CAP 5 CAP 5 - Part 4 (Style Bias Poll 2)

What should the Offensive/Defensive Balance be?


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tennisace

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#1
Break the Mold-Click here to see the full post.

latinoheat said:
Name: Break the Mold

Description:
An OU viable pokemon that goes completely against the stereotypes of its typing.
Type: Rock

K. Long story short the process guide wasn't updated with the result of this thread. So, we're narrowing the ODB a bit here in accordance with the new thread, since its much faster. For the PSB we'll use the new process completely. Basically we only end up with an extra poll. All calculations of the ODB are made using this applet. Before voting, I recommend plugging in your favorite spread into the applet to figure out what you want first. You only have two options on this poll. Go!
 

eric the espeon

maybe I just misunderstood
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#3
Note: this was edited into this post as I think it will be noticed more here.

Lets think about rock's Stereotype. Is it a wall? Lets look at the most common Rocks in the OU metagame:

Tyranitar the most common rock by far is a sweeper, a bulky one but unarguably a sweeper.
Aerodactyl, the seccond most popular Rock, Wall? Not at all.
3rd? Rhyperior, its another Bulky Sweeper. NOT a "Wall"
Then we have Kabutops, seriously not a wall or tank.
Then 5th most used Rock, sitting at 79th on the usage stats WE HIT A WALL! Shuckle. Yea this is a wall.

The Stereotype of Rock is not a wall people.

Its a very Physically orientated Pokemon of any sort, Fast Sweeper (Aero), Slow and Bulky Sweeper (TTar, Rhyperior), Tank (Regirock) and full wall (Shuckle).

So I vote for the second option, because it would be nice to keep the SpA and Spe Stats reasonable (Look, stuff like 120/145 and 140/127 is just dumb.), and maybe give it half decent SpD.
 

eric the espeon

maybe I just misunderstood
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#9
Since the previous poll indicated a clear preference for Offense, only the Offensive ODB ranges are included in this poll.
K, I checked with tennis on the server, and forgot to edit my post.


Anyway lets think about rock's Stereotype. Is it a wall?Lets look at common Rocks in OU:
Tyranitar the most common rock by far is a sweeper, a bulky one but unarguably a sweeper.
Aerodactyl, the seccond most popular Rock, Wall? Not at all.
3rd? Rhyperior, its another Bulky Sweeper. NOT a "Wall"
Then we have Kabutops, seriously not a wall or tank.
Then 5th most used Rock, sitting at 79th on the usage stats WE HIT A WALL! Shuckle. Yea this is a wall.

The Stereotype of Rock is not a wall people.

Its a very Physically orientated Pokemon of any sort, Fast Sweeper (Aero), Slow and Bulky Sweeper (TTar, Rhyperior), Tank (Regirock) and full wall (Shuckle).

Edit: putting the explanation of rock's stereotype in my first post, more people will read it there probably...
 

X-Act

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#10
Hmm, I get the chance of trying for a moderately offensive spread again. Might be submitting a spread after all if ODB 0 to 20 wins...
 

eric the espeon

maybe I just misunderstood
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#12
offensive. Must be.
Why? Please read my post, and have a think.
Rocks are NOT often walls. We don't HAVE to make this stupidly offensive.

Pick your choice based on what would be more interesting/fun/good for the meta not a misinterpretation about Rock's Stereotype please.

This is not directed mainly at bumfacepik, its to everyone.
 

tennisace

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#14
Why? Please read my post, and have a think.
Rocks are NOT often walls. We don't HAVE to make this stupidly offensive.

Pick your choice based on what would be more interesting/fun/good for the meta not a misinterpretation about Rock's Stereotype please.

