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CAP 23 - Part 5 - Stat Spread Submissions

Discussion in 'Create-A-Pokémon Project' started by reachzero, Sep 13, 2017.

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  1. reachzero

    reachzero the pastor of disaster
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
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    The time has come for one of the most defining and yet difficult stages, Stats!

    The TL and TLT have worked as a team to develop some Stat Limits for this project, which are listed below. First, an explanation of what Base Stat Rating is can be found here--keep in mind that this is a different system (almost always a better metric than BST) than you may be used to discussing unless you are very accustomed to the CAP process.

    The updated BSR calculator can be found here: https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B0yPinDCLshXUERRd0IyVUxjS1U

    Much thanks to jas61292 for maintaining the calculator.

    About Stat Limits (open)
    These limits will help to define what we consider when making and talking about stat spreads for CAP 22. We will look at limits to CAP 22's physical and special attacking prowess, its physical and special tanking capabilities, and the overall power of its stats.

    This is a relatively tricky aspect of the process if you're not familiar with what it is we're doing and why we're doing it. For that reason, I strongly encourage those who intend to participate to read the entire OP thoroughly and ask questions where needed.

    Be forewarned that there is no poll for this stage of the CAP. The Stats Leader will decide the stat limits for the CAP upon consultation with the TL and TLT.

    Stat Bias Limits

    Stat bias limits set the general stat bias of a Pokemon from an offensive and defensive standpoint. Stat biases are not solely for limiting stats, but they also describe the overall build of the Pokemon in offensive and defensive terms. However, the stat spread is the only part of the project that will be constrained by Stat Bias Limits. There will be four stat biases selected and a total Base Stat Rating (BSR) limit. The Stat Biases are:

    Physical Tankiness (PT)
    The rating of the Pokémon's physical defense.
    Physical Sweepiness (PS)
    The rating of the Pokémon's physical offense.
    Special Tankiness (ST)
    The rating of the Pokémon's special defense.
    Special Sweepiness (SS)
    The rating of the Pokémon's special offense

    If you don't have a spreadsheet program, OpenOffice is free.

    If you're a newer member of CAP, we highly recommend that you do some good lurking during this stage in the process. Read this page thoroughly to understand what exactly we're doing here. If you're still confused, check out some of the old Stat Limits Discussion threads for past CAPs in the CAP Process Archive. If you're still uncomfortable with posting here, then I suggest you watch how experienced users post; you can learn a lot from them!


    Upon discussion with snake_rattler and the TLT team, we decided on the following Stat Limits:

    PT: 138
    ST: 200
    PS: 212
    SS: 110
    BSR: 335


    We set the Physical Tankiness limit relatively low, maxing out right at the average for the CAP metagame top 50. At maximum, with no investment in HP or Defense a Flame Orb Colossoil Pursuit does not quite OHKO if CAP 23 stays in. We chose to keep PT low relative to ST because ST is far more significant for taking on threats we would expect to be able to switch into, like Volkraken and Charizard-Y.

    We set the Special Tankiness limit relatively high based on the reasons listed above. Dragon/Ghost is an outstanding SpD typing, but has less to offer in terms of switching into physical threats.

    Physical Sweepiness is very high because it is the primary (really only) means of offense for this, because we need enough offense to break certain very bulky targets (Tomohawk and Zapdos, for instance), and to allow for a broad range of Attack/Speed combinations.

    Special Sweepiness is very low so as to keep CAP 23 from overwhelming MScizor and Skarmory with special attacks, particularly Hidden Power Fire. Room was made to keep very fast spreads viable without resorting to MBeedrill levels of unsightly low SpA.

    Please note that these limits are maximum values. You need not go up to the maximum for every or any of these limits.

    In addition, please note that we are keenly aware of the limitations of the BSR system for abuse, especially at the margins--very high or very low stats produce technically legal submissions that will never the less be considered BSR abuse and not slated. The classic example of this is using a 150 HP/70 Def/70 SpD stat spread to produce theoretically optimal defenses with technically legal BSR, but other examples would involve extremely low speed with extremely high attack, etc. If I believe your spread includes BSR abuse, I will ask you to justify the extremities involves before I even consider slating your submission.


    - - - - -

    CAP 23 So Far:

    Typing:
    Dragon/Ghost
    Primary Ability: Comatose


    Concept:
    Threats list (open)

    CAP23 should target and dismantle:
    a. Defensive pivots/walls (e.g. doesn't use VoltTurn): Tomohawk, Toxapex, Tangrowth, Arghonaut, Pyroak, Mollux, Mega Venusaur, Zapdos
    If successfully trapped, these Pokemon will have a difficult time against CAP23, through CAP23's offensive coverage or utility.

    CAP23 should target and pressure (Pokemon that have methods to escape CAP23 and should not threaten a healthy CAP23 AND offensive Pokemon that CAP23 naturally checks):
    b. VoltTurn pivots: Landorus-T, Rotom-W, Volkraken, other VoltTurners whose coverage CAP23 resists
    These are VoltTurn pivots we should not lose to. CAP23 has a general type advantage over these, so they should be pressured into switching out, rather than having a free U-turn or Volt Switch.
    c. Offensive Pokemon: Excadrill, Volcarona, Keldeo, Tapu Bulu, Mega Charizard Y, Calm Mind Naviathan, other Pokemon whose coverage CAP23 resists
    CAP23 should generally not lose to Pokemon whose moves are resisted: as such, these Pokemon should fear CAP23 to some degree.

    CAP23 should be checked by:
    d. Offensive Steel-types: Kitsunoh, Dragon Dance Naviathan, Mega Mawile, Bisharp
    e. Ice-types: Syclant, Kyurem-B, Ninetales-A
    These Pokemon have the coverage, bulk, or power to tackle CAP23.
    f. Dragon-types: Zygarde, Mega Charizard X, Latios, Garchomp
    g. Ghost-types: Mimikyu, Kitsunoh, Gengar
    These two types have a type advantage over CAP23, but the reverse is also true, so they are checks.
    h. Dark-types: Ash-Greninja, Greninja, Colossoil, Mega Sableye, Mega Sharpedo, Mega Gyarados
    i. Fairy-types: Tapu Lele, Kerfluffle, Mega Diancie, Mega Gardevoir, Clefable
    These Pokemon have the bulk, super-effective STAB-boosted coverage, or other qualities to check CAP23.

    CAP23 should be countered by:
    j. Skarmory, Celesteela, Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor, Tapu Fini
    These Pokemon generally have the bulk to take on a Ghost-type STAB, resist or are immune to CAP23's Dragon-type STAB, and generally do not care about CAP23's trapping effect. Tapu Fini in particular blocks CAP23's ability to use Toxic.


    Topic Leader: snake_rattler
    Typing Leader: HeaLnDeaL
    Ability Leader: LucarioOfLegends
    Stats Leader: reachzero
    Movepool Leader: cbrevan
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2017
  2. S. Court

    S. Court formerly Victor S. Court

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2014
    Messages:
    267
    Final Submission

    HP 98 / Atk 135 / 80 Def / 47 SpA / 109 SpD / 101 Spe (570 BST)

    PT:
    130.77
    ST: 179.3
    PS: 211.77
    SS: 81.89
    BSR: 334.1

    Preliminary notes (open)
    The approach for this stats spread focus in Draco Plate for general nuking, but it'll need certain Z-Moves to remove certain targets, making it a customizable trapper who can lure targets by making them think they don't have the right tool to beat them. It can use Life Orb for general raw power, but it can miss some important ways to nuke our desired targets, and recoil damage can be undesired in case of Recover/Roost stall, so I'll avoid the Life Orb calcs.

    The offensive calcs will have in mind the next moves as possible CAP23 options: Spirit Shackle, Outrage, Brave Bird, Psychic Fangs, Icicle Crash, Stone Edge.

    Ice Hammer and Head Smash could be considered over Icicle Crash or Stone Edge, but the former puts in risk our valuable speed tier and the second one compromises our longevity.


    Speed (open)
    The biggest achievement this nature has is the ability to bypass Roost + 3 Attacks Zapdos set with a Jolly nature, which is the fastest threat we want to dismantle. As well as Volcarona, Max speed Jolly Landorus-T and Mega Charizard Y which are some of our target and pressure list threats.

    An Adamant nature can be used if those threat are not a major concern, and it'll still be able to outspeed all of the main targets and Adamant Landorus-T.

    Outspeeding Zapdos is important to target it because Zapdos could Roost Stall us to avoid superefective damage (and with Pressure on Zapdos side, Roost stall can be a real trouble) it has a cost and it's the fact we'll lose some checks during the way, but the benefit to succesfully cover all our main targets properly is worthy


    Offense (open)
    135 Atk is selected because it will help us to break with our desired targets, using Draco Plate and Dragonium Z as a general nuking tool, or Flynium Z, Psychium Z, Rockium Z and Icium Z as dedicated luring tools. Let's see how those tools can help CAP23 to fight against our main targets:

    Tomohawk will be probably the hardest target to obliterate, it needs to carefully bring it down to a point when even if Tomohawk uses Roost, being in KO range with Z-Brave Bird

    For this example, I'll use Spirit Shackle, then Brave Bird and then Z-Brave Bird

    Tomohawk Calcs (open)
    Spirit Shackle + Brave Bird + Z-Brave Bird
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 105-124 (25.3 - 29.9%)
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 208-246 (50.2 - 59.4%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    (63 - 76.8%) accumulated damage factoring two turns of Leftovers recovery ((75.5 - 89.3%) if Stealth Rock is in the field)

    In this moment, Tomohawk would use Roost, and this would be the moment when CAP23 can use Z-Brave Bird

    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 328-388 (79.2 - 93.7%)


    You might thing this will be a specific, and you're right. If we add to this the recoil damage and possibly attacks from Tomohawk, CAP23 can end really hurt in the process. We alternatively can use Life Orb and Psychic Fangs to heavily pressure Tomohawk, even when we could end with a considerable chip damage to Life Orb's recoil. Even when all the considered points, CAP23 can beat defensive Tomohawk.

    Needless to say but Offensive Tomohawk loses to either Z-Psychic Fangs, Z-Brave Bird, and an almost guaranteed OHKO to Z-Outrage variants
    __________
    Tangrowth is a special case because we need to pay attention to both sets: Assault Vest and Physically defensive

    Assault Vest is the most common and fortunatelly the easier to beat. Spirit Shackle into either Z-Brave Bird or Z-Icicle Crash will give us the KO

    AV Tangrowth Calcs (open)
    Spirit Shackle + Z-Icicle Crash
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tangrowth: 111-132 (27.4 - 32.6%)
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Subzero Slammer (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tangrowth: 294-348 (72.7 - 86.1%)
    (100.1 - 118.7%) accumulated damage

    Spirit Shackle + Z-Brave Bird
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tangrowth: 111-132 (27.4 - 32.6%)
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tangrowth: 350-414 (86.6 - 102.4%)
    I won't even bother this time adding the damage, it's a clean KO with this chip damage


    Physically defensive Tangrowth will receive the KO with the mix of Spirit Shackle + Z-Brave Stealth Rock in the field. Z-Icicle Crash is inconsisten in this aspect
    ________
    Toxapex
    will need some work, but between Stealth Rock, Spirit Shackle damage and Z-Psychic Fangs, CAP 23 is able to defeat it

    Thapex Calcs (open)
    Spirit Shackle + Z-Psychic Fangs
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 76-90 (25 - 29.6%)
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 200-236 (65.7 - 77.6%)
    (96.95 - 113.02%) Acumulated damage factorizing Black Sludge recovery and Stealth Rock damage
    (103.2 - 119.7%) Acumulated damage factorizing Stealth Rock damage only (for Shed Shell sets)

    __________
    Arghonaut doesn't have too much of a chance, falling to a good amount of options. From most to less effective answers: Z-Brave Bird, Z-Psychic Fangs, Spirit Shackle into Z-Outrage, Spirit Shackle into Brave Bird, Spirit Shackle into Draco Plate Outrage

    Arghonaut Calcs (open)
    Spirit Shackle + Z-Outrage
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Spirit Shackle vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 141-166 (35.1 - 41.3%)
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 333-393 (83 - 98%)
    (111.85 - 133.05%) the acumulated damage factorizing Leftovers recovery

    Spirit Shackle + Brave Bird
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Spirit Shackle vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 141-166 (35.1 - 41.3%)
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Brave Bird vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 282-332 (70.3 - 82.7%)
    (99.15 - 177.75%) the acumulated damage factorizing Leftovers recovery


    Spirit Shackle + Draco Plate Outrage
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Spirit Shackle vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 141-166 (35.1 - 41.3%)
    252 Atk Draco Plate Giratina-Origin Outrage vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 253-298 (63 - 74.3%)
    (91.85 - 109.35%) the acumulated damage factorizing Leftovers recovery

    Z-Brave Bird 252 Atk Giratina-Origin Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 444-524 (110.7 - 130.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Z-Psychic Fangs 252 Atk Giratina-Origin Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 374-442 (93.2 - 110.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    ____________
    Pyroak can be beaten with Stealth Rock in the field, and using Z-Outrage, Z-Stone Edge or Z-Brave Bird in tandem with Spirit Shackle's previous damage. It might need some prior damage in Z-Outrage sets, but not too much.

    Pyroak calcs (open)
    Spirit Shackle + Z-Brave Bird
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 94-112 (21.2 - 25.2%)
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 296-350 (66.8 - 79%)
    (106.5 - 122.7%) accumulated damage of both attacks factoring Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    Spirit Shackle + Z-Stone Edge
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 94-112 (21.2 - 25.2%)
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 282-332 (63.6 - 74.9%)
    (103.3 - 118.6%) accumulated damage of both attacks factoring Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    Spirit Shackle + Z-Outrage
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 94-112 (21.2 - 25.2%)
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 222-262 (50.1 - 59.1%)
    (89.8 - 102.8%) accumulated damage of both attacks factoring Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery


    __________
    Mollux can be beaten mixing Spirit Shackle and Draco Plate Outrage (which has a high chance to OHKO with Stealth Rock in the field) and it's OHKO by Z-Psychic Fangs. Even Z-Outrage can OHKO it

    Mollux Calcs (open)
    Spirit Shackle + Draco Plate Outrage
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mollux: 157-186 (39.8 - 47.2%)
    252 Atk Draco Plate Giratina-Origin Outrage vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mollux: 280-331 (71 - 84%)
    (104.55 - 124.95) the acumulated damage factorizing Black Sludge recovery

    Z-Outrage 252 Atk Giratina-Origin Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mollux: 372-438 (94.4 - 111.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

    Z-Psychic Fangs 252 Atk Giratina-Origin Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mollux: 418-492 (106 - 124.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    ____________
    Mega Venusaur is irreparably beaten mixing Spirit Shackle damage and Z-Psychic Fangs. Alternatively, CAP23 can use Z-Brave Bird with some prior damage (or Stealth Rock) to OHKO

    Mega Venusaur calcs (open)
    Spirit Shackle + Z-Psychic Fangs
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Venusaur-Mega: 105-124 (28.9 - 34.1%)
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Venusaur-Mega: 280-330 (77.1 - 90.9%)
    (106 - 125%) accumulated damage of both attacks

    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Venusaur-Mega: 330-390 (90.9 - 107.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    __________
    Zapdos is one of the hardest one to beat with this stats spread, but CAP23 has the enough tools to play around and beat it: Draco Plate Outrage can OHKO after Stealth Rock Damage. Stone Edge (and by extension, the possible Ice Hammer) has a similar effect (but it's a damage roll in favor of Zapdos) and Z-Icicle Crash and Z-Stone Edge will get the OHKO

    Zapdos Calcs (open)
    252 Atk Draco Plate Giratina-Origin Outrage vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Zapdos: 274-324 (71.5 - 84.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Ice Hammer/Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Zapdos: 256-302 (66.8 - 78.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Subzero Slammer (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Zapdos: 408-480 (106.5 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Zapdos: 458-540 (119.5 - 140.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO



    Heck, we don't even need Stealth Rock, with Spirit Shackle's prior damage, CAP23 can then KO Zapdos with Stone Edge

    More Zapdos calcs (open)
    Spirit Shackle + Stone Edge
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Zapdos: 153-181 (39.9 - 47.2%)
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Zapdos: 256-302 (66.8 - 78.8%)


    (39.9 - 47.2%) - 6.25 (Leftovers recovery) + (66.8 - 78.8%) = (100.45 - 119.75%) Spirit Shackle and Stone Edge can bring down Zapdos


    Our other targets struggle against CAP23 too: Offensive Landorus-T variants are OHKO by Icicle Crash if Stealth Rock is in the field, and defensive variants are 2HKO by the same attack (you could use Z-Icicle Crash to OHKO it if you wish). Rotom-W, Volkraken, Keldeo, Mega Charizard Y and Volcarona are OHKO/2HKO by Draco Plate Outrage without worring too much about its attacks. Tapu Bulu is 2HKO by Icicle Crash, has a high chance to be OHKO by Brave Bird after Stealth Rock and it's obliterated by either Z-Brave Bird or Z-Icicle Crash.

