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CAP 15 CAP 4 - Part 12 - Complete Movepool Submissions

Discussion in 'CAP Process Archive' started by bugmaniacbob, Nov 1, 2012.

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  1. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

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    OK the spreadsheet is fully up to date.

    I had some specific comments for people but I kind of forgot them while I was updating... or rather, they got lost in the back of my head. In essence, quite a few people have incorrect counts for VGMs, either through labelling things that aren't VGMs as VGMs or by forgetting to apply move equivalence, or whatever it might be.

    So just remember: Rain Dance is a VGM. Psycho Cut is not.

    Taraa.
  2. jagged_angel

    jagged_angel

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    773
    Aurumoth, a jagged angel. Draft Submission

    Level-Up Moves
    Show Hide
    -- Aura Sphere
    -- Ominous Wind
    -- Leer
    -- Gust
    -- Horn Attack
    -- Charge
    7 Psywave
    14 Glare
    20 Silver Wind
    26 Power Gem
    33 Psybeam
    33 Charge Beam (Repeated in TMs)
    33 Signal Beam (Repeated in Tutor Moves)
    40 Razor Wind
    47 Bug Buzz
    55 Miracle Eye
    63 Megahorn
    70 Tail Glow
    77 Sky Attack
    84 Healing Wish


    Egg Moves

    Show Hide
    Egg Groups: Bug, Field

    Close Combat
    Disable
    Dragon Dance
    Mirror Coat
    Swift
    Safeguard
    Stored Power
    Twister
    Wing Attack
    Wish


    TMs

    Show Hide
    Attract
    Calm Mind
    Charge Beam (Repeated)
    Double Team
    Dream Eater
    Echoed Voice
    Facade
    Flash
    Fly
    Focus Blast
    Frustration
    Giga Impact
    Hidden Power
    Hyper Beam
    Ice Beam
    Light Screen
    Overheat
    Protect
    Psych Up
    Psychic
    Psyshock
    Reflect
    Rest
    Return
    Rock Polish
    Round
    Safeguard
    Shadow Ball
    Sky Drop
    Struggle Bug
    Substitute
    Swagger
    Swords Dance
    Taunt
    Telekinesis
    Thunder
    Thunderbolt
    Toxic
    X-Scissor


    MOVE TUTORS

    Show Hide
    Magic Coat
    Aqua Tail
    Helping Hand
    Trick
    Signal Beam (Repeated)
    Skill Swap
    Wonder Room
    Zen Headbutt



    VGM Summary:

    Show Hide
    Physical Attacking
    Megahorn
    Close Combat
    Zen Headbutt
    Aqua Tail
    Return/Frustration
    Facade


    Special Attacking
    Aura Sphere
    Bug Buzz
    Psychic
    Psyshock
    Stored Power
    Shadow Ball
    Focus Blast
    Thunder
    Thunderbolt
    Ice Beam
    Overheat
    Hidden Power


    Non-Attacking
    Calm Mind
    Tail Glow
    Dragon Dance
    Swords Dance
    Rock Polish
    Healing Wish
    Magic Coat
    Glare
    Trick
    Wish
    Taunt


    NO QUIVER DANCE
    No Hydro Pump


    Flavour Justification:
    The flavour of the moves are inspired by angels, light, benevolence, wind, Aurumoth's glowing tail and eyes, and beam attacks.

    Several moves are grouped or show progression of Aurumoth's strength as it develops:
    Aura Sphere/Ominous Wind (these Heart Scale moves imply that Aurumoth has unlimited untapped potential - the 'perfect coverage' is there but has to be unlocked. Ominous Wind is also very flavourful and fits with Silver Wind later on. The Ghost-type move also symbolizes the dark side of Aurumoth's spirit while Aura Sphere symbolises it's lighter spiritual aspect)
    Charge --> Charge Beam--> Tail Glow (works with the idea that Aurumoth's tail glows to give it Special power, and the fact that it can learn Thunderbolt/Thunder)
    Horn Attack --> Megahorn (pretty self-explanatory, but I really thought Megahorn needed a precursor as it is so strong)
    Power Gem --> Psybeam/Charge Beam/Signal Beam (The idea is that Aurumoth's tail is a rare crystal similar to Starmie's and Vespiquen's gems. As with Ampharos, the gem enables light-generation and beam-attacks. The fact that Aurumoth learns the 3 most relevant beam attacks at level 33 refers to the mysticism of the number 3, it's two sets of 3-part wings, and the Holy Trinity!)
    Leer --> Glare --> Miracle Eye (a reference to Aurumoth's sinister, staring eyes)
    Gust --> Silver Wind --> Razor Wind --> Sky Attack (I really wanted to include Sky Attack as its description sounds very heavenly - "Aurumoth became cloaked in a harsh light!" - so I knew I needed some flight/wind flavour to work up to it. Razor Wind is particularly relevant as it is also a 2-turn charge attack, so it develops in Sky Attack)
    Wish (Egg Move) --> Healing Wish (This refers to Aurumoth's angelic destiny - in an act of self-sacrifice, it ascends to heaven leaving behind its prayer that heals its comrade)
    Twister/Dragon Dance (Egg Moves) (Dragon moves don't fit the flavour that much but Aurumoth needed Dragon Dance, so the fact that it learns this along with the very flavourful wind-related Twister makes it fit more)

    Competitive Justification:

    I wasn't planning to make a submission, but I saw from bmb's handy spreadsheet that no one had the combo of moves I wanted to see on Aurumoth.
  3. Mdevil

    Mdevil

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    109
    Attacking Movepool Sneak Peek!

    Physical
    I'm approaching the physical moves very differently from how I'm approaching the special ones. Phyisical attackers will have a harder time boosting successfully, as I'm not including Dragon Dance. They will have to either have to boost speed or attack if they want to maintain perfect coverage (unless using Swords Dance and Flame Charge.) As a trade off for this, the physical pool will be more unpredictable and varied.


    Special
    Special moves will be better in terms of power and boosting easily, but as a result the sets will be far mor predictable and therefore more easily predicted. That's why I'm including Quiver Dance as many players will run this meaning less is up in the air.

    Any suggestions are appreciated.

    Edit: My apologies; Inferno has been removed.

    Status Update: Movepool is nearing completion; may actually finish it tonight.
  4. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

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    Inferno is illegal. I made it quite clear that no moves of 70% accuracy or lower would be allowed.

    EDIT:
    And that goes for Supersonic too. Sorry.
  5. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight Well-shuffled and flush
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

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    Foiled again. Updated it and removed Supersonic.
  6. capefeather

    capefeather YOU CAN'T STOP ROB
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

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    I could have sworn I just added Agility but my VGM count seems to have gone up by 2...
  7. Mari

    Mari

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2008
    Messages:
    191
    I also have finalized my movepool
  8. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

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    Messages:
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    The Type-Move and Move-Move requirements for BW were removed from the site, so...

    You can find the raw data here:

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3426242&postcount=40

    Note that I won't be here over the weekend, so you have more than 72 hours left to work on your movepools (I will post the 24 hour warning when I get back, or possibly extend further if movepools haven't got on as well as I'd hoped).
  9. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    387
    Final Submission

    75/38

    Offensive VGMs: (21)
    Code:
    [B]Physical:[/B]
    
    Aqua Tail
    Close Combat
    Extremespeed
    Facade
    Frustration
    Megahorn
    Return
    X-scissor
    Zen Headbutt
    
    [B]Special:[/B]
    
    Bug Buzz
    Focus Blast
    Hidden Power
    Hydro Pump
    Ice Beam
    Overheat
    Psychic
    Psycho Boost
    Psyshock
    Shadow Ball
    Thunder
    Thunderbolt
    Supportive VGMs: (17)
    Code:
    Agility
    Calm Mind
    Dragon Dance
    Healing Wish
    Magic Coat
    Protect
    Rain Dance
    Rest
    Sleep Talk
    Stun Spore
    Substitute
    Swords Dance
    Tail Glow
    Taunt
    Toxic
    Trick
    Will-o-wisp
    Non-VGMs: (37)
    Code:
    Ally Switch
    Attract
    Bug Bite
    Double Team
    Dream Eater
    Electroweb
    Flash
    Fly
    Foresight
    Future Sight
    Giga Impact
    Grudge
    Guard Swap
    Harden
    Hex
    Hyper Beam
    Icy Wind
    Leech Life
    Power Gem
    Razor Wind
    Retaliate
    Round
    Safeguard
    Silver Wind
    Skill Swap
    Snatch
    Snore
    Spite
    String Shot
    Struggle Bug
    Sunny Day
    Swagger
    Swift
    Tackle
    Telekinesis
    Wing Attack
    Wonder Room
    Absent VGMs:
    Code:
    [B]Offensive:[/B]
    Attack Order
    Aura Sphere
    Blizzard
    Brick Break
    Cross Chop
    Earth Power
    Earthquake
    Extrasensory
    Focus Punch
    Hammer Arm
    Psycho Cut
    Rock Slide
    Signal Beam
    Stone Edge
    Stored Power
    Sucker Punch
    Superpower
    Surf
    
    [B]Supportive:[/B]
    Acid Armour
    Amnesia
    Barrier
    Cosmic Power
    Cotton Guard
    Counter
    Defend Order
    Destiny Bond
    Flame Charge
    Glare
    Iron Defence
    Light Screen
    Memento
    Mirror Coat
    Nasty Plot
    Pursuit
    Quiver Dance
    Reflect
    Roar
    Stockpile
    Switcheroo
    Thunder Wave
    Whirlwind
    Wish
    
    [B]+ all disallowed moves[/B] 
    Level Up (open)

    16 moves total; 8 VGMs
    + = repeated move

    1: Dragon Dance
    1: Stun Spore
    1: Harden+
    1: Leech Life+
    4: Harden+
    9: Leech Life+
    12: Wing Attack
    17: Silver Wind
    20: Grudge
    25: Psyshock+
    28: Hex
    33: Power Gem
    38: Agility
    42: Bug Buzz
    48: Healing Wish
    55: Future Sight
    68: Tail Glow
    79: Megahorn

    I've gone with a balance of 8 VGMs and 8 flavour moves. While that is a lot even by pseudo-legend status, many of Aurumoth's most useful moves aren't available by TMs or from the Tutor, and I'd rather not make most of its best moves Egg moves only. The level succession of moves is partially a mirror of Hydreigon, though the actual nature of the moves Aurumoth learns at particular levels isn't necessarily based on it.

