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Discussion CAP 5th Generation Revamp: Kitsunoh

Discussion in 'Policy Center' started by Deck Knight, Sep 18, 2011.

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  1. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight Photorealistic Seagull (PSG)
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    This thread will discuss the revamping to Kitsunoh.

    The following is all the canonical data for Kitsunoh line:

    CAP 7: Kitsunoh
    Concept: Ultimate Scout (Excels at gathering information about the opponent's team)


    Kitsunoh Family Data (open)

    Nohface:

    [​IMG]
    Height: 1’4”
    Weight: 66 lbs / 30 kg
    Evolution: Nohface -> Level-Up with Curse -> Kitsunoh
    Type: Steel/Ghost
    Steel: Steel STAB; Immune to Sandstorm, highly insusceptible to toxic attacks, but can be corroded specifically by Acid and Acid Spray, can be magnetized. Superior senses in high-metal environments like construction sites or factories.
    Ghost: Ghost STAB; brief intangibility that nullifies Normal and Fighting-type attacks. Can move through walls for a brief period of time but must remain in motion. Superior senses in low light and inside dark buildings. Have no vision reduction in hazes.

    Abilities:
    Levitate: (Innate) This Pokemon naturally floats above the earth when released or easily takes flight, evading Ground moves like Earthquake, Bulldoze, and Magnitude. Other Ground moves can still hit.
    Levitate (DW): (Innate) This Pokemon naturally floats above the earth when released or easily takes flight, evading Ground moves like Earthquake, Bulldoze, and Magnitude. Other Ground moves can still hit.

    Stats: 80 / 53 / 85 / 25 / 80 / 10

    HP: 100
    Atk: Rank 2
    Def: Rank 3
    SpA: Rank 1
    SpD: Rank 3
    Spe: 10
    Size Class: 1
    Weight Class: 3
    Base Rank Total: 13

    4th Gen Level-Up Moves:
    0 Scratch
    0 Iron Defense
    6 Lick
    10 Odor Sleuth
    14 Faint Attack
    18 Shadow Sneak
    22 Curse
    27 Copycat
    31 Memento
    35 Fake Out
    40 Iron Head
    44 Revenge
    49 ShadowStrike
    55 Perish Song

    Egg Moves:
    FeatherDance
    Metal Sound
    Curse
    Flail
    Psycho Shift
    Yawn
    Meteor Mash

    4th Gen Tutor Moves:
    Endeavor
    Fury Cutter
    Headbutt
    Icy Wind
    Iron Defense
    Iron Head
    Knock Off
    Last Resort
    Magic Coat
    Ominous Wind
    Pain Split
    Role Play
    Snore
    Spite
    Super Fang
    Trick

    4th Gen TMs:
    TM05 Roar
    TM06 Toxic
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM12 Taunt
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM20 Safeguard
    TM21 Frustration
    TM27 Return
    TM28 Dig
    TM30 Shadow Ball
    TM32 Double Team
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Secret Power
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM46 Thief
    TM49 Snatch
    TM61 Will-O-Wisp
    TM63 Embargo
    TM66 Payback
    TM70 Flash
    TM77 Psych Up
    TM78 Captivate
    TM79 Dark Pulse
    TM82 Sleep Talk
    TM83 Natural Gift
    TM85 Dream Eater
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute
    TM91 Flash Cannon
    TM92 Trick Room

    Kitsunoh:

    [​IMG]
    Height: 3’7”
    Weight: 112.2 lbs / 51 kg
    Evolution: Nohface -> Level-Up with Curse -> Kitsunoh
    Type: Steel/Ghost
    Steel: Steel STAB; Immune to Sandstorm, highly insusceptible to toxic attacks, but can be corroded specifically by Acid and Acid Spray, can be magnetized. Superior senses in high-metal environments like construction sites or factories.
    Ghost: Ghost STAB; brief intangibility that nullifies Normal and Fighting-type attacks. Can move through walls for a brief period of time but must remain in motion. Superior senses in low light and inside dark buildings. Have no vision reduction in hazes.

    Abilities:
    Frisk: (Can be Activated) The Pokemon charges the opponent with the intent to knock off their item. If Frisk is successful and the Pokemon with Frisk is not holding an item, they will pick that item up.
    Limber: (Innate) This Pokemon’s body is well trained and immune to paralysis.
    Cursed Body (DW): (Innate) When this Pokemon is struck by an opponent's attack that makes contact, there is a 30% chance that attack will be disabled. Only one of the opponent's attacks can be disabled at a time due to Cursed Body.