    47 SpA is just to be sure Hiden Power Fire can't scratch too much our desired counters, even with Naive nature at the poin of making this move unusable

    HP Fire with Naive nature (open)
    0 SpA Giratina Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Skarmory: 64-76 (19.2 - 22.8%) -- possible 5HKO
    0 SpA Giratina Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Celesteela: 44-52 (11 - 13%) -- possibly the worst move ever
    0 SpA Giratina Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 76-92 (21.5 - 26.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
    0 SpA Giratina Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scizor-Mega: 96-116 (27.9 - 33.8%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO


    HP (open)
    With 8 EV in HP, CAP23 can reach 339 of HP, being a good number to use for possible Life Orb sets (it can remove the 4 extra EV from speed, it'll be still faster than Zapdos, which is the desired speed tier we want to bypass


    Defense (open)
    98 HP/80 Def allow CAP23 to avoid the OHKO from Flame Orb Pursuit Colossoil even after Stealth Rock damage if CAP23 decides to stay in the field.

    Colossoil

    252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina-Origin: 248-294 (73.5 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    98 HP/109 SpD allows CAP23 to resist Specs Hydro Pump/Fire Blast Volkraken, as well a +1 Inferno Overdrive or Savage Spin-Out Volcarona and avoid 2HKO from Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast without rocks in the field (and it's a clean 3HKO from Flamethrower)

    Volkraken

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 8 SpD Giratina: 140-165 (41.5 - 48.9%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (we can nuke Specs Volkraken with Draco Plate Outrage before it tries to beat us)

    Volcarona

    +1 252 SpA Volcarona Inferno Overdrive (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 8 SpD Giratina: 214-252 (63.5 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    +1 252 SpA Volcarona Savage Spin-Out (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 8 SpD Giratina: 203-239 (60.2 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Mega Charizard Y

    252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 8 SpD Giratina in Sun: 118-140 (35 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 8 SpD Giratina in Sun: 144-171 (42.7 - 50.7%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    What about our targets? Well, I'll put in consideraton our highest damage output options under normal circunstances

    Target's damage output (open)
    0 SpA Tomohawk Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 8 SpD Giratina: 84-100 (24.9 - 29.6%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 0 HP / 8 SpD Giratina: 24-29 (7.1 - 8.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever (and it can use Toxic on us, so... Yeah, it's doomed)
    0 Atk Tangrowth Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 112-134 (33.2 - 39.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    0 Atk Tangrowth Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 170-200 (50.4 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    220+ Atk Arghonaut Knock Off vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 164-194 (48.3 - 57.2%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
    220+ Atk Arghonaut Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 244-288 (71.9 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    0 SpA Pyroak Lava Plume vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 38-45 (11.2 - 13.3%) -- possible 8HKO
    0 SpA Mollux Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 57-67 (16.8 - 19.8%) -- guaranteed 6HKO
    0 SpA Venusaur-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 54-63 (15.9 - 18.6%) -- possible 6HKO
    0 SpA Zapdos Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 98-116 (28.9 - 34.3%) -- 2.9% chance to 3HKO


    As you can see, only Tangrowth and Arghonaut are a trouble to Draco Plate sets if they carry Knock Off, but CAP23 is faster than them and can obliterate them before they achieve the KO

    What about our checks?

    Checks damage output (open)
    252 Atk Choice Band Kitsunoh Shadow Strike vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 402-474 (118.5 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 252 Atk Guts Naviathan Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 471-555 (138.9 - 163.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (with Naviathan resistance to suggested coverage moves, it can take a hit to boost itself)
    +1 252 Atk Guts Naviathan Heavy Slam (80 BP) vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 313-370 (92.3 - 109.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 348-410 (102.6 - 120.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 294-348 (86.7 - 102.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 408-482 (120.3 - 142.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Syclant Ice Beam vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 328-385 (96.7 - 113.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    8 SpA Ninetales-Alola Blizzard vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 186-222 (54.8 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and hail damage (Moonblast has a similar result, but Freeze-Dry will need a layer of Spikes or previous damage to get a 2HKO)
    252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 396-468 (116.8 - 138%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 474-558 (139.8 - 164.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Life Orb Mimikyu Play Rough vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 398-468 (117.4 - 138%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 315-374 (92.9 - 110.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 410-486 (120.9 - 143.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 304-359 (89.6 - 105.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Sucker Punch vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 434-512 (128 - 151%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo-Mega Crunch vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 546-644 (161 - 189.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Crunch vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 360-426 (106.1 - 125.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 288-342 (84.9 - 100.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Life Orb Kerfluffle Moonblast vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 346-408 (102 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 SpA Diancie-Mega Moonblast vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 338-398 (99.7 - 117.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 186-218 (54.8 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


    There are some I didn't bother to make a calc due to the fact they are outspeeded by CAP23, so that's not a good cas to consider them checks


    Counters (open)
    The strongest damage output CAP23 has against our counter is Z-Spirit Shackle, which realistically, can disrupt our ability to deal with our threats, so I considered Z-Stone Edge as the strongest damage output in this case. The thing is even with Z-Stone Edge, the damage is not that enough to bypass them, excepting Tapu Fini, which can be considered a hard check in this case

    252 Atk Giratina Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Scizor-Mega: 115-136 (33.5 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 Atk Giratina Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 115-136 (34.5 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 Atk Giratina Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 158-186 (39.6 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 68-80 (19.3 - 22.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tapu Fini: 178-210
    (51.8 - 61.2%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    So now we know, excepting Tapu Fini, they can't be scratched too much, what they can do back?

    Well, Skarmory can phaze it, use it to set spikes, Roost stall it and probably use Brave Bird as possible damage output, which can 3HKO CAP23.

    Mega-Scizor can 3HKO CAP23 with Bullet Punch, can use U-turn to bring a safer option against CAP23, and can Roost stall us

    Celesteela can 2HKO CAP23 with Heavy Slam (which will probably always be 120 BP) after Stealth Rock Damage, avoid a possible Z-Move with Protect, and use Leech Seed to stall us

    Ferrothorn can do something similar: Leech Seed stall, set Spikes and 2HKO Draco Plate/Life Orb CAP23 variants with Knock Off (3HKO Z-Crystal holding variants)

    Fini can 2HKO CAP23 with Moonblast, but Fini can be pressured, so it's the least reliable Pokemon in our counter list


    How does CAP deal with out threats list? (open)
    CAP23 has a favorable match-up agains this threat
    CAP23 has an unfavorable match-up against this threat
    (Additionl comments)

    CAP23 should target and dismantle:
    a. Defensive pivots/walls (e.g. doesn't use VoltTurn): Tomohawk (hardest match-up in this category by a wide margin, but is possible with careful customization, Stealth Rock damage is desired as well), Toxapex, Tangrowth (Physically defensive Tangrowth can avoide the KO with the mix of Spirit Shackle and Z-Icicle Crash, but both options (Z-Icicle Crash and Z-Brave Bird) work against AV Tangrowth), Arghonaut, Pyroak (Z-Outrage sets will need some prior damage, but Z-Stone Edge and Z-Brave Bird sets can obliterate it), Mollux, Mega Venusaur, Zapdos

    CAP23 should target and pressure:
    b. VoltTurn pivots: Landorus-T, Rotom-W, Volkraken, other VoltTurners whose coverage CAP23 resists
    c. Offensive Pokemon: Excadrill, Volcarona, Keldeo, Tapu Bulu, Mega Charizard Y, Calm Mind Naviathan (With the suggested coverage moves, we can't scratch CM Naviathan, and it can use CAP23 as setup fodder), other Pokemon whose coverage CAP23 resists

    CAP23 should be checked by:
    d. Offensive Steel-types: Kitsunoh, Dragon Dance Naviathan, Mega Mawile, Bisharp
    e. Ice-types: Syclant, Kyurem-B (At least it for some reason uses a Choice Scarf, CAP23 will always outspeed it and OHKO with Outrage), Ninetales-A
    f. Dragon-types: Zygarde (Similar case than Kyurem-B, excepting it has a chance if it's in a Aurora Veil based team), Mega Charizard X (At least it has a Dragon Dance boost, we'll be faster than it, and we're assuming it can enter to the field and check us, so it's not a check imo), Latios, Garchomp
    g. Ghost-types: Mimikyu, Kitsunoh, Gengar
    h. Dark-types: Ash-Greninja, Greninja, Colossoil (The only exception is if we win the 50/50 chance with Pursuit and we use Z-Outrage or Z-Icicle Crash, but it's a general bad match-up for CAP23), Mega Sableye (Dragonium Z sets will pressure Mega Sableye too much, Knock Off won't do too much damage to Z-Crystal sets and Mega Sableye can't burn CAP23 thanks to Comatose), Mega Sharpedo, Mega Gyarados
    i. Fairy-types: Tapu Lele (If there is not Stealth Rock in the field, it's a 2HKO and CAP23 can beat it with Spirit Shackle), Kerfluffle, Mega Diancie, Mega Gardevoir (We can outspeed it and OHKO with Spirit Shackle, but Adamant nature will lose against Mega Gardevoir), Clefable

    CAP23 should be countered by:
    j. Skarmory, Celesteela, Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor, Tapu Fini (even when can't be considered a counter per se if CAP23 uses Z-Stone Edge variants, it's a hard check and can 2HKO CAP23 with Moonblast)

    Personal additions as negative match ups: Weavile (Banded sets WILL start to rise after Dugtrio ban as stall's dedicated trapper, and can heavlily pressure it with a better speed tier, Pursuit and bot STAB), Tapu Koko (it's not explicitly specified in Fairy type Pokemon, but I think it acts as a check: Fairium Z sets are a clean OHKO and Dazzling Gleam can 2HKO it), Alomomola (Alomomola is kind of weird, but it can act as a hard check becaus the damage output CAP23 has is kind of dissapointing against it. Draco Plate Outrage can only 3HKO it with Stealth Rock on the field, it can use Protect to avoid Z-Outrage, and Wish + Protect can stall Life Orb sets and kill it with recoil damage and Scald -and probably Rocky Helmet- chip damage, Spikes and possible Toxic can compromise its ability to check CAP23)


    Conclusion (open)
    With this EV spread, CAP23 will be a customizable trapper which might not be able to take all the desired targets in a whole set, but it has the enough tools to bypass the desired targets and making it unpredictable to lure the desired targets. It has troubles against more offensive teams despite the highly optimized spread, and offensive pivots will put enough pressure to CAP23 to make it balanced
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  3. mxmts

    mxmts

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2015
    Messages:
    209
    Final Submission

    100 HP/138 Atk/65 Def/55 SpA/110 SpD/92 Spe (BST: 560)

    PT: 108,934
    ST: 183,294
    PS: 191,836
    SS: 88,7711
    BSR: 311,54885


    Explanation (open)
    The idea behind this spread is to give us a great amount of power and special bulk, in exchange for a mediocre speed tier and low physical defense.

    138 Atk: I think we need an incredible Attack to reliably KO our targets, particularly Tomohawk, which even with a Super-effective move will be hard to deal with, because of the combination of priority Roost and Rocky Helmet damage. 138 Atk guarantees that 190 BP Supersonic Skystrike followed by either Shadow Sneak or a round of Infestation damage will KO Tomohawk, while also breaking past the rest of our targets with the appropriate coverage.

    55 SpA: Special Attack is kept at minimum to avoid messing with Mega Scizor. This particular number means that without investing, even with a Life Orb you will fail to 2HKO it 99.8% of the times.

    92 Spe: I strongly disagree with the idea that we need speed, our main targets are supposed to be walls, and most offensive pivots can't risk switching into a neutral STAB more than a few times a game, so trying to outpace them is unnecessary, and risk turning CAP23 into a beatstick, while a relatively low stat keeps us more focused on our concept as a dedicated trapper. The only target that can outspeed us is Zapdos, who can be reliably beaten with strong neutral attacks, using Ground coverage when it attempts to Roost, or simply nuking it with Subzero Slammer/Continental Crush. It should also be noted that with a Jolly nature, this still lets us outspeed Adamant Colossoil and Zygarde.

    100 HP: This stat helps by giving us some bulk and means that Leech Seed users will recover a decent amount of health, making Ferrothorn and Celesteela better suited for taking on CAP23.

    65 Def: This is supposed to be our Achilles's Heel, so it's purposefully poor, most notably being 2HKO by Ferrothorn, Celesteela and Scizor, and being KO'ed by Colossoil Pursuit after just a tiny bit of damage.

    110 SpD: On the other hand, the special bulk is quite good, this helps tanking hits like Char-Y's Fire Blast, Defensive Zapdos HP Ice, Tomohawk Air Slash, and even avoids some OHKO like Timid Tapu Lele Moonblast, while still being 2HKO by Krilowatt.

    Calcs (open)

    Offensive

    252+ Atk Giratina-Origin Supersonic Skystrike (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 386-456 (93.2 - 110.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
    252+ Atk Giratina-Origin Supersonic Skystrike (200 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 350-412 (79 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Giratina-Origin Supersonic Skystrike (200 BP) vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Tangrowth: 318-376 (78.9 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Giratina-Origin Supersonic Skystrike (200 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 312-368 (85.9 - 101.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
    252+ Atk Giratina-Origin Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 364-430 (95 - 112.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
    252+ Atk Giratina-Origin Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 140-166 (46 - 54.6%) -- 58.2% chance to 2HKO
    252 Atk Giratina-Origin Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Colossoil: 178-211 (43.7 - 51.8%) -- 70.3% chance to 2HKO after burn damage
    252+ Atk Giratina-Origin Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 118-139 (29.6 - 34.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Giratina-Origin Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 85-102 (25.5 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

    Physically defensive
    252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina-Origin: 294-348 (86.2 - 102%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Guts Colossoil Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina-Origin: 270-318 (79.1 - 93.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    0 Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina-Origin: 186-219 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina-Origin: 219-258 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    0 Atk Scizor-Mega Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina-Origin: 190-224 (55.7 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Specially defensive
    252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Giratina-Origin: 299-354 (87.6 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
    0 SpA Zapdos Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Giratina-Origin: 98-116 (28.7 - 34%) -- 0.8% chance to 3HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Krilowatt Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Giratina-Origin: 174-205 (51 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Giratina-Origin: 182-216 (53.3 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Giratina-Origin: 288-338 (84.4 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Syclant Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Giratina-Origin: 322-382 (94.4 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
    252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Giratina-Origin in Sun: 144-169 (42.2 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    0 SpA Mollux Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Giratina-Origin: 56-66 (16.4 - 19.3%) -- possible 6HKO

    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  4. Kyubics

    Kyubics

    Joined:
    May 31, 2016
    Messages:
    155
    WIP

    90 HP / 127 Atk / 78 Def / 58 SpA / 116 SpD / 96 Spe

    PT: 120.504
    ST: 180.313
    PS: 184.331
    SS: 92.3398
    BSR: 315.96035


    Just putting this out there and I will edit in my descriptions and reasoning when I have time. Overall I have tried to aim for a bulkier, slightly less fast and powerful stat spread. Attack and Defense are the stats most likely to be tweaked in the near future.
  5. Blackdrakon30

    Blackdrakon30

    Joined:
    May 13, 2015
    Messages:
    313
    WIP

    84 HP / 120 Atk / 92 Def / 64 SpA / 100 SpD / 102 Spe

    PT: 135.2
    ST: 149.5
    PS: 185.33
    SS: 103.34
    BSR: 307.49

    I'm still tweaking the stats a ton, so don't take anything here as final. The only thing I definitely want is the 102 speed. I really think 102 speed is ideal because we want more than 100 speed in my opinion to outspeed the likes of Zapdos and Volcarona, but we need less than 110 speed so Gengar and Kitsunoh can safely check us. I considered 109 speed, to outspeed Keldeo, but decided against it.

