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Discussion CAP 5th Generation Revamp: Cyclohm

Discussion in 'Policy Center' started by Deck Knight, Sep 6, 2011.

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  1. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight DK! DK! Donkey Kong is here!
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    This thread will discuss the revamping to Cyclohm.

    The following is all the canonical data for Cyclohm line:

    CAP 8: Cyclohm
    Concept: Neglected Ability (Useful abilities that aren't featured on a strong OU Pokemon)

    Monohm (open)
    Monohm:

    [​IMG]

    Height: 2' 4"
    Weight: 41.8 lbs / 19 kg
    Evolution: Monohm --Level 22--> Duclohm --Level 33--> Cyclohm
    Type: Electric/Dragon
    Electric: Electric STAB; 50% reduction in paralysis chance from other electrical attacks, perfect accuracy and 30% chance of Protect breaking Thunder during Rain. Superior senses in power plant environments.
    Dragon: Dragon STAB; More in touch with legendary or special auras in arenas. Able to use Hyper Beam and Giga Impact without losing focus.

    Abilities:
    Shield Dust: (Innate) This pokemon has dust covering the outside of its body that prevents opponents secondary effects from taking place (eg burn from Flamethrower). It does not block direct status moves (such as Thunder Wave.)
    Static: (Innate) This pokemon’s body is surrounded by an electric field that has a 30% chance of paralyzing opponents that use contact moves on this pokemon.

    Stats: 48 / 50 / 68 / 62 / 40 / 60

    HP: 90
    Atk: Rank 2
    Def: Rank 3
    SpA: Rank 3
    SpD: Rank 2
    Spe: 60
    Size Class: 1
    Weight Class: 2
    Base Rank Total: 14

    4th Gen Level-Up Moves:
    0 Tackle
    0 Growl
    7 Dragon Rage
    11 Charge
    15 Thundershock
    19 Rain Dance
    25 Sonicboom
    29 Discharge
    33 Slack Off
    37 Thrash
    42 Zap Cannon

    Egg Moves:
    DragonBreath
    Heal Bell
    Hydro Pump
    Mud-Slap
    Power Gem
    Dragon Dance
    Dragon Rush
    Shock Wave
    Magnet Rise
    Signal Beam
    Thrash
    Water Pulse

    4th Gen Tutor Moves:
    Draco Meteor
    Headbutt
    Mud-Slap
    Outrage
    Signal Beam
    Snore
    Swift
    Twister

    5th Gen Tutor Moves:
    Draco Meteor

    4th Gen TMs:
    TM02 Dragon Claw
    TM03 Water Pulse
    TM05 Roar
    TM06 Toxic
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM16 Light Screen
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM21 Frustration
    TM24 Thunderbolt
    TM25 Thunder
    TM27 Return
    TM32 Double Team
    TM34 Shock Wave
    TM35 Flamethrower
    TM38 Fire Blast
    TM40 Aerial Ace
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Secret Power
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM57 Charge Beam
    TM58 Endure
    TM59 Dragon Pulse
    TM70 Flash
    TM73 Thunder Wave
    TM78 Captivate
    TM82 Sleep Talk
    TM83 Natural Gift
    TM90 Substitute
    TM92 Trick Room
    HM03 Surf
    HM04 Strength
    HM07 Waterfall

    Duclohm (open)
    Duclohm:

    [​IMG]

    Height: 3'4"
    Weight: 86.8 lbs / 39 kg
    Evolution: Monohm --Level 22--> Duclohm --Level 33--> Cyclohm
    Type: Electric/Dragon
    Electric: Electric STAB; 50% reduction in paralysis chance from other electrical attacks, perfect accuracy and 30% chance of Protect breaking Thunder during Rain. Superior senses in power plant environments.
    Dragon: Dragon STAB; More in touch with legendary or special auras in arenas. Able to use Hyper Beam and Giga Impact without losing focus.

    Abilities:
    Shield Dust: (Innate) This pokemon has dust covering the outside of its body that prevents opponents secondary effects from taking place (eg burn from Flamethrower). It does not block direct status moves (such as Thunder Wave.)
    Static: (Innate) This pokemon’s body is surrounded by an electric field that has a 30% chance of paralyzing opponents that use contact moves on this pokemon.