    Stats: 80 / 103 / 85 / 55 / 80 / 110

    HP: 100
    Atk: Rank 4
    Def: Rank 3
    SpA: Rank 2
    SpD: Rank 3
    Spe: 110
    Size Class: 3
    Weight Class: 4
    Base Rank Total: 19

    4th Gen Level-Up Moves:
    0 Scratch
    0 Tail Whip
    6 Lick
    10 Odor Sleuth
    14 Faint Attack
    18 Shadow Sneak
    22 Copycat
    27 Metal Claw
    31 Memento
    35 Fake Out
    40 Shadow Claw
    44 Revenge
    49 ShadowStrike
    55 Perish Song

    Egg Moves:
    FeatherDance
    Metal Sound
    Curse
    Flail
    Psycho Shift
    Yawn
    Meteor Mash

    4th Gen Tutor Moves:
    Endeavor
    Fury Cutter
    Headbutt
    Ice Punch
    Icy Wind
    Iron Defense
    Iron Head
    Knock Off
    Last Resort
    Low Kick
    Magic Coat
    Ominous Wind
    Pain Split
    Snore
    Spite
    Sucker Punch
    Super Fang
    Superpower
    ThunderPunch
    Trick

    4th Gen TMs:
    TM05 Roar
    TM06 Toxic
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM12 Taunt
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM20 Safeguard
    TM21 Frustration
    TM23 Iron Tail
    TM26 Earthquake
    TM27 Return
    TM28 Dig
    TM30 Shadow Ball
    TM32 Double Team
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Secret Power
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM46 Thief
    TM49 Snatch
    TM54 False Swipe
    TM56 Fling
    TM61 Will-O-Wisp
    TM63 Embargo
    TM65 Shadow Claw
    TM66 Payback
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM70 Flash
    TM77 Psych Up
    TM78 Captivate
    TM79 Dark Pulse
    TM82 Sleep Talk
    TM83 Natural Gift
    TM85 Dream Eater
    TM87 Swagger
    TM89 U-turn
    TM90 Substitute
    TM91 Flash Cannon
    TM92 Trick Room
    HM01 Cut
    HM05 Defog




    Notes: The pre-vo movepools for 4th Gen are effectively shortened versions of Kitsunoh's movepool. This will be the case for all of the CAP projects.

    1. 5th Generation Moves:

    Here is the list of 5th Generation moves.

    Level-up movepool:
    Are there any level-up moves that fit Kitsunoh?

    5th Gen Moves currently on Kitsunoh:
    Hex (Egg)
    Foul Play (Egg)

    TM Moves: What TMS should Kitsunoh learn in addition to any currently existing ones.

    Note: Round is the only new universal TM.

    5th Gen (and other) added TMs currently on Kitsunoh:
    Hone Claws
    Brick Break
    Energy Ball
    Retaliate
    Gyro Ball
    Rock Slide
    Surf

    2. Hidden Ability

    Kitsunoh's current Hidden Ability is Cursed Body, which does fit its typing and is generally conducive to its abilities, disabling a move effectively forces an opponent to either switch or reveal more of their moveset. Nohface has Levitate and its premise is to use Kitsunoh's excellent defensive typing with eviolite.

    Potential abilities:

    This is a list of abilities which fit Kitsunoh's typing and give Kit's trainer more information in-game:
    Anticipation
    Battle Armor
    Clear Body
    Cursed Body
    Forewarn
    Illusion
    Insomnia
    Prankster
    Pressure
    Rattled
    Sturdy
    Weak Armor

    3. Older Generation Moves

    Are there any older moves that were missed that might be viable on Kitsunoh? A check over the moves indicates that Kitsunoh possesses basically every relevant STAB, so unless there is good reasoning for a move (and remember, weaker moves do have properties in ASB that can be useful in combinations), it will be unlikely that Kitsunoh gets any other moves.

