 birds with one stone

-Moonlight: I think that this move it's not a good idea because favors sets like offensive Starmie, discouraging it's departure with Parting Shot

-Spikes: May be a good way to pressure the opponent, as they hit only a part of meta

-Toxic Spikes: Poison pressure will be too elevate, especially with two layers. Also with Spikes CAP22 will lose its primary role of offensive pivot

-Rapid Spin / Defog: The possibility of removing hazards can rise its support for the team. If he survive at the enemy hit...

 

[Kyubics]

Moveset Submission
Name: Offensive Utility (Spikes)
Move 1: Moonblast
Move 2: Parting Shot
Move 3: Taunt
Move 4: Spikes
Ability: Natural Cure / Aroma Veil
Item: Leftovers / Life Orb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid

The goal of this set is to set Spikes on switches/free turns early game while pivoting out of counters with Parting Shot, and then potentially clean late-game after its (grounded) checks/counters have been worn down. Consequently, this set is fairly self-sufficient.

• Moonblast is this set's main (and only) way of dealing damage; a strong STAB move with good neutral coverage that lets it break down common CAP cores such as Tomohawk + Colossoil + Cyclohm. Because of this, it allows CAP 22 to clean late-game after its checks/counters have been worn down with Spikes.
• Parting Shot is a great move, irrespective of whether it was intended to be on almost every set, it allows CAP 22 to pivot out of its offensive answers both on a predicted switch or on anything slower.
• Taunt has great synergy with Parting Shot as it allows CAP 22 to cripple defensive switch-ins such as Chansey, Skamory and Clefable. Without it, I don't think that CAP 22 will be nearly as viable because we will fail to do something that we intended to do ever since our threatlist discussion: beat passive Pokemon. I also think that Taunt makes up somewhat for the lack of a fighting STAB on this set as the Pokemon that would be hit are either handled by Moonblast (Dark types), Parting Shot (Offensive Steel types) or Taunt (Defensive Steel types).
• Spikes is what differentiates this set from others and makes it more focused on support rather than power. Before the discussion was moved on, I was actually going to make a post on entry hazards and how they can make up for Parting Shot's lack of chip damage by providing some of their own. Spikes in particular are helpful because 1) they do not mess with our threatlist like Stealth Rock would do 2) they impact more on grounded passive Pokemon (bar Clefable) and 3) they can be set up multiple times on the switches CAP 22 forces. Spikes also have great synergy with the other moves on this set because they capitalise on the switches -1 offenses from Pariting Shot force and how Taunt prevents passive Pokemon from healing off the damage they take from switching in.
• Natural Cure is the preferred ability due to the fact that it allows CAP 22 to get free swiches into status and aid its role as a support Pokemon, however Aroma Veil could be used so that this set isn't prevented from setting up Spikes by opposing Taunt.
• Leftovers is a good item to have because it gives this set more staying power so that it can last more of the battle and continually set up hazards, however Life Orb gives CAP 22 more immediate power at the cost of some longevity.
• EVs and Nature are standard, allowing CAP 22 to take full advantage of its great speed tier, however, they are subject to change.

I hope that Spikes warrants its own set, but I am more than happy for this set to be merged with the 'standard' one it it fits better. I know that this set has its limitations; it would probably struggle to find ample switch in opportunities without VoltTurn or double switching and it may require Wish support to last the entire match, but hey, that's what teammates are for.

Comments on other sets to come.

 

[Alfalfa]

Moves I want more discussion on:
- Taunt
- Wish
- Moonlight
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes

- Rapid Spin
- Defog

Moves we have decided NOT to allow on sets so far:
- Stealth Rock

Wish + Parting Shot is being grossly overrated here. Our CAP is an offensive pivot, and an offensive pivot is meant to generate or maintain momentum. Wish does neither of these things. It kills offensive momentum and forces the user to waste a turn while it takes a hit. Yes, Parting Shot allows a Wish recipient to receive more of the Wish after taking a hit. No, our CAP is not a reliable Wish user. Its bulk is average at best, and most of the time our CAP is going to be forced out by one of its checks before it can heal itself with Wish.

Toxic Spikes does not interfere with our checks and counters much with the exception of Pyroak, Volcanion, and Volkraken. However, these three are already taking a lot from a STAB Aura Sphere, especially after Stealth Rock. It also helps CAP 22 put pressure on Chansey without having to run a physical STAB that only targets Chansey and one other Pokemon.

Spikes messes with our checks and counters too much. Many of CAP 22's checks are grounded, meaning they will have a lot more difficult time switching into CAP 22 reliably. I get that Spikes is a move that synergizes well with VoltTurn in general, but given that we are making a CAP here, we do not want to give our CAP Spikes if it is going to mess with its checks and counters, which it would.

Both Rapid Spin and Defog would be unique options on CAP 22 in that it can pressure most deterrents of the move, beating Mega Sableye, Revenankh, and Bisharp, and only really losing to Kitsunoh (if we do not give our CAP any coverage). I honestly think CAP 22 has better things to be doing than running hazard removal, but my concerns are mostly just personal bias.

Moonlight outweighs Parting Shot too much. Our CAP could literally just run dual STABs + support move or coverage move + Moonlight instead of running Parting Shot. In addition, our CAP can already hit most of the metagame super effectively, and adding reliable recovery is going to make all of the positive attributes we gave this CAP overkill.