    Anyway, the vision I have for Aurumoth flavour-wise contains elements of guardian angel and mean spirit. In defining the latter, I'm more specifically taking inspiration from Lucifer et. al: cursed angels banished from heaven. This is shown by the addition of the moves Grudge and Hex. Grudge is a lesser Destiny Bond though is very interesting flavour wise, whilst Hex similarly seems appropriate and has precedent in non-Ghost types learning it before (though no Psychic types but whatever). Healing Wish portrays the guardian angel element - Aurumoth can sacrifice itself to heal a teammate (to allow it commit more evil?).

    The other flavour moves are based on its design. Harden and Leech Life are typical low-level moves learned by Bug types - plus Leech Life's draining effect pays further tribute to the dark angel concept. Given it has six very sturdy wings, it was impossible not to give it Wing Attack. Silver Wind is a cool Bug type move that has a certain level of etherealness about it (for the lack of a better word). Power Gem's reasoning should be clear if you look at Wyverii's sprite. Future Sight is an obvious reference to mysticism/fortune telling, which fits the Psychic element of Aurumoth.

    I've decided to make Dragon Dance and Stun Spore available only by Heart Scale. This is because they don't seem to fit logically with the current move succession, so they're effectively "hidden" moves if you were playing with Aurumoth in-game.


    TM/HM (open)

    37 moves total; 22 VGMs
    + = repeated move

    TM03 Psyshock+
    TM04 Calm Mind
    TM06 Toxic
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM12 Taunt
    TM14 Ice Beam
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM19 Telekinesis
    TM20 Safeguard
    TM21 Frustration
    TM24 Thunderbolt
    TM25 Thunder
    TM27 Return
    TM29 Psychic
    TM30 Shadow Ball
    TM32 Double Team
    TM42 Facade
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM48 Round
    TM50 Overheat
    TM51 Ally Switch
    TM52 Focus Blast
    TM61 Will-o-wisp
    TM67 Retaliate
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM70 Flash
    TM75 Swords Dance
    TM76 Struggle Bug
    TM81 X-scissor
    TM85 Dream Eater
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute
    HM02 Fly

    I would've liked to have been able to give Aurumoth more flavour TMs, but due to the constraints I had to settle with only the most fitting moves. Note the large proportion of VGMs to non-VGMs - this is simply because the most fitting TMs for Aurumoth happen to be mostly competitively viable moves. I shouldn't imagine there's too many surprises here - it learns many of the TMs common by Psychic types, with a few extras such as Will-o-wisp and Swords Dance. There's also BoltBeam coverage and Overheat, which will be accounted for in the Justification section.


    Egg (open)

    Bug Group
    9 moves total; 2 VGMs
    + = repeated move

    Close Combat
    Electroweb+
    Foresight
    Guard Swap
    Hydro Pump
    Razor Wind
    String Shot
    Swift
    Tackle

    Code:
    [B]Move parents:[/B]
    Close Combat - Heracross, Pinsir
    Electroweb - Ariados, Beautifly, Beedrill, Butterfree, Dustox, Galvantula, Leavanny, Mothim
    Foresight - Masquerain, Venomoth, Volcarona, Yanmega
    Guard Swap - Accelgor
    Hydro Pump - Masquerain
    Razor Wind - Leavanny
    String Shot - Ariados, Beautifly, Beedrill, Butterfree, Dustox, Galvantula, Leavanny, Volcarona
    Swift - Accelgor, Forretress, Ledian
    Tackle - Beautifly, Butterfree, Dustox, Forretress, Heracross, Leavanny, Mothim, Venomoth, Volbeat, Yanmega, [S]Magikarp[/S]
    Code:
    [B]Notable illegal combinations:[/B]
    Close Combat + Hydro Pump
    
    Aurumoth learns 2 very useful VGMs from Breeding - the rest is mostly junk with a couple of semi-interesting extras. Note that Close Combat and Hydro Pump are illegal with eachother due to having different parents, though I don't imagine that'll be a problem for anyone.

    Electroweb, Foresight and Razor Wind are all interesting flavour, though note that Electroweb is also available by Tutor. Guard Swap is a funny move that allows Aurumoth to swap its Defense drops onto its opponent - obviously not a competitive move, but it's the kind of dumb thing the in-game AI would run. I just couldn't pass on the hilarity of giving it Tackle and String Shot as Egg moves, by the way.


    Tutor (open)

    13 moves total; 5 VGMs
    + = repeated move

    Aqua Tail
    Bug Bite
    Electroweb+
    Icy Wind
    Magic Coat
    Skill Swap
    Sleep Talk
    Snatch
    Snore
    Spite
    Trick
    Wonder Room
    Zen Headbutt

    Gets a few good moves from the Tutors - most notably Aqua Tail, Magic Coat, Trick and Zen Headbutt. The latter is especially important, as it's Aurumoth's only physical Psychic STAB. Trick and Magic Coat are both great options to abuse with Illusion - elaborated in the Justification section. Snatch, while not normally considered competitively viable, can also be used effectively to some extent with Illusion.


    Event (open)

    2 moves total; 2 VGMs

    Psycho Boost
    Extremespeed

    Finally, Aurumoth receives two great moves via an Event. I've decided not to place any Ability/Nature restrictions on them.


    Justification (open)
    I'm very pushed for time at the moment so I'll keep this relatively brief.

    My vision for Aurumoth is that it'll be a highly versatile CAPmon, capable of attacking from both sides of the spectrum, whilst also wielding a variety of supportive and disruptive moves that can ruin your opponent's plans, putting you in the hot seat to win. I believe my movepool addresses the need for a large reward for using Aurumoth, but at the same time being risky to use to the point where it can't simply be thrown onto any team (the latter factor which is the polar opposite to Genesect; being able to execute its strategy with minimal support required, and hence makes its way onto about 2 out of every 5 OU teams at the very least). Aurumoth will require some support to reach its full potential, mostly in the form of Rapid Spin and/or Magic Bounce as hazards will be a significant issue for it. However, keep Aurumoth safe from them, and you'll have a monster on your hands.

    I believe versatility will be a huge factor in Aurumoth's success. Many Pokemon in OU, even some of most highly regarded, are very predictable due to only having one or two good sets. In such a fast-paced metagame where a single mistake could cost you all of your momentum, Aurumoth can distinguish itself by having multiple sets of roughly equal effectiveness; its incredible offensive stats have a prominent role to play in this aspect. Whilst it will have issues with 4MSS, its movepool gives it a high degree of plasticity. As each of its sets have different checks, there is no safe, reliable way of dealing with Aurumoth. It can also go mixed to surprise normal checks to a particular set, like running Overheat with a physical set to beat Skarmory/Forretress, for example.

    I've given Aurumoth a large selection of coverage moves - Fire/Water/Electric/Ice/Fighting are among the best coverage types. This allows it to threaten a wide range of Pokemon without requiring any offensive boosts. It gets less physical coverage than special coverage - only Close Combat and Aqua Tail - though this is balanced out by the ability to use Dragon Dance and the sheer power of STAB Megahorn. My selection of supportive moves allow all three abilities to be abused and let Aurumoth perform a variety of roles, though it can't effectively perform more than one role at a time. For example, it can clean up offensive teams with a LO, No Guard and Agility (bare in mind that a +1 Aurumoth can be revenge killed by Scarf Genesect), though needs to utilise Tail Glow in order to have the power to break through stall teams. Calm Mind can be used to patch up Aurumoth's poor Sp. Defense stat to allow it to more easily get speed boosts from Weak Armor so it can try and sweep a team. Dragon Dance allows it to muscle through both offensive and stall teams, though it is easier to check than the Special sets. Swords Dance seems outclassed at a glance, though Extremespeed allows it to work around its average speed stat in a similar vain to Lucario (+2 Adamant LO Extremespeed OHKOs Tornadus-T after Stealth Rock) whilst still having much more immediate power than the DD set (for example, +2 Adamant LO Megahorn OHKOs physically defensive Ferrothorn and Hippowdon after 1 layer of Spikes). Illusion can be used in combination with any of the mentioned boosting moves, as it can potentially grant you a free turn in order to set up, and can potentially bluff other boosting 'mons (especially with Dragon Dance and Calm Mind).

    Outside of boosting moves, it can be highly disruptive with Will-o-wisp, Stun Spore, Trick, Taunt, Magic Coat etc. All of them are incredible with Illusion - their surprise value is what makes them so useful. It can cripple things with Will-o-wisp and Stun Spore, which can also take advantage of No Guard. Magic Coat can be used on Illusion leads in order to simultaneously block and place SR on the opponent's side vs hazard leads, as well as reflect things like Breloom's Spore, though there's obvious risk associated with the move. It also has the rather gimmicky Healing Wish which can provide invaluable team support when it has no reason to be alive anymore.

    It may seem as if I'm trying too hard to promote Illusion and No Guard over Weak Armor, but keep in mind that Aurumoth still has to get around its bad speed tier, which in combination with its common weaknesses + vulnerability to hazards, contribute to the risk factor associated with using it. Therefore, Weak Armor is often the ability of choice on more offensively inclined sets, even on those utilising Dragon Dance, as it can potentially get +1 Atk / +2 Spd.

    I've decided against Quiver Dance despite what I've said before as whilst I do not believe it would break Aurumoth, I think it takes away too much from the risk element - it's too "easy" of a move-pick, and I think the concept will be more conclusive if we force Aurumoth to have to make different choices depending on what it wants to do.
  10. capefeather

    capefeather YOU CAN'T STOP ROB
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
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    Posting to say I have added the VGM Trick. I am also slowly progressing through my explanations, so don't worry! We'll get to that special place soon!
  11. ThePhalanx

    ThePhalanx

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Messages:
    255
    So, I was originally not going to do anything this stage, but then I decided "Hey, why not? There's a first time for everything, and I don't lose anything by doing it (except time)!" As a result, here's my very much WIP Movepool. It's probably (definitely) not the best one out there, but I like it nonetheless. There are still some things I'm quite iffy about though.

    Current Number of Moves: 74/75
    Current Number of VGMs: 38/38
    (Repeats/Outclasses are not counted)

    VGMs in Bold, Repeats with an asterisk*

    Level Up - 16 Moves, 8 VGMs
    Show Hide
    Lv1 Gust
    Lv1 Leech Life
    Lv1 Confusion
    Lv1 Harden* Repeat in Egg Moves
    Lv6 Telekinesis* Repeat in TMs
    Lv11 Flash
    Lv16 Psybeam
    Lv20 Bug Bite
    Lv25 Protect* Repeat in TMs
    Lv31 Psycho Cut
    Lv37 Swords Dance* Repeat in TMs
    Lv42 Wish
    Lv48 Cosmic Power
    Lv53 Bug Buzz
    Lv59 Psychic* Repeat in TMs
    Lv65 Tail Glow

    If you're wondering why Harden and Protect, it's because of that gif KoA posted where Aurumoth's wings double as a 'shell.' If I remember I'll edit in in here. The rest should be self explanatory, for both flavour and competitive reasons. I tried to make it resemble an in-game level up: nothing but STAB moves, support moves, and a random base 40 starting move.


