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Discussion CAP 5th Generation Revamp: Arghonaut

Discussion in 'Policy Center' started by Deck Knight, Dec 30, 2011.

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  1. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight DK! DK! Donkey Kong is here!
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    This thread will discuss the revamping of Arghonaut.

    The following is all canonical data for the Arghonaut line:

    Arghonaut Family Data (open)

    Privatyke:

    [​IMG]
    Height: 3’ 6”
    Weight: 121 lbs / 55 kg
    Evolution: Privatke -> Level 32 -> Arghonaut
    Type: Water/Fighting
    Water: Water STAB; Can breathe and have excellent mobility when underwater, are less capable on land unless they are entirely amphibious.
    Fighting: Fighting STAB; ignore weight restrictions of throwing/grappling moves. Superior reaction time in close quarters.

    Abilities:
    Unaware: (Innate) When this Pokemon is released, a light aura enshrouds the opponent, nullifying all stat boosts or reductions other than Speed, it remains while this Pokemon is active.
    Klutz (DW): (Can be Disabled) The Pokemon moves in a rare style of battling that uses an unpredictable, clumsy looking manner. The accuracy of its attacks are increased by 10% (flat). While engaging in this style it cannot use a hold item, however an item is necessary to pull it off.

    Stats: 90 / 70 / 75 / 30 / 50 / 35

    HP: 100
    Atk: Rank 3
    Def: Rank 3
    SpA: Rank 2
    SpD: Rank 2
    Spe: 35
    Size Class: 2
    Weight Class: 4
    Base Rank Total: 15

    4th Gen Level-Up Moves:
    0 Bubble
    7 Smokescreen
    10 Yawn
    16 Wrap
    21 Arm Thrust
    27 Aqua Jet
    32 Mach Punch
    36 Taunt
    41 Revenge
    47 Thief
    55 Submission
    60 Punishment
    67 Focus Punch

    Egg Moves:
    Bulk Up
    Cross Chop
    Headbutt
    Octazooka
    Recover
    Scary Face

    4th Gen Tutor Moves:
    Dive
    Gunk Shot
    Headbutt
    Ice Punch
    Icy Wind
    Knock Off
    Low Kick
    Snore
    Superpower
    Vacuum Wave

    4th Gen TMs:
    TM01 Focus Punch
    TM03 Water Pulse
    TM06 Toxic
    TM07 Hail
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM12 Taunt
    TM13 Ice Beam
    TM14 Blizzard
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM21 Frustration
    TM26 Earthquake
    TM27 Return
    TM31 Brick Break
    TM32 Double Team
    TM36 Sludge Bomb
    TM39 Rock Tomb
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Secret Power
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM46 Thief
    TM49 Snatch
    TM52 Focus Blast
    TM55 Brine
    TM56 Fling
    TM58 Endure
    TM60 Drain Punch
    TM63 Embargo
    TM78 Captivate
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM82 Sleep Talk
    TM83 Natural Gift
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute
    HM01 Cut
    HM03 Surf
    HM04 Strength
    HM05 Whirlpool
    HM06 Rock Smash
    HM08 Waterfall

    Arghonaut:

    [​IMG]
    Height: 5’ 6”
    Weight: 332.2 lbs / 151 kg
    Evolution: Pryvatke -> Level 32 -> Arghonaut
    Type: Water/Fighting
    Water: Water STAB; Can breathe and have excellent mobility when underwater, are less capable on land unless they are entirely amphibious.
    Fighting: Fighting STAB; ignore weight restrictions of throwing/grappling moves. Superior reaction time in close quarters.

    Abilities:
    Unaware: (Innate) When this Pokemon is released, a light aura enshrouds the opponent, nullifying all stat boosts or reductions other than Speed, it remains while this Pokemon is active.
    Iron Fist (DW): (Innate) The Base Attack Power of this Pokemon’s “Punch” attacks is increased by two (2). (Known attacks effected: Bullet Punch, Comet Punch, Dizzy Punch, Drain Punch, Dynamicpunch, Fire Punch, Focus Punch, Hammer Arm, Ice Punch, Mach Punch, Mega Punch, Meteor Mash, Shadow Punch, Sky Uppercut, Thunderpunch)

    Stats: 105 / 110 / 95 / 70 / 100 / 75

    HP: 110
    Atk: Rank 4
    Def: Rank 3
    SpA: Rank 3
    SpD: Rank 4
    Spe: 75
    Size Class: 3
    Weight Class: 5
    Base Rank Total: 21

