CAP 6 CAP 6 - Stat Spread Discussion / Submissions

[ferron]

i personally think that an 85~90 speed would be all we need. since it conception most people have just assumed that it was gonna have a variety of priority moves, and i doubt that they will just let that idea die. 85 gives it enough speed to get by most of the (unboosted) threats, while priority will give it the back up it may need against those it can't.

 

[tennisace]

i personally think that an 85~90 speed would be all we need. since it conception most people have just assumed that it was gonna have a variety of priority moves, and i doubt that they will just let that idea die. 85 gives it enough speed to get by most of the (unboosted) threats, while priority will give it the back up it may need against those it can't.

Don't assume, it makes an ass out of (yo)u and me. This may or may not get priority moves, depending on stats/ability.

 

[ferron]

i know that, its just that i doubt people will let go of it due to how often it has been mentioned

 

[ParadOxymoron]

Parad's Stat Spread that is So Crazy, it Might Just Work​

180 HP
132 Attack
64 Defense
71 Special Attack
70 Special Defense
33 Speed

My first idea was to make a stat spread with 180 HP, 180 Attack, and 33 Speed (to outrun Snorlax). Unfortunately, 180 Attack was a bit too much to fit within the minor Physical bias bracket while still being sane, so I lowered it to 132.

I feel like we should make a Pokemon that has a reason to be different. I feel like we should make a Pokemon with stats that kick ass, and with stats like these, I think it can. Plus, we haven't made a slow Pokemon since Revenankh.

I fully intend to make this stat spread work, and to win with it. If anyone has any suggestions, feel free to comment or to PM me. :)

 

[Flosscar]

Except Ttar and Heatran have massive attack stats. While water/fighting have great high powered stabs, it can't pose as a large enough offensive threat if it gets outsped by too many things. And I can't give it any good attacking stats due to the fairly recent poll without making its defenses massive also... (PS: thanks for discussing with me :P)

Hey no problem. I don't really foresee this pokemon as something that can sweep teams. One thing to consider is that this pokemon is being made in order to counter the top threats, and is going to be mostly defensive. Since defensive sets are definitely going to be more common, attacking sets can be very viable. Consider it as a surprise factor. Many defensive pokemon can be easily transformed into offensive threats with a life orb or choice item, even if they fail to outspeed common threats. This pokemon will be causing many switches, giving time to either stat-up or hit the switch with a powerful attack. This gives it a lot of offensive power even without the threat of sweeping teams. Besides, I'm not suggesting lowering it below good choice scarf or sub salac levels. (Evilly laughs while imagining a possible bulk up sub-salac set)

 

[Goodbar]

Bulk up salac :P. Think about Suicune, it works great offensively but is still by no means overpowering, even with Calm mind and its stellar defenses. This mon has 10 more base speed than Suicune but less defenses. However we can adjust our new mons movepool to make it just right. Though it's not meant to just be a surprise factor, having offensive capabilities. It helps it scare things that could normally counter it, such as zapdos importantly, and rev to an extent possibly, while maintaining some pretty decent defenses to still be able to counter other threats.

 

[Hyra]

Stats Revised to Fight the Very Good Rating:
120/100/64/46/110/100
Physical Sweepiness: 149, Very Good
Physical Tankiness: 112, Above Average
Special Sweepiness: 73, Bad
Special Tankiness: 176, Amazing
Offense/Defense Balance: -8.9, Slight Bias to Defense
Physical/Special Bias: 14.5, Moderate Bias to Physical
Overall Rating: 419, Very Good

Well, I reduced HP/Atk/Spd by 5 points each, decreased SDef by 10, and then increased Def by 4 and SAtk by 6. Those two stats are weird to keep in line with both the Physical Bias and the Overall Rating. Besides that, it has 100 Speed and Attack and slightly better defense than before at the expense of alot of SDef. Dropping over 100 points is hard.

 

[Leman]

100/105/90/61/118/78 (Speed Last) BST: 552

X-Act's App:
Physical Sweepiness: 136 | Rank: 3 (Good)
Physical Tankiness: 133 | Rank: 3 (Good)
Special Sweepiness: 84 | Rank: -1 (Below Average)
Special Tankiness: 167 | Rank: 5 (Extremely Good)
Offensive/Defensive Balance: -11.5 (Slight Bias to Defense)
Physical/Special Balance: 13.4 (Moderate Bias to Physical)
Overall Rating: 420 (Excellent)

If Very Good wins, then I'll lower SAtk by 2 BP, and we have 418 BSR.

