CAP 4 CAP 4 - Part 11.5 and Complete Movepool Submissions

Should we allow the new move?


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Sunday

God Bless Nintys Incompetence :*)
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Poll: Should we allow BlindingMire?
Description: There is a serious lack of Gravity, Rapid Spin, Wish, non Dark weak Trick Room, OU viable Heal Bell / Aromatherapy, Encore, Memento, Non Dark weak Perish Song, Psycho Shift, Safeguard, Magic Coat, Me First, Snatch, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Tailwind and Haze Pokemon in our lovely Metagame. I don't know what type, what stat distribution or even what kind of Pokemon would effectively use all those, but I want to build a utility Pokemon for the useful yet less used utility moves. If I had to narrow the field a bit, I would emphasize Tailwind, Gravity, non Dark weak Trick Room, Rapid Spin, Wish and Encore. The normal utility moves like Reflect and Light Screen go without saying.
Primary Typing: Poison
Secondary Typing: Ground
Style Bias: Mixed, Between -5 and -10 -- Slightly towards defence
Build Bias: Between 5 and 10 -- Slightly towards physical
Base Stat Rating: 300 to 419 -- Very Good
Base Stat Spread: 95 / 76 / 109 / 90 / 80 / 105 = 555 Speed Last.
Primary Ability: Persistant
Secondary Ability: Vital Spirit



Like the Base Stat Spread submissions thread, this thread is for throwing around suggestions for a complete movepool. People who demonstrate their talent in building a movepool here will be asked to submit one for the final poll. This is also where Egg Move Groups are discussed.
ALL MOVEPOOLS MUST OBIDE BY THE FOLLOWING:
"A guide on how to create a Pokemon's movepool"
Please note some parts of that are subjective and open to interpretation.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Here is my demonstration of what submissions should look like. Submissions not up to standard will likely be infracted. That included mandatory TMs, submissions containing Banned Moves and more. Use common sence... Please note that level up moves that are also learned by TM do not count as "Competitive Level Up Moves" eg) Earthquake.
Also please use Code tags!!!

My Example!!!
Level Up Moves:
Code:
Pre Evo. Tail Wind
Pre Evo. Icy Wind
[B]Giving wind based moves to the pre-evo makes everything fit better flavour wise. They tie together nicely.[/B]
h. FirePunch
h. IcePunch
h. ThunderPunch
[B]Elemental coverage in the Punches is nice, but not specifically useful...[/B]
1. Tackle
1. Sand Attack
1. Rapid Spin
[B]Weak moves to start with. Albeit one very useful competitivly.[/B]
7. Mud Slap
13. Counter
[B]Being a support Pokemon, DLL would need to defend himself from attack at such low levels. As such Counter fits in very well. He can't attack well, so he hits the opponent with their own moves when a support move can't do better.[/B]
20. Sludge Bomb
27. Toxic Spikes
33. Fissure
40. Earth Power
47. Spikes
53. Earthquake
[B]Alternates between Offencive STAB moves, Spikes and Fissure.[/B] [B]The buisness end of his level up movepool. I wanted to seperate the spikes by a bit and not have attacking moves twice in a row on a support Pokemon. Fissure is cool because he digs holes and stuff ;P[/B]
Only Rapid Spin and the two Spikes are Competitivly Viable on 100% of sets. Sludge Bomb and Earth Power may make a rare apperance on Special Based sets looking for some STAB. Punches lack power so are only recommended if you completly lack coverage. Fissure is a gimmick at best. Counter is cool but situational. Earthquake is also a TM, hence doesn't count.

TM Moves:
Code:
TM01 - Focus Punch [B]Giant fists...[/B]
TM05 - Roar [B]Whirlwind that doesn't hog a moveslot.[/B]
TM06 - Toxic 
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - Taunt
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM29 - Psychic [B]This and the next one are dodgey...[/B]
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM37 - Sandstorm
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM49 - Snatch
TM54 - False Swipe
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM65 - Shadow Claw [B]Hrm...[/B]
TM66 - Payback
TM67 - Recycle
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM69 - Rock Polish  [B]Tailwind that he can't pass to friendlies. Bleh![/B]
TM70 - Flash
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM76 - Stealth Rock
TM78 - Captivate
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM89 - U-turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM92 - Trick Room
HM01 - Cut
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM08 - Rock Climb
I didn't have the heart to cut more for a example movepool >.>

