CAP 5 Pre-Evo - Part 3 - Abilities Discussion

[DetroitLolcat]

What? Two threads at once? Yep, as we kick off the Art Submissions, we'll also start the Abilities Discussion!

This Abilities Discussion is different than a main CAP's Abilities Discussion. instead of dealing with Primary Abilities, Secondary Abilities, and Tertiary Abilities, there will just be one discussion for all of Malaconda's Pre-evolution's abilities! Since Malaconda has two abilities, Harvest and Infiltrator, Malaconda's pre-evolution will most likely also have two abilities. Although some Pokemon with two abilities evolve from Pokemon with only one, this is a rare case. Particularly strong cases for only one ability will definitely be considered, but keep in mind it is likely this Pokemon will have a pair of abilities.

Remember the first rule of CAP Pre-evolutions? That's right, the first rule is that this is a flavor-based project! Just back your preferred abilities with solid flavor reasoning, and explain why your ability would make sense on Malaconda's pre-evolution. Competitive reasoning is neither necessary nor sufficient when it comes of making the slate.

Remember, there is now a Ability Banlist! Although I highly doubt the banned abilities will surface in discussion, just know that throwing obviously overpowered abilities such as Moody or Imposter can subject your post to moderation.

This discussion will be up for at least 24 hours. After that, I will devise a slate based on my perception of community consensus. That slate will move on to the Abilities Poll, of course.

For reference, here is Malaconda's Final Product.

Remember, this is a flavor project so don't even worry about this Pokemon's competitive viability. We must further glorify Malaconda's name by creating a son worthy of the Great Snake.

Have fun everybody, and let's get some cool abilities!

 

[jas61292]

Ok, so, I'll just start this off by saying that I don't think we should be changing the abilities we have at all. The only other family with Harvest keeps it in both stages. Similar Pokemon, such as Cacturne and Shiftry have the exact same abilities as their prevos, and just in general changing abilities on evolution is not that common compared to the cases where the abilities stay the same. Neither ability implies anything that seems out of place on a prevo, so I don't really see any reason to change.

 

[Objection]

To help support jas' case, I also looked up the Pokemon that get Infiltrator and, apart from Ninjask (which is a special case for other reasons already), all fully evolved Pokemon that had Infiltrator also had Infiltrator on any prevos. So yeah, I'm gonna be supporting Harvest / Infiltrator.

 

[DHR-107]

Ok, so, I'll just start this off by saying that I don't think we should be changing the abilities we have at all. The only other family with Harvest keeps it in both stages. Similar Pokemon, such as Cacturne and Shiftry have the exact same abilities as their prevos, and just in general changing abilities on evolution is not that common compared to the cases where the abilities stay the same. Neither ability implies anything that seems out of place on a prevo, so I don't really see any reason to change.

Pretty much this... I was looking at other stuff last night, trying to think of something that might fit it better than what we have. I was looking mostly at other Serpentine Pokemon such as Snivy, Milotic, Dratini, Ekans, Seviper etc, I then looked at the other Harvest mons (Tropius and Exeggcute) and more of the Infiltrator Pokemon too (Hoppip, Ninjask, Cottonee).

The single ability that might work over either of the abilities is Shed Skin. But even then I don't think it is a good shout when we have 2 fantastic abilities already. Harvest continues through the single evo line it is present, as does Infiltrator in the Zubat/Hoppip/Cottonee lines...

 

[Base Speed]

Maybe it's just me, but I've always viewed Infiltrator as a somewhat sinister ability and would change it if we're aiming for a cutemon. It's not out of place, I just think we can find something better suited. With that in mind, I'd like to put forward Harvest/Cute Charm. I think Cute Charm plays in with the whole deception and temptation theme while seeming less mature (for lack of a better word) than Infiltrator.

Also, did we not just argue against following precedence on the typing discussion? I'm wary of being different for the sake of it, but I think there's room for change here.

Then again, Harvest/Infiltrator would be perfectly fine too.

 

[Eagle4]

As with the others, I believe that we should be keeping Harvest. However, I do believe that changing Infiltrator would be our best option. As Base Speed stole what I was gonna say said, Infiltrator is more sinister than what a prevo should be (from a biased viewpoint). However, you still have to remember that the typing of our prevo is Dark/Grass. Rather than an evil characteristic to represent the darkness of it, how about a cheeky, trickster-esque characteristic instead, which I feel would suit our prevo well. Therefore, I propose Harvest/Prankster.

Thoughts on the two other abilities mentioned

Shed Skin: This would raise questions as to why Malaconda doesn't keep this ability, and so the transition between Shed Skin and Infiltrator comes off as a little weird.

Cute Charm: This is a decent suggestion, and contrasts Malaconda's evilness well, although this seems a rather safe and generic option; "oh it's a prevo and usually prevos are cute. Therefore give it Cute Charm". I certainly support this option over Infiltrator.

 

[Objection]

Eh, I think it's hard to see Infiltrator as being inherently sinister when these mons get it:

 

[The Steam Punk]

Well, since a pre-evo is usually inferior to its evolved form, and we still want flavor in the mix, I think mini-Malaconda should have an inferior ability to Harvest, yet still sun-related. Therefore, I think Leaf Guard makes a lot of sense. Not too competitive, yet still enough flavor in there.

P.S. Even though I see the flavor in Prankster, it seems really competitive to me. Same with Harvest.

