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CAP 6 CAP 6 - Part 5 - Ability Discussion

Discussion in 'CAP Process Archive' started by darkie, Dec 6, 2008.

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  1. darkie

    darkie mfw i see alison brie
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    This thread is open for discussion of existing ingame abilities, and possible new abilities for the pokemon. New abilities should be considered with caution.

    This is our Pokémon:
    Type: Water / Fight

    For the record, the current top 10 on the CAP server are:
    1. Stratagem
    2. Revenankh
    3. Fidgit
    4. Tyranitar
    5. Zapdos
    6. Syclant
    7. Blissey
    8. Heatran
    9. Scizor
    10. Pyroak
  2. Goodbar

    Goodbar

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    I'll open up discussion by mentioning Volt Absorb, for obvious reasons I think. It's definitely not orthodox on anything without an electric type, but do we care? No guard would also be very interesting imo, even without giving it dynamic punch, it could be useful for hydro pump/cross chop at least. Or we could nerf it with Own Tempo :P, lot's of possibilities
  3. billymills

    billymills
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    Looking at the anti-status abilities:

    Limber: Counters variants of blissey and zapdos. Not a very overpowering ability, and would definitely help it out.

    Water Veil: Many waters already have this. Helps out with hax on zapdos, heatran, stratagem, and blissey. Being a fighting pokemon, i assume it will be generally physically biased (we will know by the time of the vote). This will certainly be an opportunity for an uncommon ability to see some use.

    Intimidate would also be a great idea. Seeing as it is supposed to be able to switch in and counter the top threats repeatedly. A physical or special intimidate would help out a lot.

    We should not even consider Volt Absorb. It can not be justified at all, and it just a weak way to remove a weakness.
  4. Plus

    Plus freedom of the son
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    I think that Natural Cure would be nice for this Pokemon. Things such as pyroak are able to stall very well, and eric has demonstrated how useful pyroak is with toxic and leech seed. I want this thing to avoid being crippled as much as possible, and I think that Natural Cure is the way.

    I'm seeing billy's post about anti status, and I want to combine both of those suggestions he provided (Water veil and Limber) with Natural Cure. This way, you will not fear any type of status that could cripple this thing. Furthermore, Rest+Natural Cure on things relatively bulky is quite nice, especially when a decentralizer will be able to force some things to switch (such as heatran), thus letting you get a free turn to heal up your hp nicely along with status that could go with it.
  5. haterguy

    haterguy

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    i dont know..Tinted Lens maybe?
    It will help damage on Zapdos switch ins and Fidgit

    or Iron Fist which would help it out somewhat offensivley.
  6. darkjjak

    darkjjak

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    If you're all that worried about Togekiss, then why not consider Inner Focus or Limber (for TWave variants)?
  7. Kamen Rider

    Kamen Rider

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    I would like to put Unaware up for discussion. half of CaP are known to have sets designed to take advantage of stat boosting for sweeps.

    If we give CaP6 Unware then it never has to worry about coming on what it should be checking because the pokemon has gotten too strong from boosts.This would make it an extremly reliable check compared to others.
  8. Serenity

    Serenity

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    I don't think Limber really helps for this purpose.

    I was thinking either an Intimidate, or a Special-Attack version of Intimidate, or both together. Filter might be interesting, that would get rid of it's Zapdos problems. Scrappy would be useful for Rev, since a Fighting/Water seems like it could get stopped by Rev.

    I'd personally like to see Filter or Scrappy being one of its ability, even though both are secluded to a single Pokemon (Mr. Mime and Miltank).
  9. The Business Man

    The Business Man

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    This pokemon probably need something along the lines of stopping either Status or maybe even Stat Changes. An ability that can be used to further aid this pokemon in checking the bulk of the top 10 or so pokemon.

    For things to stop Thunder Wave from Blissey & Zapdos, Will-O-Wisp from various Fire and Ghost types, and Toxic from Pyroak and a few Bulky water, etc. I was kinda thinking either Natural Cure (as someone said before) or since it's a Water type Hydration. Although Hydration would require Rain support, it's still a fairly useful ability as seen on Manaphy. Limber, Water Veil, or Guts could also be useful.

    In terms of Stat changer stoppers (Intimidate, Skymin's Seed Flare if it stays OU) I was thinking Clear Body. Although, nothing that really changes opposing pokemon's stats is in the top ten. Still a good ability though.

    Another one I thought would be awesome and really shut down some pokemon could be Mold Breaker. My personal favourite ability, hehe. :)

    EDIT: After seeing people mention Unaware, it would 100% support it if it was chosen. Check Magmortified's post below me to see why.
  10. Magmortified

    Magmortified <b>CAP 8 Playtesting Expert</b>
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    I'm supporting Natural Cure, because status can be crippling to what this Pokemon is attempting to do (i.e. if it's Physical and gets burned by Lava Plume, well...).