    Stats: 78 / 55 / 88 / 82 / 55 / 60

    HP: 100
    Atk: Rank 2
    Def: Rank 3
    SpA: Rank 3
    SpD: Rank 2
    Spe: 60
    Size Class: 2
    Weight Class: 3
    Base Rank Total: 15

    4th Gen Level-Up Moves:
    0 Tackle
    0 Growl
    7 Dragon Rage
    11 Charge
    15 Thundershock
    19 Rain Dance
    22 Double Hit
    29 Sonicboom
    35 Discharge
    39 Slack Off
    44 Thrash
    53 Zap Cannon

    Egg Moves:
    DragonBreath
    Heal Bell
    Hydro Pump
    Mud-Slap
    Power Gem
    Dragon Dance
    Dragon Rush
    Shock Wave
    Magnet Rise
    Signal Beam
    Thrash
    Water Pulse

    4th Gen Tutor Moves:
    Draco Meteor
    Headbutt
    Mud-Slap
    Outrage
    Signal Beam
    Snore
    Swift
    Twister

    5th Gen Tutor Moves:
    Draco Meteor

    4th Gen TMs:
    TM02 Dragon Claw
    TM03 Water Pulse
    TM05 Roar
    TM06 Toxic
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM16 Light Screen
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM21 Frustration
    TM24 Thunderbolt
    TM25 Thunder
    TM27 Return
    TM32 Double Team
    TM34 Shock Wave
    TM35 Flamethrower
    TM38 Fire Blast
    TM40 Aerial Ace
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Secret Power
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM57 Charge Beam
    TM58 Endure
    TM59 Dragon Pulse
    TM70 Flash
    TM73 Thunder Wave
    TM78 Captivate
    TM82 Sleep Talk
    TM83 Natural Gift
    TM90 Substitute
    TM92 Trick Room
    HM03 Surf
    HM04 Strength
    HM07 Waterfall

    Cyclohm (open)
    Cyclohm:

    [​IMG]

    Height: 5'4"
    Weight: 129.8 kbs / 59 kg.
    Evolution: Monohm --Level 22--> Duclohm --Level 33--> Cyclohm
    Type: Electric/Dragon
    Electric: Electric STAB; 50% reduction in paralysis chance from other electrical attacks, perfact accuracy and 30% chance of Protect breaking Thunder during Rain.
    Dragon: Dragon STAB; More in touch with legendary or special auras in arenas. Able to use Hyper Beam and Giga Impact without losing focus.

    Abilities:
    Shield Dust: (Innate) This pokemon has dust covering the outside of its body that prevents opponents secondary effects from taking place (eg burn from Flamethrower). It does not block direct status moves (such as Thunder Wave.)
    Static: (Innate) This pokemon’s body is surrounded by an electric field that has a 30% chance of paralyzing opponents that use contact moves on this pokemon.

    Stats: 108 / 60 / 118 / 112 / 70 / 80

    HP: 110
    Atk: Rank 2
    Def: Rank 4
    SpA: Rank 4
    SpD: Rank 3
    Spe: 80
    Size Class: 4
    Weight Class: 4
    Base Rank Total: 20

    4th Gen Level-Up Moves
    0 Whirlwind
    0 Bide
    0 Tackle
    0 Growl
    7 Dragon Rage
    11 Charge
    15 Thundershock
    19 Rain Dance
    22 Double Hit
    29 Sonicboom
    33 Tri Attack
    37 Discharge
    42 Slack Off
    50 Thrash
    59 Zap Cannon

    Egg Moves:
    DragonBreath
    Heal Bell
    Hydro Pump
    Mud-Slap
    Power Gem
    Dragon Dance
    Dragon Rush
    Shock Wave
    Magnet Rise
    Signal Beam
    Thrash
    Water Pulse

    4th Gen Tutor Moves:
    Draco Meteor
    Headbutt
    Mud-Slap
    Outrage
    Signal Beam
    Snore
    Swift
    Twister