    TMs and HMs - 46 Moves, 25 VGMs
    Show Hide
    TM03 Psyshock
    TM04 Calm Mind
    TM06 Toxic
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM13 Ice Beam
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM16 Light Screen
    TM17 Protect* Repeat in Level Up
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM19 Telekinesis* Repeat in Level Up
    TM20 Safeguard
    TM21 Frustration* Repeat in Return
    TM22 Solarbeam
    TM24 Thunderbolt
    TM25 Thunder
    TM27 Return* Repeat in Frustration
    TM29 Psychic
    TM30 Shadow Ball
    TM32 Double Team
    TM33 Reflect
    TM39 Rock Tomb
    TM42 Facade
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM48 Round
    TM49 Echoed Voice
    TM50 Overheat
    TM51 Ally Switch
    TM52 Focus Blast
    TM61 Will-O-Wisp
    TM63 Embargo
    TM67 Retaliate
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM70 Flash* Repeat in Level Up
    TM71 Stone Edge
    TM73 Thunder Wave
    TM75 Swords Dance* Repeat in Level Up
    TM76 Struggle Bug
    TM77 Psych Up
    TM81 X-Scissor
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute
    HM01 Cut
    HM02 Fly
    HM04 Strength

    I'm not sure about some of them, especially Dual Screens - while it makes sense, does it remove too much risk? Maybe I'll just get rid of Light Screen. For now, though, I'm keeping them both.


    Egg Moves (Bug/Monster) - 9 Moves, 4 VGMs
    Show Hide
    Harden* - Butterfree, Beedrill, Heracross, Pinsir, Beautifly, Dustox, Ninjask, Shedinja, Volcarona. Repeat in Level Up
    Dragon Dance - Charizard, Feraligatr, Tyranitar, Haxorus
    Ancientpower - Charizard, Meganium, Feraligatr, Tyranitar, Yanmega
    Silver Wind - Butterfree, Venomoth, Ledian, Scizor, Ninjask, Shedinja, Volbeat, Beautifly, Dustox, Masquerain, Mothim, Yanmega, Leavanny, Volcarona
    Ominous Wind - Masquerain
    Whirlwind - Butterfree, Snorlax, Beautifly, Dustox, Masquerain, Rampardos, Drapion, Yanmega, Volcarona
    Tail Glow* - Volbeat. Repeat in Level Up
    Final Gambit - Accelgor, Shuckle, Ninjask, Shedinja
    Megahorn - Nidoking, Heracross, Rhyperior, Scolipede, Escavalier

    Notable Compatibilities/Incompatibilities (open)

    Dragon Dance + Megahorn is ILLEGAL.
    Reasoning will be explained in-depth in my Final Submission


    Yes, the three Ancientpowers. Why? Flavour, and for the lolz. I probably missed out some parents, but at least I got most of them. I think this is OK, but again I might change these up.


    Tutor Moves - 10 Moves, 6 VGMs
    Show Hide
    Earth Power
    Iron Defense
    Magic Coat
    Magic Room
    Signal Beam
    Skill Swap
    Superpower
    Tailwind
    Trick
    Wonder Room
    Zen Headbutt

    Most of these (like the two 'rooms') are for flavour. I wanted to add Trick Room to the TMs list to round out the set, but apparently that's a disallowed VGM. Oh well. Illusion + Skill Swap shenanigans, anyone?


    Considerations
    I haven't got Agility or equivalents, as I believe that speed should be kept as a weakness to this CAP. I also kept QD out, despite going amazingly flavour-wise, because I still wanted low SpD to be a weakness for Aurumoth. As for coverage moves, I'm not really sure what to add/remove. I'd remove Ice Beam (HP Ice for coverage... yesss >:]) but I remember bmb kinda being adamant on having it for Dragonite, and I'm not that mean. There are also quite a number of moves I had to remove because of the movepool limit which I may add it if I need to get rid of some. Most are just flavour moves though. I also want to reiterate how much Roost/Morning Sun fits on this CAP... too bad :[

    I will probably end up changing this quite a bit before the deadline.

    Changelog
    Removed Dream Eater from TMs
    Removed Aura Sphere and Hex from Level Up
    Added Focus Blast to TMs
    Added Wish and Psychic to Level Up
    Made Megahorn an Egg Move and added Tail Glow in its place
    Removed Power Gem from Egg Moves (thanks, C&P!)
    Added Stone Edge to TMs
    Replaced Glare with Bug Bite in Level Up

    List of interesting ideas to add:
    -Priority (Sucker Punch most likely, Extremespeed seems kinda eh)


    Final Submission Checklist (for me, so I don't forget)
    Show Hide
    -Full Movepool
    -Explanations for each part of the movepool (Illegalities, etc)
    -Explanations for having certain moves (Focus Blast, etc)
    -Explanations for not adding certain moves (Quiver Dance, etc)
    -Roles/Movesets this movepool allows
    -Example sets
  12. srk1214

    srk1214 Pthbbt Pthbbt Pthbbt Pthbbt Pthbbt
    is a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Messages:
    1,954
    Final Submission

    66 moves, 38 VGMs

    Level-Up Moves (open)
    (15 moves, 9 VGMs)

    -Sucker Punch
    -Bug Bite
    -Tackle
    -Silver Wind
    -Psywave
    20. Psywave
    27. Tail Glow
    32. Agility
    38. Future Sight
    42. Stored Power
    46. Cosmic Power
    54. Psycho Cut
    61. Healing Wish
    67. Bug Buzz
    72. Psychic
    80. Megahorn

    The level-up movepool is fairly straightforward. Largely inspired by Metagross' movepool (but like a buggy version), as they are the two Psychic pseudo-legendaries. As I had no egg movepool (see below), the boosting moves Agility, Tail Glow, and Cosmic Power had to fit in here. Tail Glow is learned by level-up only by Volbeat at level 21 (and Manaphy at start), so I felt 27 and being the first real move learned by Aurumoth was appropriate. Agility is generally learned by level-up in the 30s, and Cosmic Power is learned by Sigilyph, the only Gen Ver with level-up Cosmic Power, at 48, so 32 and 46 felt appropriate spots for those moves. Patterns such as these largely decided what moves were learned when. The general flavor to consider is that until Bug Buzz at 67, Aurumoth lacks a "reliable" VGM attacking move.

    The one aspect of my level-up movepool that doesn't thrill me is the Heart Scale Sucker Punch. I generally dislike the flavor of a punching move, and a Dark one at that, on an angelic creature of sorts. But I felt it was competitively good to have in my movepool and I had made the decision to value Egg Group flavor over the ugly Heart Scale-ness of Sucker Punch.
    Egg Moves (open)
    (Genderless; 0 moves, 0 VGMs)

    I decided I felt Aurumoth would best fit as a Genderless Pokemon. This has precedent among the Pseudo-Legendaries with Metagross. This is even more perfect of a fit, since Metagross is the other Psychic Pseudo-Legendary, and is one half of the part Psychic-part Dragon Pseudo-Legendary pair from Gen III. Now Aurumoth, along with Hydreigon, will be part of a similar part Psychic-part Dragon pairing. Also, I frankly just don't see Angels as gendered things, or at least not breeding things.

    Oh, and this notably explains the exclusion of Attract from the TMs to follow.
    TM/HM Moves (open)
    (40 moves, 22 VGMs)

    TM03 - Psyshock
    TM04 - Calm Mind
    TM06 - Toxic
    TM10 - Hidden Power
    TM11 - Sunny Day
    TM12 - Taunt
    TM15 - Hyper Beam
    TM16 - Light Screen
    TM17 - Protect
    TM18 - Rain Dance
    TM19 - Telekinesis
    TM20 - Safeguard
    TM21 - Frustration
    TM22 - SolarBeam
    TM24 - Thunderbolt
    TM25 - Thunder
    TM27 - Return
    TM29 - Psychic
    TM30 - Shadow Ball
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM33 - Reflect
    TM42 - Facade
    TM44 - Rest
    TM48 - Round
    TM50 - Overheat
    TM51 - Ally Switch
    TM52 - Focus Blast
    TM56 - Fling
    TM68 - Giga Impact
    TM70 - Flash
    TM73 - Thunder Wave
    TM75 - Swords Dance
    TM76 - Struggle Bug
    TM77 - Psych Up
    TM81 - X-Scissor
    TM87 - Swagger
    TM90 - Substitute
    HM01 - Cut
    HM02 - Fly
    HM04 - Strength

    Generally standard fare. Nothing here should feel out of flavor really. Competitive aspects of many of the VGMs will be discussed below.
    Tutor Moves (open)
    (12 moves, 7 VGMs)

    Bug Bite
    Earth Power
    Electroweb
    Magic Coat
    Recycle
    Signal Beam
    Skill Swap
    Sleep Talk
    Snore
    Superpower
    Trick
    Zen Headbutt

    Here's where Aurumoth gets a lot of what it will need. Zen Headbutt and Superpower are virtually necessary on Physical sets. Earth Power provides helpful coverage on Special sets. Trick provides general utility. Sleep Talk in all likelihood is not a competitive issue, though I am amused by the prospect of an Aurumoth set reminiscent of Last Pokemon Snorlax: RestTalk Double Power! If Tyranitar and Hydreigon are gone, in certain situations, Cosmic Power Stored Power with RestTalk support could be serious gimmicky fun.
    DW Moves (open)
    (2 moves, 1 VGMs)
    Aurumoth (or whatever is the first stage of the evolutionary line) is encountered in the Pleasant Forest. It will be at Level 10, have the Ability Illusion, and the DW moves Psycho Boost and Miracle Eye, along with the standard already in movepool Psywave.

    Illusion is the option I picked since both Illusion and Psycho Boost emphasize a hit-and-run usage.

