1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

CAP 17 CAP 6 - Final Product

Discussion in 'CAP Process Archive' started by capefeather, Nov 10, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. capefeather

    capefeather no shit
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Messages:
    2,884
    Sorry about the long wait. The last couple of weeks were... weird... and I spent a while trying to think of what to say for this Final Product thread thing. It's been a bit over four months since the TL nomination thread for this project was posted, and while the actual passing of the four-month mark is my fault for being so slow with this, it does speak to how long this one took compared to other projects. There are many factors that contributed to this, but the aspects that are relevant to competitive battling are finally finished.

    Pokemon X and Y are almost a month old now (over a month if you count the leaks that happened), so I'm not sure how much interest there will be in the playtest. I've sensed a lessening interest in CAP 6 in general, compared to past projects. To tell you the truth, I was also losing enthusiasm for CAP a while into CAP 6, so ironically, I found myself less engaged as TL than I ever was. I kind of suspect that this was partly due to the concept itself, though. In a way, every stage brought up pretty much the same discussions, because the goal was so specific.

    I'm sure that there were more things I could have done to help move the discussion along, but overall, I think the TLT did a really good job. Regardless of my motivation and priorities with respect to CAP, things would have been really difficult without them. So, kudos to the TLT members for this round: reachzero, Pwnemon, DetroitLolcat and DarkSlay. This concept threw us a very interesting and difficult dilemma that stretched the reliability of our usual heuristics on viability and threat level, and I'm sure that the playtest will answer a lot of interesting questions.

    There were a few things about this project that surprised me. I never thought I'd have much fun thinking about a late-game sweeper, mostly because I dislike late-game sweepers, yet there I was at the end of two Concept Assessment threads, making the executive decision to pursue the most extreme form of late-game sweeping. Both the typing discussion and the primary ability discussion started off with clear favourites in the beginning, which lost favour to small suggestions by the respective discussion leader. So while my explicit participation in CAP 6 was on-and-off, it was pretty cool to witness turn-arounds like these.

    Anyway, let's get down to the height and weight. I noticed that a lot of movepool submissions, including the winning submission, included the move Block to reference the large wingspans of frigatebirds. The only other fully-evolved Flying-types that have Block are Mandibuzz and Landorus. Hence, I decided to use Mandibuzz as a base. According to Wikipedia, the turkey vulture "has a wingspan of 160–183 cm (63–72 in), a length of 62–81 cm (24–32 in), and weight of 0.8 to 2.3 kg (1.8 to 5.1 lb)." In comparison, Mandibuzz has a height of 1.2 m and 39.5 kg. Moreover, according to this link (figures I'd make this really long explanation and then find a link that makes everything easier):

    Length: 35–44.9 in, 89–114 cm
    Wingspan: 85.4–88.2 in, 217–224 cm
    Weight: 35.3–67 oz, 1000–1900 g

    With the goal of keeping the ratios between average weight/height of the Pokemon and the real life analogue the same between Mandibuzz and Cawmodore, I obtained 1.7 m (5' 07") and 37.0 kg (81.6 lbs).

    So that's about it, I guess. I'm not really sure as to when I'll be available for the inaugural, though Wednesday evening (EST) might be a good bet.

    Over the summer, the original "Falcon Punch" video I linked to in Concept Assessment 1 was deleted. I thought that that was such a shame, so I went and found another version. I feel that it's an appropriate way to end this Final Product post before showing Cawmodore in its full glory.



    And now I present to you, the Create-a-Pokemon Project's (crack-free) farewell gift to Pokemon Black and White!

    Name: Cawmodore
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Typing: Steel / Flying
    Abilities: Intimidate / Volt Absorb / Big Pecks
    Stats: 50 HP / 92 Atk / 130 Def / 65 SpA / 75 SpD / 118 Spe
    Movepool:
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 24, 2014
  2. The Steam Punk

    The Steam Punk

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Messages:
    159
    Nice work and great job, everyone! Glad to be a part of it all!
  3. Integer Mova

    Integer Mova

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    255
    Great job to all who participated! I can't believe it's over already, though. Also, Cawmodore's standing height is huge.
  4. Quanyails

    Quanyails
    is an Artistis a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    660
    Well done! It was certainly intriguing to see where the concept went as the CAP went on, and I certainly enjoyed the discussion people made over Belly Drum's application to the pokemon. Granted, I felt as if Gen. VI's introduction, among other distractions, lessened the coherency of this CAP slightly, but I hope the process still allows Cawmodore to fulfill its role in the playtest or, otherwise, play a role tangent to the concept that furthers our understanding of the choices made in creating the CAP.

    Here are animated versions of Cawmodore I've worked on. I give thanks to paintseagull for helping with making the shiny's animations. :)

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Edit: Cawmodore mini-sprite: [​IMG]
    Edit 2: I noticed that the colors on the animated version are duller than the ones in the static sprites. I'm not sure how that happened. :/
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
    Hollymon, Vashimus, Agonist and 4 others like this.
  5. Pata Hikari

    Pata Hikari

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    151
    I find it mildly amusing that just as people are finishing up Cawmodore, GenVI unleashs Belly Drum Azumarill upon the world.