    5th Gen Tutor Moves:
    Draco Meteor

    4th Gen TMs:
    TM02 Dragon Claw
    TM03 Water Pulse
    TM05 Roar
    TM06 Toxic
    TM07 Hail
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM13 Ice Beam
    TM14 Blizzard
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM16 Light Screen
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM21 Frustration
    TM24 Thunderbolt
    TM25 Thunder
    TM26 Earthquake
    TM27 Return
    TM32 Double Team
    TM34 Shock Wave
    TM35 Flamethrower
    TM37 Sandstorm
    TM38 Fire Blast
    TM40 Aerial Ace
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Secret Power
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM57 Charge Beam
    TM58 Endure
    TM59 Dragon Pulse
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM70 Flash
    TM73 Thunder Wave
    TM78 Captivate
    TM82 Sleep Talk
    TM83 Natural Gift
    TM90 Substitute
    TM92 Trick Room
    HM03 Surf
    HM04 Strength
    HM07 Waterfall


    Notes: The pre-vo movepools for 4th Gen are effectively shortened versions of Cyclohm's movepool. This will be the case for all of the CAP projects.

    1. 5th Generation Moves:

    Here is the list of 5th Generation moves.

    Level-up movepool:
    Are there any level-up moves that fit Cyclohm?

    5th Gen Moves currently on Cyclohm:
    Hurricane
    Weather Ball (</= 25)
    Leer (</= 25)

    TM Moves: What TMS should Cyclohm learn in addition to any currently existing ones.

    Note: Round is the only new universal TM.

    5th Gen added TMs currently on Cyclohm:
    Hone Claws
    Round
    Echoed Voice
    Incinerate
    Volt Switch
    Bulldoze
    Dragon Tail
    Wild Charge

    2. Hidden Ability

    Cyclohm's current Hidden Ability is Sheer Force, which does not match its concept of Neglected Ability (Sheer Force is not neglected in the OU metagame).

    Potential abilities:

    This is a list of abilities which fit the flavor and concept:

    Cloud Nine
    Damp
    Flare Boost
    Hustle
    Illuminate
    Infiltrator
    Lightningrod
    Marvel Scale
    Minus
    Overcoat
    Plus
    Soundproof
    White Smoke

    3. Older Generation Moves

    Are there any older moves that were missed that might be viable on Cyclohm? A check over the moves indicates that Cyclohm possesses basically every relevant STAB, so unless there is good reasoning for a move (and remember, weaker moves do have properties in ASB that can be useful in combinations), it will be unlikely that Cyclohm gets any other moves.

    Discussion Guidelines:

    Movepools are assumed to be stripped down to 4th Gen level. 5th Gen added moves are listed for convenience. If you propose an addition of a move, please provide at least two sentences with reasoning consistent with the flavor or competitive needs of the Pokemon. Do the same with abilities: The key here is reasoning. CAPs are already fairly strong, so if you can make a solid argument for an expansion (be it even something as simple as the Pokemon's theme.)
  2. Metal Bagon

    Metal Bagon

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    I personally like sheer force as an ability on Cyclohm and I think that has generated most of that CAP popularity. But for flvour reason I think these abilities should be considered as a replacement if needed:
    Flavour based:
    Cloud Nine: Ummm, look at Cyclohms sprite
    Lightning Rod: Cyclohms heads are lightning based, so this could go along with that.
    White Smoke: Smoke is cloudish kinda, so that coul fit Cyclohm.
    Concept based:
    Hustle: Boosts attack power as well, but the trade off is different.
    Marvel Scale: Not really would be benefical on PO, but in CAPASB it would work.
    Overcoat: Weather Damage can get annoying, and this ability blocks it. I think Overcoat matches the concept perfectly.