    102 seems ideal to me because it is just enough to tie with Garchomp, meaning Garchomp can't guarantee the outspeed again CAP23. We want Garchomp as a check, but I feel like we shouldn't let Garchomp be a reliable revenge killer. Just my thoughts.

    UPDATE: Changed my HP and Defense stat to reflect DK's; honestly, it seems like the best choice. I like the logic behind it a lot. Deck, if you'd rather I not, you can just let me know.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  6. Shasimo

    Shasimo

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2014
    Messages:
    19
    WIP

    86 HP / 146 Atk / 86 Def / 57 SpA / 122 SpD / 92 Spe

    PT : 128,565
    ST : 184,102
    PS : 204,05
    SS : 89
    BSR : 334,404

    Explanations :

    86 HP/86 Def : We want to build an offensive CAP, the investment in EV have to be considered as minimal. What does a 86 HP/86 Def allow without EV ? Two things mostly :

    252 Atk Tapu Bulu Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp in Grassy Terrain: 264-311 (84.3 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
    252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 258-304 (82.4 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    It avoids to be OHKO by two threats very common and dangerous, Z-move Tapu bulu and Pinsir-Mega.

    86 HP/122 SpD : That's a good bulk. We need that. Our amazing typing allow us to resist to the coverage of some wallbreakers. It sucks if we cannot have the bulk to handle one or two hits of them.

    +2 252 SpA Volcarona Inferno Overdrive (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 261-308 (83.3 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 102-120 (32.5 - 38.3%) -- 97.4% chance to 3HKO (With Analytic Boost, Scarf Volk)
    252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 113-133 (36.1 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp in Sun: 132-156 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    4 SpA Cyclohm Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 122-144 (38.9 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    146 Atk : High Atk Stat (Approximately the same than Lando). I think 130 is too low for CAP23. Just look at the calc I did at the last topic to understand why we absolutely need to get the necessary strength to deal with our targets (and dont forget we have chosen a defensive ability). So 146 Atk looks perfect for me in doing that :

    252 Atk Garchomp Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 288-340 (75.1 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Garchomp Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Marowak-Alola: 264-312 (101.1 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 Atk Garchomp Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Marowak-Alola: 264-312 (81.7 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Garchomp Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cyclohm: 434-512 (103.3 - 121.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    57 SpA : Nothing special except avoiding the 2HKO with HP fire on Scizor-mega without EV :
    0 SpA Garchomp Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Scizor-Mega: 112-136 (39.8 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    92 Spe : With 92 Spe, CAP23 outspeeds stuff like Tomohawk, Cyclohm, Necturna, Argo, Tapu Bulu, Landorus-T (We OHKO Offensive Lando with Ice Hammer), etc... in being outspeed by dragons we want that they check CAP23 like Kyu-B, Zygarde, Garchomp and mons like Colossoil.

    Thanks for reading ~
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  7. david0895

    david0895

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Messages:
    528
    WIP

    85 HP / 135 Atk / 88 Def / 50 SpA / 111 SpD / 96 Spe (565 BST)
    84 HP / 130 Atk / 93 Def / 51 SpA / 101 SpD / 96 Spe (565 BST)

    PT: 136.677
    ST: 150.9674
    PS: 189.137
    SS: 84.18339
    BSR: 305.16565


    Not my final version but I'm pretty sure on Speed, because i found necessary outspeeding Jolly Landorus-T and Timid Specs Volkraken since they can do heavy damage. 100+ stuff is not relevant because they have no moves to damage CAP23 outside of HP Ice/Icy Wind, anyway they can't OHKO it, while CAP23 can with the right coverage move

    Edit: HP is reduced to fit perfectly in a Life Orb set. Atk and SpD are reduced because they stopped Tapu Lele and Tapu Fini in doing their job of checking/countering CAP23

    Set used:

    CAP23 @ Z-Crystals / Life Orb
    Ability: Comatose
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Outrage
    - Spirit Shackle
    - Brave Bird
    - Stone Edge / Icicle Crash / Psychic Fangs

    It can't win against the target / CAP23
    Under certain conditions, it can't win against the target / CAP23


    Target and dismantle (open)

    Tomohawk:

    252 Atk Giratina Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 204-240 (49.2 - 57.9%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 204-240 (49.2 - 57.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 265-312 (64 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 320-378 (77.2 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 320-378 (77.2 - 91.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    0 SpA Tomohawk Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 91-108 (29.4 - 34.9%) -- 9.7% chance to 3HKO
    0 SpA Tomohawk Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 91-108 (29.4 - 34.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

    Toxapex:

    252 Atk Giratina Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 104-124 (34.2 - 40.7%) -- 50.8% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 104-124 (34.2 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 135-161 (44.4 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 135-161 (44.4 - 52.9%) -- 83.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 194-230 (63.8 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

    0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 26-31 (8.4 - 10%) -- possible 9HKO after Stealth Rock

    Tangrowth:

    252 Atk Giratina Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Tangrowth: 168-198 (41.6 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 Atk Giratina Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Tangrowth: 168-198 (41.6 - 49.1%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Tangrowth: 218-257 (54 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Giratina Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Tangrowth: 264-312 (65.5 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    0 SpA Tangrowth Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 94-112 (30.4 - 36.2%) -- 45.2% chance to 3HKO
    0 SpA Tangrowth Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 94-112 (30.4 - 36.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    0 Atk Tangrowth Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 102-120 (33 - 38.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    0 Atk Tangrowth Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 148-176 (47.8 - 56.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Arghonaut:

    252 Atk Giratina Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 274-324 (66.1 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 356-421 (85.9 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 356-421 (85.9 - 101.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Giratina Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 432-510 (104.3 - 123.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Pyroak:

    252 Atk Giratina Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 182-216 (41 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 182-216 (41 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 237-281 (53.4 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 290-342 (65.4 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 290-342 (65.4 - 77.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    0 SpA Pyroak Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 41-48 (13.2 - 15.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock
    0 SpA Pyroak Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 38-45 (12.2 - 14.5%) -- possible 7HKO after Stealth Rock

    Mollux:

    252 Atk Giratina Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mollux: 254-300 (64.4 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mollux: 254-300 (64.4 - 76.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mollux: 330-390 (83.7 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mollux: 330-390 (83.7 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Giratina Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mollux: 456-538 (115.7 - 136.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    0 SpA Mollux Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 54-64 (17.4 - 20.7%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
    0 SpA Mollux Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 60-72 (19.4 - 23.3%) -- 18.5% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock

    Mega Venusaur:

    252 Atk Giratina Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Venusaur-Mega: 204-242 (56.1 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Venusaur-Mega: 265-315 (73 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Giratina Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Venusaur-Mega: 322-380 (88.7 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Giratina Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Venusaur-Mega: 322-380 (88.7 - 104.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    0 SpA Venusaur-Mega Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 48-57 (15.5 - 18.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
    0 SpA Venusaur-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 57-67 (18.4 - 21.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Stealth Rock

    Zapdos:

    252 Atk Giratina Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 178-210 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 178-210 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 231-273 (60.3 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 316-374 (82.5 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 316-374 (82.5 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    0 SpA Zapdos Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 104-124 (33.6 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock



    Target and presssure (open)

    Offensive Landorus-T:

    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 277-328 (86.8 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 277-328 (86.8 - 102.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Giratina Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 339-399 (106.2 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 Atk Giratina Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 285-336 (89.3 - 105.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 207-244 (66.9 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 361-426 (116.8 - 137.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 138-163 (44.6 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Defensive Landorus-T:

    252 Atk Giratina Outrage vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 156-184 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Outrage vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 156-184 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Outrage vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 203-239 (53.1 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 246-291 (64.3 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 159-187 (51.4 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Rotom-Wash:

    252 Atk Giratina Outrage vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Rotom-Wash: 136-162 (44.8 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Outrage vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Rotom-Wash: 136-162 (44.8 - 53.4%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Outrage vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Rotom-Wash: 177-211 (58.4 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Rotom-Wash: 216-255 (71.2 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    0 SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 61-72 (19.7 - 23.3%) -- 31.2% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock

    Volkraken:

    252 Atk Giratina Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Volkraken: 262-310 (76.6 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Giratina Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Volkraken: 262-310 (76.6 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 195-231 (63.1 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Volkraken Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 195-231 (63.1 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Malaconda:

    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 515-606 (118.6 - 139.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Fidgit:

    252 Atk Giratina Outrage vs. 252 HP / 36+ Def Fidgit: 160-190 (40.6 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Outrage vs. 252 HP / 36+ Def Fidgit: 208-247 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Outrage vs. 252 HP / 36+ Def Fidgit: 208-247 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 36+ Def Fidgit: 255-300 (64.7 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

    0- Atk Fidgit Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 72-86 (23.3 - 27.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
    0 SpA Fidgit Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 88-105 (28.4 - 33.9%) -- 98.7% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    0- Atk Fidgit Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 108-128 (34.9 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

    Cyclohm:

    252 Atk Giratina Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cyclohm: 254-300 (60.4 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cyclohm: 330-390 (78.5 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cyclohm: 330-390 (78.5 - 92.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Giratina Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cyclohm: 398-470 (94.7 - 111.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Giratina Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cyclohm: 398-470 (94.7 - 111.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    4 SpA Cyclohm Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 142-168 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO
    4 SpA Cyclohm Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 142-168 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Magnezone:

    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 140 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 117-138 (37 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 140 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 152-179 (48.1 - 56.6%) -- 87.1% chance to 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 140 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 152-179 (48.1 - 56.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Giratina Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 140 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 232-274 (73.4 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    192+ SpA Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 136-162 (44 - 52.4%) -- 17.2% chance to 2HKO
    192+ SpA Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 136-162 (44 - 52.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Defensive Pelipper:

    252 Atk Giratina Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 32+ Def Pelipper: 192-228 (59.4 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 32+ Def Pelipper: 250-296 (77.3 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 32+ Def Pelipper: 250-296 (77.3 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    0 SpA Pelipper Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina in Rain: 61-72 (19.7 - 23.3%) -- 31.2% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock

    Choice Specs Pelipper:

    252 Atk Giratina Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pelipper: 218-258 (83.5 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Giratina Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pelipper: 218-258 (83.5 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pelipper: 283-335 (108.4 - 128.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Excadrill:

    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 196-232 (54.2 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 255-302 (70.6 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Giratina Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 393-463 (108.8 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 231-274 (74.7 - 88.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Volcarona:

    252 Atk Giratina Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 372-438 (119.6 - 140.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 92-108 (29.7 - 34.9%) -- 16.1% chance to 3HKO
    252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 92-108 (29.7 - 34.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    +1 252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 137-162 (44.3 - 52.4%) -- 18.4% chance to 2HKO
    +1 252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 137-162 (44.3 - 52.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    +1 252 SpA Volcarona Inferno Overdrive (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 231-272 (74.7 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +1 252 SpA Volcarona Inferno Overdrive (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 231-272 (74.7 - 88%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Volcarona Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 136-160 (44 - 51.7%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO
    252 SpA Volcarona Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 136-160 (44 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    +1 252 SpA Volcarona Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 202-238 (65.3 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Keldeo:

    252 Atk Giratina Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 286-338 (88.5 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Giratina Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 286-338 (88.5 - 104.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 372-439 (115.1 - 135.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 120-142 (38.8 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 120-142 (38.8 - 45.9%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 132-156 (42.7 - 50.4%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 132-156 (42.7 - 50.4%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 178-210 (57.6 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Tapu Bulu:

    252 Atk Giratina Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu: 232-274 (82.5 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu: 232-274 (82.5 - 97.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu: 302-356 (107.4 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252 Atk Tapu Bulu Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 116-137 (37.5 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
    252 Atk Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina in Grassy Terrain: 156-185 (50.4 - 59.8%) -- 85.2% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
    252 Atk Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina in Grassy Terrain: 156-185 (50.4 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
    252 Atk Tapu Bulu Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina in Grassy Terrain: 248-292 (80.2 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
    252 Atk Tapu Bulu Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina in Grassy Terrain: 248-292 (80.2 - 94.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Mega Charizard Y:

    252 Atk Giratina Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 536-632 (180.4 - 212.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 152-180 (49.1 - 58.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina in Sun: 155-183 (50.1 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Calm Mind Naviathan:

    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 216 HP / 244+ Def Naviathan: 102-121 (25.4 - 30.1%) -- 34.6% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 216 HP / 244+ Def Naviathan: 133-157 (33.1 - 39.1%) -- 74.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 216 HP / 244+ Def Naviathan: 204-240 (50.8 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery


    Checks (open)

    Kitsunoh:

    252 Atk Life Orb Kitsunoh Shadow Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 307-367 (99.3 - 118.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Kitsunoh Shadow Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 307-367 (99.3 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Dragon Dance Naviathan:

    252 Atk Naviathan Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 176-208 (56.9 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Naviathan Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 186-219 (60.1 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Guts Naviathan Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 279-328 (90.2 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Guts Naviathan Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 279-328 (90.2 - 106.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Naviathan: 187-220 (53.8 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Giratina Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Naviathan: 286-337 (82.4 - 97.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Mega Mawile:

    252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 590-696 (190.9 - 225.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 306-362 (99 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
    252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 306-362 (99 - 117.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 109-129 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 109-129 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 54.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 142-168 (56.5 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    52 Atk Giratina Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 216-255 (86 - 101.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Giratina Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 216-255 (86 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Giratina Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 216-255 (81.8 - 96.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Bisharp:

    252 Atk Bisharp Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 218-260 (70.5 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 236-282 (76.3 - 91.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    52 Atk Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 330-390 (106.7 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 127-151 (46.8 - 55.7%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 127-151 (46.8 - 55.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Giratina Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 155-183 (57.1 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Syclant:

    252 SpA Syclant (Focus Sash) Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 266-314 (86 - 101.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
    252 SpA Syclant (Focus Sash) Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 266-314 (86 - 101.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Life Orb Syclant Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 346-408 (111.9 - 132%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Kyurem-Black:

    252 Atk Giratina Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 392-464 (100.2 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Ninetales-Alola:

    8 SpA Ninetales-Alola Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 128-152 (41.4 - 49.1%) -- 17.2% chance to 2HKO after hail damage
    8 SpA Ninetales-Alola Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 128-152 (41.4 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and hail damage

    252 Atk Giratina Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ninetales-Alola with an ally's Aurora Veil: 139-164 (39.8 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 Atk Giratina Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ninetales-Alola with an ally's Aurora Veil: 139-164 (39.8 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ninetales-Alola with an ally's Aurora Veil: 181-213 (51.8 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Giratina Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ninetales-Alola with an ally's Aurora Veil: 249-293 (71.3 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Giratina Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ninetales-Alola with an ally's Aurora Veil: 249-293 (71.3 - 83.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