    Still, it's been interesting watching the process, and we'll have to see if a Belly Drum sweeper can work in GenV.
    Psylink and Todd like this.
  6. DetroitLolcat

    DetroitLolcat Maize And Blue Badge Set :)
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Messages:
    2,386
    Hooray, CAP 6's Final Product! Many thanks to capefeather for being a kick-ass TL, and let's get ready for a fun playtest!
  7. Scrake

    Scrake

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2013
    Messages:
    171
    Finally participating in a CAP was a dream come true and it was a lot of fun. I am disappointed that, myself included, people's enthusiasm for the project waned later on in the project but I'm still excited for this CAP.
  8. Birkal

    Birkal We have the technology.
    is a member of the Site Staffis an Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnus
    CAP Head Mod

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    3,815
    This was certainly a lengthy process, but that was due to so many factors. You really do place too much of the blame on yourself, capefeather. Overall, I think this project was a definite success, with stimulating conversations and strong leadership. I'm excited to see how this playtest goes. Hopefully we made Belly Drum worth using in the Overused environment!
  9. Oh no I'm not ready for the playtest time for some rushed teambuilding soon I guess!

    Well, it's been fun. I might have been absent for some of this project, but I've thoroughly enjoyed the rest of it and I can't wait to see Cawmodore in battle. I'm glad that we ended the generation with a concept that, at least in my opinion, was tricky to balance; a little ambition is usually healthy for the project. Here's to a great generation of CAPs, and hopefully more success for the project in gen VI!

    Oh, and having a competitive submission slated for the first time in five years was cool too.
  10. srk1214

    srk1214 Epke Motherf**in Zonderland
    is a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,473
    Excited for yet another playtest and the continuation of flavor elements. I'm also excited for the generation shift CAP is about to undergo and the big PRC cycle we'll be having as a result.

    There were definitely problems with Cawmodore, though I think almost all of them stemmed from uncontrollable external factors, most notably the fact that the looming (and then existing) XY was a huge distraction. I agree with Birkal that you're being too hard on yourself, cape. There may have been a poll result or two I wasn't personally thrilled with, but that's just getting down to the results and my opinions of them, not the process. The leadership and the process (read: debate) themselves were quite good. And that's all I can expect of y'all.
  11. gust_r

    gust_r

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    54
    wohooo the first CAP that has been done since i started Smogon! I hope to help on the next projects instead of just lurking and voting!
  12. Shiruba

    Shiruba

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Messages:
    1,932
    Yeah, I'd say that the reason CAP 6 wasn't as popular was simply because the timing of its creation was awful, not because of any faults in its direction or leadership. Right on the eve and birth of the next generation, people're gonna be distracted - I know I was.

    That said, this CAP is lookin' pretty good; playtesting should be interesting, too. Nice work, guys.
    Karoshi likes this.
  13. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    775
    Looking forward to the playtest; I really enjoyed CAP6 even without being able to contribute much. Even if the participation was definitely lower, I still found the discussion threads enjoyable (actually more than CAP5, to be honest) and the whole process very interesting. Even the flavor aspects, that I don't usually care about, impressed me a lot!
  14. Base Speed

    Base Speed What a load of BS!
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2012
    Messages:
    167
    A congratulations and thank you to everyone involved. Sorry my activity dropped off when X and Y were released, very impressed with what you guys have done though. Bring on the playtest!
  15. jas61292

    jas61292 used substitute
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,021
    I don't want to be any sort of kill-joy here, but every single project when we get to the final product, a lot of people just like to pat ourselves on the back and move on without really doing much analysis, and I don't want to do that myself. I know I probably have in the past, but my view on this has probably changed significantly after having been a TL myself. Anyways, while I do think that overall things seemed to work out OK, I think this project definitely had some very visible issues, beyond the obvious conflict with gen 6.

    Of these, I think one of the more obvious one is coordination of the project leadership. While I think that every single project leader did a very good job when they were posting, I feel that as much, if not more, of the delays and the problems related to drifting, repetitive discussions this project were due to an infrequency of leadership posting, rather than a lessened interest due to the new generation of Pokemon. I don't want to blame any individual or anything, since I don't think any one person is particularly at fault or anything, but I think that a lot of small things all around helped contribute to make these issues larger than they might otherwise be.