Calcs:
(CAP6 has 252 HP/100 Atk/48 Def/108 SDef w/Careful Holding Leftovers [If anyone wants to suggest another spread please do. These are just random numbers that looked balanced, and I know there's a better one, I'm just too lazy to think of it right now])

252 SAtk Timid Strategem's Life Orb'd Energy Ball: 38.86-45.54 (3HKO)
252 SAtk Timid Stratagem's Life Orb'd Technician'd Giga Drain or HP Fly: 43.07-50.74 (3HKO)
0 Atk Careful Revenankh's Hammer Arm: 25.99-30.66 (4-5HKO)
0 SAtk Timid Fidgit's EarthPower: 16.09-18.18 (8-9HKO lol...)
252 Atk Adamant Tyranitar's +1 Earthquake: 47.28-55.69 (2-3HKO)
252 Atk Adamant Tyranitar's +1 Stone Edge: 35.4-41.58 (3HKO)
0 SAtk Bold Zapdos' Thunderbolt:44.8-52.7 (3HKO)
252 SAtk Timid Zapdos' Life Orb'd Thunderbolt: 70.54-83.17 (2HKO)
252 SAtk Timid Syclant's Choice Spec'd Blizzard: 24.01-28.22 (5-6HKO)
252 SAtk Timid Syclant's Choice Spec'd Focus Blast: 31.93-37.62 (4HKO)
Blissey's Seismic Toss: 24.75 (5HKO Blocked by a Sub)
252 SAtk Naive Heatran's Fire Blast/Earth Power: 17.57-20.59 (8-9HKO)
0 Atk Heatran's Explosion: 83.91-98.76 (Chance to OHKO with Stealth Rocks)
252 Atk Adamant Scizor's Life Orb'd +2 Bullet Punch: 35.89-42.33 (3-4HKO)

CAP6's Cross Chop vs 4 HP/0 Def Stratagem: 110.28 Minimum (OHKO)
CAP6's Aqua Jet/Mach Punch vs 4 HP/0 Def Stratagem: 44.1-52.17 (2HKO w/SR)
CAP6's Waterfall vs 252 HP/ 120 Def Revenankh: 25.26-29.29 (5HKO)
CAP6's Waterfall vs 252 Hp/ 4 Def Fidgit: 47.21-55.85 (2HKO w/SR)
CAP6's Cross Chop vs 252 HP/ 252 Def Tyranitar: 92.08 Minimum (OHKOs almost always. Ensured with SR)
CAP6's Mach Punch vs 4 HP (Dragon Dance) Tyranitar: 54.97-64.91(2HKO)
CAP6's Stone Edge vs 252 HP/ 220 Def Bold Zapdos: 35.68-42.19 (3HKO)
CAP6's Stone Edge vs 4 HP Timid Syclant: 157.8 Minimum (OHKO)
CAP6's Cross Chop vs 4 HP Timid Syclant: 59.22-69.5 (2HKO, OHKO with SR)
CAP6's Focus Punch vs 252 Def Bold Blissey: 94.26 Minimum (OHKO with Stealth Rocks)
CAP6's Cross Chop vs 252 Def Bold Blissey: 63.17-74.47 (2HKO)
CAP6's Cross Chop vs 4 HP/ 0 Def Heatran: 73.15-86.11 (2HKO)
CAP6's Cross Chop vs 32 HP Scizor: 43.25-50.87 (3HKO, Chance to 2HKO with Stealth Rocks)
CAP6's Stone Edge vs 252 HP/ 16 Def Bold Pyroak: 31.98-37.84 (3-4HKO)

Quick note on Speed: 78 gives is enough to out speed Scarftran with 248 Spd Evs, Jolly, and a Choice Scarf, and that was basically what I was going for there.

This spread gets an advantage over 7/10 of the Pokemon on the top ten list (Stratagem, Fidgit, Tyranitar, Syclant, Heatran, Blissey Scizor), and only loses to two (Zapdos and Pyroak). If EV'd right it becomes a surefire counter to all seven of the ones that it does well against. Please suggest anything I can improve upon. (I have a lot more calcs that I did, but decided not to post)

 

[ferron]

wow, i like it leman, if only because it reminds me of a more aggressive version of my own (98/85/105/70/115/85)

 

[tennisace]

140 HP/85 Att/70 Def/81 SpA/70 SpD/109 Spe

-----------Min---Min---Max---Max+
HP - 140 --------421 --484 -------
Att - 85---185---206---269---295
Def - 70---158---176---239---262
SpA - 81--178---198---261---287
SpD - 70--158---176---239---262
Spe - 109-228---254---317---348

HP: 140

Wigglytuff? More like Wigglysuck. 140 HP may seem Excessive, but lowered defenses and balanced stats mean this thing comes very close to zero, while maintaining a very good rating. Plus, compared to other spreads, this is quite tame.