    That being said, I like sheer force, but hopefully I've helped out ability wise.
  3. deadfox081

    deadfox081

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    After reading the ASB description of Cloud Nine, it's basically perfect for Clohm.
  4. rickheg

    rickheg

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    Personally, I would add Dragon Pulse to the Level Up movepool, even if it's at a later level. Since Special Attack is always higher than Attack in this evolution line, it makes sense that it'd learn access to a good special Dragon move for it to abuse, even if it is a high-level move. I do realize that it learns Dragon Pulse as a past-gen TM, so it isn't a big deal. I would like to see this happen, though, as it allows Cyclohm to utilize Dragon Pulse in Gen 5. Barring this, I think DragonBreath should be included, for the same reasons. If these guys existed in a fifth-gen game, it'd be absurd that they not have access to a special Dragon move.

    For hidden abilities, the one that make the most sense to me is Cloud Nine. It makes sense that a pokemon that is basically a cloud would have the ability to control the weather. Plus, the ASB version boosts Cyclohm. Opposing weather abusers are denied their boosts to their attacks/stats, and Cyclohm can still reap the benefits, notably of boosted attacks (Cyclohm likes when it rains in particular).
  5. TravelLog

    TravelLog

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    Water Gun. Thanks to it's ability to lower resistance one step, I think it should be added.
  6. MK Ultra

    MK Ultra BOOGEYMAN
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    I really hope this is ironic...

    If not, the point is stuff that fits in flavour, not 'ooh Cyclohm doesn't have x and x is useful Cyclohm should have x'. While we're at it why not give it Giga Drain to help against ground types.

    While Water Gun isn't a terrible idea, you've gone about justifying it from completely the wrong standpoint.
  7. zarator

    zarator Credits to Mos-Quitoxe for the cute sprite^^
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    I support Overcoat over Sheer Force for Cyclohm.

    From a flavor-like point of view:

    It really makes little sense for a Pokémon whose design is clearly based around weather to suffer weather damage. I can't see a cloud-like Pokémon actually taking damage from Hail, for example. Whereas Sheer Force is totally random as others pointed out, and doesn't fit just as well.

    From a competitive point of view:

    Sheer Force is overpowered on this thing. Thanks to this ability, Cyclohm can boast the strongest Thunder in the game bar none, so strong that it almost matches Reshiram's Fire Blast as far as power goes (Modest Cyclohm's Sheer Force Thunder effectively hits as hard as Modest Reshiram's Fire Blast). But it doesn't end here. The full extent of the movepool which is boosted by Sheer Force is huge, and makes Nidoking look like a mediocre Sheer Force user in this sense.
    Ice Beam/Blizzard: Sheer Force Ice Beam hits as hard as STAB Dragon Pulse, but with a much wider coverage, especially when paired with Electric. Blizzard is even worse, as the boost from Sheer Force isn't reduced when hitting multiple opponents in a Doubles/Triples battle.
    Signal Beam: Laugh as much as you want, Sheer Force Signal Beam is a big slap in the face to quite a bit of Pokémon, especially because it allows Cyclohm to use different moves even in cases where you would be forced to spam only one, making you save significant amount of energy to spam Bide or heal with Slack Off.
    Thunderbolt/Thunder: I discussed them above, so I won't repeat myself here. When backed by STAB AND Sheer Force, these moves become ridiculous.
    Flamethrower/Fire Blast: Just to be sure Steels are even more fucked than they already have, Cyclohm can fry them with Sheer Force powerful Fire-type attacks. And when your Fire Blasts/Flamethrowers are as strong as Dialga's ones, who cares you can't burn.
    Hurricane: The icing on the cake. Sheer Force Hurricane is probably one of the most brutal features of Cyclohm, and the claims about him being nearly invincible in the Rain with Sheer Force Thunder, "STAB" Hydro Pump and Sheer Force Hurricane are absolutely true.

    Long story short: Sheer Force has to go. It may not make Cyclohm much less powerful than it already is, but when you consider a +2 on BP is a +3 damage on SE targets, the drop in power is significant enough to justify us taking action in this sense.