Egg Moves
Code:
Gravity
Wish
Heal Bell
Encore
Pursuit
Me Fist
Filler
(Sorry running out of time)
Wish, Heal Bell and Encore are all good moves. Gravity works on dedicated sets. Again how you define "Competitively Vaible" is key here. Gravity has never before been thought of as competitivly viable before. Will this Pokemon change that? I hope so, but it remains to be seen. Heal Bell probably won't see much of a workout as this Pokemon in itself is immune to most status out there (bar Burn, Freeze and Body Slam hax.
Note: In a perfect world I would know which Pokemon those Egg Moves would come from, but I don't. They're mainly Fairy I think, hence I ditched them into here as it's easier to explain than in the level up. If there are no suitable Pokemon to pass those moves onto it then I recommend you ditch them into Level Up Moves.
EDIT: Ground gives it everything from Smeargle, yay!
 

X-Act

np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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Here is my prototype movepool:

Level-up List:
Code:
(pre-evo: Tailwind)
H. Teeter Dance
H. Gunk Shot
1. Doubleslap
1. Acid
1. Encore
6. Acid
11. Encore
15. Mud-slap
21. Rapid Spin
24. Wish
29. Knock Off
36. BlindingMire
40. Sand Tomb
45. Gravity
52. Toxic Spikes
57. Me First
63. Earth Power
If BlindingMire does not receive the required amount of votes, replace it with Sludge.

TM List:
Code:
TM01 - Focus Punch
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - Taunt
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM37 - Sandstorm
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM48 - Skill Swap
TM49 - Snatch
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM63 - Embargo
TM67 - Recycle
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM69 - Rock Polish
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM76 - Stealth Rock
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Captivate
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute
TM92 - Trick Room
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM08 - Rock Climb
Basically I put every TM support move in the above TM list.

Egg Moves:
Code:
Pursuit
Sand-attack
Sludge
Disable
Mud Shot
Block
Magnitude
Counter
Sucker Punch
I believe this Pokemon will be in the Ground egg group, so, thanks to Smeargle, all these egg moves are automatically possible. Also note that many of the egg moves (if not all) are not too useful competitively.
 

Deck Knight

Blast Off At The Speed Of Light! That's Right!
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Evil Deck Knight shall try his hand!

Some preliminary notes:

When I envision my prevo, It was Poison/Bug with DDL's Head, only with 8 little wings instead of 8 long arms, which is where most of the Wind moves come from. If you need to know where the almighty Leech Life and Gust came from, it would have been at start in place of Pound and Level 17 where Bullet Punch is, respectively. Evolution was envisioned somewhere between Level 30 and 36.

Level-Ups:
Code:
Pre-Evo: Leech Life
Pre-Evo: Tailwind
Pre-Evo: Gust
H: Fire Punch
H: Thunderpunch
H: Ice Punch
1: Pound
1: Growl
4. Mud Slap
7. Knock Off
13. Acid
17. Bullet Punch
22. Pursuit
26. Rapid Spin
30. Whirlwind
36. Earth Power
41. Gravity
47. Acid Blind (BlindingMire)
53. Haze
I suppose the moves you might consider viable are Knock Off, Rapid Spin, Pursuit, Earth Power, and Acid Blind(BlindingMire). We're trying to make Gravity viable here. Othewise Bullet Punch is cool but has no coverage, Whirlwind is likely completely supplanted by Blinding Mire, and I just wanted to add in Haze cause I felt like it. If we can make a viable Haze user, that's a perk. I put Gravity on because honestly, unless this is Bug/Fairy, it won't have any other way to access it.

Rapid Spin + Pursuit make a set, but then Knock Off probably won't make the cut. I've never been miffed about STAB options, because they are almost automatically competing for a move slot. Gravity + Earth Power also mesh well. The obvious base set then of Rapid Spin/Pursuit/Graivity/Earth Power results. That's awesome as long as you're facing an otherwise ground weak Flyer/Levitator, but otherwise you don't pose a direct threat to much.