    After removing duplicates:
    SUMMARY (open)
    (67 moves, 38 VGMs)

    Physical VGMs: 7
    Facade
    Frustration/Return
    Megahorn
    Sucker Punch
    Superpower
    X-Scissor
    Zen Headbutt

    Special VGMs: 13

    Bug Buzz
    Earth Power
    Focus Blast
    Hidden Power
    Overheat
    Psychic
    Psycho Boost
    Psyshock
    Shadow Ball
    Signal Beam
    Stored Power
    Thunder
    Thunderbolt

    Non-attacking VGMs: 18

    Agility
    Calm Mind
    Cosmic Power
    Healing Wish
    Light Screen
    Magic Coat
    Protect
    Rain Dance
    Reflect
    Rest
    Sleep Talk
    Substitute
    Swords Dance
    Tail Glow
    Taunt
    Thunder Wave
    Toxic
    Trick

    Non-VGMs (or Flavor, if you will): 28

    Ally Switch
    Bug Bite
    Cut
    Double Team
    Electroweb
    Flash
    Fling
    Fly
    Future Sight
    Giga Impact
    Hyper Beam
    Miracle Eye
    Psych Up
    Psycho Cut
    Psywave
    Recycle
    Return
    Round
    Safeguard
    Silver Wind
    Skill Swap
    Snore
    SolarBeam
    Strength
    Struggle Bug
    Sunny Day
    Swagger
    Tackle
    Telekinesis


    Alright, nitty gritty time. Notable inclusions and exclusions. First the attacking moves:

    Aqua Tail, Close Combat, Cross Chop, Hammer Arm, Earthquake, Rock Slide, Stone Edge excluded.
    - Other Fighting moves, Aqua Tail, and Earthquake excluded because it ensures that Superpower must be used for coverage against Heatran on Physical sets. Superpower, to me, seems like the definition of high-risk, high reward. To be honest, Rock moves don't provide too much coverage alongside Bug/Psychic and they don't fit flavor, so I left them out as well.

    Extremespeed excluded. Sucker Punch included.
    - I felt more reliable and +2 Priority was unnecessary. Sucker Punch seemed the better option to me and was included instead.

    Blizzard and Ice Beam excluded.
    - No. We should not be giving Ice coverage. Hidden Power Ice is an option already if you are worried about Dragons and I don't believe any more should be available.

    Earth Power included. Aura Sphere excluded
    - Offered as an alternative to Focus Blast on non-No Guard sets. Offered instead of Aura Sphere for pure flavor reasons.

    Psycho Boost included.
    - At this current moment, as a DW move exclusive with what I feel fits best with Psycho Boost (and is therefore DW), Illusion. Don't worry about Egg moves or anything anyway though, since my Aurumoth has none. May be changed to Event if BMB tells me to.

    Now the support options:

    Dragon Dance and Quiver Dance excluded. Agility, Tail Glow, Swords Dance, Calm Mind, Cosmic Power included.
    - I have been of the opinion that boosting speed and attack together feels far less risky than requiring boosting one or the other. Some have expressed concern about Calm Mind and Cosmic Power boosting Special Defense, intended to be weaker, but I just honestly can't see a bulky defensive booster working all that well with the only Recovery provided being RestTalk. RestTalk Calm Mind isn't going anywhere Crocune-ish any time soon without STAB Scald in its favor. And RestTalk Double Power, as I said above is nothing more than a fun gimmick.

    Thunder Wave included, Will-o-Wisp excluded.
    - Pretty much because of the existence of No Guard and flavor considerations, though I can't say I see Will-o-Wisp seeing use without reliable recovery, which Aurumoth lacks. And honestly, I don't see an argument against Thunder Wave.
  13. Mdevil

    Mdevil

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    109
    A wild Final Submission appears!

    Pointless Personal Intro (open)
    Hello and welcome to my first ever submission here on the CAP sub forum. I hope you enjoy reading this as much as I enjoyed making it. It was quite entertaining, as well as stressful. Please, take the time to read the seasonings I have to go along with my pool; otherwise it will seem to be absolute rubbish, as I had a particular goal in mind while creating this as you shall see. Also, this being my first submission, I attempted to follow as many "rules" as possible: type-move combos, move-move combos, etc. Banned VGM limits meant I could not fully accomplish this but I did my best. I, being very unfamiliar with this concept as, once again, I am new, did not consider precedence much when crafting this pool. If that turns you off I entirely understand. I can't believe anyone read this far into my pointless little intro. Thanks for reading; enjoy the ride; <3


    Level Up Moves (also format reference) (open)
    7(VGM)/38(Total VGMs) 7(VGMs)/17(Total moves in this section) 17(Total moves in this section)/75(Total moves)
    VGM | Repeated move | Equivalant to another VGM
    Start-Quick Attack
    Start-Teleport
    Start-Fling
    10-Pin Missile
    17-Confusion
    24-Bug Bite
    30-Glare
    33-Safeguard
    36-Cosmic Power
    41-Psycho Cut
    46-Light Screen
    53-Extreme Speed
    61-Wish
    63-Defend Order
    70-Future Sight
    73-Attack Order
    83-Destiny Bond


    Level Up Reasoning/Description (open)
    I know what your thinking, I'm thinking the same thing too... Yes, that level up is complete crap. I'm not really a fan of it either but I feel it accomplishes what I set out to accomplish with the level up pool specifically. Imagine yourself in the game. Somehow you manage to acquire Arumoth's first evolution (assuming it's a three stage evo) as a starter. The only real goal I had with this section of the movepool was to make a pokemon that would be fun to level up, not one that is necessarily precedented in the games and therefore valid. As you can see from looking at it, you don't exactly get everything you need from the start. By that I mean its awful at the beginning. But as it levels up, instead of gaining stronger and stronger attacks, similar to other pokes, it would simply get better defensive options to support attacks that never really stop being weak for the level acquired (level 41-Psycho Cut) or gimmicky (priority, Fling, Future Sight, Pursuit, Destiny Bond.) If you see it in this light maybe you will like it a bit more.


    TM/HM Moves (open)
    22/38 22/42 42/75
    TM03 Psyshock
    TM06 Toxic
    TM07 Hail
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM13 Ice Beam
    TM14 Blizzard
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM16 Light Screen
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM19 Telekinesis
    TM20 Safeguard
    TM21 Frustration
    TM22 Solar Beam
    TM26 Earthquake
    TM27 Return
    TM29 Psychic
    TM30 Shadow Ball
    TM31 Brick Break
    TM32 Double Team
    TM39 Rock Tomb
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Flame Charge
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM50 Overheat
    TM52 Focus Blast
    TM56 Fling
    TM59 Incinerate
    TM61 Will-o-Wisp
    TM67 Retaliate
    TM70 Flash
    TM71 Stone Edge
    TM75 Swords Dance
    TM76 Struggle Bug
    TM77 Psych Up
    TM78 Bulldoze
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM85 Dream Eater
    TM87 Swagger
    TM88 Pluck
    TM90 Substitute
    HM01 Cut

    HM02 Fly


    TM/HM Moves Reasoning/Description (open)
    As you can see, this is where the bulk of the moves lie. By the way, I had no idea how annoying those move-move combos would be. So many moves wouldn't be in my pool were it not for that. Ugh... what a pain. I'm going to save what my goals were until I get to the Overall Reasoning section (which you could just skip to if that bothers you.) Instead here I'll talk about why so many moves are here. It really is just about all because of the type-move/move-move combos. Because of my overall goal (Overall Reasoning once again, for the forgetful among us) I had to include Stone Edge and Earthquake. That meant I had to have Bulldoze and Rock Slide. Rock Slide just so happened to be a VGM. Other things weren't as important like the numerous "flavor" moves required for being a Psychic type/having Psyshock/Psychic. I realize this isn't really reasoning for why I chose the moves (at least not the competitively important ones) and is more along the lines of reasoning for why there are so many moves here, but where else can I complain?


    Egg Moves (open)
    5/38 5/8 8/75
    Bug Egg Group Only fully evolved fathers are listed (excluding combee)

    Agility - Accelgor, Beedrill, Scizor, Ledian, Ariados, Masquerain, Ninjask, Scolipede, Galvantula,
    Durant, Parasect, Venomoth, Drapion, Leavanny​
    Bug Buzz - Accelgor, Galvantula, Butterfree, Venomoth, Ledian, Yanmega, Beautifly, Dustox,
    Masquerain, Volbeat, Illumise, Kricketune, Mothim, Combee, Leavanny, Escavalier, ​
    Volcarona, Scizor, Ninjask​
    Close Combat - Heracross, Pinsir

    Final Gambit - Accelgor, Ninjask, Shuckle

    Harden - Butterfree, Beedrill, Pinsir, Beautifly, Dustox, Ninjask, Armaldo, Wormadam, Heracross,
    Volcarona​
    Sucker Punch - Galvantula, Drapion, Ariados

    Swift - Ledian, Yanmega, Accelgor, Forretress, Butterfree, Beedrill, Venomoth, Scizor, Ariados,
    Dustox, Beautifly, Masquerain, Ninjask, Volbeat, Illumise, Mothim, Combee​
    Quiver Dance - Volcarona, Butterfree, Venomoth, Beautifly, Dustox, Masquerain, Mothim


    Egg Moves Reasoning/Description (open)
    As you can see, Quiver Dance is included. Why this is so and Dragon Dance isn't shall be disclosed in the General Reasoning portion (feel free to skip.) Harden and Swift are obviously just flavor and I'm am considering making them obtainable via pre-evo but haven't decided yet. Close Combat is a basic physical attacking Fighting type move, as every pokemon player knows. Agility will be explained along with the other things in General Reasoning. Final Gambit... Come on, with this HP stat it's a must have. By the way, I wish I had thought of that Payday thing, Nyttyn; alas, I shall not steal your thunder...


    Tutor Moves (open)
    4/38 4/8 8/75
    Aqua Tail
    Bug Bite
    Earth Power
    Electro Web
    Icy Wind
    Skill Swap
    Sleep Talk
    Zen Headbutt


    Tutor Moves Reasoning/Description (open)
    My favorite part of this particular section is the BoltBeam combo of Electro Web+Icy Wind. These moves are very similar in the fact that they both lower the opposing pokemon's speed; quite fun. Bug Bite, Skill Swap, Snore... all just filler. I guess someone could make a CroAurumoth if they want to; it would be interesting to see. Zen Headbutt and Earth Power are the big things here giving Aurumoth another physical STAB and another special coverage move.


    VGM List (open)
    Note: I would do these in alphabetical order but I'm lazy; the order is the same as they appear above but all in one place and with no repeats and equivalants more clear.

