Discussion CAP 5th Generation Revamp: Arghonaut

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Deck Knight

Tornadic Cyclohm
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#1
This thread will discuss the revamping of Arghonaut.

The following is all canonical data for the Arghonaut line:

Privatyke:


Height: 3’ 6”
Weight: 121 lbs / 55 kg
Evolution: Privatke -> Level 32 -> Arghonaut
Type: Water/Fighting
Water: Water STAB; Can breathe and have excellent mobility when underwater, are less capable on land unless they are entirely amphibious.
Fighting: Fighting STAB; ignore weight restrictions of throwing/grappling moves. Superior reaction time in close quarters.

Abilities:
Unaware: (Innate) When this Pokemon is released, a light aura enshrouds the opponent, nullifying all stat boosts or reductions other than Speed, it remains while this Pokemon is active.
Klutz (DW): (Can be Disabled) The Pokemon moves in a rare style of battling that uses an unpredictable, clumsy looking manner. The accuracy of its attacks are increased by 10% (flat). While engaging in this style it cannot use a hold item, however an item is necessary to pull it off.

Stats: 90 / 70 / 75 / 30 / 50 / 35

HP: 100
Atk: Rank 3
Def: Rank 3
SpA: Rank 2
SpD: Rank 2
Spe: 35
Size Class: 2
Weight Class: 4
Base Rank Total: 15

4th Gen Level-Up Moves:
0 Bubble
7 Smokescreen
10 Yawn
16 Wrap
21 Arm Thrust
27 Aqua Jet
32 Mach Punch
36 Taunt
41 Revenge
47 Thief
55 Submission
60 Punishment
67 Focus Punch

Egg Moves:
Bulk Up
Cross Chop
Headbutt
Octazooka
Recover
Scary Face

4th Gen Tutor Moves:
Dive
Gunk Shot
Headbutt
Ice Punch
Icy Wind
Knock Off
Low Kick
Snore
Superpower
Vacuum Wave

4th Gen TMs:
TM01 Focus Punch
TM03 Water Pulse
TM06 Toxic
TM07 Hail
TM10 Hidden Power
TM12 Taunt
TM13 Ice Beam
TM14 Blizzard
TM17 Protect
TM18 Rain Dance
TM21 Frustration
TM26 Earthquake
TM27 Return
TM31 Brick Break
TM32 Double Team
TM36 Sludge Bomb
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM41 Torment
TM42 Facade
TM43 Secret Power
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM49 Snatch
TM52 Focus Blast
TM55 Brine
TM56 Fling
TM58 Endure
TM60 Drain Punch
TM63 Embargo
TM78 Captivate
TM80 Rock Slide
TM82 Sleep Talk
TM83 Natural Gift
TM87 Swagger
TM90 Substitute
HM01 Cut
HM03 Surf
HM04 Strength
HM05 Whirlpool
HM06 Rock Smash
HM08 Waterfall

Arghonaut:


Height: 5’ 6”
Weight: 332.2 lbs / 151 kg
Evolution: Pryvatke -> Level 32 -> Arghonaut
Type: Water/Fighting
Water: Water STAB; Can breathe and have excellent mobility when underwater, are less capable on land unless they are entirely amphibious.
Fighting: Fighting STAB; ignore weight restrictions of throwing/grappling moves. Superior reaction time in close quarters.

Abilities:
Unaware: (Innate) When this Pokemon is released, a light aura enshrouds the opponent, nullifying all stat boosts or reductions other than Speed, it remains while this Pokemon is active.
Iron Fist (DW): (Innate) The Base Attack Power of this Pokemon’s “Punch” attacks is increased by two (2). (Known attacks effected: Bullet Punch, Comet Punch, Dizzy Punch, Drain Punch, Dynamicpunch, Fire Punch, Focus Punch, Hammer Arm, Ice Punch, Mach Punch, Mega Punch, Meteor Mash, Shadow Punch, Sky Uppercut, Thunderpunch)

Stats: 105 / 110 / 95 / 70 / 100 / 75

HP: 110
Atk: Rank 4
Def: Rank 3
SpA: Rank 3
SpD: Rank 4
Spe: 75
Size Class: 3
Weight Class: 5
Base Rank Total: 21