This is not directed mainly at bumfacepik, its to everyone.
Lets look at this statwise, and not at it from the "role" perspective. Yes, TTar is a sweeper, but its more of a tank, since its so damn bulky. Rhyperior is a TANK. Shuckle is a WALL. Regirock is a WALL. So, most rocks have high Attack and Defense in comparison to their other stats. Kabutops has an oft-overlooked 105 base defense. Most rocks have low speed in comparison to their other stats. There are always outliers in any set of data, so taking a small portion of all rocks and saying that they're all sweepers is fallacious thinking. For a "mold" you need to look at the AVERAGE stats.
 

eric the espeon

maybe I just misunderstood
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#15
What matters is not all rocks, but those that are seen in OU.

Tar may be tankish in stats, but is used ALMOST ENTIRELY as a sweeper that can take a hit.

Aero is no. 2, and is 100% Sweeper

Rhy is tankish in stats, but with its craptacular defensive type its used as a Bulky Sweeper.

Shuckle is below Kabutops (A Sweeper), and yea the only even occasionally seen Rock that's truly a wall.

Then Rampardos (Tank? I don't think so.) and finally Regirock, which is a probably a wall,l but it has oddly high offence for one. Base 100 Atk and STAB Stone Edge that can be boosted by Curse is nothing to laugh at.

Edit: oh and votes for Mixed are not wasted, less than 1/3 of the people who voted on the previous poll have voted. It has a decent chance and the gap is closing fast.
 

X-Act

np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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#16
So, most rocks have high Attack and Defense in comparison to their other stats ... Most rocks have low speed in comparison to their other stats.
Exactly. So we make a Rock type with bad Atk, bad Def and good Speed.

Rock types have also average HP, SpA and SpD. So why not give our Pokemon good HP, SpA and SpD as well? It'd be balanced that way, not offensive.

Just saying that making a Pokemon with bad Atk, bad Def, good SpA and good Speed can also be balanced by giving it good HP and SpD. It doesn't need to have average or bad HP and/or SpD.
 

Mekkah

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#17
As far as I'm concerned Rocks have average to bad HP, good Atk/Def, moderately bad SpD, and the other two at quite a horrid level. Reversing that exactly is what I am aiming for here.
 

tennisace

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#18
What matters is not all rocks, but those that are seen in OU.

Tar may be tankish in stats, but is used ALMOST ENTIRELY as a sweeper that can take a hit.

Aero is no. 2, and is 100% Sweeper

Rhy is tankish in stats, but with its craptacular defensive type its used as a Bulky Sweeper.

Shuckle is below Kabutops (A Sweeper), and yea the only even occasionally seen Rock that's truly a wall.

Then Rampardos (Tank? I don't think so.) and finally Regirock, which is a probably a wall,l but it has oddly high offence for one. Base 100 Atk and STAB Stone Edge that can be boosted by Curse is nothing to laugh at.

Edit: oh and votes for Mixed are not wasted, less than 1/3 of the people who voted on the previous poll have voted. It has a decent chance and the gap is closing fast.
You can't say you're taking the average of a VERY small subset of data. Also, Aero is UU. Shuckle is UU. So if you want to use OU, you have TTar. If you want to even extend it to BL, you only have Rampardos, Regirock, and Rhyperior. Thats high attack, low speed across the board, and decent defense. If you wish to include Aero/Shuckle, you need to include all of UU Rocks. I can say that between Poliwrath, Gyarados, Azumarill, Huntail, Quilfish, Relicanth, Swampert, Bibarel, and Sharpedo that all waters are Physical with decent speed in proportion to their stats. Thats obviously not true.
 
#20
I would like it to have great Sp attack, good speed, and pretty good Sp Def and Hp. The rest should be pretty low. Because I want it to survive a hit or two, and in SS it could be pretty bulky. And I would love to give this Weather ball because it becomes the best Rock Sp Attack in the game during SS, and its a pretty nice move in any situation becuse it works pretty well with any weather.

Maybe I am abit oftopic talking about moves and so, but I've noticed that everybody thinks/seem to think that Power Stone is its only option as a Sp Attacking move.
 
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