    Glare
    Cosmic Power/Defend Order
    Light Screen
    Extreme Speed
    Wish
    Attack Order
    Destiny Bond
    Psyshock
    Toxic
    Hidden Power
    Ice Beam
    Blizzard
    Protect
    Rain Dance
    Frustration/Return
    Earthquake
    Psychic
    Shadowball
    Brick Break
    Facade
    Flame Charge
    Rest
    Overheat
    Focus Blast
    Will-o-Wisp
    Stone Edge
    Swords Dance
    Rock Slide
    Substitute
    Agility
    Bug Buzz
    Close Combat
    Sucker Punch
    Quiver Dance
    Aqua Tail
    Earth Power
    Sleep Talk
    Zen Headbutt


    Overall reasoning (open)
    The long awaited and fabled section of this post. The almighty, holy scriptures defining this movepool. If you saw my initial announcement of this movepool's coming you saw a sneak peak with a general idea of this. Basically, competitively, this movepool operates on a basic division between the play styles of physical and special sets. Physical movepools have more options; Sucker Punch to hit ghost/psychic types or Extreme Speed to hit everything else. Flame Charge, Aqua Tail, Earthquake, and Stone Edge (if you want that for some reason) are all usable. Special sets, however are much more powerful in general with less moves to hoose from. This means they can be more easily predicted as they are basically limited to Earth Power, Focus Blast, Overheat (not good for sweeping, and I didn't even want it; it was a move-move combo,) or Blizzard/Ice Beam in terms of third move coverage. This basically means that most Illusion sets will have Earth Power while most No Guard sets will run Focus Blast (Weak Armor isn't very useful to the special side of this movepool due to Quiver Dance.) Physical attackers have much more variety in attacks, at the cost of not having Dragon Dance. Instead players must use either Swords Dance or Agility or Flame Charge or Weak Armor to boost. This means both sides have a risk to them (weakened power or versatility) and a reward (heightened power or relative versatility.) Hopefully you like this idea and how it was executed.

    Two quotes which supports this idea. | Note: These quotes do not necessarily support the movepool but do support the idea behind it.

    This is the exact idea behind this movepool. A physical 'moth embodies the "absence of risk" in a less predictable movepool while also having less powerful sets overall, due to lack of "great" boosting moves, meaning it slso has the "lack of reward." Special Aurumoth has the "lack of reward" in that it's far more predictable which is the risk; while being more powerful in terms of pure strength for the "lack of risk." It's a tradeoff. This movepool embodies the risk/reward theme behind this pokemon.

    This quote is another one which could be used to justify the riskiness of the special portion of the movepool.

    (Thanks to capefeather for permission. If you feel it is taken out of context I will remove it.)


    Some Potential Sets Within This Movepool (open)
    Note: The first one is weak to Skarmory.

    Aurumoth @ Life orb
    Trait: Illusion
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    -Quiver Dance
    -Psyshock
    -Bug Buzz
    -Earth Power

    (This one can be used to bluff the first set, but with Skarmory coverage.)

    Aurumoth @ Life orb
    Trait: Illusion
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    -Quiver Dance
    -Psyshock
    -Bug Buzz
    -Ice Beam

    Aurumoth @ Life orb
    Trait: No Guard
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    -Quiver Dance
    -Psyshock
    -Bug Buzz
    -Focus Blast

    Aurumoth @ Life orb
    Trait: Weak Armor
    Evs: 172 Atk / 84 Def / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    -Swords Dance
    -Zen Headbutt
    -Attack Order
    -Flame Charge

    Aurumoth @ Leftovers
    Trait: Illusion
    Evs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Adamant nature
    -Swords Dance
    -Substitute
    -Extreme Speed
    -Sucker Punch

    (And my favorite)

    Aurumoth @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Illusion
    EVs: 252 Hp / 4 Def / 252 Speed
    Timid Nature
    -Agility
    -Rest
    -Substitute
    -Final Gambit


    Total: 38 Total VGMs/75 Total Moves

    Any suggestions are, of course, appreciated, as well as if I did anything wrong, as it's my first submission. Also, if you have some free time you might want to check my counting of the moves. I very well may have miscounted. Finally, if there are any edits I could make to make this simpler to read/navigate tell me and I'll work them in. Thanks; <3

    Edit: New set added to account for one's weakness.

    Edit 2: New total VGM count of 38. Pursuit has been removed; ran out of space. Cut and Fly have also been removed. VGM list added.

    Edit 3: Added the fathers for the egg moves. Feel free to proof-read.

    Edit 4: Quote added to Overall Reasoning. (Thanks to capefeather for permission. If you feel it is taken out of context I will remove it.)

    Edit 5: Reclarified a bit of the Overall Reasoning for the Final Submission.

    Edit 6: I had counted repeated moves in my total; added Pluck and brought back Cut and Fly to counteract this. Final Submission has been added to the top.

    Specifically For Lurkers (open)
    I highly suggest at least attempting to make a submission at some point in the future. Maybe not for this particular step; maybe not for this particular CAP, but you should do it at some point, if not to win then for two reasons.
    1. It's fun
    2. To attempt to see and better understand how submissions are made, meaning you can be a more effective voter in the polls, if you even do that. I didn't realize how much effort goes into a submission previously to making my own. It really gives me a new-found respect for the community.
  14. Galladiator

    Galladiator

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,944
    First Draft

    64 Moves
    28 VGMs


    Level (15 moves (open)
    00 Struggle Bug!
    00 Growl
    00 Tackle
    04 Leech Life
    09 Confusion
    15 Absorb
    21 Psybeam
    28 Amnesia*
    36 Signal Beam!*
    44 Mega Drain
    53 Psychic!*
    55 Aura Sphere
    59 Psycho Cut
    64 Destiny Bond*
    70 Final Gambit

    * = VGM
    ! = repeated

    I went with a pattern of 4-5-6-6-7-8-9-9 for the move gaps until level 55 (the presumed evolution level, given it's a pseudo-legendary), at which point it goes to a 4-5-6 for the remaining moves. Flavor wise, it starts out very weak and unable to support itself (Growl, Tackle), forcing it to leech off other Pokemon (Leech Life). Shortly after birth, its psychic powers begin to develop (Confusion), but they're still unreliable, so it must continue to gain its nourishment from other Pokemon (Absorb). Its psychic power reaches a new level (Psybeam), but it forgets how to use it for a brief period of time (Amnesia) before finally awakening its inner power (Signal Beam) and remembering its psychic skill. It still drains other Pokemon's energy (Mega Drain), but relies less on it now, as it has learned to harness its psionic capabilities in order to subdue prey on its own (Psychic). As it evolves, its mastery of spirit powers awakens (Aura Sphere), and it can now physically manifest its psychic energy into a blade of destruction (Psycho Cut). It forms links with other spirits (Destiny Bond), and on occasion will even go as far as to risk its life for them (Final Gambit) because it has awakened itself to the true nature of life.


    TM/HM (37 moves (open)
    TM03 Psyshock*
    TM04 Calm Mind*
    TM06 Toxic*
    TM10 Hidden Power*
    TM12 Taunt*
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM17 Protect*
    TM18 Rain Dance*
    TM19 Telekinesis
    TM20 Safeguard
    TM21 Frustration*
    TM26 Earthquake*
    TM27 Return*
    TM29 Psychic!*
    TM30 Shadow Ball*
    TM32 Double Team
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade*
    TM43 Flame Charge*
    TM44 Rest*
    TM45 Attract
    TM48 Round
    TM49 Echoed Voice
    TM50 Overheat*
    TM51 Ally Switch
    TM52 Focus Blast*
    TM63 Embargo
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM70 Flash
    TM76 Struggle Bug!
    TM77 Psych Up
    TM81 X-Scissor*
    TM85 Dream Eater
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute*
    HM01 Cut
    HM03 Surf*

    * = VGM
    ! = repeated


    Tutor (9 moves (open)
    Bug Bite
    Electroweb
    Icy Wind
    Last Resort
    Magic Coat*
    Signal Beam!*
    Spite
    Trick*
    Zen Headbutt*

    * = VGM
    ! = repeated


    Egg (Bug Group) (6 moves (open)
    Acid Armor*
    Bug Buzz*
    Signal Beam!*
    Tail Glow*
    Quiver Dance*
    Whirlwind*

    * = VGM
    ! = repeated


    Event (1 move (open)
    Psycho Boost*

    Because why the hell not.
  15. RavensNation

    RavensNation

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    106
    I'm pretty satisfied with this, so... Final Submission.

    * = VGM

    Level-up moves: 13 VGMs / 20 total
    Show Hide
    Pre-evo - Harden, String Shot, Tail Glow*
    Heart Scale - Aura Sphere*
    Level 01 - Leer, Struggle Bug (also learned via TM)
    Level 07 - Psywave
    Level 14 - Glare*
    Level 21 - Signal Beam (also taught by Move Tutor)
    Level 28 - Barrier*
    Level 35 - Cross Chop*, Psycho Cut
    Level 42 - Mirror Coat*
    Level 49 - Bug Buzz*, Psychic* (also learned via TM)
    Level 56 - Attack Order*
    Level 63 - Healing Wish*, Wish*
    Level 70 - ExtremeSpeed*
    Level 77 - Cosmic Power*

    Here you have various choices for STAB: There's Attack Order, a reliable physical attack and the admittedly weak, yet usable, Psycho Cut. Remember the base 120 Atk. On the Special side you have your staples in Bug Buzz and Psychic. There's Fighting-type coverage in Aura Sphere and, with No Guard, Cross Chop, as well as priority in ExtremeSpeed.

    Support options include Barrier and Cosmic Power for defensive boosts, Wish and Healing Wish to provide healing support for itself and its party members (albeit at the expense of Aurumoth's life in the case of Healing Wish) and Glare for reliable paralysis (and because speed is such a crucial factor for Aurumoth). Tail Glow so you can rape with Bug Buzz/Psychic/Aura Sphere after nabbing a Weak Armor boost. Mirror Coat is there to suprise enemies that want to prey on Aurumoth's soft SpD.

    Flavor-wise, the learning sequence follows multiples of seven, a number closely intertwined with religion and its themes. Aurumoth's basic moves, Struggle Bug and Leer, evolve into Bug Buzz and Glare, respectively. Psywaves fired from its glowing gem-like stinger turn into Signal Beam, which is flavor-only and doesn't count towards the VGM number because it's comfortably outclassed by Bug Buzz in terms of very good move-ness. Barrier begets Mirror Coat, which eventually turns into Cosmic Power when it learns to tap into its divine capabilities, which also enables it to wish for the health of its teammates, ergo Healing Wish and Wish. String Shot, Harden, and Tail Glow are pretty self-explanatory in my opinion.