Egg Moves:

Code:
Encore
Gastro Acid
Helping Hand
Silver Wind
Harden
Bug Bite
Sucker Punch
I pulled everything here from the Bug Egg Group. Silver Wind won't be in the TM's below, its like Psychic on RSE Golduck. If you want Encore you'll have to breed with Shuckle, Ledian or Volbeat. For Sucker Punch you'll need Ariados. The rest are mostly filler, though I figured why not try and make Gastro Acid viable >_>


TM List:
Code:
TM01 - Focus Punch
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - Taunt
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM37 - Sandstorm
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM49 - Snatch
TM54 - False Swipe
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM63 - Embargo
TM66 - Payback
TM67 - Recycle
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM76 - Stealth Rock
TM78 - Captivate
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM89 - U-turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM92 - Trick Room
HM01 - Cut
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM08 - Rock Climb
Basically all I did was make deletions from Sunday's list, specifically Rock Polish, Psychic, Roar, Gyro Ball, and Shadow Claw. RP was too powerful and the rest which I thought didn't match the flavor. I also saw X-Act's list and added in Embargo.

I decided against adding back in Energy Ball and Dark Pulse, and scrapped Ice moves. This has more than enough utility moves to be a nuisance without loading extra attack options.

Final Note to X-Act:

I've been using Acid Blind over BlindingMire because a) BlindingMire is a horrible name [sorry], and b) Acid Blind makes it an extension of a previously existing attack, like Sludge Bomb did with Sludge. Which is also the reason Acid is in my Level-Up move list.
 

Sunday

God Bless Nintys Incompetence :*)
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Some things I forgot to mention:

Icy Wind and Pursuit allowed. All other polled Attacking moves are not.
Wish, Block, Tailwind, Gravity, and Heal Block allowed. All other polled Support moves are not. Moves discussed in the treads as being overpowered will not be allowed. If you do not have a good idea what moves those would be do not post. As in, this isn't the place for your first post in CAP.

Edit:
I'm adding move detail into my movepool suggestion. Which I kinda hope could be more than example...
 

Sunday

God Bless Nintys Incompetence :*)
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Slack Off
Yawn
Status (bar Toxic)
Aqua Ring
Batton Pass
Mirros Coat
Stat Up moves (+Spe stat ups got some support)
Pain Split

Elemental Beams or their 120 BP counterparts.
Close Combat
Cross Chop
Charge Beam
Explosion
Dark Pulse

Other than that if everyone just uses their common sence they should be fine!
 
When the hell did Charge Beam and Dark Pulse become not allowed? I don't remember them being considered banned nor even talked about with any hatred. If anything, they should be allowed within it's movepool.

Springboarding onto that, what is up with this Energy Ball hate? Jesus...I spent long hours trying to show people that it's not overpowering in anyway and BAM, everyone do not liketh. All that hard work for nothing *sigh*. Well it seems I'm going to have to make a movepool of myself since probably everyone and their grandmother are going to follow the same route these example without just causes. Just a moment.

RATE MY MOVEPOOL IF YOU LIKE.

Level-Ups:
Code:
Pre-Evo: Leech Life
Pre-Evo: Tailwind
Pre-Evo: Gust
1: Pound
1: Growl
5. Mud Slap
7. Sand Attack
11. Acid
15. Arm Thrust
27. Pepper Spray (BlindingMire)
31. Wish*
35. Sucker Punch*
37. Gravity
41. Earth Power*
45. Fissures
Weird Level-Up numbers are weird. I removed exceed competitive move to two or three (if you include Sucker Punch) and placed them into Egg Move. Gravity isn't considered competitive viable to most battlers so it can say. Personally it's way more difficult to place everyone you want within a movepool while following a detailed guide. It make you question certain moves position in terms of competitive viable or not.

Note: about the pre-evo, I'm sorta believe it can learning the Elemental and some add-on within it's movepool

TM List:
Code:
TM01 - Focus Punch
TM05 - Roar (He has a mouth goddamnit =/)
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - Taunt
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM34 - Shock Wave (Clap your hands and create a shock wave)
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM37 - Sandstorm
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM49 - Snatch
TM53 - Energy Ball 
TM54 - False Swipe
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM63 - Embargo
TM66 - Payback
TM67 - Recycle
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM76 - Stealth Rock
TM78 - Captivate
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM89 - U-turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM92 - Trick Room
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM08 - Rock Climb
Basically same TM/HM List as DK minus a few moves. Added Energy Ball, Shock Wave and Roar back into the list and remove moves like Flash Cannon (seriously...wtf Flash Cannon over Energy Ball. That just sad ;_;). Neither the first two moves are overpowering nor tainting the "pure" utility concept in anyway. Roar because it save space towards Egg Move/Level-up moves.