    Another thing I noticed was that I really felt that a lot of the discussions we had either we not focused enough, or were too focused. From the very beginning this contrast was apparent to me in the concept assessments. In the first concept assessment people were all over the place, shouting out various moves and various reasons. People were very fast to jump into getting their favorite moves out there, so, while a few people here and there would give an overview of what kinds of moves they thought were good, for the most part we never really had a good discussion on this, so when it came to making a decision, rather than having narrowed down the pool of moves to a certain selection that we believed would work, we were comparing various things each with a bit of support from different factions, and those moves were really too hard to compare accurately. Now I think we had a fine decision come out of it, the discussion seems to lack a real focus in getting there. However, when we moved on to the second concept assessment, we were so overly focused on Belly Drum that there was not really a ton to discuss, and instead we ended up having it start off with mostly generalized poll jumping, talking about bulk and speed and priority moves, and other things which really have no place in concept assessment. While there were certainly some great concept assessing posts (Korski's post on team roles comes to mind), the discussion on Belly Drum itself was so limited and locked down that there wasn't even anything to talk about, and everyone instead was moving on to things that shouldn't have been there. After a bit this discussion did settle down (thanks in large part to capefeather's focusing of the discussion to fast cleaner vs mid-game wallbreaker), but the start of that discussion shows the kinds of issues that I think this project suffered with throughout. A lack of focus on one thing caused by assuming too much about other things, rather than discussing the other things like we should have.

    Those issues of focus I think were caused in large part due to the concept we chose. Its the kind of concept that is very much about choosing something, adding it to a Pokemon, and making it work in OU. There is not a ton of inherent competitive discussion that it brings about, and it is on us to come up with those topics of discussion during the process itself. That does not mean such a concept is doomed to have problems like these, but it does mean we can't simply try and make a working Pokemon within the scope of the concept and get as much out of it as we could with a concepts focusing more on metagame aspects or non-tangible aspects of Pokemon. We really do have to create our own focus with a project like this, and at times I think we really did have problems with this.

    Now I don't think any of these things were major issues. Overall I think this project went pretty well, but I do want to (and encourage others to) take that step back and really analyze how things went, rather than simply congratulating ourselves and moving on. I don't think this project is necessarily a clear cut success or failure, but I don't think CAP projects really ever are. Its a lot easier to tell in retrospect (and with the playtest behind us so we have a complete perspective to work with), so I don't really want to make any sweeping judgements at this point.

    With that all said, I do still want to say "Good Job!" to everyone, and especially the leadership team. This was a tough project to work with, and a very unfortunate timing for the project. Despite that, we still managed to have some good discussions, and come out with a good looking product. Even without making judgments for how everything went so far as concept, or even project, success, I think the people and process did a good job of dealing with the problems that did come up and preventing things from getting out of hand. There are definitely successes, and so I see no reason not to be happy with what we have done this time.

    Can't wait to get this playtest underway so we can really see how accurate our judgements were.
    Piexplode likes this.
  16. Agile Turtle

    Agile Turtle

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2013
    Messages:
    107
    It's finally over. I haven't much liked the direction CAP6 was going since the beginning, but whatever. I haven't participated as much as I would've liked to in CAP6 due to school, so I really only got to vote in a few polls here and there. At least we were able to actually come up with something substantial in the end, so we have the TLT to thank for that.
  17. darkie

    darkie i didn't choose the mug lyfe
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Super Moderatoris a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Public Relations

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    6,224
  18. Ignus

    Ignus

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Messages:
    147
    I'm sad to say I was one of those to get swept up by gen 6's glory and miss the last bit of Cap 6's creation.
    Despite this, I'm relatively surprised by how well it turned out. I've actually been noticing similarities between it and gen 6 Azumarril, which is saying something considering that Azu is the strongest drummer outside of the CAP world.

    Even if a playtest doesn't go through it was worth the experience. Thanks to the TLs, Artists, and everyone involved.
  19. P2X7

    P2X7

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Messages:
    309
    Well, good job everyone, this has been pretty fun. The playtest will be interesting indeed.

    Also, just a quick question: Did we forget about the Pokedex entries/third ability discussions, or are we going to do those after the playtest?
  20. Nyktos

    Nyktos Custom Loser Title

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2008
    Messages:
    565
    Last CAP we did them during the playtest; most likely the same will happen here.
  21. LimaPro643

    LimaPro643

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Messages:
    71
    Yay! I hope Cawmodore does well!
  22. P2X7

    P2X7

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Messages:
    309
    Ah. I was only asking because some of the previous CAPs have had said information in their respective final product threads, so it seemed a bit odd to me that this one was missing them.
  23. Fuzzie

    Fuzzie

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    133
    I see Cawmodore on Smogon. I built a team with him, I got hyped up... If only "The Pokemon 'Cawmodore' does not exist' was not an issue, I would be happy. This is the first project I was really around for and I am hyped to see how playtesting comes along.
  24. Birkal

    Birkal We have the technology.
    is a member of the Site Staffis an Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnus
    CAP Head Mod

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    3,815
    The CAP6 Playtest will begin with the inaugural battle. Cawmodore will be available as soon as the playtest challenger, Yilx, is online.


    EDIT: Playtest is being conducted in this thread. Enjoy!
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
  25. superstar

    superstar

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Messages:
    319
    Can I just point out that this is literally the Vanderbilt University Pokémon?
    It's colors are Black and Gold and its name is Commodore. Oh and it has an anchor on its beak and the sports motto for the school is Anchor Down.
    Skyderp, xlxlxlxl and srk1214 like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)