Attack: 85

Same as Quagsire, Steelix, and Poliwrath. While its nothing to write home about, it's still quite decent, coupled with it's high speed and good defenses, along with the decent special attack balances out. I'll get calcs later.

Defense/Special Defense: 70

Keeping it low here intentionally, due to the high HP. It balances it out a lot actually, but it can be played around with. Still respectable defenses if you think about it...

Special Attack: 81

Close to the attack but not quite, same as Ninetails. It works really, since this isn't supposed to be an attacker. Calcs will come eventually.

Speed: 109

Yep, 109 Speed. This right here is the most important part of the spread. Now, you may be thinking that stats not divisible by 5 are fanboyish and cheezy. However, there is a very good reason for this. Infernape is Base 108. This will completely outspeed Infernape given 232 Evs, and all Base 105s along with it. This ability comes with a price however. Even with max speed, it will NEVER be able to outspeed base 110s.

So rate away!

 

[ferron]

not bad tennis, and 36 BSR to spare.

 

[Flosscar]

Ah, finally, someone who agrees with me on the speed stat. Nice job Lemon. The only thing I would suggest would be to lower the SpDef some and raise the SpAtt to a usable level. This also allows you to lower the Overall rating below 420. Good job overall.

 

[Vividsketch]

My spread.

Similar to a few others already posted (Especially Gothic Togekiss') But a few more vital numbers in place I feel.


[size=+1]106 / 110 / 87 / 72 / 102 / 78 = 555[/size]

PS = 142 - good
PT = 134 - good
SS = 97 - average
ST = 153 - very good
O/D = -4.1 - no bias
P/S = 13.5 - moderate bias to physical

Overall Rating= 414 - Very Good

-----------Min---Min---Max---Max+
HP - 106 --------353 --416 -------
Att - 110--230---256---319---350
Def - 87---189---210---273---300
SpA - 72--162---180---243---267
SpD - 102-216---240---303---333
Spe - 78--172---192---255---280

The HP and Defense stats look odd I know, but I feel they are actually at an optimum balance for the amount of points allocated to them. With a bias to special defense of course, though the HP/DEF balance is comparable (slightly better in fact) to Swampert's, while gaining the max I could out of the HP/S.DEF balance.

110 has proven to be a fair Attack stat already from previous calculations in this thread.

Next was Speed. Around 73 seems to be the minimum speed for a reliable Scarf Set as well as out speeding a fair few vitals in the OU. But I bumped it to base 78 to out pace Heatran's base 77 in a max speed Scarf war after switching in. If the community feels that out pacing Heatran in this way is unnecessary, I'll relocate a few points in to either S.Att or Def.

Poured the rest into S.Att given us base 72. Respectably high enough to run Hydro Pumps, Ice Beams, Blizzards and Focus Blasts for sure.


Feed back?

 

[Lightning Storm]

I'm really liking Tennisace's stat spread. Especially the HP/Speed focus.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Edited to be "Very Good" instead of "Excellent".

HP: 130
Atk: 98
Def: 75
SpA: 75
SpD: 85
Spe: 87

BST: 550

-----

Ok, here are some damage calculations for this pokemon against the threats it will most likely be facing. I've used EV spreads heavily enforcing its defenses but not its HP, as with such a high base HP investment in the defenses is a lot more effective.

I'm theorising that CAP 6 will want to be faster than Adamant Tyranitar (66 EVs neutral nature), or maybe Jolly Tyranitar (neutral nature 152 EVs). This leaves it with 252 EVs to go in a defensive stat and 104 EVs (if it outruns Jolly) to go into HP.

Little tidbit of interest - with 252 Spe EVs and a +ve nature, CAP6 hits 300 speed, outrunning Adamant Salamence / Modest Zapdos by one point.

-----

CAP 6 vs Stratagem

Timid Stratagem LO Paleo Wave vs Careful 104/252 CAP6: 16.2 - 19.0%
Timid Stratagem LO Tech Ancientpower vs Careful 104/252 CAP6: 16.9 - 19.9%
Timid Stratagem LO Earth Power vs Careful 104/252 CAP6: 22.5 - 26.7%
Timid Stratagem LO Energy Ball vs Careful 104/252 CAP6: 40.3 - 47.8%
Timid Stratagem LO Tech Giga Drain vs Careful 104/252 CAP6: 45.0 - 53.4%

0 Atk Careful CAP6 Cross Chop vs 4HP Stratagem: 99.6 - 117.8%
0 SpA Sassy CAP6 Hydro Pump vs 4HP Stratagem: 89.7 - 106.5%
0 SpA Sassy CAP6 Hydro Pump vs 4HP Stratagem (in sand): 59.8 - 71.0%

-----

Basically, if EVed right, this CAP6 can switch into almost all of Stratagem's attacks and OHKO it back with Cross Chop. To make it a more reliable counter, CAP6's speed can be foregone and its HP further boosted to ensure that it is never 2HKOed by a Tech Giga Drain, even in the sand. As it is now, Stratagem must role max damage twice (3.9% chance) to 2HKO this spread with Leftovers.