    4th Gen Level-Up Moves:
    0 Bubble
    0 Yawn
    0 Wrap
    7 Smokescreen
    10 Yawn
    16 Wrap
    21 Arm Thrust
    27 Aqua Jet
    32 Mach Punch
    36 Taunt
    41 Revenge
    47 Thief
    55 Submission
    60 Punishment
    67 Focus Punch

    Egg Moves:
    Bulk Up
    Cross Chop
    Headbutt
    Octazooka
    Recover
    Scary Face

    4th Gen Tutor Moves:
    Dive
    Gunk Shot
    Headbutt
    Ice Punch
    Icy Wind
    Knock Off
    Low Kick
    Snore
    Superpower
    ThunderPunch
    Vacuum Wave

    4th Gen TMs:
    TM01 Focus Punch
    TM03 Water Pulse
    TM05 Roar
    TM06 Toxic
    TM07 Hail
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM12 Taunt
    TM13 Ice Beam
    TM14 Blizzard
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM21 Frustration
    TM26 Earthquake
    TM27 Return
    TM31 Brick Break
    TM32 Double Team
    TM36 Sludge Bomb
    TM39 Rock Tomb
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Secret Power
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM46 Thief
    TM49 Snatch
    TM52 Focus Blast
    TM55 Brine
    TM56 Fling
    TM58 Endure
    TM60 Drain Punch
    TM63 Embargo
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM71 Stone Edge
    TM78 Captivate
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM82 Sleep Talk
    TM83 Natural Gift
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute
    HM01 Cut
    HM03 Surf
    HM04 Strength
    HM05 Whirlpool
    HM06 Rock Smash
    HM08 Waterfall



    Notes: The pre-vo movepools for 4th Gen are effectively shortened versions of Arghonaut's movepool. This will be the case for all of the CAP projects.

    1. 5th Generation Moves

    Here is the list of 5th Generation Moves
    .

    5th Gen Moves currently on Arghonaut:
    Circle Throw (Level-Up)
    Wring Out (Level-Up)
    Helping Hand (Level-Up)
    Slash (Level-Up)
    BubbleBeam (Level-Up)
    Hydro Pump (Level-Up)
    Soak (Egg)
    Wide Guard (Egg)
    Fast Guard (Egg)

    TM Moves: What TMS should Arghonaut learn in addition to any currently existing ones.

    Note: Round is the only new universal TM.

    5th Gen (and other) added TMs currently on Arghonaut:

    Seismic Toss (4th Gen Tutor)
    Smack Down
    Sludge Wave
    Low Sweep
    Round
    Echoed Voice
    Scald
    Quash
    Bulldoze
    Work Up
    Poison Jab

    2. Hidden Ability:

    Arghonaut's current Hidden Ability is Iron Fist, while Privatyke's is Klutz. In general these fit the Pokemon's flavor and are not overpowered, but they do deserve a thorough vetting. Arghonaut's concept is Decentralizer, and Unaware was it's primary claim to fame in doing that. In general these seem to be fine, and I have no specific suggestions on this score.

    3. Older Generation Moves

    Are there any older moves that were missed that might be viable on Arghonaut? Several old Gen moves were added in the general vein of brawling like Submission and Circle Throw, and I think Arghonaut deserves a good vetting for these. Privatyke however greatly corrupted the level-up movepool by introducing a lot of special water attacks. I would prefer both Pokemon in the line be closer together and not have quite so many new moves added.

    Discussion Guidelines:

    Movepools are assumed to be stripped down to 4th Gen level. 5th Gen added moves are listed for convenience. If you propose an addition of a move, please provide at least two sentences with reasoning consistent with the flavor or competitive needs of the Pokemon. Do the same with abilities: The key here is reasoning. CAPs are already fairly strong, so if you can make a solid argument for an expansion (be it even something as simple as the Pokemon's theme.)
  2. Tortferngatr

    Tortferngatr

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    ...Don't you mean Sludge Wave as an added move, instead of SLudge Bomb?
  3. ToastTyrant13

    ToastTyrant13

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    To be fair, I think Arghonaut deserves something along the lines of Night Slash. It's not a super strong move to begin with, so it wouldn't be bad for Privatyke to learn it later on in it's Level Up pool.

    He's a treacharous pirate, so Dark isn't a surprising type of move to learn.

