1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

CAP 6 CAP 6 - Stat Spread Discussion / Submissions

Discussion in 'CAP Process Archive' started by darkie, Dec 6, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. darkie

    darkie mfw i see alison brie
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Super Moderatoris a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Public Relations

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    6,121
    This is our Pokémon:
    Type: Water / Fight

    For the record, the current top 10 on the CAP server are:
    1. Stratagem
    2. Revenankh
    3. Fidgit
    4. Tyranitar
    5. Zapdos
    6. Syclant
    7. Blissey
    8. Heatran
    9. Scizor
    10. Pyroak
    The final Stat Spreads submitted for the stat spread poll must conform to the numeric rating limits voted in the various bias and rating polls -- the Offensive/Defensive Balance (ODB), the Physical/Special Balance (PSB) and the overall Base Stats Rating (BSR). Any spread that does not conform to these limits will be disqualified by the TL. As the bias and rating polls unfold, the discussion in the Stat Spread Submission thread should adapt accordingly.

    Note: You MUST include Base Stat Ratings in your submissions, otherwise they will be deleted.
  2. ParadOxymoron

    ParadOxymoron

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2007
    Messages:
    403
  3. Drybones

    Drybones

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    128
    I'm thinking something similar to swampert, with less sp atk, a bit more speed and def.
    90/90/120/65/90/85 gives us a -14.7 bias to defensive, which looks to fit with how the bias poll will turn out. 90 hp because the decision of whether or not to give it 101 hp subs is a big one, and I would err on the side of saying no. 90 attack is fairly arbitrary other than because with stab water and fighting attacks CAP6 should have no problem ohkoing several of the top 10, and if it ends up with unaware it could still win against rev. 120 def, which it may need to not be 2hkod by the super powerful physical hits of the top 10. 65 sp atk, this one is up in the air. It could change to give it the ability to 2hko skarm with hydro pump, but otherwise CAP6 won't need sp attack. 90 sp def, again, might need more to take fire blasts and not get ko'd by tbolts and giga drains. 85 speed, outruns gyara, outruns the stuff it would need its powerful stabs to kill; stuff like stratagem and syclant take mach punch or aqua jet.

    Overall, the stat total of 540 is pretty conservative, if I were to add more it would be to sp def. It really depends on the movepool and ability as to whether or not its going to need more speed or what have you; if it ends up with an elec absorb rather than unaware it might need more attack to take down rev, also enough to take a chunk out of zappy with stone edge or ice punch.
  4. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight A Knight for the Aegis
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    Messages:
    7,542
    I doubt my vote for Defensive will win, but here we go:

    Defensive spread for CAP6:

    110/92/120/60/105/68.
    PSweep: 113, Rank 1: Above Average
    PTank: 179, Rank 6: Amazing
    SSweep: 80, Rank -2: Moderately Bad
    STank: 160, Rank 8: Extremely Good
    ODB: -25.3 to Defense
    PSB: 25.7 Bias to Physical

    BST: 555
    BSR: 481 (Excellent)

    Damage Calculations Vs 252 HP/0 Def Impish Nature:

    Adamant Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge:
    25-29%

    Careful Revenankh with 1 Bulk Up:
    34-41%

    Modest Specs Heatran Fire Blast
    35-43%

    Timid LO MS Zapdos Thunderbolt:
    89-105%

    For just a sampling.

    252 Atk Cross Chop/Hammer Arm on Sub-CM Stratagem:
    100-119%

    0 Atk Double Kick:
    39-47% per hit.

    I think it could work.
  5. Helios

    Helios

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2008
    Messages:
    158
    Is it just me, or does that spread resemble Pyroak with swapped attack stats, and more special defense?
  6. yoshi!

    yoshi!

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,398
    [​IMG]

    With an EV Spread 252 Hp/6 Atk/252 Def, Impish Nature:

    TTar's Adamant Life Orb Stone Edge on CAP6
    21%-25%

    Scizor's Swords Danced Adamant Tech Bullet Punch on CAP6
    17%-20%

    Modest Scarf Heatran's Fire Blast on CAP6
    30%-36%

    Zapdos' Timid LO T-Bolt on CAP6
    111%-130%

    CAP6's Cross Chop on TTar
    100%-117%

    CAP6's Waterfall on Heatran
    44-51%

    I think it works, IMO.
  7. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,675
    Since it is so early in the process, I'll start from a boring 90/90/90/90/90/80 stat spread, and work from there. Hits Pokemon moderately well with 90 offenses, and takes hits moderately well with 90/90 defenses, and is neither fast nor slow. That is my 'default stat spread' from which I'll start.
  8. sbc

    sbc

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    2,061
    [​IMG]

    115 HP / 105 Atk / 85 Def / 80 SpA / 80 SpD / 75 Spe = 540 BST


    Justification of Stat selection:

    115 HP - Can invest in either defensive stat to focus on special attackers such as Syclant and Stratagem or physical attackers such as Gyarados and Scizor

    73 Spe - Max Speed 273 outspeeds every pokemon with Choice Scarf as well as +1 DD’d Adamant Gyarados. 144 EVs outspeed Adamant Tyranitar as well as needing few EVs to reach ~246 with Jolly to outspeed bulky Celebi, Zapdos etc.