 

[Nyktos]

Keeping Infiltrator is fine, but Harvest worries me in that it only makes sense if the art has fruit growing from it, and we won't know what the art is going to look like when we make our decision. I'd like to propose Pickup for primary ability. It has a long precedent of appearing on prevos but being lost on evolution, and its in-battle effects are similar to Harvest. I guess some people might find it weird on something without limbs, but most of the things that get it don't have opposable thumbs anyway so I don't think it's that bad. Plus, we have had multiple art submissions with limbs already...

 

[mcFlareon]

Infiltrator is fine, it's not exclusively sinister as seen in Hoppip/Cottonee but it also fits snake type pokemon like Seviper. Plus I imagine a smaller snake can infiltrate easier than an evolved Malaconda.

I also think Harvest should be Malaconda only so it makes Malaconda that more special and something you want to aim the preevo to evolve to. Either Leaf Guard or Shed Skin works for me.

For the sake of adding to the suggestions, how about Effect Spore. I assume the main element of the design would be more of the apple flower than the fruit. It would lure prey with the flower instead and they will get a status effect in return. At the very least this ability goes well with the fact it can learn Stun Spore and Poisonpowder as egg moves.

 

[DetroitLolcat]

Well, it's been a little over 24 hours but it's pretty clear there hasn't been much discussion, especially because the site has had some problems staying up today.

I'm going to extend the discussion deadline to Friday at 8:00 PM CST assuming the site has no problems with upkeep between now and then. After that, we will move on to the Abilities Poll.

 

[DHR-107]

I'm not overly bothered by the whole "Harvest mon must have a fruit" thing... Exeggcute IS the fruit that is supposedly being harvested I guess... It doesn't have the same design cues that Tropius (Banana like growth) or Exeguttor (The heads themselves). I don't really see that as a reason to downright block the existence of Harvest being on Miniconda.

Effect Spore on the other hand I do have issues with. All the Pokemon that gain it are Mushroomoid except Vileplume, who is based on a plant that gives off nasty smelling odours. I can't really see Miniconda using a strategy in the wild that would equate to having spores or giving off a pungent smell.

Leaf Guard is a good shout too, although, I don't think it is leafy enough to pull of this design.

 

[Base Speed]

To second DHR's concerns, I'm not fond of Effect Spore either. Malaconda has nothing on its design that implies it'll have spores and I doubt Miniconda (yeah, let's make that catch on as a working title) will either.

Most other abilities that've been suggested are fine in my eyes though, and work in one way or another.

 

[DeathCapsule]

I think we should keep the two... or maybe switch Infiltrator with Leaf Guard or Chlorophyll

 

[wynaut bidoof]

Haven't been on CAP before but I'm pretty good with Flavor so ,I think that Infiltrator would work well with the snake theme and even though you're adorable doesn't mean you can't infiltrate. Not to keen though on Harvest because what if it doesn't have a fruit though. No comment on Shed Skin .

 

[Objection]

There is one ability I could imagine working over Harvest: Gluttony. It would be growing the fruit to tempt you with but it keeps on getting tempted itself. Plus, it keeps the berry-related abilities theme going.

 

[DetroitLolcat]

Well, we all know what's happened over the past few days. The site has had some major upkeep issues and has been largely inaccessible since June 1st. However, we've all had a long time to mull over abilities and this thread has pretty much run its course. Since there may be a couple more opinions to be stated, it's not fair to just close it now with little warning. Consider this that warning.

I will close this thread at 3 PM EST/2 PM CST today, June 3rd. If the site has upkeep issues between now and then, the thread will close as soon as the site reopens.

If you have any ideas or anything you would like to support, consider this your last call! We really need to get moving with the project, so let's have a great last few hours of ability discussion.

 

[Unitas]

I would really like to keep Shed Skin over Harvest for this prevo. The flavor fits in two ways, 1) the obvious snake reference and 2) the "shedding" of innocence or naïveté into the more morally corrupt pokemon that is Malaconda. I would like to see Infiltrator stay as the DW ability as I feel it still adds lots of flavor

 

[blitzlefan]

Personally, I prefer Shed Skin / Harvest as well, seeing as they are both related to the general theme of snakes, and the current ideas for the pre-evo sprite don't seem as sinister as Malaconda does.

 

[DetroitLolcat]

Well, everybody, it's been a pretty long journey to the end of this discussion. As we all know, the site has been down for much of the past few days and we've had limited time to form a consensus about abilities. However, the sum total of time this site has been up for has been well over 48 hours, and it really is time to move on. Thank you to everyone who has participated in this discussion whether in the forum, on IRC, or anywhere!

I've selected a rather large slate of abilities to advance to the next stage, as each idea presented in this thread is distinct and often some people prefer Harvest to stay while others prefer Infiltrator to stay. For some popular secondary abilities, I slated them with both Harvest and Infiltrator as the primary. Secondary ability suggestions that were suggested with a specific primary ability in mind were only included with that specific primary ability. I made this slate large because there definitely was a diverse range of opinions, so hopefully everyone has something they can support in the Ability Poll.

Without further ado, here are the eight choices for ability combinations in no particular order.

Pickup/Infiltrator

Leaf Guard/Infiltrator

Harvest/Leaf Guard

Harvest/Shed Skin

Shed Skin/Infiltrator

Harvest/Infiltrator

Harvest/Cute Charm

Harvest/Prankster

The Abilities Poll will be going up shortly, so stay tuned and remember to vote!