4th Gen Level-Up Moves:
0 Bubble
0 Yawn
0 Wrap
7 Smokescreen
10 Yawn
16 Wrap
21 Arm Thrust
27 Aqua Jet
32 Mach Punch
36 Taunt
41 Revenge
47 Thief
55 Submission
60 Punishment
67 Focus Punch

Egg Moves:
Bulk Up
Cross Chop
Headbutt
Octazooka
Recover
Scary Face

4th Gen Tutor Moves:
Dive
Gunk Shot
Headbutt
Ice Punch
Icy Wind
Knock Off
Low Kick
Snore
Superpower
ThunderPunch
Vacuum Wave

4th Gen TMs:
TM01 Focus Punch
TM03 Water Pulse
TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM07 Hail
TM10 Hidden Power
TM12 Taunt
TM13 Ice Beam
TM14 Blizzard
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM18 Rain Dance
TM21 Frustration
TM26 Earthquake
TM27 Return
TM31 Brick Break
TM32 Double Team
TM36 Sludge Bomb
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM41 Torment
TM42 Facade
TM43 Secret Power
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM49 Snatch
TM52 Focus Blast
TM55 Brine
TM56 Fling
TM58 Endure
TM60 Drain Punch
TM63 Embargo
TM68 Giga Impact
TM71 Stone Edge
TM78 Captivate
TM80 Rock Slide
TM82 Sleep Talk
TM83 Natural Gift
TM87 Swagger
TM90 Substitute
HM01 Cut
HM03 Surf
HM04 Strength
HM05 Whirlpool
HM06 Rock Smash
HM08 Waterfall


Notes: The pre-vo movepools for 4th Gen are effectively shortened versions of Arghonaut's movepool. This will be the case for all of the CAP projects.

1. 5th Generation Moves

Here is the list of 5th Generation Moves
.

5th Gen Moves currently on Arghonaut:
Circle Throw (Level-Up)
Wring Out (Level-Up)
Helping Hand (Level-Up)
Slash (Level-Up)
BubbleBeam (Level-Up)
Hydro Pump (Level-Up)
Soak (Egg)
Wide Guard (Egg)
Fast Guard (Egg)

TM Moves: What TMS should Arghonaut learn in addition to any currently existing ones.

Note: Round is the only new universal TM.

5th Gen (and other) added TMs currently on Arghonaut:

Seismic Toss (4th Gen Tutor)
Smack Down
Sludge Wave
Low Sweep
Round
Echoed Voice
Scald
Quash
Bulldoze
Work Up
Poison Jab

2. Hidden Ability:

Arghonaut's current Hidden Ability is Iron Fist, while Privatyke's is Klutz. In general these fit the Pokemon's flavor and are not overpowered, but they do deserve a thorough vetting. Arghonaut's concept is Decentralizer, and Unaware was it's primary claim to fame in doing that. In general these seem to be fine, and I have no specific suggestions on this score.

3. Older Generation Moves

Are there any older moves that were missed that might be viable on Arghonaut? Several old Gen moves were added in the general vein of brawling like Submission and Circle Throw, and I think Arghonaut deserves a good vetting for these. Privatyke however greatly corrupted the level-up movepool by introducing a lot of special water attacks. I would prefer both Pokemon in the line be closer together and not have quite so many new moves added.

Discussion Guidelines:

Movepools are assumed to be stripped down to 4th Gen level. 5th Gen added moves are listed for convenience. If you propose an addition of a move, please provide at least two sentences with reasoning consistent with the flavor or competitive needs of the Pokemon. Do the same with abilities: The key here is reasoning. CAPs are already fairly strong, so if you can make a solid argument for an expansion (be it even something as simple as the Pokemon's theme.)
 
#3
To be fair, I think Arghonaut deserves something along the lines of Night Slash. It's not a super strong move to begin with, so it wouldn't be bad for Privatyke to learn it later on in it's Level Up pool.

He's a treacharous pirate, so Dark isn't a surprising type of move to learn.

Why does it deserve Night Slash? Arghonaut and Privatyke's swords aren't very well incorporated into their movepools. We have things like Cross Chop, Punches...even Sludge Bomb and Ice Beam and Blizzard...but no slashes or cuts of any sort, besides the HM Cut itself?