    As for any other move change, I'd oppose it quite frankly. Taunt and Torment were here when we created Cyclohm, so they're here to stay. I'm uncertain on Bide, but it falls under the same category, really. The only move we can really talk about here is Hurricane (as far as removing goes). And while I see the competitive arguments for removing it, it fits so well flavor-wise that I'd hesitate to axe it. Among other things, I am against Frost Breath on this thing because the only non Ice-type mon which even gets it is Mew (who we all know doesn't count)
  8. Terrador

    Terrador

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    Overcoat seems to be the best ability for Cyclohm to me. Cloud Nine is a bit better for flavor, I'll admit, but carrying Cloud Nine means that it's virtually impossible to win the weather war, Sheer Force or not. Seeing as Rain is one of the biggest problems with Cyclohm, I'm not a fan of buffing it yet further.

    I'm all for Gust on Cyclohm's Level-Up movepool; it doesn't bring that much to Cyclohm competitively (because let's just face it, who's going to use Bounce or Fly on Cyclohm?), but it makes sense for flavor reasons. If we're going to give a cloud Pokemon Hurricane, it makes sense to give it Gust.
  9. TravelLog

    TravelLog

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    I was going for irony. The last thing Cyclohm needs is new moves. Honestly, it's already incredibly powerful and versatile.
  10. Gerard

    Gerard

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    After reading Cloud Nine i think it's a great ability, maybe too much, Cyclohm in the rain is really terrifying, and having his fire blast doing the same damage even if it's raining while shoting 100% acc Thunders is really scary, nd so, i think Lightningrod or Overcoat are the best abilities for Cyclohm, since the first let him help his team by absorbing electric attacks (something he is already 4x ressistant) and the second helps him to avoid all forms of weather damage without making him sturdier thanks to him being susceptible to sand and hail, I'm leaning towards Overcoat becuse of cyclohm being so powerful on coverage (he only misses ghost on hitting SE) and almost all Super Powerful pokes (in game and some on ASB) hving one great ability with one not-so-much one

    Also, Hurricane is ok on Cyclohm, both flavor and competitive, he deserves to retain it since the only thing he hits SE thanks to it is Fighting types
  11. shinyskarmory

    shinyskarmory

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    I'm going to get behind three particular abilities as a replacement for Sheer Force:

    Cloud Nine: The ASB ability description fits perfectly for Cyclohm. Also, it would add utility to Cyclohm outside of killing everything.

    LightningRod: Obviously, it's a cloud with thunderbolts, so it should have Lightning Rod. Also, it wouldn't have that much of an effect on the way Cyclohm is played, which may or may not be the goal.

    Illuminate: Since repeated lighting strikes create light, I think Illuminate is an excellent ability for this CAP. It'll also give Cyclohm another tool in raids.

    On the movepool, all I can say is this: Cyclohm's movepool is far too big already. If you aren't willing to take out Ice Beam or Signal Beam, at least don't make the movepool any bigger than it already is.
  12. Tortferngatr

    Tortferngatr

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    I prefer LightningRod (even though it will mean Monohm 95% outclasses Blitzle :( ) or Overcoat. Overcoat most so.

    Cloud Nine-Meh, Zarator explained it best. Dislike on power grounds; could break Cyclohm.
    Damp-Who uses Explosion? In ASB it's rare (Combos are generally a better way to go out with a bang) and in the cartridges it's virtually nonexistent. Dislike on power grounds; neglected because in both Gen V and in ASB it's a pretty niche ability.
    Flare Boost-...lolwut. I fail to see this on Cyclohm. Dislike on flavor grounds.
    Hustle-...It's useless on Clohm that aren't mixed. I'd greenlight it. Sure.
    Illuminate-...I dislike the idea of this. +evasion on cyclohm simply changes it from a Sheer Force god to a hax god. Dislike on power grounds, could make Cyclohm the new Jirachi.
    Infiltrator-...This is actually pretty viable, although it again might break Cyclohm. I LIKE Light Screen being a reliable way to weaken Ohm's might. Dislike on power grounds; could break Cyclohm.
    Lightningrod-...Meh, sure.
    Marvel Scale-Meh, sure.
    Minus-Possible.
    Overcoat-As zarator explained, this is a good idea. My personal favorite.
    Plus-Flavorwise I'm not sure it makes sense for a rain cloud to have a positive charge. Dislike on flavor grounds.
    Soundproof-Lol. The more I think about it, though, the more I like the Perish Song immunity (I do Switch=OK for my normal battles anyway, though.) Sure.
    White Smoke-This ability has Fire-type flavor. The only two mons that get it are fire-types (Heatmor and Torkoal) who could legitimately release white smoke. I disapprove of it for the same reason I'd disagree with Ohm getting Frost Breath-it just doesn't fit flavorwise. (then again, Shield Dust is Moth Scales in Japan...Nonetheless,) Dislike on flavor grounds.
  13. Engineer Pikachu

    Engineer Pikachu Good morning, you bastards!
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    I'm also in support of giving Cyclohm and its pre-evolutions Overcoat instead of Sheer Force.