    Why does it deserve Night Slash? Arghonaut and Privatyke's swords aren't very well incorporated into their movepools. We have things like Cross Chop, Punches...even Sludge Bomb and Ice Beam and Blizzard...but no slashes or cuts of any sort, besides the HM Cut itself?

    This is coming from more of a flavor point of view, but it's something that Privatyke and Arghonaut deserve (The reason I argued for Night Slash in particular was because Leaf Blade isn't particularly viable, and Normal type moves like Slash are already abundant in Arghonaut and Privatyke's movepool) nonetheless.
  4. UllarWarlord

    UllarWarlord

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    For flavor reasons, I will definitely support Venoshock. It goes along with it getting Sludge Bomb and Gunk Shot, in that he's a filthy pirate that can shoot Gunk out of his arms. Overall, I think it fits flavorwise.
  5. Dogfish44

    Dogfish44 Banned from 22 Casinos
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    The following moves, in my honest opinion, are the current Gen 5 moves which would work on Arghonaut:

    Chip Away - It fits the concept neatly (Unaware was specifically to ignore stat boosts...), and I don't see any flavour reason to prevent it.

    Foul Play - It's a pirate, and giving it this move not only makes sense, it isn't exactly good to deal with the majority of psychic types, who run -ATK or have a low ATK already.

    Hone Claws - Simple Stat Booster, and I can see Arghonaut sharpening the blade it used like a knife rather easily.

    Snarl - It's a pirate. It's grumpy and snarls at things, I'm not going to explain how this fits in flavourwise.

    That's about it. He's already decent, and doesn't need too much of a boost. OFC, I think the current set of Gen V TMs should also be kept.
  6. Dummy007

    Dummy007

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    Agreeing with all said above, and also supporting the additions of Metal Claw and Rock Blast. Metal Claw makes perfect sense as a flavor ability, since both Privatyke and Arghonaut have metal "claws." Additionally, it does almost nothing competitively, so there's no chance of it breaking either of them. Rock Blast is an unusual choice for a move, but Corsola (who is in both of Arghonaut's Egg groups) can pass it on to other Pokemon including Octillery, which means Arghonaut should probably get it. Also, flavor-wise, it would make sense that something with such a large number of arms could pick up a bunch of cannonballs ("rocks") and throw/launch them at something.
  7. Kaxtar

    Kaxtar

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    Razor Shell would go well with Arghonaut. While ofc it doesn't have a shell to slash with, it's hooks should do just fine. This would give Arghonaut a second reliable water STAB move, which would be very helpful. Also, all the above stuff sounds good too.
  8. LouisCyphre

    LouisCyphre heralds disaster.

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    2,618
    I'd like to see consideration for Echoed Voice, used as a rowdy pirate drinking song or some such.

    I support the removal of high-powered special water moves from Privatyke—Argho has a lot going on in his movepool already.
  9. Metal Bagon

    Metal Bagon

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    Out of the ones mentioned already I support Night Slash, Venoshock, Hone Claws, Metal Claw and (maybe) Razor Shell for the reasons the orginal poster used.

    And also, removing high-powered water (like Hydro Pump) moves from Privatke would be a good idea. And then put those moves below Lvl. 25 for Argonaut to learn them for free when it evolves.
  10. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight DK! DK! Donkey Kong is here!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
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    An update:

    Arghonaut Family Data (open)

    Privatyke:

    [​IMG]
    Height: 3’ 6”
    Weight: 121 lbs / 55 kg
    Evolution: Privatke -> Level 32 -> Arghonaut
    Type: Water/Fighting
    Water: Water STAB; Can breathe and have excellent mobility when underwater, are less capable on land unless they are entirely amphibious.
    Fighting: Fighting STAB; ignore weight restrictions of throwing/grappling moves. Superior reaction time in close quarters.

    Abilities:
    Unaware: (Innate) When this Pokemon is released, a light aura enshrouds the opponent, nullifying all stat boosts or reductions other than Speed, it remains while this Pokemon is active.
    Klutz (DW): (Can be Disabled) The Pokemon moves in a rare style of battling that uses an unpredictable, clumsy looking manner. The accuracy of its attacks are increased by 10% (flat). While engaging in this style it cannot use a hold item, however an item is necessary to pull it off.