    Discussion Guidelines:

    Movepools are assumed to be stripped down to 4th Gen level. 5th Gen added moves are listed for convenience. If you propose an addition of a move, please provide at least two sentences with reasoning consistent with the flavor or competitive needs of the Pokemon. Do the same with abilities: The key here is reasoning. CAPs are already fairly strong, so if you can make a solid argument for an expansion (be it even something as simple as the Pokemon's theme.)
  2. Terrador

    Terrador

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    I'm definitely a fan of Cursed Body on Kitsunoh; it fits the theme well and isn't too OP. That being said, Kit should be getting Volt Switch (and possibly Wild Charge), simply because not having another U-Turn on the ultimate scout seems silly imo.
  3. C$FP

    C$FP

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    It appears that Kitsunoh doesn't have Astonish, and it definitely should. Cursed Body seems fine, since although Forewarn, Illusion or Anticipate would make sense with Kitsunoh's purpose, they are unnecessary. As for the other suggested abilities, they don't make a whole lot of sense. As for moves, Kitsunoh should not be able to learn Surf imo. Also, Metal Burst should be on the list of 5th Gen moves Kitsunoh got.
  4. Galladiator

    Galladiator

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    Agreeing with Volt Switch, and would also like to suggest that Hex be made a Level-Up move rather than an egg move. My reasoning is that just about every other Ghost-type gets the move by level; moving Hex to Level-Up makes sense flavorwise.
  5. SimonSays

    SimonSays

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    From memory (it was in the Smog once), Surf's been on Kitsunoh's movepool since 4th Gen., I don't think that following canon would allow for the removal of that. If Pikachu can Surf, I don't see why not Kitsunoh.As for ability, I'm going to have to say Anticipation or Forewarn makes most sense to me, Concept-wise. Illusion is the Zoroark line's ability, so let's not invade on that.And just a little grammar check thingy - in Older Generation Moves, it starts off talking about Kitsunoh, but then starts talking about how Pyroak has every relevant STAB, so yeah.
  6. Engineer Pikachu

    Engineer Pikachu Good morning, you bastards!
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    I actually like the way Kitsunoh is right now, with a couple exceptions.

    The first thing that I would like to change is its ability; while Cursed Body fits in with the typing of Kitsunoh extremely well, I don't think it really fulfills the concept as well as abilities like Forewarn or Anticipation; this is still unnecessary, though.

    Onto moves. I think the elemental punches fit with neither Nohface nor Kitsunoh, so they should be removed. The "Room" moves that Kitsunoh doesn't currently possess, namely Wonder Room and Magic Room, make sense with Kitsunoh's concept (Kit already has Trick Room), so they should be added imo.
  7. Leethoof

    Leethoof

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    I think Pressure fits Kitsunoh's flavor very well. It is an intimidating and terrifying ghost that is "always right behind you", which fits Pressure very well.

    Cursed Body, IMO, is a nice ability that fits Kitsunoh, but I think Pressure fits it even better.

    Also, Punches should be replaced with fangs. Kitsunoh has no fists, but has super fang so apparently it can bite things.
  8. C$FP

    C$FP

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    Oh yeah, I forgot about the punches. I always thought it was odd that it got Thunder and Ice Punch but not Fire Punch... But anyway, it does already have Ice Fang and Thunder Fang, I guess that just isn't listed in this thread. So, why shouldn't it also get Fire Fang? And yeah, the punches make no sense.
  9. ToastTyrant13

    ToastTyrant13

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    Why does he have the Elemental Punches in the first place if he has no arms / fists? ¯\(ºдಠ)/¯
    I mean, Wooper and Gastly at least evolve into something with fists, but this seems like it was more of a "let's-give-him-cool-coverage" thing.


    Fangs, on the other hand, sound reasonable.
  10. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight Photorealistic Seagull (PSG)
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    If a move is there canonically, it isn't getting changed.

    We went over this in the main thread. As far as fire moves, I'm putting a kibosh on those.
  11. SimonSays

    SimonSays

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    I found the article. Problems with the computer I'm using though, so here it is:
    http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue9/cap
    I remember it being said somewhere that Kitsunoh can, in regards to the Elemental Punches, either use its paws or conjur a fist, much like Gastly would. Hopefully this all clarifies something.
  12. jas61292

    jas61292 used substitute
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    While this is in no way a rule that can't be broken, it would be good to mention that no Pokemon with only Levitate as a regular ability (such as Nohface) gets a hidden ability, and no Pokemon who's relative does not get a hidden ability gets one. By that logic, the hidden ability that makes most sense is no hidden ability at all.

    If it does get one though, Cursed Body or Pressure seems the best.