    Zygarde:

    252 Atk Giratina Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 336-396 (93.8 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Giratina Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 336-396 (93.8 - 110.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Mega Charizard X:

    252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 362-428 (117.1 - 138.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Latios:

    252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 422-498 (136.5 - 161.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Garchomp:

    252 Atk Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 278-330 (89.9 - 106.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 361-429 (116.8 - 138.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 420-494 (135.9 - 159.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Mimikyu:

    252 Atk Mimikyu Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 246-290 (79.6 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Mimikyu Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 246-290 (79.6 - 93.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Mimikyu Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 110-132 (35.5 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Mimikyu Never-Ending Nightmare (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 378-446 (122.3 - 144.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 Atk Mimikyu Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 474-558 (153.3 - 180.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Mimikyu Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 320-377 (103.5 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +2 252 Atk Life Orb Mimikyu Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 283-335 (91.5 - 108.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Kitsunoh:

    252 Atk Kitsunoh Shadow Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 236-282 (76.3 - 91.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Kitsunoh Shadow Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 307-367 (99.3 - 118.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Kitsunoh Shadow Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 307-367 (99.3 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Kitsunoh: 302-356 (82.9 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Kitsunoh: 302-356 (82.9 - 97.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Kitsunoh: 393-463 (107.9 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kitsunoh: 300-354 (99.6 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kitsunoh: 300-354 (99.6 - 117.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Gengar:

    252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 260-308 (84.1 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 260-308 (84.1 - 99.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 338-400 (109.3 - 129.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 396-468 (151.1 - 178.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Ash-Greninja:

    252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 440-518 (142.3 - 167.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Greninja:

    252 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 248-294 (80.2 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 248-294 (80.2 - 95.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 322-382 (104.2 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252 Atk Giratina Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 271-321 (95 - 112.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Giratina Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 271-321 (95 - 112.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 352-417 (123.5 - 146.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Colossoil:

    252+ Atk Colossoil Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 254-302 (82.2 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Colossoil Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 254-302 (82.2 - 97.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 218-260 (70.5 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 384-452 (124.2 - 146.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Colossoil: 331-391 (81.3 - 96%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Colossoil: 315-372 (77.3 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Giratina Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Colossoil: 405-477 (99.5 - 117.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Giratina Subzero Slammer (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Colossoil: 454-536 (111.5 - 131.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Mega Sableye:
    252 Atk Giratina Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Sableye-Mega: 121-144 (39.9 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 Atk Giratina Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Sableye-Mega: 121-144 (39.9 - 47.5%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Sableye-Mega: 157-187 (51.8 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Giratina Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Sableye-Mega: 192-226 (63.3 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    0 Atk Sableye-Mega Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 132-156 (42.7 - 50.4%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    0 Atk Sableye-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 194-230 (62.7 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Mega Sharpedo:

    252 Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo-Mega Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 440-522 (142.3 - 168.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Mega Gyarados:
    252 Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 318-374 (102.9 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    -1 252 Atk Giratina Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gyarados-Mega: 193-228 (58.1 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gyarados-Mega: 238-281 (71.6 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Giratina Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gyarados-Mega: 288-340 (86.7 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Giratina Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gyarados-Mega: 288-340 (86.7 - 102.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Tapu Lele:
    252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 308-366 (99.6 - 118.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
    252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 308-366 (99.6 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 332-392 (118.1 - 139.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Kerfluffle:
    252 SpA Kerfluffle Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 284-336 (91.9 - 108.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
    252 SpA Kerfluffle Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 284-336 (91.9 - 108.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Life Orb Kerfluffle Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 369-437 (119.4 - 141.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kerfluffle: 192-227 (62.1 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Giratina Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kerfluffle: 297-349 (96.1 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Giratina Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kerfluffle: 297-349 (96.1 - 112.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Mega Diancie:

    252 SpA Diancie-Mega Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 360-426 (116.5 - 137.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Mega Gardevoir:

    252 SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 420-494 (135.9 - 159.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Clefable:

    0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 194-230 (62.7 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 149-177 (37.8 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 229-271 (58.1 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



    Counters (open)

    Skarmory:

    0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 114-135 (36.8 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    0 Atk Skarmory Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 76-91 (24.5 - 29.4%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO

    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 75-88 (22.5 - 26.4%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 97-114 (29.1 - 34.2%) -- 4.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 148-175 (44.4 - 52.5%) -- 81.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    Celesteela:

    0 Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 139-165 (44.9 - 53.3%) -- 32.8% chance to 2HKO
    0 Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 139-165 (44.9 - 53.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 102-121 (25.6 - 30.4%) -- 1.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 102-121 (25.6 - 30.4%) -- 98.9% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 133-157 (33.4 - 39.4%) -- 19.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 133-157 (33.4 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 204-241 (51.2 - 60.5%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 204-241 (51.2 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    Ferrothorn:

    0 Atk Ferrothorn Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 96-114 (31 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    0 Atk Ferrothorn Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 142-168 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 88-105 (25 - 29.8%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 88-105 (25 - 29.8%) -- 14.2% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 114-136 (32.3 - 38.6%) -- 3.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 114-136 (32.3 - 38.6%) -- 53.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 177-208 (50.2 - 59%) -- 75.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 177-208 (50.2 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    Mega Scizor:

    0 Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 99-117 (32 - 37.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Scizor-Mega: 76-90 (22.1 - 26.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Scizor-Mega: 99-117 (28.8 - 34.1%) -- 99.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Giratina Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Scizor-Mega: 150-177 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Tapu Fini:

    0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 194-230 (62.7 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 216 Def Tapu Fini: 97-115 (28.2 - 33.5%) -- 95.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 216 Def Tapu Fini: 97-115 (28.2 - 33.5%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 216 Def Tapu Fini: 126-149 (36.7 - 43.4%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 216 Def Tapu Fini: 126-149 (36.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 216 Def Tapu Fini: 193-228 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    As you can see, CAP23 can deal with all the Pokemon we want to dismantle, with the right coverage move and its Z-Crystal or the Life Orb.
    For the Pokemon that we want to pressure is same thing, but in some cases we may prefer Z-STABs for speed up the job and avoiding to take damage (Especially against Landorus-T and Excadrill), but this will complicate the CAP23 job against its primary targets.
    Also CM Naviathan can defeat CAP23 thanks to its high defenses.

    About the check/counter list:
    - Some of them need to run a specific set to defeat CAP23: Gengar, Kitsunoh, Kerfluffle and Greninja need of the Life Orb to get the OHKO or they can be defeated, Tapu Lele needs to be Scarf since it's slower
    - Colossoil needs to be already burned to properly check CAP23 (or at least, a little chip damage)
    - Mega Sableye is heavily pressured if CAP23 has not used its Z-move or it's Life Orb, Mega Gyarados is pressured only from Z-Outrage
    - Zygarde and Kyurem-Black can't check CAP23 since they're slower
    - Alolan Ninetales can't check CAP23, if the latter will have Rock coverage
    - Counters without Roost are heavily pressured from Never Ending Nightmare

    Nonetheless, I don't think that these problems are very imporant because some of them are very situational, also in most of the cases, the checks will enter only after that CAP23 has dismantled its target. For the counters, they're limited only from Z-Ghost coverage, but in the all other cases, they can enter safely.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  8. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight RIP DryPass Vaporeon
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    CAP Head Mod

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    Messages:
    8,989
    Final Submission:

    82 HP / 128 Atk / 93 Def / 55 SpA / 85 SpD / 107 Spe (550 BST)

    PT: 134.61
    ST: 125.80
    PS: 205.24
    SS: 92.99
    BSR: 303.64


    HP / Def / SpD:
    Defensive Overview (open)

    82 HP gives a natural minimum of 305, slightly higher than Rotom-Wash's Max invested HP.

    82 / 93 Defense ensures CAP survives AV Soil's Sucker Punch at full health with no investment. Pursuit still KO's most of the time if CAP switches:
    252+ Atk Colossoil Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 254-302 (83 - 98.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Colossoil Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 294-348 (96 - 113.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO.

    What this does is give CAP room to avoid a 50/50 at full health. If the opponent chips CAP it will still be susceptible to the 50/50, but it is not the most desirable choice. Notably, boosting items like Life Orb and Guts activation return the scenario to the 50/50, but it requires them to compromise item choice which will allow us to measure CAP's impact to an extent - how do checks and counters alter their sets with it being present.

    82 / 85 SpD ensures CAP survives Specs Volkraken Fire Blast/Hydro Pump after rocks at full health with no investment.
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Decidueye: 225-266 (73.5 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Why these defenses? Why more physical defense than special defense?

    When I look at our threats list I see a lot of versatile Pokemon from all across the competitive spectrum. This diversity in targets means that CAP will need the flexibility to take attacks on both sides of the spectrum. However, the vast majority of targets fare poorly against CAP when it comes to type defense. CAP resists all of Mollux's STAB and common coverage moves, resists Volkraken and Pyroak's dual STAB, only fears Plasmanta's Dazzling Gleam, and laughs in the face of CM Naviathan's Scald.

    Where CAP's typing leaves it vulnerable is to physical threats and especially Pursuit. Without a high enough defense, CAP easily becomes susceptible to Pursuit / Sucker Punch 50/50s. It's a fool's errand to try and make CAP defensive enough to tank these attacks comfortably: Colossoil, Weavile, and Bisharp can all put forward immense offensive pressure. However, if CAP can attempt to trap a desirable target and survive if one of these opponents switches in, it relieves it of a massive burden and does force these specific opponents more into Check terrirory than Counter territory.

    There are additionally threats in our "target and pressure" list like Excadrill, and being swiftly KO'd by Life Orb Earthquake is not desirable. CAP largely avoid this except on the highest rolls, if SR is on the field.
    252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 231-274 (75.4 - 89.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


    Speed:
    Speed and its importance (open)
    107 Spe is enough to outrun two reasonably fast pivots in the CAP metagame, Krilowatt and Crucibelle (Non-Mega). CAP resists Krilowatt's STAB and Crucibelle's Gunk Shot, but it really wants to be able to damage them before they can pivot or smack CAP with either Head Smash (Crucibelle) or Ice Beam (Krilowatt), both of which do substantial (and similar) damage.

    This speed stat retains Kitsunoh, Gengar, and the Latis as checks. CAP already fares incredibly well against almost everything in the 108 Spe tier, but having Terrakion and Keldeo outspeed CAP is not undesirable either. Incidentally, the stat line is in many ways like a retooled Terrakion. CAP is actually slightly less physically tanky than Terrakion, but looks more physically biased.

    252 Atk Crucibelle Head Smash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 225-265 (73.5 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Crucibelle Gunk Shot vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 90-106 (29.4 - 34.6%) -- 8.5% chance to 3HKO
    252 Atk Crucibelle U-turn vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 35-41 (11.4 - 13.3%) -- possible 8HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Krilowatt Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Decidueye: 218-257 (71.2 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Krilowatt Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Decidueye: 62-74 (20.2 - 24.1%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

    Why is it important to outrun so many pivots?

    Pivoting is a weak point of the trapping concept, and a great number of pivots would cause active problems for CAP if they were allowed to outspeed. Colossoil is not only massively threatening, it is also a pivot, so the fewer options it has against CAP the better. Zapdos is on our target lists and it would often elect to simply Volt Switch out if it could do so before being trapped or statused. Some pivots are simply too fast, already threaten CAP by type advantage, and it is otherwise unreasonable or messes with checks and counters to try and outrun them - Kitsunoh, Greninja, Syclant, and Tapu Koko are the best examples of these types of Pokemon.


    Offensive Set:

    Attack is going to be the strongest point of contention among stats. Whenever I choose an attack value I always have a set to go along with it, so here is the skeleton of that set:

    Offensive Set scenario - 252 Atk/252 Spe / 4 HP (open)

    CAP @ Dragonium Z / Life Orb
    Ability: Comatose
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
    Jolly Nature
    - Spirit Shackle
    - Outrage
    - Stone Edge
    - Filler (Considerations: Anchor Shot, Brave Bird, Ice Beam, Earthquake)

    [Final Stats: 306 HP / 355 Atk / 222 Def / 131 SpA / 206 SpD / 344 Spe]

    Tomohawk: The short answer is that Tomohawk matchup is entirely dependent on the filler move for an offensive set. Brave Bird followed by Devastating Drake/Supersonic Skystike KO's or LO Brave Bird 2HKOs, but those don't factor in Roost stalling or Helmet damage. There are status moves in combination that would also work but sets like that are beyond the allowable scope of the submission.

    252 Atk Decidueye Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 200-236 (48.3 - 57%) -- 39.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Decidueye Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 237-280 (57.2 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Decidueye Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 316-374 (76.3 - 90.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252 Atk Life Orb Decidueye Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 260-307 (62.8 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    Tomo return damage: 0 SpA Tomohawk Air Slash vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Decidueye: 105-124 (34.3 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

    - - -
    Colossoil: Spirit Shackle followed by Devastating Drake KOs, Drake OHKO's AV Soil half the time. Flame Orb Soil is OHKO'd after Rocks or Burn damage.

    252 Atk Decidueye Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Colossoil: 81-96 (19.9 - 23.5%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Decidueye Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Colossoil: 382-451 (93.8 - 110.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252 Atk Decidueye Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Colossoil: 400-472 (98.2 - 115.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Colo return damage: 252+ Atk Colossoil Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 254-302 (83 - 98.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    - - -
    Clefable: Clefable is one of the most annoying defensive Pokemon around, and while it only falls to Steel coverage (Anchor Shot -> Corkscrew Crash or Spirit Shackle -> Z-Iron Tail) it is a good target for a Pokemon that CAP should, if we so choose, prevent from becoming a major obstacle.

    252 Atk Decidueye Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 114-135 (28.9 - 34.2%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

    252 Atk Decidueye Anchor Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 152-180 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Decidueye Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 304-358 (77.1 - 90.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    252 Atk Decidueye Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 190-224 (48.2 - 56.8%) -- 37.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Decidueye Corkscrew Crash (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 340-402 (86.2 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO


    Clefable return damage: 0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Decidueye: 224-266 (73.2 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    - - -
    Defensive Zapdos: Defensive Zapdos is KO'd by a combination of Spirit Shackle and Continental Crush (Requires Rockium-Z over Dragonium-Z) or Stone Edge followed by Devastating Drake.

    252 Atk Decidueye Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 176-208 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Decidueye Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 249-294 (65 - 76.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Zapdos return damage: 0 SpA Zapdos Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Decidueye: 120-142 (39.2 - 46.4%) -- 27.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    - - -
    Defensive Landorus-T: Landorus-T on any kind requires Ice coverage to really dent. If you run Naive with Ice Beam, Subzero Slammer almost always OHKOs, making the SpA usable. If you run Ice Punch, Spirit Shackle + Subzero Slammer always KOs:

    -1 252 Atk Decidueye Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 69-82 (18 - 21.4%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    -1 252 Atk Decidueye Subzero Slammer (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 320-380 (83.7 - 99.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    0 SpA Decidueye Subzero Slammer (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Landorus-Therian: 368-436 (96.3 - 114.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Offensive Landorus-T is dealt with more easily.

    Lando-T return damage:
    0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 159-187 (51.9 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 189-223 (61.7 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    - - -
    Rotom-W: Rotom-W is KO'd by a combination of Spirit Shackle and Devastating Drake.

    252 Atk Decidueye Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Rotom-Wash: 93-109 (30.6 - 35.9%) -- 47.7% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Decidueye Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Rotom-Wash: 219-258 (72.2 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    Rotom-W's usual defensive sets cannot threaten CAP in any way. However if it chooses to run Hex specifically for CAP:
    0 SpA Rotom-Wash Hex (130 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Necturna: 226-266 (73.1 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    - - -
    Volkraken: Volkraken is OHKO'd by Devastating Drake or KO'd by a combination of Spirit Shackle and any either Outrage, Earthquake, or Stone Edge. It is OHKO'd by Stone Edge or Earthquake after rocks.