    105 Atk - Water / Fighting has good potential as an attacking combination, And helps to take down Ttar more easily by bypassing Special Defence boost, and OHKOs it with Brick Break with 0 Atk Evs since Superpower/Close Combat aren't likely to be used on a defensive set. 339 Max Atk makes CB viable.

    80 SpA - means that it can use Special Moves if need be: 0 SpA Hydro Pump vs Skarmory = 41.86% - 49.71%. Its typing walls Gyarados well also; 0 SpA HP electric vs LO Gyara = 50.60% - 60.24% 100% 2HKO. Thus can be a surprise wall breaker with LO.

    Typical EVs

    108 Atk / 252 Def / 144 Spe with Impish gives:

    371 HP / 273 Atk / 295 Def / 176 SpA / 196 SpD / 222 Spe

    Damage Calculations using generous EVs

    Timid Heatran’s Earth Power vs 0 HP / 0 SpDef = 32.08% - 37.74%

    Timid Heatran’s Earth Power vs 0 HP / 108 SpDef = 28.03% - 33.15%

    252 Atk Adamant CB Tyranitar’s Crunch vs 0 HP / 252 Def +Nature = 23.72% - 28.03% (4HKO at best and you outspeed and OHKO)

    252 Atk Adamant CB Tyranitar’s Earthquake vs 0 HP / 252 Def + Nature = 39.62% - 46.63% (Never a 2HKO even with SR)

    252 Atk Adamant CB Tyranitar’s Earthquake vs 252 HP / 252 Def + Nature = 33.87% - 39.86%

    LO 252 Atk Adamant Gyarados Earthquake vs 0 HP / 252 Def + Nature = 48.79% - 57.68%

    LO 252 Atk Adamant Gyarados Earthquake vs 252 HP / 252 Def + Nature = 41.71% - 49.31% (No Chance of 2HKO unless SR and Sandstorm)

    Adamant Salamence +1 LO Outrage vs 252 HP / 252 Def + Nature = 79.49% - 93.55% (Not OHKOed even with SR)

    Adamant 252 Atk Scizor +2 LO Superpower vs 0 HP / 252 Def+ Nature = 80.59% - 94.88% (Usually outspeed anyway)

    Adamant 252 Atk Scizor +2 LO Superpower vs 252 HP / 252 Def+ Nature = 68.89% - 81.11%

    CB Scizor Superpower vs 252 HP / 252 Def +Nature = 39.63% - 46.77% (3HKO at best)

    CB Scizor Superpower vs 0 HP / 252 Def+ Nature = 46.36% - 54.72% (3HKO)

    Timid Stratagem’s Thunderbolt vs 0 HP / 0 SpD = 64.15% - 75.47%

    Modest Choice Specs Paleo Wave vs 0 HP / 0 SpD = 35.04% - 41.24%

    LO Timid Stratagem Weather Ball in Sandstorm vs 0 HP / 0 SpD = 32.61% - 38.54%

    LO Timid Stratagem Paleo Wave vs 0 HP / 0 SpD = 27.49% - 32.61%

    Timid Syclant +2 Ice Beam vs 0 HP / 0 SpD = 46.09% - 54.18%

    Timid Syclant +2 Ice Beam vs 252 HP / 0 SpD = 39.40% - 46.31%

    You can always invest more in Special defence to help against Stratgem and Syclant.
  9. Legacy Raider

    Legacy Raider
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    1,828
    I will be coming up with a submission soon, but right now I'd like people to consider whether they think this pokemon should have a statistically high HP base. If we give it a base > 100, then it will be able to make 101 HP subs, possibly in combination with Focus Punch, and easily set up on Blissey. A high HP base also means that it will be naturally bulky, and since this thing will have to take both high powered physical attacks (from Revenankh and Tyranitar) and strong special attacks (from Stratagem and Zapdos), we want to make it as bulky as possible without giving it too high a BST.

    For example, Hariyama has 144/60/60 defenses (264 total), and it is approximately as bulky as Bronzong with 67/116/116 defenses (299 total).

    So I just want people to consider whether they think giving it something in the region of 130 HP is feasible?

    LR.
  10. jagged_angel

    jagged_angel

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    775
    Very nice stat spread Dixie. All those damage calcs are worth it, you really get an impression of how your spread performs.

    I would suggest adding a few calcs on priority attacks off your great attack stat, Aqua Jet, Mach Punch/Vac Wave and Ice Shard get alot of super effectives and are very important for pokemon like Salamence who outspeed and 2HKO.

    Does Zapdos OHKO with LO Thunderbolt?