Taunt messes with some of CAP 22's checks and counters a little too much, particularly Fidgit and defensive Talonflame. Stealth Rock + Taunt is pretty much going to ruin defensive Talonflame, a Pokemon that should have no issue beating CAP 22 otherwise. Fidgit is also a mon we want to check CAP 22, and Taunt pretty much keeps it from doing anything it wants to do.

 

[snake]

Wish + Parting Shot is being grossly overrated here. Our CAP is an offensive pivot, and an offensive pivot is meant to generate or maintain momentum. Wish does neither of these things. It kills offensive momentum and forces the user to waste a turn while it takes a hit. Yes, Parting Shot allows a Wish recipient to receive more of the Wish after taking a hit. No, our CAP is not a reliable Wish user. Its bulk is average at best, and most of the time our CAP is going to be forced out by one of its checks before it can heal itself with Wish.

Toxic Spikes does not interfere with our checks and counters much with the exception of Pyroak, Volcanion, and Volkraken. However, these three are already taking a lot from a STAB Aura Sphere, especially after Stealth Rock. It also helps CAP 22 put pressure on Chansey without having to run a physical STAB that only targets Chansey and one other Pokemon.

Spikes messes with our checks and counters too much. Many of CAP 22's checks are grounded, meaning they will have a lot more difficult time switching into CAP 22 reliably. I get that Spikes is a move that synergizes well with VoltTurn in general, but given that we are making a CAP here, we do not want to give our CAP Spikes if it is going to mess with its checks and counters, which it would.

Both Rapid Spin and Defog would be unique options on CAP 22 in that it can pressure most deterrents of the move, beating Mega Sableye, Revenankh, and Bisharp, and only really losing to Kitsunoh (if we do not give our CAP any coverage). I honestly think CAP 22 has better things to be doing than running hazard removal, but my concerns are mostly just personal bias.

Moonlight outweighs Parting Shot too much. Our CAP could literally just run dual STABs + support move or coverage move + Moonlight instead of running Parting Shot. In addition, our CAP can already hit most of the metagame super effectively, and adding reliable recovery is going to make all of the positive attributes we gave this CAP overkill.

Taunt messes with some of CAP 22's checks and counters a little too much, particularly Fidgit and defensive Talonflame. Stealth Rock + Taunt is pretty much going to ruin defensive Talonflame, a Pokemon that should have no issue beating CAP 22 otherwise. Fidgit is also a mon we want to check CAP 22, and Taunt pretty much keeps it from doing anything it wants to do.

While Wish + Parting Shot may not be the best option, I see no reason why it should be considered a detriment. It's an interesting combination that no other Pokemon has been able to pull off, and the point of this CAP Project is to explore aspects of Parting Shot. Wish + Parting Shot, while not CAP22's best option, is still a neat option to explore.

We cannot give CAP22 hazard removal. Since CAP22 pressures many spinblockers (Mega Sableye) and pokemon that punish Rapid Spin (Ferrothorn and Garchomp) and Defog (Bisharp), giving CAP22 hazard removal would shift focus too far away from Parting Shot.

I sorely disagree with your sentiment on Taunt. We are supposed to threaten passive Pokemon; no other move shuts them down better than Taunt. In addition, if Taunt poses such a detriment to Fidgit, it can run Sludge Bomb to hit CAP22 super effectively. The fact that it resists CAP22's STAB moves is enough. Defensive Talonflame is a worse example to provide, given that this Talonflame set runs Acrobatics and runs Special Defense and HP EVs to further resist CAP22's attacks.

0 Atk Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP22: 224-266 (72.4 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Will add in additional calcs when I get to a computer.

 

[Alfalfa]

While Wish + Parting Shot may not be the best option, I see no reason why it should be considered a detriment. It's an interesting combination that no other Pokemon has been able to pull off, and the point of this CAP Project is to explore aspects of Parting Shot. Wish + Parting Shot, while not CAP22's best option, is still a neat option to explore.

We cannot give CAP22 hazard removal. Since CAP22 pressures many spinblockers (Mega Sableye) and pokemon that punish Rapid Spin (Ferrothorn and Garchomp) and Defog (Bisharp), giving CAP22 hazard removal would shift focus too far away from Parting Shot.

I sorely disagree with your sentiment on Taunt. We are supposed to threaten passive Pokemon; no other move shuts them down better than Taunt. In addition, if Taunt poses such a detriment to Fidgit, it can run Sludge Bomb to hit CAP22 super effectively. The fact that it resists CAP22's STAB moves is enough. Defensive Talonflame is a worse example to provide, given that this Talonflame set runs Acrobatics and runs Special Defense and HP EVs to further resist CAP22's attacks.

0 Atk Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP22: 224-266 (72.4 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Will add in additional calcs when I get to a computer.

Wish is not compatible with the playstyles CAP 22 fits on. Trying to Wish pass in these types of teams is like trying to fit Chansey onto hyper offense - it was a bad idea from the start.

Hazard removal does run that risk of deterring away from Parting Shot. Nowhere did I deny that. I was merely pointing out the advantages CAP 22 would have a hazard remover, given Deck Knight asked us to discuss the possibility of Rapid Spin or Defog.

As I said before, hitting Talonflame with Taunt after it switches in is going to be enough to cripple it. CAP 22 does not need to stay in and take the Acrobatics, it can hard switch to avoid it rather than Parting Shot out.