This is coming from more of a flavor point of view, but it's something that Privatyke and Arghonaut deserve (The reason I argued for Night Slash in particular was because Leaf Blade isn't particularly viable, and Normal type moves like Slash are already abundant in Arghonaut and Privatyke's movepool) nonetheless.
 
#4
For flavor reasons, I will definitely support Venoshock. It goes along with it getting Sludge Bomb and Gunk Shot, in that he's a filthy pirate that can shoot Gunk out of his arms. Overall, I think it fits flavorwise.
 

Dogfish44

^_^
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
#5
The following moves, in my honest opinion, are the current Gen 5 moves which would work on Arghonaut:

Chip Away - It fits the concept neatly (Unaware was specifically to ignore stat boosts...), and I don't see any flavour reason to prevent it.

Foul Play - It's a pirate, and giving it this move not only makes sense, it isn't exactly good to deal with the majority of psychic types, who run -ATK or have a low ATK already.

Hone Claws - Simple Stat Booster, and I can see Arghonaut sharpening the blade it used like a knife rather easily.

Snarl - It's a pirate. It's grumpy and snarls at things, I'm not going to explain how this fits in flavourwise.

That's about it. He's already decent, and doesn't need too much of a boost. OFC, I think the current set of Gen V TMs should also be kept.
 
#6
Agreeing with all said above, and also supporting the additions of Metal Claw and Rock Blast. Metal Claw makes perfect sense as a flavor ability, since both Privatyke and Arghonaut have metal "claws." Additionally, it does almost nothing competitively, so there's no chance of it breaking either of them. Rock Blast is an unusual choice for a move, but Corsola (who is in both of Arghonaut's Egg groups) can pass it on to other Pokemon including Octillery, which means Arghonaut should probably get it. Also, flavor-wise, it would make sense that something with such a large number of arms could pick up a bunch of cannonballs ("rocks") and throw/launch them at something.
 
#7
Razor Shell would go well with Arghonaut. While ofc it doesn't have a shell to slash with, it's hooks should do just fine. This would give Arghonaut a second reliable water STAB move, which would be very helpful. Also, all the above stuff sounds good too.
 

LouisCyphre

heralds disaster.
#8
I'd like to see consideration for Echoed Voice, used as a rowdy pirate drinking song or some such.

I support the removal of high-powered special water moves from Privatyke—Argho has a lot going on in his movepool already.
 
#9
Out of the ones mentioned already I support Night Slash, Venoshock, Hone Claws, Metal Claw and (maybe) Razor Shell for the reasons the orginal poster used.

And also, removing high-powered water (like Hydro Pump) moves from Privatke would be a good idea. And then put those moves below Lvl. 25 for Argonaut to learn them for free when it evolves.
 

Deck Knight

Tornadic Cyclohm
is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Moderator
#10
An update:

Privatyke:


Height: 3’ 6”
Weight: 121 lbs / 55 kg
Evolution: Privatke -> Level 32 -> Arghonaut
Type: Water/Fighting
Water: Water STAB; Can breathe and have excellent mobility when underwater, are less capable on land unless they are entirely amphibious.
Fighting: Fighting STAB; ignore weight restrictions of throwing/grappling moves. Superior reaction time in close quarters.

Abilities:
Unaware: (Innate) When this Pokemon is released, a light aura enshrouds the opponent, nullifying all stat boosts or reductions other than Speed, it remains while this Pokemon is active.
Klutz (DW): (Can be Disabled) The Pokemon moves in a rare style of battling that uses an unpredictable, clumsy looking manner. The accuracy of its attacks are increased by 10% (flat). While engaging in this style it cannot use a hold item, however an item is necessary to pull it off.