    252 Atk Decidueye Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Volkraken: 367-433 (107.3 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252 Atk Decidueye Spirit Shackle vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Volkraken: 156-184 (45.6 - 53.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Decidueye Earthquake / Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Volkraken: 260-306 (76 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Volkraken return damage:
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Decidueye: 225-266 (73.5 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252 SpA Analytic Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Decidueye: 138-162 (45 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Decidueye: 105-125 (34.3 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

    [Fire Blast + Follow-up Fire Blast can 2HKO CAP with SR down if it switches in, however the chance is low.]


    Defensive Set(s):

    Offensive Sets are great for beating some of our threats. Others need to be dismantled by a more defensive set that capitalizes on surprise factor and investment. Here are two models for that:

    Defensive Set Scenario 188 HP / 252 (Def/SpD) / 68 Spe (open)


    CAP @ Ghostinium-Z / Binding Band / Leftovers
    Ability: Comatose
    EVs: 188 HP / 252 [Def/SpD] / 68 Spe
    [Careful/Impish] Nature
    - Spirit Shackle
    - Substitute / Infestation
    - Curse
    - Aqua Ring (Placeholder for Recovery) / Infestation / Toxic

    [Final Stats: 352 HP / 292 Atk / 222 Def / 131 SpA / 295 SpD / 267 Spe
    OR: 352 HP / 292 Atk / 313 Def / 131 SpA / 206 SpD / 267 Spe]

    You might notice some of out threats are really, really bulky. Some of them are immune to Toxic. But none of them are immune to Ghost Curse or Partial Trapping damage, and few can break a Substitute. This set would probably be easier to illustrate with another ability and Rest, but that's for another time.

    Def Spread: This sets Defensive EVs allow it to easily tank Arghonaut's Ice Punch or Knock Off (they are each 3HKOs), however it struggles with the Bulk Up set that has those moves.

    Usually though, Arghonaut is running Drain Punch, Aqua Jet, or Gunk Shot for attacks and this set's Substitutes survive all of those them even at +1, allowing you to easily trap, Toxic, and KO it. As Arghonaut usually runs Circle Throw rather than Roar if it phazes at all, Def oriented CAP is a safe switchin.

    Although it invests heavily in defense, this spread has a poor matchup against most Pursuiters despite avoiding a OHKO from everything except Flame Orb Soil. Use Substitute to scout if you must and then get out. Colossoil, Bisharp, and Weavile are all far too strong for defensive investment to blunt adequately.

    Celesteela can still break CAP's Subs with Heavy Slam, however Curse easily outpaces any Leech Seed healing it might get. Skarmory's Brave Bird cannot break CAP's Sub, so it's largely forced to Whirlwind CAP out however CAP can do little that is effective against it (Curse's opportunity cost is not bad vs Leech Seed, it's horrible vs Roost). Ferrothorn's Knock Off cannot break CAP's Sub if it is running Ghostinium-Z (or after it successfully Knocks Leftovers or Binding Band off). Basically, the physically defensive set is a surprise that can target Arghonaut and break a Ferro/Argh or Steela/Argh core down. Yes, this does affect counters a bit, but since both Ferro and Steela are very passive threats that can't phaze, I think the set is still in line with the kind of threat we want CAP to be.

    Defensive Calcs:
    252+ Atk Arghonaut Gunk Shot vs. 188 HP / 252+ Def Decidueye: 48-57 (13.6 - 16.1%) -- possible 7HKO
    +1 252+ Atk Arghonaut Gunk Shot vs. 188 HP / 252+ Def Decidueye: 72-85 (20.4 - 24.1%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
    252+ Atk Arghonaut Ice Punch vs. 188 HP / 252+ Def Decidueye: 122-144 (34.6 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

    0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 188 HP / 252+ Def Decidueye: 112-133 (31.8 - 37.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    0- SpA Landorus-Therian Hidden Power Ice vs. 188 HP / 0 SpD Decidueye: 94-112 (26.7 - 31.8%) -- 53.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

    0 Atk Ferrothorn Knock Off vs. 188 HP / 252+ Def Decidueye: 68-82 (19.3 - 23.2%) -- 17.5% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
    0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (87 BP) vs. 188 HP / 252+ Def Decidueye: 67-81 (19 - 23%) -- 6.6% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
    0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 188 HP / 252+ Def Decidueye: 46-55 (13 - 15.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock

    0 Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 188 HP / 252+ Def Decidueye: 99-117 (28.1 - 33.2%) -- 93.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    0 SpA Celesteela Air Slash vs. 188 HP / 0 SpD Decidueye: 99-117 (28.1 - 33.2%) -- 93.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

    SpD Spread: This sets SpDefensive EVs allow it's Substiture to survive Defensive Tomohawk's Air Slash 100% of the time. Now for how it operates vs SpDefensive threats:

    Mega-Venu cannot break Sub unless it runs HP Ice instead of HP Fire. Toxapex cannot break the Sub at all. Pyroak cannot break the Sub with anything except Dragon Pulse (which it will never run). The way this set overwhelms recovery is by utilizing Curse to constantly force opponents to recover while passively recovering behind its own Substitute. This forces those defensive threats to either compromise their standard set to break CAP or to lose to CAP through attrition.

    0 SpA Tomohawk Air Slash vs. 188 HP / 252+ SpD Decidueye: 73-87 (20.7 - 24.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
    0 SpA Zapdos Hidden Power Ice vs. 188 HP / 252+ SpD Decidueye: 84-100 (23.8 - 28.4%) -- 96.6% chance to 4HKO
    0 SpA Zapdos Discharge vs. 188 HP / 252+ SpD Decidueye: 42-50 (11.9 - 14.2%) -- possible 8HKO
    0 SpA Venusaur-Mega Hidden Power Ice vs. 188 HP / 252+ SpD Decidueye: 82-98 (23.2 - 27.8%) -- 82.5% chance to 4HKO
    0 SpA Venusaur-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 188 HP / 252+ SpD Decidueye: 46-54 (13 - 15.3%) -- possible 7HKO
    0 SpA Pyroak Earth Power vs. 188 HP / 252+ SpD Decidueye: 50-59 (14.2 - 16.7%) -- possible 6HKO
    0 SpA Pyroak Lava Plume vs. 188 HP / 252+ SpD Decidueye: 33-39 (9.3 - 11%) -- possibly the worst move ever
    0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 188 HP / 252+ SpD Decidueye: 21-25 (5.9 - 7.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever

    Item Choice: Ghostium-Z allows the set to use either Z-Curse from low health or fire off a one-time Never-Ending Nightmare to finish off a defensive threat or KO a mutually threatened check from behind a Sub. Binding Band ups partial damage combined with Curse from 37.5% to 41.67%, Leftovers gives CAP its own partial recovery to use either with Sub or to outlast with attrition on Recovery turns.

    I won't get into offensive calcs because this set is an attrition set which punishes defensive threats for their hyper-passivity. The more passive the threat is, the more this set punishes them. Once you have the Curse/Partial Trap set up, Spirit Shackle easily pushes beyond the standard 50% recovery move's ability to cope with partial damage.


    Conclusion:

    What this spread offers is a combination of range of play, target selection, and flexibility based on its several viable individual builds. It's fast and offensive build provides immense pressure to all pivots below the 108 Speed tier and scores a significant number of one-two punch KOs on defensive threats with the right move selection. Spirit Shackle and Z-Outrage can accomplish this on a multitude of threats, allowing two additional moveslots that allow you to choose the additional coverage moves best suited for your team's needs.

    The defensive spreads serve as more situational spreads that address physically oriented slow-moving walls like Arghonaut, Celesteela, and Ferrothorn with the Physical Defensive spread or Tomohawk, Mega-Venusaur, and Zapdos with the Special Defensive spread. Because you must invest in the appropriate defense for the spread it makes the correct defensive answer for CAP vary and therefore increases the likelihood the opponent will try to scout CAP and keep their targeted defensive threat in, or even switch it into the trap thinking CAP has another spread.

    With the ability to pressure offensively to invite walls and just enough in each defense to pull off a surprise trap with an alternate EV selection, CAP minimizes the chief weakness of move-based trapping by making the wrong defensive answer to CAP a decision from which an opponent cannot recover. Its uninvested defenses are sufficient to keep CAP from falling to major special offensive threats that it should not lose to 1vs1, and to minimize the risk of 50/50s with Pursuit/Sucker Punch at full health.

    Alterations to the threat list (open)

    Alterations to the threat list (relative to other spreads):
    Depending on its final movepool, the physically defensive spread can successfully trap and dismantle Celesteela and Ferrothorn as a byproduct of its trapping and dismantling Arghonaut.
    Garchomp is too slow to be an effective check to the offensive spread unless it runs Choice Scarf.
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  9. Garbagery

    Garbagery

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    205
    FINAL SUBMISSION
    95/130 atk/90 def/65 spa/95 spd/95 spe (575 BST)

    ST: 153.9381692

    PT: 143.406

    PS: 188.6601246


    SS: 100.6290467

    BSR: 321.93581


    explanation wip
    ye ye (open)

    speed stat explain:
    garchomp should be able to revenge us, but not be able to switch in easily. Thats the point of it being a check, not a counter so i opted a speed slightly lower, like kyurems
    it outspeeds bulu too, something im sure that would pummel us if we werent fast enough.

    Special attack explain:
    0 SpA Pinsir Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 132-156 (38.4 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    0- SpA Silvally Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 200-236 (62.6 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    It's enough so we would never kill scizor, and let alone ferrothron with a single hp fire. Also it allows us to be able to actually pressure lando t should we decide to use ice beam
    0 SpA Pinsir Mystical Fire vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 160-192 (46.6 - 55.9%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO
    in case someone wanna put mystical fire (which i advise not to it messes with some of our checks)

    Atk explain:
    252 Atk Garchomp Sky Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 236-278 (57 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    252+ Atk Giratina-Origin Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 225-265 (56.5 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    252 Atk Garchomp Supersonic Skystrike (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 338-398 (81.6 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    Keep in mind i changed garchomps' stats. It's enough that we'd be able to break through tomo if we keep going with sky attack. while not being enough to break celesteela open.

    spd explain
    0 SpA Tomohawk Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Silvally: 94-112 (28.3 - 33.8%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO
    252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Silvally: 324-384 (97.8 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
    252 SpA Charizard Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Silvally in Sun: 124-147 (37.4 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    this gives our cap23 an easy way to take 4 hits from the average tomo's air slash while not allowing our cap23 to be ohko'd should it decide to run a collosoil like set (i can see cap23 running that, its a specially defensive typing with good special defense and can easily run av to scare off predators. Also char y wont be able to fireblast htis cap to death either.

    defense explanation
    its good enough that we will be only 3hko''d by a tangrowth. It may sound bad but we only need to hit that monster twice to kill it
    0 Atk Tangrowth Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Silvally: 102-122 (30.8 - 36.8%) -- 67% chance to 3HKO

    252 Atk Silvally Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Tangrowth: 84-99 (20.8 - 24.5%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

    252 Atk Silvally Supersonic Skystrike (200 BP) vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Tangrowth: 278-328 (68.9 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


    keeping this here for easier access and refference
    checks and stuff (open)

    CAP23 should target and dismantle:
    a. Defensive pivots/walls (e.g. doesn't use VoltTurn): Tomohawk, Toxapex, Tangrowth, Arghonaut, Pyroak, Mollux, Mega Venusaur, Zapdos
    If successfully trapped, these Pokemon will have a difficult time against CAP23, through CAP23's offensive coverage or utility.

    CAP23 should target and pressure (Pokemon that have methods to escape CAP23 and should not threaten a healthy CAP23 AND offensive Pokemon that CAP23 naturally checks):
    b. VoltTurn pivots: Landorus-T, Rotom-W, Volkraken, other VoltTurners whose coverage CAP23 resists
    These are VoltTurn pivots we should not lose to. CAP23 has a general type advantage over these, so they should be pressured into switching out, rather than having a free U-turn or Volt Switch.
    c. Offensive Pokemon: Excadrill, Volcarona, Keldeo, Tapu Bulu, Mega Charizard Y, Calm Mind Naviathan, other Pokemon whose coverage CAP23 resists
    CAP23 should generally not lose to Pokemon whose moves are resisted: as such, these Pokemon should fear CAP23 to some degree.

    CAP23 should be checked by:
    d. Offensive Steel-types: Kitsunoh, Dragon Dance Naviathan, Mega Mawile, Bisharp
    e. Ice-types: Syclant, Kyurem-B, Ninetales-A
    These Pokemon have the coverage, bulk, or power to tackle CAP23.
    f. Dragon-types: Zygarde, Mega Charizard X, Latios, Garchomp
    g. Ghost-types: Mimikyu, Kitsunoh, Gengar
    These two types have a type advantage over CAP23, but the reverse is also true, so they are checks.
    h. Dark-types: Ash-Greninja, Greninja, Colossoil, Mega Sableye, Mega Sharpedo, Mega Gyarados
    i. Fairy-types: Tapu Lele, Kerfluffle, Mega Diancie, Mega Gardevoir, Clefable
    These Pokemon have the bulk, super-effective STAB-boosted coverage, or other qualities to check CAP23.

    CAP23 should be countered by:
    j. Skarmory, Celesteela, Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor, Tapu Fini
    These Pokemon generally have the bulk to take on a Ghost-type STAB, resist or are immune to CAP23's Dragon-type STAB, and generally do not care about CAP23's trapping effect. Tapu Fini in particular blocks CAP23's ability to use Toxic.

    I'm really happy with the discussions so far. See you in the Primary Ability thread!
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  10. Exploudit

    Exploudit

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    Messages:
    1,226
    Final Product:

    79 HP / 139 Atk / 79 Def / 67 SpA / 109 SpD / 97 Spe (570 BST)

    PT: 112.085
    ST: 156.618
    PS: 206.021
    SS: 103.794
    BSR: 316.633


    Notes (open)
    * Enough Attack to guarantee a 2HKO on Zapdos with Outrage with Stealth Rock up, but always fails to 2HKO if Zapdos is at full health.
    * Enough Attack to guarantee a 2HKO on Pyroak with Brave Bird with Stealth Rock up, but always fails to 2HKO if Pyroak is at full health.
    * Enough Attack to guarantee a 2HKO on Physically Defensive Mollux with Outrage with Stealth Rock up, but fails to 2HKO if Mollux is at full health.
    * Enough Attack to guarantee a 2HKO on Tomohawk with Brave Bird after Stealth Rock.
    * Enough Attack to KO Toxapex with Psychic Fangs into Shattered Psyche. And just enough Attack to guarantee a 2HKO with Psychic Fangs with Life Orb and Stealth Rock up.
    *2HKO's even Physically Defensive Tangrowth as well as Mega Venusaur with Brave Bird.
    *Arghonaut also gets 2HKO'd by both Outrage and Brave Bird.

    * Enough bulk to switch into one Earthquake from Adamant Landorus-T and proceed to oustpeed it.
    * Enough bulk to switch into one Hydro Pump / Fire Blast from Specs Volkraken after Stealth Rock and proceed to outspeed it.
    * Unfortunately it has a 30% chance to get OHKO'd by Life Orb Excadrill's Earthquake but Spirit Shackle is still a clear 2HKO and CAP outspeeds it.
    * +1 Savage Spin-Out from Volcarona fails to KO and Outrage only needs a 7% chip damage to guarantee the OHKO. This means CAP can switch in as it Quiver Dances, tank any move and KO back.
    * Specs Keldeo fails to 2HKO with Hydro Pump.
    * Bloom Doom from Jolly Tapu Bulu is a roll to OHKO but Wood Hammer can't OHKO and puts in range of Brave Bird the next turn.
    * Fire Blast from Mega Charizard-Y fails to 3HKO even if Stealth Rock is up. And Spirit Shackle is an easy 2HKO.
    * Unfortunately CAP looses to CM Naviathan unless we give it Close Combat or a stronger SE coverage. Even Choice Banded Spirit Shackle doesn't pick up the 2HKO.