    EDIT @ Below: Heh, never knew that. Granted, the number of Pokemon with levitate with relatives who don't is fairly low. And the vast majority of those families, as in 2/3, as in Hydreigon and Duskull, have relatives with no hidden ability. As such my view still stands. But, as I said above, it is by no means a definite rule. (Though it is true that no pokemon with just Levitate as a non hidden ability gets one, so I would definitely say Nohface should not.)
  13. Tortferngatr

    Tortferngatr

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    Counterexample: Trapinch gets DQ Sheer Force. Guess what Vibrava and Flygon get.
  14. Gerard

    Gerard

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    The only change i want to propose is that Kitsunoh get Ilusion insted of Curse Cody (since Curse body sucks on him because most SE attacks he will be facing don't make contact (EQ, Fire Attacks, etc...)), his concept sucks in ASB since you are able to see your opponents team most of the time, so Ilusion would be an incredible ability to gather information about your opponents mons and to surprise him with something odd (just like he was in gen 4), prankster would be a second option but that would be pushing it too much

    Also, i think he should be able to Levitate on command since his prevo does and it follows the line were a prevo with levitate gives their evolutions the ability to do so (dusclops line)
  15. jas61292

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    I would just like to say that I, am completely opposed to Kit getting Illusion. While it's not like Zoroark is a legendary or anything, the Illusion ability is something unique to it's species that, flavor wise, does not make sense on any other Pokemon, real or CAP. I personally believe things like that are made exclusive for a reason and should stay as such.
  16. Objection

    Objection

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    The above is supported by the fact that the Zoroark line has no other abilities (DW or otherwise).
  17. ToastTyrant13

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    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
  18. Rediamond

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  19. Son_of_Shadoo

    Son_of_Shadoo

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    While I'm against Kit having Illusion, it isn't entirely against it flavour-wise - it's based off a kitsune, a creature that is famous for disguising itself. Think Ninetails in Okami. Not to mention the masks...
  20. Galladiator

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    While I do somewhat feel that Illusion should remain unique to Zoroark, I would like to point out that in the past we haven't exactly been skittish in giving formerly unique abilities to CAPs. Revenankh's Air Lock springs to mind. Plus, as has been pointed out already, it makes sense in terms of flavor.
  21. Gerard

    Gerard

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    Then i think...

    Change Cursed Body to Forewarn, it fits, it's nice to Kit's concept, and it will be an ability it can actually use (until cursed body it's made so that every attack is affected (contact or not) like in-game) since he is inmune to fighting attacks, and he can't disable EQ and most fire attacks (outside of fire punch/fang and flare blitz) and ghost/water/electric attacks, only useful in disabling some dark attacks, Forewarn at least helps him evade powerful attacks and it fits flavor wise being a tricky pokemon

    I also think as a Scouter (a pokemon ment to go in, do something useful and prepare the path for another pokemon and go out) he shout get the Magic Room and Wonder Room just like EP said

    Also, i think Beat up should be in his movepool it fits, and it's actually useful in ASB
  22. Tortferngatr

    Tortferngatr

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    Another thing about Illusion is that we wouldn't give it to Kit in a canon Gen V upgrade unless we were feeling fairly ballsy-Zoroark is held back by terrible defenses and general one-trick pony feel. Kitsunoh can take a hit or two, ISN'T really a one-trick pony, and it can even combo with Zoroark.
  23. zarator

    zarator Credits to Mos-Quitoxe for the cute sprite^^
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    "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

    To put it quite frankly, Kitsunoh is pretty much fine as it is. Since changing stuff often has an impact on those who got the Pokémon (be it positive or negative), I'd try to keep at least the relevant ones to a minimum. Giving it Astonish, or moving Hex to level up is one thing (if the latter happens, though, people with Hex Kitsunoh should get 2 MC back). Changing an ability like Cursed Body for something potentially unbalancing like Illusion is another whole one. As much as these revisions should help us patching any 5th gen flavor stuff needed (like, say, Drill Run Colossoil), I'd like people to show a bit more care before touching stuff like abilities.
  24. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

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    Why doesn't Kitsunoh have Imprison? It fits with the theme of Kit fucking around with the opponent's movepool. Kit has a great movepool of its own to back it up, and it lets him cockblock some key moves like Dig, Earthquake, Pain Split, and Knock Off that Taunt doesn't cover.
  25. Temperantia

    Temperantia

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    Woah, DA? Haven't seen you in awhile...

    Also agreeing with Imprison.
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