    Stats: 90 / 70 / 75 / 30 / 50 / 35

    HP: 100
    Atk: Rank 3
    Def: Rank 3
    SpA: Rank 2
    SpD: Rank 2
    Spe: 35
    Size Class: 2
    Weight Class: 4
    Base Rank Total: 15

    4th Gen Level-Up Moves:
    0 Bubble
    7 Smokescreen
    10 Yawn
    16 Wrap
    21 Arm Thrust
    27 Aqua Jet
    32 Mach Punch
    36 Taunt
    41 Revenge
    47 Thief
    55 Submission
    60 Punishment
    67 Focus Punch

    5th Gen Level-Up moves:
    0 Bubble
    0 Smokescreen
    7 Yawn
    10 Wrap
    13 Chip Away
    17 Arm Thrust
    21 Aqua Jet
    28 Mach Punch
    32 Taunt
    39 Revenge
    43 Thief
    50 Waterfall
    54 Submission
    61 Punishment
    67 Focus Punch

    Egg Moves:
    Bulk Up
    Circle Throw
    Cross Chop
    Headbutt
    Octazooka
    Recover
    Rock Blast
    Scary Face
    Seismic Toss
    Soak
    Venoshock

    4th Gen Tutor Moves:
    Dive
    Gunk Shot
    Headbutt
    Ice Punch
    Icy Wind
    Knock Off
    Low Kick
    Snore
    Superpower
    Vacuum Wave

    4th Gen TMs:
    TM01 Focus Punch
    TM03 Water Pulse
    TM06 Toxic
    TM07 Hail
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM12 Taunt
    TM13 Ice Beam
    TM14 Blizzard
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM21 Frustration
    TM26 Earthquake
    TM27 Return
    TM31 Brick Break
    TM32 Double Team
    TM36 Sludge Bomb
    TM39 Rock Tomb
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Secret Power
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM46 Thief
    TM49 Snatch
    TM52 Focus Blast
    TM55 Brine
    TM56 Fling
    TM58 Endure
    TM60 Drain Punch
    TM63 Embargo
    TM78 Captivate
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM82 Sleep Talk
    TM83 Natural Gift
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute
    HM01 Cut
    HM03 Surf
    HM04 Strength
    HM05 Whirlpool
    HM06 Rock Smash
    HM08 Waterfall

    5th Gen TMs:
    TM06 Toxic
    TM07 Hail
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM12 Taunt
    TM13 Ice Beam
    TM14 Blizzard
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM21 Frustration
    TM26 Earthquake
    TM27 Return
    TM31 Brick Break
    TM32 Double Team
    TM34 Sludge Wave
    TM36 Sludge Bomb
    TM39 Rock Tomb
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM46 Thief
    TM47 Low Sweep
    TM48 Round
    TM49 Echoed Voice
    TM52 Focus Blast
    TM55 Scald
    TM56 Fling
    TM63 Embargo
    TM78 Bulldoze
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM83 Work Up
    TM84 Poison Jab
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute
    TM94 Rock Smash
    TM95 Snarl
    HM01 Cut
    HM03 Surf
    HM04 Strength
    HM05 Waterfall
    HM06 Dive

    Arghonaut:

    [​IMG]
    Height: 5’ 6”
    Weight: 332.2 lbs / 151 kg
    Evolution: Pryvatke -> Level 32 -> Arghonaut
    Type: Water/Fighting
    Water: Water STAB; Can breathe and have excellent mobility when underwater, are less capable on land unless they are entirely amphibious.
    Fighting: Fighting STAB; ignore weight restrictions of throwing/grappling moves. Superior reaction time in close quarters.

    Abilities:
    Unaware: (Innate) When this Pokemon is released, a light aura enshrouds the opponent, nullifying all stat boosts or reductions other than Speed, it remains while this Pokemon is active.
    Iron Fist (DW): (Innate) The Base Attack Power of this Pokemon’s “Punch” attacks is increased by two (2). (Known attacks effected: Bullet Punch, Comet Punch, Dizzy Punch, Drain Punch, Dynamicpunch, Fire Punch, Focus Punch, Hammer Arm, Ice Punch, Mach Punch, Mega Punch, Meteor Mash, Shadow Punch, Sky Uppercut, Thunderpunch)

    Stats: 105 / 110 / 95 / 70 / 100 / 75

    HP: 110
    Atk: Rank 4
    Def: Rank 3
    SpA: Rank 3
    SpD: Rank 4
    Spe: 75
    Size Class: 3
    Weight Class: 5
    Base Rank Total: 21

    4th Gen Level-Up Moves:
    0 Bubble
    0 Yawn
    0 Wrap
    7 Smokescreen
    10 Yawn
    16 Wrap
    21 Arm Thrust
    27 Aqua Jet
    32 Mach Punch
    36 Taunt
    41 Revenge
    47 Thief
    55 Submission
    60 Punishment
    67 Focus Punch