    * Kitsunoh easily 2HKO's with Shadow Strike while CAP has to risk a 10% roll to OHKO it, since Kitsunoh outspeeds, CAP is checked by it most of the time.
    * DD Naviathan beats CAP as well (unless we do give it SE coverage which we shouldn't).
    * CAP fails to 2HKO Mega Mawile which absolutely blows CAP away with Play Rough.
    * Sucker Punch from Bisharp is a guaranteed OHKO and Knock Off also OHKO unless CAP is running a Z-Move.
    * LO Syclant OHKO's with Ice Beam.
    * Kyurem-B isn't really a check unfortunately, as it gets outsped and OHKO'd by Outrage.
    * After using Aurora Veil, Ninetales-A can 1v1 CAP, as Freeze Dry is a 3HKO and Spirit Shackle fails to 3HKO under Veil.
    * Zygarde, Latios, Garchomp, and Mega Charizard X all outspeed and OHKO cap with dragon-type STABs.
    * Shadow Ball from Gengar OHKO's and Mimikyu can beat CAP thanks to Disguise despite being outsped.
    * Ash Greninja easily OHKO's with Dark Pulse, but unfortunately regular Greninja fails to do so with Protean Ice Beam.
    * Mega Gyarados, Mega Sharpedo and Colossoil all OHKO CAP with their Dark-type STABs and CAP fails to OHKO both Mega Gyarados and Colosoil without Devastating Drake. Choice Banded Outrage has a chance to OHKO both though.
    * Mega Sableye is 2HKO'd by Outrage, so unfortunately not a check anymore.
    * Tapu Lele only has a chance to OHKO CAP if it is Scarf, otheriwise Lele is OHKO'd by Spirit Shackle.
    * Kerfuffle, Mega Diance and Timid Mega Gardevoir all outspeed CAP and OHKO it with their SUper Effective STABs.
    * CAP is 2HKO'd by Clefable's Moonblast making it a solid check.

    *Spirit Shackle is a roll to 3HKO Fini. Which can 2HKO with Moonblast, technically if it switches into CAP, CAP has a 80% chance to beat it, but Fini is still a geat check.
    *Mega Scizor, Skarmory, Ferrothorn and Celesteela outright wall it. If it is decided to give Fire-type coverage to CAP however (even Fire Fang) Mega Scizor and Ferrothorn get 2HKO'd. Any Fire coverage weaker than Fire Punch still allows Celesteela to wall CAP. Any Fire coverage weaker than Flare Blitz still allows Skarmory to wall CAP.

    *79 HP gives it a LO number when uninvested

    * Bonus note: All prime stats and 570 BST. You know what that means, don't you?
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
  11. david0895

    david0895

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    Messages:
    528
    While I could agree on Krilowatt, I don't get why you are talking about Crucibelle: usually it is played with the Choice Scarf so if it is locked on Gunk Shot, automatically it will be switched-out.

    Also, reachzero I don't get why CAP23 needs of a chance to survive to Colossoil since the latter is a check
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  12. reachzero

    reachzero the pastor of disaster
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
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    I personally do not see any great need to survive a Pursuit, but you don't have to go all the way to the limit if you do not desire, and it is preferable to have that leeway rather than not have it.
  13. Korski

    Korski Distilled, 80 proof
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    Final Submission

    HP: 94
    Atk: 126
    Def: 65
    SpA: 60
    SpD: 99
    Spe: 106

    PS: 201.5 (Fantastic)
    ST: 159.1 (Very Good)
    PT: 104.2 (Above Average)
    SS: 99.5 (Below Average)
    BSR: 307.3 (Very Good)
    BST: 550


    Offense: 126 / 60 / 106

    The trickiest thing about choosing an offensive level for this CAP is how to balance our threat list with the likely influence of Z-moves and coverage. It is easy to retain most of our offensive checks by underspeeding them, but our list of things to target requires a meaty Atk stat that would necessarily interfere with our slower checks' ability to tank certain CAP sets, specifically Ghostium Z. Pokes like Celesteela and Clefable can be 2HKO'd on average by Spirit Shackle + Never-Ending Nightmare (unless Protect), but lowering the Atk would mean Tomohawk and Pyroak become insurmountable defensive stops even with Flying coverage. The middle way here is to settle in the mid-120s, enough to trap and nab a specific KO without being functionless after consuming your Z-crystal and to make non-Z-crystal sets viable enough to possibly lure in these bulky targets.

    I can really only assume three sets at this point in the process: Ghostium Z, Dragonium Z, and Life Orb, but Flyinium Z would be a desirable set for dealing with a swath of our intended targets, most especially Tomohawk, and so I've included some calcs with that in mind. I've seen predictions of Rock and Ice-type coverage, so there's some of that stuff in these calcs too.
    Offensive Calcs (open)
    126 Atk is the minimum stat that can guarantee a 2HKO on Tomohawk with Spirit Shackle --> 190 BP SSSS [Brave Bird]. Obviously with priority Roost this relies on the Tomo user mispredicting a non-Flyinium set, but to even get a 50/50 shot at OHKOing from full health the CAP would need a 151 Atk stat and Sky Attack, so this is probably as reliable as it gets. These calcs show LO, Ghostium Z, and Dragonium Z are not strong enough to get the job done, so I would consider it a priority to guarantee the KO when Tomohawk switches in on a lure.

    Spirit Shackle vs. defensive Tomohawk: 24 - 29% [NEN: 48 - 57%] [LO: 31 - 37%]
    Outrage vs. defensive Tomohawk: 36 - 42% [DD: 57 - 67%] [LO: 46 - 55%]
    Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. defensive Tomohawk: 70 - 82% [190 BP: 76 - 89%] [200 BP: 79 - 94%]

    Pyroak is hindered greatly by SR, so the Ghostium Z and Dragonium Z sets each have a pretty easy shot at 2HKOing after Spirit Shackle. Without SR, the Flyinium Z set is the only good way to KO it after trapping.

    Spirit Shackle vs. Pyroak: 23 - 27% [NEN: 46 - 54%] [LO: 30 - 35%]
    Outrage vs. Pyroak: 35 - 41% [DD: 55 - 65%] [LO: 45 - 53% (2HKO w/SR)]
    Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. Pyroak: 67 - 79% [190 BP: 73 - 86%] [200 BP: 77 - 91%]

    All offensive sets reliably 2HKO Krilowatt:

    Spirit Shackle vs. Krilowatt: 37 - 44% [NEN: 75 - 88%] [LO: 49 - 57% (93% 2HKO)]
    Outrage vs. Krilowatt: 56 - 66% (2HKO) [DD: 89 - 104% (31% OHKO)] [LO: 73 - 86% (2HKO)]

    Ghostium Z 2HKOs defensive Zapdos w/SR; Dragonium Z reliably 2HKOs w/ Spirit Shackle --> Devastating Drake; LO 2HKOs w/ Outrage:

    Spirit Shackle vs. defensive Zapdos: 27 - 32% [NEN: 54 - 64%] [LO: 35 - 42% (5% 2HKO w/SR + Leftovers)]
    Outrage vs. defensive Zapdos: 41 - 48% (2HKO w/SR, 3HKO w/o) [DD: 64 - 75%] [LO: 53 - 62% (2HKO)]
    Stone Edge vs. defensive Zapdos: 45 - 53% (2HKO w/SR) [CC: 81 - 96% (2HKO, OHKO w/SR)]

    Dragonium Z can 2HKO Toxapex w/SR (SR + Spirit Shackle + Devastating Drake: 92 - 106%); LO has a decent shot at 2HKOing with Outrage:

    Spirit Shackle vs. 252 / 192+ Toxapex: 24 - 28% [NEN: 47 - 55%] [LO: 31 - 36%]
    Outrage vs. 252 / 192 + Toxapex: 36 - 42% [DD: 56 - 65%] [LO: 46 - 54% (2HKO w/SR)

    Skarmory and Ferrothorn are both solid counters to even Ghostium Z sets.

    Spirit Shackle vs. defensive Skarmory: 22 - 26% [NEN: 44 - 52%]
    Spririt Shackle vs. 252 / 88+ Ferrothorn: 25 - 29% [NEN: 49 - 58%]
    I don't see the benefit of being slower than Garchomp since the two are going to end up being highly comparable and Garchomp will most likely end up with utility and boosting options that this CAP will miss out on; if it has higher Speed in addition to its superior Atk and Def, CAP runs a big risk of being outclassed. 106 Spe rests comfortably in a unique speed tier above the bulkier Pokemon we intend to target generally (up to and including Krilowatt) and below the speedy offensemons we intend to be threatened by (Kitsunoh, Lati@s, Gengar and above), which imo gives it a clear niche that cannot be replicated by the more-powerful Garchomps and Kyurem-Bs out there.

    Defense: 94 / 65 / 99

    I've opted for less outstanding defenses than some other spreads because the offenses and typing are really very good. It's important that the CAP be balanced so I made sure it loses to stuff like most Super-Effective STABs from offensive Pokemon and intentionally powerful neutral STABs like LO Excadrill's Earthquake that encourage conditional checking based on Speed / item choice / etc.

    In terms of Special Defense, there is a tricky balance between tanking things like Scarf Volkraken, which I think CAP should be able to do, and tanking things like LO Greninja, which borders on overpowered if it is incapable of RKOing the CAP. This level of SpD sits as precisely on that thin baseline as possible, where 0/4 CAP at full HP can survive two max damage rolls on Scarf Volkraken's Analytic-boosted Fire Blast and follow-up Fire Blast while still falling to Stealth Rock + LO Greninja's Dark Pulse 100% of the time.
    Defensive Calcs (open)
    0/4 CAP vs..:
    • LO Syclant Ice Beam: OHKO
    • Adamant Colossoil Sucker Punch: OHKO
    • LO Excadrill Earthquake: 94 - 112% (69% chance to OHKO w/o SR)
    • LO Greninja Dark Pulse: 88 - 105% (31% chance to OHKO w/o SR)
    • Crucibelle Head Smash: 91 - 108% (44% chance to OHKO w/o SR)
    • LO Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam: 83 - 99% (75% chance to OHKO w/SR, 2HKO w/o)
    • Gengar Shadow Ball: 80 - 95% (50% chance to OHKO w/SR) [LO: guaranteed OHKO]
    • LO Tomohawk Hurricane: 71 - 84% (2HKO)
    • Choice Scarf Tapu Lele Psychic (Psychic Terrain): 67 - 80% (2HKO)
    • Adamant Colossoil Pursuit (40 BP): 60 - 71% (2HKO)
    • Tangrowth Knock Off (65 BP): 60 - 71%
    • Defensive Cyclohm Ice Beam: 44 - 52% (8% chance to 2HKO, 2HKO w/SR)
    • Defensive Zados HP-Ice: 32 - 38% (3HKO)
    • Defensive Tomohawk Air Slash: 28 - 33% (3HKO)
    • Choice Scarf Volkraken Fire Blast: 28 - 33% [Switch-in: 47 - 56%]
    • SpD Mollux Sludge Bomb: 19 - 22%
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
  14. jas61292

    jas61292 used substitute
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    Final Submission

    80 HP / 123 Atk / 85 Def / 62 SpA / 65 SpD / 120 Spe

    PT: 121.372
    ST: 95.556
    PS: 211.837
    SS: 106.512
    BSR: 289.181


    Overview

    When making this stat spread the one thing I kept in mind throughout was trying to make sure that we not only addressed the threat list, but the concept itself. It is not enough to simply beat the things we want to beat and lose to the things we want to lose to. We need to make sure that trapping the opponent is a core factor in what we do, and not simply an incidental part of a Pokemon that can defeat popular defensive mons. At its heart, this means making sure a number of the Pokemon that we want to defeat have reason to think that they can beat us, and thus are willing to risk switching in and being trapped. If such Pokemon are just destroyed outright, opponents will never have any reason to bring them in, and thus the fact that our move traps will have no real effect. To this effect, in designing this spread, my thoughts went as much to the deficiencies we should have as they did to the power we require.

    HP and Defenses

    While I know that the stat limits are set up assuming a more special defensive bias, I actually think this is a bit backwards from what we should ideally be looking at. Our type is already super strong defensively against the things we want to be beating, and while it is true that there are many specially offensive Pokemon on our list of threats to take on, giving ourselves bulk on that side would actually be detrimental. This is because of our concept wanting us to not simply beat such Pokemon, but to take advantage of trapping.

    The Pokemon we chose to target are bulky Pokemon that are among the most likely mons to want to switch into something offensive leaning with as generically good neutral coverage as we have. We can take advantage of this with targeted coverage, Z-Moves, or whatever else we decide to do in the movepool stage, so long as we have decent stats to back it up. But, this only works if they actually are willing to risk switching into us, which requires them to naturally have some sort of advantage. As it stands though, a number of these Pokemon rely on status to defeat opponent, which thanks to our ability, we are now immune to. Furthermore, looking at our list from the Threats stage, we resist the STAB attacks of every single target mon except Tomohawk and Zapdos's Flying type (the latter of whom doesn't have a STAB move worth using). It is at this point we have to look at the situation and ask ourselves, "why are these Pokemon switching in?"

    If we want them to actually be targets for trapping, we need to maintain some sort of weakness that they can take advantage of. While Arghonaut can set hazards, and threaten with the possibility of things like Knock Off or Ice Punch, and Tangrowth can similarly pack Knock Off or HP Ice to scare us a bit, no one else on the list really has any super threatening options. With this being the case, I think it is absolutely impreative that we make ourselves fragile enough such that these Pokemon should have reasonable expectations of being able to defeat us if we are not packing the right set. I believe that this requires us to overall not be that bulky, but more specifically, as most of these Pokemon lean special, I think this requires that we be somewhat weaker on the special defensive side.

    I specifically chose special defensive stats of 80/65, as it would allow an uninvested Zapdos or Tangrowth to guaranteed 2HKO with HP Ice after Stealth Rock and an uninvested Tomohawk to do likewise with Air Slash about 94% of the time. On the physical side, I wanted to make sure that Arghonaut can potentially run something worth using that will let it threaten us,and with a stat of 85, Ice Punch will always 2HKO after SR, while Knock Off will also do so if we are not running a Z-Crystal.

    Speed

    With this spread being as frail as it is, I knew I had to make it excel elsewhere, and speed is, I believe the ideal place to do so. As I do want some power, I couldn't go too high while remaining within the limits, but I believe that 120 is a great spot to sit at. Obviously 120 speed is faster than much of the metagame, including every Pokemon we are looking to target, baring a choice scarf. At the same time though, it sits just low enough to allow a few key things to outspeed. Based on the fact that a number of things listed as checks are as weak to us as we are weak to them (type wise), which things listed as checks are actually able to do so will greatly comes down to speed. And while I think we can afford to outspeed and beat a number of them, due to things like fairies and steels potentailly checking regardless of speed, I think it is important to leave a few really good, fast Pokemon as potential checks, with Greninja and Syclant specifically being prime examples. While neither is going to be reliably switching in thanks to a good Attack stat and strong Dragon STAB, by staying slower than they are, we preserve them as potential checks.

    Attack

    As mentioned already, with the defenses being weak, the strong points of this stat spread is in its offensive capability. The specific stat of 123 does not have any specific importance other than that it is the most powerful we can be within the limits while hiting my desired Speed stat. Now, with regard to the thigns we specifically want to target for trapping, it is going to be very difficult to beat them with straight up damage without having super effective coverage moves. However, should we select those coverage moves, 123 is more than enough power to break through most of them. That being said, since these moves are varied and numerous, and I do not want to poll jump, I'm not going to go too much into the specifics. Rather, I'd prefer to look at how this stat does against the other things we want to beat.