    Aside from all the reasons that have been mentioned already, Overcoat does a nice job of keeping with the concept of Cyclohm, which was Neglected Ability. Of course, every ability that has been mentioned so far is reasonably neglected with the exceptions of Sheer Force (which is obviously removed) and Marvel Scale. I don't see any of the other abilities working as well as Overcoat flavor-wise, and Overcoat is neither horrible nor excellent competitively.
  14. Dogfish44

    Dogfish44 Banned from 22 Casinos
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    Guys, try to advoid basing arguments on "What keeps to concept" and keep them on "how would a Gen 4 CAP transition into Gen 5 ASB whilst remaining balanced in ASB". I think that Water Veil is a viable ability - Near redundant with Shield Dust, Only effects Mixclohm whilst still making flavourwise sense. Ofc, Overcoat works just as well.

    As for the Frost Breath debate: I brought Frost Breath up because I see Cyclohm as a weather/cloud pokémon, and clouds are cold, as is the local weather. And on a power level, It's only purpose is being a more accurate 7 BP move when light screen is up than when blizzard is up. Otherwise, Ice Beam is better, or Blizzard is used. Just voicing why I mentioned it, that's all.
  15. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight DK! DK! Donkey Kong is here!
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    I was a little worried about how the thread would turn out, but most of the posts have done a good job explaining what they want, so kudos to all of you.

    Current inclinations toward Cyclohm:

    Level-up: Add Hurricane, Include Dragon Pulse

    Egg Movepool: Add Gust, Water Gun

    Hidden Ability: Lightningrod or Overcoat

    I recently buffed Cloud Nine because in general it didn't do much for the recipients that have it, but in its current ASB state is is about as overpowering as Sheer Force on Cyclohm. The only concern flavorwise is that when Zapdos gets Lightningrod in OU it would be quite good. In general I would prefer an ability with offensive applications because Cyclohm's other abilities are defensive.

    One move I forgot that I added was Weather Ball. I'd probably switch over to Overcoat if it gets added back in, as Cyclohm can currently generate all weathers.

    TM Moves:

    There haven't been much discussion on these. I'm more interested in Hone Claws than the others, since they are either STAB or weaker versions of moves Cyclohm already possesses. It's really the only one with extra utility given all of Cyclohm's low accuracy moves.

    Incidentally, Cyclohm doesn't learn Frost Breath, so if it was used against you, it was an illegal move.
  16. Ragnarokalex

    Ragnarokalex

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    well If you want to consider an offensive ability, maybe consider adaptability? I know it doesnt fit very well flavor wise, but Porygon-Z is the OU that uses it, so its not like its a hugely distributed ability. It keeps him a little bit offensive oriented while not giving him the raw versatile power of sheer force, plus its a pretty simple transition, so its not like people using ohm would really need to transition play style with him much, it would just cut his coverage damage down a little bit. Idk its just a thought if you want to retain an offensive ability
  17. zarator

    zarator Credits to Mos-Quitoxe for the cute sprite^^
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    Adaptability on something with perfect STABs like Cyclohm? Not going to happen I think.
  18. Terrador