Stats: 90 / 70 / 75 / 30 / 50 / 35

HP: 100
Atk: Rank 3
Def: Rank 3
SpA: Rank 2
SpD: Rank 2
Spe: 35
Size Class: 2
Weight Class: 4
Base Rank Total: 15

4th Gen Level-Up Moves:
0 Bubble
7 Smokescreen
10 Yawn
16 Wrap
21 Arm Thrust
27 Aqua Jet
32 Mach Punch
36 Taunt
41 Revenge
47 Thief
55 Submission
60 Punishment
67 Focus Punch

5th Gen Level-Up moves:
0 Bubble
0 Smokescreen
7 Yawn
10 Wrap
13 Chip Away
17 Arm Thrust
21 Aqua Jet
28 Mach Punch
32 Taunt
39 Revenge
43 Thief
50 Waterfall
54 Submission
61 Punishment
67 Focus Punch

Egg Moves:
Bulk Up
Circle Throw
Cross Chop
Headbutt
Octazooka
Recover
Rock Blast
Scary Face
Seismic Toss
Soak
Venoshock

4th Gen Tutor Moves:
Dive
Gunk Shot
Headbutt
Ice Punch
Icy Wind
Knock Off
Low Kick
Snore
Superpower
Vacuum Wave

4th Gen TMs:
TM01 Focus Punch
TM03 Water Pulse
TM06 Toxic
TM07 Hail
TM10 Hidden Power
TM12 Taunt
TM13 Ice Beam
TM14 Blizzard
TM17 Protect
TM18 Rain Dance
TM21 Frustration
TM26 Earthquake
TM27 Return
TM31 Brick Break
TM32 Double Team
TM36 Sludge Bomb
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM41 Torment
TM42 Facade
TM43 Secret Power
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM49 Snatch
TM52 Focus Blast
TM55 Brine
TM56 Fling
TM58 Endure
TM60 Drain Punch
TM63 Embargo
TM78 Captivate
TM80 Rock Slide
TM82 Sleep Talk
TM83 Natural Gift
TM87 Swagger
TM90 Substitute
HM01 Cut
HM03 Surf
HM04 Strength
HM05 Whirlpool
HM06 Rock Smash
HM08 Waterfall

5th Gen TMs:
TM06 Toxic
TM07 Hail
TM10 Hidden Power
TM12 Taunt
TM13 Ice Beam
TM14 Blizzard
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM18 Rain Dance
TM21 Frustration
TM26 Earthquake
TM27 Return
TM31 Brick Break
TM32 Double Team
TM34 Sludge Wave
TM36 Sludge Bomb
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM41 Torment
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM47 Low Sweep
TM48 Round
TM49 Echoed Voice
TM52 Focus Blast
TM55 Scald
TM56 Fling
TM63 Embargo
TM78 Bulldoze
TM80 Rock Slide
TM83 Work Up
TM84 Poison Jab
TM87 Swagger
TM90 Substitute
TM94 Rock Smash
TM95 Snarl
HM01 Cut
HM03 Surf
HM04 Strength
HM05 Waterfall
HM06 Dive

Arghonaut:


Height: 5’ 6”
Weight: 332.2 lbs / 151 kg
Evolution: Pryvatke -> Level 32 -> Arghonaut
Type: Water/Fighting
Water: Water STAB; Can breathe and have excellent mobility when underwater, are less capable on land unless they are entirely amphibious.
Fighting: Fighting STAB; ignore weight restrictions of throwing/grappling moves. Superior reaction time in close quarters.

Abilities:
Unaware: (Innate) When this Pokemon is released, a light aura enshrouds the opponent, nullifying all stat boosts or reductions other than Speed, it remains while this Pokemon is active.
Iron Fist (DW): (Innate) The Base Attack Power of this Pokemon’s “Punch” attacks is increased by two (2). (Known attacks effected: Bullet Punch, Comet Punch, Dizzy Punch, Drain Punch, Dynamicpunch, Fire Punch, Focus Punch, Hammer Arm, Ice Punch, Mach Punch, Mega Punch, Meteor Mash, Shadow Punch, Sky Uppercut, Thunderpunch)

Stats: 105 / 110 / 95 / 70 / 100 / 75

HP: 110
Atk: Rank 4
Def: Rank 3
SpA: Rank 3
SpD: Rank 4
Spe: 75
Size Class: 3
Weight Class: 5
Base Rank Total: 21

4th Gen Level-Up Moves:
0 Bubble
0 Yawn
0 Wrap
7 Smokescreen
10 Yawn
16 Wrap
21 Arm Thrust
27 Aqua Jet
32 Mach Punch
36 Taunt
41 Revenge
47 Thief
55 Submission
60 Punishment
67 Focus Punch