-----

CAP6 vs Revenankh

(taken with the assumption that Revenankh is using 0 Atk Bulk Up set and CAP6 has Unaware)

Revenankh Hammer Arm vs Impish 104/252 CAP6: 22.7 - 26.9%
Revenankh Shadow Sneak vs Impish 104/252 CAP6: 9.4 - 11.2%

0 Atk Impish CAP6 Waterfall vs 252/120 Careful Revenankh: 21.9 - 25.8%
0 SpA Careful CAP6 Surf vs 252/136 Careful Revenankh: 16.4 - 19.5%
0 SpA Careful CAP6 Hydro Pump vs 252/136 Careful Revenankh: 20.3 - 24.2%

-----

Although these might not look too impressive by themselves, note that they do about equal damage, and if CAP6 has Unaware (if it gets it, although it is a strong contender) Revenankh's bulk ups become useless. However, CAP6 can still Bulk Up (if it gets it) in Revenankh's face, and after a Bulk Up its Waterfall is a 3HKO on Revenankh, whereas Revenankh's Hammer Arm becomes a 6HKO. This is not taking Leftovers into account on CAP6's behalf, Waterfall's 20% flinch rate or Hammer Arm's imperfect accuracy. All in all this match up is definitely in CAP6's favour if it gets Unaware.

-----

CAP6 vs Tyranitar

CB Tyranitar Stone Edge vs Impish 104/252 CAP6: 27.6 - 32.8%
CB Tyranitar Crunch vs Impish 104/252 CAP6: 22.2 - 26.2%
CB Tyranitar Earthquake vs Impish 104/252 CAP6: 37.0 - 43.8%

0 Atk Impish CAP6 Cross Chop vs 252/0 Tyranitar: 99.0 - 116.8%

-----

I think the calcs speak for themselves and demonstrate how excellent a Tyranitar counter this thing can be.

-----

CAP6 vs Syclant

I wasn't too sure what Syclant's stats were because of the revision process, so instead of using exact numbers I used accurate estimations of the power of each pokemon's attacks. Sorry if anybody wanted exact data =/.

LO Syclant Ice Beam vs Careful 104/252 CAP6: ~16%
LO Syclant Bug Buzz vs Careful 104/252 CAP6: ~15%
LO Syclant Focus Blast vs Careful 104/252 CAP6: ~27%
LO Syclant Earth Power vs Careful 104/252 CAP6: ~21%

0 Atk CAP6 Cross Chop vs 4HP Syclant: ~54%
0 Atk CAP6 Stone Edge (if) vs 4HP Syclant: 100+%
0 SpA CAP6 Hydro Pump vs 4HP Syclant: ~52%

-----

From these approximate calculations, we can see that CAP6 can take most attacks from Syclant without too much trouble, and 2HKO/OHKO back with its own respective moves.

-----

Thanks for taking the time to read through my (very long) post. If you would like any more calculations for this spread on any other pokemon, feel free to say so.

Thanks,

LR.

 

[ferron]

LR that build takes (with 104 hp/252 def) 88.99%-105.39% form an offensive LO zapados' thunderbolt (which i'm guessing might become more popular with CaP6's release) if you invest ALL YOUR REMAINING EVs INTO SpD. if you don't its takes 105.85%-125.06%.

though, on the sam note, the defensive builds only deal 66.51%-78.69% without EV investment into SpD.

honestly, i think zapados should be considered in everyones calcs

 

[Legacy Raider]

I never planned on this thing countering Zapdos. If you do calcs for most of the other spreads, they don't fare very well against Zapdos either. It's a water type - it's not meant to be countering an electric type with 125 SpA.

LR.

 

[ferron]

i wasn't trying to single you out, it was just that you were the first one that i tested to see how it would fare. and you are right, most of these builds die to single hit, which is why no one seems to be showing the calcs against zapados.

i just really want a build that would survive at least a single hit from an offensive zapados, otherwise that build might get popular merely for its ability to counter CaP6.