Egg Moves
Code:
Mach Punch
Wake-up Slap
Knock Off*
Feint
Encore*
Rapid Spin*
Encore, Knock Off, and Rapid Spin are the only moves that are competitive viable from this list.
 
Well i've looked up quite a bit of this. I think we're going to end up putting this in the ground group no matter how we arrange this but i'll see if I can arrange a non-fairy dependent egg move group later. I'm not bothering too much about what's competitive on this thing yet.

Level up moves:
Code:
Pre-evo: Tailwind
H: Ice Punch
H: Thunder Punch
H: Fire Punch
1: Doubleslap
1: Sand-attack
1: Poison Sting
5: Poison Sting
8: Encore 
13: Mud Slap
17: Helping Hand
20: Rapid Spin
25: Sludge Bomb
34: Toxic Spikes
44: Wish
52: Earth Power
61: Gravity
Okay, Tailwind from pre-evo is a given. The three elemental punches are common heartscale moves (that or it's the fangs). We start off with some light moves that show it's poison/ground typing and hand moves (poison sting twice is not a typo). From then on it's pretty much support moves then attack.

TM Moves:
Code:
TM01 - Focus Punch
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day 
TM12 - Taunt
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance (except most Grass and Fire Pokemon)
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM34 - Shock Wave
TM35 - Flamethrower
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM37 - Sandstorm
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract 
TM46 - Thief
TM48 - Skill Swap
TM49 - Snatch
TM52 - Focus Blast
TM53 - Energy Ball
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM63 - Embargo
TM66 - Payback
TM67 - Recycle
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM76 - Stealth Rock
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Captivate 
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM89 - U-turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM92 - Trick Room
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM08 - Rock Climb
Pretty standard TM list. I wanted Dark Pulse on it but for some weird reason it was banned without discussion. Things of note are Energy Ball and U-turn.

Egg Moves:
Code:
Haze
Counter
Gunk Shot
Block
Sucker Punch
Pursuit
Me First
Trick
Beat Up
Sand Tomb
I wanted to get Haze in somewhere. Counter is a pretty common egg move and most of these are general "useless" support moves... well Pursuit's going to pretty useless on this eh?
 
Code:
TM01 - Focus Punch 
TM02 - Dragon Claw 
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic 
TM10 - Hidden Power 
TM11 - Sunny Day 
TM12 - Taunt 
TM15 - Hyper Beam 
TM16 - Light Screen 
TM17 - Protect 
TM18 - Rain Dance 
TM19 - Giga Drain 
TM20 - Safeguard 
TM21 - Frustration 
TM26 - Earthquake 
TM27 - Return 
TM28 - Dig 
TM30 - Shadow Ball 
TM31 - Brick Break 
TM32 - Double Team 
TM33 - Reflect 
TM36 - Sludge Bomb 
TM37 - Sandstorm 
TM39 - Rock Tomb 
TM41 - Torment 
TM42 - Facade 
TM43 - Secret Power 
TM44 - Rest 
TM45 - Attract (except genderless Pokemon) 
TM46 - Thief 
TM49 - Snatch 
TM52 - Focus Blast 
TM53 - Energy Ball 
TM54 - False Swipe 
TM56 - Fling 
TM58 - Endure 
TM60 - Drain Punch 
TM65 - Shadow Claw 
TM66 - Payback 
TM67 - Recycle 
TM68 - Giga Impact 
TM69 - Rock Polish 
TM74 - Gyro Ball 
TM76 - Stealth Rock 
TM78 - Captivate
TM80 - Rock Slide 
TM81 - X-scissor 
TM82 - Sleep Talk 
TM83 - Natural Gift 
TM84 - Poison Jab 
TM86 - Grass Knot 
TM88 - Pluck 
TM89 - U-turn 
TM90 - Substitute 
TM92 - Trick Room 
HM01 - Cut 
HM04 - Strength 
HM06 - Rock Smash 
HM08 - Rock Climb
I've kept most of the "claw" moves in because I'm unsure of those. It doesn't really have claws, but I"ll see what the general opinion on them is and revise as I see fit.