    Edit: LR, as SkarmBlissCounter's spread shows, >100 HP is of great benefit for taking hits on both sides of the spectrum. I'd support ~130 HP but bear in mind this pokemon might get an Intimidate/Special Intimidate or other defensive Ability so bulk is important but the offense more reliant on stats as everyone is supporting defensive Abilities. So CAP6 needs good offense to check pokes. For example there's no point in surviving a boosted Outrage if you can't OHKO back.
  11. haterguy

    haterguy

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    103
    Something basic, since the vote is not done.

    Fighting usually has great Sp Def

    90/100/85/70/100/60

    something like that
  12. sbc

    sbc

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    2,061
    I may add attacking stats later. Zapdos does OHKO with LO Thunderbolt but that's meh since you need 434 HP/ 254 SpDef to even survive a Timid one alll the time.
  13. Time Mage

    Time Mage

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,007
    This is my proposal, based on SkarmBlissCounter's spread, which I find the best right now (not counting mine, that is :P):

    [​IMG]


    It is a higher BSR version of SkarmBlissCounter's, with more defensive prowess and less special attacking options. I find that CAP pokémon have the constant pressure of having to have a mixed/gimmick option with their lesser attack stat, and I think it shouldn't be always an option. In fact, I will probably lower the SpAtt to 60 or even less later.
  14. Goodbar

    Goodbar

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    5,685
    I was thinking in the same vein as you, except a tad more generous:
    100/90/90/90/90/90
    These stats allow it to take many different directions, and with the typing and role we gave our CAP, I would like to see this be the most versatile one yet. The defenses are equivalent to Bronzong's according to X-Act's applet (133 physical/special tankiness), and though the offense seems on the weaker side, it can learn STAB moves that are very powerful, including water spout (and it's fighting type helps it be less hindered by SR). I'll probably get more specific calculations later but this is my default spread for now.
  15. tennisace

    tennisace
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Twitter Head

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    6,814
    Personally, my base is going to be somewhere around 70/90/90/90/90/110. I want this thing to be fast, but not too fast. You'll see where I'm going eventually.
  16. Hyra

    Hyra
    is a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2006
    Messages:
    2,679
    130/100/90/40/90/105
    Physical Sweepiness: 154, Very Good
    Physical Tankiness: 156, Very Good
    Special Sweepiness: 67, Very Bad
    Special Tankiness: 156 Very Good
    Offense/Defense Balance: -0.6, No Bias
    Physical/Special Bias: 45.9, Extreme Bias to Physical
    Overall Rating: 503, Excellent.

    Tennis, this was the only way I could balance 105 speed with 100 Attack and still have it be biased to Defensive. I wish you great luck with your stat spread and making it fit the presumed bias.
  17. Legacy Raider

    Legacy Raider
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    1,828
    Hyra, that is almost exactly what I wanted to have in my stat spread, only i was going to give him 80 defenses. The 130 HP goes a long way to make it bulky, and I think yours might become a bit too bulky. Apart from that, your spread has my full support.
  18. Gothic Togekiss

    Gothic Togekiss
    is a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2007
    Messages:
    4,605
    Just want to point this out but this is slightly off. Using your stat spread, we get this:

    CB Scizor Superpower vs 0 HP / 252 Def+ = 46.36% - 54.72% (98.62% chance of 2HKO with SR up, 53.98% with Leftovers added.)
  19. darkie

    darkie mfw i see alison brie
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Super Moderatoris a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Public Relations

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    6,121
    Not if you count Superpower's attack drop. Even that is a 3HKO.
  20. sbc

    sbc

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    2,061
    I still think that this thing needs at least 80 SpA to stop it being useless offensively. It will be walled by Skarmory and Celebi all day with low SpA and it needs less EVs to 2HKO Gyarados with HP Electric which it walls completely without EQ. And you aren't affected if Salamence Intimidates you as you could possibly Ice Beam it.

    And there's the potential of a LO Special Attacker with the ability to OHKO Snorlax and Blissey.

    Whoops that was meant to be Max HP / Def.
  21. Legacy Raider

    Legacy Raider
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    1,828
    Around 80 SpA will let it use moves like Hyrdo Pump and Blizzard / Ice Beam to good effect as well in getting rid of Zapdos and Revenankh. If we give it balanced attacking stats, for example 105 Atk and 85 SpA, it will be able to use these high power special moves to take out dedicated physical walls.

    I don't have much experience with the CAP metagame, but aren't usually Fidgit EVed for physical defense too?

    LR.
  22. tennisace

    tennisace
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Twitter Head

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    6,814
    252 HP/4 SpA or Def/252 Spe Timid is standard.
  23. TPM

    TPM

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2008
    Messages:
    472
    Gonna start off with something very simple
    90/80/100/80/100/100
    This makes it decently good all round, while not giving it too much power in any certain area.
    Maybe a bit more HP...
  24. Gothic Togekiss

    Gothic Togekiss
    is a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2007
    Messages:
    4,605
    You do bring up a good point (especially considering it might get No Guard to further the LO attacker plan). I'll probably incorpate your mindset into a revised stat spread, hopefully before someone does a simliar spread as the one I come up with.
  25. Legacy Raider

    Legacy Raider
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    1,828
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)