5th Gen Level-Up moves:
0 Night Slash
0 Constrict
0 Bubble
0 Smokescreen
0 Yawn
7 Yawn
10 Wrap
13 Chip Away
17 Arm Thrust
21 Aqua Jet
28 Mach Punch
32 Foul Play
36 Taunt
41 Revenge
47 Thief
56 Waterfall
62 Submission
71 Punishment
77 Focus Punch

Egg Moves:
Bulk Up
Circle Throw
Cross Chop
Headbutt
Octazooka
Recover
Rock Blast
Scary Face
Seismic Toss
Soak
Venoshock

4th Gen Tutor Moves:
Dive
Gunk Shot
Headbutt
Ice Punch
Icy Wind
Knock Off
Low Kick
Snore
Superpower
ThunderPunch
Vacuum Wave

4th Gen TMs:
TM01 Focus Punch
TM03 Water Pulse
TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM07 Hail
TM10 Hidden Power
TM12 Taunt
TM13 Ice Beam
TM14 Blizzard
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM18 Rain Dance
TM21 Frustration
TM26 Earthquake
TM27 Return
TM31 Brick Break
TM32 Double Team
TM36 Sludge Bomb
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM41 Torment
TM42 Facade
TM43 Secret Power
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM49 Snatch
TM52 Focus Blast
TM55 Brine
TM56 Fling
TM58 Endure
TM60 Drain Punch
TM63 Embargo
TM68 Giga Impact
TM71 Stone Edge
TM78 Captivate
TM80 Rock Slide
TM82 Sleep Talk
TM83 Natural Gift
TM87 Swagger
TM90 Substitute
HM01 Cut
HM03 Surf
HM04 Strength
HM05 Whirlpool
HM06 Rock Smash
HM08 Waterfall

5th Gen TMs:
TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM07 Hail
TM10 Hidden Power
TM12 Taunt
TM13 Ice Beam
TM14 Blizzard
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM18 Rain Dance
TM21 Frustration
TM23 Smack Down
TM26 Earthquake
TM27 Return
TM31 Brick Break
TM32 Double Team
TM34 Sludge Wave
TM36 Sludge Bomb
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM41 Torment
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM47 Low Sweep
TM48 Round
TM49 Echoed Voice
TM52 Focus Blast
TM55 Scald
TM56 Fling
TM60 Quash
TM63 Embargo
TM68 Giga Impact
TM71 Stone Edge
TM78 Bulldoze
TM80 Rock Slide
TM83 Work Up
TM84 Poison Jab
TM87 Swagger
TM90 Substitute
TM94 Rock Smash
TM95 Snarl
HM01: Cut
HM03: Surf
HM04: Strength
HM05: Waterfall
HM06: Dive


Notes:

MC only accrues if you have any of the moves currently in your Privatyke or Arghonaut's movepool, unless they were one of your selected starting attacks.

Moved/Removed Attacks:
Aqua Jet is now a pre-25 Move.
Seismic Toss moved from 4th Gen Tutor to Egg Moves. (No MC Change).
Sand Attack, Fast Guard, and Wide Guard removed from Egg (+3MC each).
Bubblebeam, Hydro Pump, Wring Out, Helping Hand, and Slash removed from Level-up. (+1 MC each)
Circle Throw and Cross Chop moved from Privatyke/Argho Level-Up to Egg Move only (No MC change, you may keep Cross Chop and Circle Throw and move them to Egg.)
Quash and Smack Down have been removed from Privatyke's TM movepool (+2MC each) but remain in Arghonaut's movepool.
Waterfall is now a Level-Up move (+1 MC), move Waterfall from TM to Level-Up.

Added Attacks:
Chip Away is now a pre-25 Move.
Night Slash is in Arghonaut's Pre-25 Movepool.
Foul Play is in Arghonaut's post-25 Movepool.
Snarl is now available as a 5th Gen TM for Privatyke and Arghonaut.
ThunderPunch is now available in Arghonaut's 4th Gen Tutor moves because of canon. It is not available for Privatyke.
Rock Blast and Venoshock are now available as Egg Moves.

Unless there are any objections, I like the way this looks and it is much more coherent. I will allow a small amount of time for further commentary.

And a done.
 
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