Code:
Level Up
 
Pre-Evo: Tailwind, Icy Wind
H. Fire Punch
H. Ice Punch
H. ThunderPunch
1. Tackle
1. Rapid Spin
5. Mud-Slap
7. Acid
12. Sand Tomb
15. Spikes
27. Toxic Spikes
31. Gravity
35. Earth Power
45. Wish
53. BlindingMire
Code:
Egg Moves (Ground):
Sludge Bomb
Block
Heal Block
Poison Jab
Mach Punch
Bullet Punch
Encore
This is the part I'm the most unsure about, it'll probably recieve heavy criticism. >_>

Edit: Removed Whirlwind, it makes no sense with BlindingMire anyways added Roar to TMs. Encore is now an Egg Move, I'm abusing semantics like hell with this thing.
 
I'm liking X-Act's moveset the most right now, just because it has everything it needs plus Disable, which might be a fun, off-the-beaten path strategy, similar to Gravity.

Still not too keen about Tailwind though, but that's more semantics.
 
Sunday, I hope that's not just an example because it's my favorite so far. X-Act comes a close second, but it lacks Spikes.
 
X-act is lacking in Shock Wave & Energy Ball TM and probably spikes within Level-up/Egg Move. I could barely find any room for the spikes myself considering all the support moves you want on this fucker =/

Edit: You could possibly give (Toxic) Spikes to it's pre-evo.

Guys, don't forget about Icy Wind.
We haven't forgot about, it's just that Icy Wind kinda suck :c.

Also, Pursuit isn't competitive viable on this guy. Hand Spider's dismal attack stat and that fact most Psychic type would just use Psychic to kill his eight-legged ass instead of running really make Pursuit not so useful.

Calcutations on Pursuit

All neutral natures with
6 atk vs fleeing Azelf: 42.47% - 50.68%
6 atk vs non-fleeing Azelf: 21.92% - 26.03%
6 atk vs fleeing Gengar: 53.44% - 63.36%
6 atk vs non-fleeing Gengar: 26.72% - 32.06%
6 atk vs fleeing max HP/Def Celebi: 16.83% - 19.8%
6 atk vs non-fleeing max HP/Def Celebi: 8.42% - 10.4%
6 atk vs fleeing standard Cresselia: 17.1% - 20.21%
6 atk vs non-fleeing standard Cressy: 8.81% - 10.36%
 
Whats the point of the guide when there is movepools being submitted with up 7 competitive level up moves. The whole viable border is not that debatable.
 
Code:
Egg Moves (Bug, for now):
- Encore (from Shuckle) *
- Counter (from Heracross)
- Spikes (from Forretress) *
- Toxic Spikes (from Forretress) *
- Pursuit (from Scyther)
- Guillotine (from Gliscor)
- Disable (from Venomoth)
- Knock Off (from Drapion)
GT just proved that Pursuit did nothing to things switching, so in no way it is competitive. Whirlwind is not competitive if this thing has Pepper Spray (BlindingMire). Knock Off is the move that's debatable, and I will readily drop it if it is deemed the Egg Move Pool has too many competitive moves. Keep in mind that almost none of these overlap.


Code:
TMs & HMs:

TM01 - Focus Punch
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - Taunt
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM34 - Shock Wave
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM37 - Sandstorm
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM49 - Snatch
TM53 - Energy Ball
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM63 - Embargo
TM66 - Payback
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM72 - Avalanche
TM76 - Stealth Rock
TM78 - Captivate
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Pluck
TM89 - U-turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM92 - Trick Room
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM08 - Rock Climb
Blah, Standard stuff with Shock Wave, Energy Ball, and Focus Punch added in.