 

[Naxte]

I never planned on this thing countering Zapdos. If you do calcs for most of the other spreads, they don't fare very well against Zapdos either. It's a water type - it's not meant to be countering an electric type with 125 SpA.

LR.

Pretty much. This is especially true since it's limited to a slight bias to defense and most likely to a Very Good rating. It might be possible to reduce it to a guaranteed-2HKO, but even if it is that would probably mean letting Zapdos outspeed it, while CAP 6 can't really do much to it in return, so I don't really see much point in worry about Zapdos; it's pretty much a surefire counter to CAP6 at this point, sans it getting something like Volt Absorb or Shockproof.

 

[jagged_angel]

HP 110, Attack 105, Defence 90, SpA 65, SpDef 100, Speed 80

Zapdos:
- Timid Life Orb Thunderbolt (252 SpAtt EVs) vs 252 HP/0 SpDef: 93.40% - 110.38%.
- Timid Life Orb Thunderbolt (252 SpAtt EVs) vs 252 HP/252 SpDef and boosting nature: 66.51% - 78.30%.
- Bold/Calm Thunderbolt (0 SpAtt EVs) vs 252 HP/0 SpDef: 58.49% - 69.34%.

Using Time Mage's spread as an example, with the right EV Spread, Zapdos cannot OHKO.

If CAP6 gets Avalanche and it's boosted to 120BP, 339 Attack does 87.8 - 104% so CAP6 can OHKO if Zapdos has taken the slightest bit of damage.

Soo, it's important for your stat spreads to be able to survive 1 Thunderbolt from Zapdos, as Avalanche can OHKO non bulky variants if it is powered up.

We'll have none of this "CAP6 can't do much against Zapdos" bs. Of course it may not get Avalanche but if it does, Zapdos is not a counter.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

^ Do be aware that Avalanche is a negative priority moves regardless on who's going first. If Watermon took an TB to the face upon switching in, it's as good as dead. Now if you're referring to Zapdos switching into you, then you might have a chance provided you know what kind of electric bird you're dealing with as LO/Choic spec one would kill you instantly.

 

[Naxte]

Using Time Mage's spread as an example, with the right EV Spread, Zapdos cannot OHKO.

If CAP6 gets Avalanche and it's boosted to 120BP, 339 Attack does 87.8 - 104% so CAP6 can OHKO if Zapdos has taken the slightest bit of damage.

Soo, it's important for your stat spreads to be able to survive 1 Thunderbolt from Zapdos, as Avalanche can OHKO non bulky variants if it is powered up.

We'll have none of this "CAP6 can't do much against Zapdos" bs. Of course it may not get Avalanche but if it does, Zapdos is not a counter.

One problem: It can't run 252 Atk Adamant (Required for Avalanche to OHKO) and 252 HP/252 Sp. Def with a Sp. Def boosting nature (Required to survive Zapdos's Thunderbolt) at the same time. So either it doesn't have the power to OHKO Zapdos, or it does but is KO'd by Zapdos before it can do so, unless it's caught on the switch-in. Again, either way, doesn't look like it's going to be handling Zapdos that well if it manages to get in.

Of course, this is without SR factored in, but even with it, it seems to very likely be a futile endeavor to do both at once.

 

[tennisace]

Why is it necessary to outrun Heatran when the best Heatran can do is a neutral Earth Power? Its a pretty dumb number imo.

 

[Mekkah]

Allows it to take one more hit before dying, kinda -- if you're faster, you can still switch in while being 2HKOed, while if you're not, you have to take two hits before being able to attack.

 

[jagged_angel]

One problem: It can't run 252 Atk Adamant (Required for Avalanche to OHKO) and 252 HP/252 Sp. Def with a Sp. Def boosting nature (Required to survive Zapdos's Thunderbolt) at the same time. So either it doesn't have the power to OHKO Zapdos, or it does but is KO'd by Zapdos before it can do so, unless it's caught on the switch-in. Again, either way, doesn't look like it's going to be handling Zapdos that well if it manages to get in.

Of course, this is without SR factored in, but even with it, it seems to very likely be a futile endeavor to do both at once.

It can get around this with a Choice Band but I'm not trying to make out that Time Mage's spread is perfect or that CAP6 can be a counter for Zapdos. I'm simply saying that some of these stat spreads can KO Zapdos, especially if it has switched into a Waterfall or has taken SR damage. Some of these spreads can take a Timid LO Thunderbolt and survive. Some can do both.
Therefore it is something for spread submitters to consider when designing their spreads.

G_T - I know Avalanche has negative priority - i'm envisaging CAP6 checking Zapdos not outright countering it. That'd be a mean feat for a Water/Fighting to counter an Electric/Flying legendary.