    TM/HM moves: 19 VGMs / 39 total
    Show Hide
    TM03 - Psyshock*
    TM06 - Toxic*
    TM10 - Hidden Power*
    TM11 - Sunny Day
    TM15 - Hyper Beam
    TM17 - Protect*
    TM18 - Rain Dance*
    TM19 - Telekinesis
    TM20 - Safeguard
    TM21 - Frustration* (same as Return)
    TM22 - SolarBeam
    TM24 - Thunderbolt*
    TM25 - Thunder*
    TM27 - Return* (same as Frustration)
    TM29 - Psychic* (also learned by level-up)
    TM30 - Shadow Ball*
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM33 - Reflect*
    TM42 - Façade*
    TM44 - Rest*
    TM45 - Attract
    TM48 - Round
    TM49 - Echoed Voice
    TM50 - Overheat*
    TM51 - Ally Switch
    TM52 - Focus Blast*
    TM58 - Sky Drop
    TM59 - Incinerate
    TM61 - Will-o'-Wisp*
    TM68 - Giga Impact
    TM70 - Flash
    TM75 - Swords Dance*
    TM76 - Struggle Bug (also learned by level-up)
    TM81 - X-Scissor (outclassed by Attack Order)
    TM85 - Dream Eater
    TM90 - Substitute*
    HM01 - Cut
    HM02 - Fly
    HM04 - Strength

    Additional STAB in Psyshock and Focus Blast. Aurumoth picks up nifty Electric- and Fire-type coverage in the forms of Thunderbolt, Thunder, and Overheat. Thunderbolt is reliable enough, while Thunder can be used in conjunction with, either, rain or No Guard. Overheat is also reliable and powerful in its own right, but can be boosted by sunlight, though this is almost too risky considering Aurumoth's typing. Sunlight, however, also opens up the possibility of running a set with SolarBeam, which would allow you to get super-effective his on Rock-types. Oh yeah, Shadow Ball's there, too. Gotta keep those pesky ghosts in check.

    For support, there is Toxic and Will-o'-Wisp. Being able to hit your opponent with any of the three best statuses in the game is always nice, right? There's Reflect, but no Light Screen. There's also no Calm Mind. I want to keep Aurumoth's SpD a liability to make it "easier" to check. Swords Dance if you're running Weak Armor over No Guard. Otherwise, Dragon Dance boosts your attack and speed without requiring damage for said speed boost. Substitute.

    TM/HM lists usually don't come in flavors, but Telekinesis is how I imagine it controls its floating wing armor. Safeguard hints at its benevolence, while Round and Echoed Voice refrence the melodious voices of angels. Sky Drop and Fly because angels fly, as does Volcarona, who is somehow relevant to this Pokémon. Cutting moves like, well, Cut and X-Scissor, as well as Psycho Cut and Cross Chop are flavorful because it is able to wield its wings like the Excalibur to cut down its opposition. No, it doesn't learn Sacred Sword. I wish it could. I would've slapped that thing on Aurumoth in a heartbeat.


    Egg moves (Bug / Monster): 4 VGMs / 9 total
    Show Hide
    Ancientpower
    Counter*
    Dragon Dance*
    Focus Energy
    Megahorn*
    Metal Claw
    Pursuit*
    Silver Wind
    Slash

    Dragon Dance and Megahorn are the two biggest moves here and they are illegal with each other to keep the overpowered combination of No Guard Megahorn/Dragon Dance from happening. We decided to go with Bug/Psychic instead of Bug/Dragon, now we live with that decision. A similar strategy can still be acheived, however. Weak Armor Megahorn/Swords Dance. It has some accuracy problems, but it's still pretty fearsome in its own right. 120 Atk. Pursuit has good synergy with Illusion for the ability's ability to force switches (especially when bluffing a dangerous set-up dragon set with Dragon Dance). Counter when you're about to get hit by Scizor's U-turn. It'll leave a nice dent on the incoming Pokémon, provided you survive the hit, which you should considering 110/99 physical bulk. Outside of Hidden Power Rock, AncientPower is the only Rock-type coverage Aurumoth gets, but the former is generally superior, except when 90% doesn't apply to you and you get a free boost to all your stats. Focus Energy when you want to piss your opponent off with high critical hit moves like Psycho Cut, Attack Order, Slash, or (god forbid) Sky Attack.

    Flavor: Ok, ok, so maybe it's not so flavorful to put an angelic being into a category of monsters, but it was the best way for Aurumoth to aquire Dragon Dance without taking up level-up slot (which is admittedly less flavor. Aurumoth isn't Bug/Dragon, dammit). I could have stuck the Pokémon in the Field egg group, but a being of Aurumoth's degree and holiness deserves more than to copulate with the foul beasts of that declension. So I stuck in the Monster egg group instead. 600 base stat total sounds pretty monsterous to me.


    Move Tutor moves: 3 VGMs / 9 total
    Show Hide
    Bug Bite
    Earth Power*
    Iron Defense (same effect as Barrier)
    Magic Coat*
    Signal Beam (also learned by level-up)
    Skill Swap
    Sky Attack
    SuperPower*

    Further physical Fighting-type coverage in SuperPower, which you can use over Cross Chop when not running No Guard, but beware the stat drops, especially with Weak Armor. Earth Power is a godsend (heh heh... I punned) for Aurumoth as it gives it arguably the best way to cover two of its numerous weaknesses, as well as non-ballooned Heatran, the nemesis of Bugs, Psychics, and Bug/Psychics. Sky Attack + Power Herb is a nice little gimmick. Bug Bite because flavor.

    Support/gimmick is where Illusion works best and the Move Tutors provide Aurumoth with plenty of helpful support/gimmick options. Illusion lets you use Magic Coat to more effectively set up Stealth Rock when you don't want to waste a move slot or party slot on your own Stealth Rocker. Skill Swap is a nice little move to use alongside Illusion. Once your cover is blown, you can Skill Swap with your opponent to give him a useless ability and possibly gain something powerful like Sheer Force, Magic Guard, or Prankster. If nothing else, Skill Swap becomes Trick: Abilities Edition. Give your opponent's Scizor the non-ability to look like the Luvdisc in the back of its party and steal his Technician. Make your opponent's Gliscor regret trying to Toxic stall you when he gains the ability to lose health due to a bad case of the stomach flu and you're happily recovering 10% of your chosen factor of 110 base HP each turn.

    Flavor: Honey Move Tutor don't give a shyte about flavor! ...But Move Tutors don't come in honey flavors, so there's actually some flavoring going on here. Angels come from outer space, therefore Sky Attack. You should hurt yourself in confusion if you don't find Bug Bite and Signal Beam tasty on Aurumoth. Earth Power is flavor because angels basically rule over the earth. The seraphic moth uses its magical wing armor to reflect non-attacking moves at the user, so Magic Coat. Along, the same vein, armor, therefore Iron Defense. SuperPower because 600 BST, and Skill Swap because honey badger.
  16. Rediamond

    Rediamond

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2010
    Messages:
    3,168
    *Vgm
    !Repeated

    Level up moves: 13 moves, 5 VGM's
    Show Hide

    0: Confusion
    0: String Shot
    9: Foresight
    18: Future Sight
    27: Ominous Wind
    36: Psych Up
    45: Air Cutter
    54: Ancientpower
    63: Psychic*
    72: Bug Buzz*
    81: Memento*
    90: Quiver Dance*
    99: Aura Sphere*

    I used increments of nine for level up moves, partially on the justification that it is 3^2, and three is a common number in quite a few religions and mythologies. The level up movepool is quite heavy in non-attacking support moves, along with a few STAB options and Aura Sphere. I justify this as Aurumoth appears less likely to be an attacker, and more likely to be a supporter or helper. Dragon Dance and Aura Sphere are here as they couldn't fit on as Egg moves.


    Egg moves: 8 moves, 5 VGMs
    Egg Group: Bug/Indeterminate
    Show Hide

    Megahorn*
    Counter*
    Mirror Coat*
    Bide
    Hydro Pump*
    Teleport
    Close Combat*
    Endure

    I wanted CounterCoat on the Pokemon, and this seemed like the best place to put it. Bide, Endure, and Teleport are flavor. Megahorn, Close Combat, and Hydro Pump generally don't seem natural for this Pokemon, so they were justified as egg flavor rather than level up, as I wanted to include them due to their competitive value.

    Legalities:
    Megahorn+Bide+Close Combat+Counter+Endure (Heracross)
    Counter+Mirror Coat+Endure (Gastrodon)
    Teleport+Close Combat+Endure (Gallade)
    Endure+Hydro Pump (Castform)

    The legalities allows for physical sets to get all of the moves they need, but not Hydro Pump. However, physical sets can still use Aqua Tail, so they aren't particularly restricted.

    Tutor moves: 10 moves, 4 VGM's
    Show Hide

    After You
    Aqua Tail*
    Bug Bite
    Earth Power*
    Helping Hand
    Icy Wind
    Skill Swap
    Sleep Talk*
    Snore
    Zen Headbutt*

    Quite support heavy to continue with the flavor established in level up. More rationale provided in the general description later.


    TM's: 42 moves, 22 VGM's
    Show Hide

    TM03: Psyshock*
    TM04: Calm Mind
    TM06: Toxic*
    TM10: Hidden Power*
    TM11: Sunny Day
    TM13: Ice Beam*
    TM14: Blizzard*
    TM15: Hyper Beam
    TM16: Light Screen*
    TM17: Protect*
    TM18: Rain Dance*
    TM19: Telekinesis
    TM20: Safeguard
    TM21: Frustration*
    TM24: Thunderbolt*
    TM25: Thunder*
    TM26: Earthquake*
    TM27: Return
    TM29: Psychic!
    TM30: Shadow Ball*
    TM32: Double Team
    TM33: Reflect*
    TM42: Facade*
    TM42: Rest*
    TM45: Attract
    TM48: Round
    TM50: Overheat*
    TM51: Ally Switch
    TM52: Focus Blast*
    TM64: Explosion
    TM68: Giga Impact
    TM70: Flash
    TM71: Stone Edge*
    TM75: Swords Dance*
    TM76: Struggle Bug
    TM77: Psych Up!
    TM78: Bulldoze
    TM80: Rock Slide*
    TM81: X-Scissor*
    TM85: Dream Eater
    TM87: Swagger
    TM90: Substitute*

    Event: 1 move, 1 VGM
    Show Hide

    Quiver Dance!
    Aura Sphere!
    Psycho Boost*
    Bug Buzz!


    Total: 74 moves, 38 VGM's

    General comments (open)

    The first thing I decided was that I wanted Quiver Dance, Dragon Dance, and Swords Dance, but not Tail Glow or Nasty Plot. "Stallbreaker" setup sets would have to go physical. In exchange, I wanted it to get a large amount of special coverage to encourage it to go mixed or special, and make it rather unpredictable. This movepool gets almost all relevant special coverage, but does not get Tail Glow or Nasty Plot.