    One of our other big targets is Volt Turn useres, and while we have a good defensive type matchup against a lot of them, offensively we fair more than well enough to make the lot of the think twice before switching in. Volkraken, for instance, is 2HKOd by Spirit Shackle into Outrage, or just back to back Spirit Shackles if you hold a Life Orb. Krilowatt can sometimes take Shackle > Outrage, but will fall to 2 LO Shackles, and, alternatively, can always be dispatched by following up a Spirit Shackle with either Never Ending Nightmare or Devestating Drake. Against an offensive Landorus-T, a Z-Move set will always at least 3HKO, meaning if Lando is switching in, it is forced to spend its Z-Move to take us out instantly, lest it die before it can KO us.

    As far as the other Pokemon listed for us to target many, such as Excadrill, Volcarona, and Mega Charizard Y are always going to be 2HKOed on the switch in, while others such as Keldeo and Tapu Bulu can fall to specific sets with either a LO, a Z-move, or effective coverage.

    With all of that said, 123 Atk is not going to be high enough to allow it to break the things we want to counter us, unless we give it coverage that we shouldn't. Tapu Fini can always avoid a 2HKO (and often a 3HKO), while threating a OHKO in return. Ferrothorn and Celesteela easily avoid the 3HKO and can Leech Seed easily to sap back health. Mega Scizor and Skarmory, on the other hand, take incredibly minor hits, and can heal off the damage very easily.

    Overall, I think 123 Attack allows us to get the powerful hits in where we need them, without going so much overboard that we need to overly worry about what we can and cannot beat.

    Special Attack

    It is within the limit and rounds out our BST to a nice number. Its as high as I can get it within the limit while still getting that nice BST, but still low enough to be absolutely irrelevant, as even HP Fire on weak targets is not going to be anything that such Pokemon can't easily shake off. And if people really want to weaken themselves overall by investing in SpA just to nab a few KOs in such a manner, I do not believe that is a problem.


    Calculations

    All calculations assume a 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe spread with a Jolly Nature.

    Defensive Calcs (open)
    Defining Defensive Deficiencies: These are the calculations I used to figure out how low I felt we needed to set CAP23's bulk. As such, they are all calculations showing how well opponents do against the CAP, and not about trying to show how strong our Pokemon is.

    • 0 SpA Zapdos Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP23: 148-176 (49 - 58.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    • 0 SpA Tomohawk Air Slash vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP23: 129-153 (42.7 - 50.6%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    • 0 SpA Tangrowth Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP23: 134-158 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    • 4 Atk Arghonaut Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP23: 136-160 (45 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    • 4 Atk Arghonaut Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP23: 174-206 (57.6 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    • 4 Atk Arghonaut Knock Off vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP23: 118-140 (39 - 46.3%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    A pair of Knock Offs, with and without an item will always 2HKO if SR is in play, and will do so 92.19% of the time even without SR. As shown, even if our CAP is holding a Z-Crystal, there is a chance for Knock Off to 2HKO if SR is in play.

    • 0 Atk Tangrowth Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP23: 160-190 (52.9 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    • 0 Atk Tangrowth Knock Off vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP23: 108-128 (35.7 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

    Combined the 2 Tangrowth Knock Off hits will KO 100% of the time with SR, or 88.94% without SR. If a Z-Crystal is used, Knock Off will never 2HKO without multiple hazards in play, but will always 3HKO as shown, regardless of hazards.

    Other Defensive Calculations: This is a variety of other calculations showing the defensive ability of this spread against a number of other Pokemon on our threats list.

    These first few are other guys we will want to beat. Unfortunately we will be unable to lure them do to their lack of ability to touch us, but this demonstates what exactly they can do.

    • 0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP23: 37-44 (12.2 - 14.5%) -- possible 7HKO after Stealth Rock
    • 0 SpA Venusaur-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP23: 81-96 (26.8 - 31.7%) -- 56.7% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    • 0 SpA Mollux Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP23: 87-102 (28.8 - 33.7%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

    The next group are the VoltTurn Pokemon. Our real goal with these guys is to discourage them switching in, but I figured I'd show what they can do if they do get in.

    • 0 SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP23: 87-103 (28.8 - 34.1%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    • 0 SpA Rotom-Wash Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP23: 56-66 (18.5 - 21.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Stealth Rock
    • 252 SpA Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP23: 131-155 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    • 0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP23: 169-201 (55.9 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Ro
    • 0 Atk Landorus-Therian Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP23: 297-351 (98.3 - 116.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    The next few Pokemon are some generic offensive threats that we resist. In general they can still 2HKO us, but with our speed and power, the lack of ability for them to OHKO means we can usually check them and they will have no desire to switch in on us.

    • 252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP23: 127-150 (42 - 49.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    • 252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP23 in Sun: 223-263 (73.8 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    • 252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP23: 131-155 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    The next few calcs are about Pokemon that are supposed to check us. As expected, our low bulk makes that rather simple.

    • 252 SpA Life Orb Syclant Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP23: 494-585 (163.5 - 193.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    • 252 Atk Kitsunoh Shadow Strike vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP23: 254-302 (84.1 - 100%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    • 252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP23: 282-332 (93.3 - 109.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    • 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP23: 413-486 (136.7 - 160.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    • 252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP23: 440-522 (145.6 - 172.8%) -- guaranteed

    Finally, this last group are our designated counters. While it will be more clear why they are counters in our offensive calcs, this still is important to show that they actually can retaliate.

    • 0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP23: 123-145 (40.7 - 48%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    • 0 Atk Ferrothorn Knock Off vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP23: 102-122 (33.7 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    • 0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP23: 177-208 (58.6 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    • 0 Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP23: 106-126 (35 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    • 0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP23: 278-330 (92 - 109.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    • 0 Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (100 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP23: 126-148 (41.7 - 49%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Obviously, we do not know our weight, and thus how much power Heavy Slam will have against us, but given Celesteela's weight, I made a conservative estimate that it would have at least 100 BP.
    Offensive Calcs (open)
    To start off, here are some calcs of what we can do against the things that are supposed to counter us.

    • 252 Atk CAP23 Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tapu Fini: 111-132 (32.3 - 38.4%) -- 2.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    • 252 Atk Life Orb CAP23 Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tapu Fini: 144-172 (41.9 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    • 252 Atk CAP23 Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tapu Fini: 222-262 (64.7 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    • 252 Atk CAP23 Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 72-85 (21.6 - 25.5%) -- 0.5% chance to 4HKO
    • 252 Atk Life Orb CAP23 Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 94-110 (28.2 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    • 252 Atk CAP23 Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 144-169 (43.2 - 50.7%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO
    • 252 Atk CAP23 Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Scizor-Mega: 73-87 (21.2 - 25.3%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO
    • 252 Atk Life Orb CAP23 Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Scizor-Mega: 95-113 (27.6 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    • 252 Atk CAP23 Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Scizor-Mega: 144-171 (41.9 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    Next, here are some offensive calcs against some of the offensive Pokemon we want to be able to check.

    • 252 Atk CAP23 Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 154-183 (51.8 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    • 252 Atk Life Orb CAP23 Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 179-212 (55.4 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    • 252 Atk Life Orb CAP23 Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 231-274 (74.2 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    • 252 Atk Life Orb CAP23 Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 348-411 (111.8 - 132.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Finally, here are some calcs against a couple VoltTurn users.

    • 252 Atk Life Orb CAP23 Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Rotom-Wash: 118-140 (38.9 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    • 252 Atk Life Orb CAP23 Outrage vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Rotom-Wash: 175-208 (57.7 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    • 252 Atk CAP23 Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Rotom-Wash: 91-108 (30 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    • 252 Atk CAP23 Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Rotom-Wash: 180-213 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    • 252 Atk CAP23 Spirit Shackle vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Volkraken: 153-180 (44.7 - 52.6%) -- 21.9% chance to 2HKO

    As mentioned in my section on my offensive stats, I fully believe that our ability to dismantle our targets that we want to trap will rely entirely on our coverage moves. Since I want to avoid poll jumping, I'm not going to assume any given move, and thus will not make any specific calcs for these guys. That being said I fully believe that any reasonably powerful (90+ BP) super effective coverage move should be more than enough to deal with almost anything we could reasonably want to trap, so long as we have the option to use it as a Z-Move.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
  15. NumberCruncher

    NumberCruncher

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2014
    Messages:
    515
    WIP

    76 HP / 139 Atk / 96 Def / 60 SpA / 116 SpD / 93 Spe

    PT: 132.5 (Good)
    ST: 155.8 (Excellent)
    PS: 194.9 (Excellent)
    SS: 92.7 (Below Average)
    BSR: 314.9 (Very Good)
    BST: 575

    SPEED:

    We are supposed to both outspeed Lando so we can keep it from U-Turning on us, so at least 91 Speed is necessary. I chose a particular speed such that CAP would still get outspeed by counters such as Zygarde, Kyurem-Black, Tapu Lele, and Naviathan, while still giving CAP some wiggle room to open it up to a broader pool of EV spreads.

    HEALTH AND DEFENSES:

    76 HP gives us 293 as a health total if we have no EV investment, which is a Life Orb number. In addition, we give exceptionally little help to Pain Split mons that want to grind us out, of which there are one or two on our targets list.

    Our Physical Defense is built to let us take a non-boosted Bloom Doom off Wood Hammer from Tapu Bulu, as well as Landorus's non-boosted Continental Crush.

    For Special Defense, this spread gives us a couple of good plusses. Tomohawk can't OHKO us with Hurricane even with Stealth Rocks and a layers of spikes. Icy Wind from Scarf Keldeo is unable to kill this under Rocks. Zapdos's HP Ice does pitiful damage.

    OFFENSES:

    As others have calced, 65 keeps us from 2HKOing standard Mega Scizor without investment if it hadn't mega evolved yet. However, since my Speed stat opens up the possibility that people might opt into having a few extra EVs to toss into luring Scizor, I've reduced the SpAtk a bit to compensate.

    139 Attack allows our mon to get significant hits off with Stealth Rock up. Mollux is OHKOd by Outrage under rocks 30% of the time, always killed by Devestating Drake, and OHKOd under rocks by Never Ending Nightmare. Devestating Drake into Outrage always kills Toxapex. Offensive Zapdos can get OHKod by Outrage, and Defensive Zapdos is OHKOd by Devestating Drake after Rocks. Tomohawk loses to Supersonic Skystrike after Rocks, and Skystrike kills 30% of the time without Rocks with Brave Bird being enough to finish the job off afterwards even if it Roosts (though without a coverage move for Hawk, it can struggle).

    Our Attack is also low enough that our attacks still glance off of our counters, with Spirit Shackle only managing to 4HKO Celesteela, Mega Scizor, and Skarmory, while Ferrothorn gets not quite a secure 4HKO. With a Choice Band, these become 3HKOs, but they all can recover, so we still lose to those.

    Calcs (open)

    252 Atk Tapu Bulu Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina in Grassy Terrain: 243-286 (82.9 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
    252 Atk Landorus-Therian Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 222-262 (75.7 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ SpA Life Orb Tomohawk Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 208-246 (70.9 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 106-126 (36.1 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    0 SpA Zapdos Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 92-110 (31.3 - 37.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ Atk Giratina Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mollux: 415-490 (105.3 - 124.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Giratina Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mollux: 351-414 (89 - 105%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Giratina Outrage vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mollux: 262-310 (66.4 - 78.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ Atk Giratina Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 199-235 (65.4 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Giratina Outrage vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 126-148 (41.4 - 48.6%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ Atk Giratina Outrage vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Zapdos: 256-303 (66.8 - 79.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Giratina Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 289-342 (75.4 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ Atk Giratina Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 368-434 (88.8 - 104.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Giratina Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 368-434 (88.8 - 104.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
    252+ Atk Giratina Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 234-276 (56.5 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    252+ Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 118-141 (29.6 - 35.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 87-103 (26 - 30.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    252+ Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Scizor-Mega: 87-103 (25.3 - 30%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    252+ Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 102-121 (28.9 - 34.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  16. Ander228

    Ander228

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    6
    WIP
    80 HP / 135 Atk / 90 Def / 40 SpA / 130 SpD / 101 Spe

    PT: 128.36 (Good)
    ST: 187.52 (Excellent)
    PS: 211.77 (Fantastic)
    SS: 73.68 (Poor)
    BSR: 331.54 (Very Good)

    101 Speed lets it outspeed M-Char X, Mew and Salamence but not Garchomp or Zoroark.
    135 Atk is more than Tyranitar and Garchomp but equal to Excadrill, Metagross or Salamence.
    130 SpD is the same as Gyarados-Mega, Hoopa-U and Cresselia
    Plenty of fully evolved pokemon have 40 Sp.A: Hariyama, Passimian, Tauros, Kangaskhan...
  17. Rifou88

    Rifou88

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2017
    Messages:
    25
    76/124/88/60/120/93

    PT : 121
    ST: 168
    PS:172
    SS:98
    BSR: 306


    attack:
    I think that having a too high attack stats is kind of anti-concept: if we can just 2KHO our targets, then where is the interest of trapping them first? That's why I choose 124, which allows us to 3HKO all our targets (except mollux, which is OHKO) assuming we have coverages moves (I used zen headbut and earthquake for the calcs) and the stealth rock are set, but not more, to encourage trapping + taunt/ Z move/set up/ any other strategy that include trapping.
    (note on the calcs: I used giratina because it has the right typing but of course I changed the base stats.)

    252 Atk Giratina Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 112-134 (36.8 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 132-156 (31.8 - 37.6%) -- 90.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 106-126 (29.2 - 34.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Giratina Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 198-234 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- 85.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    ( well, in most case it is an 3HKO. anyway, it is impossible to find a attack stats that kill all our target in an exact number of hit.)

    For some pokemon, we need to use outrage to guarantee the 3HKO, but that's not to problematic because, if he is trapped, the opponent can't switch on a fairy. Anyway, this is not what will really happen since we are first going to trap them and dealing damage at the same time, so I just wanted to show that our targets can survive enough time to heal them self, so they could switch in, but that it won't be to long to kill them.