Code:
Level Up List!
Pre-Evo: Tailwind, Whirlwind, and random filler moves you'll never use so I'm just going to assume they are the same as this guys moves (besides Tail Wind at lvl. 29 which would be a good place for this guy to evolve).
H. ThunderPunch
H. Fire Punch
H. Ice Punch
1. Poison Sting
1. Sand Attack
6. Rapid Spin *
11. Acid
17. Sand Tomb
22. Helping Hand
25. Sludge
29. Gravity * (Since people want it to evolve when it learns Gravity, Gravity must be near lvl. 30 [I'm serious, most Stage 1 pokemon evolve around level 30])
29. Fissure (yay for a combo that doesn't work as you think it should)
35. Earthquake
41. Sludge Bomb
45. Wish *
51. Earth Power
Only question here is do pre-evo moves count as level up moves? If so, ugh.... Otherwise, I got lazy and just added TM attacks because they are better than anything else. I don't count Earth Power as competitive because this thing won't really be sweeping. I'm still not sure which attack will get more use, Earthquake or Earth Power, but I hope its Earthquake just so Earth Power can be called non-competitive.

To Sunday:
Is Knock Off considered competitive? What about the other stuff I've blurred the line on?
 
Whats the point of the guide when there is movepools being submitted with up 7 competitive level up moves. The whole viable border is not that debatable.
A guide is just that.....a guide. Those rules aren't truly set in stone but to lead people. Give them a skeleton as one could say to help with construction.

Goddamnit...I knew this is where I got my bad feeling from. Now I don't want to leave for GA =/
 

tennisace

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Guys, don't forget about Icy Wind.
By all means, if you can fit all the moves that I'm about to PLUS Icy Wind, be my guest. It said on the poll that a yes vote didn't mean it would be in the movepool.

Now, here's the one that I was sorta talking about on the server, much thanks to darkie for helping a ton with working out the kinks.
It *almost* completely conforms to the guide, except for the heart scale moves, but as Sunday said, those were fine.

Level Up:
Code:
H- Ice Punch 
H- Fire Punch
H- Thunderpunch
1. Sand Attack
1. Pound
1. Growl
5. Sand Attack
8. Pound
10. Growl
13. Acid
17. Magnitude
21. Toxic Spikes
26. Poison Jab
31. Encore
38. Gravity
45. Earthquake
51. Earth Power
60. Fissure
None of that Pre-evo bullshit here. Plus the fact I didn't know I could do it =X

Viable moves that aren't TMs:
Toxic Spikes
Encore
Earth Power

TMs:
Code:
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day 
TM12 - Taunt
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance 
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM37 - Sandstorm
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract 
TM46 - Thief
TM48 - Skill Swap
TM49 - Snatch
TM54 - False Swipe
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM63 - Embargo
TM66 - Payback
TM67 - Recycle
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM76 - Stealth Rock
TM78 - Captivate 
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM89 - U-turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM92 - Trick Room
HM04 - Strength
HM08 - Rock Climb
I relented on Stone Edge/Rock Slide because it didn't really matter.

Egg Moves:
Code:
Spikes
Wish
Tailwind
Rapid Spin
Light Screen 
Cross Poison 
Skull Bash 
Mud Bomb 
Wring Out
Sand-Attack
Disable
Haze
Originally, the egg groups were going to be Bug/Monster. Long story short, I had a hell of a time fitting all the egg moves in, so I gave up and said its the Ground Group. Gogo Smeargle!

Viable moves that aren't TMs:
Spikes
Wish
Tailwind
Rapid Spin

Moves conspicuously absent:
Counter/Mirror Coat - Never really wanted them on here, no room.
Block/Spider Web - " "
Icy Wind - Come on people, there really WASN'T room. It sucks anyways.
New Move - Nothing personal X-Act, but I really don't like making a new move.
Focus Punch- Common sense people, we didn't give it Close Combat/Cross Chop.
Elemental Attacks - Don't make sense.
Thank you a ton darkie.
Rate it!

Changes:
Growl>Leer, Disable as an Egg Move. I can put in one more "flavor" egg move if somebody comes up with a good suggestion.
Haze as the last flavor Egg Move. Roar does the same thing and gets rid of Subs and racks up spikes damage.
 