    5th Gen Level-Up moves:
    0 Night Slash
    0 Constrict
    0 Bubble
    0 Smokescreen
    0 Yawn
    7 Yawn
    10 Wrap
    13 Chip Away
    17 Arm Thrust
    21 Aqua Jet
    28 Mach Punch
    32 Foul Play
    36 Taunt
    41 Revenge
    47 Thief
    56 Waterfall
    62 Submission
    71 Punishment
    77 Focus Punch

    Egg Moves:
    Bulk Up
    Circle Throw
    Cross Chop
    Headbutt
    Octazooka
    Recover
    Rock Blast
    Scary Face
    Seismic Toss
    Soak
    Venoshock

    4th Gen Tutor Moves:
    Dive
    Gunk Shot
    Headbutt
    Ice Punch
    Icy Wind
    Knock Off
    Low Kick
    Snore
    Superpower
    ThunderPunch
    Vacuum Wave

    4th Gen TMs:
    TM01 Focus Punch
    TM03 Water Pulse
    TM05 Roar
    TM06 Toxic
    TM07 Hail
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM12 Taunt
    TM13 Ice Beam
    TM14 Blizzard
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM21 Frustration
    TM26 Earthquake
    TM27 Return
    TM31 Brick Break
    TM32 Double Team
    TM36 Sludge Bomb
    TM39 Rock Tomb
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Secret Power
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM46 Thief
    TM49 Snatch
    TM52 Focus Blast
    TM55 Brine
    TM56 Fling
    TM58 Endure
    TM60 Drain Punch
    TM63 Embargo
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM71 Stone Edge
    TM78 Captivate
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM82 Sleep Talk
    TM83 Natural Gift
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute
    HM01 Cut
    HM03 Surf
    HM04 Strength
    HM05 Whirlpool
    HM06 Rock Smash
    HM08 Waterfall

    5th Gen TMs:
    TM05 Roar
    TM06 Toxic
    TM07 Hail
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM12 Taunt
    TM13 Ice Beam
    TM14 Blizzard
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM21 Frustration
    TM23 Smack Down
    TM26 Earthquake
    TM27 Return
    TM31 Brick Break
    TM32 Double Team
    TM34 Sludge Wave
    TM36 Sludge Bomb
    TM39 Rock Tomb
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM46 Thief
    TM47 Low Sweep
    TM48 Round
    TM49 Echoed Voice
    TM52 Focus Blast
    TM55 Scald
    TM56 Fling
    TM60 Quash
    TM63 Embargo
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM71 Stone Edge
    TM78 Bulldoze
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM83 Work Up
    TM84 Poison Jab
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute
    TM94 Rock Smash
    TM95 Snarl
    HM01: Cut
    HM03: Surf
    HM04: Strength
    HM05: Waterfall
    HM06: Dive


    Notes:

    MC only accrues if you have any of the moves currently in your Privatyke or Arghonaut's movepool, unless they were one of your selected starting attacks.

    Moved/Removed Attacks:
    Aqua Jet is now a pre-25 Move.
    Seismic Toss moved from 4th Gen Tutor to Egg Moves. (No MC Change).
    Sand Attack, Fast Guard, and Wide Guard removed from Egg (+3MC each).
    Bubblebeam, Hydro Pump, Wring Out, Helping Hand, and Slash removed from Level-up. (+1 MC each)
    Circle Throw and Cross Chop moved from Privatyke/Argho Level-Up to Egg Move only (No MC change, you may keep Cross Chop and Circle Throw and move them to Egg.)
    Quash and Smack Down have been removed from Privatyke's TM movepool (+2MC each) but remain in Arghonaut's movepool.
    Waterfall is now a Level-Up move (+1 MC), move Waterfall from TM to Level-Up.

    Added Attacks:
    Chip Away is now a pre-25 Move.
    Night Slash is in Arghonaut's Pre-25 Movepool.
    Foul Play is in Arghonaut's post-25 Movepool.
    Snarl is now available as a 5th Gen TM for Privatyke and Arghonaut.
    ThunderPunch is now available in Arghonaut's 4th Gen Tutor moves because of canon. It is not available for Privatyke.
    Rock Blast and Venoshock are now available as Egg Moves.

    Unless there are any objections, I like the way this looks and it is much more coherent. I will allow a small amount of time for further commentary.

    And a done.
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