    252 Atk Giratina Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 118-139 (29.2 - 34.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Giratina Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 133-157 (30 - 35.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 153-180 (39.9 - 46.9%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (ok, this is a 2HKO, but only with outrage, so trapping is still usefull)


    special attack:
    the specific number hasn't any real importance, it is just avoiding the 2HKO on scizor-M with HP fire on mixed set and allowing the 2HKO offensive landorus-T with HP ice

    speed:
    we want to dismantle mostly defensive pokemon, so a high speed is not needed. It is nice to out speed landorus-T (wich means a speed of at least 92), so that he can't U-turn before taking damage. On the other side, Zygard is a check, so it would be better if he is out speeding us. That let a speed between 92 and 94. I took 93 just because there is no competitive pokemon with that speed, so no speed tie and less random.

    physical bulk:

    76/88 allows us to tank an earthquake of landorus-T after stealth rock, but only with some hp. Colossoi pursuit has still a chance (37.5%) to OHKO after stealth rock.

    special bulk:

    with 76/120, we can tank 4 volkraken's fire blast and 3 volcarona's +1 fire blast.
    +1 252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Giratina: 118-139 (40.2 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 SpA Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Giratina: 79-93 (26.9 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO


    ----

    thanks for reading and sorry if my post was ugly because of the calcs
  18. nv

    nv The Lost Age
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2012
    Messages:
    2,491
    Final Submission

    84 HP / 133 Atk / 71 Def / 51 SpA / 111 SpD / 101 Spe (551 BST)


    PT: 105.110 (Above Average)
    ST: 165.492 (Very Good)
    PS: 208.093 (Fantastic)
    SS: 86.725 (Below Average)
    BSR: 308.077 (Very Good)

    Offenses: 133 / 51 / 101
    So I've noticed that a lot of these spreads are very similar in that we want to give CAP23 a very good Attack stat, but not overwhelming, while also allowing it to potentially pivot into special attacks. I went with this particular spread because I feel I found the right stats to make CAP23 contend with the threats we want it to trap without becoming an overwhelming force. Specifically, 51 SpA is used so that, with a Life Orb and a neutral nature, CAP23 can still 2HKO offensive Landorus-T with HP Ice, but also fail to 2HKO Mega Scizor with HP Fire before Stealth Rock. 133 Attack doesn't do anything too specifically, but it gives CAP23 enough power behind its STABs and potential coverage to do what it needs to do. Lastly, 101 Speed allows CAP23 to outspeed Zapdos, which is one of the fastest targets that we want to pressure/dismantle. This also allows CAP23 to be checked by Garchomp and a lot of faster Pokemon that it should be checked by such as Latios, Kitsunoh, and Gengar.
    Offensive Calcs (open)
    Giratina was used since it has the same typing, but it has the stats I proposed for CAP23
    Z-Crystal(s)

    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Zapdos: 151-178 (39.4 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Zapdos: 301-355 (78.5 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 103-123 (24.8 - 29.7%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 326-384 (78.7 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu: 236-278 (83.9 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 292-344 (90.4 - 106.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Giratina Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 345-406 (106.8 - 125.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tangrowth: 109-130 (26.9 - 32.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    252 Atk Giratina Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tangrowth: 346-408 (85.6 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 139-165 (34.6 - 41.1%) -- 62.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Brave Bird vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 278-328 (69.3 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 93-111 (20.9 - 25%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Giratina Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 294-346 (66.3 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    Life Orb
    Vs. Counters
    4 SpA Life Orb Giratina Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Skarmory: 88-107 (26.4 - 32.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    4 SpA Life Orb Giratina Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Celesteela: 60-73 (15 - 18.3%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
    4 SpA Life Orb Giratina Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scizor-Mega: 135-161 (39.3 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    4 SpA Life Orb Giratina Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 104-125 (29.5 - 35.5%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

    Vs. Threats
    -1 252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 126-149 (39.4 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    4 SpA Life Orb Giratina Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 161-192 (50.4 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Dragon Hammer vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Volkraken: 234-277 (68.4 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Dragon Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 277-328 (89 - 105.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Drill Peck vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Venusaur-Mega: 179-213 (49.3 - 58.6%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Drill Peck vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tangrowth: 190-226 (47 - 55.9%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Drill Peck vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 161-192 (36.3 - 43.3%) -- 98.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Drill Peck vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 242-286 (60.3 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu: 153-181 (54.4 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Giratina Drill Peck vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu: 205-242 (72.9 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

    Defenses: 84 / 71 / 111
    As mentioned in this thread, 84 HP gives CAP23 a Life Orb number, since I am in the same boat as Korski in that Life Orb, Ghostium Z, Dragonium Z, and maybe Flyinium Z will be the go-to items. 111 Special Defense allows CAP23 to pivot in and out of special attacks and also take on the special attackers it needs to, particularly +1 Volcarona's Fire Blast and Choice Scarf Volkraken, while still losing to powerful SE STAB attacks such as Life Orb Syclant's Ice Beam, Life Orb Gengar's Shadow Ball, or Life Orb Kerfluffle's Moonblast. 71 Defense means CAP23 can live an Adamant-natured fully invested Landorus-T's Earthquake while still dying to supereffective attacks from the likes of Colossoil and Mega Gyarados, allowing it to check what it needs to, but also lose the 1v1 versus Pokemon that check CAP23.
    Defensive Calcs (open)
    Giratina was used since it has the same typing, but it has the stats I proposed for CAP23
    Tanking Hits
    252 SpA Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 84-100 (27.1 - 32.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    +1 252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 127-150 (41.1 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    0 SpA Tomohawk Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 84-99 (27.1 - 32%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 258-304 (83.4 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina in Sun: 118-139 (38.1 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 24-28 (7.7 - 9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
    0 SpA Mollux Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 50-59 (16.1 - 19%) -- possible 6HKO
    0 Atk Tangrowth Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 124-148 (40.1 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    0 SpA Venusaur-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 53-63 (17.1 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO
    0 SpA Zapdos Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 96-114 (31 - 36.8%) -- 69.2% chance to 3HKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 123-144 (39.8 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 164-194 (53 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Losing to Threats
    252 SpA Life Orb Syclant Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 320-377 (103.5 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Krilowatt Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 174-205 (56.3 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Kerfluffle Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 338-400 (109.3 - 129.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 180-212 (58.2 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 180-212 (58.2 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina in Grassy Terrain: 321-378 (103.8 - 122.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 306-362 (99 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
    252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 390-458 (126.2 - 148.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 330-393 (106.7 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 SpA Diancie-Mega Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 332-392 (107.4 - 126.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 288-338 (93.2 - 109.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
  19. Mr Holiday

    Mr Holiday

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    54
    Final Submission

    HP: 108
    ATK: 137
    DEF: 63
    SpA: 42
    SpD: 108
    Spe: 87
    BST: 545

    PT: 119.5 (Above Average)
    ST: 197.6 (Excellent)
    PS: 211.1 (Fantastic)
    SS: 73.9 (Poor)
    BSR: 332.4 (Very Good)

    Offense
    Venusaur-Mega (OU Defensive) Outrage 47.9 - 56.4% 86.3% chance to 2HKO
    Zapdos (OU Defensive) Stone Edge 52.7 - 62.1% 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Toxapex (OU Wall) Outrage 41.4 - 48.6% guaranteed 3HKO
    Tangrowth (OU Physically Defensive) Outrage 35.7 - 41.9% guaranteed 3HKO
    Celesteela (OU Defensive) Spirit Shackle 29.6 - 34.9% guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Ferrothorn (OU Hazard Setter) Spirit Shackle 28.9 - 34% 98.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

    (I picked what I thought would be fairly likely moves for CAP23. People have been talking a lot about Spirit Shackle, so it seemed like a good move to include, Outrage is almost a given for physically inclined competitive Dragons, and Stone Edge just seemed like reasonable Flying coverage. Not trying to poll-jump)

    While I agree we need a high degree of power to help break through our intended targets, I think it's important not to go overboard. Whatever stat spread we go with now will inform our decisions down the road, and while I don't want to risk poll-jumping by going into specifics, I think it's important we not limit our choices later on just because we want an outlandish stat spread now. I feel like 137 is enough to get the job done by itself, but gives us wiggle room later on for possible damage-boosting abilities, high power coverage attacks, etc. These calculations show that, at 137 attack with an Adamant nature is enough to 2-3HKO most of our main targets. This doesn't account for passive damage from our trapping move or entry hazards, or the damage from being trapped in the first place, so it's probably more like a 1-2HKO in most situations. 42 Special Attack is just to keep us from getting to frisky with any of our checks/counters. As it is, Ferrothorn, Cellesteel, and Skarmory are all at the absolute best 4HKO, and I think that's a good place for our CAP to be when faced with it's counters.

    Defense
    Toxapex (OU Wall) Scald 5.5 - 6.7% possibly the worst move ever
    Venusaur-Mega (OU Defensive) Sludge Bomb 12 - 14.2% possible 8HKO
    Venusaur-Mega (OU Offensive Tank) Sludge Bomb 14.2 - 16.7% possible 6HKO
    Zapdos (OU Defensive) HP Ice 21.7 - 26.2% 8.6% chance to 4HKO
    Tentacruel (OU Showdown Usage) Knock Off 25.6 - 30.7% guaranteed 4HKO
    Tapu Fini (OU Calm Mind) Moonblast 42.4 - 50.2% 0.4% chance to 2HKO
    Hydreigon (OU Choice Specs) Draco Meteor 129.6 - 153% guaranteed OHKO
    Marowak-Alola (OU Offensive) Shadow Bone 179.3 - 211.1% guaranteed OHKO

    108 HP and SpD gives CAP23 a large deal of special bulk to play with, allowing it to tank resisted and neutral hits without to much difficulty, and it can even stomach a few weaker super effective hits, though it might not appreciate a strong Draco Meteor or similar move. 63 DEF makes CAP23 a bit tougher than a wet paper bag on the physical side of things, able to take a few weaker hits, maybe even a super-effective hit off something weak. However, it still folds to any kind of even moderately competent physical attacker, and generally wants to avoid being touched by things if it can help it. Obviously, any kind of healing would improve it's survive-ability, but I don't want to get started on that.

    Speed

    87 Speed is, admittedly, a bit odd. My general preference is for fast, powerful sweepers, but that's not what we're making here, so I felt that giving it a lot of Speed would be anti-concept. 87 is fast enough to outspeed most of our targets, especially with proper EV investment (And maybe some team support), without making CAP23 fast enough to pose a threat to most serious sweepers. Since the things it's targeting are generally Special attackers and/or walls, I figure it's ok if we don't always outspeed them; even if, say, Zapdos comes in and outspeeds CAP23, it's not a big deal since there's not a lot Zapdos can do to stop it's inevitable demise. I may fiddle with the Speed a bit more in the future, but I'm already fairly close to the limits, and I honestly kinda like it being a wierd number. That's just me though.


    I don't participate much in competitive play, and I've only contributed to a few CAPs over the years, so I would appreciate any comments, questions or concerns.
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
  20. snake_rattler

    snake_rattler CAP23 Topic Leader, Pun-isher of Evil
    is a CAP Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2014
    Messages:
    1,195
    Hi everyone, it's your friendly TL snake_rattler once again. I just wanted to encourage anyone, even if you're not submitting a stat spread, that you can absolutely discuss the submissions here, discuss a certain speed benchmark we should hit, etc. Discussion here really helps more than you'd think, as virtually any submitter would love some critical (but not mean!) feedback, or just general discussion on CAP23's stats as a whole. With this being said, don't be afraid to post if you aren't submitting anything!
  21. Mova

    Mova

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,461
    Don't mind me passing through a competitive thread, but I would like to quickly suggest to make your guys' Stat Spreads have a base Speed of 109 or less. Either way, you should have enough Speed to outspeed mons like Tomohawk, Tangrowth, Arghonaut, and other slow, bulky mons we want to trap. This value is outsped by Voodoom's 110 Speed, which should check the current CAP with its Dark STAB. Now that it has Nasty Plot from the CAP Updates, it should be able to kill our this dragon after a boost with Dark Pulse.
  22. snake_rattler

    snake_rattler CAP23 Topic Leader, Pun-isher of Evil
    is a CAP Contributor

    Joined:
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    Note: this post does not intend to impart an opinion, but I would like to include a few more examples of base 110s that would also check CAP23 if this were the case: Latios, Kitsunoh, Gengar, and Mega Diancie. These are more relevant threats that have supereffective STAB moves against CAP23.
  23. Yahooboo

    Yahooboo

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2015
    Messages:
    836
    This one seems slightly off to me for the simple reason that it is more physically tanky than specially tanky, when the OP says to aim for the opposite, which is why the PT limit is so much lower than the ST limit.
    Just a small nitpick.
  24. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight RIP DryPass Vaporeon
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    CAP Head Mod

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    Messages:
    8,989
    I kind of disagree with the logic of the OP. If we totally wall many of our target threats they will not stay in, and instead will switch to a more physically offensive ally, especially one with Pursuit. While it is important to avoid getting 2HKOd by a special-oriented target's coverage, if a target feels it is worth the risk to stay in, we can successfully trap them. If they feel physical threats will not be incredibly more effective, they will not reflexively switch to them.

    I also think priority (CAP is weak to Ice Shard, Shadow Sneak, and Sucker Punch; it's not immune to M-Lopunny Fake Out or M-Pinsir Aerilate Quick Attack) and neutral physical attacks will be much more prevalent ways of addressing CAP based largely on typing, and the more buffer CAP has to remain healthy against them, the better it will perform it's actual job. My defenses therefore are much more balanced because I do not want opponents to respond the same way to CAP in every instance, which they certainly will of they think it is never worth it to keep a special-oriented threat in against CAP.
  25. Shasimo

    Shasimo

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2014
    Messages:
    19
    I want to add something to that. When you decide to give a high speed stat to CAP23, you have to balance it in giving a pretty low Attack stat to it. I insist maybe too much but I strongly think that the ability or not of CAP23 to deal with the targets will be decisive for its viability. But first of all, let's talk about the speed.

    CAP23 should be checked by:
    d. Offensive Steel-types: Kitsunoh, Dragon Dance Naviathan, Mega Mawile, Bisharp
    e. Ice-types: Syclant, Kyurem-B, Ninetales-A
    These Pokemon have the coverage, bulk, or power to tackle CAP23.
    f. Dragon-types: Zygarde, Mega Charizard X, Latios, Garchomp
    g. Ghost-types: Mimikyu, Kitsunoh, Gengar
    These two types have a type advantage over CAP23, but the reverse is also true, so they are checks.
    h. Dark-types: Ash-Greninja, Greninja, Colossoil, Mega Sableye, Mega Sharpedo, Mega Gyarados
    i. Fairy-types: Tapu Lele, Kerfluffle, Mega Diancie, Mega Gardevoir, Clefable
    These Pokemon have the bulk, super-effective STAB-boosted coverage, or other qualities to check CAP23.


    This list isn't obviously the sacred text written by Arceus and we don't have to respect each point. But globally, we have however to take it into account to be somewhat coherent. How is Zygarde supposed to win the 1vs1 against CAP23 if it gets 120 in speed ? And against Charizard-X ? Mega Gardevoir ? Gengar ? Latios ? Even Mega Diancie is threaten with anchor shot

    And as I said above, a high speed means a Attack stat pretty low compared at what we can do. If 120 is enough to beat offensive threats, it is though harder to deal with defensive targets. Someone suggests a life orb set with 122 bst Attack.

    252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 136-161 (44.7 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
    252 Atk Garchomp Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 165-195 (54.2 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
    252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 105-124 (34.5 - 40.7%) -- 54.7% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

    We are unable to kill Toxapex no max def in a 1vs1, how can we except to dismantle it successfully like a counter in a tough battle ? We are talking about a meta where the Pokemon inside are very powerful. Defensively, we have created with the help of Game Freak fat walls very difficult to bypass like the ugly defensive core Tomohawk - Chansey - Toxapex for example. Offensively, even without counting toys we built, a large majority of offensive OU mons get at least 130 in Attack/SpA (Magearna, Tapu Bulu, Garchomp, Tapu Lele, Landorus-T, Charizard X, Mega Pinsir, Latios, Charizard Y, Magnezone, Dragonite, etc) and it can rise until 180 for Kyu-B or Kartana. Those who have less than 130 get, except few execeptions, something to increase their gross power like Huge Power for Mega Mawile, Electric Surge for Koko, or Thick Club for Marowak-A. The rest is a tiny minorty and is summarized by Zygarde (thanks to Thoussand Arrows), Mimiku (thanks to Disguise) and rain abusers. The report is globally the same when we look to the CAP Meta, those who dont have a specific niche get a high Attack/SpA or a way to increase their gross power (Guts, etc).

    Dragon/Ghost is nice to handle hits but not to hit. We have chosen a defensive ability. Take a 120 bst Attack to rely entirely on Z-move to dismantle our targets is to play Russian roulette with constantly 50/50 to know when we should use our Z-move in fearing that it doesn't kill or that the opponent does the good anticipation. What's the point to trap if we are faced with that ? To give to our CAP23 the way to beat its checks thanks to a high speed without giving it enough Attack to dismantle our priority targets is to create an other Pokémon, it's to create not a trapper able to deal with stalls but a Revenge Killer strong against slow offense. We should avoid that.

    Thanks for reading
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