TM
Code:
TM06 - Toxic
[B]TM10 - Hidden Power[/B]
[B]TM11 - Sunny Day[/B]
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
[B]TM15 - Hyper Beam[/B]
TM16 - Light Screen
[B]TM17 - Protect[/B]
[B]TM18 - Rain Dance[/B]
[B]TM21 - Frustration´[/B]
TM26 - Earthquake
[B]TM27 - Return[/B]
TM28 - Dig
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM31 - Brick Break
[B]TM32 - Double Team[/B]
TM33 - Reflect
TM34 - Shock Wave
TM35 - Flamethrower
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM37 - Sandstorm
TM38 - Fire Blast
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
[B]TM42 - Facade[/B]
[B]TM43 - Secret Power[/B]
[B]TM44 - Rest[/B]
[B]TM45 - Attract ( does this guy have a gender? )[/B]
TM46 - Thief
TM49 - Snatch
TM50 - Overheat
TM53 - Energy Ball
TM57 - Charge Beam
[B]TM58 - Endure[/B]
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM61 - Will-o-wisp
TM62 - Silver Wind
TM66 - Payback
TM67 - Recycle
[B]TM68 - Giga Impact[/B]
TM69 - Rock Polish
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM72 - Avalanche
TM73 - Thunder Wave
TM74 - Gyro Ball
[B]TM78 - Captivate[/B] (see attract)
TM80 - Rock Slide
[B]TM82 - Sleep Talk[/B]
[B]TM83 - Natural Gift[/B]
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM85 - Dream Eater
TM86 - Grass Knot
TM87 - Swagger
TM89 - U-turn
[B]TM90 - Substitute[/B]
TM92 - Trick Room
HM01 - Cut
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM08 - Rock Climb
Thats it.. I hope I didnt miss/delete any important thing =c

Level Up
Code:
H: Fire Punch
H: Ice Punch
H: Thunder Punch
1. Tackle
1. Poison Sting
5. Sand Attack
9. Rapid Spin
15. Acid
18. Encore
23. Whirlwind
26. Gravity
30. Earth Power
35. Toxic Spikes
36. Spikes
42. Earthquake
45. Sludge Bomb
49. Wish
Egg Moves
Code:
Gravity
Wish
Heal Bell
Encore
Me Fist
Same as Sunday but Pursuit
 
tennis: Congratulations, you now have my vote. Perhaps Disable over Leer though? Many people seem to want it, and its not competitive.
 

tennisace

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tennis: Congratulations, you now have my vote. Perhaps Disable over Leer though? Many people seem to want it, and its not competitive.
Disable, eh? Interesting, but Leer is a typical "Low Level" filler. I'm considering changing Leer for Growl though, seeing as it has Roar.
 

DougJustDoug

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I haven't voted in the poll yet. After seeing all these movepools, I'm really having second thoughts about BlindingMire (I prefer the Pepper Spray name suggestion). The new move doesn't add very much to the pokemon's overall movepool that can't be achieved through a simple Whirlwind or Roar. Originally, I liked the new move because it might bring a legitimately usable Poison move to the table. But, in looking at the movepools, it doesn't add much.

If we are going to go through the trouble of making a new move, I'd like it to be a "signature move" that can get some real attention and add something significant to the pokemon. It doesn't have to be a gamebreaking decimate-everything-in-its-path move -- but it should be a real attention-getting feature of the pokemon. In looking at the new move situated in with the rest of the movepool, BlindingMire is just kind of... tacked on. I'm much more excited about fast Encore, defensive Rapid Spin, and usable Gravity. BlindingMire is neat, but if it simply got Whirlwind or Roar, it wouldn't disappoint me much at all.

I'm not going to vote until I've heard some other arguments. But, right now, I think I may reverse my position from the previous poll and vote against BlindingMire.
 

tennisace

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Well Doug, you just basically summed up my argument against BlindingMire. It really brings nothing to the movepool, and there's really not room for it. In my movepool, I can fit ONE more non-competitive egg move, and maybe a couple TMs. The movepools are full. You can't add a new "competitive" move in there, because then you can't fit everything else everyone wants.

On a side note, can Haze pass as a non-competitive move?
 
No bare-bone options towards offense D:. Give this guy a break already, it's already a damn well good utility Pokemon a few non-stab special attacks isn't going to hurt him.

I don't consider Pepper Spray (Blinding Mire) all that viable in my opinion, and if remove then that leaves one more slot for something else. Maybe if it didn't have a lower priority and a bit more BP it would.
 
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