    I also decided early in planning that a Dual Screens, Memento, Wish set would be possible, and put those moves in. As BMB has said, this is the embodiment of risk and could be particularly fun with Illusion.

    To balance out No Guard, the more powerful but less accurate versions of Aura Sphere, Thunderbolt, and Ice Beam were included, to make No Guard represent a distinct boost in power. The only special water move is Hydro Pump, further bolstering the strength of No Guard. On the mixed-physical side of things, Stone Edge and Megahorn are also made more reliable.

    Close Combat was included for the sole purpose of helping to deal with Chansey, as it more or less needs it to get past the blob and remain counterless. I did not give it Extremespeed, to mark a difference between the stallbreaking and Weak Armor abuse of Swords Dance and the standard sweeping of Dragon Dance. Swords Dance+Weak Armor abuse is kept risky, but remains viable given the huge leap in power and the ability to draw from Psycho Boost and Overheat as coverage.

    tl;dr Swords Dance and somewhat limited but certainly workable physical coverage, huge special coverage that allows for No Guard abuse, and a few other moves such as Dual screens combine to make Aurumoth unpredictable and quite potent with all of its abilities.



    EDIT1: Switched Assist with Foresight
    EDIT2: Removed Dragon Dance
  17. Nyktos

    Nyktos Custom Loser Title
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2008
    Messages:
    565
    Final Submission

    * = VGM
    Level-up moves (20 total (open)
    -- Psycho Cut
    -- Leech Life
    -- Safeguard
    -- Confusion
    -- Miracle Eye
    7 Leech Life - repeat
    11 Safeguard - repeat
    18 Bug Bite
    22 Psybeam
    29 Sucker Punch*
    33 Wish*
    40 Silver Wind
    44 Psychic*
    51 Stored Power*
    55 Bug Buzz*
    62 Aura Sphere*
    66 Quiver Dance*
    73 Healing Wish*
    77 Megahorn*

    Comments (open)
    My flavour concept was essentially that Aurumoth is some sort of mystical guardian of the forest or what have you. I like the idea that it normally remains hidden (hence Illusion) and reveals itself to defend the forest and its inhabitants. A number of the level-up moves fit into that concept reasonably well, either by suggesting protecting others (Safeguard, Wish, Healing Wish) or being "mystical" (Silver Wind, Aura Sphere, basically all the Psychic attacks) or just plain powerful as befitting the forest's guardian (Megahorn). Some of the Bug moves are kind of questionable but it felt odd to not give it any weaker STAB moves. Stored Power is in the same boat and would likely have been an egg move had it been available in the egg groups I chose.

    Also, yeah, this is an insane number of level-up moves, because we're pesudo-legendary after all. Three of them are repeated elsewhere in the movepool, to help avoid going over the limit.

    TM/HM moves (43 total (open)
    TM03 Psyshock*
    TM04 Calm Mind* - outclassed by Quiver Dance
    TM06 Toxic*
    TM10 Hidden Power*
    TM13 Ice Beam*
    TM14 Blizzard*
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM16 Light Screen*
    TM17 Protect*
    TM18 Rain Dance*
    TM19 Telekinesis
    TM20 Safeguard - repeat
    TM21 Frustration*
    TM24 Thunderbolt*
    TM25 Thunder*
    TM26 Earthquake*
    TM27 Return* - equivalent to Frustration
    TM29 Psychic* - repeat
    TM30 Shadow Ball*
    TM32 Double Team
    TM33 Reflect*
    TM42 Facade*
    TM44 Rest*
    TM45 Attract
    TM48 Round
    TM49 Echoed Voice
    TM51 Ally Switch
    TM52 Focus Blast*
    TM61 Will-O-Wisp*
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM70 Flash
    TM73 Thunder Wave*
    TM75 Swords Dance*
    TM76 Struggle Bug
    TM77 Psych Up
    TM81 X-Scissor*
    TM85 Dream Eater
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute*
    HM01 Cut
    HM02 Fly

    Tutor moves (8 total (open)
    Bug Bite - repeat
    Magic Coat*
    Ominous Wind
    Skill Swap
    Sleep Talk*
    Snore
    Trick*
    Zen Headbutt*

    Egg moves (9 total (open)
    Close Combat*
    Future Sight
    Gust
    Heal Pulse
    Pursuit*
    Rage Powder
    Razor Wind
    Teleport
    Tail Glow*

    Comments (open)
    This was mostly a place for flavour moves as most of the VGMs I wanted to include were machines or tutors or fit into the level-up movepool well enough. Close Combat is the major exception, but in the end I decided it was necessary despite being weird flavour-wise.

    Some of these moves continue the same sort of flavour as the level-up movepool, with Future Sight being suitably "mystical", Heal Pulse continuing the "protector" theme, and Tail Glow and Horn Drill the godly power. Rage Powder also basically allows it to protect others, despite the flavour of the move on the surface not really being "angelic". I also decided that with the lack of wing-based moves in the level-up pool, I'd throw a few in here, hence Gust and Razor Wind.

    Total: 74 moves / 38 VGMs

    Full list of VGMs (open)
    Attacking
    Aura Sphere
    Blizzard
    Bug Buzz
    Close Combat
    Earthquake
    Facade
    Focus Blast
    Hidden Power
    Ice Beam
    Megahorn
    Psychic
    Psyshock
    Pursuit
    Return / Frustration
    Shadow Ball
    Stored Power
    Sucker Punch
    Thunder
    Thunderbolt
    X-Scissor
    Zen Headbutt

    Non-Attacking
    Healing Wish
    Light Screen
    Protect
    Quiver Dance / Calm Mind
    Rain Dance
    Reflect
    Rest
    Sleep Talk
    Substitute
    Swords Dance
    Tail Glow
    Thunder Wave
    Toxic
    Trick
    Will-O-Wisp
    Wish
    Magic Coat

    Legal egg move combinations (open)
    Close Combat + Pursuit (Heracross)
    Close Combat + Future Sight + Heal Pulse + Teleport (Gallade)
    Future Sight + Pursuit (Duskull family)
    Gust + Pursuit (Vespiquen)
    Gust + Rage Powder (Butterfree, Volcarona)
    Pursuit + Razor Wind (Scyther family)
    Tail Glow (Volbeat)


    Comments, and perhaps a 75th move, to come.
  18. capefeather

    capefeather YOU CAN'T STOP ROB
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
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    I finally finished the explanations! I'm still open to possible changes before I mark it final, but the submission as it stands is probably going to be close to the final, if not the final itself.
  19. CiteAndPrune

    CiteAndPrune

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    203
    Made some small changes to my movepoll, namely taking out Sleep Talk, Fly, Snore and Sonicboom, and adding Mirror Coat (Event), Fire Spin (Egg), Icy Wind (Tutor), Ominous Wind (Egg), Role Play (Tutor) and Solarbeam (TM). I'm at the 38/75 limit so I'm marking the movepoll as my Final Submission by now.

    Since I'm posting I'll share some comments with other submitters, for what it's worth.

    NyttyN
    Show Hide
    I'm pretty sure Horn Drill and Sheer Cold are disallowed along with all moves < 70 Accuracy. No Guard + OHKO moves would be a pretty brutal combo (if they weren't specifically unaffected by accuracy modifiers, for the same reason you can't combo Hone Claws + OHKO move over time).

    Also I wonder why you put in Stone Edge as an Egg Move but not as a TM. The TM list already looks short, barren even, without not just Substitute, but no Protect, no Rain Dance/Sunny Day...

    However, Pay Day is an awesome flavor idea. Props to you for picking it up.


    Mari
    Show Hide
    Some of the Level Up moves surprise me, particularly Pin Missile, but otherwise this submission looks pretty solid. Good luck to you.


    Korski
    Show Hide
    It's clear that you've put a lot of thought into getting the right flavor for the Level Up moves. I'm sure it will attract flavor fans but the price it comes with - moving Bug Buzz and Megahorn into the Egg moves list - is unfortunate. At least those two can be easily accessed with important coverage (Bug Buzz and Hydro Pump from Masquerain, Megahorn and Close Combat from Heracross), only troubling Aurumoth that try to go mixed. At least there's always Psyshock to get around special walls.

    Other than that, the movepoll definitely favours the special side, as you intended. Those looking for a specially-focused movepoll should check out yours, they won't be disappointed.


    jas61292
    Show Hide
    It looks all around great, possibly my favourite submission, considering how much you achieved while avoiding obviously good moves like DD, QD, Aura Sphere/Focus Blast, and even Extremespeed. Plus your competitive reasoning is solid and thought-through; there's really nothing to nitpick at. Good luck in the poll stage jas.


    Deck Knight
    Show Hide
    The Level Up moves list looks overloaded, yet it has too few Starting moves to hide the implied Heart Scale moves entirely. It stands out, whereas the other lists look natural and very solid.

    Choosing Nasty Plot over Tail Glow to better take advantage of Illusion is an interesting move, and in general you stress the advantages of each of the three abilities nicely. It leaves a bit to be desired on the support side of things though. Also, I sympathize with you regarding the loss of Supersonic as that was really fun. Still, good to see an entry with Psycho Shift in Aurumoth's arsenal. Good luck in the poll stage Deck.


    capefeather
    Show Hide
    I don't know what to think of this submission. On the one hand, you start by defining precedent and following strict rules considering which moves should be introduced, and which ones left out, going so far as admonishing other submitters for adding their Fire and Flying moves and what-have-you. Then you commit Sky Attack aka GOD BIRD of all things. To add a move just because of the 'God therefore Seraphin flavor' reasoning when Aurumoth looks nothing like a bird seems... inconsistent, at least.

    And then you suggest an Alternate Forme. Well, I sure didn't see that one coming.

    Capefeather, I'm afraid that you've gone searching for risk in the wrong place, hence the result shown here. This is almost as bad as Rising_Dusk trying to sneak in Shell Smash on Mollux as an unreleased DW move. It's not worth pushing for this - if you seriously hope to get slated, then just let Aurumoth have that Quiver Dance or not have it, but don't take half-measures and complicate otherwise simple things. There's enough diversity and risk to explore within the Pokemon games and metagame that we don't need to go out on a limb inventing brand new difficulties to confuse the overall picture more.


    In fact... BMB, can you make a judgment call on cape's proposal in particular (as soon as you're back)? If necessary he'll have time to revise the movepoll before the deadline, as well as anyone else who thought along similar lines.

    unwim
    Show Hide
    Looks alright at a glance, although commentary would help see the overall direction in this moveset. Good luck with further work on it.