    I'm going to go completely off-kilter and suggest Unaware. Thinking about it, this could really be useful. Half of the Pokemon in the top ten like to stat-up. Revenankh gets dealt a heavy blow offensively and defensively without the stat boosts provided by Bulk Up, Scizor's Swords Dances, Stratagem Calm Minds, Syclant Tail Glows, Tyranitar Dragon Dances, all neutralized by Unaware. It's not necessarily crippling to these Pokemon, but it can do a lot to help tip the scales in the favor of our new Water/Fighting type.

    EDIT: Aw, man, Kamen ninja'd me with my awesome idea. :P I still support it, though.
  11. Goodbar

    Goodbar

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    I'm going to quote this and support this very much as well!
  12. Comatose811

    Comatose811

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    If we give it Earthquake, Mold Breaker could be a useful option against Stratagem and other Levitators.

    It could also help with Mountaineering Syclants.
  13. darkie

    darkie mfw i see alison brie
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    Umm, STAB Waterfall or Surf are both more effective than Earthquake on Stratagem.
  14. Comatose811

    Comatose811

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    True, I hadn't thought of that. I was thinking more for switch-ins though.
  15. Gorgoroth

    Gorgoroth

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    A fighting type that's unaware? I think that's stretching it more then volt absorb.
  16. darkie

    darkie mfw i see alison brie
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    It is possible to implement clone ability with the same effect but with a different name.

    [11:13:37] <Alper> also, for alternate unaware
    [11:14:05] <Alper> i'd like to see something that implies that our cap is very well aware that the opposing pokemon has stat boosts, but just doesn't give a shit about it
    [11:14:17] <Alper> something like "combat master" or "demoralize"

    edit: So really, don't worry about the name.
  17. Drakhun

    Drakhun

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    Unaware, please. The ability to stop stat up pokemon cold, not just the top 10 either. It still has zapdos problems, but that happens when it's water type.
  18. the_artic_one

    the_artic_one

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    Why is everyone worried so much about status? None of the top 5 really use status-inducing moves and only Blissey commonly uses them in the top 10.
  19. Kamen Rider

    Kamen Rider

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    Alternativly there are a lot of hollywood esq martial arts that fit the theme, like the enlightened Wu-Fu monk that effortless beats down opponents without even looking at them or a Drunk Master beating up others while completly plastered. However this is purely flavor and what matters 1st is mechanical apsects of Unaware.
  20. Gorgoroth

    Gorgoroth

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    Thanks for the info Darkie and Karmen I should have thought of that.
  21. ParadOxymoron

    ParadOxymoron

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    Pure Power would be the sexiest thing.
  22. Zinimi

    Zinimi

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    I do like the ideas for Unaware, but I'm actually picturing something of a Bibarel evo, so Simple would be a fun idea to work with too, assuming it only gets Charge Beam to make use of it.
    Making it like an evo may be off limits, though, so I'm also suggesting Scrappy, mainly for Rev.
  23. petrie911

    petrie911

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    I was also thinking of suggesting Volt Absorb. Lets it serve as a real check on Zapdos, which is part of the concept. From a competitive standpoint, it's something to consider.

    From a flavor standpoint, well, I'd love to see the artists try to justfiy Water/Fighting with Volt Absorb.

    Anyways, Unaware looks interesting. Scrappy would be useful for Rev, as mentioned before. Filter also helps with its weaknesses, though it probably won't like STAB tbolts anyways, and Tinted Lens lets it be less worried about switch-ins, though both of these are more general-use abilities rather than specific to higher-tiered pokemon, which would be desirable in a decentralizer.
  24. cyberzero

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    Intimidate and Unaware seem the most appealing.

    The mindset would really have to be the same - the Pokemon gets switched in a lot. The abilities are really a win-win situation, in my opinion. Intimidate lowers the attack of physical attackers like Scizor and Tyranitar, the latter being the most notable. Unaware can come in and stop, or at least prevent, Revenankh Bulk Up sweeps, Metal Sound Zapdos, Calm Mind Stratagem, the ocassional Calm Mind Blissey, Swords Dance Scizor, Tail Glow Syclant, and the very rare Howl Pyroak.

    Of course, these abilities are no direct solution and it isn't exactly decentralizing everything, as most of these sets are too uncommon for Unaware to be the answer, and the ones who suffer from Intimidate are too few. Although this is the case, I believe that these abilities are perfectly viable because we don't want to make these top 10 Pokemon completely useless, but rather allow for a healthier metagame and more alternatives than those we see everywhere.
  25. ferron

    ferron

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    defensively: unaware, limber, shed skin (only if it looks like it could have it, like a reptilian or something), natural cure. volt absorb would go to far into breaking it in my oppinion. magic guard would be awesome, but in order to get i we probably will need to give it some bad stats. thick fat would be the most hilarious overkill to any opposing water or fie type and deserves mention for only that reason.

    offensively: pure/huge power (medicham and azumaril had a baby...), no guard, reckless, iron fist, technician.

    im expecting some flaming from this next recommendation, but its something ive been playig with in my head since water was announced as its main type: stall. stall could give it access to boosted avalanche, revenge and payback, not to mention making it great for a counter-er. plus it plays well with the idea of somewhat defensive which is how many of us have voted.
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