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Discussion in 'CAP Process Archive' started by dirkie, Jan 8, 2009.
do you guys want me to model?
I don't understand how more powerful Grass Knot changes the fact that both of them are excellent counters to Argho. Not to mention that Zapdos's Thunderbolt will only end up doing slightly less, thanks to Zapdos' higher Special Attack. I guess the 120 BP Grass Knot helps make a 2HKO on Arghonauts that invest heavily in Special Defense (it has to be pretty heavy investment, and it doesn't change the fact that Arghonaut can't really do much to Celebi and doesn't outspeed it either), but that's about it.
In retrospect, I guess the Grass Knot BP doesn't really matter that much.
Machamp, which has a much closer spread on stats to Argho than Hariyama (defensively, at any rate), and is also a bulky Fighting type is in the 100 BP group. :P But whatever!
Hah I like Avast. Barring that, I think Keelhauled would be a god one too; If no for the fact it sounds awesome and piratey.
Alright. I've decided (this is my choice, after all!)
Weight: 333 lbs (100 BP)
Arghon is cool for preevo.
darkie you really did a fantastic job with this CAP. It definitely went the smoothest. I can't wait to try Arghonaut out.
so I = a stall team and darkie = a team of all choice users, who would win in a fight?
but seriously, wow you did a good job with pacing this. except for at the sprite polls, but thats just because it takes a long time to sprite and the rest got done so quickly.
so props to darkie
My compliments to the chef / darkie. This CAP was super fast and efficient.
It's incredible how quickly this was done. Congrats darkie!
Whether it's your decision or not, you've definitely earned the right to choose Arhg's weight/height/ability. Avast is an awesome name for it!
I'm still not sure why we need to rename Unaware. It's not really like it makes a change at all, and it's not noticeable in the logs at all.
Just keep it the same. Why make more work?
If your decision is not 100% absolutely certain. 100 power is a bit much, it's not a behemoth we created here. It's a simple squid.
Oops I forgot to mention, I'm also for leaving Unaware as it is. It's pretty pointless to change the name.
I also support leaving the Ability as Unaware. I picture this pirate getting drunk and being unaware of what's going on around him.
Either way, leaving it as Unaware is easier for people coming onto the CAP server for the first time.
Add to that that while Avast sounds cool, it doesn't have any relation to its effect. So it means stop or desist, but that doesn't relate to 'ignore stat boosts'.
billymills surely we should be going with a competitive reason for GK's BP Not just "Oh, it's only a lil squid"?
Cartoons!' sprite looks Majorly bulky so I don't think people are going to worry about the weight.
Competitively it's beneficial for GK to have a high BP since Celebi is one of its best counters so making GK stronger than Energy Ball would be useful here. We specifically excluded Ghost Bug and Dark moves from Arghonaut's movepool in order to make Psychic types solid counters so why not give Celebi all the weapons it can get against Arghonaut i say.
The only one of the top 10 who commonly runs Grass Knot is Pyroak who is largely regarded as the least effective CAP so improving his chances against Arghonaut can't hurt.
None of the other top 10 OU pokes run GK so Arghonaut's intended goal as a decentraliser wont be adversely affected if GK is higher BP.
Flavour issues should be secondary to competitive issues so since there is a competitive reason to make GK 100BP, we should not worry about the flavour aspect of weight.
Lastly thanks to darkie for keeping this CAP running smoothly and being an all round competent and considerate TL.
Yes, in my reasoning, I want Celebi to have to carry at least leech seed or psychic. The original reason was just easier to explain, and a place-holder. My original reason was never really the art.
A 100 power attack, to me seems too strong. It will have to take the rarer psychic or leech seed in order to be countered. It still remains a great counter, in that it resists both stabs, and Arghonaut gets no bug moves. But I'd still prefer Celebi to have to be somewhat specialized to counter it.
I don't know if Leech Seed is less common than Grass Knot.
Given that Celebi is a solid counter either way, and was fairly unanimously supported as a Counter in the relevant discussion thread, why not give it as much ammo as possible, so to speak.
143.6 kg (100 BP)
Edit – Why don't we have a quick poll? I made this post before I realized that I was after the party, but c'mon, darkie! :)
Oh come now, there's nothing hugely important or contentious being discussed here is there? I'm happy for darkie to have excutive decision here, no poll needed.
I'm only saying so because Tennis had a poll for Ancient Beam -> Paleo Wave
I'm backing a pre-evo for Arghonaut; Aragonrnbird, would you mind if I tried my hand at designing it?
Anyway, for its name, I suggest Calamatey. Derived from 'calamari' and 'matey', a piratey term for a crew member. It sounds less threatening that Arghonaut, while keeping with the pirate theme and not being too similar.
Avast and Ruthless both seem like good names for the ability; Unaware just doesn't sound right. There are already a few identical abilities (Pure Power/Huge Power and Clear Body/White Smoke), and of those, White Smoke is named solely for Torkoal, so I don't see a problem with renaming it.
Chiming in with a good job darkie, that was the most quick and efficient project yet. Nothing overtime, everything working great.
Though I can't say I like the product that much this time.. I think it could well really affect the metagame's centralisation, and not in the direction we want... Though its nice to have a solid Tar counter that can take on Strata. Should combo nicely with Oak defensively.
Well, even though you have statistics on your side, I've faced quite a variety of Celebis on the ladder, ranging from Leech Seed to Perish Song pseudohazers as demonstrated by "Celobi", which is gaining popularity in stall teams. Grass Knot IS Celebi's staple offensive move, capable of 2hkoing any ttar without defense to back it up, and killing Hippow and Pert with ease. Leech Seed and Psychic are not as much of staples as Grass Knot would be on a Celebi, although those two moves are very viable options. Although you have very common Sub/GK/recover/Twave Celebis, there's always the odd Perish Song/GK/Recover/Uturn variant. As you can see, it does not pack Psychic or Leech Seed. They are not as big of a staple on all of Celebi's movesets as opposed to Grass Knot. You have other sets such as scarf and specs celebi who sometimes use Leaf Storm, or the physical Celebi who runs Seed Bomb, but it's still the dominant attack move for most Celebi.
As for the counter part, you don't need to go totally overkill on Argho vs. Celebi. A counter can take anything the pokemon throws at you. Furthermore, it must be able to kill the target as well. Even with a weaker Grass Knot, you can still fuck with Argho using Celebi. Don't get me wrong, as I am for a hard hitting Grass Knot on Arghonaut so other GK users who don't get the STAB Celebi has can still dent it. However, a counter is a counter, and if the counter needs extra power to kill it's opponent, then we obviously have a problem with the counter.
Nonetheless, darkie has done a wonderful job, and I congratulate him. I look forward to playing with Arghonaut in the near future.
hmm is was thinking how about making Arghonaut's pre-evo holding a knife instead of an sword and i don't know about the hook maybe a smaller hook.
Maybe the pre-vo had maybe a dagger or a gun? Anyways, congrats on darkie for making this CAP really smooth and quick! Thanks darkie!
By "popular demand": Arghon v2.
I'm not as happy with this version, but it does have a dagger for a hand now.
EDIT: Edited the picture.
EDIT 2: Sailor Squid.
Great job Darkie, im happy with GK being 100 BP.
I like Sailor Squid, Sgt.
I would suggest making the second knife more of a rapier or a sabre, so that it eventually curves into a hook upon evolution.
Sailor Squid v2.
Oh, and please try to ignore the blatant use of Paint.
EDIT: A friend of mine might colour this.