    Verminator
    Show Hide
    21 moves for a Level Up list is really long, and it looks cramped. Meanwhile your Egg Moves list looks rather short, so consider if some moves could be moved from Level Up to Egg.

    Also, in updates you wrote that Thunderbolt was removed to have room for Defend Order, but in the version I read Thunderbolt is still listed as a TM move.


    zyrefredric
    Show Hide
    Given your goal to manage without Egg Moves, this submission looks quite solid overall. Of course the variety of moves can't compare to others, but you do well with what little you have available. Remember though that the official limits of moves and VGMs are higher though, so don't be afraid of adding more VGMs than your own limit dictates if you find you really want to have them.


    jagged angel
    Show Hide
    Unfinished currently, but at a glance you're taking Aurumoth in a completely different direction from others. At least it guarantees your entry will stand out from among the crowd. Good luck and don't miss the deadline.


    DarkBlazeR
    Show Hide
    Looks fairly solid overall, though the flavor of some moves is hard to justify, particularly Power Gem (especially when Ancientpower exists, too). Guard Swap alone (missing Power Swap) also seems random, and seeing Overheat as an Egg Move but unavailable as a TM is strange. Other than that, good job, and I'm awaiting the final comments.


    ThePhalanx
    Show Hide
    Rock Tomb in its TM list when Stone Edge and Rock Slide are both missing really sticks out.

    As for Power Gem, when you already have Ancientpower that one seems unnecessary, so if you wanted to remove something this would be my first choice, and you don't have to worry about whether it's a VGM or not. Other than that, pretty good, good luck.


    srk1214
    Show Hide
    Looks really solid to me, especially when you eschew egg moves. The variety of offensive options can't compare with others but you get really far with how conservative you manage this movepoll. Maybe you should still think about what TMs could slip in until you're at the VGMs limit though, each of them is an argument in your favor, one way or another. Still, the decision is only yours, good luck at the poll stage srk1214.


    Mdevil
    Show Hide
    Definitely stands out as unique, although it's counter-intuitive to give Aurumoth Quiver Dance and then rob it of special coverage, then give it excellent physical offense but keep Dragon Dance away. It seems likely to me that fans of physical sets / Quiver Dance sweepers will skip over your entry for disappointing them on both counts, and turn to others.

    But I could be wrong. Let's wait till the poll is up and see.

    Though on the other hand, the Type-Move and Move-Move requirements are only 'suggestions' for this CAP, so you really don't have to stick to them to the point they dictate half your movepoll. You still have time to adjust based on that and improve this submission till you're satisfied with it. Give it a try at least, I'm sure you'll learn from it.


    Galladiator
    Show Hide
    Aura Sphere in Level Up is a VGM, but not marked as such. I'm concerned about Absorb and Mega Drain as well - while they're generally too weak to matter, BMB explictly stated that all recovery and draining moves were disallowed (otherwise I'd have given Pain Split a chance for sure).

    Furthermore, your list is really short on offensive options, especially coverage moves. Even with Quiver Dance in its movepoll, I doubt Aurumoth will sweep teams on its STABs alone (and potentially Hidden Power). You still have empty slots so think about what to add and where, there's probably quite a few TMs you could get away with adding to this movepoll.


    RavensNation
    Show Hide
    I have to agree that flavor-wise, Sacred Sword would've been an awesome match, shame it's a legendary-exclusive move.

    Sky Drop seems a tad too much for Aurumoth when it's not even Flying, but Bug/Psychic, and as such fights through indirect means (Bug Buzz, Psychic, Thunder/bolt, Overheat etc.), Megahorn notwithstanding. For the same reason Sky Attack sticks out. However, other than that, not bad. Good luck at the poll stage.


    Rediamond
    Show Hide
    Assist sticks out terribly in the Level Up movepoll, since Aurumoth is anything but a fluffy kitten. I'm not sure if going with support flavor over (pseudo-)legendary force of destruction flavor was the right choice, but for better or worse, you pull it off with this list. Nothing else catches attention but it seems pretty solid overall. Good job, and good luck at the poll stage.


    Nyktos
    Show Hide
    The Level Up list is fairly large, but not too large considering the move duplicates you inserted.

    On the TM List, TM 43 is no longer Secret Power, but as of Gen V, Flame Charge. Same with TM 58 - it's no longer Endure, but Sky Drop.

    Horn Drill among the Egg Moves was disallowed along with all other moves with < 70 Accuracy.

    Despite those problems, the movepoll itself looks not bad at all. Just work on it a bit more and don't miss the deadline.



    That should be everyone. I might not get to post again before the deadline arrives so I'm using this opportunity for all it's worth.
  20. capefeather

    capefeather YOU CAN'T STOP ROB
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
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    You're right, the only Pokémon with non-STAB Sky Attack seems to be Mew. I'm not sure how that got past me. Thanks for that. Still, it seems like you missed the entire point of my methodology because I feel it allows me to make more sensible off-the-wall decisions. It still makes some amount of sense because of the design, not just that Aurumoth has somewhat dangerous-looking wings and generally looks like it could pull Sky Attack off (other people were even talking about it on IRC long before this thread), but also that angels are typically depicted with bird wings, anyway. It's not in the same league as giving a non-Electric type Overheat without the other common Fire-type moves, because, at the very least, Psychic-types have it, two Pokémon with Weak Armour have it, and Gliscor (Bug egg group) has it. Still, I have removed it, so that is that.

    You also seem to have missed the entire point behind my "Special" section. It's honestly baffling that it's being compared to an entirely flavour-based decision, considering all the competitive reasoning I have put into it. Quiver Dance Aurumoth with stuff like Thunderbolt and Focus Blast has maybe a handful of pairs of Pokémon that could check it. Without that stuff, it's still good (hopefully), but bringing checks for it is a lot more reasonable. I assure you I gave this a lot of thought before submitting it, because until very recently I wasn't sure at all as to whether or not Aurumoth should even have Quiver Dance.

    A note, though: With 156 Spe Modest, +1 Aurumoth ties with Jolteon, which means a few other Choice Scarf users might be able to get in on the action. At a glance, it doesn't seem like much changes, but I suppose another investigation is in order. So yeah, I'll continue to look into the consequences of full-power Quiver Dance.
  21. Nyktos

    Nyktos Custom Loser Title
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Oops. Thanks for pointing out my error with Endure and Secret Power, CiteAndPrune. I guess that leaves me with a couple more slots to screw around with if I feel like it.

    As for OHKO moves I assumed they were allowed since they're banned in competitive play but I somehow didn't even think of the significance of having one with No Guard. Yeah, I guess I'll remove that too.
  22. RavensNation

    RavensNation

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    106
    Good to see that your critique of my movepool is merely flavor-based rather than competitive. Certainly makes me feel more confident about the choices I made for it.

    Anyways, regarding you flavor comments about Sky Drop and Sky Attack: Sometimes Pokémon have what I like to call "Hidden Typing". Kind of like how Gyarados and Charizard have a "Hidden" Dragon typing and are able to learn numerous Dragon-type moves or Mollux, with its "Hidden" Electric-typing, is able to learn many vital Electric-type moves. I was of capefeather's thinking when I decided to include Sky Drop and Sky Attack in the movepool. With its theme being based on angels, I imagined Aurumoth to have a "Hidden" Flying typing (luckily without inheriting the crippling weaknesses) and therefore, at least in my imagination, the moves make flavor sense.

    Regarding the comment of Bug/Psychic attacking through indirect means: In my imagination, that's implying that Aurumoth's main offensive stat is his SpA attack, which is clearly not the case, as we decided that Aurumoth should be able to use both more or less equally. Also, somewhere in my description I stated that I imagine Aurumoth using its Psychic powers to manipulate its wing armor to utilize physical moves like the cutting moves, Sky Drop, etc. etc.

    The critique is greatly appreciated, in any case. I hope my response helped to kind of explain my flavor decisions a little more...
  23. Mdevil

    Mdevil

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    Thanks for the feedback, CiteAndPrune. I had the same concern regarding the limits set on the special and physical moves but I decided that it feels right (to me, anyway) to have arumoth have this sort of movepool. I wouldn't be surpriserd if people didn't agree as it does limit some important competitive aspects.

    In terms of type/move-move combos, I adhered to those primarily because I wouldn't have any idea how to begin to fill in the move slots which those moves currently inhabit. Also it make the pool a bit more valid which I'm sure appeals to some people. I will definently not be doing that (at least not as strictly) in the future, when I will hopefully be a bit more experienced.
  24. Korski

    Korski Distilled, 80 proof
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributor
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    Huh we get some honest feedback and the thread comes back to life; well done, CiteAndPrune. Thanks for the positive feedback on my Level-Up pool and for appearing to actually have read the entire submission. One thing I'd like to address from your critique is not actually the Bug Buzz/Megahorn Egg thing, which is definitely an opinion you're free to have, but actually the part about my movepool favoring the Special side as much as you are implying. Apart from a few movepools, like jas61292's and srk1214's, most of the Submissions have similar Physical and Special coverage to my pool (with a few stray Aqua Tails and Extremespeeds); I am just the only one, as far as I can tell, to mention that I made mine that way on purpose. I don't want anyone to get the impression that I have abandoned the notion of Physical Moth, so to this end, I have expanded my now Final Submission to include a general response to those who might fear a lack of Physical or Mixed Attacking potential, and I hope it makes enough sense:
    I may be back with more critique, since this thread's going to be open for like 3 more days, but for the moment I noticed this in your Event Moves section, CiteAndPrune (or CAP for short? wut!?):
    EDIT: My critique may or may not include a mild disappointment at the currently negative tone of capefeather's submission.
  25. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight Well-shuffled and flush
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    I actually took my level-up structure directly from Salamence. The only real difference is I added an additional move it its Heart Scale moves, since Hex isn't competitive but I thought it fit very well. I have dropped Confusion and put Double Team in its place and then made Double Team and Pin Missile Level 5 and 10 moves, respectively. Thus it's got Salamence's learning levels but Dragonite's number of moves. This should fix that bit of flavor. One can argue that Dragonite doesn't really have a "natural looking" movepool, but then, this isn't really a run of the mill mon either, is it?

    As far as the selections, I really thought because of Illusion that Double Team should be a very early move, and I like how the initial list is very similar to the weakbugs with Tackle and String Shot and a mid-teen learned Bug Bite. From there it really grows and expands outward into functional and purposeful moves. I also added a conclusion section.
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