    Terrador

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    Has anyone else considered Snarl on Cyclohm? I know that distribution is mostly canines, felines, and Dark-Types, but another quadrupedal Pokemon with access to Taunt and Torment has gotten it too. See: Druddigon. Cyclohm seems like a Pokemon that Snarl would fit somewhat well on flavor-wise, and it would provide a nice niche move for hindering Ghosts. Seeing as Cyclohm has three or four moves that hit them harder anyway, I don't think that it would rock the boat too much.
  19. shinyskarmory

    shinyskarmory

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    I think we shouldn't be increasing Cyclohm's movepool, we should be decreasing it. It's far too large and varied to ever be remotely balanced unless we "reward" Cyclohm with a nerf ability. The only problem with that is that Truant nerfs it to the point of uselessness, Defeatist will allow it to mostly retain its ridiculous power, and Slow Start is retarded on everything except Regigigas (and is still retarded on regigigas).
  20. Tortferngatr

    Tortferngatr

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    ...What exactly does Gust really do for Cyclohm? It's more of a harmless flavor move than anything else.

    Water Gun is certainly a problem-why give Ohm yet another way to shat on opponents-though.
  21. Gerard

    Gerard

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    Please Don't, there's no way this will end good
  22. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight DK! DK! Donkey Kong is here!
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    Assessment 2:

    I've re-analyzed Lightningrod, and it's completely beastly in multiples. If you though Cyclohm was scary with SF, imaging how it operates in a Discharge SPAM environment, where it's SpA boosts are permanent.

    Overall I think Overcoat works best in tandem with keeping Weather Ball. It allows it to use Hail and Sandstorm as offensive weathers without suffering negative consequences, so at least by some definition it can be considered offensive.

    As far as movepool, the loss of Sheer Force brings Cyclohm into line with other fairly strong Pokemon, but it won't be as overpowering as before. Adjustments to its movepool are fine. Gust's primary use would be to combine with Twister for a dragon move that hits all foes with decent power, otherwise it's just there to be there, though it does serve as a kind of transition to Hurricane. Looking over all the moves, I can't really think of anything else except maybe Water Spout and Bolt Strike I'd like to (just kidding).

    Also upon inspection there's a few Egg Moves I added (that weren't old TMs/Tutors), Dragon Dance and Dragon Rush, though Thrash can also be removed since Level-Up is easier.

    Unless anyone would like to argue otherwise, Dragon Dance is going while Dragon Rush is staying.

    Level-Up: Add Hurricane, Add Weather Ball, Include Dragon Pulse. Drop Leer (0 MC)

    Egg Moves: Add Dragon Rush, Add Gust, Include Previous Gen TMs/Tutors for in-game consistency. Drop Dragon Dance (3 MC).

    TMs: Add Hone Claws, Add Round, Add Incinerate, Add Volt Switch, Add Bulldoze (Cyclohm only), Add Dragon Tail, Add Wild Charge. Drop Echoed Voice (3 MC).

    Hidden Ability: Overcoat


    The floor is open for final discussion.
  23. Tortferngatr

    Tortferngatr

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2009
    Messages:
    2,628
    ...Think we could add DragonBreath to Monohm's levelup movepool? (heck, we could even make it level 26...) It isn't much, but in-game it would give Monohm a useful STAB before Dragon Pulse.

    Secondly, think we could say Monohm evolves into Duchlom at level 33 and into Cyclohm at level 44? It seems more consistent with Ohm's general power level and (to a lesser extent) B/W evolution habits.
  24. danmantincan

    danmantincan

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2010
    Messages:
    2,805
    Most of those changes look good to me. However, I would like Dragon Dance to stay as an Egg Move. Cyclohm is one of the many Pokemon that fall into the "Too slow to outspeed a lot of things, yet too fast to abuse Trick Room effectively" group. Many Pokemon in this group do have access to a Speed boosting move, Ability or Priority moves to get around this fairly mediocre speed, and I don't think removing it's one speed boosting move is the best thing for Cyclohm since it lacks any Priority (with the exception of Bide, Protect and Endure).
  25. Gerard

    Gerard

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2011
    Messages:
    4,392
    You Slower = TR
    You Faster = Attack

    Since there is no movepool limit I find the fact that Cyclohm needs a speed boosting move not true, he can outspeed in 2v2 anything either normaly or in TR, and a faster taunt will make both (DD and TR) useless anyway, so i don't think it's really needed, don't really know how good it would be since almost no Cyclohm uses it
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